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[Geff_t]

Here is an example of fly fishing for sockeye on the fraser river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaCdVoOUsK8

  No it is not me.

[Trout Slayer]

I remember in 2007 catching 50/50 pinks and sockeye on the fly at grassy.

[Rodney]

When the regulation "no fishing" for a species is implemented, anglers are required to demonstrate that they are not targeting them. If fishery officers observe an angler catching a species that is closed for fishing repeatedly, then the angler maybe warned or fined.

If an angler is barfishing and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

If an angler is flyfishing and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

If an angler is lure fishing and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

If an angler is backtrolling and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

If an angler is bait fishing and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

If an angler is bottom bouncing and catching and releasing sockeye salmon repeatedly, then he or she is required to stop and find an alternative method.

Similar management measures are found in many other Lower Mainland fisheries. During the Interior coho salmon and steelhead migration period, a bait ban is implemented in the Tidal Fraser River instead of implementing a total salmon fishing closure during a pink salmon year. Bait fishing with roe is recognized as an effective technique for coho salmon in the Tidal Fraser River and mortality rate of bait-caught coho salmon that are released has been studied in the mid 90s. The study determined possible impacts by anglers, so bait ban becomes an option. The pink salmon fishery was once closed for a couple of season during this period, but thanks to the Sportfishing Advisory Committee, a bait ban is used instead so anglers can still allowed to fish for other species of salmon. During the bait ban period, anglers can still enjoy fishing for pink salmon by other methods such as lure fishing and flyfishing without intercepting too many interior coho salmon or steelhead.

This is not an issue of barfishing vs bottom bouncing, as the same participants of both sides continue to believe. It is an issue of minimizing the by-capture of a species that is closed for targeting. The technique bottom bouncing was mentioned in the fishery notice because overtime the frequency of by-catch is the highest when it is used. Instead of having the entire river closed for fishing as First Nation advocates have asked for, Fisheries and Oceans Canada chooses not to be pressured and keep recreational salmon fishery available by a very simple request, acknowledging that there are many other fishing methods that can be enjoyed without intercepting too many sockeye salmon. Consider it a favour and don't bite the hands that feed you.

[Steelhead King]

Whatever the DFO said is a big pile of crap.  They conducted a study last season reguarding the sockeye motality rate caught by BB method.. the result came to 0.05%. If the report is true, why is BB is harmful??  Based on other studies, bait fishing for salmon had a way higher motality rate..  So it should be ban baitfishing over all not BBouncing.   Back to the First Nation BS..  I don't care what they said, but i personally there witness twice in 2 different time period, some First Nation drift their nets across the bar on the Fraser late at night. And i can clearly hear the fish flopping inside the boat when the net is up in the boat.   As long as those drift net still sweeping the bar late at night, they have no F-ing right to tell me what method i can or cannot use fishing the Fraser. 

[Rodney]

Whatever the DFO said is a big pile of crap.  They conducted a study last season reguarding the sockeye motality rate caught by BB method.. the result came to 0.05%. If the report is true, why is BB is harmful??  Based on other studies, bait fishing for salmon had a way higher motality rate..  So it should be ban baitfishing over all not BBouncing.   Back to the First Nation BS..  I don't care what they said, but i personally there witness twice in 2 different time period, some First Nation drift their nets across the bar on the Fraser late at night. And i can clearly hear the fish flopping inside the boat when the net is up in the boat.   As long as those drift net still sweeping the bar late at night, they have no F-ing right to tell me what method i can or cannot use fishing the Fraser. 

Have fun BBing tomorrow. Do it while you can I guess.

[ion]

Now, where is the border between bottom bouncing, flyfishing and by-rules fishing?
Let say i use a 3/4 jig dressed like a Christmas tree, is that bottom bouncing with a fly? Flyfishing with a weight? Pulling a plug?
If i attach a sliding float, is that float fishing?

And if you report something to dfo, let say some guys fishing with nets for sockeye are trying to sell something to you, how can you follow up to see what dfo does in the matter?

[Rodney]

Now, where is the border between bottom bouncing, flyfishing and by-rules fishing?
Let say i use a 3/4 jig dressed like a Christmas tree, is that bottom bouncing with a fly? Flyfishing with a weight? Pulling a plug?
If i attach a sliding float, is that float fishing?

There are no techniques being prohibited in the changes this week. If you wish to bottom bounce during this management measure, then feel free to do so like many will continue to do. The objective is to minimize interception of sockeye salmon. If you feel that your technique is not intercepting any or too many sockeye salmon, then go for it. If you feel that your technique encounters many sockeye salmon but believe that their mortality is low when released, then go for it.

If you're fishing with a 3/4 jig, it's called jig fishing. If you are jigging and encountering too many sockeye salmon, it's probably a good idea to stop and try something else.

If you are flyfishing with a weight, it's called flyfishing. If you are flyfishing and encountering too many sockeye salmon, it's probably a good idea to stop and try something else.

If you are fishing with a sliding float, it's called float fishing. If you are float fishing and encountering too many sockeye salmon, it's probably a good idea to stop and try something else.

Stop fabricating concerns and pretending to be confused by what DFO's definition of bottom bouncing is when one is fully aware of what DFO wants anglers to do. It's childish and embarrasing when anglers choose to be managed when opportunities to work as river stewards are widely available.

As I mentioned in a different thread, there's no point to keep attempting to convince others to stop bottom bouncing. Those who wish to do it after all the information is given, will continue to do it and feel good about it. At the same time, there's no point to keep justifying bottom bouncing if you wish to keep doing it, those who agree with you already do, those who do not agree with you will continue to disagree with you. When recreational salmon fishery closes completely because angling incompliance is so high that it becomes a problem for DFO's C&P, then it does not really matter who agrees with who.

And if you report something to dfo, let say some guys fishing with nets for sockeye are trying to sell something to you, how can you follow up to see what dfo does in the matter?

You request for a file number that you can refer to when calling back later to follow up.

[Steelhead King]

Stop fabricating concerns and pretending to be confused by what DFO's definition of bottom bouncing is when one is fully aware of what DFO wants anglers to do. It's childish and embarrasing when anglers choose to be managed when opportunities to work as river stewards are widely available.

As I mentioned in a different thread, there's no point to keep attempting to convince others to stop bottom bouncing. Those who wish to do it after all the information is given, will continue to do it and feel good about it. At the same time, there's no point to keep justifying bottom bouncing if you wish to keep doing it, those who agree with you already do, those who do not agree with you will continue to disagree with you. When recreational salmon fishery closes completely because angling incompliance is so high that it becomes a problem for DFO's C&P, then it does not really matter who agrees with who.

IF they want to close it, they will just close it...  Dosen't matter if every single person stop bouncing. They will find some other lame excuse to close the river.   

[Rodney]

I guess this is why everyone keeps repeating their opinions in these threads, gets kind of tiring after a couple of times but some seem to have turn it into a hobby.

Again, the concern is not bottom bouncing, but the number of sockeye salmon being caught and released by recreational anglers. If you barfish, lure fish, bait fish, flyfish, bottom bounce and keep catching and releasing sockeye salmon, then you should stop. If you are bottom bouncing and not hooking sockeye, then go for it, nobody is going to stop you, because apparently they will close the river if they want to.

Unfortunately, Steelhead King's opinion and distrust of Fisheries and Oceans Canada is widely shared among majority of the angling community, which is its achilles heel. If only more people would get involved by joining an organization that has a representation at the local sportfishing advisory committee. If only more people would be more proactive on finding out more about what dialogues are involved behind the scene between Fisheries and Oceans Canada and sportfishing representatives before decisions are made. If only more people would be more educated on fishery management and less skeptical on regulations set out to protect their fish. If only more people would appreciate the relative high abundance of fish that BC still has while global fish production is expected to collapse in our lifetime. If only more people would stop worrying about what others are doing and understand a small step would lead to big progress. If only. Oh well, nothing wrong with dreaming.

[emac]

Tragedy of the commons - multiple individuals acting independently in their own self-interest can ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen.

If this isn't a classic example of "Tragedy of the Commons" I don't know what is.

Since people are still trying to justify fishing methods that the govt is asking us not to use then the govt will and should take further steps to stop it.  It can be done without a complete closure and for everyones sake I hope we don't see a complete closure.

There is a lot of blame being shifted to FN illegal fishing.  If you were to take an Ethics class this is one of the first dilemmas that would be discussed - "Justify your actions by  shifting the blame on someone else".  Yes, illegal FN fishing is definitely part of the problem.  The govt needs to do a better job at enforcement. 

However, putting the blame on them while continuing to selfishly do your part under the pretense of saying something like "fish caught by rec anglers represents a small percentage compared to FN" makes you no better. 1 fish or a 1,000 fish, it all contributes to the same problem. You are both one in the same.

For those that are interested in becoming leaders and taking steps to solve this problem that were facing I recommend reading The Necessary Revolution by Peter Senge.  Forget the sockeye, eventually there will be no salmon fishing if all parties don't get honest with each other and work together.  That's the only way we're going to "right the ship".

[Steelhawk]

I think it is simple math and logics and in the priority of fish stock conservation, you go after those people and those methods which will take 1000 fish. The 1000 fish taken nightly and repeated will soon wipe out the stock, whereas those with one hook and one rod catching a few socx accidentally with in a low mortality rate after c/r  should not be a priority in stock management. What it comes down to is DFO's tendency to shut down the sporties who is the easiest group to be dictated to. No sporties have ever done road blocks or public demonstrations when they were shut down. We don't get any respect by DFO. 

[ion]

As I understood from an article we have a disaster in the numbers of sockeye;
They expected an increase but happened otherwise;
Unfortunately looks like bb debates make a good smoke drape of to cover the lack of competence;   
From sportfishing such thing can't happen all of a sudden, things would go from bad to worse on a light  slope;
Probably those fish farms have something to do with it, but looks like nobody monitored them;
With all these new technologies and chemicals, i'm wondering, would be possible to prduce the pheromones that resemble
sockeye's native place or give them the illusion of the native place, and chum them somewhere else?

[IronNoggin]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/millions-of-missing-fish-signal-crisis-onthefraserriver/article1249976/

Disastrous situation. Pointing fingers AIN'T gonna bring them back!

IMO, the greed factor has certainly entered the ranks of the recreational sector, and that is exactly what will see the river shut down. Likely much sooner than later methinks.
This continual bickering and blatent ignoring of what is right under these dire circumstances is exactly what The Dino and the FN's can and do count on - we're are ALWAYS good for it and they well know it. Makes me damn near shamed to be labeled as a recreational angler when I'm lumped in with the greedy swine literally lined up at the trough... 

Nog

[salmonlover]

i was watching cbc news today, they said the scientist were expecting a run of 9.5 million sockeyes! I am just wondering how can 9 million fish go missing? hopefully they find a solution and the government of bc gives more funding in perserving all pacific wild salmon.

[arimaBOATER]

Steelhawk ... You throw strikes...in other words "you hit the nail on the head" ---- GOOD LOGIC ! Couldn't agree with ya more. Maybe when there are a total of 1000 fish in the river EVERYBODY will finally be in one accord to do something... Hope it doesn't come to that !!!!