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Author Topic: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again  (Read 24571 times)

chris gadsden

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Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« on: August 23, 2016, 07:09:37 PM »

Filmed this today, always have concerns about this as it is not good for any river system.

https://youtu.be/lMjJlDym2NQ

dobrolub

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 07:14:11 PM »

Where about is this happening? Do they have a permit?
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chris gadsden

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chris gadsden

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 07:24:27 PM »

Where about is this happening? Do they have a permit?
Just above the BC Electric Bridge, by the new parking area. They closed off the road we drove on until recently citing one of the reasons was people driving on the gravel bar but they do not mind these big trucks doing so. ???

They do it every 2 years and would have the blessing of the province, it is all about the money they can get for the gravel at the expense of fish habitat, please read my link above.

santefe

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 09:00:39 PM »

Isn't this what they call 'flood control measures'?
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chris gadsden

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 02:33:52 AM »

Isn't this what they call 'flood control measures'?
That is what they call it the same on the Fraser River but it is the gravel they want One only has to look what gravel mining did to the Coquitlam River in the past.
You may wish  to take the rime to read this on the subject.http://ibis.geog.ubc.ca/fraserriver/reports/The_problem_with_the_Fraser_River_MChurch.pdf

danielk

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2016, 05:45:35 PM »

Brutal.    But.   Maybe you should grab a gold pan and a shovel and poke around in that hole they made.  Yes I know so wrong. I'm sorry  :-X
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Noahs Arc

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2016, 06:04:12 PM »

Ah Yes but that beautiful Chilliwack 3/8"s sure makes nice exposed agg driveways!
Just sayin! They're not making round rock anymore these days if you catch my drift. Can't make exposed driveway with fractured rock and even if you could the people that live on the hills would complain then.

Not saying this is right or wrong what's going on here as I don't  have experience in this type of extraction. I do know that I've worked most of my life in the Agg business and everybody complains about pits and mining in general then drives home on roads made with aggregate protected by concrete barriers made with agg then into their house made on a foundation with aggregate. It sure didn't grow there.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2016, 08:46:50 PM »

Ah Yes but that beautiful Chilliwack 3/8"s sure makes nice exposed agg driveways!
Just sayin! They're not making round rock anymore these days if you catch my drift. Can't make exposed driveway with fractured rock and even if you could the people that live on the hills would complain then.

Not saying this is right or wrong what's going on here as I don't  have experience in this type of extraction. I do know that I've worked most of my life in the Agg business and everybody complains about pits and mining in general then drives home on roads made with aggregate protected by concrete barriers made with agg then into their house made on a foundation with aggregate. It sure didn't grow there.
Taking any material out of a river is always damaging, other places to take it with out so not to interfere with a river system.

https://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/Environment/gravel%20removal%20from%20rivers.pdf

redtide

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 02:08:10 PM »

i saw it today on my walk. Seems like a necessary move. the gravel has accumulated quite a bit to one side. It was starting to divert the river towards the south side. It is actually starting to wear away against the rotary trail bank and during high water has washed away trees along its edges. So yes the city should remove that section of gravel to prevent soil/bank erosion on the other side. Their is a benefit as a large pool has been created as holding water for migrating salmon on their way upstream away from the main current. I hope they dredge the channel as well so the fish have some deep pools to hide in and becomes less of a slaughter fest for bottom bouncers.
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Noahs Arc

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2016, 05:55:31 PM »

Chris do you know the tonnage that was planned on being extracted?
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Rodney

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 12:11:57 AM »

One of the main concerns in the lower section of the Chilliwack/Vedder River is the undercutting of dykes by water pushing directly into it, which can potentially lead to damages and collapses. The pits are not directly used to prevent flooding, but rather to divert or ease the flow where water is hitting straight into the dyke.

chris gadsden

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 09:15:09 PM »

Chris do you know the tonnage that was planned on being extracted?
Sorry I donot know but I know the mining can cause more damage than good good as the article I posted above tells us. https://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/Environment/gravel%20removal%20from%20rivers.pdf

TNAngler

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2016, 10:01:32 AM »

I would have to disagree that removing gravel is always a bad thing.  If it is done responsibly and correctly, it can actually benefit the river.  The Nooksack is a good example.  When I was growing up, there were two or three gravel companies that would take rock off specific bars every year.  They wouldn't do anything inside the river, just the stuff above the water.  It was only specific bars that constantly were built up during high water times.  They have been forced to stop for a number of years.

Growing up, the lower river had a good flow to it and there were plenty of deep holes for fish to hold.  When they stopped removing the rock, the river deposited what it wanted to on the bar but then started just filling the main channel too.  Currently, the lower probably 10 miles of the river has very little for channel, very little current, and no holes for fish to hold.  It used to be up in the upper river you would never find fish that had lice on them.  You do now because they don't hold in that lower section.  They are swimming mostly through a pond and quickly without stopping because there is no place to stop.

With the dikes, the river can't change it's location to find less resistance but there isn't enough flow to clear out all that is piled in there.

The key point is doing only specific locations.  In this case, there were probably 4 bars in the lower half of the river.  The flow of the river wasn't affected because it wasn't enough removed to make it difficult for fish to move upstream but it was enough to keep the lower river clear enough that it could clean itself out.  You may disagree but I've seen enough myself to know the effects of having the rivers diked, creating an artificial system for the river and then not dealing with the consequences of that artificial system.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Gravel Mining The Vedder is on Again
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2016, 09:48:48 PM »

One of the main concerns in the lower section of the Chilliwack/Vedder River is the undercutting of dykes by water pushing directly into it, which can potentially lead to damages and collapses. The pits are not directly used to prevent flooding, but rather to divert or ease the flow where water is hitting straight into the dyke.
Some clarification to what someone may have told you on this issue that I was able to obtain today.

"The issue is that the dykes were built too close together in the floodplain (and maybe too low) and the sediment (gravel) recruitment is great enough in the stream that when it gets out of the Chilliwack River, and through to the low-gradient parts of the Vedder River, it deposits.

 

If enough gravel settles down in critical parts between the diking system, which should have been spread out further and provided more floodway capacity, and maybe built higher, it pushes up the water profile to the point that it will overtop the dikes for big floods.

 

What really makes it complicated is the railroad bridge is at a really awkward angle so the river has to make the big dog-leg above the bridge and causes the stream to backwater and many of the coarse sediments drop out at this really vulnerable part of the river.

 

The amounts and locations are largely determined by measured cross sections (the change in topography, or river bed height, since the last removal), and hydraulic models (how high the stream will be for a given flow), and flood-return models (how often a big flood will happen of a certain magnitude).  These are all used to calculate how high a particular design-flood will be based on a probability of how often it returns.  In the old days they used a 1:200 year return period and the estimated water surface couldn’t exceed 0.6m below the top-of-dike. 

 

Historically there was quite a bit of my smelly socks surrounding this process, but I think they cleaned some of it up when a few others started to really question what was going on.  In fact, the word was by the old Water Management Branch engineers that there was quite a bit of collusion in the early days when it came to bidding for the gravel.  I think that Tara (Chilliwack’s engineer) keeps a pretty tight ship on the whole process.

 

The gravel removal appears to be effective (?) in the part of the river between Yarrow and Peach Road.  Down in the Canal, the reason it is so high is because of Fraser River backwatering in the spring time, and largely has little to do with the fall/winter floods that threaten Yarrow and the Vedder Crossing area.  So there is little reason to take out gravel from the Canal as it is basically a stillwater issue, particularly from below the KWR bridge, and related to the Fraser River backwatering.

 

One of the things about the Canal is that it has recruited some very nice gravel for pink spawning over the years since I started fishing there.  Also, some really nice pool riffles, which are good for angling as well as probably some good rearing habitat.  Additions of some constructed log jams would make it fabulous habitat, but the diking authorities freak out over that stuff.  The Province’s steelhead biologist, Ron Ptolemy, once told me that some of the highest densities of juvenile steelhead parr were sampled rearing in the Canal.

 

If there is an instance of the river heading for the dike, and gravel is taken out to reduce erosion, I would be surprised.  It may happen, on occasion, but it would be the first time I saw it.  Again, I have been away from the issue for over 10 years, so maybe there are shenanigans going on that I don’t know about, but on the whole, the above description is how I remember it."