Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wiseguy on November 14, 2019, 12:28:15 PM
-
Planning a trip to the Squamish at the end of the month.Been several yrs since I have fished the Squamish river for bull trout. Do the logging trucks still run during week days? Where would be a good place to start? Plan on using beads. What about spoons? Is there any campgrounds in the area? Any info is much appreciated.
-
There are campground at Ashlu bridge, and one campsite upper, and at eloha river bridge. But no service.
Logging truck are there, but not very often encounter them
Other than that, cannot comment online
-
Spoons would work. The one time I went (many years ago) I was swinging / spin-casting a silver spoon with a green stripe on it. One of those wide body spoons (not the Crocs). Caught a few bull trout on it, but what absolutely made my day was an unintended by-catch - a beautiful super chrome steelhead.
Couldn't believe it. I've never caught a steelhead before, and haven't caught one since that day. Caught it with the green spoon :D Most epic by-catch ever!
-
There are campground at Ashlu bridge, and one campsite upper, and at eloha river bridge. But no service.
Logging truck are there, but not very often encounter them
Other than that, cannot comment online
Nice! I don’t need power.
-
I was swinging / spin-casting a silver spoon with a green stripe on it. One of those wide body spoons (not the Crocs). Caught a few bull trout on it, but what absolutely made my day was an unintended by-catch - a beautiful super chrome steelhead.
Couldn't believe it. I've never caught a steelhead before, and haven't caught one since that day. Caught it with the green spoon :D Most epic by-catch ever!
Excellent.
-
Almost 500 views and only 2 offering info? Mmm, not a very good average.
-
It's one of those systems people don't like to talk about too much except during the pinkies.
I think by end of November the river would be pretty high and tough to fish effectively unless we get a big cold snap down lower elevation.
-
Maybe most people who have read this just don't really fish the Squamish. Interest has dropped in recent years for whatever reason. 15 years ago we used to fish it regularly. Upper Squamish River's catch and release fishery used to be great for coho salmon in the last two weeks of October and first two weeks of November. By late November it's pretty much done but the focus shifts to targeting trout and char with trout beads. It could be a poorer year since the return of chum salmon has been poor so far.
Looking forward to see your report when you return from the trip.
-
Thanx Rod for your response. Much appreciated. Will be targeting Bull trout. Hoping now the river will drop into shape after this heavy rainfall predicted.
-
Interest has dropped in recent years? You obviously have not been up here. This years fall fishing pressure has been slower but that is probably directly related to no fish. Chum are an unmitigated disaster. They are just not here. I have lived near this river and fished it for 35 years and I have never seen anything remotely this bad for chum. Just a ghost town. Coho are way poorer than recent years. Pinks were fair at best but the pressure on pinks was off the charts. Guides are all over this river system and it's always busy. The char get fished hard all fall and winter and steelhead are extremely poor. The mountains are pretty though and grizzly bears are on the upswing. I guess if you compare to the valley streams the pressure is not bad but then again there are not nearly as many fish.
-
Always busy now. Grizzly bears on the upswing. Interesting.
-
Always busy now. Grizzly bears on the upswing. Interesting.
I saw three guys carrying bear sprey today. But dare they spey an angry grizzly bear in short distance? I doubted
-
I saw three guys carrying bear sprey today. But dare they spey an angry grizzly bear in short distance? I doubted
I carry bear spray when on remote hikes but I've always doubted it'll do more than provide a reassuring feeling.
Effective range of bear spray: 5 - 10 feet (1.5 - 3 meters)
Top speed of grizzly bear: 35 mph (56 kph)
Time it takes for a grizzly at top speed to run 3 meters: 0.2 seconds (approx.)
Hopefully I encounter a slow-moving grizzly and not a charging one ;)
-
I saw three guys carrying bear sprey today. But dare they spey an angry grizzly bear in short distance? I doubted
How was the fishing?
-
Interest has dropped in recent years? You obviously have not been up here. This years fall fishing pressure has been slower but that is probably directly related to no fish. Chum are an unmitigated disaster. They are just not here. I have lived near this river and fished it for 35 years and I have never seen anything remotely this bad for chum. Just a ghost town. Coho are way poorer than recent years. Pinks were fair at best but the pressure on pinks was off the charts. Guides are all over this river system and it's always busy. The char get fished hard all fall and winter and steelhead are extremely poor. The mountains are pretty though and grizzly bears are on the upswing. I guess if you compare to the valley streams the pressure is not bad but then again there are not nearly as many fish.
Sorry B, I wasn't suggesting that angling pressure has declined. Just from my observations overall interest seems to have dropped, probably due to drop in catch success. I haven't fished it in almost ten years now.
So, if you were to prioritize, what would be your top five things on the to-do list to improve the current state of this system?
-
How was the fishing?
water level did not change much but colored up a lot. fishing is much slower than last weekend but had some decent action. Multi species on streamer.
-
water level did not change much but colored up a lot. fishing is much slower than last weekend but had some decent action. Multi species on streamer.
Thanx for the report.
-
My top 5 would be a bit subjective. Some would benefit fish more while others would benefit the angling experience. Here is what I would do:
1 - Develop a spawning escapement goal for both pinks and chums and implement it. Currently there is no target escapement, no estimate of current escapement nor any ideas of what the watershed should be able to support based on habitat.
2 - At present there are several groups as well as government, spending significant amounts of dollars to remove large river obstructions ( boulders ) preventing salmon access to the 40 + kilometers of habitat in the Elaho River. This is the best habitat in the whole watershed especially for chinook, coho and pinks. This habitat has recently been made accessible but with current salmon population sizes it's going to be a while before it's colonized in any significant way. What is needed is a fry stocking program to utilize this habitat until returning salmon can colonize it on there own. Coho stocking would see the most immediate return from this.
3 - The water ramping rates on the Cheakamus River downstream of the BC Hydro dam need to be totally changed as the flow changes are currently too rapid. Lots and lots of juvenile fish as well as adult pinks this fall were being killed by a too quick decrease in water flows. Groups are working on this but there seems to be lots of push back from BC Hydro on reducing the ramp rates. This is a major fish killer in the watershed. This also applies to the IPP projects on both the Ashlu and Mamquam River.
4 - There needs to be a significant revision of the amount of fishing guides on this watershed. It has gotten a little silly in the last few years with guides coming from as far away as Pemberton and Mission. Combine that with the amount of assistant guides and the pressure gets a little silly. A good example of that was a guiding company who will remain nameless, was bringing up full bus loads of people this summer to target pinks. There has to be some control on this.
5 - Currently there is a small pink salmon enhancement program on the Cheakamus ( 1. 6 million fry ) that will likely disappear next cycle due to reallocation of priorities by DFO. This program was one of the things that helped rebuild the pink population after the CN Rail Caustic Soda spill in the Cheakamus in 2005. This program must continue as it is a good tool to use to maintain a pink population after one of Squamish's major floods that were famous for. It would also serve as a excellent way to have a returning pink population that can be use to colonize the Elaho with pinks. In a cold and glacial system like the Squamish, pinks are a superb fish that provide essential nutrients for the watershed. Char and juvenile salmon are always fatter on a pink cycle.
So that is my top 5. There are other things that I would like to see happen but I know there extremely unlikely ( steelhead issues, Johnstone Straight mixed stock chum fishery ) so I would be happy if these got addressed. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
-
Excellent post! Thank you for this. You speak from experience from the sounds of it.
-
Excellent post! Thank you for this. You speak from experience from the sounds of it.
Yeah, you could say bkk knows his stuff ... well written B, hope some come to fruition!
-
At what water level is the Squamish fishable and which water gauge is the best to indicate fishing levels?There appears to be three gauges.
-
My top 5 would be a bit subjective. Some would benefit fish more while others would benefit the angling experience. Here is what I would do:
Thanks B. Those all seem to be achievable goals. Are 1, 2 and 5 just held back by financial constraints?
-
At what water level is the Squamish fishable and is which water gauge is the best to indicate fishing levels?There appears to be three gauges.
https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/real_time_e.html?stn=08GA022
-
At what water level is the Squamish fishable and which water gauge is the best to indicate fishing levels?There appears to be three gauges.
From my experience, most of the Squamish can be fishable all the way up to 4m based on the Brackendale gauge, with levels between 3-3.5m being ideal. Anything higher than 4.5 and you want to stay away from its banks.
-
From my experience, most of the Squamish can be fishable all the way up to 4m based on the Brackendale gauge, with levels between 3-3.5m being ideal. Anything higher than 4.5 and you want to stay away from its banks.
Thanx Milo! This is the info I was looking for.
-
Thanks B. Those all seem to be achievable goals. Are 1, 2 and 5 just held back by financial constraints?
was going to ask the same thing. wondering if there any of the groups excepting donations.
-
Thanks B. Those all seem to be achievable goals. Are 1, 2 and 5 just held back by financial constraints?
They are all to a degree. Point 1 seems to be just a lack of will. It would cost money and staff and really should be a responsibility of DFO Fish Management. You have to know what's there before you base fisheries on them. There also has to be a will to implement and work toward a plan when it has been completed.
Point 2. Currently there is enough money to make the habitat accessible and the work is presently underway. The holdup at present is the DFO Production Planning people who are favoring a more " let nature fill the void" camp. I'm confidant that next year at this time there will be a working plan in place to collect coho adults with subsequent fry output being released the following spring. A few people are pushing hard on this and it seems to be moving forward.
Point 5. This one is more in doubt. Money is an issue as well as staff time to do the collection. DFO staff who used to run this program have either retired or have been retasked to work with critically endangered Fraser River chinook stocks ( Seton Portage chinook). Seton chinook and Squamish pinks both have the same spawning timing and they can't be in both spots at the same time. While pinks are not a very expensive program to run there is still a cost for collection, spawning, egg picking and incubation husbandry. There might be a couple of options to secure funding and that will be looked at shortly. We will see but I'm hopefully that this is possible.
I'm sure the Squamish River Watershed Society would love to take your money especially if you have a couple of hundred thousand dollars you don't want. They would likely take less though as there are other funding sources.
-
anyone that would like to donate
https://www.squamishwatershed.com/donate.html
-
I made it out to the Squamish river this past week. The river dropped fast and the water clarity and rd conditions improved each day I was there. You can camp at the first bridge where there is a nice run above the bridge. Saw a few spawning chum salmon in this run. Further up river there are pull outs where u can park to get away from the logging trucks working the valley. At these pull outs one can hike into some pretty sweet water that is meant to be fished. A few Bull trout came to hand on my fly rod. I did see other anglers along the way, but not even remotely close to the hordes of people on the Vedder. Did not spot any bears but I did see a herd of Elk which was so cool to see. A big river with spectacular mountain peaks to marvel at and a few fish to hand makes for good times. Can’t wait to go back.
-
My top 5 would be a bit subjective. Some would benefit fish more while others would benefit the angling experience. Here is what I would do:
1 - Develop a spawning escapement goal for both pinks and chums and implement it. Currently there is no target escapement, no estimate of current escapement nor any ideas of what the watershed should be able to support based on habitat.
2 - At present there are several groups as well as government, spending significant amounts of dollars to remove large river obstructions ( boulders ) preventing salmon access to the 40 + kilometers of habitat in the Elaho River. This is the best habitat in the whole watershed especially for chinook, coho and pinks. This habitat has recently been made accessible but with current salmon population sizes it's going to be a while before it's colonized in any significant way. What is needed is a fry stocking program to utilize this habitat until returning salmon can colonize it on there own. Coho stocking would see the most immediate return from this.
3 - The water ramping rates on the Cheakamus River downstream of the BC Hydro dam need to be totally changed as the flow changes are currently too rapid. Lots and lots of juvenile fish as well as adult pinks this fall were being killed by a too quick decrease in water flows. Groups are working on this but there seems to be lots of push back from BC Hydro on reducing the ramp rates. This is a major fish killer in the watershed. This also applies to the IPP projects on both the Ashlu and Mamquam River.
4 - There needs to be a significant revision of the amount of fishing guides on this watershed. It has gotten a little silly in the last few years with guides coming from as far away as Pemberton and Mission. Combine that with the amount of assistant guides and the pressure gets a little silly. A good example of that was a guiding company who will remain nameless, was bringing up full bus loads of people this summer to target pinks. There has to be some control on this.
5 - Currently there is a small pink salmon enhancement program on the Cheakamus ( 1. 6 million fry ) that will likely disappear next cycle due to reallocation of priorities by DFO. This program was one of the things that helped rebuild the pink population after the CN Rail Caustic Soda spill in the Cheakamus in 2005. This program must continue as it is a good tool to use to maintain a pink population after one of Squamish's major floods that were famous for. It would also serve as a excellent way to have a returning pink population that can be use to colonize the Elaho with pinks. In a cold and glacial system like the Squamish, pinks are a superb fish that provide essential nutrients for the watershed. Char and juvenile salmon are always fatter on a pink cycle.
So that is my top 5. There are other things that I would like to see happen but I know there extremely unlikely ( steelhead issues, Johnstone Straight mixed stock chum fishery ) so I would be happy if these got addressed. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I would add that the number of pinnipeds on the river has also increased. Fishing the mouth of the Mamquam this year and often running to the spit from my place I’ll see several sea lions. This was not the case in the past and needs to be addressed.
-
I made it out to the Squamish river this past week. The river dropped fast and the water clarity and rd conditions improved each day I was there. You can camp at the first bridge where there is a nice run above the bridge. Saw a few spawning chum salmon in this run. Further up river there are pull outs where u can park to get away from the logging trucks working the valley. At these pull outs one can hike into some pretty sweet water that is meant to be fished. A few Bull trout came to hand on my fly rod. I did see other anglers along the way, but not even remotely close to the hordes of people on the Vedder. Did not spot any bears but I did see a herd of Elk which was so cool to see. A big river with spectacular mountain peaks to marvel at and a few fish to hand makes for good times. Can’t wait to go back.
Like!
It's very rewarding to do the research like you did, explore a new location, catch some fish fish amid some spectacualr scenery and think to your self "I made that happen!"
-
I made it out to the Squamish river this past week. The river dropped fast and the water clarity and rd conditions improved each day I was there. You can camp at the first bridge where there is a nice run above the bridge. Saw a few spawning chum salmon in this run. Further up river there are pull outs where u can park to get away from the logging trucks working the valley. At these pull outs one can hike into some pretty sweet water that is meant to be fished. A few Bull trout came to hand on my fly rod. I did see other anglers along the way, but not even remotely close to the hordes of people on the Vedder. Did not spot any bears but I did see a herd of Elk which was so cool to see. A big river with spectacular mountain peaks to marvel at and a few fish to hand makes for good times. Can’t wait to go back.
Great report Wiseguy.
Back to the earlier points addressed by B, which are very similar to what Dave and Buck were talking about when I toured the spawning channels with them a couple of weeks ago. How does the angling community push for these ideas so they become reality?
-
Great report Wiseguy.
Back to the earlier points addressed by B, which are very similar to what Dave and Buck were talking about when I toured the spawning channels with them a couple of weeks ago. How does the angling community push for these ideas so they become reality?
I believe the squamish SFAC has been working on these issues for a long time but I'm sure you know what is and is not possible though that process and that's seems to be absolutely nothing these days. I believe this all comes down to advocacy and how we leverage the 300k sports fishing license is hard as you know very few are willing to even show up to a meeting or buy a membership.
I sent B's list to their chair and he responded to me with:
"Some good points. There is no enumeration of Chum or Pink now that BC Hydro stopped doing the rotary screw trap. Tenderfoot is stocking the upper Elaho. 15,000 Chinook marked fed fry and smolts will be released into the Upper Elaho river each year. BC Hydro is huge problem which we're fighting but its a tough battle. Pink enhancement will continue, thanks to hatchery manager Jordan making it a priority."
-
Talked to hatchery manager Jordan today and he informed me that the pink program has now been canceled. The process only works if you have the people in fish management listening and for the most part that is not happening.
We have a couple of other avenues to explore and 2 years to get funding in place so it might not be final yet.
-
We have a couple of other avenues to explore and 2 years to get funding in place so it might not be final yet.
can the public donate to this or???
-
Too early yet to say. Will see how our sale pitch is received. I think it will be a while before we know but pressure will be applied.
-
Too early yet to say. Will see how our sale pitch is received. I think it will be a while before we know but pressure will be applied.
Hey hey bkk, just sitting here on 9 months off of work and saw your list. Good points, I've got some thoughts that may help out.
My top 5 would be a bit subjective. Some would benefit fish more while others would benefit the angling experience. Here is what I would do:
1 - Develop a spawning escapement goal for both pinks and chums and implement it.
Be careful what you wish for here. The methods that have traditionally been used to develop biological escapement goals tend to generate targets that are much lower than you would likely expect. In the case of the Squamish where data availability and quality is somewhere between little and none, there are new methods that Carrie Holt in DFO has been developing for generating WSP escapement benchmarks, but I still suspect they would be relatively low. And once there is a spawning escapement target, fishery managers, harvesters etc will all start to try to harvest every last fish above the target. For the level of harvest that comes from a sport fishery, I don't think the Squamish needs this intensive of a management framework. The single digit harvest rates that occur (likely very low single digits) on pink and chum are not biologically relevant unless their productivity falls off a cliff for cycles on end, and if that happens then stopping a few sporties won't make a difference anyways. Main point being, a formal escapement target will = seiners and gillentters licking their lips. Don't go that route, but let the sporties have some limited openings at 1 fish/day.
2 - At present there are several groups as well as government, spending significant amounts of dollars to remove large river obstructions ( boulders ) preventing salmon access to the 40 + kilometers of habitat in the Elaho River. This is the best habitat in the whole watershed especially for chinook, coho and pinks. This habitat has recently been made accessible but with current salmon population sizes it's going to be a while before it's colonized in any significant way. What is needed is a fry stocking program to utilize this habitat until returning salmon can colonize it on there own. Coho stocking would see the most immediate return from this.
I agree 100%. The current plan is far too small to make much of a difference. I've given my thoughts multiple times that putting yearling smolts up there is not a good plan, and that they should be pouring large numbers of fry for a cycle or two (Chinook and coho). 40 km of near vacant habitat is a perfect situation for this approach. Putting 15000 fish up there is simply pissing into the wind. Standard recolonization theory is to choose one or two appropriate donor populations, and hit it hard for a cycle or two then back off.
3 - The water ramping rates on the Cheakamus River downstream of the BC Hydro dam need to be totally changed as the flow changes are currently too rapid.
Local stakeholders did a good job making noise on this, as BCH heard the concerns loud and clear and they are scared of screwing up again.
4 - There needs to be a significant revision of the amount of fishing guides on this watershed. It has gotten a little silly in the last few years with guides coming from as far away as Pemberton and Mission. Combine that with the amount of assistant guides and the pressure gets a little silly. A good example of that was a guiding company who will remain nameless, was bringing up full bus loads of people this summer to target pinks. There has to be some control on this.
Hmmm, I don't think I'll be popular on this one, but this sounds like NIMBYism. If the guides are legal and above board, not sure how this can be dealt with nor why it should be. Manage impact through total harvest (catch limits, open dates, open areas), the rest will sort itself out.
5 - Currently there is a small pink salmon enhancement program on the Cheakamus ( 1. 6 million fry ) that will likely disappear next cycle due to reallocation of priorities by DFO.
There's no reason this should fall off the table due to reallocation. Outside groups should not be putting money towards this, there is way more than enough money in DFO to deal with this. A little creativity needs to be used but in my opinion this is not a hard one to figure out.
And that is what I would do if I had a job in DFO.
-
;)
-
I was recently up in Pemberton and wanting to book a guide to show me a few spots on the Upper Lillooet. The local tackle store there told me all their guides were on the Squamish! Lol