Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on August 26, 2019, 07:10:40 PM
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The Fraser Valley Salmon Society is putting this all together for Labour Day Monday September 2 at Island 22. This will be out on one of the bars. At the present time a press release is being put together that will give all the details. We hope to have a corn roast and some other goodies too.
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Sounds very interesting!
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Did you ask permission from the pertinent
First Nations? Seems only right if your gonna be on their traditional fishing grounds?
Better yet is their a way to include them?
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Did you ask permission from the pertinent
First Nations? Seems only right if your gonna be on their traditional fishing grounds?
Better yet is their a way to include them?
I ask permission everytime I fish the Harrion. I make sure to kiss the hand of the chief before I take my boat out. Even at the beginning of every Mission Chamber meeting we make sure to bless the local tribe. After all, we are ALL on their traditional territory one way or another. We're just evil children of colonists.
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I'll look for the press release for more information, but in the meantime, what is a pikeminnow demonstration fishery? Will this be a catch and release fishery, or catch and kill?
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can you make it clear what this is as ive now seen people speculating on social media.
Is this an actually pikeminnow derby or is it a bar fishery pink and chinook protest fishery.
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Press release is just done and is being circulated first to media and we will get it up here ASAP.
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For now we will be meeting at Island 22 boat launch at 9:30 when all details how the event will run.
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Fraser Valley Salmon Society
We will be gathering at the Island 22 boat launch at 9:30 AM to receive instructions from Dean Werk how the fishery will proceed. Make sure you bring your own boat and gear to be fishing for coarse fish only, bring your family as it is a great fishery for children too. Coffee and donuts will be provided.
Coarse Fish Demonstration September 2nd 2019
The press release
The Fraser Valley Salmon Society is holding a coarse fish demonstration fishery on Monday, September 2 at Island 22 in Chilliwack. The demonstration fishery will begin at 10 a.m. and conclude at 1:00 p.m. The species being fished for include Pike Minnow, Pea Mouth Chub and common suckers—all coarse fish.
The Fraser Valley Salmon Society represents the recreational angler and is frustrated over the lack of fishing opportunity. The “no trout fishing” regulation for the Fraser River which went into effect on August 15 effectively removed one of the only remaining fisheries for the recreational fisher. Fishing for coarse fish is now one of the only fishing opportunities remaining for this group. This latest closure decision borders on the absurd.
Recent decisions by both provincial and federal ministries responsible have proven to be ineffective in fisheries management. This latest edict again targets the recreational fisher and was implemented without any consultation or scientific evidence that it will result in protection of our valuable fish stocks. That the Fraser Valley Salmon Society is extremely disappointed in the closure of trout fishing on the Fraser River is an understatement. Agencies that made that decision need to do better.
The Fraser Valley Salmon Society supports the closure for salmon fishing when based on good science and in no way plans to pursue that fishery until regulations permit. The Society’s mandate is conservation, opportunity and habit protection.
Decision makers have not considered the fact that the public has right to simply recreate. The coarse fish demonstration fishery will provide that opportunity for men, women and children. Recreation fishing is truly a family activity.
For further information on this demonstration fishery contact the President of the Fraser Valley Salmon Society, Dean Werk, at 604.991.3474 or info@greatriverfishing.com
Sincerely,
Dean Werk Fraser Valley Salmon Society President
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Chris did you ever think you would see the day it would come to this.
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I have seen a lot in 76 years, it is the politics that do not help. I could write a book and relate all I have seen dealing with fishing and environmental issues for many years. Thanks for your contribution to this forum. Off to bed as have been working on this with a few others since 7Am this morning. Having the Leaf Mobile break down after covering the Peacemakers event witn Cheam F/N did not help, glad it was not up in the bush while hunting or fishing.
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And we all owe you a debt of gratitude for all the work you've done over the years Chris!! Thanks to you, sir!!!
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I was not raised in the Fraser Valley, so fishing the Fraser River for salmon is not part of my family history, nor is my livelihood dependent on it. But for some it is, and I respect and understand that. I also support demonstration fisheries as a form of protest; shoot, I even support civil disobedience.
However I do disagree with this statement in the press release "Decision makers have not considered the fact that the public has right to simply recreate" The issue of rights is used a lot, and mostly, as in this case, incorrectly.
To lump together rights and recreation/fishing is a false premise. Recreation isn't a right, nor is it even a freedom (if we use the narrow def'n of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) Let's call it an ability. We have the ability to recreate. But at the same time the state can limit that ability for the public good.
I have the ability to recreate by camping, but at times I am limited and not allowed to have a campfire. I have the ability to recreate by motorbiking, but at times I am limited when I am not allowed to take a motorized vehicle into the back country. I have the ability to recreate by fishing but at times I am limited when I am not allowed to fish for certain species when and where I want to. But heck if you insist that you have the right to recreate, then go ahead and recreate, just do it umpteen other ways that don't involve fishing for salmon and trout in the Fraser.
I would suggest that the angling community does itself no good in the public eye when it asserts "rights". That's just a yawner to me. I get that people are disappointed, that livelihoods are suffering and that the decision may be politically based on bad science, but it's wrong move to play the rights card.
"Decision makers have not considered the fact that the public has right to simply recreate" is just a bad sentence overall. You don't know what they considered or what they didn't. Just cuz the decision didn't go your way doesn't mean they didn't consider it. It's like when my son says to me "you aren't listening to me" My reply "Oh I'm listening, I just disagree" :)
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Chilliwack Progress story by Jennifer Feinberg just out. Also a number of prize draws of rods etc. will be held to those taking part. Also some bait will be provided.
https://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-puts-lack-of-fishing-opportunities-on-the-fraser-in-focus/?fbclid=IwAR3X7m_IL269a2bqLgTEOLkvJ-f89kSdSVUUbZdAeLKa-amfMX6JUyhyWt4
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I agree with shining a spotlight on the lack of rec fishing opportunities on the Fraser River. Good job guys. I grew up fishing the Fraser River for salmon.
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I hope it gets a decent turnout. I think lots of people will be in the Summas fishing for Pinks on that day tho.
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It wasa fair amount of work to put this together in only a few days. It will only take up part of a person's day. We have several nice draw prizes coffee donuts, pop juice, water etc. Also Dart and Tackle providing worms and bait
I will do some filming of course to show people that are unable to attend. We are hoping Rod will be able to attend and film too as his videos are better than mine.
Of course so many people complain here and on social media about fishing but do not find the time to attend a event like this. It will be family fun I am sure and good fellowship as well.
Being involved in fishing issues for many years as many know since I have been on this forum since 2002 when Rodney started it.
I truly think this is a event that is well worth attending by all that can and are concerned about our recreational fishery.
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Who from this forum is attending?
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I apologize. I would go BUT the window for Pinks at the mouth of the Sumas is only two weeks. Time is limited for me. I'll be fishing for Pinks
Otherwise I would go.
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I apologize. I would go BUT the window for Pinks at the mouth of the Sumas is only two weeks. Time is limited for me. I'll be fishing for Pinks
Otherwise I would go.
didn't pink shoot into vedder?
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didn't pink shoot into vedder?
You do have handarounds that flirt with the boundary
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I hope it goes well. Unfortunately I am not willing to drive from the Greater Vancouver Area to Chilliwack on a Stat holiday. Too much hassle with traffic & I learned to catch all the coarse fish I wanted over 50 years ago.
I hope the demo goes well. Pike Minnows will take flies very well. They fight reasonably well. Sometimes I have seen very nice mayfly hatches along the bars along the river in that area in late summer and coarse fish rise to feed on the surface.
Good luck.
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Thanks Ralph we understand but tomorrow was the only day our president could attend and it was important he is there. We have 6 rods and a few other draw prizes along with drinks and coffee and donuts. No matter how many attend it will be sucessful I am sure, not sure if media will attend, we are hoping Rod will be there to film but I will provide footage too. This is a very important event as president Dean will explain at 9:30 before we head to fish. Chilliwack dart and Tackle has donated some worms and some other bait.
All Fraser River fishers should do their best to attend, I feel this deep in my heart and have been working to retain and get fishing opportunity since Fred Helmer Jr and I stated the Fraser Valley Salmon Society in 1984, a lot of water under the bridge since then. Only the Master and I remain on the board since that start 35 years ago. I ask for the attendance of many tomorrow.
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Thanks to Fred's Custom Tackle and Fraser Valley Salmon Sociey for donating prizes too.
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A great event and day. Pictures and videos on my FB page if you are intersted. Chilliwack Progress and I were the only media type there. Others did not show for one reason or another so mine will have to do as Rodney could not attend either.
Maybe they will attend the next event in the coming months as the FVSS is back on the front lines to try to protect the recreational angler when fishing opportunity should be there. FOC seems to be in hiding as even Rodney has not reecived an answer to his letter,s we will send today pictures and videos with a letter soon..
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Not sure what you are looking then to respond too. They have already sent out multiple emails on this subject and the river is closed to sports fishing because some First Nations on the Fraser have not harvested one salmon yet this season.
Your better off talking to First Nations about it then DFO. There the ones who keep reminding DFO telling them as long as First Nations don’t get fish you can’t open the river to recs.. not even catch and release
This I sent about BB or gear restrictions. I saw an email by DFO stating that even if we went 100% deprive in the lower Fraser they still would not allow it because some First Nations above the slide have not harvested a salmon this year.
Gotta go after the fisheries minister it’s his interpretation of the law that’s causing this mess.
Thanks for all you do Chris and we need as much people in this fight as possible. So say the only chance we have at this point is getting rid of the liberals come October.
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From FVSS president Dean Werk https://youtu.be/8cia9E1Dqwc
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Video 2 on the beach, this is just the start of more action to be taken in the months ahead.https://youtu.be/xjicrJSFyU8
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Who from this forum is attending?
Really sorry I missed this event Chris, I was away on holidays at the time with no service.
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From FVSS president Dean Werk https://youtu.be/8cia9E1Dqwc
Great video and points by Dean, I was not able to attend this boat because honestly i thought you needed a river boat. I did attend the protest at the ministers office early on in the year.
I know where you can get some sign that say "stop the political bargaining with chinook" altho now that i think about it we probably should of had them say "stop the political bargaining with salmon" as that is whats going on here just like it did in the spring in the ocean.
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Long ago we have entered the scarcity mindset.
Everyone is pointing their fingers at everyone else but nobody is pointing their finger at the right issue.
Over fishing, over hunting, over exploitation of all resources.
Too many people.
And now that we have very little left everyone is hoarding.
It's pathetic.
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Long ago we have entered the scarcity mindset.
Everyone is pointing their fingers at everyone else but nobody is pointing their finger at the right issue.
Over fishing, over hunting, over exploitation of all resources.
Too many people.
And now that we have very little left everyone is hoarding.
It's pathetic.
This years pink run is going to be 5+ million, The Summer Chinook run is the strongest its been since the early 2000's late 1990 and much stronger then in was in the 1980's. Yes sockeye is worst ever but its not all doom and gloom.
Yes people are finger pointing but if your wondering why you can't fish for pinks its because that finger pointing is working.
https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/09/01/showdown-over-salmon-first-nations-along-the-mighty-fraser-want-sport-fishing-closed-near-the-rivers-mouth-to-save-some-species-at-risk-of-extinction.html
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Not sure what you are looking then to respond too. They have already sent out multiple emails on this subject and the river is closed to sports fishing because some First Nations on the Fraser have not harvested one salmon yet this season.
Your better off talking to First Nations about it then DFO. There the ones who keep reminding DFO telling them as long as First Nations don’t get fish you can’t open the river to recs.. not even catch and release
This I sent about BB or gear restrictions. I saw an email by DFO stating that even if we went 100% deprive in the lower Fraser they still would not allow it because some First Nations above the slide have not harvested a salmon this year.
Gotta go after the fisheries minister it’s his interpretation of the law that’s causing this mess.
Thanks for all you do Chris and we need as much people in this fight as possible. So say the only chance we have at this point is getting rid of the liberals come October.
The fishery wasn't managed any better under Gail Shea the Conservative Fishery Minister.
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The rec pink fishery was closed??
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The rec pink fishery was closed??
Who cares about the pink rec fishery.... ?
Protecting coho / sockeye / steelhead and Chinook is what i care about.....
Losing a a cycle of fishing for pinks is in the big picture... a sacrifice i am prepared to make.
Of course i would prefer fisheries to ask the real question... why coho can not get up the Chehalis .... what changed.... ? Hint - i don't mean the course of the river......
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Who cares about the pink rec fishery.... ?
Protecting coho / sockeye / steelhead and Chinook is what i care about.....
Losing a a cycle of fishing for pinks is in the big picture... a sacrifice i am prepared to make.
Of course i would prefer fisheries to ask the real question... why coho can not get up the Chehalis .... what changed.... ? Hint - i don't mean the course of the river......
What you are witnessing has nothing to do with conservation and more to do with the Liberal government's policy towards first nation. That is giving them more of the recreational fishery quota. It's not a short term policy decision it's a long term one.
Summer chinook are also having great returns not seen in a lot time and yet the rec fishery on the river is closed too. FN fisheries have already harvest 14 thousand chinook that's more then they harvested in 2016 and 2017 for FSC. One group is harvesting more while the other is shut down for "conservation".
Choose to believe what you want
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The rec pink fishery was closed??
just in the river - it's open in the chuck and many anglers are complaining that there are too many pinks. It's also open in the Harrison and the Vedder/Chilliwack. It was also closed when the IFC protection measures were introduced in the 90s.
FNs are taking South Thompson chinook to replace the collapse of sockeye returns. There is no evidence otherwise this stock is at some record return. Last year it was less than 40% of the record returns. Overall the better returns of chinook stock reflects the conservation measures taken on the entire BC coast. Stupid to toss that away to please a small number of river anglers.
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FNs are taking South Thompson chinook to replace the collapse of sockeye returns. There is no evidence otherwise this stock is at some record return. Last year it was less than 40% of the record returns. Overall the better returns of chinook stock reflects the conservation measures taken on the entire BC coast. Stupid to toss that away to please a small number of river anglers.
well there's your answer chris & FVSS
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well there's your answer chris & FVSS
... of course you fail to consider that an opening will mean hundreds if not thousands of flossers will also get a shot at your 'bonanza' of late summer red springs.
So much for abundance.
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... of course you fail to consider that an opening will mean hundreds if not thousands of flossers will also get a shot at your 'bonanza' of late summer red springs.
So much for abundance.
So you admit their is enough chinook in the river where BB would be an effective method.
You defend the 700 plus fn Gilnets that are our fishing tossing away pinks and sockeye.
But god forbid the evil rec fishermen is out on the bar.
You amaze me
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Great video and points by Dean, I was not able to attend this boat because honestly i thought you needed a river boat. I did attend the protest at the ministers office early on in the year.
I know where you can get some sign that say "stop the political bargaining with chinook" altho now that i think about it we probably should of had them say "stop the political bargaining with salmon" as that is whats going on here just like it did in the spring in the ocean.
We changed the location as so many people with families it was better to fish from shore and saved taking all the things in the boat across the river. I am sure we would have had more people if we had announced this earlier, always learning. Thanks for your posts on this.
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Video 3 of the Fraser Valley Salmon Society Coarse Fish Demonstration with president Dean Werk I filmed On September 2, 2019. Dean gives a wrap up and a message to the govermment. Also when will they get the ocean located Atlantic fish farms out of our Oceans.The present Liberal goverment is now facing moving to the other side of the house now as many are very concerned how Fisheries and Oceans handle the salmon file on many fronts.
Are you listening Fisheries and Oceans staff and Justin Trudeau? Sorry the battery died during the interview but we caught the main message from Dean. https://youtu.be/Q46SRYXoUVQ
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LOL! Go troll somewhere else sonny.
Can you engage in a conversation without hysterically stuffing words in my mouth? I didn't mention any of these things and my only point was whatever 'abundance' exists may be due to the earlier restrictions in the chuck.
Bar fishers can speak for themselves but seems to me, almost all are asking for restrictive regs that would discourage bottom bouncing yet DFO has never indicated they would open a salmon fishery under such regulations.
So you admit their is enough chinook in the river where BB would be an effective method.
You defend the 700 plus fn Gilnets that are our fishing tossing away pinks and sockeye.
But god forbid the evil rec fishermen is out on the bar.
You amaze me
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Who cares about the pink rec fishery.... ?
Protecting coho / sockeye / steelhead and Chinook is what i care about.....
Losing a a cycle of fishing for pinks is in the big picture... a sacrifice i am prepared to make.
Of course i would prefer fisheries to ask the real question... why coho can not get up the Chehalis .... what changed.... ? Hint - i don't mean the course of the river......
Who cares about the pink fishery?
The environment you live in cares. Pinks come in larger numbers than coho and leave a lot more nutrients in the environment.
Even coho care about pinks. They live off the nutrients pinks leave behind.
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... of course you fail to consider that an opening will mean hundreds if not thousands of flossers will also get a shot at your 'bonanza' of late summer red springs.
So much for abundance.
I dont understand how hard it is to impose gear restrictions on the Fraser. It seems ridiculous why we cant do this.
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I dont understand how hard it is to impose gear restrictions on the Fraser. It seems ridiculous why we cant do this.
Because in order to put in the gear restrictions necessary they need to amend the BC sports fishing act. This take an act of parliament to be done.
However the current closures have ZERO to do with the gear we use and even if we went 100% selective gear fishing it still would be closed and I quote :
"Regarding in-river chinook Rec. chinook fisheries, I can tell you that this isn’t something the Dept. will support, given the 2019 salmon season overall and where we are at in meeting First Nation FSC priorities on a broad scale. For example, there are First Nation communities in parts of the watershed that have not caught a salmon yet this year. I don’t think there’s much utility at this point in discussing gear-specifics as the door for Fraser R. main stem Rec. chinook fisheries remains firmly closed."
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It's part of the Regulations of the Fisheries Act but not a separate act itself.; https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-137/page-1.html#docCont
there will be a matching Provincial Regulation under the relevant act.
Regulations don't require an Act of Parliament to change. The Fisheries Act does say they regulations can be altered by an order of the Governor In Council - which means the Prime Minister and Cabinet. I'd also guess there would be a consultation process. In some cases the Minister has the authority to alter regulations. The number of people who oppose tackle restrictions is quite large, probably many times larger than the number who bar fish between Chilliwack and Hope.
OK WMY who is responsible for your quoted material? I have seen it before but don't remember which official made that statement
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It's part of the Regulations of the Fisheries Act but not a separate act itself.; https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-137/page-1.html#docCont
there will be a matching Provincial Regulation under the relevant act.
Regulations don't require an Act of Parliament to change. The Fisheries Act does say they regulations can be altered by an order of the Governor In Council - which means the Prime Minister and Cabinet. I'd also guess there would be a consultation process. In some cases the Minister has the authority to alter regulations. The number of people who oppose tackle restrictions is quite large, probably many times larger than the number who bar fish between Chilliwack and Hope.
OK WMY who is responsible for your quoted material? I have seen it before but don't remember which official made that statement
yes you are correct the Act can be ammended like this like they did with electronic recording vs in ink http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2019/2019-04-03/html/sor-dors76-eng.html
was told this path was not possible for leader lengths, IF you recall the leader length regulation was suppose to be put in an Omnibus Bill package.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42462.msg401343#msg401343
"As discussed, the following is an email thread regarding the ability to vary leader length. Chris Manore was able to get permission to put into the Omnibus Bill package the ability to vary leader length. The start of this thread regarding the (23:00 h to 24:00 h close time) is just operational and nothing to be concerned about."
Don't no what ever happened to this but also Bill C-68 is also suppose to have the ability to do it and enforce it,
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I dont understand how hard it is to impose gear restrictions on the Fraser. It seems ridiculous why we cant do this.
I think you misunderstood me. I understand the huge positive environmental impact of pink salmon.
My point is that i am willing to miss a few pink years of fishing in the fraser .... if it can help boost coho, chinook, sockeye numbers.... and pink numbers back to healthier / more positive levels...
When salmon stocks are threatened.... action needs to be taken.
Getting rid of pen fish farms should also be under consideration. Farmed salmon tastes so bad i don't know how people can even it.....