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Author Topic: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada  (Read 57610 times)

Spawn Sack

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Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« on: June 22, 2015, 10:30:41 AM »

Although the exchange rate sucks right now, the wife and I are still looking at some jet boats across the line. The right boat for the right price, yeah I'd go buy it. We would definitely prefer to buy local-ish, or at least in BC, but we are activley looking in the US as well.

Has anyone bought a US boat and brought it back across the line to BC? I google searched the subject title of this discussion and read some forums on other sites, some info on CBSA's site, and some other random sites. Not surprisingly, I cant seem to find some objective info that makes sense to me. Hoping to supplement my research with advise from this site.

SO, yeah, buying a US boat...a few questions I have...

-Would you just bring cash across the border? I am not uncomfortable carrying 10K or whatever in cash, however if I DON'T buy the boat, now I gotta convert that $ back to CAD, and I'm going to lose a lot of $ buying USD, then selling it back to the bank and buying CAD. Perhaps it would make more sense to have a price already worked out with the seller (subject to any deal breakers that come up in an inspection), and get a US money order made out in their name, and if you don't buy thge boat just tear up the money order?

-How does it work with insurance transporting the boat and trailer back to BC? Sites I have read have said that you need to buy the insurance from ICBC BEFORE you head across the line to buy the boat. Kind of sucks if you dont buy the boat and pre-paid for the insurance...

-What kind of paperwork do you need to get it across the border? One site said just bill or sale, another said to SEPERATE the boat and trailer and have a bill of sale for each (don't get why this would be necessary).

-How much tax (%) do you have to pay on the boat at the border?

-Once you are clear of the Canadian border now what do you do? Does the trailer have to be inspected like a US vehicle does?

Apologies for so many questions. Like I said I have been jotting down notes from different websites and an getting frustrated as a lot of the info is contradictory ???

I guess I could always drive to the border and hope for a helpful officer and hit them up for some info.

Would love to hear from someone who has gone through the process from A-Z and can walk me through it. Any other tips for buying a US boat would be great too.
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VA7DDP

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 11:20:20 AM »

At the Border you will need to present the "Bill of Sale" and "Proof of Ownership

The bill of sale needs to have cost separated for Motor, Trailer and Hull; both for CBSA and ICBC Purposes. It can be made up on a single invoice but costs need to be separated. 

For Duty & Taxes; They will determine which components (Motor, Boat, and Trailer) falls under NAFTA (North America Free Trade Agreement) Motor, Boat, and Trailer. If the component is built in North America there will be No Duty.

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You can use a US Trailer Permit to bring the trailer across, but once you are in Canada you must get Canadian Insurance (ICBC)

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You will need to ensure the trailer meets Transport Canada Requirements for use in Canada. For importing the trailer you will pay GST 5% & Duty to CBSA; and PST 7% to ICBC when you get BC Registration.

If the trailer is less than 15 years old, you will need to pay a RIV Fee (Registrar of Imported Vehicles) (Aprox. $250) https://www.riv.ca/PaymentAndFees.aspx

If the trailer is less than 15 years old, once you get to Canada you will need to get the Trailer Inspected by a Designated Inspection Facility (Aprox. $100) http://www.cvse.ca/vehicle_inspections/PDF/DIFs.pdf

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Remember to DECLARE Cash in excess of $10000 taken across the border, or it WILL be seized under Money Laundering Acts.

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Let me know if you have more questions

Good Resources:
http://boating.ncf.ca/buy-usa.html
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 11:24:44 AM by VA7DDP »
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kanuckle head

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 01:04:37 PM »

All good points to the previous post but would like to add on the trailer, the border will ask for any recall notice and paper works complying to Transport Canada by the trailer manufacturer prior to crossing the border

Just call the trailer manufacturer & quote on the vin # & model #
Also separate the bill of sale from the boat & trailer, for taxes on the trailer will be collected by insuring the trailer through icbc
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 01:27:07 PM »

Whew...good info thanks guys! A lot of hassle but could be worth it for the right boat at the right price.

VA7DDP: Okay so I need a bill of sale seperating the trailer, hull, and motor. For example trailer = 1000 + hull  = 3000 + motor = 6000 for $10,000 total. How about the proof of ownership? I am assuming this is something that can be transferred from the seller to me at a local insurance place in the US?

Can the bill of sale be a hand written and signed note/letter from the seller?

As far as the US trailer permit goes...I am assuming you can get this from any insurance place in the US? Any idea ballpark how much one costs?

I get that depending if the hull, motor, and trailer are built in NA duty fees will apply (any idea what % duty is?)

I will check into what the Transport Canada requirements are for the trailer (I'm assuming brake lights, back up lights, signals, ect?)

I will also check the link at the bottom of your reply. Thanks a lot  :)

kanuckle head:

Good call on checking for recall notices on the trailer.

Sounds like a LOT of hassle for both the person selling the boat (checking where each component is made, and so on), and especially thr person buying the boat. Unless I find a boat I really want in the US and the price is too good to pass up I really hope we end up buying a boat/trailer in Canada! However, if we do end up going across the line I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing and do not get any "surprises" on either side of the border.

Lastly, so it sounds like I do not need to have any paperwork going into the US? Seems like I can insure the trailer in the US to drive it back to Canada, and all the other paperwork will take place in the US and then at the Canadian border. A guy at work was telling me you need to get ICBC insurance for the trailer before you head to the US but I can't find anything supporting this.
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ShaunO

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 02:01:51 PM »

ICBC offers something called a "Binder of Insurance" which allows you to insure a trailer prior to import/registration in Canada.  To transport within the states, you will require a trip permit which is a piece of paper you buy and stick in your window, very similar to a temporary operator permit.  You'll need the insurance (see above) first in order to be provided a trip permit.  It might have already been mentioned but there is a published list from Transport Canada of acceptable trailers, so that in addition to the recall clearance letter is key.  Click here for vehicle admissibility http://www.riv.ca/VehicleAdmissibility.aspx

It can be a daunting process but the riv.ca website does spell a lot of it out for you.  Fill in the blanks here to have it spit out a checklist for your trailer  http://www.riv.ca/ImporterChecklist.aspx
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 02:30:25 PM »

Thanks for that ShaunO, so it sounds like my coworker may not have been talking out his arse afterall! "Binder of insurance," copy that.

Thanks for all the info from others as well, really appreciate it. If anyone else has info to add I'd love to hear it.

Really hoping we DONT buy a US boat but I'm glad I'm learning what has to be done in the event we do.

So if you buy a used boat in Canada from a dealer or private seller...do you have to pay GST 5% and PST 7%. I have only ever owned small 12 footers and only had to register and pay insurance/tax on the trailer.
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Fish or cut bait.

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 03:03:58 PM »

Also, when you get closer to being serious;
Ask the seller if he can pick up needed forms.
(But make sure YOU know the ones you need)
This will expedite the process for both parties.

(I used to have transfer papers filled out with all but the signature so I didn't have to wait an additional few hours of running around)

2 cents
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canso

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 04:12:01 PM »

They also like to see the craigslist add. So there is no discrepancies in the declared value.

Morty

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 05:59:46 PM »

Just went through that process myself.  Bought a 19' North River from southern Washington.  BTW, there's no sales tax to Canadians buying in Washington or Oregon.

Here's a little more to add to what's already presented.

Payment - if you are certain about the boat you are buying, and want a bit of wiggle room to negotiate price, you can get a Bank Draft or Money Order made out to the seller with an amount that's lower than you will eventually pay.  Then take a few thousand U.S. Cash with you to cover the negotiating difference.  If you're going to look at a couple, as I did, you're better off taking all cash.  I could not  find any 'bank' in Washington that would cash a money order made out to ME unless I had an account at their institution. 

Declare the cash at CBSA as well us US-CBP on your way down.  It may take you an extra 1/2 hour stopping at the Canadian side, but makes the US interview process a lot smoother.  I had $25k with me and US side didn't even count it partly because I had already done the Canadian.  You can print the Canadian declaration from the internet.  I filled out 3 copies in advance.  If you ask for help - the staff at both border security offices are pretty helpful.
 When at CBSA on your way down, grab a couple of VEHICLE IMPORT FORM - FORM 1's.  You can then fill in a lot of the obvious stuff before you're called into their office to pay the tax.  IMPORTANT - if you declare that you're taking down $20,000 for a purchase, and only pay $16,000 for it, CBSA is going to be looking for you to be bring back $4,000 US cash   (or receipts for other stuff you bought)


Title - US boats and trailers have an actual Certificate of Title document to prove ownership.  The form also serves to pretty much prove there is nothing officially owing on those assets.  When there's a loan in place, the lender usually keeps hold of the title documents.  If the boat seller has the titles, and the registered name matches their personal ID, then you're pretty certain that there's no liens on them.  The Seller will have to sign the Certificates 'over' to you.  You will also NEED those when bringing the equipment across the border.

Border Payment - you sometimes only need to pay the GST on the trailer at the time you "import" it across the border.  In my case they collected GST on both the trailer and boat.

All of the advice you've been getting can seem pretty intimidating, but if you make a list of what you need to take and do, then follow it step by step, it's pretty easy.  When I look back, I was pretty stressed about not doing everything right; but when I look back it was a pretty straight forward process.  None of the sellers I met with had any problem with me checking my lists and making sure we didn't miss anything.

Trailer Plates - if the trailer plates and insurance are current, you the buyer have a few days to tow the equipment back here with the US ones still attache.  You will need to send them back to the seller.

Actual "Importing" - I was told at CBSA that if I ever want to take this boat back to the US, or sell it to someone there, it would be best to actually "import" it.  Apparently that process requires a 3 day impound of the equipment.  They however also commented that If I were just trailering it down for a short time the US-CBP would probably: not notice, or not care.  I did not "import" mine and apparently the majority of small private boat purchases do not go through the Imported process.


Be organized
- if necessary get a half dozen file folders, or big envelopes, for your trip.  One for Craigslist / Boat Trader / iBoats... Ads, one for Canadian docs, one for US docs, one for boat Bill of Sale and Title, one for trailer Bill of Sale and Title, etc.  That will help with the border guys impression of how serious you are, and also make finding papers easier when asked for them.   KEEP ALL YOUR PAPERWORK !!!!  receipts for gas, lunch,.....  helps them see where you've been if you need to prove it.  Probably the trickiest bit of the whole process was checking the actual serial number stamped on the boat hull, engine, drive unit, and trailer against the Titles and Bill of Sale

After you're back you'll need to do 3 important things:
 - mail back the license plate
 - go to an ICBC agent and register the trailer into your name  (take ALL your paper)
 - get an Application for Pleasure Craft License from the internet and get it off to Transport Canada  form # 84-0172e  (mine was back in about 20 days)

other:- if the boat has a kicker and/or downriggers on it, ask for a price reduction if the seller takes them off.  (they're almost as cheap here and there's no exchange, etc.)
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VA7DDP

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 11:21:33 PM »

Whew...good info thanks guys! A lot of hassle but could be worth it for the right boat at the right price.

VA7DDP: Okay so I need a bill of sale seperating the trailer, hull, and motor. For example trailer = 1000 + hull  = 3000 + motor = 6000 for $10,000 total. How about the proof of ownership? I am assuming this is something that can be transferred from the seller to me at a local insurance place in the US?

Can the bill of sale be a hand written and signed note/letter from the seller?

As far as the US trailer permit goes...I am assuming you can get this from any insurance place in the US? Any idea ballpark how much one costs?

I get that depending if the hull, motor, and trailer are built in NA duty fees will apply (any idea what % duty is?)

I will check into what the Transport Canada requirements are for the trailer (I'm assuming brake lights, back up lights, signals, ect?)

I will also check the link at the bottom of your reply. Thanks a lot  :)

kanuckle head:

Good call on checking for recall notices on the trailer.

Sounds like a LOT of hassle for both the person selling the boat (checking where each component is made, and so on), and especially thr person buying the boat. Unless I find a boat I really want in the US and the price is too good to pass up I really hope we end up buying a boat/trailer in Canada! However, if we do end up going across the line I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing and do not get any "surprises" on either side of the border.

Lastly, so it sounds like I do not need to have any paperwork going into the US? Seems like I can insure the trailer in the US to drive it back to Canada, and all the other paperwork will take place in the US and then at the Canadian border. A guy at work was telling me you need to get ICBC insurance for the trailer before you head to the US but I can't find anything supporting this.

Yep you got it all the items prices have to be seperated. When my brother sold his both we left the price division to the discretion of the Buyer, but do not undervalue, or overvalue an item as it can effect you. Personally I would draft up an invoice with no prices, you will hand write the price after.

The Title is a document used in the USA to prove ownership, the seller will have this (we hope). It is similar to how we have a vehicle registration in BC.

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Insurance: Others have posted information; here it is again summarized:

Driving a vehicle from the U.S.

To drive a vehicle home from the U.S., you'll need to:

- Buy temporary insurance from ICBC called a "Binder for Owner's Interim Certificate of Insurance" from your Autoplan broker. If you're outside of B.C., call 1-800-328-4484, Monday to Friday, 8:15 - 4:30 PST.

- Buy an in-transit permit from the state in which you buy your vehicle. Please note, most U.S. states will not issue this permit without proof of insurance.
If you cancel the binder of insurance before its effective date, the full premium will be refunded. There are no refunds on binders of insurance once the policy is in effect.

When you arrive in B.C., you'll need to drive your vehicle to:
- a B.C. inspection facility, and
- an Autoplan broker's office to have it registered, licenced and insured for driving in B.C. The broker needs to see the vehicle to confirm the VIN and odometer reading, and check for any visible damage.
- RIV (Online) (Registrar of Imported Vehicles) (Aprox. $250) https://www.riv.ca/PaymentAndFees.aspx

http://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registration/buy-vehicle/Pages/Importing-a-vehicle-into-B-C.aspx
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 11:27:29 PM by VA7DDP »
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VA7DDP

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 11:34:00 PM »

If you are wanting to do the "Official" Importation Process, but not do the paperwork (it isnt overly complicated or hard, the documents are quite clear), you can hire a customs broker to handle the paperwork on your behalf, and details such as crossing the vehicle over. They charge $300-400 for their services.

The Broker that I use for importation is:

Carsons Brokers
#260 17735 1st Ave.
Surrey, BC V3S 9S1   

Phone:(604) 538-4966
Email: clearance@carson.ca
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Morty

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 12:36:29 PM »

Forgot a couple of things. No Tax - Lower Price

   - personal and general safety equipment is not taxable.  If you buy any with the boat, try to write that up on a separate invoice.  here's a link to the guidelines:
         http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/pst_100.pdf

  - when I brought my boat and trailer back, at tax form time, I was questioned quite extensively about why the total price I paid was several thousand dollars lower than the price shown in the Craigslist ad.  Have a good story.  In my case it was because the seller kept: the 8hp outboard, downriggers, Columbia River anchor & bracket.
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santefe

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2015, 02:40:23 PM »

Maybe I missed it but when bringing a boat and trailer back from Washington State you need to get the certificate or title of ownership for the boat and trailer.  A separate hand written bill sale each for the boat and trailer is ok.  I've taken the boat and trailer into the US for service several times with no problems although for the kicker there is a card that you should get from CBSA to indicate it was lawfully imported into Canada.
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santefe

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2015, 02:41:19 PM »

Maybe I missed it but when bringing a boat and trailer back from Washington State you need to get the certificate or title of ownership for the boat and trailer.  A separate hand written bill sale each for the boat and trailer is ok.  I've taken the boat and trailer into the US for service several times with no problems although for the kicker there is a card that you should get from CBSA to indicate it was lawfully imported into Canada.
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Buying a US boat and bringing back to Canada
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2015, 04:36:08 PM »

Alright...I re-read the entire thread and made some chicken scratch notes. I find things easier to understand if I write them down myself rather than just read them on a computer screen. I'll summarize what I got written down here. If any one sees any errors or omissions please tell  me. I'll bold any questions I can think of.

BEFORE GOING TO THE US:

-Assuming you end up buying a boat, decide how you will pay. I like the idea of bringing a draft in the seller's name less than you expect to pay, plus a couple of grand or so cash.  Or if you are feeling extra gangster bring all cash.

-Declare cash at CBSA and get paperwork for it before crossing to US (does anyone really do this?) Honestly I think I would just roll up to the US border, have all my paperwork in order and be honest about what's up. I am law enforcement and aways carry credentials when going across any border. I rarely get any hasssle.

-Make sure you know what forms seller needs and tell them to obtain them in advance. Ummmm...other than the certificate of tittle and a bill of sale is there any other paperwork the seller need to or will need to obtain?

-Get some vehicle import forms from CBSA and bring with you, fill out before arriving back at CBSA (isnt this just for cars? Boats too?)

-Make sure boat trailer meets Canadian regs, check for recalls!

-Get "binder of insurance" to transport trailer back. Do you really need? Others have said if trailer insurance is valid you can drive it across then mail them back the plate. I guess if the trailer insurance has expired you are hooped. Probably best to err on the side of caution and get it before departing?

Buying Boat:

-If all goes well and you want to buy it, get inspected by a marine mechanic.

-Get "Us trailer permit" to tow trailer back. Or can you just legally drive it back if the trailer has insurance, and then mail the seller the plates?

-Get seller to write you up a "bill of sale" seperating the trailer, boat, and motor. Get "proof of ownership" transferred into your name. If all goes well with the paperwork, pay the person and head back home with boat in tow!


CBSA:

-Have you "bill of sale" and "proof of ownership" ready to rock.

-Pay applicable duty and taxes. If the component was built in NA = do duty.

Once Across The Border:

-Get trailer inspected at Canadian Tire or wherever. ($100 approx)

-Get ICBC insurance on trailer

-Mail seller back plate (if you went this route)

-Apply for pleasure craft license

A Few Random Questions:

-Other than the seller haveing the Cerfiticate of Tittle, if there any other way to check if the boat has any leins?

-I think I'm a little unclear of what paperwork CBSA will wanty when I retunr. Obviouslty the bill of sale. How about the proof of ownership? Is this just the US Certificate of Tille transferred into my name? Any otehr paperwork I need? Vehicle Import Form sounds like it i not for importing a boat.
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