Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Stamp Springs  (Read 6253 times)

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2009, 02:35:28 PM »

IN--Jeffrey Till who's the DFO Co-ordinator of the Stamp/Somass Indicator program has different numbers showing surplus fish in the system ---How do you explain that ? Check out his web site @ jeffrey.till@dfo-mpo.gc.ca---for counts as of Sep 20/2009---- Cheers ???

The link you posted is an Email to Jeff, not a site?

The lastest DFO release suggests NOTHING in the way of "surplus". If you have anything beyond the latest listing (below) I would be MORE than interested...

1,836 SPRINGS and Counting

Latest data from Somass River Escapement Bulletin
Observations to Sept 20, 2009

OBSERVATIONS:
Stamp falls counting facility has been operational since Sept 3. During the past 5 days chinook adult numbers have ranged from 65 to 176. Coho adults have ranged from 1471 to 2071 and Sockeye adults
have ranged from 723 to 1571.

Total escapement to Sept 20 is ~~~1,836 Chinook~~~~, 22,374 Coho and 184,139 Sockeye. Sockeye escapement to Sproat Lake is estimated at 144,742 adults up to Sept 8. No additional data is available at present.

Stamp Falls counting operation has been closed for short periods during equipment repairs but otherwise has been fully operational.

River flows are relatively low for this time of year. River temperature is still 16-17C.

The escapement goal is 33,000.

We AIN"T gonna see anywhere near that!  ::)

Good numbers of coho thus far. Springs... DISMAL!!
For the sake of Their future, ENJOY the coho, but PLEASE release the springs!

Wondering...
Nog
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 12:55:59 PM »

Reprinted from another Forum (with permission of course):

Summer Steel's response to the query: Maybe someone can explain how they got an increase indicator for 57000 Chinooks from 47000 and how we only have less than 2000 now?

Easy, it's called PFS, political fish science. At 47,000, there is simply no commercial TAC under this years plan to place more naturally spawning fish on the grounds. Since DFO can't go against their own numbers, they need to find a way to increase the run size, at least on paper, to justify an opening. This is done by taking scale samples from the commercial openings in Nootka Sound. Amazingly, they find that there are significantly more Conuma chinook than first thought, ergo there MUST be more Somass chinook as well. Plus the scale samples from DEAD Somass fish they have just harvested MUST mean the run is bigger than they first said it was. Sounds like solid science to up the return by 10,000  ::) , coincidentely, just enough to allow a 7000 piece commercial harvest. This, together with the FN "food" & economic opportunity fisheries taking at least another 7000 fish, ( most likely more due to some slick counting methods at the processors ), leads to the early part of the return being devastated. Why try so hard to justify a commercial opening?? Follow the money. The fishing industry is comprised of three components, harvest, process, & sale. Any person involved in just one of these components can no longer make a living doing it. Ask IronNoggin how much any of the area G trollers made this year, how many of them need a second job just to make ends meet nowadays. Talk to a seasonal fish plant worker & see how their retirement package is shaping up, or go see a part time grocery clerk & ask them if they worked more than 20 hours this week. Now, find the guy who has his fingers in all three pies. He is getting a cut from every part of the business, so life is good for him.The only thing he needs is for there to be enough fish to justify the openings. Whether those fish exist or not is besides the point, as long as there can be some harvest, there will be money to be made. Now, you can bet your last salmon that these decisions are coming from back east. The lobbyists are in place to remind the Gov. officials of where their campaign funds came from & what is expected in return.Until this entire backroom process is dragged out into the light, perhaps under a Judicial review, nothing is going to change. Lets face it, no reasonable people would make the types of decisions we are seeing now unless there was another agenda in play. Managing a fishery isn't rocket science. You look at the best available science, wait until the fish actually show up, put numbers on the spawning grounds FIRST, & always, always err on the side of the fish. It can't possibly be continuously done so poorly year after year without anyone ever losing their jobs unless there was something else at work.

Now if we do the math, that is roughly 14,000 fish gone, so where are the other 43,000 fish?? ( That is supposing that those 10,000 "extra" fish existed in the first place ) Well, if you listen to our friends at DFO, 31,000 fish have been caught by sport anglers so far this year on the WCVI. While that number may indeed be somewhat accurate, what it fails to mention is, that is the TOTAL chinook catch so far this year, NOT the Somass fish we are talking about here. That number includes ALL the chinook caught from May until present, with most of those being offshore southbound fish ( Thanks Yanks ) The Somass chinook don't start showing up inshore in any numbers in Barclay Sound until August. I highly doubt the sports fishery with its one over one under rule made that much of an impact on these fish. So, that begs the questions: Where are they? Where did they go? Are they still coming? Were they ever there? Only time will give us some of the answers, lets just hope they are the answers we are looking for.

One last note, as others have already expressed here, please try not to harvest any chinooks right now, especially the big ones. I know it is open & it's legal, but please, if you feel you absolutely HAVE to kill one, please consider taking one of the many, many 3-6lb jacks that are everywhere right now. These fish are rather easy to catch with roe & IMHO are much better eating than the big ones anyways.

MOST Excellent synopsis of this year's situation I've seen yet.  :)

Cheers,
Nog
Logged

Stratocaster

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 01:31:20 PM »

Thanks for the info Nog,  very informative post.  Is it true that DFO tried to imply that the 31,000 fish caught by sporties on WCVI were stamp fish?  If that's the case, then its pretty sick if you ask me.  Frankly, I'm not sure what we can do about this.  The rec sector is too fragmented to band together for a collective force (unlike the commies where lobbying power is concentrated amongst a few).  Its not that we are not willing to participate or work to get this turned around, its just that nobody feels they can get any results and that the feds will do what they want to benefit themselves, hence the apathy. 

Through my former job, I had an opportunity to fish with Rick Hansen for Sturgeon on the Fraser a few years ago.  He told me his ultimate goal (as a chairman on the Pacific Salmon Endowment Fund Society and Fraser River Sturgeon Society) would be to eliminate all gill netting on the Fraser. I'm not sure how far along he is on this goal but he does have lots of clout to get his voice heard.  Maybe this is something we need, someone well known to uncover what's going on. 
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2009, 01:20:25 PM »

Just a bump. Keeping the situation to the front. Please let the springs GO in the Stamp!

Cheers,
Nog
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2009, 06:40:39 PM »

Finally!
The Stamp River will CLOSE to the retention of springs tomorrow at midnight. There will also be area closures to ensure the few that did make it home are left alone.

Too Little Too Late. But at least they finally woke up!  ::)

Nog
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2009, 01:06:49 PM »

RECREATIONAL - Salmon,
RECREATIONAL - Fin Fish (Other than Salmon)

Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Subject: FN0787-RECREATIONAL - Salmon: Somass Chinook Recreational Closure and increase in Coho daily limit
[/u]

Chinook escapement to the Somass and Stamp Rivers is substantially below the
2009 goal and management action is required to protect Somass chinook to meet
hatchery brood stock and spawning requirements. In consultation with Area 23
Sport Fishing Advisory Committee advisors and local First Nations, it was
agreed that current fishing pressure on chinook salmon holding in the rivers
should be reduced.

Coho escapement to the Somass River is stronger than pre-season expectations,
providing an opportunity for increased recreational access.

Effective immediately to 23:59 hours October 31, 2009 the following will take
place for chinook salmon:

- Chinook non-retention will be in effect in the non-tidal portion of the
Somass River and in the Stamp River,
- The tidal portion of the Somass River will close to recreational fin fishing
as described below:
That portion of the Somass River from the tidal boundary at Paper Mill Dam
seaward to a line commencing at a boundary sign in upper Alberni Harbour
situated at 49°14.19 north latitude and 124°50.23 west longitude then through
the southern most point of Hoik Island then to the flashing green light at the
mouth of the Somass River then due east to a boundary sign on the opposite
shore.

Effective immediately to 23:59 hours December 31, 2009 the daily limit for coho
salmon in the open areas of the Stamp and Somass Rivers will increase from two
(2) to four (4) per day, either hatchery marked or unmarked.
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2009, 01:47:02 PM »

8138 and counting

Somass River Escapement Bulletin
Observations to Oct 13, 2009

OBSERVATIONS: During the past 9 days at Stamp Falls Chinook adult numbers have ranged from 154 to 677. Coho adults have ranged from 357 to 2017 and Sockeye adults have ranged from 1 to 27. Total escapement is ~~~8,138 Chinook~~~~, 56,336 Coho and 185,488 Sockeye. Sockeye escapement to Sproat Lake is estimated at 144,742 adults up to Sept 8. Additional data is available but requires some vetting.
Stamp Falls counting operation has been fully operational.
River flows have increased over the past few days and have contributed to the improved chinook migration. River temperature is currently unknown.

And with that, hatchery requirements are close to being met. No wild spawn of course. And rumor has it The Dino is suggesting all is as it should be...  ::)

To those MORONS that continue to whack springs in this system, a Warning. We ARE watching, and we won't be calling it in (and You know EXACTLY what I mean!)
 >:(

Nog
Logged

TrophyHunter

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2143
  • V.P. Club S.C. & P. & S.C. & F. Team Hop Sing
    • BB Pics
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2009, 04:13:11 PM »

Hey Nog, off topic but I was wondering if you recieved an e-mail from me a while ago... my email addy is
ricks_honda@hotmail.com

hoping to get out with you on a charter next year for myself and a couple of buddies, can you send me an e-mail so we can discuss this further

cheers Rick Lewis
Logged


...oooO..............
...(....).....Oooo...
....\..(.......(...)....
.....\_).......)../.....
...............(_/......
... RICK WAS ......
....... HERE..........


XG Flosses with his Spey !!

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Stamp Springs
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2009, 12:01:23 PM »

Email incoming TrophyHunter.  ;D

Cheers,
Nog
Logged