Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on October 24, 2019, 08:23:08 PM

Title: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on October 24, 2019, 08:23:08 PM
I filmed this a few days ago while on a deer hunting trip. Quality is not that good as I shot it without a tripod. More pictures on my FB page too.https://youtu.be/XzzteCPkq8c
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Dave on October 25, 2019, 08:40:36 AM
DFO Communications has been sparse in recent updates and numbers reaching the spawning grounds. Thankfully some field staff have been more helpful and some numbers are coming out; Chilko had app 165k, total Quesnel stocks (Horsefly and Mitchell) app. 20k. No word yet on smaller stocks like Nadina, Late Stuart and Stellako but it's safe to bet they are minimal.

Chinook numbers as, expected are very poor, with systems like the Goat and Torpy having no spawners counted and other rivers having "handfuls."
This winter will be critical in assessing and repairing this problem.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: avid angler on October 29, 2019, 05:20:25 PM
Man what a disaster. I sure hope there’s enough time to construct a permanent fishway before next freshet.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on October 29, 2019, 06:16:41 PM
from the video Chris took, it look as if the rock structures placed to enable fish passage have been mostly moved out of place. The river is quite high for this time of year so I guess there's been a lot of rain in the middle and upper sections.  They will have to put fish ladders in place. A permanent fish way or remediation of the rock structure will likely have to follow. I think a long term fix will take years.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on October 29, 2019, 10:27:47 PM
Dynamite.

Easy peezy
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on November 29, 2019, 05:52:40 PM
Filmed Dean Werk president of the Fraser Valley Salmon Society after he did a news story with CBC Vancouver at Island 22. It should air tonight at 6.https://www.facebook.com/chris.gadsden.7/videos/10159210260959056/
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: dave c on November 29, 2019, 07:19:53 PM
Dynamite.

Easy peezy
This was my first thought when i first heard about this. Dynamite is frequently used to clear ice jams. Why wouldn't it work here
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on November 29, 2019, 07:26:55 PM
The cBC story on the slide. November 29, 2019


https://www.facebook.com/chris.gadsden.7/videos/10159210786834056/
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sugartooth on November 29, 2019, 07:49:03 PM
This was my first thought when i first heard about this. Dynamite is frequently used to clear ice jams. Why wouldn't it work here

And who’s gonna drill a hole in the rock which is under water and place the dynamite into it? 
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: TacoChris on November 29, 2019, 08:12:42 PM
Looks like they are waiting for low winter water flow to do blasting.

BIG BAR LANDSLIDE UPDATE
NOVEMBER 6, 2019
Incident Webpage BC River Forecast
Big Bar Slide Response Enters Second Phase
Fisheries and Oceans Canada was notified of a landslide near Big Bar, British Columbia on June 23, and investigated this remote area of the Fraser River on June 25. The Big Bar Incident Command System (ICS) and Incident Command Post (ICP) were established on June 29 in Lillooet, BC with experts and response specialists from the Government of Canada, the Province of British Columbia and First Nations to respond to this emergency situation.
Phase 1 of the Operation, from July through September 2019, successfully achieved the identified short-term objectives, ensuring the safety of personnel and the public and moving salmon past the slide by whatever means possible. Trap and transfer, plus the partial re-establishment of natural fish passage through a combination of rock manipulation and lower water levels as of the second week of September, resulted in thousands of salmon migrating above the slide site.
Through the month of October 2019, the government-to-government-to-government (3G) response to the Big Bar Landslide fully transitioned from the Emergency response ICS organization, to an ongoing Project Response. Construction site preparation work adjacent to the slide area and on the west and east banks concluded mid-October. Water velocity and levels, plus rock stability and security at the site, are still being actively monitored, however. Currently there is minimal on-site activity while the urgent project planning for winter construction work takes place off-site.
While the majority of the 2019 Fraser salmon migration has now concluded, continued sustained efforts will be required in the short and long-term, possibly even into years ahead, to reduce the impact of the landslide on future salmon stocks. Work is also ongoing to finalize the scientific evaluation of the success of the measures taken during the emergency response and to identify lessons learned for future implementation. This is Phase 2 of the response.
The majority of winter construction is expected to happen prior to the spring freshet, while water levels are expected to be at their lowest. The freshet is anticipated to begin in March. This will bring increased water levels and velocity back to the slide area, making it difficult to safely continue any instream construction works.
We are fully aware of the high stakes involved. The Fraser River is one of the largest salmon producers in the world. More than 140 First Nations in BC are annually licensed to fish Fraser salmon for food, social and ceremonial purposes; Indigenous fishers also represent a significant portion of the commercial salmon fishery.
We are still waiting for the final results of our radio tagging and monitoring program related to the effectiveness of the fish transport system. However, we do know that some fish that were transported, particularly the earlier runs of salmon, had been holding downstream and exhausting themselves trying to get past the slide. Based on their condition and experience of observing stressed fish, we knew that fish moved would still be challenged to make it to their natal stream and successfully spawn. However, no action would have meant no early salmon
runs getting to their home stream (Spring and early Summer). Looking forward, expected returns of sockeye and chinook in four to five years is challenging to predict this early in the salmon’s life cycle.
In 2019, the trap and transport was initiated quickly under an emergency response order midway through the salmon migration season. Recognizing an urgency to prepare for next season, we are currently pursuing and planning to more effectively assist salmon migration in 2020, should this be required. On-going rock manipulation through winter construction will hopefully reduce or eliminate the trap and transport requirement.
A primary option to improve passage is the use of explosives, combined with the use of heavy equipment, to remove a large portion of the rock presently creating the fish barrier. During Phase 1, Incident Command received support from the US Army Corps of Engineers for its proposed engineering plans. Both the Departments of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces have also been engaged, and a number of experts in the use-of-explosives and heavy construction continue to be engaged as part of the current project planning process. An expert panel commissioned by the BC Premiers office and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Canada also reviewed the options being considered and provided endorsement to the approaches taken to date. As water levels and velocities continue to decrease to winter low flow levels, opportunities for additional underwater survey and visual observation of the rock debris in the River will assist in refining project plans. In addition, if a longer-term, more permanent solution, such as the construction of a fish passage structure, is deemed necessary after an intensive construction period this winter, the work accomplished and further data acquired next season will inform the feasibility studies to inform those decisions.
First Nations have been engaged from the outset of the Big Bar Landslide incident and remain an integral part of the planning, operations, and decision-making process. Direct First Nations involvement continues at the Joint Executive Steering Committee (JESC) and other levels, while the First Nations Leadership Panel guides the First Nations JESC representative. As the Incident Response moves into the next phase, First Nations involvement will occur at other levels as well. First Nations’ traditional ecological knowledge continues to inform operations, and First Nations specialists and personnel are expected to be part of the on-the-ground activities during winter 2019/2020 and beyond.
The government-to-government-to-government ICP established in Lillooet to oversee and support work in the field, as well as the Unified Command Structure that was implemented, was unique and at the heart of the initial phase of the response. To ensure continuity of direction, retain the deep knowledge gained during the emergency phase, and demonstrate the ongoing commitment to transparency and a robust 3G action team ― the Joint Executive Steering Committee (JESC) members, dedicated project leads and select environment and engineering specialists, will remain in place to lead this important next phase.
As we move into the very difficult winter construction and rock work phase, the Big Bar Landslide Project Response JESC will issue more information updates directly, and via the website, to report out on our actions going forward, and the outcomes of our post-mortem evaluations of the Big Bar Landslide emergency response operation.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on November 30, 2019, 07:06:39 AM
This was my first thought when i first heard about this. Dynamite is frequently used to clear ice jams. Why wouldn't it work here

well err, it's not ice it's rock?

clearing will likely involve more physical movement of rock than blasting. That will involve heavy equipment and take time.

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on November 30, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
Dean and I were back at Island 22 an the Fraser River this afternoon this time with reporter
Julia Foy from Global TV Vancouver.

Once again the topic was about the Big Bar slide on the Fraser River that blocked numerous runs of migrating sockeye and chinook salmon to their natal upstream of the slide. I imagine other fish stocks too.They asked me if I wanted to go on camera but I was happy to stay behind my own camera this time as Dean is far more knowledgeable than me on this file.

The story should run tonight on the 6 evening news.
I also will have 2 clips up that I filmed later.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: spoiler on November 30, 2019, 07:27:52 PM
As someone who has spent the last 43 years working in the heavy construction industry including some major rock blasting projects,
the solution seems very obvious. when looking upstream at the pinch point the rock formation on the right hand side has to be removed. Once the river level gets low enough they should get blasters in there to blow out that rock protrusion.
That will open up the pinch point and slow the water velocity enough to allow the salmon to pass safely.   
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on December 01, 2019, 06:56:23 AM
Dean and I were back at Island 22 an the Fraser River this afternoon this time with reporter
Julia Foy from Global TV Vancouver.

Once again the topic was about the Big Bar slide on the Fraser River that blocked numerous runs of migrating sockeye and chinook salmon to their natal upstream of the slide. I imagine other fish stocks too.They asked me if I wanted to go on camera but I was happy to stay behind my own camera this time as Dean is far more knowledgeable than me on this file.

The story should run tonight on the 6 evening news.
I also will have 2 clips up that I filmed later.
https://youtu.be/fF8-d1IO6jo
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 01, 2019, 01:03:12 PM
Federal RFI ,Tender & procurement request to clear the slide has been published:

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-PWY-025-8699
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on December 01, 2019, 05:55:50 PM
They should have let the private sector clear it in the first place. It would have been done on time and on budget. The thousands of fish that died because of the stress of being transported is shameful. It's time Salmon fisheries become a provincial issue and not a federal one.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 01, 2019, 06:10:17 PM
They should have let the private sector clear it in the first place. It would have been done on time and on budget. The thousands of fish that died because of the stress of being transported is shameful. It's time Salmon fisheries become a provincial issue and not a federal one.

that's what an RFI Public tender does...puts it out to the Private sector to propose how to do it and tell Procurement Canada what it will cost.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on December 02, 2019, 09:34:38 PM
https://www.theprogress.com/news/disastrous-2019-sportfishing-season-was-a-wakeup-call-says-salmon-society-rep/?fbclid=IwAR1xZEWiyJgjkwIQdkY3vWj0o1SodfUipDMlPveMo8b4igbBJjOILkfSRsE
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on December 03, 2019, 06:06:05 AM
that's what an RFI Public tender does...puts it out to the Private sector to propose how to do it and tell Procurement Canada what it will cost.

WOW REALLY ? I had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up for me Ralph. What would I ever do without you. I swear, life would be an endless struggle without you pointing out the obvious for all of us. I'm so ever grateful to have you hold my hand and guide me through the never ending darkness. Thank you !
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 03, 2019, 06:45:39 AM
WOW REALLY ? I had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up for me Ralph. What would I ever do without you. I swear, life would be an endless struggle without you pointing out the obvious for all of us. I'm so ever grateful to have you hold my hand and guide me through the never ending darkness. Thank you !

Sheesh.. and thanks for your endless list of tired cliches such as:

They should have let the private sector clear it in the first place. It would have been done on time and on budget. The thousands of fish that died because of the stress of being transported is shameful. It's time Salmon fisheries become a provincial issue and not a federal one.

the private sector was involved "in the first place".. you think DFO has rock scalers, demolition experts and helicopters sitting in government work years waiting for deployment in the advent of an emergency? Take a pill .
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on December 03, 2019, 08:31:39 AM
Sheesh.. and thanks for your endless list of tired cliches such as:

the private sector was involved "in the first place".. you think DFO has rock scalers, demolition experts and helicopters sitting in government work years waiting for deployment in the advent of an emergency? Take a pill .

I dont think they have those folks. I dont. All I'm saying is, it should be a provincial issue without any federal involvement at all. The province should have consulted with FN groups, the rec and commercial sector AS WELL as other industry experts across North America and fixed the problem at the start. THEN hand it all over to the private sector to do the work without any involvement. It's a provincial issue. The federal government in Ottawa should get out of BC issues when it comes to our resources. We manage the forestry sector, mining etc. If FN groups, rec and commercial in the province actually had their voices heard, our fisheries would be in a better state.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 03, 2019, 09:12:13 AM
you might wish to review the information on the Incident page of the BC Provincial Government Website:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/fish/fish-passage/big-bar-landslide-incident

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 03, 2019, 09:20:54 AM
No early stuart sockeye spawned successfully this year...

Let that sink in a bit.

I don't think the gravity and seriousness of this situation has been felt or reported properly yet.

or maybe only a select handful of people are left that actually care.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: santefe on December 03, 2019, 11:03:26 AM
Those pictures are impressive and give an idea if the magnitude of the work involved but unless one can actually be there to actually hear and see you can only imagine how big a job this actually is.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 03, 2019, 03:18:29 PM
I honestly think some spawned.. I imagine it is hard to be sure 100% of the return did not spawn?

Also this is something that likely happens now and again in nature. I doubt this is the first time there was a slide to block the Fraser and I doubt it will be the last time. Fish obviously have some mechanism to repopulate off years that were for one reason or another destroyed. Even 1 year early or 1 year late returning fish should slowly repopulate in the near future as the slide is cleared. Maybe strays even?

Im positive there is a mechanism to repopulate runs naturally as there has been river blocking rockslides plenty of times in history that eventually clear im sure.

Not that this helps the people who rely on these returns in the immidiate future

The science says less than 100 made it to the spawning grounds and of thoes that made it the chance of them spawning successfully is low.



Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Dave on December 03, 2019, 03:47:00 PM
The science says less than 100 made it to the spawning grounds and of thoes that made it the chance of them spawning successfully is low.
Latest ES numbers are estimated to be 89 fish, 43 females, 0 jacks.  Only 14 carcasses were recovered so % successfully spawned is unknown but being as these were extremely stressed fish, gamete viability is expected to be poor.
Of the 17 ES females spawned at the Cultus Lake lab, 20k eggs remain. I have no doubt other early and mid summer sockeye stocks on this cycle are in just as serious a problem.
Fisheries regulations and in river FN FSC management will be worth watching 4 years from now.


Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: TNAngler on December 04, 2019, 07:45:00 AM
I honestly think some spawned.. I imagine it is hard to be sure 100% of the return did not spawn?

Also this is something that likely happens now and again in nature. I doubt this is the first time there was a slide to block the Fraser and I doubt it will be the last time. Fish obviously have some mechanism to repopulate off years that were for one reason or another destroyed. Even 1 year early or 1 year late returning fish should slowly repopulate in the near future as the slide is cleared. Maybe strays even?

Im positive there is a mechanism to repopulate runs naturally as there has been river blocking rockslides plenty of times in history that eventually clear im sure.

Not that this helps the people who rely on these returns in the immidiate future

Agree except I would guess most of those happened when there were plenty of fish every year and so the number of off cycle fish was significant.  Now, the number of on cycle fish isn't always significant which means fewer off cycle.  It might be too much this time.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 05, 2019, 08:44:21 AM
Latest ES numbers are estimated to be 89 fish, 43 females, 0 jacks.  Only 14 carcasses were recovered so % successfully spawned is unknown but being as these were extremely stressed fish, gamete viability is expected to be poor.
Of the 17 ES females spawned at the Cultus Lake lab, 20k eggs remain. I have no doubt other early and mid summer sockeye stocks on this cycle are in just as serious a problem.
Fisheries regulations and in river FN FSC management will be worth watching 4 years from now.

it's worth considering those numbers in light of the recorded escapement past Mission of 26,000.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 05, 2019, 09:41:36 AM
I doubt will see the Fraser River open to sports fishing before August for the rest of our lives.  Like Rod said to me a few years ago its time to focus on lake fishing and enjoy those opportunities.  Wise words considering what has transpired since then.

FSC opportunities will be shifted from Early runs to mid and late runs, we seen it this year. Sports fishing cant take place until FSC does.  The pressure from illegal fishing in early runs will keep them rebuilding to a state where commercial and rec opportunities will be allowed. 

Even in areas where we have completely removed fishing exploitation salmon are still failing to replace themselves.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on December 05, 2019, 10:32:55 AM
The complete interview I filmed with Dean Werk and the CBC National news on Monday. I noticed the story did not run last night so we will check tonight.



https://www.facebook.com/chris.gadsden.7/videos/10159229228309056/
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 05, 2019, 11:09:22 AM
The complete interview I filmed with Dean Werk and the CBC National news on Monday. I noticed the story did not run last night so we will check tonight.



https://www.facebook.com/chris.gadsden.7/videos/10159229228309056/

Looks like DFO gave an update pretty sad this may not even be fixed before next summer.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6257001/big-bar-landslide-phase-2/
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/high-risk-threatened-salmon-species-won-t-be-fully-rescued-after-fraser-river-slide-dfo-1.4716595
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Wiseguy on December 06, 2019, 04:56:50 AM
    Imo the only openings we will see on the Fraser is the once in every 4 yr sockeye run. Not really fishing mind you, harvesting is what I would call it. Seems DFO is dragging their feet on getting this land slide blasted out by the private sector? I mean it took awhile before it was even discovered! How come they don’t do helicopter patrols to observe the river? Our once mighty Salmon runs are starting to look like the East Cod fishery... :'(
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 06, 2019, 08:04:28 AM
I guess in any post mortem of the incident, some sort of inspection of the river has to be considered. GIS systems and satellite photography are new technologies that could make this more efficient and less expensive than direct inspection. The Province already does a lot of work in this regard. The experience is there. Identifying areas that are geologically at high risk would be required if that's not already available.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 06, 2019, 05:04:33 PM
Let the miners have a go at this. Take out the narrow part with open pit  style benches, which widens the river allowing rocks to be removed.
It wouldn't take that long for the miners to drill and control blast that point that sticks out that is causing the problems.

Looking at photos the angles of the rock are parallel to slide direction so this rock unless resolved will go again. Scaling with crow bar is like using a teaspoon.

As for photography use a drone aircraft that will give a great view of the canyon areas. We use drones all the time planning our mining and exploration roads.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 07, 2019, 07:56:50 PM
Let the miners have a go at this. Take out the narrow part with open pit  style benches, which widens the river allowing rocks to be removed.
It wouldn't take that long for the miners to drill and control blast that point that sticks out that is causing the problems.

Looking at photos the angles of the rock are parallel to slide direction so this rock unless resolved will go again. Scaling with crow bar is like using a teaspoon.

interesting suggestions - hopefully they get considered

Quote
As for photography use a drone aircraft that will give a great view of the canyon areas. We use drones all the time planning our mining and exploration roads.

yup! There are other lower cost options than helicopter inspections.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 07, 2019, 08:08:54 PM
interesting suggestions - hopefully they get considered


The problem is time, I worked for a big earth moving company up north in a remote location. Need housing for workers, need to bring in gas. Just the Mob for this type of work takes months. That's not even considering the Engineering, feasibility, archaeology, approvals from first nations and authorities. Then there is the issue of the public awareness of this so much risk for a company to rush it.

I phoned into the public webex this week. It sounds like they are looking at technologies to just get fish past it in 2020 and then looking at possible long term solutions like hells gate to it in 2021 and beyond. 
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 08, 2019, 09:10:57 AM
Ah yes the red tape. That's the problem with any project today, takes 10X  longer to get permission than it does to do the actual work.

It would not take a big crew to move and mine the rock. 

Looking at the photographs, that's how to solve the problem The area is clearly not stable and the frost and that will eventually result in additional large blocks sliding into to the river.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/photos-show-big-bar-area-before-and-after-landslide-1.4510958 (https://bc.ctvnews.ca/photos-show-big-bar-area-before-and-after-landslide-1.4510958)

The side view of the slide (photo 2) shows the fabric of rock dipping into the river also note the color change in the rock near at bottom , that looks like a slide plane. Finally, in the very last photograph note the color change in vegetation in the point sticking out and how it connects to the fracture to the  left. Under the right conditions that entire block could go, blocking the river.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 08, 2019, 01:15:32 PM
Here is an updated presentation.

http://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Dec_2019_BigBarUpdate_trilatversion_Dec4Updated.pdf
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 08, 2019, 02:47:35 PM
Pressure on to move rocks the size of 'houses and cars' at Big Bar landslide


https://vancouversun.com/news/local...-size-of-houses-and-cars-at-big-bar-landslide
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Robert_G on December 08, 2019, 04:40:25 PM
Get some dynamite and just do it. Clean up the rocks and be done.
All the red tape BS is why government sucks. Talkers in suits accomplish nothing.
Blowing up some rocks in the middle of winter is not going to make things worse.
There are many professionals who know how dynamite works and how it doesn't. They know what their doing. Blow up the freaking rock slide and be done with it.

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on December 08, 2019, 04:49:54 PM
Back in the day before red tape was even invented something would have been done in a matter of months.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on December 09, 2019, 08:10:38 AM
I don't know when Red Tape was invented but it took over 30 years to get most of the problems from the 1913 Hell's Gate slide addressed. It still isn't as passable as it was before the slide. It took 5 years to make the Seymour River slide passable. Much the same with the Coquihalla.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: dobrolub on December 09, 2019, 08:32:55 AM
Saw an article on colonizing Mars the other day. Building bases on the Moon. Mind-boggling. We could do pretty much anything, except ... fix that damn slide!
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: clarki on December 09, 2019, 09:40:44 AM
I mean who wouldn’t want to see a Ripple Rock explosion in the canyon
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: milo on December 09, 2019, 09:59:47 AM
Kill off the wild salmon, dam the Fraser, and build more fish farms. That's the long term plan. >:(
It's my conspiracy theory and I'm sticking to it. How else can you explain the lack of meaningful action on something so important?

Sickening.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: fisherforever on December 09, 2019, 10:32:49 AM
To kill off the salmon and to dam the Fraser. That's the long term plan. >:(
It's my conspiracy theory and I'm sticking to it. How else can you explain the lack of meaningful action on something so important?

Sickening.
.   I’ve thought the same thing since the 90’s
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Rodney on December 09, 2019, 10:34:58 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 09, 2019, 11:03:15 AM
went through the updated presentation thanks by the way.

on page 21 of update is a photo of the scalers working on the rock face.
Note that it appears to be beneath a large over hang.

I wouldn't be working or scaling below that overhang, no miner ever would, too dangerous.

That block will come down sometime. The only way to work the block is from behind not in front.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: milo on December 09, 2019, 11:39:10 AM
::)

Roll your eyes all you want Rodney, but BIG BUSINESS has had their eyes on the Fraser for hydro purposes for almost a century now. Does Moran Dam ring a bell? It's been defeated so far, but the way greed is spreading, it wouldn't surprise me that one day we see it happen.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Robert_G on December 09, 2019, 01:27:21 PM
I don't know when Red Tape was invented but it took over 30 years to get most of the problems from the 1913 Hell's Gate slide addressed. It still isn't as passable as it was before the slide. It took 5 years to make the Seymour River slide passable. Much the same with the Coquihalla.

We've come along way since 1913....

Roll your eyes all you want Rodney, but BIG BUSINESS has had their eyes on the Fraser for hydro purposes for almost a century now. Does Moran Dam ring a bell? It's been defeated so far, but the way greed is spreading, it wouldn't surprise me that one day we see it happen.

Rod believes everything the men in suits tell him.

For crying out loud, the world must be coming to an end when I agree 100% with Milo.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 09, 2019, 01:45:02 PM
Ripple rock was easy compared to this because they could just blow up the rock to all sides and leave it their.

It’s not just enough to blow up the rock that’s creating the waterfall they also need to blow up the sides to widen it to slow down the velocity of water.

They need to blow up the rock and make it small enough that the river will take it away or blow it up in small enough chunks that it can be removed by equipment.

Seymour it took 5 years and they blew it up into small pieces each spring the water would take away some of the rock.

You could also tunnel though the rock and create a spliway to
Divert water but again dealing with the Fraser river here not a small project. I just seen in the news that for the Seymour slide that had to submit 126 page plan to WCB for approval. Can’t imagine that was fast to do.

Something needs to be done and it needs to be done fast

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: milo on December 09, 2019, 02:09:25 PM
For crying out loud, the world must be coming to an end when I agree 100% with Milo.

There's always a first for everything Robert.  ;D
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Spoonman on December 09, 2019, 07:05:19 PM
.....why can't they bring in the military?...dont we already pay them to blow stuff up?...the remote location screams airstrike....
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Hike_and_fish on December 09, 2019, 08:03:46 PM
.....why can't they bring in the military?...dont we already pay them to blow stuff up?...the remote location screams airstrike....

This is true. On the other hand, Trudeau would have to make up his mind and buy the damn jets already  the F35 ? The used F18's from Australia? The new super hornet from Boeing ? Or the F35 again. I have a better idea. Why doesnt he waste the 10's of millions of dollars already spent on the development of the F35 program by the Harper government and not have plans to buy anything........ oh wait. That already happened.the military is a joke. Not the members but the EXTREME lack of funding. This government is too concerned about handing 10's of millions of dollars to the Clinton foundation and buyouts to former terrorists. Get the military to blow it up ? I honestly cant think of a better joke than the thought of that.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 10, 2019, 07:47:00 AM
Actually it could be done by controlled blasting on benches moving the rock to the west away from the river.
Start with a cut/trench  at the back and then blast new rock into the hole and remove the rock in benches, repeat until down so jts above the river level.
Then blast the opening into the river bed removing the narrow area completely.
This is so simple for open pit miners.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 10, 2019, 08:46:32 AM
They also need to remove 75 thousand cubes of material that is under water

“In a request for information from the private sector that closed on Friday, the federal government said initial estimates show 75,000 cubic metres of material was deposited in the river and most of it is still there. The request sought construction and environmental remediation work to support the break up and removal of rock from the site of the slide during the first available low-water window between December and March.”
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 10, 2019, 12:35:09 PM
That could be accomplished in the last stage of stabilizing the point and widening the river as the flow would be spread out and the rock can easily be removed from the last bench with excavators.  Simply removing the rock would only be a temporary/band aid  measure as  the rest of the point is sure to collapse  in time. If one looks at the slope on the east side its a lot flatter than the west side. In addition the river has cut through the rock bedding plane, creating unstable planes like the one that created the slide. Its no use doing a 10% job only to have to return when the next slide occurs, which could be sooner than later given those overhangs visible in the picture. Use benches cut back the point then remove the rock from the river then slope the last bench to give a gentle drop in then river fore the fish to move through.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on December 10, 2019, 01:32:52 PM
That could be accomplished in the last stage of stabilizing the point and widening the river as the flow would be spread out and the rock can easily be removed from the last bench with excavators.  Simply removing the rock would only be a temporary/band aid  measure as  the rest of the point is sure to collapse  in time. If one looks at the slope on the east side its a lot flatter than the west side. In addition the river has cut through the rock bedding plane, creating unstable planes like the one that created the slide. Its no use doing a 10% job only to have to return when the next slide occurs, which could be sooner than later given those overhangs visible in the picture. Use benches cut back the point then remove the rock from the river then slope the last bench to give a gentle drop in then river fore the fish to move through.

If you know of a company that can do that in the next 60-90 days then you should of got them to apply or get into contact.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: glog on December 10, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
don't know of a specific company, but there is Teck's highland valley mine near by at Logan Lake,  that has all the equipment needed to do it.
They might be able to help. 
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: armytruck on December 11, 2019, 01:31:14 PM
That could be accomplished in the last stage of stabilizing the point and widening the river as the flow would be spread out and the rock can easily be removed from the last bench with excavators.  Simply removing the rock would only be a temporary/band aid  measure as  the rest of the point is sure to collapse  in time. If one looks at the slope on the east side its a lot flatter than the west side. In addition the river has cut through the rock bedding plane, creating unstable planes like the one that created the slide. Its no use doing a 10% job only to have to return when the next slide occurs, which could be sooner than later given those overhangs visible in the picture. Use benches cut back the point then remove the rock from the river then slope the last bench to give a gentle drop in then river fore the fish to move through.








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KskBRHAlmDg
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sumasriver on December 11, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
Looks like some great float ripping quality coho water similar to upper Chilliwack during coho season......  Don't even need roe... Just a corky and wool of any color will work.  A short cast and rip.
Bit of a hike out with your fish though.....

(https://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.4510963!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sumasriver on December 11, 2019, 03:26:26 PM
Looks like some great float ripping quality coho water similar to  Tamihi  during coho season......  Don't even need roe... Just a corky and wool of any color will work.  A short cast and rip.
Bit of a hike out with your fish though.....

(https://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.4510963!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: firstlight on December 17, 2019, 07:18:07 AM
This whole thing is a farce.
Both Provincial and Federal Ministers of Environment should resign.
Joke of the century.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: avid angler on December 17, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
Are you saying it’s a farse that it’s not being dealt with or that the fish aren’t being stopped by the barrier?
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: IronNoggin on January 06, 2020, 10:24:27 AM
Email from a Buddy:

Received this last night.

The Premier’s office organized a technical briefing late last year.

Essentially, about 275,000 fish made it past the slide, mainly by natural passage, with some 60,000 being transported, most of which were unlikely to spawn.

Early Stuart sockeye (<100 spawners out of 21,000), mid and Upper Fraser spring 1.3 chinook are at grave risk of extinction. Early summer and summer sockeye and mid-Fraser 1.3 summer chinook are at “considerable” risk of extinction. The slide is expected to prevent passage for most of the 2020 migration season.

The site is very remote (the slide went unnoticed for more than six months) requiring crews to scale the rock face for access and some 110,000 cubic metres of debris under the surface.

The goal of the Joint Command (DFO, FLNRO and FN) is to restore sustained natural passage. It has taken extensive advice from the Armed Forces, US Army Corps of Engineers, Rio Tinto and other mining and construction companies. Remediation work risks further slides.

With water flow dropping recently to under 600 cubic metres per second, the federal government has just contracted Peter Kiewit Sons ULC to remove rock and debris between now and March before spring freshet makes further operations impossible.

Some limited strategic enhancement took place in 2019 and is under consideration for 2020.

The consequences for all South Coast fisheries are likely to be severe.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
Jaysus ...

"The slide is expected to prevent passage for most of the 2020 migration season."
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2020, 12:41:16 PM
Here is some information on the company contracted for this job ... pretty impressive resume.  Hope they get'er done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiewit_Corporation

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: clarki on January 06, 2020, 04:01:48 PM
Here is some information on the company contracted for this job ... pretty impressive resume.  Hope they get'er done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiewit_Corporation

I bet it's a sizeable contract too.

But let's hope they have improved their safety practices https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kiewit-criminal-negligence-government-no-comment-1.5160996

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: wildmanyeah on January 06, 2020, 04:07:23 PM
I bet it's a sizeable contract too.

But let's hope they have improved their safety practices https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kiewit-criminal-negligence-government-no-comment-1.5160996

Only huge international companies were capable of doing the work required all of them have demons.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: psd1179 on January 06, 2020, 04:57:54 PM
Only huge international companies were capable of doing the work required all of them have demons.

Make millions dollar by digging dirt. It must be a good contract
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: bobby b on January 06, 2020, 06:53:10 PM
Looks like some great float ripping quality coho water similar to upper Chilliwack during coho season......  Don't even need roe... Just a corky and wool of any color will work.  A short cast and rip.
Bit of a hike out with your fish though.....

(https://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.4510963!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg)

What an asinine post.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sumasriver on January 06, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
What an asinine post.

Really..... well i have seen snaggers / dippers fishing similar water on the upper CV with high water....
Ripping on each short cast.   It is time to shut down some more water on the upper CV and let the steel do their thing.  Habitat restoration is what we need to talking about as well.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: avid angler on January 06, 2020, 10:46:14 PM
To compare a tragedy of this measure to pocket flossers in the vedder is idiotic. Snagging steelhead in high water rapids? Yeah right good luck lol. Posts like yours are the reason real issues don’t get dealt with and why our salmon fisheries are on their last leg
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sumasriver on January 07, 2020, 12:43:18 PM
To compare a tragedy of this measure to pocket flossers in the vedder is idiotic. Snagging steelhead in high water rapids? Yeah right good luck lol. Posts like yours are the reason real issues don’t get dealt with and why our salmon fisheries are on their last leg



Don't really think rec fishing has had that much of an impact TBH but with record low SH returns... it may be time to rethink sport fishing opportunites for the SH.  Fly only or shutting down the river for a period of time mid season ? 

But shutting down more of the upper river could be a useful strategy and/or more habitat restoration to increase quality spawning locations.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: avid angler on January 07, 2020, 04:48:17 PM
Are you drunk? This is the big bar slide update thread. What does anything you just wrote have to do with that?
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: IronNoggin on January 14, 2020, 10:55:40 AM
Contract awarded for crucial winter work to restore slide-impacted Fraser River

https://globalnews.ca/news/6405500/contract-awarded-restoration-work-fraser-river/
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: sumasriver on January 14, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
PK and Sons has more earth moving equipment than any company in North America....
Even more than the USA military.

Logical choice for the contract.   Lets the pro's do their thing.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: stsfisher on January 15, 2020, 02:03:15 PM
Let's hope permits and red tape don,t delay a start this winter........
Big company with high safety standards, may be a slow process to have everything in order properly for a quick start.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: IronNoggin on January 28, 2020, 10:43:40 AM
Noting that the cold weather has hampered the efforts to deal with the slide, the new Fisheries Minister could not miss an opportunity to put a positive spin on the matter:

"It's just such an inaccessible area and it's been a gargantuan effort between the federal government the provincial government and First Nations," Donaldson said. "The relationships built between those three levels of government has been amazing."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/big-bar-landslide-winter-1.5440377

Unfortunately if those words were true, we would be one hell of a lot further along in dealing with the matter...

Nog
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Cyanescens on January 28, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
that quote isnt from the new fisheries minister
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on January 28, 2020, 02:45:36 PM
that quote isnt from the new fisheries minister
LOL! It's from Doug Donaldson, BC's Minister of Forests et al.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: clarki on January 28, 2020, 02:50:05 PM
C'mon, Ironnoggin doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

"Unfortunately if those words were true..." is a little ironic :) 
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Fish Assassin on January 28, 2020, 03:47:50 PM
Noting that the cold weather has hampered the efforts to deal with the slide, the new Fisheries Minister could not miss an opportunity to put a positive spin on the matter:

"It's just such an inaccessible area and it's been a gargantuan effort between the federal government the provincial government and First Nations," Donaldson said. "The relationships built between those three levels of government has been amazing."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/big-bar-landslide-winter-1.5440377

Unfortunately if those words were true, we would be one hell of a lot further along in dealing with the matter...

Nog

Typical Nog. Couldn't resist an opportunity to put a negative spin. Perhaps he should read the article before spouting off.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on February 11, 2020, 01:19:41 PM
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/opinion/along-the-fraser-lessons-must-be-learned-from-big-bar-landslide/
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Robert_G on April 01, 2020, 02:15:12 PM
Any news from good sources? Spring freshet is less than a month away.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Dave on April 01, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Last I head they were still working on it.  Nothing really new, just suggesting all repairs may not be complete before the freshet.  Staying cold in the interior should delay snow melt, giving some more time.
I will be very interested in the amount of FN fishing happening soon, hopefully their leaders will have convinced them to stay off the river.  It's really up to them if these early run chinooks will survive.

Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: avid angler on April 01, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
Last I head they were still working on it.  Nothing really new, just suggesting all repairs may not be complete before the freshet.  Staying cold in the interior should delay snow melt, giving some more time.
I will be very interested in the amount of FN fishing happening soon, hopefully their leaders will have convinced them to stay off the river.  It's really up to them if these early run chinooks will survive.

If that’s what we are relying on those Chinook are doomed
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: Robert_G on April 01, 2020, 03:08:05 PM
Staying cold in the interior should delay snow melt, giving some more time.

They got lucky with that. It's freezing up there keeping the river really low. Some years, the water would already be too high for what they are doing.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: RalphH on April 01, 2020, 04:46:34 PM

https://cfjctoday.com/2020/03/26/more-blasting-planned-at-big-bar-landslide-site-as-river-levels-remain-low/



Quote
“Although Kiewit has been successful in meeting the winter work objectives, removing large boulders and debris, recent modeling done at low water shows that a mass of slide debris situated elsewhere in the river will cause heavy flows at high water, stopping fish passage,” DFO says in a release.

Meanwhile, a team of experts is already developing a contingency plan to move fish during high water when passage won’t be possible.

“The plans include constructing a ‘nature-like’ fishway, installing a pneumatic fish lift system, and developing a trap and transport option to collect salmon below the slide and release them up river,” the department notes.
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: bigblockfox on April 01, 2020, 05:30:09 PM
good to hear they are still working despite the conditions
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: arimaBOATER on May 22, 2020, 02:19:39 AM
PK and Sons has more earth moving equipment than any company in North America....
Even more than the USA military.

Logical choice for the contract.   Lets the pro's do their thing.
No one has commented ....on what's happening?
Anyone know ?
Title: Re: Big Bar Slide Update
Post by: chris gadsden on May 22, 2020, 10:15:56 AM
No one has commented ....on what's happening?
Anyone know ?
You should find what you want here. https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pacific-smon-pacifique/big-bar-landslide-eboulement/index-eng.html