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[Folkboat]

 PETA is another donation asking NGO that only a couple of years ago took animals out of a shelter in Virginia U.S. claiming that they found, or are finding homes for them. The animals were later found in a dumpster behind a toy store. Charges were laid. Its a sad story. What is also sad is that good people thought they were donating to a worthy cause with honesty and trusted the information that was given to them. I think Peta has made many people look into the information on an issue before donating. I always question where and who is a NGO groups major funder and what the possible motive could be. Also and most of all. How they act, and present themselves.

[marmot]

I'm the first guy to say that there are two sides to every story and that we should be skeptical of any information we receive regardless of the source....BUT....I can't help but feel that you guys are basically planted here to counter the bad PR surrounding fish farms right now.  Your arguments seem so rehearsed and recited with so much spin that I'm having a hard time buying anything that is coming out of your mouths.

It's either that or you are somehow dependent on aquaculture for your income.

It doesn't make sense any other way....the province has nothing but some revenue and jobs to lose by ditching fish farms like every other intelligent proactive government out there has, we have a lot more to lose if we don't.  There is a lot on the line and I can't see anyone without something to directly gain from having farming around defending its practices.

Come clean already.....I don't mean to offend but I just do not understand how somebody can defend farming with so much at stake.

[Folkboat]

    There is no offense taken Marmot. I fully understand how you feel. I felt the same way over 10 years ago. I thought farming was bad. Only I had to ask myself if it is so bad then why is it going strong? One reason is that there is major investment from wild fisheries that can not sustain themselves on the wild stocks alone. Also I once saw a nature of things episode on fish farming. Suzuki said this could be the saviour of wild salmon. But I guess he changed his tune when the money started flowing in from the Moore foundation. I am sorry but my argument now comes from studies and science that started in the early 1900's long before fish farming and not from NGO misinformation from the last 13 to 20 years that spin the known studies for their own agenda.
    Farming is not the cause of a decline in fish stocks. Farming is the result of the fish stock decline.
    I am sorry you feel my arguments seem rehearsed and recited. People can take anything anyone says in a different way. Its all how you want to read it.
Also I am not trying to sell anything for you to buy Marmot. I am only passing information that I have found on to others. Its up to the reader to decide for themselves.  If I was selling the info I would be asking for donations.

[marmot]

I do agree that farming is a result of declining fish stocks.  No argument there.  If our stocks were healthy, we'd have no need for farmed fish....unless it was cheaper to farm an amount of fish than harvest that same amount commercially...?

So you don't work for the industry and you have nothing to gain from its survival?  I mean, I'm no better in that regard, I suppose.  I fish and I enjoy nature so I want there to be wild fish around for my kids to see one day....selfish reasons as well for wanting every little bit of impedement to wild stock recovery removed.

Have a good one in any case

[Rodney]

So you don't work for the industry and you have nothing to gain from its survival?

That's not what he stated in his posts marmot. Folkboat is a farmer.

[Novabonker]

http://www.bluefish.org/fifarmbc.htm  seems to tell a different story than some would claim.Or this- http://www.raincoastresearch.org/research.htm

[Folkboat]

 That was in 2001 Nova. Practicates have changed since then. And please remember the industry has only been around for about 40 years.
   " But, McMullin says, the province is already implementing a new policy framework for salmon farming, including new regulations to address fish health, waste management and farm escapes. The industry has also invested millions of dollars over the past year in a series of pilot projects to test new environmental technologies and husbandry practices, she said." Your conserns have been and always will the same as the salmon farmers.

[marmot]

So you don't work for the industry and you have nothing to gain from its survival?

That's not what he stated in his posts marmot. Folkboat is a farmer.

Sry I missed that part I guess.....  A different thread maybe ...that or I am blind!  Thanks though.

[Folkboat]

 And sorry nova but for the second link studies have show the same thing well before salmon farming start. This once again brings to my mind the money funded for this study was for alterior motives.
     “ Lack of quality assurance in the collection of field data. Pink and chum salmon
fry were collected using beach seines and subsampled using dip nets. Sea lice on the fry were generally enumerated without regard to species (Lepeophtheirus salmonis or Caligus clemensi) and then returned to the sea offering no opportunity for independent (blind) verification of the results. No quality assurance procedures are described to insure the accuracy of the counts. A credible quality assurance program would require, at a minimum, blind counts and the recounting of lice on a subset of the fry by independent observers and comparison of the results to insure consistency. Assistance in the field work was offered to Mr. Krkosek for the 2006 field season during a conference call between Mr. Clare Backman (Marine Harvest), Mr. Krkosek and Dr. Brooks. The offer was declined with Mr. Krkosek’s statement that he neither needed nor wanted assistance in conducting the field work. No claim of intentional bias should be inferred from this. However, unintentional bias in scientific work, particularly in field-work, is something that all experienced scientists aggressively guard against.
   The Standards, Protocols and Guidelines (SPG-2) developed by the British Columbia
Pacific Salmon Forum for Field Sampling Methods for Juvenile and Adult Pacific Salmon, and Caligid Zooplankton discusses the inherent biases associated with beach seining and dip netting, but fails to recommend quality assurance procedures to insure that collections represent random samples and that counts and identifications of lice are accurate.

[troutbreath]

"This once again brings to my mind that money motivates my posting."



and the fish be damned. You accuse people of posting their concerns about declining Salmon stocks as anti fish farmers. But your making money from it. I don't think you deserve much creedance in that case. Bias in the face of fact old boy. Isn't there a self help site for fish farmers that they can go and cry in their beer over what a bad reputation they have. May your next meal of farmed salmon be extra SLICEY.

[marmot]

Troutbreath he's not slinging mud at anyone here, just stating his opinions.  Folkboats take on it is obviously biased but so are yours and mine whether we want to admit it or not.  We just happen to trust different sources, that's all.

Folkboat what is your take on closed containment inland farms?  Do you believe they are a viable alternative?

[troutbreath]

I think your right Marmot, I was a little over the top. Almost letting emotions get the best of me. When all the wild Salmon are gone it will be where's my good bud Folkboat and those good deals on the farmed stuff. I may have shot myself in the foot already though.

[Novabonker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BcRBwCh6BA

[Novabonker]

http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/  I guess this is all specious nonsense as well. Try again. If I seem a little obnoxious, this is a subject that goes back to the denials of John Van Dongen and Stan Hagen about escapes and about how much money was sent to the Liberals by the fish farming industry. The piles of "mistruths" are appalling. I sincerely wonder about the consequences of allowing feed lots spewing sewage laced with drugs to float away. The end result is a fish coloured with dyes and full of chemicals that depletes other fish stocks to keep afloat.

Folkboat - can you address a few of the pollution concerns?
Farm-raised Atlantic salmon, one of the world's most popular health foods, are so laced with PCBs and other pollutants that they should be eaten only infrequently because they pose an increased risk of cancer, a new study contends in the prestigious journal Science.

Salmon from Toronto supermarkets were so contaminated they shouldn't be eaten more than once every two months, while those from Vancouver were safe to eat only once a month, according to the study. Similar consumption limits, based on tests on 700 salmon purchased from nearly 40 locations around the world, were made for European and U.S. cities.

Researchers blamed the feed used on fish farms for concentrating ocean pollutants. The study, being published today, is the most extensive ever done on industrial contaminants in farmed salmon.

Wild salmon were also studied but given a clean bill of health -- they have much lower levels of pollutants and could be eaten up to eight times a month.

[mykisscrazy]

Interesting on how things are going here.
It seems the people who are "pro-farming" are using pretty effective scientific arguments, while the "anti-farming" crowd are now going for personal attacks and mudslinging.

For people who are on the fence and have not made up their mind on this issue, such behavior is not helping your cause.

Whether you like it or not Aquaculture is here it stay in BC. Even Bill Otway BC's voice for the recreational fisherman recognizes this.
The important thing now is to make sure the Aquaculture Industry is accountable if and when anything happens.