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Author Topic: More Money Down The Drain  (Read 12792 times)

Fisherbob

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2014, 01:53:27 PM »

Sorry, but that's definitely Steve. Nobody else sniffs "parts" like that. ;)

Again, blur the lines.Convenient to skip past the foreign ownership thingy isn't it? Like it or not, we're supporting foreign owned companies failures with Canadian tax dollars. Do you buffoons like paying taxes so Norwegian companies that foul our waters can stay afloat?
I must say, I have had more intelligent topic debates with my grandchildren.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 02:07:22 PM by Fisherbob »
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shuswapsteve

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2014, 06:00:22 PM »

I must say, I have had more intelligent topic debates with my grandchildren.
Yeah I know what you mean.  He doesn't like talking about that EI subsidy much. I like it when he gets so upset about fish farm but forgets how the Canadian taxpayer is doing its part to help out his friends 10 months of the year. Keep ranting, Bonker...lol. Thanks for the little tid bit of info, Absolon.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2014, 06:02:31 PM »

Shoeswap! That explains the sniffing I feel behind me!
Lol

Damage control going on at the fear monger camp AGAIN.
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Dave

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2014, 08:25:54 PM »

Lol

Damage control going on at the fear monger camp AGAIN.

Mothership down, and apparently out.  Not much left, is there boys ;D
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absolon

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2014, 12:08:34 AM »

Sorry, but that's definitely Steve. Nobody else sniffs "parts" like that. ;)

Again, blur the lines.Convenient to skip past the foreign ownership thingy isn't it? Like it or not, we're supporting foreign owned companies failures with Canadian tax dollars. Do you buffoons like paying taxes so Norwegian companies that foul our waters can stay afloat?

Let's be real here.

Steve is geographically unable to be anywhere near your unwashed nether regions; that snuffling you feel is either your dog or a figment of your imagination used to take a personal shot at him, which conveniently obviates the need for you to actually respond to what he said.

There are five forms of defense used when someone is trying to avoid actually dealing with the facts presented to them.

One is as you demonstrated when you took the shot at Steve. It's called shooting the messenger and is intended to upset them enough to blur their focus on the subject and allow you to escape questions you can't answer. It appears to be by far your favourite. Another is to personally attack the original source of the facts, usually undertaken when you can't actually discredit the facts.

A third is to evade the facts entirely, as you are doing when you represent the funds paid to the farms as compensation for an order to destroy their crop as a guaranteed income program or a subsidy and as you also are doing with respect to the use of UI as a subsidy to the fishing industry, something you, as a Maritimer with family you claim was involved in the industry, can't help be aware of.

Related to that is the fourth, the diversion of the discussion away from a legitimate point someone makes, often carried out by proffering opinion pieces written by authors who share both your opinion and your disregard for the real facts. It's also often attempted by moving the goalposts; ignoring a valid rebuttal of your point by altering your complaint to focus on some other aspect.

Finally, there is the construction of straw men, the creation of false scenarios you think you can easily muster a convincing argument against. In some cases, you might actually be able to do that, but it is meaningless because those scenarios aren't actually reflections of reality. Examples would be the idea that we are subsidizing incomes of foreign companies or that fish farms are recipients of untold government largesse are all nicely attackable constructs but in reality are grossly oversimplified, twist too many facts and overlook too many relevant details to be even an inaccurate representation of reality.

I ran across a post on another forum tonight where someone was able to use all five techniques in the short space of about ten lines, as impressive a performance as I've ever run across. I can respect that just for the simple fact it was so well executed even if I can see at the same time that it was solely intended to avoid dealing with the reality of the actual facts. I can't say I'm much interested in having a discussion with someone who needs multiple posts to accomplish only one or two of the techniques of evasion and especially when they don't do it very well. The discussion goes nowhere but downhill. That may be your intention in the first place; I've not actually seen you do anything else here. If that is indeed the case let me point out to you that if you really feel the need to have a pissing contest, "Bawb" and "shoeswap" are just dribbles getting your shoes wet.

No need to reply, these are just observations and not an invitation to discuss anything.
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Novabonker

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2014, 05:26:42 AM »

Blah,blah,blah. Who do I give my nickel to Lucy?


Let's be real here.

Steve is geographically unable to be anywhere near your unwashed nether regions; that snuffling you feel is either your dog or a figment of your imagination used to take a personal shot at him, which conveniently obviates the need for you to actually respond to what he said.

There are five forms of defense used when someone is trying to avoid actually dealing with the facts presented to them.

One is as you demonstrated when you took the shot at Steve. It's called shooting the messenger and is intended to upset them enough to blur their focus on the subject and allow you to escape questions you can't answer. It appears to be by far your favourite. Another is to personally attack the original source of the facts, usually undertaken when you can't actually discredit the facts.

A third is to evade the facts entirely, as you are doing when you represent the funds paid to the farms as compensation for an order to destroy their crop as a guaranteed income program or a subsidy and as you also are doing with respect to the use of UI as a subsidy to the fishing industry, something you, as a Maritimer with family you claim was involved in the industry, can't help be aware of.

Related to that is the fourth, the diversion of the discussion away from a legitimate point someone makes, often carried out by proffering opinion pieces written by authors who share both your opinion and your disregard for the real facts. It's also often attempted by moving the goalposts; ignoring a valid rebuttal of your point by altering your complaint to focus on some other aspect.

Finally, there is the construction of straw men, the creation of false scenarios you think you can easily muster a convincing argument against. In some cases, you might actually be able to do that, but it is meaningless because those scenarios aren't actually reflections of reality. Examples would be the idea that we are subsidizing incomes of foreign companies or that fish farms are recipients of untold government largesse are all nicely attackable constructs but in reality are grossly oversimplified, twist too many facts and overlook too many relevant details to be even an inaccurate representation of reality.

I ran across a post on another forum tonight where someone was able to use all five techniques in the short space of about ten lines, as impressive a performance as I've ever run across. I can respect that just for the simple fact it was so well executed even if I can see at the same time that it was solely intended to avoid dealing with the reality of the actual facts. I can't say I'm much interested in having a discussion with someone who needs multiple posts to accomplish only one or two of the techniques of evasion and especially when they don't do it very well. The discussion goes nowhere but downhill. That may be your intention in the first place; I've not actually seen you do anything else here. If that is indeed the case let me point out to you that if you really feel the need to have a pissing contest, "Bawb" and "shoeswap" are just dribbles getting your shoes wet.

No need to reply, these are just observations and not an invitation to discuss anything.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 05:30:48 AM by Novabonker »
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absolon

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2014, 08:13:41 AM »

Techniques 1 and 3.
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Novabonker

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2014, 08:15:36 AM »

Let's be real here.

Steve is geographically unable to be anywhere near your unwashed nether regions; that snuffling you feel is either your dog or a figment of your imagination used to take a personal shot at him, which conveniently obviates the need for you to actually respond to what he said.



There are five forms of defense used when someone is trying to avoid actually dealing with the facts presented to them.

One is as you demonstrated when you took the shot at Steve. It's called shooting the messenger and is intended to upset them enough to blur their focus on the subject and allow you to escape questions you can't answer. It appears to be by far your favourite.

Yeah Big Boy - Read the post. I've taken a few cheap shots - Read your posts. Pffft!

Another is to personally attack the original source of the facts, usually undertaken when you can't actually discredit the facts.

See above

A third is to evade the facts entirely, as you are doing when you represent the funds paid to the farms as compensation for an order to destroy their crop as a guaranteed income program or a subsidy and as you also are doing with respect to the use of UI as a subsidy to the fishing industry, something you, as a Maritimer with family you claim was involved in the industry, can't help be aware of.

Obviously you missed or skip over little things like the Canadian taxpayer paying for foreign companies failures. But that's an inconvenient truth that we should ignore....

Related to that is the fourth, the diversion of the discussion away from a legitimate point someone makes, often carried out by proffering opinion pieces written by authors who share both your opinion and your disregard for the real facts. It's also often attempted by moving the goalposts; ignoring a valid rebuttal of your point by altering your complaint to focus on some other aspect.


Yeah, because Bawb never does that :o ::) ;D

Finally, there is the construction of straw men, the creation of false scenarios you think you can easily muster a convincing argument against. In some cases, you might actually be able to do that, but it is meaningless because those scenarios aren't actually reflections of reality. Examples would be the idea that we are subsidizing incomes of foreign companies or that fish farms are recipients of untold government largesse are all nicely attackable (inventing words?LOL!) constructs but in reality are grossly oversimplified, twist too many facts and overlook too many relevant details to be even an inaccurate representation of reality.

Do we give taxpayer money to foreign firms when their ventures don't succeed? It doesn't take 7 years in school to answer that

I ran across a post on another forum tonight where someone was able to use all five techniques in the short space of about ten lines, as impressive a performance as I've ever run across. I can respect that just for the simple fact it was so well executed even if I can see at the same time that it was solely intended to avoid dealing with the reality of the actual facts. I can't say I'm much interested in having a discussion with someone who needs multiple posts to accomplish only one or two of the techniques of evasion and especially when they don't do it very well. The discussion goes nowhere but downhill. That may be your intention in the first place; I've not actually seen you do anything else here. If that is indeed the case let me point out to you that if you really feel the need to have a pissing contest, "Bawb" and "shoeswap" are just dribbles getting your shoes wet.
No need to reply, these are just observations and not an invitation to discuss anything.

Yep - take the cheap and easy way. run away and avoid the simple fact that our tax dollars are funding foreign interests.It IS just that simple - and those are the facts. You don't like them because they don't suit your agenda. Take your ball and run home!
Hypocrisy anyone?
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absolon

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 08:26:25 AM »

Looks like you're getting your boilers stoked up!
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Novabonker

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2014, 08:26:57 AM »

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absolon

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2014, 09:42:32 AM »

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Dave

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shuswapsteve

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Novabonker

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2014, 06:34:22 AM »

Sooooo- in conclusion, the circle believes the Canadian taxpayer should fund offshore corporations, that take their profits out of the country if they have failures?????
The Atlantic EI thing is for Canadians, funded by Canadians, but , in your generosity, you feel we should extend our wallets to the rest of the world.

Can you tell me when you all get together for the next meeting? Do you prefer to catch the bus or do you ride in on your unicorns? I bet you all look cute in your gear.......

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Fisherbob

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Re: More Money Down The Drain
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2014, 07:20:40 AM »

Sooooo- in conclusion, the circle believes the Canadian taxpayer should fund offshore corporations, that take their profits out of the country if they have failures?????
The Atlantic EI thing is for Canadians, funded by Canadians, but , in your generosity, you feel we should extend our wallets to the rest of the world.

Can you tell me when you all get together for the next meeting? Do you prefer to catch the bus or do you ride in on your unicorns? I bet you all look cute in your gear.......


I would rather see our tax dollars going to keep employment in Canada than have foreigners trying to take employment away. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2010/12/alexandra-morton-correspondence.html
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:43:40 AM by Fisherbob »
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