Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: IronNoggin on April 19, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
-
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2473
Petition to the House of Commons
Whereas:
The United Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP), a supranational agreement created and developed by the UN, has the real potential to seriously compromise our national sovereignty, supersede Canadian law, and give rights to a recognized group in Canada outside of federal legislation, rendering the vast majority of Canadians without rights to large swaths of land;
UNDRIP would effectively be interpreted to supersede the current language of Canadian law from "meaningful consultation" to "prior and informed consent", in relation to any development on any hereditary land, disputed or otherwise, essentially giving veto power to hereditary chiefs using traditional law that in fact does not have legal standing within the laws of Canada;
Canada has already an effective system of consulting with our First Nations under section 35 of the Constitution Act;
The Canadian people, through representation, do not require supranational agreements, treaties, or compacts to effectively ensure the rights of any peoples are protected;
Canada is a world leader on human rights and will continue to lead the world in that area; and
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has vowed to re-introduce Bill C-262 on UNDRIP, which was debated during the 42nd Parliament, in the upcoming weeks and months.
We, the undersigned, citizens of Canada, call upon the House of Commons to:
1) Vote to fully reject any bill similar to C-262 that would accept a supranational agreement that can and will be interpreted as superseding Canadian law;
and
2) Fully reject any bill similar to C-262 and denounce any and all supranational agreements that negatively affect our Canadian sovereignty.
-
No thanks 8)
I do enjoy that the Conservative MP from Saskatchewan forgot to capitalize Saskatoon, FWIW.
-
No thanks...
I knew there would be a few on this site who would actually support UN directives over Canadian Law.
Thanks for the verification.
Nog
-
I knew there would be a few on this site who would actually support UN directives over Canadian Law.
Thanks for the verification.
Nog
This is a fallacy and misinformation. The UNDRIP declaration is a framework and non binding. Each country or jurisdiction that endorses it can invoke it in it's own way.
UNDRIP:
..."emphasizes the rights of Indigenous peoples to maintain and strengthen their own institutions, cultures and traditions, and to pursue their development in keeping with their own needs and aspirations" It "prohibits discrimination against indigenous peoples", and it "promotes their full and effective participation in all matters that concern them and their right to remain distinct and to pursue their own visions of economic and social development"
UNDRIP provides a framework to allow indigenous people to maintain their own culture. language and traditions as opposed to being forced to assimilate into a majority culture.
-
This is a fallacy and misinformation. The UNDRIP declaration is a framework ans non binding. Each country or jurisdiction that endorses it can invoke it in it's own way.
NOT the way it is being imposed in your own Province Ralphie Ol' Chap.
Nor the way your inglorious leader wishes to see it unfold on a national basis either.
But... Nice Try anyway... ::)
Regards,
Nog
-
NOT the way it is being imposed in your own Province Ralphie Ol' Chap.
Nor the way your inglorious leader wishes to see it unfold on a national basis either.
But... Nice Try anyway... ::)
Regards,
Nog
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Unfortunately the problem for the originators of this petition is that UNDRIP doesn't conform to their uninformed opinions.
UNDRIP is consistent with close to 300 years of Canadian law and most of what is outlined in the material I quoted above is already in place in Canada thanks to the BNA ACt, the Constitution Act and a large body of Court rulings. This is not something new in Canada though it is a work in progress since various bodies of the Crown have historically ignored the law as it stands in this country.
-
The world according to Ralph... (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
-
The world according to Ralph... (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
He's right. You need to wake up and smell the roses nog, the world you took for granted is gone.
-
NOT the way it is being imposed in your own Province Ralphie Ol' Chap.
Nor the way your inglorious leader wishes to see it unfold on a national basis either.
But... Nice Try anyway... ::)
Regards,
Nog
Angry white much?
-
Poor little misguided sheeple. ::)
I strongly suggest that some here best be putting their rose colored glasses away, and start paying attention to what they are being SUBJECTED to in Canada (pun definitely intended).
Cheers,
Npg
-
False news has never prevented Nog from posting.
-
False news has never prevented Nog from posting.
And ostriches will always like to hide their head in the sand, thereby releasing them from any potential of actually determining what is real in this world... ;D
Nog
-
And ostriches will always like to hide their head in the sand, thereby releasing them from any potential of actually determining what is real in this world... ;D
Nog
Ostriches don't actually bury their heads in the sand. See below for a link to a National Geographic Kids article debunking some popular animal myths:
https://kids.nationalgeographic.com/explore/nature/animal-myths-busted/
-
Ostriches don't actually bury their heads in the sand.
(https://wonderopolis.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1425_f.jpg)
Perhaps not.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/scaled/2013/12/18/article-0-1A2B262D00000578-818_636x382.jpg)
But some sheeple certainly do (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Heheh.gif)
Cheers,
Nog
-
Thanks Matt. I always enjoy our friendly little chit chats. 8)
-
this is your way to convince people to follow your cause? lol... good luck.
i guess id have that much hate on people if i lose my way of life too. now u know how the FNs have felt.
-
this is your way to convince people to follow your cause? lol... good luck.
(https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
Get over yourself Pocahontas...
Nog
-
(https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
Get over yourself Pocahontas...
Nog
Pocahontas? I'm white actually, but thanks for reaffirming my point. The more juvenile u act, the less support ur racist movement would get so that's good.
-
The funny thing here is tiny fish, the vast majority of Forums this has been circulated to are largely offering support. I am completely unsurprised that a largely lefty audience who caters to LIEberal antics can't see the forest through the trees.
As for your support? Phsst! I could not care less.
I do however take offense to your use of the words "racist" towards me.
If you actually knew who I am, you would discover I am anything but.
However, continue in your delusions as you wish...
Nog OUT
-
The funny thing here is tiny fish, the vast majority of Forums this has been circulated to are largely offering support.
Perhaps that has more to say about the audience of those Forums. I'm on two others that you frequent and I don't see a lot of support for this initiative.
Most people will see this as it really is, a group of human dinosaurs who are having difficulty adapting to changing attitudes.
-
The funny thing here is tiny fish, the vast majority of Forums this has been circulated to are largely offering support. I am completely unsurprised that a largely lefty audience who caters to LIEberal antics can't see the forest through the trees.
As for your support? Phsst! I could not care less.
I do however take offense to your use of the words "racist" towards me.
If you actually knew who I am, you would discover I am anything but.
However, continue in your delusions as you wish...
Nog OUT
deny all u want but what you've been posting in the past year show what u really are
"I'm not a racist, but id just like to say..." lol :-*
Time's up, stop being a cry baby
-
Perhaps that has more to say about the audience of those Forums.
Actually it rather well reflects the mindset of folks who engage in certain activities.
As expected, hunters and firearm enthusiasts are more prone to open eyes and an even closer eye on government activities. Seems many recognize that "government" but rarely looks after their interests.
Conversely, many of fishing forums members have not been so abused by the gov that they will buy into the kool-aid of the day. Even going so far as to re-elect complete incompetents.
Many folks are awake to Trudeau's stance on this matter, and just what it will mean to the entire country when / if he rams this through.
Of course one can always remain a sheep and continue to bleat that it is for the common good.
Always best to label those you don't find favor with while you're at it.
Seems to help the moral among the balance of the flock... ;)
While I was typing this, I see another of the bleaters responded in kind.
No surprise, and no response towards yet another sheeple.
Cheers,
Nog
-
Always best to label those you don't find favor with while you're at it.
Seems to help the moral among the balance of the flock... ;)
You don't see the irony of these two sentences that you just posted?
-
You don't see the irony of these two sentences that you just posted?
I did when I wrote it Rod, but when the fleece fits... (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Maybe.jpg)
Cheers...
-
(https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/94017401_10213372367424215_6720651343154905088_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=DuSRZlSSkXUAX_mvyot&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=6e93e6154936b1d8e03d95868cb57087&oe=5EC29DB2)
-
Pocohontas ? Name calling. Childish
-
'Nog, you do not understand the concept of an argument.
-
I'd have a lot more compassion for Nog's position if he said, "I'm a commercial fisherman and I'm worried about my economic future. I'm concerned that UNDRIP will lead to an increase in FN's allocation of our salmon resources and that could spell financial disaster for me and my family."
Instead he's going with the "supranational agreements will erode Canadian sovereignty by effectively transferring Canadian lawmaking powers to the United Nations" argument (which is obviously nonsense).
I feel for Nog, I really do, and I don't know what the correct move is for an individual in his position. Going after UNDRIP is certainly just a distraction, as it's not the cause of his problems.
I guess we all need a distraction these days :'(
-
Nicely stated Blood Orange.
However we have gotten where we are with our salmon crisis without UNDRIP. I'd say this petition is a harmful distraction from the real problems salmon face. The crisis people in the commercial salmon fishery and the commercialized portions of the sport fishery stems from a decline in salmon numbers not from UNDRIP.
The petition which was drafted and submitted by Mark Friesen, a member of the Peoples Party of Canada which was founded by Maxime Bernier.
The petition makes the false point that Bill C-262 would surrender Canada's sovereignty to a supra-national agreement. If this were true than any international agreement Canada has entered into would in effect be such a surrender including all trade agreements, security alliances, tax treaties and so forth. There are hundreds of these. The ability of a Nation State to enter into such agreements is in fact one of the most important aspects of sovereignty.
More importantly Bill c-262 does not in any way make UNDRIP part of Canadian law but merely that Canadian law be consistent with UNDRIP. This is already the case and for years the courts have examined question of Canadian Law as they relate to international laws, agreements and standards be it from the United Nations, the World Court and a variety of international boards and tribunals that Canada is a member of.
Here is an interesting article on Bill C-262 from BC Business which is hardly a liberal-lefty publication.
https://www.bcbusiness.ca/Setting-a-Higher-Standard-for-Industry-and-Indigenous-Interest
-
Formal adoption of UNDRIP into canadian law is far more reaching then just salmon.
We have adopted UNDRIP but only as per the UN. Writing into actually canadian law is a totally different thing and one that is very far reaching.
I think the fact that Bill 262 was delayed 100 times and then left to die in the senate speaks for itself. Our PM also recently threatened FNs when they were doing roadblocks that he would not reintroduce the bill if they kept at it.
What the adoption of the bill 262 will likely do is cause a bunch of new supreme court cases.
-
Formal adoption of UNDRIP into canadian law is far more reaching then just salmon.
We have adopted UNDRIP but only as per the UN. Writing into actually canadian law is a totally different thing and one that is very far reaching.
I think the fact that Bill 262 was delayed 100 times and then left to die in the senate speaks for itself.
Finally. Someone who actually grasps the reality of the situation. (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif)
Thanks. Well said.
Nog
-
The Bill was still in reading 2nd reading when the Senate rose for the Summer and then never reconvened prior to the October Election.Total readings of the Bill in the Senate was 12. The Conservatives controlled the Senate while in the House they were the only Party that voted against C-262 where is passed 206 to 79. The Harper Conservatives had set out to abolish the Senate but is more willing to use it when it suits their purpose.
-
The Bill was still in reading 2nd reading when the Senate rose for the Summer and then never reconvened prior to the October Election.Total readings of the Bill in the Senate was 12. The Conservatives controlled the Senate while in the House they were the only Party that voted against C-262 where is passed 206 to 79. The Harper Conservatives had set out to abolish the Senate but is more willing to use it when it suits their purpose.
It took the liberals 2 years to finally give it to the Senate https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/BillDetails.aspx?billId=8160636&Language=E
They passed a covid bill in like a week.
-
What the adoption of the bill 262 will likely do is cause a bunch of new supreme court cases.
There will be as many Supreme court cases if UNDRIP is not adopted. But it will, we all know that.
-
There will be as many Supreme court cases if UNDRIP is not adopted. But it will, we all know that.
We have adopted UNDRIP Dave
"In May 2016, the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs announced Canada is now a full supporter, without qualification, of the declaration."
https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1309374407406/1309374458958
-
Got me! Watched "Up in Smoke" last night ... lingering effects ;D
-
It took the liberals 2 years to finally give it to the Senate https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/BillDetails.aspx?billId=8160636&Language=E
They passed a covid bill in like a week.
::)...it was a private members bill WMY, most of which do not get beyond a first reading let alone get passed in the House and to the Senate.
We have adopted UNDRIP Dave
"In May 2016, the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs announced Canada is now a full supporter, without qualification, of the declaration."
https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1309374407406/1309374458958
yeah and note the 1st endorsement was in November 2010 right after Harper won his majority government. The petition like pretty all such that IN passes along is just smoke.
-
::)...it was a private members bill WMY, most of which do not get beyond a first reading let alone get passed in the House and to the Senate.
bill 262 was unworkable according to Jody Wilson Raybould, who basically got brow beaten into supporting it.
it's a shitty bill and vague attempt at putting UNDRIP it into canadian law.
-
The 2010 Declaration of support by the Harper government is here:
https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1309374239861/1309374546142
The petition put together by Mark Friesen makes the same points that Chick Strahl as the Minister responsible made to justify Canada choice to be 1 of 4 countries that voted against UNDRIP in 2007.
Since the Harper Conservatives reveres ed their position in 2010 the issue of opposition to UNDRIP is a dead issue in Canada.
-
... The petition like pretty all such that IN passes along is just smoke.
Get over yourself Ralphie Lad. You simply ain't all you pretend to be boy.
It's a shitty bill and vague attempt at putting UNDRIP into canadian law.
While it is a shitty bill, it was (and will be) an overt attempt from Blunder Boy to impose UNDRIP into Canadian Law. Only those wearing LIEberal blinders can't recognize that for the steaming pile that it is.
In many ways I feel sorry for them.
Nog
-
I dont think we will see bill 262 again it will be a liberal plan and will be stuck with it.
I am often reminded of an interview i seen with one of the big FN chiefs. How do you see reconciliation ending "ultimately with our lands returned to us"
The functionality of returning land obviously not possible but some sort of additional funding from every canadians poket book seems inevitable.
resources like fish seem to be the easy hanging fruit for now.
-
Get over yourself Ralphie Lad. You simply ain't all you pretend to be boy.
Unlike you I don't pretend to be anything other than a Popeye existentialist; I y'am what I y'am.
Where as you are just a Bluto! ::)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/popeye/images/a/ad/Mr_Bluto.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20141228234728)
-
Or a Tory by any other name is a Suppository
-
Perfect responses from the Lefty Blindered.
Thanks for proving the point. Appreciated. ;D
Nog
-
Perfect response from the Right ;D ;D ;D
-
The move towards allocating a greater % of the salmon catch to FN fishers has been going on for well over a decade. I'm sure Nog is familiar with PICFI (see link below). It started under a Conservative gov't and continued under a Liberal gov't and allowed for the retiring and transferring of commercial licences to FN groups. The push towards greater FN control over the salmon fisheries continues, with or without UNDRIP.
Anyone trying to portray this as a left vs. right political issue isn't seeing it clearly. The old school commercial anglers like Nog don't have any friends in the government, no matter which party is in power. I guess that wasn't clear until the stocks started to run low, though maybe the writing's been on the wall all along but nobody wanted to acknowledge it.
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/picfi-ipcip/index-eng.html
-
FN nets out on the south arm of Fraser tonight.
-
FN nets out on the south arm of Fraser tonight.
Three "sanctioned" chinook openings for the Cheam & counting thus far.
On the most endangered run of springs there is in that river.
Nog
-
Maybe they are sharing with those bands up North because of their lack of fish...... ;)
-
FN nets out on the south arm of Fraser tonight.
There have been eulachon drift net openings on the lower river this week. Opening for springs are supposedly for 1st Salmon ceremonies and they are generally allowed 1 fish though some bands have declined the opportunity as they did last year.
-
...Opening for springs are supposedly for 1st Salmon ceremonies and they are generally allowed 1 fish though some bands have declined the opportunity as they did last year.
(https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
-
There have been eulachon drift net openings on the lower river this week. Opening for springs are supposedly for 1st Salmon ceremonies and they are generally allowed 1 fish though some bands have declined the opportunity as they did last year.
Yeah these ceremonial openings are insignificant compared to the usual communal openings that took place around this time of the year. The LFFA is well aware of the low abundance of early Fraser chinook and is doing their part to limit efforts.
That said, there have been quite a bit of net poaching going on in recent weeks unfortunately.
-
There have been eulachon drift net openings on the lower river this week. Opening for springs are supposedly for 1st Salmon ceremonies and they are generally allowed 1 fish though some bands have declined the opportunity as they did last year.
according to ken malloways facebook page its actually 3-6 fish per opening or it might be per conditional license. Yes not a wide scale opening often only 1 fishermen licensed for a small amount.
I don't no if you have or have not read the Marine Conservation Caucus (MCC) feedback but they do talk about this, Even the ENGO's are saying its a big issue
"Estimates of ‘Missing’ Chinook
It is recognized there is a significant discrepancy between the number of 4-2 and 5-2 Chinook estimated
at Albion and the number that arrives on the spawning grounds. To date there has been little effort to
quantify this discrepancy or identify what is contributing to this discrepancy. A research program should
be put into place in 2020 to identify the fate of these ‘missing’ Chinook."
-
maybe someone should also note the reported FN net fishing and other side issues have no relation to UNDRIP or Bill C-262.
-
the UN needs to be completely defunded.