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[zabber]

Would love to hear an honest report from you Zabber! How the fishing was using a float on the Fraser.

Actually, I went up last Sunday and think I may have had a bite. The guy I was fishing with swears he had one on for a few seconds, on his second cast, but drag was loose and it shook the hook. Both could have been snags but he's seasoned so I believe him. There were sockeye moving in to spawn so may have been a cuttie vs. a spring??...

In any case, heading out tomorrow morning so will let you know.

Again, I've heard good things. In fact, another poster was praising this effectiveness of this method of fishing in this very thread.

*fingers crossed*

[Bently]

I just got a call from a  cousin of mine who went seining with a FN. They caught 300 sockeye and sold them without problem for  $3000 in a day. Another friend of theirs made $30,000 in one day. And we are talking about fish that are being RELEASED caught by  B.B. What a joke.

First Nations doing what ever with fish is a totally different issue all together.  Quit using it as a crutch to do your snagging.

It's fishermen {if you can call yourself one } like you that give the "sport" a bad name. Time to quit acting so hard done by and do what's right, or is catching a fish by way of BBing that important to you ?

You want pics and all that, take a look here, it has everything you need or want to see/hear.

http://bentrods.ca/contact-us

[fishyfish]

"Quit using it as a crutch to do your snagging. "



Bottom bouncing and snagging are two different things. Bottom bouncing ( although not advised at this time) is completely legal. Snagging is not. I use a single barbless hook. I believe "snagging"is what the FN do with a large treble hook weighted with lead wrapped around the hook. They let it sink to the bottom and pull hard while reeling in.  I am a fishermen. I love to fish. I do all kinds of fishing including bottom bouncing on the Fraser. I release a fish that is not caught in and around the mouth as required by law. I keep fish that I am legally allowed to take.  Lots of "fishermen" catch fish bottom bouncing when the situation requires it.  I use a gang troll on a lake and a float and pencil lead on the vedder. I fish for fun and as a sport and I resent you saying I give the sport a bad name.

[poper]

There is no law saying you cant BB,so until then people are going to do it, so no more crying.

[fishyfish]

"Bottom bouncing on the Fraser is the white mans way of snagging since the fish aren't biting and have NO CLUE that a hook is about to lodge/SNAG in the side {or close to} it's mouth"

How the hell do you really know what goes on 20 ft. under the water in the Fraser river. The hook is in the same spot of the mouth when I catch them in the Fraser as was the fish I caught in Osoyoos using a downrigger flasher and a hoochie. You have nothing but your assumption. Your perception may or may or may not be right. Once again your perception of bottom bouncing being snagging is only your opinion ( and others). Even if the fish don't bite like I am sure you think all of the fish you catch do, what is the difference if a fish is landed with a hook in its mouth. Does it really make if a difference if the fish lying dead at the bottom of your boat struck out of anger or not. Does it make it any difference that your fish was angry and struck your lure.   I don't know if you will agree or not but the fish are not feeding on your lures, they are striking out of anger.   In my opinion the experience and final result are the same. The fish I catch have a hook in their mouth as do yours. Although I don't really know for sure the water I see in your videos is very conducive to using lures. You have a large boat and get to spots that are more conducive to lure fishing. I don't think a lure or any of the other methods suggested by the DFO will be productive at the scale bar. I know how I can catch fish at the scale bar. It is productive. I don't have the time like maybe you do to go to different spots to try a different type of fishing. If I am suggested a particular spot that I can get to without a boat that I can productively catch fish at using the methods you want me to use then fire away. Guides are usually reluctant to talk about their spots. I fish at the scale bar and I bottom bounce.

[zabber]

The hook is in the same spot of the mouth when I catch them in the Fraser as was the fish I caught in Osoyoos using a downrigger flasher and a hoochie.

Either you haven't been bb'ing long and/or have been exceptionally lucky, or you're full of my smelly socks. My money is on the latter. I've reeled in close to 100 sox in the few times I've been out bb'ing and half were hooked in the right side of the head at Scale Bar (strongly suggesting they were lined). The statistics from a recent study are even higher than that (83%?).

I release a fish that is not caught in and around the mouth as required by law.

FYI, a fish hooked AROUND the mouth is foul-hooked. A fish hooked anywhere but IN the mouth is snagged. It is illegal to retain foul-hooked/snagged fish (i.e. those hooked around the mouth).

Once again your perception of bottom bouncing being snagging is only your opinion ( and others).

Yes, faulty opinion. See previous posts as to why bb'ing is not technically snagging, as long as there is no intent to hook the fish anywhere other than inside the mouth.

I don't have the time ... to go to different spots to try a different type of fishing. If I am suggested a particular spot that I can get to without a boat that I can productively catch fish at using the methods you want me to use then fire away. Guides are usually reluctant to talk about their spots. I fish at the scale bar and I bottom bounce.

I too pity you. Your reluctance to better yourself as an angler and individual is saddening.

[zabber]

What is more ethical having a fish strike out of anger or actually feeding on a presentation. Maybe you should be using worms and roe because then the fish will feed instead of being angry.

In both cases you're bringing out some sort of instinct, whether that be territorial/aggresion or feeding. When flossing you're simply attempting to hook the animal in the mouth without eliciting any sort of instinct from it. It's generally accepted that enticing a fish to strike a presentation is more ethical or "sporting" than attempting to simply hook the animal.

FYI, there was an article in The Province about a decade ago that reported that scientists have discovered that fish don't feel pain the way you and I do. I suspect similar studies were done because Kurt Cobain sang "it's okay to eat fish 'cuz they don't have any feelings;" fish probably don't get angry.

[LP89CG]

Besides BB'ing, how would you target SOX on the fraser?

Thnx

[zabber]

Besides BB'ing, how would you target SOX on the fraser?

Thnx

Bently got one on a bar rig

[Bently]

Bently got one on a bar rig

This is true,



I will add this, if you get perturbed being called a clown or a wanker, then I apologize,it was wrong on my part to do so, sorry if I hurt anyone's little feelings.

[Athezone]

Apology accepted, thank you Bentley. Very classy of you !!!!

[alwaysfishn]

FYI, a fish hooked AROUND the mouth is foul-hooked. A fish hooked anywhere but IN the mouth is snagged. It is illegal to retain foul-hooked/snagged fish (i.e. those hooked around the mouth).

Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."

It does not say the fish must be hooked "inside" the mouth. While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth...  While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.

My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...

[Bently]

Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."

It does not say the fish must be hooked "inside" the mouth. While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth...  While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.

My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...

While I agree with the CO's and your interpretation, people must understand that when a fish is "lined" it is "intentionally snagged" as the fish has no idea it's about to have a hook lodged into it's mouth "area".

For people who think differently, I think it's only a matter of time before they fall off the cloud their on.

[alwaysfishn]

While I agree with the CO's and your interpretation, people must understand that when a fish is "lined" it is "intentionally snagged" as the fish has no idea it's about to have a hook lodged into it's mouth "area".

For people who think differently, I think it's only a matter of time before they fall off the cloud their on.

However the question has to be asked....  If a sockeye is by definition "intentionally snagged" why doesn't fisheries write tickets for it?   Intentional snagging is illegal after all.

Edit: While I don't approve of harassing migrating sockeye that you are not allowed to keep, I disagree that BB is intentionally snagging. To intentionally snag a fish, I believe you need to be able to see it and be attempting to hook it anywhere other than the mouth. While I'm not a lawyer, I think it would be difficult to convict someone of snagging a fish that they couldn't see. A fish that bites a hook probably has no idea it is about to bite a hook either..... 

[Bently]

However the question has to be asked....  If a sockeye is by definition "intentionally snagged" why doesn't fisheries write tickets for it?   Intentional snagging is illegal after all.

Edit: While I don't approve of harassing migrating sockeye that you are not allowed to keep, I disagree that BB is intentionally snagging. To intentionally snag a fish, I believe you need to be able to see it and be attempting to hook it anywhere other than the mouth. While I'm not a lawyer, I think it would be difficult to convict someone of snagging a fish that they couldn't see. A fish that bites a hook probably has no idea it is about to bite a hook either.....  

If the water was clear do you think the flossers would be chucking their rigs just anywhere or would they be getting their long leaders in position to "line" one ??