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Author Topic: Another Fisih Farm Problem  (Read 22774 times)

alwaysfishn

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2012, 03:13:54 PM »

Testing will be taking place this weekend in the Chilliwack area on the Fraser. ;D ;D ;D


Good to see the testing is continuing..... 
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Dave

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2012, 03:21:29 PM »

I'm curious ... what is testing?  Chris, do you mean sampling will be taking place?
And of course, by who and how?
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aquapaloosa

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2012, 03:24:02 PM »

Who is sampling?  Regardless of who it is if people sampling are not going to give up the actual lab reports than its a huge waist of money.  If it was my money I would be pissed. >:(  I think that if individuals are going to donate money for sampling they should insist the the lab reports be posted which is not what we are seeing with mortons latest claim about the cutthroats.  Maybe its because she got caught in a lie on the ISAe thing.
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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

alwaysfishn

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2012, 03:47:04 PM »

Who is sampling?  Regardless of who it is if people sampling are not going to give up the actual lab reports than its a huge waist of money.  If it was my money I would be pissed. >:(  I think that if individuals are going to donate money for sampling they should insist the the lab reports be posted which is not what we are seeing with mortons latest claim about the cutthroats.  Maybe its because she got caught in a lie on the ISAe thing.

What so you can ridicule the test reports? I suggest a first approach would be to see the tests the feedlots, DFO and CFIA are supposedly doing. In Morton's case, private money is being used to do the testing, so there is absolutely no responsibility to the public to release the tests. In the case of the other folks that are supposedly testing, they are using public tax dollars or shareholder money.

Until they take the lead and become transparent the natural assumption is that they are hiding something...
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aquapaloosa

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2012, 03:56:57 PM »

I never ridiculed them.  That stuff is over my head.  But you seem pretty convinced for a banker :-\
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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

chris gadsden

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2012, 04:01:26 PM »

I never ridiculed them.  That stuff is over my head.  But you seem pretty convinced for a banker :-\
Thanks, I gave a reply to Dave, pushed post at the same time as you and mine got knocked off. ??? ;D ;D
Will have to repost later as out the door now.

chris gadsden

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2012, 07:14:13 PM »

I'm curious ... what is testing?  Chris, do you mean sampling will be taking place?
And of course, by who and how?
I would be there sampling tomorrow too but have to be with the 2 displays at Island 22. To bad you cannot go to Island 22 tomorrow as Alex and the crew may drop by and you and others could personally ask the questions you keep asking.

If we get the fundrasier going in the fall I am sure you all will attend and meet this great lady and once again ask your questions tere. ;D

alwaysfishn

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2012, 07:39:35 PM »


If we get the fundraiser going in the fall I am sure you all will attend and meet this great lady and once again ask your questions there. ;D

I think they are probably afraid of her and may be more comfortable criticizing her endeavors from behind their computer screens....   ;D

By the way Chris, I've been meaning to ask you what a "fisih farm" is. ........ I've just been assuming it's a diseased feedlot.   :D
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chris gadsden

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2012, 09:10:03 PM »

I think they are probably afraid of her and may be more comfortable criticizing her endeavors from behind their computer screens....   ;D

By the way Chris, I've been meaning to ask you what a "fisih farm" is. ........ I've just been assuming it's a diseased feedlot.   :D
Of course. ::)

troutbreath

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2012, 11:16:47 PM »

Brown noser #2 here:

 
The only one of those fish farm types going to be around criticizing anything after all the fish farms are wiped out, by virus and who knows what will be Dave. God bless him after chowing down on those farmed frankenfish.  :) Long after the dirty diseased farmed salmon are plowed into the pristine coast forest. Aqua will be water down the drain. Never to defend the collapse of the cheap farm technique, that will cheap out on vaccinations but gladly pay to plow the salmon back on our land. Cheap values, cheap science, cheap on investment in their own resource/business. Happened before and has a great proability to happen again with disease from these fish farms. At this point I hope that the local virus that affects Atlantic salmon here finish them off.

When you think about the past when they tried to introduce Atlantic salmon here and they never took, maybe it means they never will. :-\
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

shuswapsteve

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2012, 10:48:08 AM »

What so you can ridicule the test reports? I suggest a first approach would be to see the tests the feedlots, DFO and CFIA are supposedly doing. In Morton's case, private money is being used to do the testing, so there is absolutely no responsibility to the public to release the tests. In the case of the other folks that are supposedly testing, they are using public tax dollars or shareholder money.

Until they take the lead and become transparent the natural assumption is that they are hiding something...

Actually the first approach is for Ms Morton to live up to her own standards of transparency.  Saying it was "private money" is a cop-out and a poor excuse.  If she is going to make conclusions based on those test results and publicize them in the press and on her blog, criticizing the fish farms, then she has a responsibility as a RPBio to be more forthcoming herself.  In my opinion, she is not just a regular citizen that can hide her data or results from the labs she uses when she makes these claims.  It's funny that Ms Morton is championing the right for the public to know about what data the fish farms have, but seems to be unwilling to trust the public herself.  It has actually backfired on Ms Morton because it makes her look she is hiding something.  Time for her to show some leadership.  Instead, she ran away from the thread she started on the topic on SSBC and never returned to respond to some fair questions.  Some leadership on her part.  If the latest results (on reoviruses and alphaviruses) support what Ms Morton is claiming then she should have no problem releasing them to the public.  Find anything more on IHN, AF? 
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2012, 11:14:13 AM »

  In my opinion, she is not just a regular citizen that can hide her data or results from the labs she uses when she makes these claims.  It's funny that Ms Morton is championing the right for the public to know about what data the fish farms have, but seems to be unwilling to trust the public herself.  It has actually backfired on Ms Morton because it makes her look she is hiding something. 

It's always been obvious what your opinion is with regards to Morton. While that matters to you and probably most of your pro-feedlot buddies, it matters nothing to the general public.

You and I can argue forever and it won't change anything about the feedlots staying in the ocean. However when it comes to the public, they will always support the little guy who is attempting to protect the environment. While government and the feedlots are working hard to hide the risks of both farming in ocean pens and eating the feedlot product, Morton is working hard to make the public aware of the risks. Without folks like Morton, corporations would do whatever they wanted.....  they have no conscience.

In the end the public alone will decide the fate of the feedlots, by buying the product...... or not.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Another Fisih Farm Problem
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2012, 12:03:21 AM »

It's always been obvious what your opinion is with regards to Morton. While that matters to you and probably most of your pro-feedlot buddies, it matters nothing to the general public.

You and I can argue forever and it won't change anything about the feedlots staying in the ocean. However when it comes to the public, they will always support the little guy who is attempting to protect the environment. While government and the feedlots are working hard to hide the risks of both farming in ocean pens and eating the feedlot product, Morton is working hard to make the public aware of the risks. Without folks like Morton, corporations would do whatever they wanted.....  they have no conscience.

In the end the public alone will decide the fate of the feedlots, by buying the product...... or not.
Well….I would think it would be obvious because I never tried to hide it.  I agree that when it comes down to it many people do not really care whether Ms Morton releases these lab results or not.  They are likely more concerned about whether they are going to make their mortgage payment or passing that slow vehicle on the highway on their way to the lake; however, for those that follow this more closely than others it is important.

I think it depends who the listening audience is.  Some people are more actively involved in this issue while others are just indifferent to fisheries in general.  Some people might have more of appreciation of the actual science and would like to see the actual data or report themselves while others rather have someone else do the interpretation.  Some like to ask questions of those making the conclusions while others rather have someone else do it or have that information delivered to them through a filtered source.  If people are concerned about transparency in science then they should try to see this objectively (pro or con) and ask themselves if Ms Morton actions are what you would expect from a professional biologist.  If Morton is confident about her conclusions from these lab results then it should be no problem.  Morton has constantly criticized government labs as being inferior and claimed that the the non-governmental labs she has endorsed are far superior.  If this is indeed the case I am surprised she would not take this opportunity to show the results.  However, in my opinion, she knows there is a public relations problem for her if she shows them.  This was the case with the Superstore and T&T Supermarket test results where the results clearly did not fit the conclusions.  Because of this, I believe the lab she is using might be expressing this concern to her.

The only one to really clear this up and explain the real reason is Ms Morton herself.  She had numerous opportunities on the thread she started on SSBC to address these questions about these lab results.  Instead, people like Chris and you are left to defend her decision in this matter on internet forums as to why this has not been released.  To me, this is wrong and unbecoming of a professional biologist who is supposed to be making the public aware.  She should be standing by her results and fielding the questions instead of having someone else doing it for her.  It is also quite telling and should be a red flag to those that believe that Ms Morton is being totally forthcoming.

People may not take a great interest in these lab results; however, I believe that many in the general public are growing tired of Ms Morton’s actions also and not following her as closely as before.  I do not think it is just one-sided.  Ms Morton is hardly in the mainstream media anymore.  If people did not follow the blogs on the internet they would likely never know much about what she is doing or finding.  A Chihuahua stuck in a storm drain likely gets more attention in the news than Ms Morton does; however, fisheries in general does not seem to be in the minds of the public these days unless you are directly involved in it.

I do agree that the “little guy” is seen in much better light than governments or industry these days (includes Enbridge…lol), but if people look critically at what Ms Morton says and does they will see that even the “little guy” needs to be held accountable….and lead by example if they believe the other side is not.

I realize that governments do not always make the right decisions or see what some members of the general public see; however, Morton has created this myth that governments and fish farms are working hard to hide the risks of ocean pens or the product itself.  If you look at what has been provided to the public before (i.e. provincial annual reports…like the one I posted before) and during the Cohen Commission it was very extensive – involving many hours of searching databases, emails, documents, and studies.  Perhaps you should make yourself more familiar with the current Federal regulations that apply to the industry before making such a bold statement.  If you did, you will find that government employees are not working hard to hide anything.  Right now, the only one working hard to hide anything is Ms Morton.

Recently, it seems like some environmental activists do not have to follow this transparency because they should be seen as more trusted than those “evil governments” and “money-hungry industries”.  However, the motivation to gain public opinion goes both ways.  It is not just government or industry that does it.  I believe it is naïve to think that ENGOs and other independent activists are not trying to put their best foot forward in these situations and do their own manipulation.  In my opinion, this is a slippery slope for those activists like Ms Morton and will affect her credibility; if not with the public right away it will be with her peers in the scientific community who like to see the published results.

As for the public buying the product…..I believe they will continue buying the product (much of it likely exported), but the long term viability of the industry in BC will likely depend more on economic competitiveness with other countries raising the same product rather than the fear mongering that is currently being used by activists.
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