Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?  (Read 23872 times)

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2012, 03:07:31 PM »

Quote
This study confirms that the Atlantics eat wild fish and that lights attract plankton which in turn attracts wild fish.

I think I agree that more work could be done on the issue.  While one fish out of 600 was found in a farm fish it does indicate exactly how that fish got there.  I agree that the study should have more of a random selection but I also feel that it proves that the farms are not profiting from having lights in the water to steal feed from the ocean.  In other words it is a good start and basically shows that the farm fish are not gorging or even snacking on wild feed.That is just another thing you heard or made up to empower your campain.  There is alot more information in that study than you wish to acknowledge.

As for the study you posted,  I think absolun has some good points on that:

Quote
There is no mention of the presence of wild salmon let alone an increased presence of them as a consequence of the lights. One would expect that given the salmon are the particular subject of concern, any presence of them would certainly warrant a mention. Further, the summary suggests that there was no research into the effects of that increased presence and the lack of information on experimental methods means there is no way to tell if the experiment was designed to replicate actual conditions.

Consequently, your conclusions don't follow from the research and from the summary published,  don't match those of the authors.

If saving one needle fish out for every 600 farm salmon is that important than we have our work cut out for us for I am certain that there are many other knee jerk reactions we could perform to save even more.
Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2012, 03:22:49 PM »


As for the study you posted,  I think absolun has some good points on that:

If saving one needle fish out for every 600 farm salmon is that important than we have our work cut out for us for I am certain that there are many other knee jerk reactions we could perform to save even more.

Sometimes you need to read what isn't in a report in order to reach your conclusions. Like Absolon, you fail to consider that the tests in that study were taken at times that the salmon fry had likely finished their migration past the test sites.

To not take that into consideration and then draw the conclusion that the lights don't attract salmonoids is I think you would agree, ridiculous.
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2012, 03:27:37 PM »

Quote
Sometimes you need to read what isn't in a report in order to reach your conclusions. Like Absolon, you fail to consider that the tests in that study were taken at times that the salmon fry had likely finished their migration past the test sites.

You may have your short moment of belittling glory but I am pretty sure you are completely incorrect on that statement.
Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2012, 03:35:06 PM »

My experience from cutthroat fishing in the salt chuck shows there is lots of fry from march through may and this study starts on day 129 of the year so if you look at that first month of sampling its a start. Like I said before I agree that the study could be better but it is a good start.  If the farm fish were gorging on fry like you dare to dream about then you would think that they would find at least one or even a smolt of some kind or a herring.  But there is none to be found.  I think your trying to make cookies with dog cupcakes here and it isn't going to work. ;D
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 03:36:47 PM by aquapaloosa »
Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2012, 04:04:35 PM »

My experience from cutthroat fishing in the salt chuck shows there is lots of fry from march through may and this study starts on day 129 of the year so if you look at that first month of sampling its a start. Like I said before I agree that the study could be better but it is a good start.  If the farm fish were gorging on fry like you dare to dream about then you would think that they would find at least one or even a smolt of some kind or a herring.  But there is none to be found.  I think your trying to make cookies with dog **** here and it isn't going to work. ;D

Here is my response to absolon's  earlier comment.

Still refusing to use a little logic......

The fact that they did not catch any salmonoids in the net only proves there were none in the area at the time the tests were taken.

The study was conducted near Gilford Island which is well away from any salmon migratory route and because the time period was between early February and the middle of April there wouldn't have been any sockeye present as they don't normally start migrating till May.

Admit it, your argument that no salmonoids were caught, and suggesting that proves that feedlot lights don't attract wild salmonoids, is one of the silliest arguments you've ever put forward....   ::)  ::)

What I provided was a summary of the actual scientific study. Why don't you read the entire 10 page report before commenting any further....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=30772.0#quickreply
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2012, 04:19:00 PM »

I am not familiar with that area but surely there would be some fry of some kind.Not even some chum fry?Sometimes you need to read what isn't in a report in order to reach your conclusions. so those farm are in perfect locations? ;D
Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2012, 04:56:33 PM »

...... so those farm are in perfect locations? ;D

No ........  a perfect location would be on dry land.
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2012, 05:07:37 PM »

Well, we have discussed that EXTENSIVELY so lets not go there again. You know thats not going to happen.  But it did serve as an opportunity for you to provide the public with another idea that is not actually possible.  Hey they do not know any better so why not continue to mislead them.

Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2012, 05:14:19 PM »

Well, we have discussed that EXTENSIVELY so lets not go there again. You know thats not going to happen.  But it did serve as an opportunity for you to provide the public with another idea that is not actually possible.  Hey they do not know any better so why not continue to mislead them.


Why don't I just get you to write all my posts....... ???   that way you will agree with everything I post.  ::)
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

absolon

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 557
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2012, 10:54:04 PM »

Here is my response to absolon's  earlier comment.

Quote
Quote from: alwaysfishn on August 01, 2012, 10:04:05 PM
Still refusing to use a little logic......

The fact that they did not catch any salmonoids in the net only proves there were none in the area at the time the tests were taken.

The study was conducted near Gilford Island which is well away from any salmon migratory route and because the time period was between early February and the middle of April there wouldn't have been any sockeye present as they don't normally start migrating till May.

Admit it, your argument that no salmonoids were caught, and suggesting that proves that feedlot lights don't attract wild salmonoids, is one of the silliest arguments you've ever put forward....   Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

What I provided was a summary of the actual scientific study. Why don't you read the entire 10 page report before commenting any further....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=30772.0#quickreply

The obvious question would be to ask why you posted the study in the first place. As you've suggested yourself, the study conditions bear no relationship to the environment around a farm. In fact, the authors even caution about drawing any conclusions about farms based on their work and I specifically pointed that out to you. In that same post, I also pointed out that the authors (and not myself as you are dishonestly claiming is the case, a tactic you use with great frequency) suggested that statistically insignificant numbers of salmon were found and also that both Pinks and Chum have an aversion to abnormal conditions.

In fact, nothing you have presented is related to what that study says or has any basis in any fact. You've commented several times about reading the study. I would suggest to you that is only part of the battle. The next and a more important step is understanding what it is saying, something you clearly haven't managed to accomplish. The final step is the development of a reasonable interpretation of what the study means. Obviously, if you don't understand what you've read, the result will be the sort of nonsense you've presented here where you try to convince people that the study actually infers a conclusion diametrically opposite to the authors' own stated conclusions.

On the other hand, the manuscript aquapaloosa supplied is considerably more relevant and it's observation that one small non-salmonid was all that was found in the stomach contents of some 500 or so farm fish suggests you are just blowing your usual smoke with your attempts to rationalize and reconcile that result with the nonsense you are trying to promote.  I would suggest you stop digging and instead man up and deal with the question Shuswapsteve posed about the source of the IHN infection in the other thread. It is obvious you've seen it; you were rudely dismissive of any real facts and now you are running and hiding from a perfectly reasonable request to back up your statements with something other than your imagination and your usual technique of bluster and my smelly socks.


« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 11:09:09 PM by absolon »
Logged

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2012, 11:16:00 PM »

Good to see you back and ranting again....  Of course I expect you to only accept any information that you think supports feedlots and reject those that don't support them.

You need to be mindful that belittling me does nothing to support your argument and actually takes away from it.

........ I can't believe I'm actually trying to help you with the presentation of your pro feedlot agenda.   ???
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

absolon

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 557
Re: Salmon Feedlots using night lights to attract wild fish?
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2012, 11:23:28 PM »

Bluster and my smelly socks
Logged