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[Spawn Sack]

I know this topis has been discussed before...but I can't find the exact answer I'm looking for. I'm happy with the way my roe turns out if I cure whole skiens, but no so happy with the way it turns out if I cure single eggs (for spawn sacks).

I've recently started hardening my own single eggs (from Spring or Chum mostly) to make my own spawn sacks for steelhead fishing. The recipe I am using, and the only one I have tried, I got from the Winter 2012 issue of Salmon and Steelhead Journal. The recipe is:
 
2 cups distilled water
 1/2 cup borax
 1/2 cup non-iodized salt
 1 tablespoon brown sugar
 1/4 cup shrimp pellets (I didn't bother using)
 
The directions are to mix ingredents and soak eggs overnight. It dosen't say to rinse the eggs after the curing is done, but they have little chunks of borax etc on them, so I put them in a colander and gave them a good rinse with cold tap water (I have no idea if this is a no-no...it didn't seem to affect the eggs at all).
 
The eggs seem to turn out alright. They look like single egg sacks I have bought in the past from Fred's Tackle. One thing I notice is they are pretty delicate, and break rather easily while tying sacks or when fishing them. My goals in posting this topic are:
 
1- Does anyone have any comments on my recipe or curing methods? (eg. don't rinse them with tap water, etc).

2- Does anyone have an opinion  on which fish's eggs make the best cured single eggs? (I've heard chum are the best, but no sure why)
 
3- Does anyone wish to share a single curing recipe that works for them? Ideally I am looking for a recipe that will make my eggs more tough/durable. I realize this may result in sacks that aren't as appealing to the fish; however, I am willing to sacrifice a little on the natural scent/look to not have them break so easily.
 
4- Does anyone have an idea how long cured single eggs will last in the fridge/freezer? I cured some up a month or so ago and tied sacks with them right away. I did some the other day with the same eggs and they seemed to break a little more easily. I've also noticed that some of the sacks I've taken out of the freezer for steelheading have some bursted eggs - damn it! But then others are fine with all eggs intact...weird...
 
The magazine describes this cure as a "light cure." I guess I am looking for a heavier cure that will result in more durable eggs. I have done some research on the internet and it seems there are dozens of different ways that vary widely. I would greatly appreciate anyone who wishes to share their egg curing wisdom with me. If it matters, I will be using my sacks for winter steelhead on the Chilliwack (Vedder) river. All the sacks I have tied so far are frozen in zip lock bags.

Some tips I have got so far from my buddies are:

1- DON'T rinse your eggs with tap water after curing them (aparently chemicals in tap water repel fish)
2-Double the salt in my recipe and don't use the borax in the brine, however store the eggs in borax in the freezer.
3-Just cure the single eggs in a ziplock with procure and powered krill, once cured dry and store in borax in freeezer.

I have not tried any of these suggestion as all the single eggs I had I've already cured up and tied into sacks. Next summer I'm hoping to tie up some much better sacks with my new salmon roe. Thanks everybody!

[Spoonman]

"Just cure the single eggs in a ziplock with procure and powered krill, once cured dry and store in borax in freeezer."....this is pretty much what I do....I dont' intentionally make singles but use the singles that fall off the skeins I cure...try adding some salt/sugar and plain knox gelatin to the mix....try Pautzke fire cure as it has krill in it....with using a chem cure the singles and tied sacks should be good fo up to 2 years.....just make sure to use minimal borax when freezing or they will dry right out....I have also  used water hardened eggs(very tough) from the tackle shop, treated them with chem-cure for colour and scent with good results

[adriaticum]

I cure them just as I cure roe skeins

[EZ_Rolling]

I tried to do my own singles as well but they were way too delicate compared to the ones you can buy or the pre-made roe bags.

[norton]

You didn't say if the eggs were frozen first. Before cured them , or if they were fresh. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Freezing eggs or skeins will break the eggs ., they will expand and burst. I simply put my egg sacs or roe in a glass jar and leave a space at the top, then light a put a piece of paper in top of jar On fire.Wait a few seconds then screw lid on jar as paper is still burning, the flame will go out, and has burnt the oxygen out of the jar. Then just put it in the fridge, but don't freeze it, it will last for months.

[Fish Assassin]

I agree with not freezing the eggs.

[Tadpole]

 There is only one proper cure for single eggs. It is so called cold water hardening. It is simple process and finished product is durable like a jensen eggs but it is natural with visible orange yolk spot in the middle. To make good water cured singles timing is everything.  As the name says, they have to be collected as a single eggs, not attached to the skeins anymore.
    Put your single eggs in a large glass jar up to bottom quarter of the jar height. Put it in a sink and run COLD water in a small stream in to the jar allowing  the water to spill over the jar edge without loosing any eggs. Live this trickle of cold water to run for at least an hour. Then put them in a storing jar in to  sea salt SATURATED solution. If solution is truly saturated they can be stored in the freezer for years without loosing any quality. As you can see in this process only Chum eggs, water and sea salt are used and fish loves them like a candy .
 Difficulty is in obtaining a real  Chum loose eggs. I have good friend from Local Cheam Band and this folks love mature Chum for one  type of their native food preparations.
 They have a DFO permit and set once or twice stationery nets in mid November. My native buddy call me before they pull the nets out. I rush to the river and collect fresh eggs in to bucket as soon as they are on the shore, then I water cure them in natural Fraser water for an hour or two. This way I don't have to use chlorinated water for the process. End product is great.

[Spawn Sack]

Thanks for the responses guys! A few questions/comments:

SPOONMAN: I like your method, but ideally I am hoping my eggs will turn out looking like a fertalized egg. You know where it's translucent and has the small red dot in the middle. I'm not exactly sure why but I have heard from guys that this appearance of egg is ideal when tying roe sacks. I did up one batch of single eggs with just procure, drained off the liquid after a few hours, and let them air dry. They turned out TOUGH and made really durable sacks. The only way they would break is if the sack got caught between rocks and ripped open. However they eggs just don't have the appearance I'm looking for.

NORTON: I did water harden my eggs with fresh single eggs. Well, they were still attached to the skien, but I scraped then off with a plastic spoon with pretty good results (few if any eggs broke in the process). From here I hardened them with the recipe I gave in my initial posting. They turned out LOOKING quite nice, but are not very durable when fished. Also, yeah, some off the eggs burst in the freezer.

Your jar method of storage sounds like it would work well. However I need my sacs to last about 6 months, and once steelhead season starts I'd be opening it once a week or so grab a dozen or so sacks. Do you re-burn the paper every time you open the jar?

TADPOLE: I really like the sounds of your method! I want the "durable jensen like egg with a natural visible orange yolk spot in the middle." Just a few questions...

1- If the eggs are still sttached to the skien, is it ok to scrape them off? I am able to do this without bursting the eggs. I am left with a gross slimey skien and a nice bunch of single eggs.

2- Why do you have to keep the cold water trickling into the jar? Is it to keep the temp of the water cold? Couldn't you just stick them in cold water then in the fridge?

3- Does it have to be SEA salt? How about non-iodized (coarse) salt?

4- If you store the salt solution in the freezer it will not freeze? Can you keep the eggs in the fridge in this solution? How about if you have already tied up the sacks? Do you keep them in the brine in the freezer?

5- Why only Chum eggs? I hardened up some chum, some spring, some coho, and some sockeye this year. Obviously the chum and spring roe is larger than the coho and sockeye. Do the fish care about egg size? I'm curious what's so hot about chum roe...

6- About the Fraser water method...are you able to establish a "trickle" like with the tap method? I undertsand the Fraser water isn't chlorinated like tap water which is an advantage. What do you think about using distilled water?

[Fish Assassin]

I just use coarse non-iodized salt in fresh non-chlorinated water. Make sure the water is supersaturated with salt. Just dump the single eggs into the solution and keep overnight in the fridge. Drain the water in the morning and put in a jar and store in the fridge. No need to freeze. They will last up to a year or more with no problems.

[Spawn Sack]

Thanks for that Fish Assasin (cool name by the way). Just a few quick questions:

- non-chlorinated water = distilled water? brita water? I live in Chillwack and the tap water is pretty good also.

-To "super saturate" water...how do you do this? I'm assuming just keep adding salt until no more will dissolve?

-Once water hardened you just keep the eggs in a jar with no liquid? How about if you have sacks tied up? Just keep in a jar in the fride the same? I have heard of some guys storing their water hardedned eggs in anise oil...any opinion on this?

Thanks again for your response.

[Fish Assassin]

I prefer non-chlorinated water but you can use ordinary tap water. My friend use tap water and it works.

The water is saturated when the salt no longer dissolves in the water and it starts accumulating on the bottom of the container.

[Spawn Sack]

Fish Assasin, thanks for the message, very helpful! A couple thoughts...what's the "difference" between river water vs. tap water vs. distilled water? Well, what I mean is... is  one more advantageous than the others for water hardening? I have heard some fishermen say ONLY use distilled water! Another FWR member has a method similar to yours but he says to put the eggs in a container and keep a trickle of cold water flowing in/spilling out of the jar for 1-2 hours to "cold water harden" the eggs. Then he says to brine them in the saturated salt solution. I'm not sure if this would have an advantage over just putting the eggs in a ziplock with river water. Perhaps the trickle method keeps the eggs colder during this phase?

One last question: You mentioned you use anise or shrimp oil to scent the eggs. Do you do this after the eggs are hardened but before tying sacks? Or just dab a bit on the sack before casting it out to an unsuspecting fish?