Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on January 23, 2020, 09:40:02 AM
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Sounds reasonable. No fishing over spawning fish should be the default.
Guides won't like it.
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Seems like there is no scientific bases to close the tidal portion of the fraser river not to mention sturgeon in the tidal portion fall fully under DFO control.
There is also no defined boundary for the tidal portion mentioned. There is no provided creel surveys on angler effort over the years. There is no mention on how the provence plans to enforce the closure. Will they be doing boat patrols? During the month of june critically endangered chinook and sockeye populations are migrating. Without eyes on the water there will be a significant need to increase patrols during this time. will this be conducted and will funding be provided?
No long term rebuilding plan for sturgeon provided, No mention of the kill fishery in columbia river where fraser sturg have also been tag. No mention of the effects of catch and release on spawning fish. No mention of studies conducted on the effects of catch and release on sturg.
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A months income taking out of the sturgeon guides pockets and lost tourism dollars for the local communities in a prime time month of June. Ouch. This is going to hurt. Will there be any enforcement to negate the ongoing poacher activity that will take place during this closure?
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There is also no defined boundary for the tidal portion mentioned...
............mission railway bridge is the Fraser tidal boundary for regulation purposes
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Oh boy RIP early chinook
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............mission railway bridge is the Fraser tidal boundary for regulation purposes
I was more referring to how far out into the ocean it would extend
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Seems like there is no scientific bases to close the tidal portion of the fraser river not to mention sturgeon in the tidal portion fall fully under DFO control.
There is also no defined boundary for the tidal portion mentioned. There is no provided creel surveys on angler effort over the years. There is no mention on how the provence plans to enforce the closure. Will they be doing boat patrols? During the month of june critically endangered chinook and sockeye populations are migrating. Without eyes on the water there will be a significant need to increase patrols during this time. will this be conducted and will funding be provided?
No long term rebuilding plan for sturgeon provided, No mention of the kill fishery in columbia river where fraser sturg have also been tag. No mention of the effects of catch and release on spawning fish. No mention of studies conducted on the effects of catch and release on sturg.
I love this.
I'd love to know how many sturgeon a year die from salmon nets, prop strikes and how many Fraser fish are retained in the Columbia river each year. I feel that the data is there for C&R mortality rates for Fraser river Sturgeon and the others I mentioned above we dont have enough data on. I'd this moves forward I feel that the numbers will continue to fall. I think DFO needs to invest in a drone opperation and monitor the nets better. Without guides on the river the month of June, poaching of Salmon will spike.
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Sounds reasonable. No fishing over spawning fish should be the default.
Guides won't like it.
Agreed. Leave them be while spawning.
In response to wildman's comment about the scientific basis for the closure: sturgeon don't spawn every year so leaving them alone when they do spawn is more important than with some other species. It's also been documented that sturgeon under high levels of stress (including due to C&R) may reabsorb their eggs into their body and skip the entire spawning process for that year.
Regardless of your take on this proposal, everyone seems to agree that more DFO patrols on the Fraser would be a good thing. I love the idea of using drones to cover more area with ever-shrinking budgets.
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Sturgeon don’t spawn in the tidal Fraser. This closure is more political based then conservation based.
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Everyone has read the proposal before commenting right? And it is a proposal which is open for consultations...
The reasoning behind the proposed Tidal Fraser River closure is to protect migrating fish and preventing a surge of fishing pressure from the closure in the non-tidal portion.
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Everyone has read the proposal before commenting right? And it is a proposal which is open for consultations...
The reasoning behind the proposed Tidal Fraser River closure is to protect migrating fish and preventing a surge of fishing pressure from the closure in the non-tidal portion.
I have no plans to engage with the Provence over this. I will engage with dfo since they are in charge of the tidal portion.
There is also zero evidence provided that it will cause a shift in angling effort. Also where is the evidence that they are migrating in June though the tidal portion. They don’t migrate though in other months like May? What is the migratory behaviour of a sturgeon??
On Facebook First Nations said they were going to go after sturgeon fishing because of the reports that went out against their fishery. Now it seems to be happening hmmm?
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I have no plans to engage with the Provence over this. I will engage with dfo since they are in charge of the tidal portion.
There is also zero evidence provided that it will cause a shift in angling effort. Also where is the evidence that they are migrating in June though the tidal portion. They don’t migrate though in other months like May? What is the migratory behaviour of a sturgeon??
On Facebook First Nations said they were going to go after sturgeon fishing because of the reports that went out against their fishery. Now it seems to be happening hmmm?
If a FN fishery for Sturgeon opens up so will the black market. Itll be game over at that point. The province and DFO ( also many FN leaders that care about the fishery ) wont ve in favor of this.
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If a FN fishery for Sturgeon opens up so will the black market. Itll be game over at that point. The province and DFO ( also many FN leaders that care about the fishery ) wont ve in favor of this.
Nothing would surprise me anymore.
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On Facebook First Nations said they were going to go after sturgeon fishing because of the reports that went out against their fishery. Now it seems to be happening hmmm?
I guess policy direction by Facebook posts? Here I thought it was via Twitter feed! Which do you think is more reliable since you don't seem to bother with what's stated by FN bands via their council statements.
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https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/fishing-hunting/fishing/fishing-regulations
Here is a copy paste to the link provided by Rod in his original post.
I have gone there a few times trying to find more info, however I have not been able to find anything? Maybe someone has a different link to the public consultation page?
I will be trying to get more info via the email link provided as well in the mean time.
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"...will be posted when available..." ;)
As mentioned earlier, region 2 biologists who are working on this will be at my event Chilliwack's All About Fishing on March 14th for anyone who wishes to ask questions and provide them feedbacks in person. More info soon.
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Thank you Rod, so our comments here and other forums are the only location to discuss until further notice........... ;)
Everyone has read the proposal before commenting right? And it is a proposal which is open for consultations...
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I guess policy direction by Facebook posts? Here I thought it was via Twitter feed! Which do you think is more reliable since you don't seem to bother with what's stated by FN bands via their council statements.
I put a lot of weight into what members like Ken malloway have to say considering they have been really accurate over the last 4 years.
I also never said that they were going to go after it as in fishing for them. However they said if they cant use gill nets then close down Catch and Release rec sturg fishing. As you know a lot of noise in the last few years has been made about gillnets in the Fraser largery by the rec fishing community.
its been a threat presented in a number of different forums.
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"...will be posted when available..." ;)
As mentioned earlier, region 2 biologists who are working on this will be at my event Chilliwack's All About Fishing on March 14th for anyone who wishes to ask questions and provide them feedbacks in person. More info soon.
Rod I know a number of prominent sports fishing industry people were involved with this behind the scenes. Is there generally support from these industry people for the june closure?
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there has been concern within the angling community concerning the extent of angling pressure that's been placed on sturgeon in the last period of years. Calls to reform how the fishery operates isn't restricted to certain members of FN peoples.
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unfortunately the FN group would love nothing more than keeping the sturgeon guides and fishermen off the river.
less eyes to see what's actually taking place out there in the way of illegal netting and harvesting of sturgeon sold to downtown restaurants in Chinatown!
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unfortunately the FN group would love nothing more than keeping the sturgeon guides and fishermen off the river.
less eyes to see what's actually taking place out there in the way of illegal netting and harvesting of sturgeon sold to downtown restaurants in Chinatown!
Agreed, but don't paint all FN with the same brush.
I've seen FN releasing Sturgeon around the Fort Langley area more than once during their Salmon openings but I've also had a few people tell me that they could buy Sturgeon meat from individuals in Mission also. This is no secret.
Some bands (I'm not sure how many or possibly all) want to be able to keep some Sturgeon for food. I read an article a few months ago re this.
Poaching is a larger problem than we hear about imo and there are all types of people doing it. Sturgeon = money.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/fraser-river-sturgeon-catch-and-release-fishery-under-scrutiny
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For anyone that is interested here's a cut and paste from my FlyBC posting.
I'm a hardcore Sturgeon guy and fish for them more than any other type of fishery the last 5 years. I'm glad to see the closure.
Herrling Island area above and below gets hammered that time of year because that's where the fish are. Most people can have multiple fish days at the bars mentioned. Female Sturgeon hooked multiple times reabsorb their eggs and cannot spawn successfully. These fish aren't fast growing. They don't have the same cycles of Salmon.
Poor spawn rates coupled with dead fish from improper handling, Sturgeon caught in nets that don't survive (look at the Albion and Whonnock test sets), poaching (which is way to common. 2 heads were found of approx a 5ft and 8 ft Sturgeon at the mouth of the Stave River this past Nov. The poachers had hook sets hanging off a net from the train bridge. It was reported )...... are all taking it's toll on these slow reproducing fish. One dead 7 ft Sturgeon is approx 30 - 40 years old. This fishery can't take multiple fish deaths since these fish take so long to acquire their large size. Every fish is important.
I get how this may affect the guides but something has to be done or they will not have a viable fishery in the near future. The added bonus of a June closure would be that many people excluding Guides don't fish the high water. The Fraser is quite imposing during that time of year and imo should be left to people that know the river and high water well.
I would like to see a closure of the wintering holes also from Dec 15 to March 15th. If you know the holes, you can catch fish non stop all day. Most of these fish are small mostly 4ft and under even though you can hook 5-6 ft with the odd larger fish mixed in. Sturgeon can still be caught in the main stem Fraser in the winter but are not as abundant as other seasons. At this time of year the fish are sluggish due to low water temperatures and don't revive as well. You also have higher snag rates since some fish will sit on the food to be eaten later.
In the first year I had my boat I fished a certain wintering hole twice and decided to not do it again for my own ethical reasons. I also won't fish for Sturgeon with water temps under 40 degrees.
I remember in 2015 when we where out Sturgeon fishing towards the end of Dec, we were next to a guide boat with customers. I was talking with the guide later and he said he was involved in a tagging program and that's why he was fishing the wintering holes. Most guides on their sites advertise year round Sturgeon fishing and I was told many of them are tagging that time of year.
This is a very complicated issue. People from all over the world come to BC with their money that supports so many different industries while fishing for these magnificent fish. We need to do more for these bucket list brutes if we want to enjoy them and what they bring to us into the future.
I'm hoping some of the guides will chime in and give us a clearer picture of what they feel needs to be done or changed to make sure we will always have these fish around.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/docs/ws_guidelines.pdf
https://hctf.ca/sturgeon-handling-video-debut/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg7zC95ei5wIVSx-tBh3dLgVsEAAYASAAEgINhfD_BwE
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I'm hoping some of the guides will chime in and give us a clearer picture of what they feel needs to be done or changed to make sure we will always have these fish around.
I am somewhat shocked we have not had a statement from Dean Werk yet. I suspect there is a fine thread that needs to be weaved through a tight needle on this subject.
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I am somewhat shocked we have not had a statement from Dean Werk yet. I suspect there is a fine thread that needs to be weaved through a tight needle on this subject.
X2
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100% agree with you 4x4!
I have many first nations friends that are very aware of the situation with Sturgeon on the Fraser as well as the other fisheries and are very law abiding
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hmmm......
3. First Nations Food, Social and Ceremonial Fishery Opportunities
In 2019, Lower Fraser First Nations had a total of approximately 8 weekends of fishing. Often these are
impeded by Recreational fisheries that result in their fishers anchoring or passing through drifting, set
netting and beach seine sites. With such limited opportunity and time to pursue a portion of our annual
salmon needs, DFO and the Province must take action in 2020 to eliminate all Recreational fisheries during
Lower Fraser FSC fisheries. It is imperative that FSC opportunities are practiced safely and that the limited
time on the water is achieved with every chance to be reasonably successful.
Sincerely,
Ken Malloway, Chair Sally Hope, Co-Chair
Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
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hmmm......
3. First Nations Food, Social and Ceremonial Fishery Opportunities
In 2019, Lower Fraser First Nations had a total of approximately 8 weekends of fishing. Often these are
impeded by Recreational fisheries that result in their fishers anchoring or passing through drifting, set
netting and beach seine sites. With such limited opportunity and time to pursue a portion of our annual
salmon needs, DFO and the Province must take action in 2020 to eliminate all Recreational fisheries during
Lower Fraser FSC fisheries. It is imperative that FSC opportunities are practiced safely and that the limited
time on the water is achieved with every chance to be reasonably successful.
Sincerely,
Ken Malloway, Chair Sally Hope, Co-Chair
Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Makes me wonder if this June closure is to stop rec anglers from "impeding" with early chinook "FSC" opportunities.....
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Makes me wonder if this June closure is to stop rec anglers from "impeding" with early chinook "FSC" opportunities.....
The likelihood of chinook salmon openings prior to July is small in the near future, so no.
Ken Malloway’s point may not be popular among recreational anglers, but he does have a point on user conflicts.
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I find this comment insulting actually:
"Often these are
impeded by Recreational fisheries that result in their fishers anchoring or passing through drifting, set
netting and beach seine sites."
I would like to think our recreational anglers have come a long way since the conflicts of the 90's even early 2000's on the fraser. This statement paints a very strong disregard for first nation fisheries by rec anglers which in my opinion really is off based.
I am not saying this does not inadvertently happen from time to time, but I will bet that 99% of the time these conflicts would not happen if respect was given by both parties.
Honestly I am tired of being told that recreational anglers as a whole are a problem. If they have an issue on the river with a recreational angler, report it and wait for a response like I am asked to do when I witness an infraction.
The problem is not and should not be painted as a recreational angler issue, this is a management issue. Until our province and Federal government are prepared to make big changes in their structure any work we do as recreational/ commercial/first nation anglers there will aways be name blaming, especially at a time like now where those who cry loudest get heard
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I find this comment insulting actually:
"Often these are
impeded by Recreational fisheries that result in their fishers anchoring or passing through drifting, set
netting and beach seine sites."
I would like to think our recreational anglers have come a long way since the conflicts of the 90's even early 2000's on the fraser. This statement paints a very strong disregard for first nation fisheries by rec anglers which in my opinion really is off based.
I am not saying this does not inadvertently happen from time to time, but I will bet that 99% of the time these conflicts would not happen if respect was given by both parties.
Honestly I am tired of being told that recreational anglers as a whole are a problem. If they have an issue on the river with a recreational angler, report it and wait for a response like I am asked to do when I witness an infraction.
The problem is not and should not be painted as a recreational angler issue, this is a management issue. Until our province and Federal government are prepared to make big changes in their structure any work we do as recreational/ commercial/first nation anglers there will aways be name blaming, especially at a time like now where those who cry loudest get heard
Just trying to squeeze the last life blood out of the recreational fishery on the fraser river. The sturgeon fishery
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Where was that taken from btw wildmanyeah? Is it through a private email to you?
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Where was that taken from btw wildmanyeah? Is it through a private email to you?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2n4rv0j9dgmzxk/2020%20IFMP%20Priorities%20Feedback%20Package%20Jan-24-2020.pdf?dl=0
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Just trying to squeeze the last life blood out of the recreational fishery on the fraser river. The sturgeon fishery
This is exactly it.
The sturgeon fishery is all that is left on the Fraser for the sporties. A small June closure sounds good in a vacuum, but ANYONE with their head NOT in the sand knows this will lead to the sturgeon fishery completely being shut down for the Recreational Fishery.
Everything that is happening and that has already happened on the Fraser, I predicated years ago and my timeline has been pretty much dead on. I gave the sturgeon fishery until 2025, but I'm thinking that may have been generous.
Once we are closed down for Sturgeon under current management, we will never be allowed on the Fraser again...aside from the what the future MAY hold in the form of possible First Nations guided fishing only or perhaps some sort of pay fishery (again...with the proceeds going to First Nations for fishing on their river)
Sad state of affairs.
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I do run drones through my business. Fully licensed as well. If someone is really concerned about the activities of others on the river during a closure I'll be happy to contract some flight time.
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"This statement paints a very strong disregard for first nation fisheries by rec anglers which in my opinion really is off based.
I am not saying this does not inadvertently happen from time to time, but I will bet that 99% of the time these conflicts would not happen if respect was given by both parties.
Honestly I am tired of being told that recreational anglers as a whole are a problem. If they have an issue on the river with a recreational angler, report it and wait for a response like I am asked to do when I witness an infraction.
The problem is not and should not be painted as a recreational angler issue, this is a management issue.
I suspect First Nations feel much the same way in regards to being painted with the same brush for the actions of a handful of bad actors. The statement re: respect given by both parties seems to fall into that category as well, implying that if there have been conflicts that it was most likely brought on by a disrepectful FN fisher.
The significant increase in pressure on sturgeon in the Lower Fraser makes some kind of management a no brainer. This is such a unique fishery that we in BC are still lucky to have. It's funny, once salmon populations go down the toilet people squawk that something should have been done, but when a proactive step is taken with a much more fragile fishery the self-interest takes over.
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I suspect First Nations feel much the same way in regards to being painted with the same brush for the actions of a handful of bad actors. The statement re: respect given by both parties seems to fall into that category as well, implying that if there have been conflicts that it was most likely brought on by a disrepectful FN fisher.
The significant increase in pressure on sturgeon in the Lower Fraser makes some kind of management a no brainer. This is such a unique fishery that we in BC are still lucky to have. It's funny, once salmon populations go down the toilet people squawk that something should have been done, but when a proactive step is taken with a much more fragile fishery the self-interest takes over.
Yes but we need management measures that will actually increase the sturgeon population. To be honest there will be more sturgeon killed from the extra poaching that will happen then this proposed regulation could ever save. Root problems are never addressed or dealt with. Our government “manages” fish populations by closing recreational fisheries and wait for all the sheep to forget about it.
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I suspect First Nations feel much the same way in regards to being painted with the same brush for the actions of a handful of bad actors. The statement re: respect given by both parties seems to fall into that category as well, implying that if there have been conflicts that it was most likely brought on by a disrepectful FN fisher.
The significant increase in pressure on sturgeon in the Lower Fraser makes some kind of management a no brainer. This is such a unique fishery that we in BC are still lucky to have. It's funny, once salmon populations go down the toilet people squawk that something should have been done, but when a proactive step is taken with a much more fragile fishery the self-interest takes over.
Not squaking dribbles and don't turn my words into me implying that these conflicts are because of disrespectful fn members. My comments are not because of my self interest as you should be able to figure out by reading my past post in this thread. I have nothing to lose or gain from this closure or any other closure for that matter.
Mr. Malloway is a very influential member who should be looking for solutions and resolution without using his power to make statements that are far from what takes place on the river today. Statements like these are heard and taken at par with little regard to learn more about the work that has been done over many years to curb this kind of behaviour.
We are deffintly at a cross road where one can not say anything without being racist or told to think about how others must have felt for years, I get it, but please don't think you know who or what I represent or feel of others.
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I just had a dinner on Sunday night with a friend of mine from the Tsleil-Waututh Nation. It's always funny hearing his side of the argument. Its truly amazing to hear of the growth on that side 9f the equation. They have a large seafood corporation with two other bands and sell millions of dollars of Crabs and Salmon. He says growth is off the charts. Even he doesnt want non-FN catching salmon. He hates the fact that I fish period. It's amazing to see the power FN bands are gaining on a daily bassis. It's insane. Side note, did any of you people know that if you are born into the Tsleil-Waututh Nation, you recover $1000 a year from birth. It's set aside in a trust fund till you reach 18 years. If you decide to attend university, the nation pays you your living expenses and tuition. Talk about token.
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Side note, did any of you people know that if you are born into the Tsleil-Waututh Nation, you recover $1000 a year from birth. It's set aside in a trust fund till you reach 18 years. If you decide to attend university, the nation pays you your living expenses and tuition. Talk about token.
just to be clear, do you see a problem with this. am i reading this right?
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i dont believe the fighting between user groups does any good for anyone. we have a common goal and want to see sustainable salmon and sturgeon stocks. if we combine are efforts between first nation, commercial and recreational imagine the lobbying power we would have to see real change in both funding and management.
one of my best friends is a sts'ailes member and a recreational fisherman. he holds all the same licence's that i do to fish recreationally. he also fishes with traditional methods when called upon by his family.
what we really need is a political ally that will stand up for salmon and sturgeon. someone that can rally support across user groups.
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i dont believe the fighting between user groups does any good for anyone. we have a common goal and want to see sustainable salmon and sturgeon stocks. if we combine are efforts between first nation, commercial and recreational imagine the lobbying power we would have to see real change in both funding and management.
one of my best friends is a sts'ailes member and a recreational fisherman. he holds all the same licence's that i do to fish recreationally. he also fishes with traditional methods when called upon by his family.
what we really need is a political ally that will stand up for salmon and sturgeon. someone that can rally support across user groups.
True but not how the FN feel. They truly want everyone other than themselves off the water. They really do. FN corporations have taken more pieces of the pie away from the commercial and rec is not allowed to fish before they have their quotas ( in times of low abundance). How is this not clear to you ? Its black and white. High level FN leaders have said in the past publicly that they dont want non-FN fishing for salmon. It doesnt get any more clear than that. Put the pipe down.
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Side note, did any of you people know that if you are born into the Tsleil-Waututh Nation, you recover $1000 a year from birth. It's set aside in a trust fund till you reach 18 years. If you decide to attend university, the nation pays you your living expenses and tuition. Talk about token.
Why do you bring this up in a conversation about sturgeon regs? Is it to stir up anti-FN sentiment?
On a side note, I think it'a great that bands are lowering the barriers for FN kids to get educated. The high school graduation rate for FN kids is about 20% lower than the general population so any help, financial or otherwise, is great news :D
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True but not how the FN feel. They truly want everyone other than themselves off the water. They really do. FN corporations have taken more pieces of the pie away from the commercial and rec is not allowed to fish before they have their quotas ( in times of low abundance). How is this not clear to you ? Its black and white. High level FN leaders have said in the past publicly that they dont want non-FN fishing for salmon. It doesnt get any more clear than that. Put the pipe down.
I think what may be pissing you off is that FNs have learned to talk and think like you and like "whitey".
Imitation is a form of flattery.
I have lived in BC for over 60 years and until recent years never met a sporty who didn't think FNs shouldn't have what limited rights they had to fish for food, revoked, forced to buy a spin rod and be sent away to residential school.
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True but not how the FN feel. They truly want everyone other than themselves off the water. They really do. FN corporations have taken more pieces of the pie away from the commercial and rec is not allowed to fish before they have their quotas ( in times of low abundance). How is this not clear to you ? Its black and white. High level FN leaders have said in the past publicly that they dont want non-FN fishing for salmon. It doesnt get any more clear than that. Put the pipe down.
can you blame them. look at the current stocks and tell me they don't have anything to fear. they have been able to harvest salmon for 1000's of years. we show up and almost decimated the population within 100 years. if you think conservation is not high on their priorities list you are mistaken.
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Why do you bring this up in a conversation about sturgeon regs? Is it to stir up anti-FN sentiment?
On a side note, I think it'a great that bands are lowering the barriers for FN kids to get educated. The high school graduation rate for FN kids is about 20% lower than the general population so any help, financial or otherwise, is great news :D
love initiatives like this. education is the true route out of poverty. also educated people have less room for hate.
my uncle did that exact same thing for me every birthday till i turned 18. i didn't pursue any post secondary education except for the schooling that enabled me to get my red seal which did not require any out of pocket expense. with that $ i was able to buy my first house and for that i am ever grateful.
my point is that a little invest in people can go a long way into making a better society and i believe education is key.
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can you blame them. look at the current stocks and tell me they don't have anything to fear. they have been able to harvest salmon for 1000's of years. we show up and almost decimated the population within 100 years. if you think conservation is not high on their priorities list you are mistaken.
I dont blame them at all. Not in the least bit. I am just trying to scrap it out for myself and other people like me. That's who I care about. I have zero sympathy for them. They are an EXTREMELY privilege group in our country. Do I have feelings for the way they were treated in the past ? A little bit but that was done by the Catholic Church and executed by the government at the time. My fathers family has a long history with FN and trading. I have no guilt there. It's not my personal fault things are the way they are. I'm just looking out for myself at the end of the day.
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I dont blame them at all. Not in the least bit. I am just trying to scrap it out for myself and other people like me. That's who I care about. I have zero sympathy for them. They are an EXTREMELY privilege group in our country. Do I have feelings for the way they were treated in the past ? A little bit but that was done by the Catholic Church and executed by the government at the time. My fathers family has a long history with FN and trading. I have no guilt there. It's not my personal fault things are the way they are. I'm just looking out for myself at the end of the day.
Actually the residential schools were run by both Catholic (including the Jesuits) and Protestant denominations including the Anglican Church and Methodists. The Federal Government established them in law, funded them and oversaw them. The law literally stated the objective was to wipe out FN culture which posed a threat to the economic development of the Country.
Calling FNs "extremely privileged" is kind of akin to saying that chickens are extremely privileged birds because they can fly. FNs are at the bottom of the socio-economic pile by every parameter. Across the Canada few FN communities have access to an economic resource comparable to the fisheries and ocean resources that FNs have in Coastal BC. It is a relatively unique situation.
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It is foolish to state that First Nations across Canada are privileged. But it is equally foolish to state that FN poaching and abuse of the resources does not happen either. Yes, 99 of all First Nations want to simply live a good, law abiding life. But all it takes is 1 with a boat and a few hundred meters of gill net to decimate stocks when returns are this poor. Many have to understand that just because the Band asks for something does not mean 100% of its members will follow.
It is never as simple as it appears, but First Nations must not be given blanket immunity. Yes, they fished for thousands of years until we came along. But they were awfully quick to jump in boats and use huge nets when given the chance. The salmon don't care who kills them, they are still dead. That is the point. And sport fisherman sure kill a lot less.
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Two years ago my son was diagnosed with severe speech issues. While apply to get goverment assistance for speech therapy one of the DR for some reason checked the box that he was First Nations.
two things occurred that were very disturbing to my wife who received a call almost immediately.
1. They asked my wife if she was the parental guardian because apparently with First Nations that's not usually the case and
2. They could get him immediately. Upon indicating on the phone that he was not First Nations she then told my wife that she would have to put him on the regular list, he may not be eligible and the wait list was up to a year.
The part my Wife found disturbing was the lady found it surprising that my wife being the mother was still the parental guardian and still in my son's life. Strangely enough when she was transferred over to non first nations, That question was never asked.
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It is foolish to state that First Nations across Canada are privileged. But it is equally foolish to state that FN poaching and abuse of the resources does not happen either. Yes, 99 of all First Nations want to simply live a good, law abiding life. But all it takes is 1 with a boat and a few hundred meters of gill net to decimate stocks when returns are this poor. Many have to understand that just because the Band asks for something does not mean 100% of its members will follow.
It is never as simple as it appears, but First Nations must not be given blanket immunity. Yes, they fished for thousands of years until we came along. But they were awfully quick to jump in boats and use huge nets when given the chance. The salmon don't care who kills them, they are still dead. That is the point. And sport fisherman sure kill a lot less.
couldn't agree with you more, but the fighting between user groups does nobody any good. we all have a common goal and the faster people relieaze this the faster we can actually save the species we all cherish so much.
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anyways..back on topic...With complete silence on the issue from industry representatives, I have decided im not going to spend my efforts lobbying against a June closure.
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if the scientific facts back the closure than their really is nothing to discuss.
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anyways..back on topic...With complete silence on the issue from industry representatives, I have decided im not going to spend my efforts lobbying against a June closure.
I am betting industry reps are silent because there is no real consultation process as of yet.....
Without an actual government page or town hall type forums how and where would they even begin a consultation process? Here on this forum that is being monitored by a biologist? what does that do and how transparent is that information?
I still can not find anything on-line, and like you have seen or heard zero word on what other "stakeholders or representatives" as people have called then here and where flame-basted, think of this potential recommendation. I do wonder what industry reps you think should be voicing their opinions?
It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.
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I am betting industry reps are silent because there is no real consultation process as of yet.....
Without an actual government page or town hall type forums how and where would they even begin a consultation process? Here on this forum that is being monitored by a biologist? what does that do and how transparent is that information?
I still can not find anything on-line, and like you have seen or heard zero word on what other "stakeholders or representatives" as people have called then here and where flame-basted, think of this potential recommendation. I do wonder what industry reps you think should be voicing their opinions?
It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.
In the fall a Province representative came to our SFAC and told us they they have been in consultations with industry reps for quite some time on this topic and now there are going to start rolling it out to the public. They want to implement this for the 2021 season. So thats not giving a lot of time for this to make though all the processes and consultations. As well as you correctly point out no information has been provided online.
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It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.
the facts at the vary least should have been provided already. much easier pill for people to swallow if it is back by facts.
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As mentioned earlier, if anyone would like to talk about this particular proposal, as well as a series of other ongoing issues from Upper Fraser River chinook salmon survival to Chilliwack River winter steelhead hatchery program, I highly recommend you to attend this year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing on Saturday March 14th, from 9am to 3pm, at Chilliwack Heritage Park. I have invited regional bios, some of my colleagues from UBC, BCIT, Carleton, all the main representatives from BCFFF, BCFDF, SSBC, BCWF, FRSA and just about everyone has committed to be at the show. You'll be able to address all your concerns under one roof, so the opportunities are here for you to take and make some changes.
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As mentioned earlier, if anyone would like to talk about this particular proposal, as well as a series of other ongoing issues from Upper Fraser River chinook salmon survival to Chilliwack River winter steelhead hatchery program, I highly recommend you to attend this year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing on Saturday March 14th, from 9am to 3pm, at Chilliwack Heritage Park. I have invited regional bios, some of my colleagues from UBC, BCIT, Carleton, all the main representatives from BCFFF, BCFDF, SSBC, BCWF, FRSA and just about everyone has committed to be at the show. You'll be able to address all your concerns under one roof, so the opportunities are here for you to take and make some changes.
Being at the show is great but in what capacity as far as asking questions goes?
How will we go about addressing our concerns to these people?
Are they having seminars or question periods or......
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There will be individual booths/tables where you have six hours to visit and talk to individuals.
It seems like people have a lot to say on these forums. I’ve created a channel for you all to voice your opinions to just about every group you can think of under one roof, take advantage of it.
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It's obvious that board members can be a fairly skeptical lot.
My advice...take a chill pill. Be patient. The Information Note that Rod posted states that consultation will happen in 2020. We are only 6 weeks into the new year.
The IN was just a heads up. If they started consultation with no heads up, people would be up in arms "Where did this come from?" "Why weren't we advised?" The ministry is laddering their communications and consultation, and the IN is just the first step in that.
The IN also gave the email address of the biologist and it suggested that interested parties can request further information from him. If you are chomping at the bit to make your voice heard, then maybe Mr. Schwindt can give you more details about the planned consultation process. IMHO, it shows a certain amount of transparency to post the email address of the biologist responsible for the file.
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It's obvious that board members can be a fairly skeptical lot.
My advice...take a chill pill. Be patient. The Information Note that Rod posted states that consultation will happen in 2020. We are only 6 weeks into the new year.
The IN was just a heads up. If they started consultation with no heads up, people would be up in arms "Where did this come from?" "Why weren't we advised?" The ministry is laddering their communications and consultation, and the IN is just the first step in that.
The IN also gave the email address of the biologist and it suggested that interested parties can request further information from him. If you are chomping at the bit to make your voice heard, then maybe Mr. Schwindt can give you more details about the planned consultation process. IMHO, it shows a certain amount of transparency to post the email address of the biologist responsible for the file.
Yep. :)
Again my recommendation to all who are concerned about this to make an effort to stop by the event on March 14th so you can get more information directly from Colin and also provide your feedbacks. While there, you'll also be able to talk to both COs and DFO officers if you have concerns on compliance....
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There is a public SFAC meeting in chilliwack and Surrey. its open to all public all are welcome.
I have been told someone from the Province will be attending these meetings to talk about sturgeon
March 12, 2020 Upper Fraser Valley SFAC Chilliwack Coast Chilliwack Hotel 45920 First Ave., Chilliwack BC
6:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m.
Contact: Barbara Mueller
Chair: Gerry Dewar
March 10, 2020 Lower Fraser Valley SFAC Surrey Comfort Inn & Suites 8255 166 Street, Surrey BC
6:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m.
Contact: Barbara Mueller
Chair: Jason Tonelli
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Is this June closure happening ?
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Is this June closure happening ?
not this year
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Ok thanks