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Author Topic: So many Questions  (Read 15986 times)

A Frayed Knot

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2014, 04:43:53 PM »

I don't think its about it being "hard" or not "fun" as opposed the general "asshatery"
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2014, 05:06:21 PM »

An old fashioned but good way to deal with typical newbie questions is an FAQ. An FAQ could be pinned at the top of the board and users could post them their and new users who ask questions regarding regs, web links for basic info, fishing locations etc can simply be referred to a specific item in the FAQ.
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"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.

Tenz85

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2014, 07:23:21 PM »

An old fashioned but good way to deal with typical newbie questions is an FAQ. An FAQ could be pinned at the top of the board and users could post them their and new users who ask questions regarding regs, web links for basic info, fishing locations etc can simply be referred to a specific item in the FAQ.
I'm pretty sure this is already done in one sense or another. Unless you're computer illiterate which would be ironic because it's the new generations who ask the questions already asked but they don't know how to use the search function or browse the pre written articles. Anyway, how did this thread get such a wild bunch of responses from such vague OP??!

Tight lines.
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scouterjames

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2014, 08:14:16 PM »

KarateKick has summed it up quite nicely. Experienced anglers have a difficult time empathizing with how much knowledge beginners have to pick up to have a somewhat successful fishing day. It's also normal for beginner anglers to have a different expectation than more experienced anglers. It's normal for people who want to get into fishing ask about fishing spots, fishing reports, etc. After all, most people get into fishing because they want to catch fish, and they want to catch fish by using the easiest, quickest way. As the angler learns, grows and evolves, that expectation changes.

I'll admit that I have been annoyed by questions by members like KarateKick occasionally because to me they just seem straight forward. However, I'll remind myself regularly that I also was once at that stage. What I really dislike, is seeing anglers who become more experienced, and lack the patience to pass on the information they've gained to new anglers.

I get it, asking for fishing spots, fishing reports, will not benefit a new angler in the long run. If you don't wish to answer it, ignore it. Don't get irritated if someone asks about fishing regulations. Yes, people can read the regulations, OR they can ask about it if they find it difficult to understand. Answer it without passing on any judgement. Your contribution will only benefit the fisheries.

As for the composition of the discussion forum. This forum is what it is, people come and go. I don't really have the intent to build it up as a close community like flybc which is active on get-togethers etc. Many members here have become good friends and go fishing together. Great, but for the most part, I run this medium like a Q&A board.

Well, Rodney - I can honestly say that with the help of members on this board (you being one of them, on more than one occasion!) that answered my dumb questions (sometimes in a PM to avoid web-rush to locations etc), that I am the fisherman I am today.  I likely would have given up if not for the help of members of this board helping me online and on a couple of occasions, spending a day on the river with me.  I don't know if I'd call myself a 'seasoned' fisherman LOL  BUT I can hold my own, know and understand different ways and places and times to fish, and am usually somewhat successful.  I enjoy it much more that when I started and got frustrated from lack of knowledge.

Had I learned from the first place a friend from out of province and I went just to check it out, I would be ripping and snagging - because that was what we saw (and obviously, they were catching!).  From this (and a couple other sites) I learned ethical ways to fish, I learned productive ways to fish, I learned more than one method of fishing.  I learned to enjoy our fisheries, and now have a little bit of knowledge to share!

I could go on, but take a big blanket of my thanks, and others like me and cover up the complaints - and that goes to all the members that have and do share their knowledge - online, in PMs or in person.  THANK YOU!
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scouterjames

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2014, 08:17:31 PM »

I believe that the only silly question is the one you do not ask. Everyone starts somewhere and it's that curiosity that leads to someone picking up the things that will make them a successful, ethical angler.

There are no silly questions - only silly answers!  8)
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scouterjames

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2014, 08:27:25 PM »

I think (to go with my above) part of it is how they are asking.

Rather then going "is (insert river name) a good place to fish" or "where are good spots on the (insert river name)" they could ask "what structure makes good fish habitat" or "where do coho hold in a river." 

Not only will they avoid annoying guys, but they learn why a river might fish well, so they can look for this structure elsewhere in their fishing travels.

It's also in how questions are answered - they may ask them "wrong", but they could be answered "right".
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2014, 08:30:17 AM »

There's been few cases of people asking the same questions 2 or more times. There's been at least one case where they found the answer at the appropriate source on line, admitted getting an answer at a tackle shop but still had to ask the question here. Then still complained when directed to the regs that they still weren't sure. Are some people just playing dumb? That's my impression.
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2014, 12:20:01 PM »

Experienced anglers have a difficult time empathizing with how much knowledge beginners have to pick up to have a somewhat successful fishing day. It's also normal for beginner anglers to have a different expectation than more experienced anglers. It's normal for people who want to get into fishing ask about fishing spots, fishing reports, etc. After all, most people get into fishing because they want to catch fish, and they want to catch fish by using the easiest, quickest way. As the angler learns, grows and evolves, that expectation changes.


I am sure you have noticed but there is a lot of peer pressure among experienced anglers not to reveal information particularly regarding locations and times. Talk about a stream or lake and someone will chirp up about the need to protect sensitive systems or some lecture about not communicating 'secret' locations or spots. Others will complain how internet 'outing' floods once quiet spots with aggressive tyros.

 Traditionally most new anglers learned the sport from friends, relatives or work mates and then supplemented that from books and magazines. There are dozens of websites etc to mine for general and local information. Why don't newbies use them? Sure experienced anglers will offer some advice on the water and sometimes it just means asking. Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:46:07 AM by RalphH »
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G-Ratt

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2014, 01:22:21 PM »

Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.

Mass generalization there. Sounds like you're talking about the Sockeye fishery, and those people aren't technically real anglers. I've actually noticed the opposite about the "behaviour of inexperienced anglers" myself, especially this season. I have a group of fishing buddies and we are all in our early twenties. We fish the right way, because we all picked up tips from experienced anglers on this forum and others. What I HAVE seen in my 10 trips out this fall are much more experienced anglers setting a horrible example for the younger generation with unethical fishing techniques.

We have run into other groups of younger anglers, and they seem to be much more likely to stop and chat, share advice, etc. Whereas when we try to speak with some clearly superior experienced fisherman, we are more likely than not to receive a gruff, short answer, if anything at all.

Might just be me, but this kind of seems like the typical grumpy old man syndrome, upset that the internet has made gathering of information easier for new anglers, when they "had to walk 100 miles in the snow, naked" to find their fish.

Twice at the Vedder experienced anglers have taken a couple minutes out of their fishing time to help us out, and I am so thankful for it. Both times I gained a valuable piece of knowledge that has helped me fish more effectively. Maybe if we all just work harder to say hello to each other on the river and exchange info, it might ease the burden on the forums a tiny bit. Just an idea.


« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 01:26:03 PM by G-Ratt »
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A Frayed Knot

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2014, 01:27:39 PM »

I am sure you have noticed but there is a lot of peer pressure among experienced anglers not to reveal information particularly regarding locations and times. Talk about a stream or lake and someone will chirp up about the need to protect sensitive systems or some lecture about not communicating 'secret' locations or spots. Others will complain how internet 'outing' floods once quiet spots with aggressive tyros.

 Traditionally most new anglers learned the sport from friends, relatives or work mates and then supplemented that from books and magazines. There are dozens of websites etc to mine for general and local information. Why don't newbies use them? Sure experienced anglers will offer some advice on the water and sometimes it such means asking. Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.

You'd be surprised how many people usually do, but sometimes even that fact finding mission of google or other websites, its hard to interpret that information, you know what they say about assumptions. they make a A SS out of you and me.
Not everyone has a great pool of friends to get advice and knowledge. Ideally that gap was filled by places like these forums, which Rod has even said this is suppose to be somewhat a giant Q and A.
People don't have the luxury now a days of commuting to all high heaven like the old days when it was 0.92/L its not always about getting into fish looking for these lakes and rivers/streams about just finding a spot they know will be reliable and tired of the guessing game.

One could argue everything you just argued about could easily be said to someone who's visited the same sites or asked some fundamental questions and just end up lashing out, they get frustrated and decide "I don't give a F!"

I guarantee i bet most would not even help people out on the water if they saw them struggling, or they showed up and a place was crowded out, I've given up spots so fishermen, regardless of age and sex can get a spot. Rather then being a dick and saying "just walk the river find a spot" they came to that spot for a reason. Probably on the advice of someone. It's a easy conversation to have "I'm about ready for my daily bad habit, have at her...don't go deep, couple of nasty snags" though I definitely prefer to only give up my spots to cute red heads and younger adults/tweens getting started.  :P

No, Honor, No Valor, No Compassion, Not a drop of Humility anymore. Which is why you have a recreational sport more divided than Palestinians and the Israelites. Thats the bug up my butt. Not about finding a place to fish or when tides are, they are guides for that, its true and apps (everyone has a smartphone or should by now) Orvis App is beast.

Also if you want great fishing locations/tips and gear Tom Rosenbauer - a renowned fly fisherman who has got a few great books out there.
His last two podcasts have been about Atlantic and Steelhead fishing as well as a pod about west coast saltwater fly fishing.

But if people want give out some information regardless of the kind of question it might thats there right.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 01:29:50 PM by A Frayed Knot »
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A Frayed Knot

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2014, 01:34:52 PM »


Might just be me, but this kind of seems like the typical grumpy old man syndrome, upset that the internet has made gathering of information easier for new anglers, when they "had to walk 100 miles in the snow, naked" to find their fish.

Twice at the Vedder experienced anglers have taken a couple minutes out of their fishing time to help us out, and I am so thankful for it. Both times I gained a valuable piece of knowledge that has helped me fish more effectively. Maybe if we all just work harder to say hello to each other on the river and exchange info, it might ease the burden on the forums a tiny bit. Just an idea.

The first part of this I completely agree with. The Second I am glad to see and agree with. There are ways to solve a lot of this on the online side, depending on how much work the site admins want put in, but maybe a section for full members after say 6 months or a year you have access to read and write only forum, where this so called "black helicopter" information (sensitive info for the humorless) could be put into. You can alter settings on a forum so unless you have been flagged and logged on you can't actually even access it all together.
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2014, 02:08:42 PM »

You'd be surprised how many people usually do, but sometimes even that fact finding mission of google or other websites, its hard to interpret that information, you know what they say about assumptions. they make a A SS out of you and me...

No, Honor, No Valor, No Compassion, Not a drop of Humility anymore. Which is why you have a recreational sport more divided than Palestinians and the Israelites. Thats the bug up my butt. Not about finding a place to fish or when tides are, they are guides for that, its true and apps (everyone has a smartphone or should by now) Orvis App is beast...


 This was a rant at the get go but when you came to the Palestinians and Israeli part it became irrational and downright mean spirited. I've done my fair share of answering questions & providing info both here, other websites and on the water. Most of what I know I learned as I described. I have fished for over 50 years and almost all of that locally I can think of very few times anyone offered me advice or help in the years I started out. When I was a younger I went fishing with my father, that was how I got the habit. On some of the rivers we fished in the fall, we quickly stopped telling people the truth when they asked how the fishing was or if we had caught anything, as invariably they'd plant themselves right beside us if we did. Even 50 years ago we had to be on the river before the crack of dawn to get a spot we favoured. There is difference between wanting a little help and information and greed and sloth. Folks looking to learn have to be charitable as well. They have stop thinking they are charity cases deserving of someone else's singular attention.
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2014, 02:11:35 PM »

Mass generalization there. Sounds like you're talking about the Sockeye fisher...



No generalization what so ever and the Vedder is often a bigger dirt hole than the Fraser.
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G-Ratt

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2014, 03:40:49 PM »

"Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with."

That's a generalization. As I've said, I've seen many more age 50+ experienced anglers ripping their lines through the water, than younger, less experienced rods. And I've never seen a giant family of people keeping extra fish on the Vedder. Sounds like bitter, grumpy conjecture to me.
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RalphH

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Re: So many Questions
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2014, 03:58:14 PM »

A generalization is of the form all A is B and which is not how I put what I said. Rather I allowed it may be a small minority but I don't know you or whoever and I would be reluctant to help someone on such a basis which is consistent with human nature in general (that's a generalization). It has been ever thus as I tried to point out in a previous post. The reluctance to help novices one is not familiar with has always been more or less the case. I'd also say that expecting anything for the asking and getting angry when that doesn't happen is symptomatic of a lack of maturity which is a problem for one or 2 people here. That is not a generalization.

 I'd also say consider that nobody knows everything. I am still learning and almost everyday out on the water presents me with something new.
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"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.