Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on November 15, 2019, 05:33:59 AM
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I filmed this last night as Fraser Valley Salmon Society president Dean Werk makes a presentation to Fisheries Oceans Pacific Salmon Management Team. Thanks Dean for this
and writing this and giving the presentation as the FVSS continues to take a front line for you, the recreational angler.
Sorry for the bad quality of the tape and filming at the end but the. message is the most important thing. I need a new camera.
https://youtu.be/kDWUptiZdlk
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wow piss poor attendance, guess no one cares about fishing anymore.
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Hey, at least angling reps outnumber DFO staff for once. ;D ::)
After being involved in this process for 15 years, I'm sadly still the youngest one there. I thought with all the bitching and whining about the closures by so many vocal individuals on social media and forum, at least a few more of these well informed individuals would show up to give their feedbacks. ::)
Thanks to FVSS directors (they made up 6 of the 9 reps last night) for the ongoing effort.
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I took you up on your challenge Rod, and this past week I attended my first SFAB meeting. The angling reps were quite concerned about the saltwater chinook closures, which ain't my jam, but it was interesting to listen to the conversation. There were a couple of very interesting presentation about 2019 south coast salmon stock assessment. Pretty grim overall, with Fraser pinks being the one semi-bright spot.
What was interesting is the relative health of the summer (Thompson) 4-1 chinook, as compared to the spring and summer 5-2 and 4-2 stocks. Since the 4-1 just spend 1 year in freshwater as opposed to the other stocks that spend 2, the presenter wondered aloud if there was so something going on in freshwater in that the fish that spent less time in it fared better. He wasn’t substituting causation for correlation, and was just wondering aloud, but it was food for thought.
I will say that I was gained a new appreciation for the complexities of stock assessment, the effort and resources that DFO puts into it, and the challenges of managing fisheries when stocks/species are co-mingled, especially when some stocks arrive late as the Fraser pinks did this year. Sure DFO made some unpopular management decisions, but it becomes harder to vilify them when you listen to them and understand the complexities of the issues.
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I took you up on your challenge Rod, and this past week I attended my first SFAB meeting. The angling reps were quite concerned about the saltwater chinook closures, which ain't my jam, but it was interesting to listen to the conversation. There were a couple of very interesting presentation about 2019 south coast salmon stock assessment. Pretty grim overall, with Fraser pinks being the one semi-bright spot.
What was interesting is the relative health of the summer (Thompson) 4-1 chinook, as compared to the spring and summer 5-2 and 4-2 stocks. Since the 4-1 just spend 1 year in freshwater as opposed to the other stocks that spend 2, the presenter wondered aloud if there was so something going on in freshwater in that the fish that spent less time in it fared better. He wasn’t substituting causation for correlation, and was just wondering aloud, but it was food for thought.
I will say that I was gained a new appreciation for the complexities of stock assessment, the effort and resources that DFO puts into it, and the challenges of managing fisheries when stocks/species are co-mingled, especially when some stocks arrive late as the Fraser pinks did this year. Sure DFO made some unpopular management decisions, but it becomes harder to vilify them when you listen to them and understand the complexities of the issues.
The Chilliwack SFAC tends to focus more on all the freshwater salmon stuff, Thanks for coming Clarki
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Hey, at least angling reps outnumber DFO staff for once. ;D ::)
After being involved in this process for 15 years, I'm sadly still the youngest one there. I thought with all the bitching and whining about the closures by so many vocal individuals on social media and forum, at least a few more of these well informed individuals would show up to give their feedbacks. ::)
Thanks to FVSS directors (they made up 6 of the 9 reps last night) for the ongoing effort.
And I was the oldest.
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I took you up on your challenge Rod, and this past week I attended my first SFAB meeting.
That's great Clarki! Good to hear.
Stock assessment and forecast is way more complex than people think. The one thing that irks me to see average joes suggesting that they could do a better job on managing our fish than those who are academically qualified for the job.
As frustrating as these issues can be, it's really nice to sit through the 3 hour meeting to listen to all the information being presented. We always walk out with a much better understanding on the challenges ahead of us.
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wow piss poor attendance, guess no one cares about fishing anymore.
I don't know how many times I've said this. There is nothing left fight for.
Although I don't take part anymore, I did in the 90s when we actually thought we had a bit of a voice. Here in 2019 our voice box has literally been ripped out of our throat. We have zero say...zero influence. What is the point of attending?
If the Fraser Pink fishery fiasco this year wasn't enough to show people the reality of where sporties rate....nothing will.
How is it that the size of the run magically went from 5million to almost 10 million in a matter of days....and of course it wasn't announced until after all the nice fresh fish had got through....and even then.....we still didn't get an opening anyways.
You can believe what you want. We were outright lied to in order to keep us off the river.
It still boggles my mind that people think we can win this....It's over. Why would anyone want to waste 3 hours of their evening to hear nothing more than lip service?
Sorry for being negative, but I'm a realist...and unlike many members here....I do see the forest for the trees.
You say you guess no one cares about fishing. That has nothing to do with it. I'd give anything to have those glory days back.
What you are asking is for us to climb Mt Everest in a tank top and flipflops. Do you even understand what we are up against?
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Ha! Cool. Take a hike, stay uneducated, be part of the problem. :)
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Ha! Cool. Take a hike, stay uneducated, be part of the problem. :)
Why is it you when I ask valid questions, you just make childish comments?
Why don't you address my questions....and I know you know they are definitely real and valid.
And don't give me the BS that its because you don't like me.....you do the same to many other members here when they ask the same questions.....you just conveniently sidestep them.
Not to mention it's really arrogant of you to assume I'm not educated in these matters. I've been doing this much longer than you.
The main difference between you and me is I'm not a sheep that believes everything DFO tells us. I actually recognize a lie when one is in front of me.
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How is it that the size of the run magically went from 5million to almost 10 million in a matter of days....and of course it wasn't
99% of the pinks returned though the JDF and dfo is poor at enumerating them when that happens. Apparently the pinks were relatively early while the late run sockeye were late and that created an overlap in timing and tuff management conditions.
Don't worry Robert there lots of old cranky dudes that show up so you were well represented lol my comment was more towards the young people that complain.
Like it or not DFO uses this process to "consult" with rep anglers. Less people, less voices and they can say well 5 people showed up.
everyone feels your frustration we are all frustrated but we have to try not to give up.
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No, just you actually. The attitude is pathetic and the opinions being spewed out demonstrates the uneducated (on these subjects, not in general) part.
Hey, but don’t take it personally. I am after all, judging an anonymous individual on the internet who’s using my platform to discourage people from bettering the world. How you actually are in real life I have no idea. I prefer to invest my time and effort on people who actually want to make a difference in person. And yes, I am arrogant that way. 8)
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99% of the pinks returned though the JDF and dfo is poor at enumerating them when that happens. Apparently the pinks were relatively early while the late run sockeye were late and that created an overlap in timing and tuff management conditions.
I don't know how long you've been doing this, but what I can tell you is that I've heard that song and dance too many times now to believe I'm being told the truth from DFO.
I prefer to invest my time and effort on people who actually want to make a difference in person.
Encouraging people on learning how to piss in the wind sounds like a great idea. Can't say I've ever tried it before.
And yes, I am arrogant
First thing you've been right about today.
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I don't know how long you've been doing this, but what I can tell you is that I've heard that song and dance too many times now to believe I'm being told the truth from DFO.
Encouraging people on learning how to piss in the wind sounds like a great idea. Can't say I've ever tried it before.
First thing you've been right about today.
Here is a friendly reminder in case you forgot why your "valid" questions don't get answered. 8)
Like I said, I'm not about to engage in a meaningful discussion on racism and discrimination with someone who lacks the empathy and respect for others (not toward me, I couldn't care less what you think about me, since everything is based on what has been presented online), not just in this particular discussion, but in all previous threads.
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Here is a friendly reminder in case you forgot why your "valid" questions don't get answered. 8)
And like I said....there are many others here you don't answer as well....regardless of whether in your opinion, you find them respectful or not....so keep your BS about respect and empathy to yourself. I'm not buying it.
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That's cool. Here's a cookie for being proficient at selective reading.
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99% of the pinks returned though the JDF and dfo is poor at enumerating them when that happens. Apparently the pinks were relatively early while the late run sockeye were late and that created an overlap in timing and tuff management conditions.
The overlap delayed both the in-river FSC and rec openings. Rec opening was not going to happen until FSC takes place, that is just the way it is at the moment, but I don't believe that arrangement couldn't be modified. Non-tidal remained closed due to selectivity concerns, and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the lack of will to find a solution to it. The chair of the UFV SFAC put forward a new motion on this particular matter on Thursday night, hopefully that will speed up the process on tackle regulations a bit. The inconsistency between the pink salmon rec opening/closure outside the mouth and in-river also needs to be looked at. Why was there a 4/day allowance in the salt while both the FSC and rec tidal and non-tidal Fraser were closed. One recommendation I put forward was to look into options, it shouldn't just be either 4/day or nothing, we should be looking at C/R, 1/day, 2/day as alternatives based on how well the stock is doing.
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As many of you know I and a few others said many times a few years ago on this forum that BB would come up and bite us. Well here it is from FOC.
Dear Mr. Clapton:
Thank you for your correspondence of September 15, 2019 regarding pink salmon management measures.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) recognizes that challenges are being faced by all who depend on the Pacific salmon resource for their sustenance, livelihood and recreation. The Department works with all harvest sectors to improve the management of the fishery to meet conservation objectives and achieve fishery objectives.
The Department’s Allocation Policy for Pacific Salmon (the Policy) establishes clear priorities for fisheries management. The Policy confirms that the primary objective in fisheries management is the conservation of Pacific salmon stocks, followed by government obligations to provide harvest opportunities for First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) requirements and treaty obligations.
The Policy encourages selective fishing, and DFO appreciates the recreational fishing community’s efforts to support and promote any selective fishing measures that reduce impacts on non-target species.
Recreational fishing for pink salmon upstream of Mission has remained closed primarily because in this area “bottoming bouncing” or “flossing” has been common, and this practice can result in the interception of sockeye. Given the extremely low returns of sockeye to the Fraser River this year, and very high level of conservation concern, such impacts are not something that could be accommodated this season.
While a leader restriction could reduce impacts to sockeye, the recreational sector has expressed mixed support in the past. Regulatory changes, which involve a lengthy process, would be required for DFO to implement such restrictions.
Beach seining has been permitted to enable harvest of chinook and pink salmon for First Nations FSC purposes. Sockeye retention has not been permitted in these fisheries, and the release mortality rate for sockeye and coho is low.
The opportunity for recreational pink fishing downstream from Mission closed September 20, 2019, as the steelhead window closure came into effect in that area on September 21, 2019. The steelhead window closure provides a high degree of protection for steelhead migrating up the Fraser River, with closures of commercial and recreational fisheries for 42 days over the peak of the steelhead return. First Nations FSC chum fisheries will also be constrained, with 27-day closures in effect.
To protect the resource, we also need the public’s help. If you see suspicious activity or believe an offence has occurred, please contact the Observe, Record and Report line at 1-800-465-4336 or email DFO.ORR-ONS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca.
As you are aware, the SFAB represents recreational fishing interests to the DFO on areas of concern to the recreational fishing community. I encourage you to continue to engage with the SFAB for further discussion of these issues.
Thank you for writing.
Yours sincerely,
Rebecca Reid
Regional Director General
Pacific Region
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where are the schedules, locations agenda of the SFAB meetings published. I didn't even know they were generally public.
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They are open to the public
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/smon/sfab-ccps/loc-south-sud-eng.html
The minutes and agenda use to be posted online but apparently they can only post them now online if they also translate then to French. So they don’t get posted anymore.
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does the Province do anything similar?
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does the Province do anything similar?
Apparently they have a group that meets but i do not have the information for that. Right now they are looking at shutting down sturgeon fishing during spawning and freshet. They had a rep from the provence at our meeting last time.
That being said if the local SFAC put together a motion to the provence about a local freshwater salmon/sturgeon/trout/steelhead issue I bet the provence would seriously consider it.
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Take the time to listen to Bob Hooten and he will tell us how the fishery is managed by FOC. https://globalnews.ca/bc/program/the-jill-bennett-show
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No the province doesn't have a similar group that is open to the public participation.
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No the province doesn't have a similar group that is open to the public participation.
Wildmanyeah is onto something. The province has a group that meets with stakeholders to discuss regulatory issues. I had chat with the guy at SFAB as he gave a brief presentation about proposed regulatory changes to the sturgeon fishery. He gave me the name and acronym of the group but I forget! I have him my contact info to get on the mailing list.
So something similar’ish
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The group is called SCAAT.
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SCAAT... which is an acronym for?
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I just got some more info. SCAAT = South Coast Angling Advisory Team.
Public involvement is through the participation of invited NGO's.