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[Robert_G]

I want to direct this conversation to the Fraser salmon fishing because it is directly relevant to the DFO cuts

We are all surprised by the apparent apathy shown by anglers regarding the announcement of cuts to DFO’s RRU.

Dave....most of us have given up. This is a battle we have been fighting since the mid 90s and we are never going to win it.
Just today, they kicked everyone off (except the natives of course) the entire Skeena watershed (for salmon fishing) until July 14th so the natives can be 'facilitated' for their fisheries. This whole situation is getting worse and moving north too.

Source: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=197473&ID=all

Anyways...I may be apathetic towards this just as many more are, but that doesn't mean I'm not heartbroken. I grew up in Chilliwack (still live here) fishing the Fraser watershed salmon....bar fishing, drift fishing, every type of fishing on the Fraser you can do. I can remember catching 15lb northerns at Peg leg with a blue croc lure. Even catching coho at the Hope or Maria slough....big ones on all sorts of offerings. I used to catch Thompson Steelhead bar fishing downstream from the island 22 boat launch....etc..etc. Even 25 years ago, I still thought it would be part of my whole life till the day I die. In the last 5-10 years, I've realized that salmon fishing the Fraser for me is pretty much a done deal. Those days are gone and they aren't coming back...probably not even a fraction of that will ever come back. It is heartbreaking, and yes I've become apathetic....and so have a lot of other people. DFO and those in charge are not on our side...never have been and never will be.

Even the Chilliwack/Vedder has changed. In the 80s and 90s you could always have water to yourself. The coho came in and meandered through the system. They were much more receptive to your offerings. Sometimes, the coho would take 2 weeks or more from mouth to hatchery. Now they are bombarded with bouncing betties in every pocket of water that exists. They zip up the system in a matter of a couple of days....quite often tight lipped too....and the worst part is because kill fisheries are closed on the Fraser and everywhere else.....EVERYONE flocks to the Chilliwack/Vedder. It's a gong show....and of course they've brought their betties and 10 foot leaders with them. Unless the water has real colour, the fish are spooked 20 minutes after 1st light.
Salmon fishing on the Fraser watershed is over....some of us have accepted it and moved on....others stay behind and fight over the scraps.

Call it apathy or whatever you want. Its simply too much heartbreak to put my life's desire back into this....even though its what I want more than just about anything else.

[Dave]

Good post Robert_G.  I appreciate your response.

[Easywater]

I find it inconceivable that people at DFO haven't considered their own futures.

If pacific salmon disappear, there won't be much need for DFO.

[chris gadsden]

Robert_G, many of us feel the same and we at the FVSS worked so hard starting in 1984 to get the river open after it was closed for a few years for adult chinook retention. Now we have little opportunity left as you mentioned after we at one time opened from May 1 to December 31 on the Fraser River, up as far as Alexandra Bridge. My boat, the Leaf Craft has not seen water on the Fraser for 2 years now and sits lonely in a field.

As I near 74 I feel I have seen the best of it, although I hate to admit defeat and the FVSS still works for the recreational angler at it on many avenues and meetings to get some opportunity which I am sure we will when the 2017 pink run arrives. I guess one could always go to the ocean where they continue to harvest fish, some that are headed up the Fraser too.

For now I have many videos to watch of the good old days on "The Bar" like in this video we made in 1986. https://youtu.be/JkdhhARWMeY

Apologies for posting this video again as many of you have seen it before, a few may have not. It is so good to hear the old bell ring again and hear the words from Rick "Fish On, Fish On" as his words echo down Bowman Bar. For now, the bell sits silent as does my boat.

[sthdslayer]

Robert I understand your frustration but if we give up we have no chance of maintaining any fishery. Myself and many others sent many emails to DFO , provincial authorities and MP's  this last little while and the collective effort resulted in a reversal of DFO's position. If we give up then there is no hope.
Like Chris I have been involved for a long time and it is disheartening to be continually getting the short end of the stick. However in my opinion to quit or become apathetic is doing our future generations a disservice.
Government reacts to pressure and presented concerns. Someone sitting in Ottawa who doesn't know a Chinook from a Sasquatch will only look at your concerns if they are brought to their attention. Other user groups have done a better job of presenting their concerns therefore they seem to be getting a bigger piece of the pie.
We need to get more young people involved. I go to meetings and see the same old faces. Like you and Chris I'm getting tired and wonder if it's worth my time effort and anxiety.
Anyway this time we made a positive difference.
Chris I may have been there when that video was shot.

[skaha]

I find it inconceivable that people at DFO haven't considered their own futures.

If pacific salmon disappear, there won't be much need for DFO.

--the actual biologist...boots on the ground type people are very committed to the fishery its the Government and lackeys they have as managers in Ottawa  who spend more time worrying about who leeks information on poor management practices  than they do about the fishery... or seeking support for the fishery.
--It seems in the States that the recreational fisheries groups and associations are pushing the value in terms of revenue of the fishery to state and local governments...it seems money is the only thing they are willing to pay attention to.

[RalphH]

In the long run I feel in my guts it's lost & it doesn't matter what DFO cuts or re-instates after public outrage or who gets 'access' to what.

However I am glad that the school programs have been re-instated. That way our young children will see the beauty and special resource salmon are. Then when they are grown adults  & the salmon are all but gone, they will curse their parents & grandparents for having focused on the wrong things & wasted time arguing over slices of the pie.

No one in these threads ever mentions climate change.

[Dave]

No one in these threads ever mentions climate change.

Not true.  Check out some of my pro fish farm posts.

[RalphH]

Not true.  Check out some of my pro fish farm posts.

sorry Dave, but I try to avoid that entire thread and topic. 

[wildmanyeah]

In the long run I feel in my guts it's lost & it doesn't matter what DFO cuts or re-instates after public outrage or who gets 'access' to what.

However I am glad that the school programs have been re-instated. That way our young children will see the beauty and special resource salmon are. Then when they are grown adults  & the salmon are all but gone, they will curse their parents & grandparents for having focused on the wrong things & wasted time arguing over slices of the pie.

No one in these threads ever mentions climate change.

Climate change and the warm blob off the coast is mention in almost every salmon report put out, so I am sure it being mention in these threads. Tuna fishing on WCVI has been closer and closer and some people  even run into mackerel and tuna super close in. You are right tho these threads just turn into everyone complaining there's not enough fish. Same old story.  Human population and climate change is without a doubt a huge factor. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2011000/chap/geo/geo02-eng.htm .  According to my commercial fishing friends the advent of sonar in commercial fishing caused everything from salmon and bait to be fished out locally. Management measures slow to act to changing climate and overfishing same story everywhere in the world. Politics is huge certain interest groups always do better under liberals or conservatives. 

[RalphH]

Basically they adopted the term Climate Change because while the average temperature will rise that will not be the most dramatic change. Rising sea levels and more extreme climate events will be the most noticeable change over the next 50 to 100 years.

Basically I do believe that most of the climate change is due to human introduced green house gases. The evidence for this is actually very good and includes chemical analysis of CO2 in the atmosphere that shows it is caused by burning hydrocarbons - primarily coal and oil. Paleo CO2 does not have that chemical signature.

Warming temperatures in the geologic records are always associated with increase CO2 and often releases of sequestered methane - mostly from the deep ocean. Tectonic changes take place over immense time scales and the layout of the earth land masses haven't changed at all in the last 100,000 years + so blaming the change on that doesn't make any sense and the fact is the presence of a large land mass at the south pole would tend to cool the earth and not warm it. Likewise the way North America, Asia, Scandinavia, Greenland and the Arctic Islands isolate the Arctic Ocean from from warmer ocean currents which explains why the last 2 millions years have been associated with extensive glacial ice and ice fields.

I agree likely change is no longer avoidable and we will have to live with it. Reducing CO2 emissions can reduce the impact somewhat but the effects will go well into the next century at a minimum. Life on the planet will get harder for many if not most of it's billions of inhabitants

[Robert_G]

Love your barfishing videos Chris. Brings back awesome memories. In the 80s and 90s we had open barfishing right into late fall.....and it was awesome.
The northerns were pushing 20 lbs and they fought like trains and they had good numbers most seasons.....and your chances of a big Thompson steelhead were really good. I caught and released many on the bar rod and some by casting lures too.
The red spring jacks were as plentiful as you could imagine. Back then you could limit out on red jacks easy in a couple of hours. I can remember spending day after day at Hendersons bar off Old Orchid...and sometimes a little further down at Bowmans........awesome times.....your videos and others like it are all we have now.

[RalphH]

.

I did NOT HARVEST over billion fish from the ocean last year.

I did NOT DRAG GILL NETS or SEINES up and down the Fraser.

I Bought a TIDAL FISHING LICENCE and PAY TAXES (DFO Funding) / +  FRESH WATER LICENCE

- Boat
- equipment
- Gas
- Pay Parking / Launch Fees
- Restaurants / Accommodations
 

That's about all i care about. (Concerning ->Salmon Stocks)

Short Sighted?  Selfish? .....  no.

I care about my ability to Recreational Fish.
I believe i have "Some Control" over that aspect.

Hope my licence enables me to actually USE IT this year!
That's just my honest opinion.

___________________>  Maybe i should "JUMP ON THIS BANDWAGON"?:

It's all KINDER MORGAN's FAULT! (Sarcasm)

Let's all follow the little birdie of distraction...... lol

The two Suzukis: There’s Saint Suzuki, the one you see on CBC, and Secret Suzuki, the capitalist millionaire


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/11/the-two-suzukis-theres-saint-suzuki-the-one-you-see-on-cbc-and-secret-suzuki-the-capitalist-millionaire

It's been awhile since I've seen someone provide a link to an Ezra Levant opinion piece.


...I rest my case LOL!

[wildmanyeah]

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/commercial/albionchinook-quinnat-eng.html

Subject: FN0549-Fraser River Spring 5(2) and Summer 5(2) Chinook - Final In-season Abundance Update June 16, 2017

In 2017, the Department has identified concerns associated with expected poor
returns of Fraser River Spring 5-2 and Summer 5-2 chinook.  Management of these
stocks is based on an in-season assessment of returns using the cumulative
catch per unit effort (CPUE) of chinook caught at the Albion Test Fishery.  A
three zone management approach is used to identify management actions.

The Department initiated the 2017 season with management actions based on the
lowest management zone (zone 1) given uncertainties in expected marine survival
rate, and recent years of poor returns for these stock aggregates.

The model used to predict the return of Fraser River Spring 5-2 and Summer 5-2
chinook uses data from the standard chinook net fished by the Albion Test
fishery and does not incorporate catch from the multi-panel net (which is
currently fished on alternate days).  The standard chinook net is an 8 inch
(approx. 20 cm) mesh.  Catch and effort data are cumulated by week, starting
the first full week in May, to provide the input to the model.

In 2017, the Albion chinook test fishery began operating on April 23.  The
total catch in the standard net for the period of this update (May 7 to June
16) was three (3) chinook.  Based on this input, the current predicted return
to the mouth of the Fraser for the Fraser River Spring 5-2 and Summer 5-2
chinook aggregates ranges from 27,000 to 68,000 chinook (median value of
42,530).  This predicted return is consistent with management zone 1 where
returns to the Fraser River are below 45 thousand chinook and conservation
concerns for Fraser chinook are the primary management consideration.

This is the final in-season update for 2017.

FOR MORE INFORMATION: 
Raquel Roizman (604) 666-3935
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0549
Sent June 16, 2017 at 1531

[RalphH]

Levant and Suzuki are really just the same sort of people but at ends of the opposite poles. My opinion of Levant or yours of Suzuki are irrelevant. You're welcome to your own opinions but they won't get you exclusively access to anything. Neither will buying a boat tackle license etc.

Its' been along time since the spring chinook run has been open to angling and there's isn't much 1st nations harvest of it either. The summer run seems headed in the same direction though late summer and fall seem ok for the foreseeable future.