Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on June 01, 2020, 10:42:47 AM

Title: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 01, 2020, 10:42:47 AM
As mentioned a couple of months ago, DFO resource managers in Region 2 have decided to review all recreational salmon openings for region 2 rivers. This revision was supposed to be completed and presented to the SFAC by the end of the last licence year. It wasn't, so all rivers were listed as no fishing for salmon until further notice once the new licence year rolled in, instead of leaving them as they were while the review is being completed.

This was brought up immediately on April 1st, and I and other representatives of the SFAC were told that the review would be completed by May and no previously existing salmon fisheries should be impacted. We emphasized how important it is to have this done in advance so there is enough time for the announcement prior to each fishery opening.

Now that we are on June 1st, the day when Chehalis River usually opens for chinook salmon fishing, no revised regulations have been presented to us. An email was sent out by me on the weekend to address this, and I have now been informed that the review has not been completed yet but the department hopes to do so soon (in the next few weeks).

This means you will now miss most, if not all, of the Chehalis River chinook salmon fishery, and possibly Chilliwack/Vedder River's chinook salmon fishery in July.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on June 01, 2020, 11:06:06 AM
While I agree it should have been done by now, aren't the Chehalis summer chinook from the same stock as the Chilliwack fish, and therefore have the same approximate run timing?  So they generally show up in July?  I remember seeing steelhead in the Chehalis in June (back when the hatchery was still producing summer steelhead), but I don't recall ever seeing or hooking any chinook in the Chehalis before July.  Granted, it has been over 10 years since I've even been to that river, and probably close to 20 since I fished it in the summer.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on June 01, 2020, 11:08:11 AM
Your Sage advice to me a couple years ago about focusing on trout fishing more and stop complaining about salmon fisheries being shut down is the reality.

To me id be surprised if they open a fraser tributary before giving the first nations a wide scale FSC fishery.

That said for things to open up people have to put pressure on DFO and goverment.  Every where we turn we are loosing access and if you have not joined one of the many groups fighting for our acess you should!

Enough is enough!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on June 01, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
to be honest i am not surprised after hearing the conflicts between first nations and recreational fisherman last year on the chehalis. unfortunately a few bad actors might have ruined it for everyone. meat fisheries can sometimes bring the worst out in people. be respectful out there people.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: avid angler on June 01, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Your Sage advice to me a couple years ago about focusing on trout fishing more and stop complaining about salmon fisheries being shut down is the reality.

To me id be surprised if they open a fraser tributary before giving the first nations a wide scale FSC fishery.

That said for things to open up people have to put pressure on DFO and goverment.  Every where we turn we are loosing access and if you have not joined one of the many groups fighting for our acess you should!

Enough is enough!

The chilliwack and chehalis hatchery fishery never has and never will have anything to do with fsc fisheries. For those interested their already has been multiple fsc fisheries on the Fraser.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 01, 2020, 11:57:05 AM
to be honest i am not surprised after hearing the conflicts between first nations and recreational fisherman last year on the chehalis. unfortunately a few bad actors might have ruined it for everyone. meat fisheries can sometimes bring the worst out in people. be respectful out there people.

For the time being, I'd like to think this has been just sloppy work as usual. I've seen it time and time again in the past two decades while dealing with the region's resource management. The absence of sense in urgency is infuriating, simply because the individuals who are responsible for this do not fish and do not have a good understanding on what recreational fishing is.

That being said, I was involved in dialogues with Chehalis First Nation regarding the incidents on the Chehalis last July, so it also wouldn't surprise me that it has something to do with it.

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 01, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
While I agree it should have been done by now, aren't the Chehalis summer chinook from the same stock as the Chilliwack fish, and therefore have the same approximate run timing?  So they generally show up in July?  I remember seeing steelhead in the Chehalis in June (back when the hatchery was still producing summer steelhead), but I don't recall ever seeing or hooking any chinook in the Chehalis before July.  Granted, it has been over 10 years since I've even been to that river, and probably close to 20 since I fished it in the summer.

That's correct. Realistically fishing throughout this month will be slow but it is important to keep reminding these people to do their job. Once fishing opportunities are omitted, they rarely are remembered and brought back. As fishing times shrink, pressure increases and the quality of these fisheries we have left would just keep declining. I also want to make sure this is all in the email record. I don't want to be having this same discussion on September 1st when we are getting ready to fish for coho salmon on the Vedder.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on June 01, 2020, 12:24:53 PM
The chilliwack and chehalis hatchery fishery never has and never will have anything to do with fsc fisheries. For those interested their already has been multiple fsc fisheries on the Fraser.

Only limited fsc (according to FN and dfo) not wide scale fsc .

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 01, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
I think it's 5 or 6 weeks before the Chilliwack summer really starts to produce much of a catch.

There have been 17 openings below Hope per the DF website and 15 chinook reported as caught.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: poper on June 01, 2020, 01:26:46 PM
Would fishing for Steelhead be considered fishing for salmon?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: avid angler on June 01, 2020, 01:32:32 PM
I think it's 5 or 6 weeks before the Chilliwack summer really starts to produce much of a catch.

There have been 17 openings below Hope per the DF website and 15 chinook reported as caught.
I hope you don’t actually believe that lol
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 01, 2020, 05:55:07 PM
At least it is a number. No doubt it's not inclusive but exactly what the number of 'excluded' fish is can't be known. There is also the question of how many fish died do to the harvest method - ie gill nets.

If you look at the long history of sport angler self reporting vs actual results from creel survey's it's pretty certain that anglers vastly over report how many fish they have caught and the number of days they fished by about a third or more. So that tells us anglers can't be relied upon either.

Or put another way there is solid evidence to support the old couplet:

Is it true that fishermen always lie
or do only liars fish?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: firstlight on June 02, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
Im sure they know exactly when the regulations will be released.
They have a plan but we arent part of it.

There will be nothing left of this sport for our kids and also some of us.
Is disgusting what they have taken away from sportsfishermen.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: chris gadsden on June 03, 2020, 09:05:57 AM
Im sure they know exactly when the regulations will be released.
They have a plan but we arent part of it.

There will be nothing left of this sport for our kids and also some of us.
Is disgusting what they have taken away from sportsfishermen.
All I have left is good memories and videos of the great bar fishing and camping trip on the Fraser River with my boys and friends in years past. At this time of year we would be fishing the creek mouths in the Fraser Canyon. With the highwater this year it would be good, I will go for a visit to these creeks soon and think of those good times, at least I will be able to pick some wild berries there.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 03, 2020, 09:46:21 AM
Man I loved the creek mouth fishing with my dad.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on June 03, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
All I have left is good memories and videos of the great bar fishing and camping trip on the Fraser River with my boys and friends in years past. At this time of year we would be fishing the creek mouths in the Fraser Canyon. With the highwater this year it would be good, I will go for a visit to these creeks soon and think of those good times, at least I will be able to pick some wild berries there.

"The good old days"
I miss these fisheries and am very saddened my kids will not be able to give their kids the same experience that they were lucky enough to be part of in a small way. 
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: firstlight on June 03, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
All I have left is good memories and videos of the great bar fishing and camping trip on the Fraser River with my boys and friends in years past. At this time of year we would be fishing the creek mouths in the Fraser Canyon. With the highwater this year it would be good, I will go for a visit to these creeks soon and think of those good times, at least I will be able to pick some wild berries there.

I got into bar fishing long after you did Chris so i can only imagine the hurt you must feel with todays state of affairs.
Im allmost at the point where im just going to start fishing again and they can stick there regulations where the Sun dont shine.
Just think that for the last bunch of years the old timers cant even bar fish the old bars on the lower river where they were lucky if they caught a few Coho per season.
It has gotten out of hand and is time we just went fishing anyways.

My family depends on Salmon too.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Wiseguy on June 03, 2020, 11:15:18 PM
I grew up bar rigging for Coho down at Brownsville bar. Those were some great times. Some colourful characters were regulars there. Lying Larry. Curly. Barnacle Bill and others. Everyone knew each other. It was so much fun. On occasion someone would hook a sturgeon! Lol. Sad state of affairs of what it has become nowadays.  :'(
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Fish Assassin on June 04, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
Lots of dollies back then. They would catch them 2 at the time on the bar rigs.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 04, 2020, 09:46:52 AM
Lots of dolly doubles on the bar rig in lower Fraser way back when as well
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 04, 2020, 11:01:16 AM
How far back? From what I recall from the 60s and 70s we seldom even saw a Dolly around Ft Langley, let alone a double. I know there are more below the Pitt confluence.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 04, 2020, 11:24:26 AM
Not sure about the other post but I’m referring to late 70s early 80s. Mouth of the Fraser. Middle arm mostly because it was minutes from my house on my bike.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 04, 2020, 11:28:40 AM
Still the odd nice one around.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: firstlight on June 04, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
now they call them Bull Trout but back then i never heard the term Bull Trout and we all called them Dollies.
Caught 99.99% of mine in the lower Pitt River.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 04, 2020, 01:11:32 PM
I fished the upper Pitt a fair amount in the 90s. There’s some beauties up there.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on June 04, 2020, 09:43:57 PM
ive caught all types of bull trout or dolley varden. there is definitely a few different species

dolly varden seem to have different head shape and colors
(https://i.imgur.com/nGKxaCi.jpg)

sea run bull trout are real chrome and have firm bodies with a short head
(https://i.imgur.com/HEaI0u1.jpg)

this one i have more problems identifying. was caught in a local lake. seems to have characteristics of both
 (https://i.imgur.com/kCUxlQH.jpg)


Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on June 04, 2020, 09:44:47 PM
Still the odd nice one around.

lots of nices ones still around
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 05, 2020, 06:36:46 AM
That’s good to hear
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 05, 2020, 08:38:23 AM
Based on the photos I'd say all three are bulls but no doubt identification isn't easy. The size of the head relative to the body and the D shaped body profile (with the straight left side of the D being the belly) is supposedly the best visual indication. The 2nd specimen is a magnificent fish whichever species it is.

ive caught all types of bull trout or dolley varden. there is definitely a few different species

dolly varden seem to have different head shape and colors
(https://i.imgur.com/nGKxaCi.jpg)

sea run bull trout are real chrome and have firm bodies with a short head
(https://i.imgur.com/HEaI0u1.jpg)

this one i have more problems identifying. was caught in a local lake. seems to have characteristics of both
 (https://i.imgur.com/kCUxlQH.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: typhoon on June 08, 2020, 09:32:38 AM
These all look like Bull Trout to me too. Upper jaw extends past the eye is one indicator of Bull Trout vs Dolly Varden.

https://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/fish_biology/dolly_varden_and_bull_trout.html
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: clarki on June 08, 2020, 10:33:31 AM
Caught 99.99% of mine in the lower Pitt River.

I enjoyed that fishery too, with my sons, for several years. It was perfect for kids: warm days and good numbers of fish. I still remember one tank of a fish my son caught. Well over 5 pounds and the drag on his little Zebco closed face reel screeching like long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Although I did become uncomfortable with using bait for a catch and release fishery. Often I would cut the line rather than attempt to remove the hook on a deep-hooked fish,  and was going to try circle hooks, but we tailed off enjoying that fishery and I haven’t gone again in a number of years.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on June 08, 2020, 12:39:15 PM
If fishing bull trout during any kind of salmon spawning use beads. Their killer. Bull trout hold in slower deeper seems.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 09, 2020, 03:01:02 PM
Good afternoon, I was wondering if there is any update on when the review of fishing regulations/opportunities will be completed? The normal June opening of the Chehalis is going by fast! And July is coming for some other rivers. I noticed the Capilano river has been updated, but not others.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 09, 2020, 03:24:06 PM
No updates.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: fishman1 on June 09, 2020, 04:44:47 PM
I sent an email to DFO today asking about these fisheries.  I did get a response  (very quickly I would add) from Dean Allan "Area Chief Resource Management, Fraser and Interior Area" ,  part of his response was "We will be meeting with a small group of the Sport Fish Advisory Board  (SFAB) later this week to review any proposed changes.  We  are hoping to have Fishery Notice out later next week announcing the region # 2 opportunities.

Hope this helps and we do actually get an update next week.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 09, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
fishman1, thanks for the update...fingers crossed for reasonable fishing opportunities in the upcoming information....
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: chris gadsden on June 11, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
June 10, 2020

Fisheries & Oceans Canada

Att: Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General

Please be advised the undersigned organizations have grave concerns regarding the perceived indifference toward the Fraser River mainstream and tributary recreational salmon opportunities. We have attempted for many years to work with your Department both within the SFAB process and outside. We have offered support in encouraging our members to fish selectively. Stakeholders have persistently tried to work with DFO for over TWENTY years toward implementing positive regulations for truly selective public fisheries. To date our attempts have been futile with the usual frustrating bureaucratic delays and obstacles.

We have worked with First Nations toward establishing respectful collaborative venues committed to solving conflict on the river and preserving stocks for our respective future generations. We recognize that cooperation between all sectors is a key factor going forward. We remain optimistic our joint efforts will produce positive results.

What do we get for our efforts? Closures on tributaries normally open June 1st and a vague commitment to review when a Regulation Review for Region 2 is completed. This review was initially introduced at a Feb sfac meeting as a DFO initiative which would include full consultation with the Recreational community. Why has it taken uproar from our sector to initiate discussions with us regarding this review? Meanwhile rivers remain closed.

Had our organizations known the completion of this review would dictate ongoing closures. we would have questioned the validity of this arbitrary review and demanded completion well before June 1st. We must ask what scenarios dictated this review and what sectors have been consulted to date? We must ask what is the intent of this review as current regulations are restrictive and any mortality impact on non targeted species is very low.

DFO must very seriously consider our current frustrations and growing anger In dealing with an agency which demonstrates little regard for our fisheries and does not offer the respect we deserve as Canadian citizens. We will no longer stand by while our priceless Canadian fishing heritage is eliminated for our children and grandchildren.

We expect immediate reopening of the Chehalis River fishery and other Fraser tributaries. We also expect opening of the Fraser mainstream to recreational chinook fishing in August following passage of stocks of concern. We continue to offer support toward selective bar fisheries at that time to eliminate any impact on other species considered at risk. This is an example of the public fishery offering constructive regulation review for many years to no avail

We sincerely hope you appreciate that our patience is at an end with many calling for serious actions to preserve this tremendous social and economic fishery. We do not abdicate our conservation responsibilities but demand that we be treated equitably in any allocation of stocks. As you are aware our concerns re lack of equitable treatment for the public fishery are mirrored coast wide. We suggest that DFO must ensure that all changes contemplated for the public fishery be presented and consultation take place in a comprehensive transparent and timely fashion.

We thank you for your immediate attention to our very serious concerns and your timely response.


B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers
Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance
Fraser Valley Salmon Society
Fraser Valley Guides Association
Vancouver Sport Fishing Guides Association
Public Fisheries Alliance
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: firstlight on June 11, 2020, 06:54:15 PM
Very well written and to the point.
Thanks to whoever penned this letter.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Dave on June 11, 2020, 07:22:58 PM
Agree, kudos to the author
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 11, 2020, 08:52:52 PM
Thanks to all the organizations working to support an equitable public fishery...
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: chris gadsden on June 13, 2020, 10:13:18 AM
Fraser River SportFishing Alliance
14 hrs ·
Yesterday we shared a letter that was collaborated on with the groups in the Alliance.

Today we had a conference call with DFO managers and several representatives of the organizations. Discussion was revolving the current state of closures, why there is a current regulation review and specific rivers that have not opened.

The purpose for the review of regulation was to align the openings on specific rivers to when there actually is salmon in the system. The dates are pretty concise and they actually make sense.

The public can expect to see a fisheries notice pertaining to region 2 in the next week or so.

I would like to thank the directors of the organizations that participated!

Job well done!
Oliver
FRSA
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: FlyFishin Magician on June 13, 2020, 05:12:58 PM
Fraser River SportFishing Alliance
14 hrs ·
Yesterday we shared a letter that was collaborated on with the groups in the Alliance.

Today we had a conference call with DFO managers and several representatives of the organizations. Discussion was revolving the current state of closures, why there is a current regulation review and specific rivers that have not opened.

The purpose for the review of regulation was to align the openings on specific rivers to when there actually is salmon in the system. The dates are pretty concise and they actually make sense.

The public can expect to see a fisheries notice pertaining to region 2 in the next week or so.

I would like to thank the directors of the organizations that participated!

Job well done!
Oliver
FRSA


Thanks for sharing Chris!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 13, 2020, 06:23:46 PM
That is good news about openings in Region 2 being published soon...
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on June 13, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
Fraser River SportFishing Alliance
14 hrs ·
Yesterday we shared a letter that was collaborated on with the groups in the Alliance.

Today we had a conference call with DFO managers and several representatives of the organizations. Discussion was revolving the current state of closures, why there is a current regulation review and specific rivers that have not opened.

The purpose for the review of regulation was to align the openings on specific rivers to when there actually is salmon in the system. The dates are pretty concise and they actually make sense.

The public can expect to see a fisheries notice pertaining to region 2 in the next week or so.

I would like to thank the directors of the organizations that participated!

Job well done!
Oliver
FRSA

👍
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on June 23, 2020, 01:34:55 PM
Fishery Notice
Category(s):RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject:FN0579-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Region 2 - Fraser Watershed Tributary Systems - 2020 Fishery Management Measures

Fisheries and Oceans staff are conducting a review of all Region 2 salmon retention fisheries in 2020 to ensure the regulations align with stocks and species available
for harvest.

The review for Fraser watershed tributary systems has been completed and has led to the following actions. 

Waters: Alouette River and tributaries
 
(Alouette River above 216th Street, including the North Alouette River and tributaries to that part).
Management measures:
Effective April 1, 2020 to August 31, 2020:
- All species: No fishing for salmon

Management measures - Chinook salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to November 30, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is one (1) per day.

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to November 30, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Coho salmon (Catch and release only).

Waters: Alouette River and tributaries
   
(downstream of a line between two fishing boundary signs in Allco Park).

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is one (1) hatchery marked fish per day.

Management measures - Chum salmon: 
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is one (1) per day.

Waters: Chehalis River

(downstream of the logging bridge 2.4 km downstream of Chehalis Lake, including tributaries to that part to the hatchery outlet).

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective immediately to August 31, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Coho salmon (Catch and release only)
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day.

Management measures - Chinook salmon: 
Effective immediately to August 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is one (1) per day.
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is four (4) per day, only one over 62 cm.

Management measures - Chum salmon:
Effective immediately to October 31, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Chum salmon (Catch and release only).
Effective November 1, 2020 to November 30, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is two (2) per day.
Effective December 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Chum salmon (Catch and release only).

Waters: Chilliwack/Vedder River (including Sumas River) 

(from a line between two fishing boundary signs on either side   of the Chilliwack River 100 m from the confluence of the Chilliwack River and Slesse Creek downstream
including that portion of the Sumas River from the Barrow Town Pump Station downstream to fishing boundary signs near the confluence with the Fraser River).

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective July 1, 2020 to August 31, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Coho salmon (catch and release only)
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day.

Management measures - Chinook salmon: 
Effective July 1, 2020 to August 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is one (1) per day.
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is four (4) per day, only two over 62 cm.

Management measures - Chum salmon:
Effective July 1, 2020 to September 30, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Chum salmon (Catch and release only).
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is one (1) per day.

Waters: Coquitlam River

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is one (1) hatchery marked fish per day.

Management measures - Chinook salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
You may fish for but not retain any Chinook salmon (Catch and release only).

Waters: Harrison River
 
(from the outlet of Harrison Lake downstream to the Hwy 7 bridge).

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day.

Management measures - Chum salmon:
Effective September 1, 2020 to September 30, 2020:
 - You may fish for but not retain any Chum salmon (Catch and release only).
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is two (2) per day

Waters:  Kanaka Creek (Downstream of the 112th Street bridge)
 
Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective November 1, 2020 to November 30, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is one (1) hatchery marked fish per day.

Waters: Nicomen (including Dewdney) Slough
 
(from the confluence of Siddle (Bell's) Ck. downstream to the Fraser River)

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day, only two over 35 cm.

Waters: Nicomen (including Dewdney) Slough
 
(From the Highway 7 bridge at Dewdney downstream to the Fraser         
   River)

Management measures - Chum salmon:
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is two (2) per day

Waters:  Norrish (Suicide Creek)
 
Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day, only two over 35 cm.

Waters:  Stave River 
 
(downstream of BC Hydro Dam to the CPR Railway Bridge, except you may not fish for Salmon in that portion of the Stave River, known as the Ruskin Spawning Channel on
the east bank of the BC Hydro park from the inlet near the dam, downstream to the boat ramp crossing)

Management measures - Coho salmon: 
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is four (4) hatchery marked fish per day, only two over 35 cm.

Management measures - Chum salmon:
Effective September 1, 2020 to September 30, 2020:
 - You may fish for but not retain any Chum salmon (Catch and release only).
Effective October 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is two (2) per day

There is no fishing for salmon in any of the rivers or tributaries that flow into the Fraser River except in those areas during the time periods provided above.

Variation Orders: 2020-RCT-309 and 2020-RFQ-310


Notes:

Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal waters of British Columbia.

Anglers are further reminded that intentionally (wilfully) foul-hooking fish or attempting to foul hook fish is illegal and that non-compliance may result in closure
(Foul hook is defined as: Hooking a fish in any part of its body other than the mouth).

Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation?  If so, please call the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line at (800)
465-4336 or the British Columbia's toll-free RAPP line (Report All Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).

For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at 1-(866)431-FISH (3474).


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Contact the nearest Fisheries and Oceans Canada office or visit our website at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca.

Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0579
Sent June 23, 2020 at 1318

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 23, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
At least for the Lower Fraser tributaries, other than what was lost for a Chehalis opening in June, it seems to be pretty much the same as the last few years.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: hammer on June 23, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Can someone clarify about the boundaries....For example, below the hwy7 bridge on the Harrison...what is the hatchery coho limit? Or below the dewdney hwy 7 bridge on nicomen?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Nitroholic on June 23, 2020, 05:50:42 PM
no bonking coho on the chehalis or vedder until september, also reduced summer chinook from 4 (2 over 50) to 1 over 62 on the chehalis.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 23, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
Excellent.... :)... will hopefully spread the fishers around a bit especially on the tiny Chehalis until September...nice to have some chum openings as well...
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 23, 2020, 08:07:26 PM
Chilliwack/ Vedder:

"Management measures - Chinook salmon:
Effective July 1, 2020 to August 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is one (1) per day.
Effective September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is four (4) per day, only two over 62 cm."

it's the same for the Chehalis and I think, IIRC, that is what is was in previous years.

The summer closure on coho for the chehalis may reflect that DFO has finally recognized there is a small summer run there.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on June 23, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
I've never caught a coho in August on the Vedder, but I know it happens - now I guess we can't keep one if we are so lucky.  Also, there have been plenty of chum in the Vedder in September, so pushing back retention to October 1 doesn't make much sense to me unless there is a specific reason they are trying to protect these early fish.

Reducing the summer chinook fisheries to 1 fish per day should help thin out the crowds a bit - at least people won't have a reason to stay after they get one.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: cammer on June 23, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
The regulations mean retention only. ,  in both systems (chehay/ vedder) You can still fish after u kill your one spring a day!  Vedder has sockeye.  Chehay summer runs even though guys basically keep hooking springs for the fun of it !  Let’s hope ol Covid brings rivers full of fish this year?  Has to be some silver lining to this shite
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: cammer on June 23, 2020, 11:05:48 PM
At least for the Lower Fraser tributaries, other than what was lost for a Chehalis opening in June, it seems to be pretty much the same as the last few years.


Ralph. Ever since the hatchery channel lost its source water from the main river ,  the June summer runs basically raced into the canyon Nary to be seen again till a few smart anglers found the schools up near the lake !  That fishery is one of my hugest losses as a local angler I’ve experienced
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on June 24, 2020, 06:32:08 AM
Can someone clarify about the boundaries....For example, below the hwy7 bridge on the Harrison...what is the hatchery coho limit? Or below the dewdney hwy 7 bridge on nicomen?

I think its clear as mud. Its no different than before. The boundaries have always been the same
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 24, 2020, 08:39:47 AM

Ralph. Ever since the hatchery channel lost its source water from the main river ,  the June summer runs basically raced into the canyon Nary to be seen again till a few smart anglers found the schools up near the lake !  That fishery is one of my hugest losses as a local angler I’ve experienced

Sorry to hear that. I know the river flow changes near the hatchery hampered or removed a lot of fishery opportunities but it has nothing to with the salmon regulation review.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 27, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
There is a slight error in the summary regulations for Chinook fishing on the Chehalis River: there is a gap for Chinook fishing from September 1 to September 29: one Chinook per day up to August 31 is allowed and four Chinook per day is allowed from September 30th (gap from September 1 to 29).

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

If you read the actual Fishery Notice FN0579 (click on the link in the summary regulations) it shows the correct number from September 1.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 27, 2020, 07:13:46 PM
All the other non Fraser openings for Region 2 are now posted in the Sport Fishing Guide. I couldn't spot any changes from 2019/20.

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 27, 2020, 08:42:17 PM
There is a slight error in the summary regulations for Chinook fishing on the Chehalis River: there is a gap for Chinook fishing from September 1 to September 29: one Chinook per day up to August 31 is allowed and four Chinook per day is allowed from September 30th (gap from September 1 to 29).

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

If you read the actual Fishery Notice FN0579 (click on the link in the summary regulations) it shows the correct number from September 1.

I'll send that in to get it changed.

Could be worse, it could have said December 30th to December 31st. ;)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: cammer on June 28, 2020, 02:42:54 AM
Was there today ( Chehalis)and what’s abundantly clear is The river is dying a slow death to sports fishing! Traditionally a slow period late June but to not see smolt schools or resident trout or any fish tells me predation amongst these classes is rampant and probably a good source of the recent declines in adult stocks! At least mosquitoes are still thriving
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: hammer on June 28, 2020, 10:29:47 PM
Cammer,
What do you mean predation amongst classes is rampant?
June used to be a wonderful time to fish on that river. That has long since passed
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 29, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
Can someone clarify about the boundaries....For example, below the hwy7 bridge on the Harrison...what is the hatchery coho limit? Or below the dewdney hwy 7 bridge on nicomen?

No fishing for salmon has been put in place for downstream from the Hwy 7 Bridge on the Harrison River.

Nicomen Slough has openings for coho and chum salmon downstream from Hwy 7 Bridge.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

There are some mistakes in the updated freshwater salmon regulations for region 2. These include the wrong date for Chehalis River Chinook salmon opening in September, and chum salmon regs for Stave, Harrison, Nicomen and Chilliwack. I also am trying to find out the reason behind having a non-retention of hatchery coho salmon in place before September 1st for the Chilliwack River. Updates to come.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: cammer on June 29, 2020, 01:06:08 PM
Hammer what I’m saying is didn’t see a smolt ,  resident trout, Cuttie, char nothing ..... yes June was fantastic when hatchery still had a river by it and a few years after but I’m believing that smolt predators like seals mergansers etc are also doing a number on resident fish    My two cents
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 29, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
No fishing for salmon has been put in place for downstream from the Hwy 7 Bridge on the Harrison River.

Nicomen Slough has openings for coho and chum salmon downstream from Hwy 7 Bridge.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

There are some mistakes in the updated freshwater salmon regulations for region 2. These include the wrong date for Chehalis River Chinook salmon opening in September, and chum salmon regs for Stave, Harrison, Nicomen and Chilliwack. I also am trying to find out the reason behind having a non-retention of hatchery coho salmon in place before September 1st for the Chilliwack River. Updates to come.

The mistakes are now fixed.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 29, 2020, 02:17:24 PM
what is the purpose or reason for the salmon closure downstream of the # 7 bridge? Any ideas?

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on June 29, 2020, 02:18:22 PM
what is the purpose or reason for the salmon closure downstream of the # 7 bridge? Any ideas?

I was just on the phone talking about this a few minutes ago, will get an answer soon.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Roderick on June 29, 2020, 04:09:21 PM
what is the purpose or reason for the salmon closure downstream of the # 7 bridge? Any ideas?


I would imagine that it's because fish migrating to the interior will enter that portion of the river to clean out their gills before heading back to the Fraser. 
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Aki on June 29, 2020, 08:54:08 PM
Rod, thanks for following up on all the corrections and clarifications!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: hammer on June 30, 2020, 12:13:45 AM
Cammer,
Thanks for clarifying...I agree that the amount of fish life in that river has plummeted. There used to way more trout both larger rainbows and cuties, plus a few char.....they are far fewer. Certainly steelhead and salmon numbers are way less too. Certainly the changing of flow away from hatchery years back had a major effect, as does predation, but there are factors that have diminished  river productivity.

Rodney, I am wondering about that no salmon retention|fishing on Harrison below the bridge rationale as well. If it is interior stocks coming into the Harrison mouth...why not make the boundary the train bridge. Some of best spots are below the bridge
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on June 30, 2020, 07:08:59 AM
Cammer,
Thanks for clarifying...I agree that the amount of fish life in that river has plummeted. There used to way more trout both larger rainbows and cuties, plus a few char.....they are far fewer. Certainly steelhead and salmon numbers are way less too. Certainly the changing of flow away from hatchery years back had a major effect, as does predation, but there are factors that have diminished  river productivity.
I would think the end of hatchery cutthroat releases, and the end of hatchery summer steelhead releases, have quite a bit to do with the lack of trout that you are seeing now.  I vaguely remember there being quite a few hatchery marked trout in that river 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 30, 2020, 07:25:29 AM

I would imagine that it's because fish migrating to the interior will enter that portion of the river to clean out their gills before heading back to the Fraser.

Perhaps. However that's a 2+ mile stretch of river at a minimum. Fish entering clear water to "clean their gills" was always a thing that supposedly occurred during the freshet (late May - June) only and was usually at the immediate  stream junction.

Recreational salmon angling in the river doesn't really get going until September.

DFO has variously set salmon fishing boundaries at the CPR Bridge, the #7 and Cabin Point over the years but usually as "upstream from". FN fisheries in river seem to take place either at the Golf course, in the Chehalis estuary or below Calamity  Point so I don't see this regulation as separating FN and recreational activities either.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on June 30, 2020, 08:09:00 AM
Its going to be a bit of a bummer. Floating jigs at Calamity point has been a favorite for me for a long time. Seems odd to me that I can't catch a fresh Chum at the mouth but I'm allowed to fish for them in their spawning grounds in the Harrison. Kind of backwards. Ive always questioned why boats are allowed to even rio thru there let alone fish for them. Lots of Chim spawn in the mainstem of the Harrison.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on June 30, 2020, 10:29:05 AM
Cammer how was the water level when you were there ? Just curious
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 30, 2020, 10:47:31 AM
There's certainly been proposals to restrict or eliminate operation of power boats on at least parts of the Harrison. Conservation groups interested in preserving bird and wetland habitat have put such proposals forward.  Last one I recall was in the 90s to make it no power above Cabin Point but it went no where. Too much money to made etc. It's too bad since so much of the river is fairly pristine and there is little road access other than around the lower end. I think most of the Fall Chinook run spawns in the main stem, there is a sockeye population, pinks and as I understand some coho all spawn in the main stem.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on June 30, 2020, 01:07:06 PM
I find it ironic that the whole thing that started this review was someone who was involved with the alouette river hatchery wondering why chinook fishing was open when none return and yet it seems DFO still has the alouette open for chinook fishing.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on June 30, 2020, 02:15:37 PM
There's certainly been proposals to restrict or eliminate operation of power boats on at least parts of the Harrison. Conservation groups interested in preserving bird and wetland habitat have put such proposals forward.  Last one I recall was in the 90s to make it no power above Cabin Point but it went no where. Too much money to made etc. It's too bad since so much of the river is fairly pristine and there is little road access other than around the lower end. I think most of the Fall Chinook run spawns in the main stem, there is a sockeye population, pinks and as I understand some coho all spawn in the main stem.

I'm sure some Chinnook do spawn in the mainstem but I have not seen it. There are a few spots ( that I will not name here )  where I jave seen spawning activity and last year there was a LOT more than normal in those locations. Perhaps a regulation as to how fast some should travel in a boat or limiting boat traffic to the deeper water but then again, how will it be enforced. I see mini jets skip gravel bars in the Harrison every fall. More last year too. Even in the area listed as the Harrison sanctuary  some mini jets just rip up spawning habbit.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on June 30, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
I find it ironic that the whole thing that started this review was someone who was involved with the alouette river hatchery wondering why chinook fishing was open when none return and yet it seems DFO still has the alouette open for chinook fishing.

According to the 2017 post season Brood report, 69,000 Chilliwack River Fall chinook smolt were released in the Alouette River that year which should return 2,000 to 3,000 adults?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: jacked55 on June 30, 2020, 10:00:43 PM
Was at the Chehalis today, water was clear but high. No fish to be seen of any kind. Did run into one other person on the trail heading in while we were heading out and we exchanged quick words and were on our way. We did run into a bear on the way in down the trail by the big log jam. So if you’re heading into the area please remember your bear awareness. Stay safe out there.
I did notice there is new day parking spaces outside the campground site now, and the parking lot over the bridge leading into the canyon parking lot is closed with a “No Trespassing” sign? That’s new from last year. I though that lot was part of the provincial site and should be open to the public no? Any info shared on that would be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Shinny on July 02, 2020, 06:43:52 AM
Chehalis river campground is not a provincial campground. Pretty sure it’s ran by the local indigenous band. The parking lot on the other side of the bridge has been closed for a while, I think it was closed all last fall. Walk down far enough and you’ll probably find a net across the narrow part of the river closer to the Harrison confluence. That would explain no one seeing any fish.  >:(
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: iblly on July 02, 2020, 08:23:22 AM
The local band manages the site on behalf of Parks and trails BC. The campsite across the bridge has been blocked off for a couple years at least.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on July 02, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
If the nets go up again, I really do not see a point to this hatchery other than to provide food for the band.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: armytruck on July 02, 2020, 07:48:49 PM
If the nets go up again, I really do not see a point to this hatchery other than to provide food for the band.
Yup , put it up for sale .  ;D Last few years fishing ghost water was just that ,chasing ghost fish . Then you look in the hatchery and see the hundreds of thousands of hatchery fish just vanish  ;D ;) :o without a trace .  ::)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on July 03, 2020, 08:52:27 AM
Yup , put it up for sale .  ;D Last few years fishing ghost water was just that ,chasing ghost fish . Then you look in the hatchery and see the hundreds of thousands of hatchery fish just vanish  ;D ;) :o without a trace .  ::)

Its crazy to see how many Coho return every year to that hatchery. Ive fished the mouth every year for the past 5 years ( during prime time ) with little to no luck. Very slim. But yet the hatchery is full of offspring. Could it be that the Chum return at the same time and push the Coho thru ? It doesn't make any sense. What has been the most annoying thing for me is seeing wall to wall Chum all the way to the Harrison and not being able to keep one.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: hammer on July 03, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
The chum and coho run is a fraction of what it was. There used to so many chum, you couldn’t fish for coho in some spots..you almost had to fish frog water. The chum benefitted everything...cutty fishing was great, large resident rainbows, etc...now not much.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on July 03, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
The chum and coho run is a fraction of what it was. There used to so many chum, you couldn’t fish for coho in some spots..you almost had to fish frog water. The chum benefitted everything...cutty fishing was great, large resident rainbows, etc...now not much.
They were so thick you had to leave if it got too warm - the carcasses would start to be unbearably stinky.  When the river dropped there was thick scum line of chum carcasses along the entire river bank from at least the bottom of the canyon all the way to the mouth. 
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Shinny on July 04, 2020, 09:31:48 AM
A few years back the chehalis was so void of any coho and even chum in the fall. We took a walk all the way down past the hatchery intake channel area where the Chehalis narrows right up. Found a net across the entire river before the hatchery channel. What a piss off this was, here we are wondering why there are no fish and this band feels the need to net the river BELOW THE HATCHERY !! well we were right pissed off. We got a few more people together and went in under darkness and removed the net. What do you know, fish in the canyon days later  >:(

An old timer told me that the local band can just go to the hatchery and take what they want for food and there is no reason to net the lower except to discourage people from fishing Chehalis. Any truth to that statement?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: mikeyman on July 06, 2020, 10:37:00 PM
You are correct. Net strung out across river no fish get thru. Not worth the trip anymore. To bad that used to be a hell of a fun coho fishery. What a waste!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on July 07, 2020, 10:32:31 AM
it is a shame that this river is in poor shape but to simply blame it on a few nets is naive. years of improper land use, over fishing, droughts, river changing its course have all had a massive impact. think how many thousands of years it takes a river to move all that gravel down stream from the mountains just to have it punch through the forest.  all of prime spawning habit in the lower lost and we wonder why chum production is way down.

would love to see some restoration work and off channel habit built here like is being done on the vedder. the problem is when the water gets high with the fall rains, the mature salmon (chum) get pushed into the forest and often become stuck once the water recedes. same with lots of out going fry. all the years of logging have had a toll on this watershed and the river can rise and fall dramatically. 

as many have stated, this river use to have a awesome coho fishery. unfortunately it has really gone down in the last few years. 

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 07, 2020, 11:44:24 AM
I think all the coho and chum are not getting lost in nets in the lower Chehalis because the Harrison has been  pretty empty of both species for the last few seasons as well. For that matter fall chinook numbers have crashed. Loss of spawning & rearing habitat in the Lower Chehalis may be an important factor but hatchery production would not be effected by that.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 07, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
I think all the coho and chum are not getting lost in nets in the lower Chehalis because the Harrison has been  pretty empty of both species for the last few seasons as well. For that matter fall chinook numbers have crashed. Loss of spawning & rearing habitat in the Lower Chehalis may be an important factor but hatchery production would not be effected by that.

wild chinook harrison numbers have crashed but the Chilliwack numbers are great.

There is a big difference in Survival, The chilliwack is very high. DFO can't explain why.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 07, 2020, 12:40:38 PM
Well on thing that is different is the Harrison run has a large wild component. The Chilliwack is mostly a hatchery produced run derived from Harrison stock.

I have certainly read and heard elsewhere that the Harrison and other north side rivers have seen stock declines over the last few years across most species that have not been experienced on the Chilliwack to the same extent.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on July 07, 2020, 01:02:48 PM
i am putting my $ on all of the recent habitat enhancement and hatchery supplement to why the vedder is doing better.

the chehalis is the biggest spawning tribuarty of the harrison and we have seen how bad it has become with a hatchery on it. imagine the actual salmon populations in the rest of the watersheds in the harrison region. weaver creek,cogburn, bigsilver, birkenhead, green river. not catching salmon in the harrison is more of reflection of how well northern tribs are doing which i am guessing is very poor.

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 07, 2020, 01:40:09 PM
Well on thing that is different is the Harrison run has a large wild component. The Chilliwack is mostly a hatchery produced run derived from Harrison stock.

I have certainly read and heard elsewhere that the Harrison and other north side rivers have seen stock declines over the last few years across most species that have not been experienced on the Chilliwack to the same extent.

The prevailing wisdom is that wild smolts have a higher survival then hatchery smolts. This just isn't the case when comparing wild harrison smolts the chilliwack hatchery.  The chilliwack smolts survive at a higher rater.  Maybe capturing and marking the harrison wild smolts is traumatic or maying there out migrating counts of the wild smolts are off. 

I find it interesting considering how closely related they are in DNA.  DFO biologist are clueless as to why.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 07, 2020, 02:49:17 PM
The prevailing wisdom is that wild smolts have a higher survival then hatchery smolts. This just isn't the case when comparing wild harrison smolts the chilliwack hatchery.  The chilliwack smolts survive at a higher rater.  Maybe capturing and marking the harrison wild smolts is traumatic or maying there out migrating counts of the wild smolts are off. 

I find it interesting considering how closely related they are in DNA.  DFO biologist are clueless as to why.

We all know the difference is the fish processing plant that pops up every year in the lower Harrison river. You can not run a processing plant year after year and expect stocks to sustain it self year after year. Did we learn nothing from the early 1900's when fish processing plants where the norm up and down the coast? what happened to them and why?

Yes the hatchery outlet and floods from forestry also play a role, but they should be talked about along with every other issue effecting the chehalis.
It won't be long and we will be saying the same for the chilliwack, only a matter of time these same processing plants will be allowed to carry on in its system. After all it will be the only lower fraser system left with sustainable fish number s for FSC purposes  :(
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 07, 2020, 02:57:41 PM
historically the Harrison Fall Chinook run is cyclical with pronounced peaks and valleys. The Chilliwack hatchery may smooth that out and that river itself may have lower mortality factors for downstream migrants. The Harrison has very large populations of pike minnow for example.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: avid angler on July 07, 2020, 04:15:59 PM
Ralph and wild man... wow. The Harrison has the best spawning and juvenile rearing habitat going. Are we really blaming pike minnow for the decline on harrison whites. The answer couldn’t be more simple. The chilliwack releases the same amount of smolts every year regardless how many adult spawners return. The Wild Harrison whites have to deal with the beach seine genocide every fall. You take out most of the adult spawners out of the harrison and what do you expect to happen?

Wildmanyeah you post on every thread but don’t actually spend any time on any of the tributaries you post about. There’s nothing special about the hatchery harrison white smolts in the chilliwack. There is just the same amount released every year and the returning adults don’t have to deal with the fn atrocities that happen every fall from bowmans all the way to the spawning beds on the harrison itself.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 07, 2020, 04:29:59 PM
Ralph and wild man... wow. The Harrison has the best spawning and juvenile rearing habitat going. Are we really blaming pike minnow for the decline on harrison whites. The answer couldn’t be more simple. The chilliwack releases the same amount of smolts every year regardless how many adult spawners return. The Wild Harrison whites have to deal with the beach seine genocide every fall. You take out most of the adult spawners out of the harrison and what do you expect to happen?

Wildmanyeah you post on every thread but don’t actually spend any time on any of the tributaries you post about. There’s nothing special about the hatchery harrison white smolts in the chilliwack. There is just the same amount released every year and the returning adults don’t have to deal with the fn atrocities that happen every fall from bowmans all the way to the spawning beds on the harrison itself.

I’m talking about survival to age 2, it’s all well documented on the pacific salmon commissions  website. The fall 4-1 are what know as a shelve stock. There marine history is they spend most of their lives on the inside of ECVI as well as a small portion on wcvi on the shelf.
Since they spend most of there marine life in local fisheries there abundance’s can be estimated in marine waters though marine fisher intercepts.

The Chilliwack smolts have higher survivability.

I am not talking about returning salmon numbers and their variability. Nor was I making an assumption to why wild Harrison numbers are crappy.

You seem to have offered up a good reason that the indiscriminate rape and pillage of the stock for their eggs by Fist nations seems to be valid. Perhaps even the main cause that stock can’t handle the pressure from local FNs.

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 07, 2020, 05:54:59 PM
Ralph and wild man... wow. The Harrison has the best spawning and juvenile rearing habitat going. Are we really blaming pike minnow for the decline on harrison whites.

this is putting words in my mouth. I am just offering my actual observations on fishing the Harrison. I'd also note in the spring when  most smolt migration takes place the Chilliwack is high, cold, fast  and turbid, the Harrison less so.

Like it's ok to blame everything on seals, sea lions or FNs - but not on other predators or user groups.

I'd also note that none of these observations that FNs are over exploiting white springs are backed up by any data, not even bad data.

Beyond your usual anti FN fishing rant do you have any other direct observations on the Harrison to offer?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: bigblockfox on July 08, 2020, 10:30:20 AM
https://www.cloverdalereporter.com/news/recreational-chinook-openings-leave-first-nations-frustrated-on-the-lower-fraser/?fbclid=IwAR1JU-4FFgwol-rYiqMZfJEzJu9KbBdxj624nXQ4GWS3dBA0rqusU4_TSvA
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 08, 2020, 10:30:49 AM
as predicted... They want priority of hatchery fisheries....Now you don't have to doubt it its their own words....


https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/recreational-chinook-openings-leave-first-nations-frustrated-on-the-lower-fraser/

Limited recreational openings for chinook on the Chehalis and Chilliwack rivers being questioned

Recreational chinook openings leave First Nations frustrated on the Lower Fraser

"Lack of respect for First Nations fisheries priorities by federal authorities has left members of the Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance frustrated.

That’s how recreational openings for chinook salmon on the Chehalis and Chilliwack rivers are being characterized by the LFFA, which serves 23 First Nations on the lower Fraser River."

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: essyoo on July 08, 2020, 12:10:13 PM
Asking out of complete ignorance and trying to understand these claims. How does FN contribute to the hatcheries, watersheds, or future wellbeing of the stocks? Does the hatchery program's funding come purely from license sales or is the bulk of the money from government subsidies?

I can understand a claim to wild stocks for subsistence needs, but claiming hatchery without any apparent contribution seems...bad? Again, I am asking from a place of ignorance and seeking to get more facts. Happy to be informed on this.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 08, 2020, 12:51:20 PM
Pacific Salmon hatchery production is paid for out of the Federal budget "General Revenue" account. No license or other fees are tied to it (unlike the Provincial License). Hatchery production is for the benefit of all users including FNs. All SCOC and other court rulings apply so technically they get priority access.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 01:02:12 PM
I am not sure Mr. McNeil and Mr. Malloway are shocked and frustrated? They are more than welcome to fish for Chinook just like every other person that resides in Canada with a rod and reel on these 2 systems.

“We do this every year,” said LFFA chair Ken Malloway. “After much consultation, we wait to hear about when we’ll be able to go and get our fish for ceremonies but all of a sudden we see sport fishers going out first instead.”

Please join us Mr. Malloway, stand with us shoulder to shoulder with a rod and reel on these 2 systems and see how sports anglers fare during the summer Chinook season. 
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 01:11:10 PM
Tensions are rising,” Malloway added. “If we don’t find a way to work better together, some nations may begin to authorize their own fisheries.”

 Another bully, using the right words for media. Media eats this up because it is main stream right now, no need to follow up or look into how people have been trying very hard the last 10+ years to work together. Comments like this tear that work apart, and do no good for the fish.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 08, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
Actually I don't believe FNs are even required to obtain a license to angle for pacific salmon. This is something that changed within the last couple of years though any previous requirement for them to have a license may have not been enforced for some years before.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: poper on July 08, 2020, 01:18:17 PM
Hey Ralph, do you support FN using nets on these 2 systems we are talking about.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 08, 2020, 01:33:08 PM
Hey Ralph, do you support FN using nets on these 2 systems we are talking about.

You know I was an accountant for over 30 years and this question reminds me of the old joke:

A mathematician has coffee with an accountant and asks:

"What's 2 plus 2?"

The accountant thinks a minute and says:

"What kind of number did you have in mind?"
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 01:43:09 PM
Actually I don't believe FNs are even required to obtain a license to angle for pacific salmon. This is something that changed within the last couple of years though any previous requirement for them to have a license may have not been enforced for some years before.

Like I said nothing stopping them from joining us!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: poper on July 08, 2020, 01:56:42 PM
You know I was an accountant for over 30 years and this question reminds me of the old joke:

A mathematician has coffee with an accountant and asks:

"What's 2 plus 2?"

The accountant thinks a minute and says:

"What kind of number did you have in mind?"

I knew you would have a response like that, good one.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 08, 2020, 02:00:00 PM
Tensions are rising,” Malloway added. “If we don’t find a way to work better together, some nations may begin to authorize their own fisheries.”

 Another bully, using the right words for media. Media eats this up because it is main stream right now, no need to follow up or look into how people have been trying very hard the last 10+ years to work together. Comments like this tear that work apart, and do no good for the fish.

No matter how much you work together at the end of the day the pie still needs to get divided up. That’s where things tend to blow up.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 08, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Tensions are rising,” Malloway added. “If we don’t find a way to work better together, some nations may begin to authorize their own fisheries.”

 Another bully, using the right words for media. Media eats this up because it is main stream right now, no need to follow up or look into how people have been trying very hard the last 10+ years to work together. Comments like this tear that work apart, and do no good for the fish.

Reminds me of the demonstration fisheries put on in previous years by rec fisher advocacy groups:

2017: https://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/2017-08-31-fraser-river-demonstration-fishery.html
2019: https://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-puts-lack-of-fishing-opportunities-on-the-fraser-in-focus/

Slightly different wording on the rec side but the words are still chosen to catch peoples' attention and ensure media coverage. I'm sure we'll see more of the same from all user groups in future as everyone's slice of the pie dwindles. It's depressing :/
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 02:28:53 PM
No matter how much you work together at the end of the day the pie still needs to get divided up. That’s where things tend to blow up.

2 different pies being discussed here.
Pie#1 = Fraser River stocks of concern. This pie has been sliced to allow FN harvesting on on a diet, no large slices, but many small ones.
Pie#2 = Tributary Hatchery stocks that has been sliced up even small to allow all Canadians on a diet a slice if they so please and are lucky enough find one under a rock.

I'm willing to share my potential slice of pie #2 without blowing anything up :)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 02:34:04 PM
Reminds me of the demonstration fisheries put on in previous years by rec fisher advocacy groups:

2017: https://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/2017-08-31-fraser-river-demonstration-fishery.html
2019: https://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-puts-lack-of-fishing-opportunities-on-the-fraser-in-focus/

Slightly different wording on the rec side but the words are still chosen to catch peoples' attention and ensure media coverage. I'm sure we'll see more of the same from all user groups in future as everyone's slice of the pie dwindles. It's depressing :/

 Yes similier
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 08, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
2 different pies being discussed here.
Pie#1 = Fraser River stocks of concern. This pie has been sliced to allow FN harvesting on on a diet, no large slices, but many small ones.
Pie#2 = Tributary Hatchery stocks that has been sliced up even small to allow all Canadians on a diet a slice if they so please and are lucky enough find one under a rock.

I'm willing to share my potential slice of pie #2 without blowing anything up :)

Its all one pie for FSC, When you don't get enough #1 pie you go after #2 pie. Canadians only get pie after FN's have ate enough pie for FSC.

Now it seems they do have Pie that's been reserved they call this pie summer 4-1 chinook pie.  It seems that reserved pie is not the same as now pie and its allways hard to watch others eat pie even if you know you are going to get to eat more pie later.

Also where is my sockeye pie that's the best pie of all.  If I don't get sockeye pie no one gets pie no one damnit!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 02:47:03 PM
I'm sure glad my wife was taught by her mom who was taught by her mom and so on how to make pie. Sure saves a lot of time and effort in trying to divide one up to the many greedy bastards looking for the last slice.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Spoonman on July 08, 2020, 04:45:35 PM
......yep they aren't  shut out......grab a rod and reel and start hiking.....hunt down the meager #s of reds that return to either river....hatchery tribs should be rec fishing only.....time to talk extinguishing rights and make all canadians equal....

Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 08, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
all Canadians are already equal in terms as defined in the BNA and the Constitution Act. FN fishing & hunting rights were recognized by the British Crown before most of the country was settled by non FNs and never passed to subsequent people who settle here. It's the same in the US.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 08, 2020, 06:17:57 PM
all Canadians are already equal in terms as defined in the BNA and the Constitution Act. FN fishing & hunting rights were recognized by the British Crown before most of the country was settled by non FNs and never passed to subsequent people who settle here. It's the same in the US.

And their rights are being granted...... they do not like the allocation numbers but they are still able to gather their ceremonial fish.
They are frustrated because they have become accustomed to far more than the 3 ceremonial fish allowed now for a death. Well there simply are not that many fish anymore, even the accountant can figure that math out. :)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: avid angler on July 08, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
I am not sure Mr. McNeil and Mr. Malloway are shocked and frustrated? They are more than welcome to fish for Chinook just like every other person that resides in Canada with a rod and reel on these 2 systems.

“We do this every year,” said LFFA chair Ken Malloway. “After much consultation, we wait to hear about when we’ll be able to go and get our fish for ceremonies but all of a sudden we see sport fishers going out first instead.”

Please join us Mr. Malloway, stand with us shoulder to shoulder with a rod and reel on these 2 systems and see how sports anglers fare during the summer Chinook season.

Malloway is clearly starving. Haven’t you seen him?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 08, 2020, 11:47:51 PM
Malloway is clearly starving. Haven’t you seen him?

Surely we can talk about this without resorting to mocking others for their weight ???
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: big_fish on July 09, 2020, 12:03:45 AM
Not when you're going to the media and crying about not getting enough food.

(https://www.fnfisheriescouncil.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ken-malloway-229x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 09, 2020, 08:04:10 AM
Not when you're going to the media and crying about not getting enough food.

Yes I know what he looks like and it's irrelevant to the conversation. You're fat-shaming a person because you disagree with him about fishing rights... there's a logical disconnect there that can only be explained by nastiness or worse.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: buck on July 09, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
Soowahlie First Nations take all excess salmon not required for brood stock from the Chilliwack hatchery. This amounts to thousands of coho, chum and spring. Why are these fish not being divided up amongst other First Nation groups?  Soowahlie sends all the fish to the processing plant for $$$.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on July 09, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Soowahlie First Nations take all excess salmon not required for brood stock from the Chilliwack hatchery. This amounts to thousands of coho, chum and spring. Why are these fish not being divided up amongst other First Nation groups?  Soowahlie sends all the fish to the processing plant for $$$.

Thanks Buck, I was actually just gonna point that out and ask if the ESSR fishery also applies to the summer chinook salmon at the Chilliwack Hatchery?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: wildmanyeah on July 09, 2020, 10:54:01 AM
Soowahlie First Nations take all excess salmon not required for brood stock from the Chilliwack hatchery. This amounts to thousands of coho, chum and spring. Why are these fish not being divided up amongst other First Nation groups?  Soowahlie sends all the fish to the processing plant for $$$.

There is probably some FN politics in the back ground that we are not aware of and are purposely kept behind closed doors..  Does the Soowahlie get as many openings on the fraser as the rest of Lower First Nations do?

I know Sumas First Nations recently threatened to set up a weir on the C/V.  The Tzeachten also apparently have the historical context for setting a weir up in the area.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: redside1 on July 09, 2020, 11:48:38 AM
the part I am having a challenge with is there never was a early summer run chinook in the chehalis or the chilliwack.
So Canada creates a fishery for all and now FN's should get first crack at something that did not exist until colonialism came along?
I don't have a problem if it was there before but it wasn't so why should FN's get a special right to it?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Dave on July 09, 2020, 11:58:25 AM
Actually there was a summer Chinook run in the Chilliwack. It is considered genetically extinct now.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 09, 2020, 01:00:24 PM
Thanks Buck, I was actually just gonna point that out and ask if the ESSR fishery also applies to the summer chinook salmon at the Chilliwack Hatchery?

yes good question and part of the issue raised in the article was they did not have access to a sufficient ceremonial quantity of fish right now. Not a lot brood surplus fish in the hatchery at the moment I'd guess.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Spoonman on July 09, 2020, 06:05:59 PM
all Canadians are already equal in terms as defined in the BNA and the Constitution Act. FN fishing & hunting rights were recognized by the British Crown before most of the country was settled by non FNs and never passed to subsequent people who settle here. It's the same in the US.
........equal is a stand alone term....any qualifier added turns it into unequal.....one country,one law...I know we don't  have that and that is going to cause problems till we do.....
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 09, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
........equal is a stand alone term....any qualifier added turns it into unequal.....one country,one law...I know we don't  have that and that is going to cause problems till we do.....

No. Original equality was only political equality in the absolute sense. Literally one man one vote prior to women's suffrage. There was no equality on almost any other factor. Since then our society has been dealing with inequality on a variety of other factors. For example access to justice is not equal by wealth, by class and a whole truck load of other  factors. As some factors move towards equality (and absolute equality can likely never been achieved  on those factors) relative equality declines on other factors.

Even at that the 'deal' made around FN rights was necessary to nation building, same as the deal for francophone rights was necessary to nation building and the extension of rights to women.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: yoda on July 09, 2020, 07:00:56 PM
So back to the point, is anyone having any success on either river system?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 10, 2020, 07:52:58 AM
I'm heading out to Chilliwack this AM and will report back. Water's at 2.250m on the graph.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: spoiler on July 10, 2020, 11:58:21 AM
yeah Dave,
I remember those fish. I was lucky enough to catch a few in the early to mid 1970's. They were chrome bright and super hard fighting! Just a shame that they couldn't have been brought back before their numbers were depleted.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Dave on July 10, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
yeah Dave,
I remember those fish. I was lucky enough to catch a few in the early to mid 1970's. They were chrome bright and super hard fighting! Just a shame that they couldn't have been brought back before their numbers were depleted.

I wonder if you, buck and I are the only ones on this forum that remember those fish? My god they were strong!!!
Largest I saw hooked was about 35 lbs, in the Boulder Hole.  You know how that ended, lol!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: spoiler on July 10, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
Yup! anything over 20 was going to be a problem!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on July 10, 2020, 02:53:03 PM
yeah Dave,
I remember those fish. I was lucky enough to catch a few in the early to mid 1970's. They were chrome bright and super hard fighting! Just a shame that they couldn't have been brought back before their numbers were depleted.
I would think based on geographic proximity that the chinook in the North Fork Nooksack would be closest genetically speaking.  This year was the first time in memory that we had a fishery on spring/summer chinook on the North Fork.  I wonder if some brood stock could be provided to the Chilliwack hatchery instead.  Of course, these fish don't have the bright red meat of the current Chilliwack hatchery stock, but they may be able to reproduce naturally in the system.

I wonder if those now extirpated summer chinook on the Chilliwack spawned above the lake?  Or maybe in the upper reaches of Slesse creek? Spring and summer chinook in Washington seem to have adapted their run timing so they could reach the uppermost reaches of spawning water, that was the best place to hatch their eggs.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Dave on July 10, 2020, 03:33:47 PM
I don't know if there are any DNA samples of these fish collecting dust some where in a DFO desk or storage area ... it would be interesting to compare it to Nooksack fish.  As to where they spawned there are records of fish being seen in the 4 mile jam area (main river) fairly recently, app 15 years ago.
A long deceased Soowahlie elder, Francis Kelly, told me they were quite common in the early 1900's, but I suppose all salmon stocks were back then.

These fish entered the Chilliwack River in June and spawned late September .. how does that compare to Nooksack chinook?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: CohoJake on July 10, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
I don't know if there are any DNA samples of these fish collecting dust some where in a DFO desk or storage area ... it would be interesting to compare it to Nooksack fish.  As to where they spawned there are records of fish being seen in the 4 mile jam area (main river) fairly recently, app 15 years ago.
A long deceased Soowahlie elder, Francis Kelly, told me they were quite common in the early 1900's, but I suppose all salmon stocks were back then.

These fish entered the Chilliwack River in June and spawned late September .. how does that compare to Nooksack chinook?
Very similar timing - although they seem to enter the river into July - at least that's how long it takes them to show up at the hatchery.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 10, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
Fished from 11 - 2 today. Started at the crossing, then Peach, then Hooge Rd, then the run above the train bridge. Short-floating roe. Couple bites in the fast water around Peach but no hookups. Not sure if it was an exciting fish or not ;) Water visibility around 18" depending on location. Water height was 2.25m and dropping. Here are some photos so that people who aren't familiar with the graph can see what 2.25m looks like.

Vedder Crossing
(https://i.ibb.co/zV2xVjp/20200710-104430.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CK98KNg)

Peach Rd side channel... forgot to take photo of the actual river ::)
(https://i.ibb.co/VBxjZzt/20200710-105303-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C061ZYz)

Hooge Rd/Bergman
(https://i.ibb.co/MMtxBkd/20200710-135732-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tm7xWMy)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: yoda on July 10, 2020, 05:33:38 PM
Thank's for the update on the river. Will be out there in the near future. Looks pretty green even though it is up.
My usual rule of thumb was as soon as cultas lake sockeye were noticable flipping around, then the reds were somewhat more there at deep heads of pools.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 10, 2020, 07:16:00 PM
Thank's for the update on the river. Will be out there in the near future. Looks pretty green even though it is up.
My usual rule of thumb was as soon as cultas lake sockeye were noticable flipping around, then the reds were somewhat more there at deep heads of pools.

The colour was a gorgeous blue-green today but the vis wasn't great. Didn't see any fish jumping, other than one random pikeminnow who decided to put on a show...
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: avid angler on July 10, 2020, 07:18:43 PM
Thank's for the update on the river. Will be out there in the near future. Looks pretty green even though it is up.
My usual rule of thumb was as soon as cultas lake sockeye were noticable flipping around, then the reds were somewhat more there at deep heads of pools.
Just an FYI the July summer sockeye are chilliwack lake sockeye, not cultus sockeye which return later in summer/early fall.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 11, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
Was there today ( Chehalis)and what’s abundantly clear is The river is dying a slow death to sports fishing! Traditionally a slow period late June but to not see smolt schools or resident trout or any fish tells me predation amongst these classes is rampant and probably a good source of the recent declines in adult stocks! At least mosquitoes are still thriving


I know some comments followed these observations. I just wished to note that yesterday I spent a few hours on the Alouette above 216th. I had barely a bite nor did I even see a small trout, a whitefish or even a sucker or other coarse fish. I seldom fish that river this time of year but when I did there were at least some little cutties about. The chum run has declined considerably and last I heard the ARMS hatchery had difficulty collecting it's broad target. No FN nets or fishery on this little river best I known.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 11, 2020, 07:37:34 PM

I know some comments followed these observations. I just wished to note that yesterday I spent a few hours on the Alouette above 216th. I had barely a bite nor did I even see a small trout, a whitefish or even a sucker or other coarse fish. I seldom fish that river this time of year but when I did there were at least some little cutties about. The chum run has declined considerably and last I heard the ARMS hatchery had difficulty collecting it's broad target. No FN nets or fishery on this little river best I known.

Ya the Aloette has been in rough shape for a few years now. Guys that used to fish it for cutties religiously have been shaking their heads in disbelief.

As a side note, lots of whitefish today on the chilliwack nymphing.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: yoda on July 11, 2020, 09:00:37 PM
Just an FYI the July summer sockeye are chilliwack lake sockeye, not cultus sockeye which return later in summer/early fall.

That is too funny. When i typed chilliwack sockeye, i thought it wasn't right so i changed it. Thank you for clarifying that for my tired brain :)
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Blood_Orange on July 12, 2020, 09:02:57 AM
On a side note, why are jet boats allowed on the Chilliwack river? Seems both stupid and dangerous, especially once the weather warms up and more people are in the water. Saw some yahoos when I went fishing the other day, going full speed up one of the runs then doing a sloppy doughnut that scraped up and over the edge of one of the gravel bars. It's so disruptive, rude, and dangerous >:(
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: RalphH on July 12, 2020, 09:30:51 AM
Ya the Aloette has been in rough shape for a few years now. Guys that used to fish it for cutties religiously have been shaking their heads in disbelief.

As a side note, lots of whitefish today on the chilliwack nymphing.

The ARMS hatchery used to collect cutthroat brood stock then raise and release them directly into the river. That stopped quite a number of years ago. Now the entire program for the Province has been cancelled. Major housing developments throughout the upper watershed can't be helping the situation either. Likewise there is a lot more angling pressure as the populations of Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge increase.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: cammer on July 12, 2020, 11:10:53 AM
Fished Chehalis on Friday morn.  I have a picture of a log jam that I believe is a barrier to fish passage especially as it drops and it is dropping fast !  This log jam is big and the river goes right through it.  See google earth or I could post a pic.??? This may prevent fish from getting past this now and into fall and winter
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: hammer on July 12, 2020, 01:17:23 PM
Is that on the lower river? In my experience...a log jam does not impede migration, on the contrary it acts like break in the current and major resting cover. You would be amazed what fish will get through. That said, I haven’t seen it
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Spoonman on July 12, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
.....two log jams in the bottom from what I've encountered  last couple of years....
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Every Day on July 16, 2020, 11:17:55 PM
Fished Chehalis on Friday morn.  I have a picture of a log jam that I believe is a barrier to fish passage especially as it drops and it is dropping fast !  This log jam is big and the river goes right through it.  See google earth or I could post a pic.??? This may prevent fish from getting past this now and into fall and winter

I'm assuming the jam would have established this past winter (early January) in that major flood. Steelhead didn't seem to be having any issues getting through it this winter and spring in high, nor low water. We haven't had any significant water events since then. It's possible a few more logs piled up on the front end of it during freshet, but I doubt it would have changed the migratory dynamics of it. Obviously I could be wrong, but I would say the lack of fish has much more to do with poor survival/returns (or possible a lower river net?) rather than the log jam.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 22, 2020, 12:07:17 PM
where did all the great links go that where once on this topic? seems to be a lot of stuff deleted? was there an issue with the links being posted?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 23, 2020, 08:01:56 AM
Went for a boat ride last night in the Vedder canal.
DFO was on the water.
No fish to report. Not a single roll scene in 3 hours.
Large presence of patrolling seals.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Hike_and_fish on July 23, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
Sounds like DFO is more concerned about protecting a FN fishery than enforcing the regulations over at the Cap.
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: MetalAndFeathers on July 23, 2020, 09:24:57 PM
Sounds like DFO is more concerned about protecting a FN fishery than enforcing the regulations over at the Cap.
Most of the fishery on the Cap is FN aswell. Go down to the cable pool at anytime this week and I guarantee you will see multiple FN snaggers. Up to 7 of em pushing guys out of the spots and killing 50+ fish a day
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Every Day on July 23, 2020, 09:36:28 PM
Went for a boat ride last night in the Vedder canal.
DFO was on the water.
No fish to report. Not a single roll scene in 3 hours.
Large presence of patrolling seals.

I've been out three times now, and still haven't seen a single chinook roll, yet we've caught them on 2/3 trips out. Lots of sockeye flipping around, maybe more than I've ever seen on the Vedder. It does seem to depend on the day/location though, as tonight I only saw 1 roll.

Nets were out again today in the canal. I had heard they were done after the first 3 days out, but I guess that wasn't the case? Unfortunate to hear about the large presence of seals though - they are probably doing a lot more damage than the nets are!
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: stsfisher on July 23, 2020, 09:38:57 PM
Another canal evening.
No fish seen
2 FN gill nets set just above the confluence of the sumas
Many patrolling seals
No sign of DFO
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: dennisK on July 28, 2021, 10:56:10 AM
sorry for rewaking an old thread but i used the search and did not find anything more recent...

I was wondering about access to Bergman road south side - where do folks park to access that area? side of road ok or?  anything close...thx
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: Rodney on July 28, 2021, 01:27:03 PM
sorry for rewaking an old thread but i used the search and did not find anything more recent...

I was wondering about access to Bergman road south side - where do folks park to access that area? side of road ok or?  anything close...thx

The parking lot at the end of Bergman Road?
Title: Re: Chilliwack and Chehalis River summer chinook salmon fisheries
Post by: dennisK on July 29, 2021, 06:22:43 AM
Thanks. I looked at google maps and couldnt see anything. I've never been there. Cheers