Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing Reports => Members' Fishing Reports => Topic started by: Xgolfman on November 16, 2005, 07:07:25 PM
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I honestly hope no members of this board were at suicide creek today >:( me and a bud were there first light and first there period, things look decent to start out, not too many guys..my buddy hooked into a bright doe, 4-5 pound range...and the guy up from him hooked into a decent colored one as well...both on roe...i started with blade on float, switched to number 5 blue fox..finally to fake roe and wool and busted a nice 8 pounder or so buck that fought hard, 4 jumps cleared water...but unfortunately he was starting to turn and had too much color for my liking so i let him go..i got a few bumps and a couple almost but i was shut out..my bud got another decent doe and was happy....that's the good news..here's the bad..WE WILL NEVER FISH THERE AGAIN..i can honestly say i have never seen more combat style ignorant fishing in my life...i almost punched out one guy, ended up yelling at him and he moved away from me quick..(basically tried to fish in my pocket..i asked him to move and then had to get in his face and make him move) we had guys fishing from the other bank and casting their floats five feet in front of us and 6 lines crossed upriver...the morning guys were pretty good rods but after 9 the guys that showed up were ALL were snagging the fish big time..i honestly didn't see one guy fishing legit....i finally couldn't take it anymore and started asking them why they just didn't all fish with dynamite? got the usual looks and no one said anything back...Rod, i know you posted the numbers for dept. of fisheries but we forgot our cell phones..i would have really liked to see some major fines handed out....On a final note, my bud. hooked me up with one of his coho's as he knows i love to bar b q them as soon as i catch them...I'm chowing down on it as i write this...and man is it tasty...but as far as suicide creek goes...man no way can that even come close to being classified as fishing???
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yes ive had many day like that on numerous rivers, there just ignorent people, (notice i didnt say fishermen). I say throw'em in the river and then snagg them by the my friend or something like that...............................to bad other than that sounds like an okay day.
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And this is different from the Vedder,Chehalis, and the Stave how?
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any salmon runs for that matter.
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And this is different from the Vedder,Chehalis, and the Stave how?
yeah, i know it can be bad everywhere..i have just never seen guys climbing down on rocks across from you on a river..errr, creek, that is maybe 60 feet across???? casting over at your feet almost, upstream across lines...guys all with 12 foot leaders in 3 feet of water...(water was way down and super shallow and clear, fish were stacked up pretty good).....guys were hooking each others lines constantly....NO EDICATE, guess that part and the snagging really got to me...
after almost punching the one guy i moved up stream some away from everyone...guy up there, same thing, 12 feet of leader, ripping in every time..thankfully he never snagged anything..it just made me pause and really look at how all the other guys were fishing, all were snagging...that was fourteen guys in the pool right in front of the bridge...14 guys!!! just insane, got to be something we can do about this???
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the very first fish i ever caught was right on the top of the head, i guess you would consider that a snag, i didnt keep it nor never had kept any fish that were not in the mouth, however do you think that any hookset around the mouth is acceptable? i now ive caught a few right under the mouth would that be a snag as well, again i only keep fish caught by lips, just wondering if a possible miss hit would be accerptable? ???
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On the way out of the cap this weekend, I was sickened by the beaks snagging big old boot springs in the cable pool. Bottom bouncing wool on long (5-10 foot) leaders of 20-30+lb line...it was just gross. Watched a father and son roll in with basically fraser gear and after having watched a 30 lb spring fought for 20 minutes, beached with a net, dropped on the rocks and then kicked back...I couldnt help myself. I said to them something to the effect of dont bother setting up, everyone in the hole is just snagging fish with their ten foot leaders and its a disgusting way to fish. He said "well how would you go about catching them"?
It was an hounest question, no sarcasm, no attitude, etc. I replied I would use roe, maybe try some spinners to intice a bite, I would use a float to reduce snagging...dont BB and drag you hook across the run, etc.
Its was a curtious exchange but it drove home the fact that most people out there DONT HAVE A F*****G CLUE! Nothing against this father, he and his son probably learned how to hook salmon on the fraser fishing socks and now he and his son have carried this tactic else where...like many others.
I learned to fish rivers floating roe and wool. I have evolved as a fisherman and developed my arsenal to include hardware, blades, flies, roe sacks, marabou jigs, etc, etc. People who learn to fish salmon during our summer floss fishery never learn to do it right by inducing a bite. They have high expectations of coming home with a fish and more often than not, dont care how it happens (ie snagged or not)
It is time DFO updated the regs and increased enforcement. Its about time DFO put the SPORT back in sport fishing!
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The father and son should have checked out an actual ticket that was posted to the entrance of the Cable Pool
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Just remember if you are on the river and their are 100 other people on the same stretch you are also part of the gong show. People ripping,snagging, BB'ing is a different situation altogether. The rivers do not belong to one person so you cannot be upset if you get to a spot and their are a ton of people fishing. Just move to somewhere else if you don't like it.
Just tired of people complaining about how their are so many people on the rivers........
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That's funny, you fished in the middle of the gong show and then complain. Go for a walk next time, you'll save your sanity and also probably have better fishing than beek central.
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dont know if yor comment was to me Bulltrout, but I didnt fish there. Even knowing that S**T goes on bugs me. Besides, going somewhere else, ignoring a problem, and allowing an attrocity to continue unchecked is virtually no different than sticking your head in the sand!
People complain about the gong shows ruining runs...wait until its the entire river! as the lower mainland becomes more and more populated, the gong shows will get worse, they will spread and eventually very little "peaceful" space will be left for people who dont want to fish around snaggers and beaks - let alone fish a run in solitude.
Flossing, lack of etiquette, general gong show nature that our sport is degrading to...its an issue we can't ignore much longer.
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first i consider snagging or flossing anything that includes a 10 foot leader and hauling in fish for five minutes that are SNAGGED..in the back or stomach...you can hit the mouth flossing to hence it's name..
as far as walking down or up river, i did, but i was the first one on the river and in my spot...i put this with golf, if it's a busy summer weekend, the round will be slow but that doesn't excuse people hitting into you or jumping your group, it's all about etiquette...my buddy won't say anything, i will...not to be a jerk, but because I'm in my 40's and i was raised to that way, when someone gives me the finger, i follow them down and ask them why..the person has always coward ed..it's all about holding people responsible for their actions..the same i do with my kids...there is no excuse for being a jerk on a river or anywhere for that matter. I just wonder if all the ethical fisherman started a campaign or something and said something or at least pointed out to these guys that it is not legal to fish that way if it would help...i tend to think like gooey that some guys have no idea, i was fishing with a guide a few weeks ago and that's how he fished, said people pay money and they want a fish..so is this where these guys are learning it from??? i honestly doubt it, i think they do it because they can and they can get away with it....period.
I know in todays society everyone assumes that everyone else is a gangbanger and "they could have a gun" i grew up around Detroit and went through all the b.s. it's the F***ing video games..but i won't touch that argument...I'm new to all this and as a newbie all i can say is it's wrong and you got to do something or you won't have any fish left!!!
Finally on the Vedder i did see a couple guys doing this and a guy down from me made some comments after he got a couple fish and when he had his limit the guy went right after him and let him know in no uncertain terms that that was enough and it was unacceptable. other guys on the river jumped right in and started blasting the guy too, it was like everyone was just waiting for someone else to say it first..the guys packed up and left immediately...i don't know, maybe this is an old dog and it's been beaten so many times that you guys get sick of hearing it...probably is, I'm new and the guys who have showed me how to fish are ethical fisherman...they like to say "it's called fishing, not catching"....sorry for the long rant!!!! it's the j. rome effect on me,,,,I'm out!!
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welcome to the lower mainland
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Its more than unfortunate G65 its sad and its a crime that sport fishing in the lower mainland is headind down the road its on . People were warned long ago on this board and others that the snagging happening on the Fraser would spread like a cancer to the other flows if it was not stopped.
Sure you can find a quiet spot if you look for it but take a look at what these fish have to get past before they get to your quiet spot .
I saw a guy fishing with his three little kids on the Vedder just last weekend . The kids all had lifejackets on and I commend Dad for that but his setup was no float , a 2oz. bouncing betty, a 12'
leader and a gaff for a hook with a gob of wool on it :-\ .
This is what a generation of kids are now learning :-[ wether people want to admit it or not .
New laws are needed and enforcement must be there .
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Its was a curtious exchange but it drove home the fact that most people out there DONT HAVE A F*****G CLUE! Nothing against this father, he and his son probably learned how to hook salmon on the fraser fishing socks and now he and his son have carried this tactic else where...like many others.
Totally agree allot of people are introduced to salmon fishing through the fraser like i was. ::) Its by far the easiest way to get someone into it no skill involved. I wont lie first time i went to the vedder that was 6 years ago i came with the same rig cuz i had NO! CLUE! That being said i came down to the river and the first thing that caught my eye was not all the fish people were catching but how they were catching them. I was off to freds in a flash to ask them what exactly i need to fish the vedder and in 20 mins i was set. I think its everyone responsibility who is knew to at least drop by the local store and ask how to best fish that river.
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Sometimes i think its where youre fishing more than the technique thats gonna snag fish backs. If you are fishing in chum infested water, sooner or later, you'll end up crossing your blades, wool, roe, whatever across some poor unseen salmons back on the retrieve. You need to look for the right water and fish delicately!
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Same old observations and complaints that have been repeatedly brought up in the last four seasons on the forum yet with no specific solutions developed and put forward to those who can make these changes. The solutions will not happen until the angling sector is able to unite instead of excluding individuals who are newcomers by labelling as beeks or those who are not as worthy as "anglers".
Golfman, I feel your frustrations, so I usually do my best to avoid getting into that situation. While making your thoughts heard by getting in the violators' faces get your point across effectively, be very careful what the consequences maybe. In the past fights do break out under these circumstances when both parties don't back up. It's not worth to risk your own safety to argue over the correct fishing techniques.
Phoning the authorities maybe the ideal option, but I highly doubt these individuals would be charged and fined unless they are truly doing something illegal by the book, ie. barbed hook, fishing without a licence, retaining fish over the daily quota. The existing regulations do not dictate how an angler should fish (ie. how far he or she should stand away from the other angler, how long the leader should be, how much weight he or she should use, how thick his or her line should be) and there isn't an intend to introduce such rules into the book.
What this community needs to do is to develop a efficient channel to deliver information on proper fishing techniques to the newcomers. What existing anglers should realize is that we should not turn away those who wish to get into fishing. Angling participation has been on the decline based on licence sales. What is observed at one specific location does not provide an accurate picture of the state of angling in this province.
Education and enforcement need to work side by side to improve the quality of angling in Southern BC. In the last few years I've set out objectives on this website to achieve this, by publishing articles that inform people how they can fish and what they should know about their targeted fish. The fishing reports provide an overview of the current fishing conditions but they are usually accompanied by a list of regulations that need to be learned. Our connection with DFO offices allow me to deliver any concerns that they may have to the community.
What I want to see more is a better way to deliver this information on the river. Signs, bulletin boards and information kiosks can satisfy this requirement. They can reduce the amount of misinformed anglers on the waters. Next spring, we'll be installing one of these information kiosks at London's Landing (Richmond), which is a popular fishing site for parents who wish to take their kids fishing. By having this educational tool available, it should reduce the amount of honest mistakes made by new anglers.
Cheers.
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DFO will probably not change fishing to sport only. As angling for fish did not start as a mean of sporting but food gathering. Regulations are there to prevent wipe out of certain fish specie in certain water system. And to make sure specie under protection can be released with least harm. Truth is, where those less liked fishing method is happening more often, those area are most likely easy access, frequented by less experienced and less challenging. If you are really taking fishing as a sport, walk around find a nice scenic stretch and you'll find less people and even if you do encounter 1 or 2 you'll find they are usually your 'approved' anglers.
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Same old observations and complaints that have been repeatedly brought up in the last four seasons on the forum yet with no specific solutions developed and put forward to those who can make these changes. The solutions will not happen until the angling sector is able to unite instead of excluding individuals who are newcomers by labelling as beeks or those who are not as worthy as "anglers".
Golfman, I feel your frustrations, so I usually do my best to avoid getting into that situation. While making your thoughts heard by getting in the violator's faces get your point across effectively, be very careful what the consequences maybe. In the past fights do break out under these circumstances when both parties don't back up. It's not worth to risk your own safety to argue over the correct fishing techniques.
Phoning the authorities maybe the ideal option, but I highly doubt these individuals would be charged and fined unless they are truly doing something illegal by the book, ie. barbed hook, fishing without a license, retaining fish over the daily quota. The existing regulations do not dictate how an angler should fish (ie. how far he or she should stand away from the other angler, how long the leader should be, how much weight he or she should use, how thick his or her line should be) and there isn't an intend to introduce such rules into the book.
What this community needs to do is to develop a efficient channel to deliver information on proper fishing techniques to the newcomers. What existing anglers should realize is that we should not turn away those who wish to get into fishing. Angling participation has been on the decline based on license sales. What is observed at one specific location does not provide an accurate picture of the state of angling in this province.
Education and enforcement need to work side by side to improve the quality of angling in Southern BC. In the last few years I've set out objectives on this website to achieve this, by publishing articles that inform people how they can fish and what they should know about their targeted fish. The fishing reports provide an overview of the current fishing conditions but they are usually accompanied by a list of regulations that need to be learned. Our connection with DO offices allow me to deliver any concerns that they may have to the community.
What I want to see more is a better way to deliver this information on the river. Signs, bulletin boards and information kiosks can satisfy this requirement. They can reduce the amount of misinformed anglers on the waters. Next spring, we'll be installing one of these information kiosks at London's Landing (Richmond), which is a popular fishing site for parents who wish to take their kids fishing. By having this educational tool available, it should reduce the amount of honest mistakes made by new anglers.
Cheers.
i figured this was what was happening and i honestly don't try and get into anyones face, it happens but I'm a pretty amicable guy all in all...i was wondering though if anyone thought of making up patches or the like that you got for a buck or free...i don't know, say's "Ethical fisherman" just that...when guys see it and ask you about it, you could tell them the story of snaggers, flossers etc. and explain that you are not one of these...don't know if it would help or not but if you charged a couple bucks for the patch you could you the money for educating guys on the proper way to fish. (might just be flyers at first but at least it would be something)
if I'm being naive i apologize..
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Imagine how the older fishers on this board feel. 20-30 years ago when they were my age (32 now) they probably saw only a handful of guys a day on the river and fish were thick...I have seen pictures of 2 fishermen with a stringer full of 15-20lb steelhead, can you imagine that!!! Well imagining it is as close as you are going to get to it now.
When you look at the gong shows, the snagging, the poor treatment of fish and their habitat, unethical fishing practices, etc I shudder to think what my sons will see on the vedder river in 30 years when I'm that old fisherman who vaguely remembers "the good old days".
This is why I get so wound up when I see the degridation of our sport. I don't believe we sports fishing is evolving in a sustainable fashion...that terrifies me.
We can not wait to act much longer.....that is if we all truely care.
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hey golfnut....i was also shown how to fish by "ethical fishreman" on the vedder. using a spinning gear my first trip i immmediately switched to levelwind combo set at freds on my second trip. I am a short floater and i never dredge the bottom with lead as many do nowadays. I guess if fisherman really wanted others to stop bottom bouncing then a lead ban on the vedder and other systems except the fraser would correct that. can't BB without a lot of weight. Although the tackle shops and others involved would not be so thrilled about the loss of sales. then of course licesnce sales would drop somewhat and then DFO would see this as a reason to cut egg production at the hatcheries. then there would be less fish to catch each returning year. somewhere out there there has to be a middle ground everyone can agree on. And as the BB'ing debate continues the natives continue with their unabandoned raping of the resource...drift nets..poaching....illegal fish sales.....ceremonial fishery.....shopping carts etc etc..
I however do endorse a flyfishing only fishery on the veddr canal between hyway bridge and KWB. especially during low water levels in the summer time. Keep up the fight Gooey. Ethical fishing will arrive sooner not later with education.
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i think that they should reduse the limit of coho to 1 a day. I think that it would stop all the meat fisherman that just want to get there 4 and leave. If there is only a 1 a day limit there will be more fish but other then that people would go for sport to get the fish, and will be thankfull to keep there 1 fish of the day. but im just a kid, so you older gents could think im nuts but i do think the limits should be redused.
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The limit for sockeyes in the Fraser is 2 but has not stop the meat fishermen from double dipping.
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My solution to the problem,or at least to curb it; decide which fisheries are set aside as MEAT fisheries (Fraser sockeye maybe, Stave chum, whatever) and then decide which are sport fisheries (everthing else). Regulate leader length on your sport fisheries for coho, steelhead, etc to say 36". Open up your summertime floss fest, but have DFO call it what it is a SNAG fishery, but allow people to keep their two sockeye, regardless of how the angle them. If it's regulated as a harvest fishery, with the word SNAG attached to it. In Alaska they do this, people can snag abundant runs in terminal areas. People can still go down to the Fraser and get their fish for the freezer, but a distinction is made that this is not a SPORT fishery. Then maybe rookies will not be fooled into thinking that this is the way that salmon are fished everywhere.
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Cohokid I do agree with you totally, but I think that a limit of one is a bit to low!!!! For the price of gas, I think that a limit of two would be a bit better. Now don't start calling me a meat fishermen because of this!!!!! I could care less whether I catch a wild or a hatchery, I just like catching fish!!!!! BUT, if I have a good day and get a fair amount of fish, I would probably like to keep a couple!!!! I love eating fish!!!! I like having barbecues, I use a fair amount of fish!!!!! Infact since I suggested that maybe we have Salmon for Christmas dinner, we have had nothing but!!!! Let me tell you, that take a lot of fish when there is about 20 people there!!!!! All I am trying to say it that, I think that the limit is to high as well. I was getting 6-7 hatchery coho everytime I went out like two years ago, only kept 4 in a day twice at the start of the year. I felt that this was two much fish!!!! After that the most I took was 2. Sometimes I took nothing. Depended on the need and which family member was asking for some!!!! This year I have only taken home 3 hatchery so far. The rest have been wild. This doesn't bug me, I'm still getting fish. I also think that a reduction in the limit would keep some of the more honest one off the river, but there will always be those that double dip like they do on the Fraser!!!! So it would help but at this point I don't now how much!!!!! ::) ::)
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i was wondering though if anyone thought of making up patches or the like that you got for a buck or free...i don't know, say's "Ethical fisherman" just that...when guys see it and ask you about it, you could tell them the story of snaggers, flossers etc. and explain that you are not one of these...don't know if it would help or not but if you charged a couple bucks for the patch you could you the money for educating guys on the proper way to fish. (might just be flyers at first but at least it would be something)
If a flyfisherman approaches you and explains to you that the only ethical fishing method is enticing a fish with a fly, would you accept his or her view?
Some people believe catch & release is cruel and a meaingless practice that only aims to torture fish for anglers' pleasure, would you agree?
Ethic is not the law. It is not absolute but constantly evolving as the society changes. The morals that people adopt since they were little differ from each other due to their family background, schooling and social interaction. The rights and wrongs cannot be distinctly separated, instead solutions are developed by civil discussions, like what we are doing right now. ;)
By identifying yourself as an ethical angler, you will simply be lablled as a purist/elitist by others who question, "Who granted you the angling authority to judge my fishing method?"
It's the perfect method to exclude others from learning what you would like them to know. This has been practiced in the past by some individuals who have not really made a difference if not made the situation worse.
I constantly remind myself to keep a good distance from the term "ethical angler", because I do not want to be known as that narrow minded person who apparently knows it all but actually doesn't, and chooses to dictate how others should fish. Instead I welcome those who want to know what has worked for me in the past, to share the knowledge that has been passed onto me. Whether others wish to use that knowledge or not is up to them, people should be given the opportunities to make decisions for themselves.
i figured this was what was happening and i honestly don't try and get into anyones face, it happens but I'm a pretty amicable guy all in all...
I think anyone would snap under such negative atmosphere, some just snap faster than others. Backing away maybe a hard one to swallow, but one needs to consider the outcome of the action that you choose to take. Arguing with others only result in three outcomes:
- Both parties walk away after cooling down and ending up hating each other. No one learns from the experience.
- One party physically assaults the other one, police are called and a good day of fishing ends.
- One party is physically assaulted by the other one, a good day of fishing ends up at the hospital.
By walking away, you're not necessarily being ignorant to the problem. Instead, take the problem to those who can make a difference. If crowding becomes a serious issue that poses a threat to the anglers' safety, the fish stock etc, then new regulations will be implemented.
i think that they should reduse the limit of coho to 1 a day.
Would you like this rule change if you have to pay for your own car and gasoline? ;)
Daily quota is determined by the amount of hatchery fish expected to return and previous creel survey data. As long as the amount of hatchery fish meets the demand of angling participation, daily quota is not to be reduced. Everyone has to understand that, the purpose of hatchery fish in Southern BC is for harvesting, which would protect the wild stock.
I'm not too sure why there needs to be a distinction between meat and sport fishermen. People like to go fishing because they like to catch fish, as well as bring fish home to eat. Those who just want to eat fish, would only go to the market to buy fish. Again, this comes back to the lack of unity in the angling community. For some reason we have the urge to categorize ourselves in groups so we would seemingly feel better than others. Why is it so hard to realize that, everyone is out there for one reason - Fun?
The daily quota for pink salmon in the Squamish two years ago was one. Nina and I left in a hurry after we were crowded out by a few locals at 7:00am in July 2003. There was a huge line starting from the mouth of Mamquam River. Did daily quota of one reduce the crowd?
The daily quota for Fraser River sockeye salmon, as FA has brought up, is two. Thousands of people rush to the Fraser Valley as soon as it opens despite of the high cost of gasoline.
The problem that you are trying to solve, is the increasing number of violations. Just because a few people choose to violate fishing regulations, does that mean we need to reduce sportfishing opportunities? The solution that is absent most of the time is enforcement. Without enforcement, you can set your daily quota at one fish, people will continue to retain more than they can because they know that they will not be checked. Closing the river down would create a paradise for poachers as no anglers will be present on the river to report them in.
The reality is, we are utilizing a public resource that needs to be shared. Public resource is hard to manage, because no one wishes to take up responsibility of it. Fishermen have this fear that others will get to their spots first, get all the fish first. This fear usually builds up the gold rush effect, which results in the nastiness that people witness on the rivers all the time. The ideal management would be to go Euro - Privatize every watershed out there. Private owners have the responsibility to make sure their fisheries meet sustainability, which will draw anglers back. You have to fish the way they tell you to, or be prepared to take the consequences by the efficient enforcement. If crowding becomes a problem, how about time allocation? Anglers pay by the hour to fish, maximum three hours per day? Are you prepared to pay a daily access fee to fish your favorite rivers? I don't, I enjoy the current freedom in our fisheries. However, too many people take this for granted, which devalues what we still have.
It's not a simple issue, and the solutions are difficult to find, otherwise we wouldn't be scratching our head so much at meetings when this comes up everytime.
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yes rodney, i do understand you piont, but honestly, i think that 2 coho maximum is plenty. And i do understand the gas thing, as i was going to release a coho that was still chrome but was darker then normal and my dad said it will be a good smoker, bonk it. for the gas we spent going out here, and my dad have a 454 7.3 litre big block chev and let me tell you 100$ to go to the vedder and back. so fish dont really pay for much of the gas, even if you limit out. the only fish that would pay for you gas would be sockey at 50$ a fish. But big steel does agree. at least 2 fish is sufficent enough for a person. and now a days the chance of getting 4 coho in a day are slim so why not reduce it a little. not trying to come across as a little S**t head either. but this is my personal opinoin. :)
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Haven't you realized that minors on this forum cannot have an opinion? ;)
I agree with you and Big Steel that four is more than enough for those of us who fish regularly. How about those who make one trip a year from the interior down to the Vedder River? In my opinion, they should have the option of keeping four fish per person if they want to. For the rest of us, keep less to please you. :) The gas money comment was meant to poke fun at you mainly ;) , I just wanted to remind all that cost does play an important factor in sportfishing (trust me, it does, I have the studies sitting on the shelf somewhere, just have to find them).
The bottom line is, daily quota designation should be decided by the fishery managers. If the harvest opportunities are there, then they should be given. What you and I should be pushing for, is more permanent enforcement officers in our regions to enforce the existing regulations that can make a difference.
Oh yes, chrome fish are good for smokers, dark fish are nutrient for the river. ;)
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if the fish is bright chrome then we smoke it, we dont keep rotters or anything. but if there bright chrome then we eat it at the table.
Dinner Table
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/cohokid/cap_coho_fillets.jpg)
Smoker..if it werent wild
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/cohokid/cords_wild_chehalis_coho)
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i meant if the fish isnt bright chrome. soorry my bad :(
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Look at that colour. Gorgeous fish...Slap that baby on the BBQ with a soaked cedar board and your off to the races.
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Rodney.
i don't know how to highlight a couple paragraphs... :-[ god i hate computers sometimes...i agree, i was thinking about it later and ethical is not the right term at all....BUT...if a fly guy did come up and i would tell him to show me and do it...(I'm moving into that realm over the winter).. ;D...there has got to be a term that is catchy enough that guys would look at it and want to ask about it...and money made could be used to print out flyers etc. about the problem with snagging....on the other hand, i like what Alaska does with it "snagging" season...that's pretty enlightened in my mind too...kind of gets guys thinking about what other ways are there to catch..
but one other thing i got to ask..aside from the snagging etc. Why would anyone think that crowding into some guys space or going to the other side of a creek and tossing your line upstream over 3-4 other guys lines is acceptable???? that one i just don't get...i look at these guys like they are martians...that's right up there with parking in the handicap spot...not to bright..
Thanks for the insight though, it's good to know that I'm not alone in my frustration, and if that means joining a club up your ways and trying to make a difference..so be it..
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[qoute]Why would anyone think that crowding into some guys space or going to the other side of a creek and tossing your line upstream over 3-4 other guys lines is acceptable
happened to me one time on the chehalis when a landed to coho. the cast over to me and my dad and we could barley cast our selve, so we just left.
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gm65, I hope you are not trying to troll on the subject of bashing sockeye fishermen as snaggers. I think we have debated long enough on that subject already on this forum. This forum does not sanction such name calling on sockeye fishermen. Many of them are skilled steelheaders and coho fishermen. They BB for sockeye because it is acceptable to DFO as an effective fishing method for sox. Flossing is intended to hook the mouth of the fish, whereas snagging targets the body, particularly the soft underbelly, and most snaggers do not release a snagged fish. Most sockeye fishermen released fish caught in the body. No one I know among my sockeye fishing group is using 12' leader and a bettie on the smaller system. On fishbc forum, some posters from Alska claim they use the term 'lining' over there.
I understand your frustration on the smaller rivers. Most skilled fishermen are. But every year newbies show up with everything in their arsenal. I found treble hooks once in a while. Let's just report obvious violations and stop stereotyping. Let's not start the shame-you game. So if one is skunked for coho for a few trips, then he hits a good day, and he keeps his limit, he is a meat fisherman. Go figure. ??? Thanks Rod for your moderation on the heated subject. :)
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yes rodney, i do understand you piont, but honestly, i think that 2 coho maximum is plenty. And i do understand the gas thing, as i was going to release a coho that was still chrome but was darker then normal and my dad said it will be a good smoker, bonk it. for the gas we spent going out here, and my dad have a 454 7.3 litre big block chev and let me tell you 100$ to go to the vedder and back. so fish dont really pay for much of the gas, even if you limit out. the only fish that would pay for you gas would be sockey at 50$ a fish. But big steel does agree. at least 2 fish is sufficent enough for a person. and now a days the chance of getting 4 coho in a day are slim so why not reduce it a little. not trying to come across as a little S**t head either. but this is my personal opinoin. :)
Sounds like it needs a tune up, even at a buck a liter :P
My thoughts on the whole snaggery is that salmon should not be retained past the non-tidal mark, but thats unlikely. If you want to have lots of nice peacefull fishing, target another species, cause theres lots of other fish that are a blast to catch, and plentiful if you are lucky.
5 out
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gm65, I hope you are not trying to troll on the subject of bashing sockeye fishermen as snaggers. I think we have debated long enough on that subject already on this forum. This forum does not sanction such name calling on sockeye fishermen. Many of them are skilled steelheaders and coho fishermen. They BB for sockeye because it is acceptable to DFO as an effective fishing method for sox. Flossing is intended to hook the mouth of the fish, whereas snagging targets the body, particularly the soft underbelly, and most snaggers do not release a snagged fish. Most sockeye fishermen released fish caught in the body. No one I know among my sockeye fishing group is using 12' leader and a bettie on the smaller system. On fishbc forum, some posters from Alska claim they use the term 'lining' over there.
I understand your frustration on the smaller rivers. Most skilled fishermen are. But every year newbies show up with everything in their arsenal. I found treble hooks once in a while. Let's just report obvious violations and stop stereotyping. Let's not start the shame-you game. So if one is skunked for coho for a few trips, then he hits a good day, and he keeps his limit, he is a meat fisherman. Go figure. ??? Thanks Rod for your moderation on the heated subject. :)
Using gillnets is acceptable to DFO. So is decimating rebuilding runs to the point of near extirpation. Doesn't mean I should do it too. Not if I have any personal ethics at all. Make up a different name for snagging the dorsal fin, call it backscratching, does that make it better? Same as lining or flossing, just a different word.
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There we go again. I am begining to doublt some remanants of a closed anti-flossing site making a drift to this site. Why are so many newbies having such strong opinion on flossing all at a sudden. Time for some quality control before this site becomes another battle field of some biased people. No one says you have to be a DFO fan. But they set the rules and they enforce the rules. All free-willing citizens can partake in a legal fishery, and it is none of the business of others. Don't try to jam your idea about ethics down the throat of others. Without hijacking this thread, I will close my case. If some one wants to start a flossing debate, it should be done in a different thread. :) But then, It is steelhead season upcoming, not sockeye. ;D
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The bottom line is, daily quota designation should be decided by the fishery managers. If the harvest opportunities are there, then they should be given. What you and I should be pushing for, is more permanent enforcement officers in our regions to enforce the existing regulations that can make a difference.
Totally agree.
From what I understand from my neighbour (87 years old) In the old days, Greater Vancouver has less than 1M population. 1 fisherman can land a good number of salmon, steelheads easy. But as population grew and living standards change, more and more people takes up golfing, fishing, and other outdoor activities. Resources are depleted, and hatchery were placed in popularly fished rivers to 'keep' these recreational fishing population happy. In a way, because of easy access and enhanced stock, fishing catch rate are high in these rivers such as Vedder, Chehalis, Capilano... and this inturn keeps anglers from moving outside of these hatchery enhanced rivers, therefore wild stocks in other river system are safe.
Angling also started as a method of gathering food not sport. Many catch fish for food. Some like there table fare bought from market, some like to catch their own. What's wrong in keeping your catch? Some people might only get to fish once a week or may be months. They would hope to limit out what they catch, also might have large family. Some might call them meat fisherman, but those meat fisherman might also think why put pain to those 10, 20 fish when just fishing for fun or sport?
I believe so long there is enough brood stock returning to hatchery DFO will not likely to change daily catch limit in these hatchery stock enhanced rivers.
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gm65, I hope you are not trying to troll on the subject of bashing sockeye fishermen as snaggers. I think we have debated long enough on that subject already on this forum. This forum does not sanction such name calling on sockeye fishermen. Many of them are skilled steelheaders and coho fishermen. They BB for sockeye because it is acceptable to DFO as an effective fishing method for sox. Flossing is intended to hook the mouth of the fish, whereas snagging targets the body, particularly the soft underbelly, and most snaggers do not release a snagged fish. Most sockeye fishermen released fish caught in the body. No one I know among my sockeye fishing group is using 12' leader and a bettie on the smaller system. On fishbc forum, some posters from Alska claim they use the term 'lining' over there.
I understand your frustration on the smaller rivers. Most skilled fishermen are. But every year newbies show up with everything in their arsenal. I found treble hooks once in a while. Let's just report obvious violations and stop stereotyping. Let's not start the shame-you game. So if one is skunked for coho for a few trips, then he hits a good day, and he keeps his limit, he is a meat fisherman. Go figure. ??? Thanks Rod for your moderation on the heated subject. :)
Nope. have only been on the frazer/harrison once and that was with a guide, they were using 12 foot leaders and b.b.'s and were fishing for chum to use for sturgen bait that way...when i asked them about it they told me that that was an accepted way to fish ( a small bead or piece of wool keeps it from being considered "illegal")....as when people are paying for the trip they expect fish....i tried it, snagged a tomatoe and went back to my own method...legal or not, i didn't like fishing that way, it takes the sport out of it for me at least...
I've been told that that is how you fish for sockeye by a few guys...i was also told that if i thought it was bad at suicide creek wait till i see sockeye season....you know i willl probably try it but if its that bad i won't fish it...nothing is worth that aggravation..
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haha
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thats also known as the norrish river that connects with the dewdney slough. just after inch creek hatchery. was there today and went for a walk downstream........fresh bear tracks nearby. also some fresh coyote tracks near the edges of the river. decided to head the other way back towards the bridge. I'm adventurous but not stupid.
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You are right redtide,i was there today and saw a lot of fresh bear tracks,way more than chehallis,so be careful
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I would use a float to reduce snagging
How would this help? The long leader will still swing through a school of fish - only higher in the water.
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Use a shorter leader.
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I agree that a shorter leader will reduce the chances of a foul hooked fish, but the chap mentioned he uses a float to reduce snagging. I am sure he meant FLOAT PLUS SHORT LEADER as I've seen people flossing using a long leader with AND without floats.
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Generally speaking yes but would this not depend on what species you are targeting as some fish (ie. Sockeye) do not hug the bottom as much as say Springs?
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Oh and depends on fish density. With a group of chum ie Stave. It's harder to not hook a fish then getting one. Unless you're fly fishing with float line. ;D