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[NexusGoo]

Hey all,

Was out yesterday and managed to land a small chrome spring jack, was thinking it looked a bit different than any other I had hooked before. Low and behold when I went to clean it, I was met with the 2 most perfect skeins. Now I've never seen a female jack chinook before, any one else?

[milo]

What you caught was not a jack, it was a Jill. Although rare, they do exist. I caught one some 8-9 years ago and was asking myself the same question. At the time, this was the best response I could find:

C&P from another forum:

A 'jack' salmon is a sexually mature male salmon that returns to spawn one year earlier than his 'normal' year class. A 'jill' is the female equivalent and although not as common as jacks, they do exist. Jacks and Jills are obviously a smaller size than those salmon living out their entire life cycles since they spend one less year feeding in the ocean. The size difference is most notable with coho as returning jacks/jills more resemble small trout than salmon. As we know, cohos put on the bulk of their size in the last 4-5 months of their normal life cycle. Cohos or bluebacks are typically in the 2-4 lb range in May but will reach upwards of 20 pounds by Sep/Oct.

Jacks and Jills occur in all salmon species with the exception of Pinks. Its not entirely known why they don't exist in Pink stocks other than the fact that they already have a very short life cycle (2 years). Jacks/Jills are very common in Sockeye. One of the reasons why we don't really notice them is even an early returning 3 year old fish can easily be 3-5 lbs. The next time you catch a sockeye that seems a bit on the small side, it could very well be a jack/jill.

Early returning Chum salmon (3 year olds) are normally not called Jacks/Jills as 3 year olds make up a fairly significant proportion of normal 4 and 5 year old returns. They could be called jacks/jills though if our definition of such is 'a fish returning one year earlier than the majority of its cohorts'.

The purpose of a jack/jill salmon is, like its big brothers and sisters, to propogate. Although Jills will find ready 'dance partners' with mature males, Jacks aren't so lucky. Jacks are usually chased off by larger males and either prevented from spawning totally or, they find a way to scoot in on the action and deposit their cargo (adding to the genetic mix). In fish stocks that might be heavily exploited commercially, Jack salmon might be the difference between a successful spawning season and an unsuccessful one (if too many mature males are harvested).

Finally, Jacks/Jills do not 'begat' more Jacks and Jills in the future, just because they spawn. Early sexual maturity in salmon is more an act of randomness than anything else. So the next time you catch a Jack, release it with respect and let the lil guy do his thing.

[RalphH]

I personally would doubt a jill is the a sexually precoscious female in the same sense as a jack without some technical means of measuring the fishes age (ie a scale reading). More than likely it is a stunted female. 'Jill' coho does I caught came from specific samll streams where the coho were invariably smaller than local streams. FWIW I've also come across anglers who refer to all small salmon (ie cohoes of 3 to 5lbs) 'jacks'.

[NexusGoo]

Thanks for the clarification guys, guess it was as rare as I was thinking

[96XJ]

I caught a hatchery coho Jill last weekend , although a smaller stream it was mixed with much larger coho , springs and chum

[Dave]

2 year old sexually mature female coho are rare but are often seen on the C-V; 3 year old sexually mature female Cultus Lake sockeye are common and are regularly used in the hatchery broodstock program. It makes sense a few chinooks would exhibit this unique phenomenon as well.

[RalphH]

How can it be rare but commonly seen? It's a contradiction.

Any search on Google and other references that are compiled by fisheries biologists don't mention "jill's". Milo's reference is about the only one via google that mentions them at all and at that it's just assertion.

Not saying anyone is lying just some solid evidence and supporting facts.

[96XJ]

Who are you saying is lying RalphH ?

Just wondering.....

[Sandman]

How can it be rare but commonly seen? It's a contradiction.

Any search on Google and other references that are compiled by fisheries biologists don't mention "jill's". Milo's reference is about the only one via google that mentions them at all and at that it's just assertion.

Not saying anyone is lying just some solid evidence and supporting facts.

Interesting.  Two studies that identify jill sockeye are mentioned in Pacific Salmon Life Histories by Groot and Margolis of the DFO Biological Sciences branch.  Killick and Clemens identified jack and jill sockeye and their relative abundance (Jills comprising just 4% of the combined samples) in their 1963 study of Fraser River runs 1915-1960, and in their 1962 study, Major and Craddock found Jills were nearly as abundant as jack sockeye in the OK River in some years.

[Dave]

How can it be rare but commonly seen? It's a contradiction.

I said coho jills were rare and Cultus sockeye jills were common.  Where's the contradiction?

[milo]

I said coho jills were rare and Cultus sockeye jills were common.  Where's the contradiction?

OK, hold it. You said, and I quote: "2 year old sexually mature female coho are rare but are often seen on the C-V"
From this statement it can be inferred that coho jills are generally a rare occurrence, but not so rare in the C-V. It can also be understood as a contradiction because if something is rare, it can't be often seen.
Your next sentence is clear, but RalphH couldn't/didn't want to contextualize it: "3 year old sexually mature female Cultus Lake sockeye are common and are regularly used in the hatchery broodstock program."

I know exactly what you wanted to say, and I didn't see it as a contradiction. RalphH, on the other hand, desperately tries to discredit what you say whenever an opportunity presents itself. I don't know where the bad blood comes from; nor do I need to know.

Mine is the biggest anyway. 
 

[banx]

I know exactly what you wanted to say, and I didn't see it as a contradiction. RalphH, on the other hand, desperately tries to discredit what you say whenever an opportunity presents itself. I don't know where the bad blood comes from; nor do I need to know.

back in 1977 dave came to a run ralph was already working, ended up pulling two beauty steelhead from behind him. wild of course.

[Fish or cut bait.]

Who really cares?
Jacks are males, females are Jill's.
Just because one sex of prematurely reproductive salmon, be it: Sockeye, Coho, Chinook (spring, king there's another argument) are more common than the other doesn't mean they don't happen.
They're natures insurance policy.
... and rare?
I rarely catch Jill's of any kind but have, but many get out more than I do
It's all semantics and personal assessment of the issue.
They're both there.

[Johnny Canuck]

Pics of the "Jill" or it didn't happen 

[NexusGoo]

will post when I get home from work later