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[DanL]

The current definition of artificial fly in the regs is really outdated and obsolete. Many modern patterns, materials, and tying techniques would not meet the current definition. Having enforcement going by the 'spirit of the regs' is fine and all, otherwise most of the fly guys on those waters should be getting tickets.

[skaha]

--If it is that important an issue for the few waters that are fly fishing only then get a group together and approach the ministry to get the regulation changed.
--Not all regs have to do with the fish...some are for people management.
--If enough people want some waters designated as bait fishing only or spoon fishing only or bead fishing only or fish however you want areas then go for it...instead of trying to convince people that have no authority to grant permission...get it done properly through the regulation change process...just like fly fishers that lobby for fly fishing only areas. Electric motor only areas etc.  Some of the regs have to do with the pleasure of angling.
--Maybe there should be river sections that allow left-handed casting only...I'd go there so I don't have to listen to the whining from wrong handed casters. 

[stsfisher]

I'd go there so I don't have to listen to the whining from wrong handed casters. 

This is a thing now.........wrong handed caster's?

[Knnn]

absolutely, and even don't start on about those guys who will absolutely insist on fly fishing downstream....its all quite appalling really.

[FishOn]

This is a thing now.........wrong handed caster's?

Right up there with wrong handed reelers 

[stsfisher]

Right up there with wrong handed reelers 

absolutely, and even don't start on about those guys who will absolutely insist on fly fishing downstream....its all quite appalling really.

No wonder my days on the water have been limited. Sure glad I don't have the need to fish "in the hot spot" and settle on waters less frequented by others.
 The entitlement on our bodies of water these days has gotten out of hand, especially if we are calling guys out for supposedly casting the wrong way. What does this mean really? If everyone is casting river right that the cast must come from the same side as everyone else?
Good god, help us all!!

[skaha]

--In the past...gear restrictions were in part used to "limit" the number of anglers. There were also organized regional fishing clubs, most were fly fishing clubs. These clubs worked closely with regional biologists from Fish&Wildlife of the day. The mandate of F&W used to be to provide "fishing and hunting opportunities"... this is no longer their primary mandate.
--Some regulations are carryovers from lobbying in the early days for things like "trophy lake designations".
--I would hope we don't need the pendulum to swing so far as to eliminate some waters designated as quality or trophy as intended in the older definitions.
--Most regions have significantly reduced the number of fly fishing only lakes. The hunting community has accepted area based Bag limits or limited entry through lotto or bow only etc. why can't the fishing community accept a very small portion of BC's waters that have regulations to enhance the experience of Angling by restricting the number of anglers.
--There are a number of ways to enhance some areas through restricted access...gear restrictions are just one aspect of an overall management plan...it was likely overused in the past but that does not mean it should be eliminated from the management toolbox.
--Seriously...If you think pegged beads should be allowed in areas that they are currently excluded then lobby to get a regulation change rather than lobby to get other anglers to ignore the regulation.
 

[Ry the fly guy]

Skaha, I don't have time to lobby the government to allow pegged beads. This is a fishing forum for general discussion I don't think I've done anything out of the usual here by asking a question. I've sent emails to Fish & Wildlife with no response so I figured I would ask here to see if I could get an answer. Do you also ask every spey fisher you meet to lobby to technically allow tube flies? How would allowing pegged beads suddenly increase the # of anglers overnight? As I have said I can catch fish on a traditional egg fly no problem, I literally just want to reduce mortality as much as possible, please explain what is wrong with this?

[Knnn]

No wonder my days on the water have been limited. Sure glad I don't have the need to fish "in the hot spot" and settle on waters less frequented by others.
 The entitlement on our bodies of water these days has gotten out of hand, especially if we are calling guys out for supposedly casting the wrong way. What does this mean really? If everyone is casting river right that the cast must come from the same side as everyone else?
Good god, help us all!!

Sorry STS, I thought my post was so narrow minded and stupid that the sarcasm would be obvious.

[skaha]

Skaha, I don't have time to lobby the government to allow pegged beads. This is a fishing forum for general discussion I don't think I've done anything out of the usual here by asking a question. I've sent emails to Fish & Wildlife with no response so I figured I would ask here to see if I could get an answer. Do you also ask every spey fisher you meet to lobby to technically allow tube flies? How would allowing pegged beads suddenly increase the # of anglers overnight? As I have said I can catch fish on a traditional egg fly no problem, I literally just want to reduce mortality as much as possible, please explain what is wrong with this?

--Do I ask spey casters to lobby...Yes, and they do.
--I'm not saying you can't have an opinion...I'm just explaining mine... I haven't alerted the CO's to ensure they check up on you, nor asked the administrators to delete every post that may suggest ways to skirt the law either. Just suggesting that if it is important do something about it. Don't expect someone else to do the grunt work.

--PS... I don't have anything against the use of beads...I used to distribute heavi-beads and use them...except on flyfishing only waters.
--I always encourage others to participate, as much as practicable in resources management decisions...I still believe that there should be time for fishing as well.  I don't take up every cause with religious fervor no do I expect others to act on my advice.
--Not everyone is familiar with the processes nor the history of (according to me) resources management. Of course, my views are biased by my experiences. 

[RalphH]

I don't think the definition of a fly has to be changed as I think it is broad enough to cover well over 90% of what fly anglers typically use as well as the yarn ties gear anglers use. Even at that I don't doubt any ticket for using an intruder or tube fly would get tossed in court if someone bothered to challenge it.

I also am not sold that there is anything to be gained by using a pegged bead rather than a globug or other egg pattern. My experience is that I can recall only one time when a trout was hooked well back in the throat. Even then I was able to unhook and release it without any visible bleeding or injury. Recently some former bead pegging converts have recanted saying they lose more of those fish since they are often hooked outside the mouth. Some have said pegging is unethical since fish that take the bead are often hooked outside the mouth... they are snagged. Others agree and peg the bead closer to the hook.

You have to put weight on the leader since most beads aren't heavy enough to sink well so that negates it from fly only water.

Basically who cares. If you are worried fish a yarn tie and tie it an inch or two above the hook

[stsfisher]

Sorry STS, I thought my post was so narrow minded and stupid that the sarcasm would be obvious.

Sorry Ian, I suppose I am the narrow minded and should have seen the sarcasm behind it, stupid me.

[skaha]

--Pegged bead allow for effective use of circle hook
--The regulations were applied for different reasons or a combination of reasons. In other jurisdictions, the concept of "willful take" allows for hooking outside of the mouth with a circle hook. This is for areas where the intent is to allow either selective harvest or C&R for conservation reasons...in other words the regulation is to protect the fish and allow the least amount of damage to fish intended for release.
--In some areas, the gear restriction has little to do with the fish...it is for people management, ie. reducing the number of users. There are other ways... to control numbers. Reduce road or boat access, limited entry or special tags etc.
--It is difficult to argue the effectiveness of a regulation unless the intent is known. I have argued for years (no success yet) that the management plans should be available for those who choose to read them. We would then know if the regulation is to regulate the fish or the fishers. We would also know that there are some areas where the intent is to reduce the fish population thus the intent is for anglers to keep their limit.
--Check out the experiment on Citizen Science on Anglers atlas. Where anglers record catch numbers and hrs fishing plus answer some survey questionnaires. If found effective this could lead to better management strategies, based on actual measured data rather than relying on surveys and anecdotal data.