Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: dennisK on September 13, 2021, 10:41:26 AM
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I've fished this spot on the vedder -thought it was legal on the rocks? Is it?
utube Link:
https://youtu.be/QdbIZ5Gs9Fs
(https://i.ibb.co/vJMzDvD/2021-09-13-104207.jpg)
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The property line would terminate at the high water mark. Below that it is public. That the bank has been engineered (rip rapped) suggests the high bank was not stable so if nature followed it's course the property line might be well back from where the woman was standing. But that is her property and I wonder how those 2 accessed the rip rap. Land titles has all that mapped out and it could be on line. I think the trespass act states property owners have to put up both signage and barriers to alert the public access is not available. These conflicts seem to be becoming more and more common. Last time it happened to me someone across the river told me I was trespassing. When I asked if it was his property he didn't answer just repeated it was private, I was trespassing and I had to leave. If this "Karen" won't say where the property line is - it won't go to the water's edge, you could just ignore her. My guess she is obligated to do that much.
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Same spot you posted about here?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=43709.0
Looks like the still don't want you to fish there!
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That “Karen” is probably the property owner of the house behind the bank. I gather this is at Wilson road. Frankly I don’t blame her. I have fished there for 2 decades and they have been very tolerant of anglers walking through their back yard to access the runs downstream. Last year they had enough. People littering and defecating on their property. So they had the city build the fence to block access to the pathway,
. I don’t know if she has any right though of kicking people out of fishing on the boulders but it seems this is an example of how inconsiderate people who act like pigs get fishing access closed.
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Same spot you posted about here?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=43709.0
Looks like the still don't want you to fish there!
Thanks for this Clarki.
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Same spot you posted about here?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=43709.0
Looks like the still don't want you to fish there!
(https://i.ibb.co/YZDtHVJ/wilson-road431-n.jpg)
interesting. Note the path (now blocked by the fence and concrete). In case law a path such as that is an invitation to enter the property so the FVRD brought the problem on by building it.
We are seeing and will see much more of this as the years go by. If you take the Serpentine River in Surrey as an example. Most of the once 'public' access point are now blocked by chain link right to the river edge. Same thing is happening on the Nicomekl. This is just to keep people off dykes made with public funds. They serve no other purpose.Near as I can find this has occurred without public consultation. We need to think of ways to control this and to control angler numbers in such spots.
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Well from the idiots who are shining high powered lights directly into the house, leaving garbage, smearing poop on plants, loud talking and someone trying to assault his dog at 2-3am (story I got was that someone threw rocks at his dog and he had to bring her to the vet to make sure she was ok) I don't blame them honestly.
I've talked to the guy before and he is pretty chill, his dog will bark at strangers but she won't bite cause you are passing through their property and she is a nice dog as well having fished that area a lot in the past.
All it takes is a few idiots with no consideration for others to shut everything down for everyone else.
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I have fished that spot a few times since the sign went up but out of respect and to avoid hassle I only fish at the streets end.
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I suspect something may have happened before that was not caught on video and might be unfavourable to the fishermen who posted it.
I fished that spot for the first time earlier this year, but walking up from downriver there are no signs. I was totally unaware there were any signs until I left and passed the fencing in the picture. A couple with a golden retriever and a stroller saw me, hung around for a bit, and thats it.
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This has been this way for 3 decades atleast. The water rights to that property is mid river, so yes you are trespassing. The owner who sold more than 20 years ago was ok with people fishing there, all other owners have not been ok with it for many reasons already mentioned.
When I was approx. 20 years old and the first new owners started to kick people out I waited for RCMP to show up. They provided an explanation that would suggest the owners have the right to allow or not allow you there. I have never been back.
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This has been this way for 3 decades atleast. The water rights to that property is mid river, so yes you are trespassing. The owner who sold more than 20 years ago was ok with people fishing there, all other owners have not been ok with it for many reasons already mentioned.
When I was approx. 20 years old and the first new owners started to kick people out I waited for RCMP to show up. They provided an explanation that would suggest the owners have the right to allow or not allow you there. I have never been back.
Maybe they are liable if they let someone enter the property and the slip on a rock and hurt themselves.
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yes they could be liable.
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The water rights to that property is mid river, so yes you are trespassing.
Mid river as in the middle of the river? Are
you kidding?
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Mid river as in the middle of the river? Are
you kidding?
I'd be very careful with that claim. Almost no waters in BC have this kind of title. I have never heard of it on Vedder/Chilliwack. In some cases the Province provides 'tenure' rights to an owner but they do no automatically transfer when the property is sold. Another confusion is when property owned is eroded away, literally swept downstream during floods. Some owners may think they now own all the land down to the lowest water level. in fact the land they owned is now smaller by whatever part the river or stream carried away and the new title mark is the high water mark. Owners have a right to install or construct approved erosion protections such as riprap but I don't know they own all of it including that portion below the natural high water mark.
if anyone is interested in leaning more here are a couple related papers:
https://www.obwb.ca/fileadmin/docs/riparian_2008_bc_government.pdf
https://www.younganderson.ca/assets/seminar_papers/2013/2013-Water-Law-101-gc.pdf
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The last straw was last falls salmon season at Wilson rd when the hordes of anglers were leaving all kinds of garbage and even taking craps on the property. I have fished through there last winter for steelhead after the fence went up and property owners were okay with me being there because I was respectful and didnt leave any garbage behind. They seem to have the city of Chilliwack supporting the installation of the fence.
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The city works so hard to keep tax paying normal Joe's off the path but doesn't blink an eye when an illegal meth lab blows up on the river like last winter.
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Mid river as in the middle of the river? Are
you kidding?
This is exactly what I was told by the RCMP almost 27 years ago. Didn't matter much to me as there was plenty of water to fish back then.
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Wiseguy, unfortunately the whole river is becoming a garbage dump/toilet and it’s not just anglers who are the culprits. Sad state of affairs.
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https://maps.fvrd.ca/portal/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=eae55e6da5f14e11a9a5e07a78f339c5
here's a link to the districts mapping page. the property line in question does appear to extend into the river a few meters but not to the middle of the river.
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https://maps.fvrd.ca/portal/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=eae55e6da5f14e11a9a5e07a78f339c5
here's a link to the districts mapping page. the property line in question does appear to extend into the river a few meters but not to the middle of the river.
Thanks, I was going to post the same link that shows property boundaries at this location.
If you change the base map to show an air photograph, you will see that the property at 4298 WILSON RD used to extend a few metres into the river. However, that piece of the property has been lost to the river due to erosion and further erosion has been prevented by creation of the dyke. It should be noted that this property does not encompass the entire dyke and runs parallel with the dyke, on the east side, for approximately 160 m. Only a relatively short section of the dyke is actually encompassed by the property, which extends approximately 26 m south of the new fence. Therefore, if you are standing on the dyke more than say 30 m south of the fence this is public property, although I doubt the property owner will admit to this.
Other relevant information of note:
Waterways, including stream and lake beds are crown property.
The Canadian Navigable Water Act provides the public with free and unobstructed right of passage over navigable waters and the public right of landing from and mooring boats and vessels.
Navigable water is typically defined as anything that you can reasonably use a canoe on.
There is no right or implied right to cross private property to reach navigable water.
The lateral extent of a navigable water body is generally defined by the high water mark, which in BC is further defined as the natural boundary where there is a change in vegetation or soil owing to the continued presence of water.
It is unclear if the fence that was constructed below the high water mark is legal or if it requires approval from the Crown.
In conclusion, my lay interpretation is that if you are standing below the high water mark (where ever that is) or on the dyke more than 30 m south of the fence, you should be good to go.
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I agree with Knnn. Below the highwater mark should be ok for angling. It would have made more send for the property owners to fence their land along the top of the dyke trail and back into their yard with appropriate signage. that's what was done at the spot known as fort Apache.
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I agree with Knnn. Below the highwater mark should be ok for angling. It would have made more send for the property owners to fence their land along the top of the dyke trail and back into their yard with appropriate signage. that's what was done at the spot known as fort Apache.
I will suggest this to the owners next time I see them! ::)
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I will suggest this to the owners next time I see them! ::)
note:
I fished that spot for the first time earlier this year, but walking up from downriver there are no signs. I was totally unaware there were any signs until I left and passed the fencing in the picture.
so their fence and signage is totally ineffectual and bound to lead to continued conflict. They also will be unable to sue for trespass since the gate and fence at the east end doesn't meet the requirements of the Trespass act. neither the owners or FVRD did their homework.
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https://maps.fvrd.ca/portal/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=eae55e6da5f14e11a9a5e07a78f339c5
here's a link to the districts mapping page. the property line in question does appear to extend into the river a few meters but not to the middle of the river.
Very useful link, thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/N4txmAZ.jpg)
Whoever who fishes there should screenshot or print out the boundaries in case they get hassled.
Assuming the satellite images are still accurate, it seems you cannot get to the water from upstream without crossing a little bit of the private boundary. May be ok from downstream depending on where the river currently flows and water level.
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There was a piece of river in the FVRD that I wanted to fish. A section of private property blocked my access, however the GIS map indicated an FSR through the property and an adjacent parcel in the river itself that was identified "Return to Crown" I was curious if the (abandoned) FSR was a public easement and if the "return to crown" parcel was indeed crown land.
I emailed the Planning Department from the FVRD website, received a next day email back from a real live Planning Technician with an invitation to call her direct line. So I did. I explained that I was an angler not wanting to be shot at by a landowner :) and we had a very informative conversation.
The tools exist to have curious and respectful conversations and get the information you are looking for.
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its for sale if anyone here wants to own those rocks.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23275937/4298-wilson-road-chilliwack
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My bad, this is an entirely didn't property than the one I was thinking of.
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Interesting.
Looked at the photos.
I see they have 5 or 6 photos with views of the river, all of them Pre-Berlin wall.
Maybe the goal is for the wall to come down and restore the area to it's pre cold war conflict appearance?
Dano
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that dyke is the only thing keeping those properties safe.
the property lines were probably drawn up in 1968 when that house was built. who knows if the dyke was even there then. i bet at one time there was a bank there and slowly its been eroded to where a high water event could threaten the properties, than they built the dyke and never changed the property line. there is no way that would fly today.
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i bet at one time there was a bank there and slowly its been eroded to where a high water event could threaten the properties, than they built the dyke and never changed the property line. there is no way that would fly today.
This seems a plausible explanation. Based on the photo, the dyke seems to cross in and out of the property line at multiple points, which suggests something ad hoc instead of planned...
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Don’t put to much thought in Thoes lines on the photo. They are probably way off from where the property pins or stakes are.
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I can remember a long time ago when that house was empty all the time. Never saw a soul.
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Yup. The windows were boarded up every winter.
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Yes.
I fished there 30 years ago.
At that time, I believe I met the owner once or twice.
I do not think they were living there by this time, but would come to check and do some upkeep.
Windows were not boarded up initially, and the house was somewhat kept, but you could tell it was in some decline.
As I remember, the last name was Robson, or Robertson, and I believe he was a doctor.
The run just below the property is called "The Doctor's Run", and I believe may be named after him? Unsure.
But, by the late 1990's, things were changing.
I remember being there one Saturday in October and it looked like rocks had been thrown through the sheet glass windows where the front porch was.
The following weekend, I showed up to see plywood sheets over the windows and things shuttered up.
After that, the property and house seem to go downhill, and I never saw anyone around again after that.
Dano