Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on November 04, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
-
There are now fewer steelhead trout in the Thompson River system than there are letters in this sentence.
https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/news/steelhead-numbers-at-yet-another-all-time-low-1.23994055
-
very sad to read. as someone who's a passionate steelheader it saddens me that this strain might not make it. never had a chance to catch one but by all of the stories i hear from old timers of how large they were and how well they fought. such a loss.
i am sure im going to get some hate for this but at what point is it worth harvesting whats left for their genetics to maybe set up a hatchery program. kind of seems like a waste to let the genes disappear. from a few of the reports that i have read the scientist dont think their's enough left to have enough genetic diversity to survive. i have read alot that states that hatchery hurt wild fish but at this point their is going to be no wild fish left. i know their are a few people on this site that might be able to elaborate on why this wont work.
-
Another good read https://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1764#more-1764
-
very sad to read. as someone who's a passionate steelheader it saddens me that this strain might not make it. never had a chance to catch one but by all of the stories i hear from old timers of how large they were and how well they fought. such a loss.
i am sure im going to get some hate for this but at what point is it worth harvesting whats left for their genetics to maybe set up a hatchery program. kind of seems like a waste to let the genes disappear. from a few of the reports that i have read the scientist dont think their's enough left to have enough genetic diversity to survive. i have read alot that states that hatchery hurt wild fish but at this point their is going to be no wild fish left. i know their are a few people on this site that might be able to elaborate on why this wont work.
I think that's the best option, with the closure of gill net fisheries nowhere in sight it's obvious we're just going to watch this run collapse infront of our eyes. Saving the genes and maybe boosting the populations several folds then letting nature take its course has worked in the past, just look at the Squamish trib.
-
There was a living gene program for some of the Island streams but that was cancelled. Truth is the Province hasn't done much to save IFS and it's inaction has contributed to the Federal lack of interest.. I doubt they have money for such a program At least this year the gillnet activity was minimal during the prime migration period.
There is also the thought that the resident trout in the Thompson are genetically the same fish as IFS. All the fish carry the anadromous gene and it only trips for some small % of fish. I don't think it has been confirmed but if it is so, the trout are a living gene bank.
-
what would a program like this cost? not looking for exacts but rough idea. im sure their are alot of people on the side lines that might donate so such a cause. i know i would.
-
I find it a bit disturbing that people and the press are more concerned about saving and reporting on a otter eating koi in a pond than the state of the salmon and steelhead . I am sure if the press reported more on the true state of the Fraser fisheries with what the true outcome is going to be if they don't stop the gill nets maybe more of the average person might start to show interest in the Steelhead and salmon . I guess the question is how to actually get the press involved .
-
I find it a bit disturbing that people and the press are more concerned about saving and reporting on a otter eating koi in a pond than the state of the salmon and steelhead . I am sure if the press reported more on the true state of the Fraser fisheries with what the true outcome is going to be if they don't stop the gill nets maybe more of the average person might start to show interest in the Steelhead and salmon . I guess the question is how to actually get the press involved .
They only care about things that happen in the city. Its the Urban/Rural Divide
-
They only care about things that happen in the city. Its the Urban/Rural Divide
I'd like to point out that the two links provided above are news stories. Here's a few more;
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/hurtling-towards-extinction-b-c-steelhead-returns-critically-low-according-to-new-report-1.4393459
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/salmon-or-trout-what-the-heck-is-a-steelhead-anyway-1.4461827
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/endangered-rivers-report-1.4596211
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/emergency-assessment-launched-for-b-c-s-steelhead-1.4447766
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/extremely-close-to-being-gone-forever-b-c-fisheries-manager-says-feds-failing-interior-steelhead-1.4388170
-
"The City", as opposed to the Wilderness of Maple Ridge
(https://postmediavancouversun2.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/1019_homes_era-w.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=826&h=619&crop=1&zoom=2)
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4466739.1514494707!/fileImage/httpImage/image.PNG_gen/derivatives/original_780/anitaplacefire.PNG)
-
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=559473368204835
-
Well spoken speech, you think that the feds and province would do something collectively.
But bureaucratic wrangling trumps common sense
-
Well spoken speech, you think that the feds and province would do something collectively.
But bureaucratic wrangling trumps common sense
Conservation is bad for business
Decisions not to add the Steelhead Trout populations to the List of Wildlife Species at Risk
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/species-risk-public-registry/related-information/decisions-steelhead-trout-populations.html
Socio-economic considerations
Listing Chilcotin and Thompson River Steelhead as endangered under SARA would result in significant and immediate negative socio-economic impacts on Canadians due to the application of the general prohibitions. The incremental costs associated with listing were estimated to range from $190,300,000 to $254,000,000 (present value) over a 20 year period, or $17,900,000 to $24,000,000 per year in impacts on harvesters, recreational anglers, Indigenous groups, the seafood industry and the recreational services industry. The loss in profits to the commercial salmon fisheries, Indigenous commercial fisheries and seafood processing was estimated to be $90,700,000 over 20 years. The loss in profits to the recreational services sector (lodges, charters and guides) was estimated to be $16,200,000 over the same period. In addition, as a consequence of the prohibitions, anglers were anticipated to experience a loss in consumer surplus that reflects a loss in the benefits that anglers obtain from the activity that goes beyond the market value of the expenditures that they incur. The losses in consumer surplus to anglers were estimated to be $66,300,000 to $123,200,000 over 20 years, with the majority of the consumer surplus loss being borne by tidal recreational anglers. Indigenous groups would also be affected due to loss of harvest for food consumption, and for cultural and ceremonial purposes. If a foregone harvest for food purposes is compared to the cost of replacing this food source, the value is estimated to be in the range of approximately $17,100,000 to $23,900,000 over 20 years, which represents a conservative estimate. Although not quantifiable in economic metrics, it is acknowledged that there is value associated with salmon to Indigenous groups for cultural and ceremonial purposes.
Consultations
"Feedback received from consultations was mixed. The concerns that were expressed related to the emergency listing timeline and consultations, current conservation measures, expected fishery impacts and the uncertainty of benefits if listed. Environmental organizations and Indigenous groups located in the interior and in the headwater areas of the Chilcotin and Thompson Rivers were generally supportive of listing. Indigenous groups located along the Fraser River mainstem and in South Coast communities and commercial salmon fishing representatives were generally opposed, while recreational fishing representatives were divided. The Province of British Columbia has not provided an official position on listing; they have, however, indicated concerns with the expected impacts associated with listing.
Two of the three Indigenous groups that are party to a relevant treaty were opposed to listing, while the third indicated concerns with the fisheries implications of listing (e.g., impacts on Treaty fishing rights, First Nations businesses that rely on the recreational salmon fishery and commercial salmon fishers), but did not provide a clear position. Many other First Nations and Indigenous organizations did not provide a position on listing itself but cited potential infringement of Aboriginal rights and inadequate science information and consultation."
-
Thanks WMY. So they think that an endangered listing would have required that they substantially curtail TIDAL angling? I don't follow their logic on this one.
-
Thanks WMY. So they think that an endangered listing would have required that they substantially curtail TIDAL angling? I don't follow their logic on this one.
The way Sara language is worded when you list a species its illegal to engage in any activity that would harm the listed animal.
It's technically possible to catch a steelhead in the ocean but it is very rare but that does not matter as the possibility is their.
So yeah the SARA team recommended closing down the ocean basically for 60 days.
-
The way Sara language is worded when you list a species its illegal to engage in any activity that would harm the listed animal.
It's technically possible to catch a steelhead in the ocean but it is very rare but that does not matter as the possibility is their.
So yeah the SARA team recommended closing down the ocean basically for 60 days.
Or more likely they would be unable to withstand the politics of not shutting down the ocean fisheries if the FN fisheries are shut down in the river - we saw that this summer with the chinook closures.
-
very sad to read. as someone who's a passionate steelheader it saddens me that this strain might not make it. never had a chance to catch one but by all of the stories i hear from old timers of how large they were and how well they fought. such a loss.
i am sure im going to get some hate for this but at what point is it worth harvesting whats left for their genetics to maybe set up a hatchery program. kind of seems like a waste to let the genes disappear. from a few of the reports that i have read the scientist dont think their's enough left to have enough genetic diversity to survive. i have read alot that states that hatchery hurt wild fish but at this point their is going to be no wild fish left. i know their are a few people on this site that might be able to elaborate on why this wont work.
Great idea in theory, but in reality it will make no difference, no hatchery program has ever been documented to improve wild stocks. The very opposite has been found. You cant replace a wild run with an artificial run and have the same fish. You can pump out hatchery fish but they will no longer be the "Thompson steelhead" that everyone is so sad to see vanish. Hatcheries are becoming less and less effective as time goes on. Both wild and Hatchery fish are not returning in the numbers expected, this problem is only getting worse every year. The real crisis will happen when we hit a point where the hatchery contribution fish dont come back just like the wild components. With poor ocean survival, commercial harvest, FSN fisheries and sport fishing moralities, its just one big crap shoot. The best thing for all Salmonids is to leave them alone for the next 5 to 10 years and let them recover on their own. This is not a possibility in today`s world so we are seeing a great collapse of all the rivers and streams in BC.
-
Great idea in theory, but in reality it will make no difference, no hatchery program has ever been documented to improve wild stocks. The very opposite has been found. You cant replace a wild run with an artificial run and have the same fish. You can pump out hatchery fish but they will no longer be the "Thompson steelhead" that everyone is so sad to see vanish. Hatcheries are becoming less and less effective as time goes on. Both wild and Hatchery fish are not returning in the numbers expected, this problem is only getting worse every year. The real crisis will happen when we hit a point where the hatchery contribution fish dont come back just like the wild components. With poor ocean survival, commercial harvest, FSN fisheries and sport fishing moralities, its just one big crap shoot. The best thing for all Salmonids is to leave them alone for the next 5 to 10 years and let them recover on their own. This is not a possibility in today`s world so we are seeing a great collapse of all the rivers and streams in BC.
With such a low population is it safe to say the gene pool wint be as diverse? Thus causing damage ?
-
I think genetic bottle necking is a concern.