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[marmot]

This is absurd.....

out in garry point park we take the kids kite flying sometimes.  Should they ban kites because occasionally they swoop down and may hit passersby?  And the kite-rider guys....should they not be allowed to have a good time on the off chance that they might lose control and hit a kid?  What about runners?  Maybe people not paying attention when they run could accidentally run over an old ladys prized pomeranian.  It's a multi use park...that's what it is there for.  I hope you guys realize the slippery slope you are standing on with this...

Look, there are idiots everywhere.  If I'm flyfishing in a busy area, which does not happen often AT ALL, I'll use my head and realize I AM the one imposing my pastime on others and act accordingly.  I can stand to wait and watch to make sure there is nobody in my backcast.  I've never met anyone who just flails away without regard for who or what is behind them. 
And, I HAVE been hooked before, but it was by my cousin's rapala, right in the scalp with both trebles, as he was loading up his spinning rod to cast.

[Steelhawk]

When a kite hits you, it will scratch you head a bit. Nothing serious. Even a little bump will heal. You can probably pay for a lawsuit with a month's income if there is one...

But when a fly hook being tossed and rip back and forth at high speed, and hit a victim horizontally, it can litterally rip somebody's eye ball off and you pay with the income of your life time. 

The choice is up to each person to make. No one cares a dime if a careless fisher is bankrupt by an accident except himself and his family, but the fishing public at large will be penalized along with the guilty party when fishing is banned, and the harm done to the victim can be for life too. Perhaps the analogy is closer when a hunter decides to shoot for deers in closed areas near urban centers. He can shoot all he wants if he is ready to pay the fines. But when some unlucky soul gets caught by a strayed bullet, some body is going to work hard for the rest of his life to pay off the debt for sure. 

[marmot]

These are all rhetorical arguments you're putting forth.  Maybe discussions like this are best saved for when something actually happens? 

Pretty funny that you liken flyfishing at a lake to shooting deer near urban centers.... a bit of a stretch, but funny   And don't doubt for a second that you can't get a kite in the eye.  Stranger things have, and do happen every day in this hazardous world we live in

[HOOK]

seriously what are the chances of getting hit in the eye as oppose to the rest of your body? honestly!! the likelyness of getting the hook in the eye is pretty slim. Most people that have been hooked in the eye are usually hooked by THEMSELVES. have i been hooked before, Yes i have, and it was a 3/0 buried in the back of my skull by a friend casting for salmon  and yes i have "almost" hooked myself in the eye.......twice!! once after missing a strike float fishing shallow and the other fly fishing in the wind.

[Rodney]

As absurd as it may seem, resolving conflict between user groups by shutting access to one is probably the most common practice by the managers of public resource. My previous post is not an expression of how I think it should be managed, but to point out the consequences based on my experience in doing consulations with various municipalities. The City's priority is to serve its residents, who have no interests in paying tax to compensate individuals who are hurt on their public properties.

Steelhawk's attempt to bring this issue up is not a shot toward flyfishermen, but rather a reminder of safety that is not always so obvious to anglers, especially those who are just starting out in flyfishing. The same safety precaution also applies to anglers who spin fish, but the likelihood of being hooked from a bakcast while flyfishing is bigger.

Conflicts between recreational groups are common. Trail sharing between horseback riders, mountain bikers and hikers is a classic example of such conflicts. Ten years ago mountain biking is an activity that was in danger being prohibited on mountains in West and North Vancouver due to trail degradation and potential injuries on riders and other users. To ensure that it did not reach that point, the mountain biking community in Vancouver managed to form an organization with active members who are assigned with different duties such as meeting with the City to develop compromises, public education and trail maintenance. The result is a sport that has grown rapidly and healthily. The same can be achieved in sportfishing, but we haven't evolved to that stage yet.

Regarding Garry Poing Park, being hit by kites is indeed a concern for other park users. Being someone who fishes at the park regularly, I have watched close calls and confrontations between kiters and walkers. I'm sure the kiting association is well aware of the problem and has taken steps to address those problems. During pink salmon fishing season, the park is often used by many flyfishermen. I've watched some flyfishermen yelled at other park users for standing too closely or walking by without being aware of the backcast. Although these are in the minority, it paints a poor picture of the sportfishing community. When out fishing, I'd like to think that we are ambassadors of this activity. If someone doesn't seem to be aware of what you are doing, a friendly reminder is the best approach. If someone wants to know why I am fishing in the Fraser River, I'd have no problem spending five minutes letting them know.

British Columbia has vast amount of space and free public access is widely available compared to other parts of the world. This is great but at the same time we develop a sense of entitlement and forget not to take these priveleges for granted. As urban area becomes more congested, we can expect these potential problems to become more frequent. The best way to tackle these would be prevention, not solution because it is often too late once it happens.

[Steelhawk]

Thanks Rodney for the clarification. I by no means try to attack flyfishermen. I am one of them. I have tied hundreds of flies and used them in lakes for trout, salmon like coho, pinks, chums, even springs (at the Big Qualicum). By May I may hop out for the Vedder steelhead with my 9 wt. I am not anti flyfishing. I am only addressing my concern for those Lafarge shore flyfishermen whose backcasts can harm innocent and unsuspecting pedestrians. Yes, nothing may happen. Accidents don't happen all the time, but we know they do happen, and the higher the probability, the more likely it will happen.

When something bad happen, as Rodney suggests, sport fishing can be shut down to prevent further happenings. We are just a minority user group compared to those joggers and walkers who stream through those walkways all day. So if our action proves to be a risk to the majority, then we will be shut down. Why wait till it happens to do something. It will be too late. As Rodney puts it, city can be sued too and they won't want such liability.

If you don't believe what goverment authority will do when something bad happens in fishing, just watch the closure of the meat hole above Stamp Falls. Years back, that spot was filled with fishermen targeting the plentiful springs of the Stamp River. People would line up shoulder to shouder and fish were hooked left & right. Lines crossed, fish lost, arguments erupted, and finally somebody knifed somebody else. After that, closure. I have no idea if it is still closed. But this goes to say, even if fights happen among fishermen and not innocent bystanders, the end result is the same - closure.

So let's do the right thing, to make sure your fishing activity is safe for yourself and for other user groups too. Then we will not have to regret when they stop stocking the lake.

[troutbreath]

One has to remember that fishing with a rod is basically a primordial sport, so it still has some bugs...or flies.

[marmot]

The biggest problem to me is that people cannot seem to share resources without being selfish and inconsiderate.  Like you say Rodney, and it is a good point to make, we should consider ourselves ambassadors of our pastime and act accordingly...not necessarily expect others to stop what they are doing while we infringe upon their own space.

I think it is jumping the gun to up and ban flyfishing in areas where the public may be "at risk" of being lashed by a wooly bugger.  Instead, at those places why not put signs that warn flyfishermen to watch their backcast and be aware that it is a walking trail first and foremost.  I wouldn't put a sign up advising walkers to watch for flies, most of them wouldn't get it    Plus, I believe it would give less "aware" flyfishers to be even more reckless with their casting.

The concept of "user group conflict" exists just about everywhere and permeates almost everything we do on a daily basis.  We're all going to encounter conflict...It is disappointing that before people show basic consideration and work it out themselves, and enjoy resources together, it usually comes to arguments, more conflict, and then some ridiculous regulations put in place to appease the loudest complainers.  *sigh*

[Whitedevil]

No matter fly or bait casting, I will watch my back first...safety no.1 priority.

[Steelhawk]

Way to go. This picture taken today shows that Lafarge is pretty shallow in spots and you can be standing in the middle of the lake feasting on the trouts with flies like the tube guys. Hey, perhaps we manage to convince some forum readers....  This site does have tremendous readership, you know. 

[Lawsch]

That shot was of me in the float tube, and no fish today on the fly, but the spin casters sure were doing well.  Yes, this lake is very shallow and even hip waders for 50 bucks will get you out far enough to back cast safely.  I agree that the fly caster is responsible for the location of his hook at all times.

[Steelhawk]

Yes, the lake has shallow spots. Right now, the water is relatively high already, and yet there are still spots shallow enough to wade all out. There are sections which are as shallow as this shallow ledge off to the left of the newly built platform. In the beach side, from the floating dock to the newly built stairway, it is very shallow. On the east side, in low water, you can actually see exposed flats extending way out and the shoreline there is grassy. These are spots you can wade out safely to backcast. For new fly guys, when you wade out, don't rush the steps, just slowly move out with firm footing before you commit next step. Without current, it should not be an unsafe endeavour if you wade slowly. If still unsure, bring a wading staff to test the water ahead of you. 

[marmot]

Good advice....even without current though be wary of soft spots.  I filled my waders a few years back ( with water ) in a very slow flow because the bottom changed from sand to silt and in I went.  You can get wading staffs (sold as collapsable walking sticks) at MEC for much cheaper than a "fishing" wading staff....they are pretty much the same thing.

[Steelhawk]

Today I dropped by the lake for a walk. I could not believe the sight - a flyfisherman standing about 8 ft from the concrete walkway on the beach side was doing his BLIND backcasts. I mean he literally did not even look back and his fly line was ripping back and forth among crowded evening pedestrians. A lady jogger was not aware of the hazard until she was tooi close and then she had to duck and evade from the flying missiles, and barely missed being caught. I told the guy that he almost caught the lady with his hook. You know what he said? "Good" was the answer. I could not believe such vulgarity and inconsideration displayed. What can be done with such display of arrogance and negligence? It sure spoiled my evening there and I am not sure if some one may eventually get seriously injured by this reckless behaviour.   

[HOOK]

right there is a PERFECT example of someone that is going to ruin it for the rest of us. Ignorant people like that need to be educated further about what could happen with actions like that 

Did you inform him that you also fished/fly fished and what the consequences could be from actions such as his? sometimes just reasoning with someone can change the way they go about things however not always.