Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing Reports => Members' Fishing Reports => Topic started by: Rodney on September 29, 2004, 03:47:04 PM
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Well, after reading SockeyeJunkie's report and a few other reports yesterday, I was pretty excited about fishing today. I didn't even sleep very well last night, knowing there would definitely be fish to be caught today. Tossed and turned the entire night until 4:30am. ::)
Anyways, LukeYVR and I fished from first light until 1pm around the lower river. Luke has really started to enjoy float fishing. Why wouldn't he? He hooked more fish than me today. ::) Four fish in total, but only one spring jack landed and one wild coho released.
I, on the other hand, missed a good hit just after dawn. I then had a hatchery doe on around 8am at a tailout. A beautiful fish indeed, chrome and around 8lb. As I was sliding the fish onto the bank, the hook popped out and the fish tumbled its way back into the water. :-\ :-X :'(
Not much after that, I threw my small 1/5oz blue stripe spoon under the float and had a really good hit but only a brief contact with the fish.
River level has now dropped back to the level before the first rain storm earlier this month. Water was gin clear, making it difficult to fish once the sun is high up. First light was not too productive, but the fishing picked right up around 8am. Waves of fish were on the move throughout the day. We saw mostly wild coho landed, lots of big white chinook rolling as well. Still a few chrome spring jacks roaming about.
Good luck all. :)
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Now if you were using my secret roe........ Tell you what Rodney, I'll give you my secret recipe plus $150 for your Calcutta 400
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Stop criticizing my roe, there's nothing wrong with it. ::) ;D
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Nice to finally meet you in person. As for me, I got that wild coho first thing in the morning. It was pretty slow so I went down below Peach. I had two hook up but they got off within seconds.
My buddy decided to move down river and we got into quite a few humongous Springs. We each took one chromer and left for some much needed " ZZZZZZZZ".
Did you move up or down after Peach?
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Are you nuts? Don't expose my secret hideouts. ;D Just kidding. Nice meeting you today Thomas, good to shake hand for once instead of just looking at pics or seeing you from the other side of the river. :)
I moved around quite a bit today, here there, everywhere.... I ended up on the north side as well....
No sleep for me, almost time to head to work! :o
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Too bad I didn't see you Rod. I was at the stretch just above the train bridge at first light. Was pretty slow, a guy had a chum on. Then I went to my favouite spot upstream. Like you I noticed the fish turn on at 8:00am. I bonked one hatchery coho doe and released one wild. Also landed 3 jacks. All on Coho roe. Fun day, alot of people for a weekday.
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Sept.29
About 8 am I went in to a run, I haven’t fished in a long time, mid river section, there were a couple of guys with a fire going, they were probably there before daybreak. The guy yelled to his buddy, look that guys, second cast, he has a Coho on the beach. Yes it was chrome, hatchery, and about ten pounds, and I didn’t touch an other fish all day.
Fullahead
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Rod, I am curious...how do you set a spoon under a float? Assuming I am using spoons like you sell, how do I weigth them to cast out a decent amount? Is it float, pencil lead, and spoon as you would with wool?
thanks
Vince
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Luke has really started to enjoy float fishing. Why wouldn't he?
That's because my Fishing Sensei is excellent. :)
I still have difficulty IDing river salmons. The wild coho I released today, had a slightly hooked nose and white gum, but very few spots, its body looked almost chinook. ??? ???
I guess other people having difficulty as well, because one man bonked a fish convinced it was a wild jack chinook, but it looked very similar to my released wild coho.. He cut it open and meat was reddish or orange . Almost all jack chinooks being caught at Vedder these days, have white meat, right? :-\ ??? ???
Can anyone tell me one sure way to ID between these, without cuting it open, and without yelling at me, please? ??? :-[ :-[ :'(
I, too tossed the Rod's Spoon, but green stripe. No fish, but caught a croc. spoon and a B.Betty rig. ::)
Around 12:30p.m., the dude next to me using a long leader and yellow wool, got his very first Hatchery coho. It was almost 1m in length. Biggest fish caught at our section of the river today. He was very happy indeed.
I also saw one gentleman, fly fishing down stream from me. He told me that he had fished over 4 hours without a single bite. ???
Oh, after walking back to the parking lot, I realized that my car had a flat tire....
I knew something had to go wrong..... :P :P
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Cohos have white gums as well as black spots on the top half of the tail. Chinooks have black gums and black spots on top and bottom of tail. Hatchery cohos have a missing adipose fin. (the small fin on the back towards the tail).
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Hi Luke. The best way to tell them apart is that Coho have almost no spots on the tail...almost-some have a few spots on the upper tail. But a springs tail is loaded with spots top to bottom. a coho has white gums on the upper mouth. Most springs will be gray, but a coho will be chrome bright. Some of the coho will soon be turning pinkish red. Coho and springs fight differently, as soon as you hook a coho you will see it thrashing under the surface rolling and twisting. almost chaseing its tail. ( the veterans know what I mean) When you hook a spring you'll get some big head shakes, then hang on cuz you're going water skiing! Your rod will bend right over if its a big one. Good luck.
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Luke,
Bug pumper and Fish Assassin have it right.
Once you know the rules about spots on the tail and gums, you need to find some fish to look at to learn to tell the difference. Next time on the river when a fish is kept (even by someone else), look really closely at the tail and the gums of springs or coho. Pretty soon its easy to tell them apart.
Generally I go by the tail when playing the fish to know if its "probably a chinook" or "probably a coho" (along with other clues such as size and the way they fight). Brightness of the fish can be a guide, but it really depends on the river system and time of year. Based on that I make a decision to pull it into the shallows or not. I always double check the gums before bonking it just to be sure. I have seen many chinooks with no spots at all on the tail. The gums are the sure way to never go wrong, but you need to have the fish close to check them.
Certain times of year Steveston dock is good for practicing to id the different salmon.
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ya, good idea Gman. Just go to granville island and study the fish in the market. Its a good chance to compare them side by side.
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I find the martkets often dont know what they are selling. Case in point, I wa sin safeway this weekend and the were marketing springs that had spots on their head...they were frickin atlantics and I am sure by the body shape that they were farmed too.
In terms of coho, stick to the NO spots on the tail rule. I also find their tails have silver rays in them were as the springs are duller.
I am not aware of any clipped fish on the vedder to other than Steelhead and Coho...if you have any doubt just make sure there is no adipose.
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Agree with Gooey. Another case in point, I was in a well known grocery store chain chain and they had "silverbright" salmon on sale. They were chums.
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Gooey: FYI: Apparently, there were some sockeye with clipped adipose fins in the Vedder. Saw bunch of posters advertising this. Don't think it's an issue now at this time of the year.
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I wouldn't say coho have NO spots on the tail... they usually have a few right along the top edge, and sometimes a few on the bottom edge. But as bug pumper says, chinook tails are covered top to bottom with spots. If you see silver and lots of spots, it's a chinook. Done. If it has only a few spots, it's most likely a coho and you should confirm by looking at the gums.
If it has NO distinct black spots on the back or tail, but silver on the tail, it's probably a chum. If it has no spots on the back and no silver on the tail, it's a sockeye. (Jack chum don't have much silver on the tail, to confuse things, and are often the same size as small sockeye, and sockeye occasionally have a very small amount of silver right in the middle at the base of the tail, but the chances of running into either of those is pretty minimal.) If it has spots on the back, it's a coho or chinook (or pink or steelhead or atlantic, for that matter) but not a chum or sockeye.
You can't use body spots or colouration to distinguish between chinook and coho - they both sometimes turn red and have varying numbers of spots. But the white gums on coho are a definitive feature. Another not so definitive one is if you are picking one up by the tail, a coho is harder to pick up (thicker caudal peduncle).
Is this horse dead yet? :)
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As long as people make misidentifications....the subjects not dead!
In regards to the clipped sockeye, I dont know if they would have passed thru the system yet...my guess is yes. I am really surprised that there would be any clipped sockeye too...I woulda loved to have seen a picture.
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Rodney try this when fishing the gin clear water. Use a 6-10ft leader (that will get things going) with a #4 or smaller hook. I like to use Peach wool (flatten it out on your knee) and 1/4 piece of red wool. Put the red wool in the peach and roll it sushi style. Place the wool in your egg loop and cut it small so it looks like two eggs. Notice the red looks like the embryo centre. Use a little salmon smell or annis oil. Float this through the deep slots or on the side of the riffle.
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6 to 10FT leader!!!!!!! :o
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Hey rob l...how long was your leader when you hooked that spring in your little picture?!?!? ;)
I agree with you thou....that sounds like a flossing rig to me. I find long leaders under a float allow the fish to spit the hook long before the float moves.
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How do you toss a 6-10' leader? Must be difficult to land a fish as well. :P
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I wouldn't recomend that length of leader to anyone. But back to the coho ID, the coho do get some spots on the tail so if you're not sure look at the gums.
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Very true..The spring in my pic was caught durring Sockeye season.
Just seems too long for me, in the chedder. Did however see a guy BB the river a few days ago with great success. He had three Coho and all clearlyy hooked inside the the mouth,and not your usual flossing outside. IMO The fish nailed the yarn...
Tight lines
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I dunno, I usually try to save money so my leaders are short. ;) Seriously though, I keep mine short because I love that instant contact when the fish pulls the float down. Sometimes it is so hard that the rod tip gets pulled down.
Aquaboy: With the spoon, I was using a 1/5oz. Basically, I do the same float setup, except I use slightly less weight to balance it out.
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Rob L question...how long was the guys leader??
I have always thought flossing and bottom bouncing are 2 different things. you put a 2 foot leader in with no float and dont sweep it across the run then you wont floss the fish.
flossing IMHO is the intentional persuit of hooking a fish by lining them and the beaks that do that stick out like sore thumbs.
Bottom bouncing done right can produce fair hooked fish (as you witnessed). My guess is this guy had a short leader and was free spooling down the run.
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Neat Freak... Sliding float.
I have never foul hooked one fishing this way. I have spent a lot of time fishing the Chehalis in clear water on a perch above the river. I can see the fish move out and let the gear go past when I use short leaders. The long leaders (I forgot to mention 6lb. and even 4lb.) are less visible and put the "bait" farther from the weight. I found that this catches more fish in crystal clear water. Now that I think more about it, I usually use 4-6ft leaders and seldom go as much as 10ft. It is a lot of fun playing a Coho on 4lb. test. You need a buddy that can tail them as you'll never pull it on shore with 4lb. All I'm saying is try it. I works for me and may work for you. If you don't like it don't use it. This forum is about sharing ideas. I've learned some new things since joining in June. One should have been "never mention long leaders" ;D
I don't use this meathod with roe, only wool.
I saw a guy BB the vedder (at Lickman) yesterday night on my way home from Kelowna. The guy beside him was playing one on a float ;D
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6-10 ft leaders with wool!!!! Aye Carumba!!! Is it july again?
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if they are fresh fish in the system, they will bite even a 6inches leader with a 1/0 hook in gin clear water. And if the fish are fresh, they wounld not be leader shy, they are so aggrasive, will take anything even a 15lb leader with a 3/0 hooks. Thats why they hit on big spoons and spinners. But when it come to stale fish, that they been pounded million times then yea, they will scare off even with a 10 foot or 4lb leader. There are lots of fresh fish in the system, just have to look for it. Don;t have to fish like you fishing in the Fraser. Anyway, goodluck fishing.
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Steelhead King brought up an excellent point. The main purpose of fishing with a short float depth is to specifically target fresher fish that are more aggressive. It's a discriminating way to fish if you are picky about what goes on the end of your line.
A couple of other things I want to point out is that:
I don't believe weight would actually scare the fish off. First of all, your offering is drifting ahead of your weight. The fish sees your offering first, not the weight. Secondly, use smaller weights. I generally like to stick with a small float like a Drennan Zeppler #2 or 3, which only require around 1oz of weight to balance. Another option is to use split shots.
Secondly, a long leader under the float does not work too well in shallow faster flowing water from my previous experience. Longer leader allows the offering to float up, missing the intended target zone. It may work better in deeper slots, but I don't know, I generally stick with waters between 3 to 4 feet in depth.
Um, SK, 3/0? We're trying to hook a fish here, not gaff it. ;)
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Yup! Deep slow slots (no riffle). If you know Allison Pool ::) I'm talking much slower drift (about 1 mile per hour). I prefer spots on the Vedder/Chilliwack and Chehalis that are tough to get to. I fished limit hole once about 15 years ago and won't be back. I fish for the enjoyment of it and don't need the BS that goes on up there. There's lots of river to fish.
As for wool, I like using it because it's clean and effective. I can't stand using roe, but I do break down from time to time. I started as a fly fisher and that's probably why. If fish will bite featers, why do you need bait. I'm going to try roe sacks this year and see if I like it better that way.
Tight lines!
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I agree Grumman, if a fish will bite feathers why use roe. Also, if a fish will bite short leaders why use 6-10 ft? hehehehe
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Yeah, I don't use roe often too grumman. Using wool or spoons means more time your lure is in the water.
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AHHHH! Enough already! I'm feeling persecuted and I don't even snag Coho (sockeye I will admit to flossing). On Thanksgiving weekend I'm going to pre-tie 12- 12" 10lb. leaders for me & my dad. I'm also going to use roe. However, my bellypack is full of wool & it's going to come out sometime during the day ;D
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Ya I agree, lets not go to a flossing debate. I have to add though that I don't find roe that messy, mine stays on for a long time. I think split shot is the way to go, its all I use, with a #3 drennen.
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As many are aware ::), my opinion on long leaders is not a fond one. ;D In the Vedder they are useless as they whip around uncontrollably and are hard for a fish to willingly grab if it is even in the strike zone.
But tongue in cheek aside on such topics, I would like to know what the deal is with loooooonnnnnggggg floats.
For example, I was watching a guy fishing below the Vedder Br in the slot against the rip-rap. The water here is about 4 feet. He was fishing about a 30" leader and a rod length (10 ft) of float above the weight. During the drift, the float did nothing but bob peacefully on its side. It only went under when the weight got hung up on the bottom for longer then 10 seconds. Any fish stopping the weight by grabbing the hook would have let go FAR before the float could indicate anything. When the float did go down, quite frequently per drift which I assumed to be due to the bottom, there was a huge belly in the line between his weight and the float. When he struck which also was very frequent, it made a huge RRRRIIIPPPP!!!! sound which scared the old lady who happened to be walking her dog behind him. This probably doesnt do much for the mood of any fish in a mile radius either. Even though I was observing this with as open of a mind as possible, I frankly could not see any more sense in it now then I do any other time.
I see many many people fishing the Vedder this way. What is the thought on this? Even though Im being silly in my example of this situation, I am genuinely curious so please dont get mad at me thinking Im starting a flossing debate. ;D
Also, if Im hijacking this topic, sorry. Maybe Rodney would like to move it someplace more appropriate?
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Good point Gordie. I see it all the time. I would like to think it's ignorance but I suspect that it's another flossing technique. The float appears to make it look like the angler is float fishing
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Wow Gord, excellent topic. Basically these guys just don't know how to drift fish, I can't say it any other way. I see it all the time, I don't think its always intentional but most of these guys are flossing. You can see thier float bouncing and dipping all the way down the drift. They have a float on but they are actually bottom bouncing. They give a big swish of the rod every time the float goes down from getting stuck on a rock. Maybe they have'nt been shown how to fish properly and just need a friendly suggestion. Fishermen tend to have a big ego often and don't like to be given tips, but if you are catching fish consistently next to these guys and strike up a friendly conversation they will listen to a few ideas. - such as keeping the wieghts off the bottom so your bait is just above it, right in the strike zone. With your float now sitting straight up and drifting freely, there's no question when the float goes down-it's a fish.
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Bug Pumper, Fish Assassin, I agree on both replies.
Happily there has actually been times when Ive been getting fish and the guy fishing next to me fishing too deep was receptive to my respectful suggestions. Nice to see them get into a fish and not have to waste time with the foul hooks, getting snagged up, and breaking off so frequently. The added bonus of no more ripping sounds from striking all the time makes a calmer place to fish.
To share techniques and help each other is part of fishing the way I learnt it. I like it when I can do so.
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Bug Pumper, 2:40 & FA you guys are right on the mark. You don't need super long leaders to floss. WOOL by itself is always the main ingredient. Flossin' can be done with a 12" leader. Tiny pieces of wool that look like river flotsam is a deadly fouling tool. The fish do not move when it comes & bam they're on. I know fish will take wool by itself, but more often than not they are fouled. Use roe, fish eat roe.
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It's hard to fish roe when fishing so deep as it falls off due to all the striking.
If you leave the roe in the sun for a week, maybe it would work alright though... ;)
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Gordie, I think what you are observing is a variation on "dead floating' technique. What happens is that the lure or bait would bounce aroung the bottom as it partially drift. When the weight get parially snag the pulling motion to unsnag would entice the fish to strike. Hence, that same unsnagging action also sets the hook.
I read an article about this by Vic Carrao.
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I know what you are saying jack but thats not whats going on in these observations, its just plain inexperience.
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In cases like that, I never give unsolicited advice on how to fish. I feel that it is part of 'respecting the way other people fish' --as stated in the fishing regulations hand book. If they ask, I would tell them --otherwise, I would just l laugh internally as they are providing me with free entertaiment.
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I agree, its usually not a good idea to offer advice when it hasn't been asked for. If someone see's that you are doing well and asks " what are you useing?" then you have a chance to help out. Catching talks and BS walks.
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Gordie, I think what you are observing is a variation on "dead floating' technique. What happens is that the lure or bait would bounce aroung the bottom as it partially drift. When the weight get parially snag the pulling motion to unsnag would entice the fish to strike. Hence, that same unsnagging action also sets the hook.
That a new one on me. ::)
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Gordie, I think what you are observing is a variation on "dead floating' technique. What happens is that the lure or bait would bounce aroung the bottom as it partially drift. When the weight get parially snag the pulling motion to unsnag would entice the fish to strike. Hence, that same unsnagging action also sets the hook.
That a new one on me. ::)
You're talking about this article (http://www.guidebc.com/articles/floatnspin.asp)? The last two paragraphs.
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Yes, Rod.
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Ok I can buy into this method using a lure or a blade but if using just wool it would be just you know what in most cases. ::)
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No Chris. Dead floating technique has nothing to do with snagging or flossing. I'd been using this technique for the last 25 yrs. or so. It works on walleye, pike, muskie, bass, salmon and many others. You can use lures or bait --it doesn't matter. It works well when you are using roe to catch salmon. The movement, I think, creates a now or never proposition to the fish and the fish's instincts take over.
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This is a new one to me too, and I am not entirely sold on this idea yet either. Setting your float 6 inches deeper than the water is much different then setting it 6 feet plus deeper. Lifting or raising a rod tip as Vic says is also much different then the two handed strike I see with this 'method' Im currently exploring.
What is the need for a float if its just going to be 'dead' anyway?? ;D j/k
I have found slightly dragging bottom, for example at a tailout, to have scored a fish. But never dragging so much as to have to constantly strike and pull at it to get it off the bottom. I am a fan of changing a presentation yes, but not to the point that Im breaking off on the bottom and foul hooking/flossing fish at an unreasonable rate.
Being honest, I do wonder on the times at a tailout drift when Ive hooked a fish. When the float goes down I lift up gently to determine if it is a fish or bottom as Im well aware it is probably a rock, but on the uncommon times it does go down, it is often a fish. I still dont think they are grabbing it after the float goes down as the float rarely goes down in the first place so the occurances of me 'lifting up on it' are few. When the fish is there, it is there immediately as far as I can tell and isnt grabbing after I pull out off the rocks. But if this method does work, then wow, as the ratio to hooks ups to 'lifting up' is fairly high.
Im respectfully curious, Matuka Jack, at how many foul hookings do you experience with this dead float method fishing salmon in a river? I guess this depends on how you free the hook from the rocks, something Id assume would be more effective (bite friendly instead of snag friendly) if done gently instead of a nostrils flairing, two handed strike. Fishing this way in a lake for pike and bass etc would be similar to buzz bombing and fishing jigs I would assume?
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On the river the flow rate is different on the bottom than it is on the surface. The bottom of the river with large rocks have some dead spot where fish rest. The float makes your presentation get drag by the faster waterflow on the surface. You don't really use the float as indicator of strike.
On the lake where there is not much water movement the float is used as a way to deflect the angle of the rod movement. So, the jerking motion of the rod translate to a more vertical movement of your presentation.
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Sounds like someones trolling! Any more biters?
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Sounds like someones trolling! Any more biters?
Actually I think he's float fishing ;D
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Bug Pumper, Fish Assassin, I agree on both replies.
Happily there has actually been times when Ive been getting fish and the guy fishing next to me fishing too deep was receptive to my respectful suggestions. Nice to see them get into a fish and not have to waste time with the foul hooks, getting snagged up, and breaking off so frequently. The added bonus of no more ripping sounds from striking all the time makes a calmer place to fish.
To share techniques and help each other is part of fishing the way I learnt it. I like it when I can do so.
Totally agree with you. And this site is about sharing information in a freindly manner. When I was first introduced to river fishing, I was told that if you were not on bottom you were not catching fish. 20 years later, I have come to the conclusion, thanks to advice from other anglers , some of whom are my freinds to this day, that if you are on bottom, you are snagged. Fish primarily look up. If they choose, they go for it. Please don't slag me if I choose to use a long leader in very select conditions. You won't find me with a leader longer than 18" in a run like lickman. Dead slow is the only place that I have found them effective, and not on the bottom. It works for me. I will still use long leaders in those very few conditions (there is only one place on the vedder if find it usefull). Those ripping sounds are from snaggers. You can observe them all day "swinnging for a home run" and it bugs me too. There is a sifferent feeling from a rock to a fish and you will never learn the difference if you're slamming every time there is a bump. I'll see you on the river & we can share some good times.