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Author Topic: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!  (Read 22734 times)

drh

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2009, 05:25:44 AM »

Sure,give it a shot ,but could it be set up somewhere not in the path migrating juvenile salmon,I guess I'm sounding a bit like a NIMBY,but the decline in stocks bother me a lot more than the meth lab that used to be next door
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Eagleye

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2009, 08:22:09 AM »

Closed containment if done right would not only solve the problem of it's degradation of fish stocks and the environment but it I think it would actually benefit wild salmon by taking some of the harvest quota off them.  As long as the aquaculture industry continues to make imporvements in it's feed to lessen the use of wild species.  If this was to take place farms should be able to sell their product for a higher value because they can label the product as environmentally friendly. 
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Morty

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2009, 12:42:07 PM »

Well firstly Folkboat, I believe this website is named Fishing with Rod, not Farming in pen.  Most of the contributors here are interested in, and willing to, make changes to protect and enhance our naturally occurring wild stocks.
 
From what I've read of your posts so far, they seem to be largely targeted at defending an unnatural: animal breeding, growing, and harvesting business. 

The number and tenor of your posts reads like you've been assigned the task of (maybe even employed) lobbying for the farming industry all of a sudden. (you just joined on 24 days ago)  Strangely coincidental to when Alexandra Morton was making significant headway in getting public awarenes.

Morty
(Mortgage Broker and Recreational Fisher)
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marmot

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2009, 04:37:48 PM »

Hey to be fair, this is in the "fishing related issues" section.....but i had a good laugh at that :D

I just dont think Folkie, aqua, or others on that bandwagon realize that when they recite the same stuff again and again that it does nothing but fan the flames.  It's almost like having Jehova's witnesses come to the door trying to convince you based on "the watchtower" that you should convert....it makes for interesting discussion until they come day after day.  Then it just gets old and worn out and REALLY makes you disdain their coming to your door.

I have nothing against Jehova's witnesses btw....just the ones that wake me up at 8am when I've been up working until 1am!!!  Nothing against fish farmers either really, just their industry.
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Folkboat

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2009, 06:33:25 PM »

    Well Morty. As Marmot said,  “Hey to be fair, this is in the "fishing related issues" section.....but I had a good laugh at that  ”, And the topic does say  “Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!”  We are warned before entering the Fishing-related Issues & News that topics may get “HOT”. Hot does not happen when the forum is all one sided. Do I not to get to play?
    You say this Morty “From what I've read of your posts so far, they seem to be largely targeted at defending an unnatural: animal breeding, growing, and harvesting business”.
Is this any different then hatcheries selecting salmon for brood, hatching the eggs, feeding them commercial salmon feed, releasing them into the wild, and we sport fisher people harvesting them? I am a recreational fisher also Morty. I care about the environment just as much, if not much more than most. I depend on it for a living.
    Farming has come a long way in the last 10 years. Mostly do to environmentalist awareness and the input from people working on the farms themselves. The U.S $ funded ngos do not pass that information out though. Marty, I have the opportunity to read studies from both sides of the fence. This is why I am confident in why I am here and putting out my opinion as many of you I am sure are confident of your opinions. If I wasn’t confident, I would be sitting on your side of the fence. I do know sea lice can kill smolts at 3 and under grams, while smolts around 10 grams have no problem with lice.  The question should be, why are many smolts entering the marine environment under 3 grams. Fresh water and temperature conditions play a big part in this I believe. From what I have seen, salmon farming plays a very minimal if any part in the decline of wild stocks up and down the west coast. The decline is happening in areas that have never had fish farms near them. U.S lower west coast for example. Sport and commercial fisheries are closed.
   Sorry you feel that I am reciting the same old stuff Marmot. But am I any different than the anti-farm band wagon and the many people reciting their same old stuff? Morty I got a giggle from your comment “The number and tenor of your posts reads like you've been assigned the task of (maybe even employed) lobbying for the farming industry all of a sudden. (you just joined on 24 days ago)  Strangely coincidental to when Alexandra Morton was making significant headway in getting public awareness”.       
This is simply not true. I do this on my own with no funding or moneys from industry or private. Its only 2 cents Morty. Only 2 cents.
   
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fishstocker

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2009, 09:32:57 PM »

As an impartial observer (now a contributor) It seems the farm defender's argument is kicking the snot out of the anti-farmers "chicken little" hysterics and mean spirited attacks. Just remember who's industry is actually in the business of stalking and killing wild salmon...fishers.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2009, 11:03:18 PM »

As an impartial observer (now a contributor) It seems the farm defender's argument is kicking the snot out of the anti-farmers "chicken little" hysterics and mean spirited attacks. Just remember who's industry is actually in the business of stalking and killing wild salmon...fishers.
As you are new to the board you most likely are not aware there is hundred's if not thousands of anglers and others that give freely of their time to help preserve fish, their habitat and the environment. If it was not for them, people that really care about having fish for the future we would be in a lot worse shape. Sure they harvest fish but out of the other sectors they are near the bottom of the totem pole harvest wise.

As has been stated many times governments are not leading by example and actually what they allow to happen destroys countless wild fish every year, of course fish farms is one of them. ::)

Folkboat

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2009, 12:18:40 AM »

    I agree with you Chris and I am happy you said “and others that give freely of their time to help preserve fish, their habitat and the environment”.
   Fish farmers happen to be some of them, as I am one. I can understand that many anglers do not have the opportunity or time to help with restoration and clean up of the environment, as I saw you do on one of your video clips Chris. Hats off to you Chris and to the many that stop and take the time to pick up after others.
   As for “As has been stated many times governments are not leading by example and actually what they allow to happen destroys countless wild fish every year, of course fish farms is one of them.  ” May I say you bang the same old drum that Marmot accused me of. “they recite the same stuff again and again” 
  It looks like we have a lot in common Chris but I do not think someone needs to be told or reminded that they are new here. This could portray a bulling act to shut people up witch is shunned in today’s children.
   Cheers Folkboat
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Rodney

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2009, 01:14:18 AM »

Morty, yes this is "Fishing with Rod", not "Farming in Pen", but also not "anti salmon farming campaign". We are operating a private business here and have chosen to provide a resource where discussions can take place. This resource is not to be used as a tool for political campaign, so as frustrating as it may be, you cannot suggest that someone else should stop posting simply because his or her points of views are different to yours. In fact, different points of views are highly welcome here as some of the posts mykisscrazy and other individuals in the biology fields who are independent have provided. People should be able to collect all information and make their own decisions what they think is right, instead of being persuaded into what others think maybe right.

Now that is clear, we have another issue to deal with. Even though Folkboat's points of views are welcome, some conducts have taken part that is unacceptable on this discussion forum. Three accounts (Folkboat, fishstocker, aquapaloosa) are being used from the same IP address. They all signed up within the same period of time. They all share the same views. Coincidence? I do not think so. A posting ban will be put in place on this IP address. Pity, because obviously this individual probably have lots to contribute, but has chosen to do it inappropriately.

Little Hawk

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2009, 08:39:43 AM »

Thanks Rodney for not including my name among those whose conduct has been questioned here previously.
I have tried to clean up my act some thanks to useful feedback from people like you; it's difficult when one becomes passionate as I am about an issue affecting wild fish.

The issue you have underscored here - fishfarmers lurking on internet Forums - is not new; they're on all the forums and their mission is to distract, confuse and keep as many of us 'Sporties' as confused and 'on-the-fence' as possible.

They know what I know: the end of the open net-pen business is on the horizon and they are getting nervous.

The day is near that all the net-pen apologist's will run from these Forums - in disgrace.

Respectfully,

Terry Anderson

Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society
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troutbreath

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2009, 11:03:17 AM »

"Three accounts (Folkboat, fishstocker, aquapaloosa) are being used from the same IP address."


Somehow that dosn't come as a shock. :D Good work Sherlock.
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marmot

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2009, 02:13:29 PM »

Wow!!! Hahahah that's solid gold.  I'm not surprised either...although I did think aquapaloosa and folkboat had two different mental disorders :D

It really is too bad they can't seem to get some decent closed inland farms going, but I think the reality of the situation is that salmon are not meant to be raised in close quarters.  Any aquarist knows what happens to fish when you overcrowd a tank...big tanks are no different I would guess...so no matter how clean they kept the water etc. they would no doubt need to use plenty of antibiotics etc. to counteract any effects of overpopulating.  Truly too bad because it could take pressure off wild stocks a bit.

I hope you are right terry and our province does a U-turn in its approach to aquaculture in the near future!



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Morty

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2009, 10:31:56 PM »

Hi Rodney - no political agenda on my part.  I have even openly stated my career.

Somethimes I just have to call things the way I see them and I appreciate you allowing that here.  If anything, I hope I am setting an examlpe for others to not just read the posts and sit back.  Check the long time signature I have at the end of all my messages.  "What are YOU going to DO about the salmon crisis?"

I am not against aquaculture, including salmon farming, and have stated that previously.  I am however very concerned about concentrated fish populations in open net pens.  I am also concerned about wild steelhead gulping cured roe, and have stated that previously as well.

Doing what I can.
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Little Hawk

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2009, 06:36:40 AM »

Howdy,

JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW WHO MAY BE WILLING TO DONATE TO THE WSA CAUSE, WE NOW HAVE 'PAY-PAL' LINKED TO OUR WEBSITE (WILDSALMONALLIANCE.CA)

IF ANY OF YOU WISH TO HELP US OUT BUT DON'T WANT TO USE 'PAY-PAL', PLEASE EMAIL ME (WITH YOUR NAME AND HOME ADDRESS) AND I'LL HAPPILY EMAIL YOU A COPY OF OUR DONOR ADVICE.

THANKS SO MUCH!

Terry Anderson
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Rodney

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Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2009, 12:11:22 PM »

aquapaloosa's account has been restored after I further looked into it. While each account usually has its own IP address, in rare circumstances IPs are shared by many accounts. Let's be extremely clear here. None of the accounts' posting privelege was taken away because they are against the anti-fish farming movement. When several accounts are registered from the same IP, it usually sets off an alarm as the intention is not usually good if they are being used by the same individual. In this case, they are not. I have no intention of removing individuals who are against the anti-salmon farming views that some of you have, so don't thank me or ask me to remove someone simply because they don't agree with you.

Next item. Kudos to you Little Hawk for having the passion to do what you believe in, but not for your approach. While it is somewhat better than what was being posted a year or two ago, you may still want to change your method of gathering support. Sensationalism being overdone leaves a bad taste. Game on? Sink the fish farm? While I am not in favour of predatory species aquaculture (either open pen or closed system), personally your organization does not get my support. The way that the organization is being represented seems like a group of militants or wingnuts in my opinion. That most likely would offend some, but perhaps take that as an advice rather than an insult if you wish to generate support. When my goal is to generate support to help my cause, I prefer to let people make an educated decision on whether they should or not after they have done the research of both sides themselves, instead of having information force fed down on them and creating a witch hunt movement. Someone else said it best, who will you go after next after fish farms are removed?

The absence of empathy amazes me. While you may not agree with provincial government's support of fish farms, the livelihood of thousands of people in small coastal towns rely on these operations. Removing the farms, easy for you to say, your job is not in jeopardy. How do you expect people, whose jobs that you are attempting to remove, to react to your views on the disucssion forum, especially in the current economic climate? Again, it's not so much the views that I have a problem with, it is the approach and has always been whenever a hot issue is being discussed.

The WSA is welcome to update members its progress. A farming organization is just as welcome to do the same. Just remember, this is a sportfishing discussion forum. We've set up a section for this type of discussion. We don't have to, but have done so because some members want it. Don't abuse that privelege. To understand where that line is drawn, put yourself in this scenario. Would you go into a fishing tacklestore and set up a anti-salmon farm booth with speakers and a microphone? Most participants in these discussions may want to take a moment to rethink how they should conduct themselves so the discussion can actually be beneficial to all. You are not here to share your thoughts, you are also here to learn too.