Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: SALMONRULE on July 07, 2019, 11:55:22 PM
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any reports if the fish have arrived and if fishing is picking up at furry. been searching for reports and hope so I can prepare my old car for the drive towards Squamish for a pink salmon !
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The first pink thread. Nice.
My logs show Pinks in numbers on July 28th. A bit to go yet
I hear reports of some Pink encounters North Island now.
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Pacific Angler Blog mentioned pink encounters locally around West Van. Squamish itself is not open to pinks for now.
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Rivers not open to retention yet, but Howe Sound and West Van Ocean/Beach fishing is open to retain 4 pinks daily.
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/tidal-maree/a-s28-eng.html
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Pink returns to the Squamish in 2017 were poor as was fishing at Furry Creek. I haven't seen any assessment of expectations for this year but I am not that optimistic beyond thinking it can't be much worse than 2017.
Fish could be there now and normally show strongly within the next 10 days or so.
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I haven't seen any assessment of expectations for this year but I am not that optimistic beyond thinking it can't be much worse than 2017.
It can be much worse
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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Squamish Pink run isnt completely obliterated. The 2015 heat combined with the reckless poaching and C&R I saw in 2015 really showed in 2017.
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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Squamish Pink run isnt completely obliterated. The 2015 heat combined with the reckless poaching and C&R I saw in 2015 really showed in 2017.
Our local rivers in NW Washington are expecting dismal returns due to flooding in late 2017 that washed out the redds. Did the Squamish system experience the same flooding?
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In 2017, I went to Furry creek on Aug 5 and did not see fish.
on Aug 12, saw a few fish caught
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Furry Creek was pretty empty in 2017 compared to prior years. I almost had the beach to myself a few times. Lots periods when no one on the entire beach was fighting fish.
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well this isn't the best... I was looking forward to catching some pinks this year. Finally got a car and was hoping to participate in the fisheries at different locations I wasn't able to during my childhood. Hopefully the lower the retention from 4 to 2 this summer so the pinks can recover a bit. When does the squam or the mamquam begin to liven up?
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I hope it is none retention to help recovery. The fishery is two- year cycle. We cannot expect low numbers of fish produce more fish in one cycle.
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I hope it is none retention to help recovery. The fishery is two- year cycle. We cannot expect low numbers of fish produce more fish in one cycle.
Non retention creates an upheaval.
Instead fish limits should be managed better.
2 salmon per day has always seemed like a reasonable limit to me for those who love to fish and eat the fish.
Of course you have those who just want to fill their freezer as fast as they can.
They will complain.
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My guess is Squamish pinks are going to be awful this cycle due to the 9 gravel moving events that we had on this cycles spawn. The fry downstream trap on the Cheakamus ( as part of Hydro's water use plan) commonly generates fry estimates of around 40 million fry but last cycle was under 4 million. The hatchery only managed to release 600 000 fry out of their 1.8 million egg target as the fish just were not there to collect. My guess is it's going to be poor and very crowded with the Fraser closed.
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I hope it is none retention to help recovery. The fishery is two- year cycle. We cannot expect low numbers of fish produce more fish in one cycle.
I cant recall the year exactly but there has been returns of almost tripple in one cycle. Its happened.
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My guess is Squamish pinks are going to be awful this cycle due to the 9 gravel moving events that we had on this cycles spawn. The fry downstream trap on the Cheakamus ( as part of Hydro's water use plan) commonly generates fry estimates of around 40 million fry but last cycle was under 4 million. The hatchery only managed to release 600 000 fry out of their 1.8 million egg target as the fish just were not there to collect. My guess is it's going to be poor and very crowded with the Fraser closed.
Damn that's disappointing to hear. Just read a fraser pink report that also notes last cycle was the lowest fry output on record. 5 million expected to return to the fraser this year.
It's also interesting to see the 1999 return was similar to 2017 return and fry output. In 2001 returns were over 20 million, so who knows.
https://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Day%201%202019%20Fraser%20Sox%20and%20Pink%20Forecast.pdf
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https://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Day%201%202019%20Fraser%20Sox%20and%20Pink%20Forecast.pdf
thanks, good stuff!
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Guys are starting to report catching pinks with odd coho mixed in.
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Guys are starting to report catching pinks with odd coho mixed in.
Where ? , at Furry Creek?
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I'll be stopping by Furry Creek with my 8 year old on the way back from camping the weekend at Alice Lake. Hopefully it's better than last couple of runs - nature ain't happy nowadays.
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Where ? , at Furry Creek?
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/2019-vancouver-howe-sound-sechelt-reports-thread.73067/page-40#post-937202
"Went to check out the pinks last night. Caught 1 from shore up Howe Sound .pic#1 second pic is squamish river today. Looks like they have arrived"
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...and so the Barbarian Hordes are unleashed!
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https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/2019-vancouver-howe-sound-sechelt-reports-thread.73067/page-40#post-937202
"Went to check out the pinks last night. Caught 1 from shore up Howe Sound .pic#1 second pic is squamish river today. Looks like they have arrived"
Thanks
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My records show Furry Creek pinks are starting now (within the last day or two).
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Took a look today for a few hours in the morning and didnt see any action. I'll probably wait another week or two before going out again.
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Is Squamish open for pink retention? If so, is it still one per day? Can't find anything in fresh water regulations.
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Is Squamish open for pink retention? If so, is it still one per day? Can't find anything in fresh water regulations.
Like in years past, if there is no mention of retention, then you can't retain them. Area 28 appears to be open to retention.
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there is currently no retention in the Squamish River system:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html
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Opens July 15
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=223118&ID=all
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Opens July 15
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=223118&ID=all
One fish allowed . Hope DFO knows what they are doing
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in 2017 it was the local Fisheries Council -including FN representatives, who recommended a 1 fish limit thinking it would promote some tourist business but cause minimal harm to salmon returns.
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Squamish River pink salmon retention opening has been announced.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=223118&ID=all
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No mention of Mamquam. They must be concerned about those fish.
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Hit low tide today on the way back from camping. Beautiful day, handful of other people, no sign of fish. Was lovely. Headed out of town for a month, wishing everyone luck in the upcoming gong show!
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was out for a bit the other day, nothing between the handful of guys there.
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Nobody hooked any fish today on the beach nor in the river while I was there. Time to panic :-\ ? :D
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No need to panic..
It's still early... there are a few early fish, I hooked and lost 2 last Tues and saw one caught... but that was over the whole day. Im guessing it will be another week or so yet before they start show up in bigger numbers..
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unless there has been a dramatic increase in ocean survival of pink salmon don't expect much from the Squamish. I would not expect it to be much better than 2017 and it could be worse. Based on reports so far it sounds to be about on par with the previous cycle..
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Nothing,nothing nothing. Hope it is just too early
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Fishing for pinks in some other part of the world. 18 fish limit. 40$ day license
https://youtu.be/pbgwpy7kPkQ?t=3m
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Same deal as last year, fish travelling on the west side of the sound.
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I got 12 today.
Beers, that is. Those folks at Howe Sound Brewing sure know how to make a beverage!
Gorgeous day. Don't often see that few people on the beach/bank.
I didn't catch anything and didn't see anything caught but still worth the drive. Looks like they had a regatta in the Sound. The kite boarders were a pleasure to watch as well.
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Superstore have 2 pinks for $15.00
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Same deal as last year, fish travelling on the west side of the sound.
you mean 2017...reports from that side in 2017 said it was just as empty.
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you mean 2017...reports from that side in 2017 said it was just as empty.
Yes 2017, I was out on a boat a few times and each trip it was super east to get into dozens on the west side plus reports from buddies who encounter similar success. Furry creek was completely different story, few schools there once every couple days and the bite would be over by 8 am.
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Drove by Furry Creek yesterday and only one car parked there.
My notes say the peak of the run will be in a week or so.
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Squamish and Furry dead this weekend. Not even a riser. My rough guess is just another bad run, not a late run.
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I was at lower Squamish river today. No fish out of the water and 5-7 fishermen.
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Seems like another bust year in the making...
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The Squamish is a fine example of overfishing
Human's trying to squeeze every last ounce of salmon from its waters
Not just the Pink salmon but all species. Its beyond sad.
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Sheesh...so much doom and gloom..
I hooked one yesterday at Squamish and saw a few rolling.
I think it still just early. Aug-Sept is generally when they come through the Squamish in numbers.
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Seems like another bust year in the making...
Why do you say this? How many have you caught there mid July in previous years?
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Not sure, I don't keep records. But I recall in 2015, the first year I went for pinks, seeing schools of thousands of fish milling about at FC. As I recall the great anticipation I had in 2017 for the pink run, which in comparison to 2015 was a real let down. Everyone was saying 'they're just late', and then it was a very disappointing year. Just as people are saying 'they're just late' this year...we'll see.
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My guess is Squamish pinks are going to be awful this cycle due to the 9 gravel moving events that we had on this cycles spawn. The fry downstream trap on the Cheakamus ( as part of Hydro's water use plan) commonly generates fry estimates of around 40 million fry but last cycle was under 4 million. The hatchery only managed to release 600 000 fry out of their 1.8 million egg target as the fish just were not there to collect. My guess is it's going to be poor and very crowded with the Fraser closed.
Once again Brian, its looking like you are correct. Many still think they are late but almost always when they are late they just don't exist and the return is poor. I guess the 30 years or so working for DFO helped with your insights.
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July 28th in 2013 and 2015 my records show very solid days. The start of it anyhow and Aug 10th being the peak.
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2017 Watching fish spawn at the very end of the sand bar was kinda troubling in my opinion, the match of the big floods of water had pushed LOTS of the spawning pinks, coho and chum out of their normal areas and I found fish in places where they shouldn't be line small side channels that are normally dry 90% of the year and even just on dry land at the base of trees (Not consumed by predation).
This year I feel like it will be a small small run of fish that won't even compare to 2017's numbers cause of above said observations, I am surprised with the low numbers that they would even open retention of pinks in the Squamish if numbers will be so low.
2015 Was a good run of pinks as I remember good numbers of fish all over but if anyone remembers that in early October there was a massive amount of rain that came down and pushed a lot of gravel and items down river and at that time I had already made my prediction that 2017 will be low numbers and 2019 will be the same if not worse cause we had more events that flushed the river in October through to November.
I could be completely wrong about all this and the fish are going to show up at any time but that is what a lot and I mean a LOT of people said about Furry creek and it was only hot for a week at the start of August and then quiet again.
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Late fish never show.. that being said it looks to be a bit better so far then 2017, that’s not saying much tho as 2017 was a complete collapse.
Fishing in west van for pinks has been better then 2017 but Thoes fish are heading for the Indian river.
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Definitely a bust year. Last year starting july 16th I was picking up 5-15 fish an evening on the sq and from then on fishing was pretty consistent with most guys on the bar hooking into a few. As for Furry creek I used to fish it almost everyday in the past couple cycles and found the peak to be mid-late July with multiple days of 10+ hook ups for everyone, but this year?.... :-\
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At Furry Creek 2013 & 2015 both started earlier in July than I seem to recall happening with earlier years. Late July into August were the better times in previous years. FWIW 2013 blew away '15, let alone '17. I think 2013 was the highest return on record for the south coast.
2017 was the worst pink season cycle I fished in close to 40 years of fishing for pinks. I had one day on the Squamish that I landed about a dozen fish. The season started later and ended earlier than any other cycle I can recall.
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In 2015 5 of us landed over 30 Pinks each before noon. Maybe that was part of the problem. The Squamish was like a bathtub. Ever since then I've capped my C&R at 10.
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2013 and 2015 at Furry Creek I recall getting fish just before the end of the first week and as time went on it only got better, but what concerned me in 2015 is that in late August I was still catching pinks but most of them had turned brown and looked like they were ready to spawn but they were around the cliff side where a large sail boat had been anchored for about two months. I keep hearing of people saying how some pinks turn color before they head in to the rivers but I am talking white belly and dripping eggs and milt kinda conditions while out in the ocean still.
2017 was probably the worst for me as well. Squamish had fish but my theory was that because of the low low numbers they are basically running scared or are searching for more fish to group with before spawning?
Sigh... guess this gives me more of a reason to make more bonefish flies instead of tying pink salmon flies.
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So, just one Question.
When looking out at the water across from Furry creek, was the water silty on the other side?
Just curious, because most of the fish get the scent from the squamish and will come up that side like the last cycle.
They did really good at defence islands while it sucked at Furry last cycle, and I was having 20-30fish days in the squamish.
So you can't judge a book by it's covers.
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So, just one Question.
When looking out at the water across from Furry creek, was the water silty on the other side?
Just curious, because most of the fish get the scent from the squamish and will come up that side like the last cycle.
They did really good at defence islands while it sucked at Furry last cycle, and I was having 20-30fish days in the squamish.
So you can't judge a book by it's covers.
I was reading that the outflow from the Squamish was mostly on the other side around the defense island and I did hear of good fishing over there but that is the Squamish run of fish, not sure if anyone has noticed but there are NO fish spawning in Furry creek like in the past.
Squamish in 2017 was good, on gear or fly it was fairly consistant and you were seeing fish jumping and rising to give some indication of movement which got people into fish but not like the mass numbers of fish like in 2013-2015 where you couldn't really wade out without being bumped into by travelling pinks. Right now it feels more like swinging for steelhead as there are so few of them and even if you see them getting them to bite can be hit and miss at times cause they are way more tight lipped when in fewer numbers.
Not judging a book by it's cover but I made my predictions in 2015 and 2017 as I've told people that the numbers will be pretty much dismal cause of the destruction by the washing out of the spawning beds, if I am wrong I'll gladly eat my own words but as other members have said in areas where they should be thick enough to walk over like a living mat of fish, there was literally only enough fish to count on two hands.
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Just wondering if there is in-season monitoring of the Squamish run to determine health/size of the run and/or if escapement goals are being met? And if so, is there any historical data to compare with?
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In a nut shell, no. The only input is very limited. The Cheakamus River Water Use plan monitors juvenile migration on the Cheakamus and that is about it ( last pink cycle the juvenile migration was about 10% of the recent averages). Tenderfoot Hatchery conducts a pink enhancement program and they input there catch and spawning numbers. Last cycle they only collected about 1/3 of there target due to poor escapement. The hatchery also has a chinook enhancement program on most of the major steams in the watershed and they also pass along there pink bycatch numbers and observations. There are also several individuals with extensive salmon expertise and they also pass along there observations. These are anecdotal but they tend to reflect the reality in the watershed.
DFO Fish Management has no escapement goals nor any idea of what the escapement is or has been or what it should be. It is just based on if there is lots or little amounts of pinks in the rivers. That is the info they use to base fisheries on and that includes commercial fisheries. If you feel that needs to improve then direct your comments to Barbara.Mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca . She is the area fish manager for the Squamish and Howe Sound area.
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I wouldn’t waste my time emailing any peon in DFO about it best send your concerns to the Squamish fish nations they have far more pull with the top brass in DFO.
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All the tribs were blown today so no clean inner seam. Only a report of two fish caught at furry up until the low tide. Hopefully dropping water levels will clear up the tribs.
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From my unscientific observations, it looks like to me this season is worse than 2017. I doubt the fish are late. There is fewer of them around.
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The smaller the return the smaller and narrower the bell curve looks. While the peak of the bell curve will remain similar to previous years, the leading and trailing edges will make it appear that the fish are later to arrive and disappear sooner to disappear.
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Very slow today at FC. Buddy was there for a few hours this morning. Only saw two hookups, both long distance released.
I'm afraid fic is right. It looks like a much smaller than expected return. Just found my 2005 notes: " Friday, July 29, 2005". What a blast on Furry Creek today. 15 fish hooked and 6 landed. Rob landed at least twice as many."
Wow...it sure has gone downhill in the last few years. :(
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I was there at first light today. Nothing seen. A bunch of people showed up for the tide change but I had to leave.
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I finally got one yesterday on my third visits to Squamish River. I saw 2 fish out of the water.
I feel that it's been steelhead fishing.
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spent about 5 hours on the river this morning and early afternoon. Saw 2 risers and hooked but lost 1 fish. Before Leaving checked the tides - high tide was about 5am. I have heard it takes about 6 hours for fish to get to the popular fishing locales. Saw the first rise at 10:45.
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spent about 5 hours on the river this morning and early afternoon. Saw 2 risers and hooked but lost 1 fish. Before Leaving checked the tides - high tide was about 5am. I have heard it takes about 6 hours for fish to get to the popular fishing locales. Saw the first rise at 10:45.
It takes 30min for the first fish to push in to the first popular spot on the Squamish after titde change. Doesnt take long at all.
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Pink salmon swim upstream @12k per hour? I was a few of miles upstream of that in any event.
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I have my fingers crossed the Fraser fish will be better, but I won't get my hopes up too much. It sounds like relatively speaking the Fraser Pinks in 2019 may not be as bad as the Squamish? With the heavy rain last night, it's complete waste of time to hit that river for a while until it clears up.
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I have my fingers crossed the Fraser fish will be better, but I won't get my hopes up too much. It sounds like relatively speaking the Fraser Pinks in 2019 may not be as bad as the Squamish? With the heavy rain last night, it's complete waste of time to hit that river for a while until it clears up.
Area 20 is a bit better so far then 2017 and area 12 pink catches are lower then 2017, still early but not looking good
https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/test-fishing-results/
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Fraser Pinks are at least a month or so later than other major stocks on the coast and should be just starting to move through the marine approaches. Locally the Squamish is the other big run and that was expected to be low. Area 12 (Port Hardy/Robson Bight) will see a large component of fish bound for northern rivers to this point, like the Campbell or the Broughton Archipelago Rivers. So far what fish have shown up in the Campbell seem to be a bit later than normal. In a couple weeks there be a better idea of how the Fraser run is shaping up. So far there is no indication from other runs that returns are any better than 2017, but here's hoping!
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Pink salmon swim upstream @12k per hour? I was a few of miles upstream of that in any event.
The mouth of the Mamquam sees fish in 30min. It's about 6klm
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Squamish is totally blown and Mamquam is chalky white today. Amazing one night's rain can foul up both rivers. Had no choice but FC was like a ghost town and saw no riser in the afternoon.
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Squamish is totally blown and Mamquam is chalky white today. Amazing one night's rain can foul up both rivers. Had no choice but FC was like a ghost town and saw no riser in the afternoon.
We went out one morning when only 4mm rain was forecasted the night before. River had 3 or 4 inches of visibility with tree branches coming down. It doesn't take much for that river to get blown. 18mm fell between Thurs/Friday according to
http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=336
It might take a few days to clear up.
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https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/real_time_e.html?stn=08GA022
The main flow went up almost 3 meters. Not surprised to see it has blown out. Will probably take another couple days to clear up.
Stopped by furry on Thursday at the early afternoon low tide. I did not fish but walked around and scoped the area. Only 4 anglers, no fish jumping, no seals, no signs of fish caught. Crazy how this spot has turned right off the past couple cycles.
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From Pacific angler Blog: https://www.pacificangler.ca/pacific-angler-friday-fishing-report-august-2-2019/
"hat we have been seeing on the water. When I look at our logs, good fishing on beaches up Howe Sound started 4 weeks ago in 2015. This was an amazing year. When we look at last year, we saw some “ok” reports this week, but we never really had the concentration of fish to make beach fishing consistent. So at least from our 12-14 years of information the numbers from DFO make sense.
Long story short it is time to go pink fishing up Howe Sound but with lower numbers, beach fishing consistency is not going to be great. On the Squamish, guys and girls who know what they are doing are getting fish. There have even been some epic days but don’t expect epic days every day. So get out there, put time on the water and it should be worth the trip. Alex has more details below and we can only hope for more epic days to come.
If you want to fish the Seymour mouth or up Indian Arm for pinks, we expect them soon but have not heard anything yet. When we hear the first reports of pinks off the Capilano mouth we know it is getting close. The Fraser should be a few weeks out yet."
From DFO: https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224012&ID=all
"Fraser Pink salmon run size and timing estimates are expected to be available
later in August. Stock composition information in the Area 12 and 20 Purse
Seine test fisheries indicates proportions of Fraser Pinks at 17% and 16%
respectively. Non-Fraser Southern BC and Washington State Pink stocks are
currently making up the majority of the Pink abundance at this time."
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https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/real_time_e.html?stn=08GA022
The main flow went up almost 3 meters. Not surprised to see it has blown out. Will probably take another couple days to clear up
Haha. Wonder how many people drove all the way out there this morning thinking today would be the day to give it a go without realizing it would be a mess
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Pacific Anglers reports often strike me as overly optimistic. In their blog they describe 2015 as "an amazing year" which it was not. At that time it had the lowest returns in 20 years and the # of fish in the Squamish were markedly lower than 2013. Howe Sound is a big body of water and pinks in the South Western end could be bound almost anywhere. Indian River pinks normally reach their peak in the local waters on the August long weekend.
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“There have even been some epic days” - Ya right ::)
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https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html
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“There have even been some epic days” - Ya right ::)
LOL well they are in the business of selling fishing gear helps if people fish.
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(https://i.imgur.com/o16t0hj.png)
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https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html
snore
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Lots of people out on the River today. I managed to get one. Most people did not. A few who are skilled and/or lucky got into multiple fish. FC apparently had some fish earlier in the day but when I tried it, it was devoid of fish and people.
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Furry Creek parking lot and a couple of spots further north seemed busy when I went by around 4:00pm Sunday.
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Rain coming Saturday/Sunday/Monday. Probably best to get out before the river is blown. Probably not fishable by Sunday/Monday. Lots of cars are parked near Furry Creek at times, but many are just site seeing, or waiting to see other people hook fish before casting.
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A few fish coming ashore on the Squamish today. Tons of people, at least double the greatest number I have ever seen before. Finding a place to cast a major problem.
DFO out in numbers all day checking everybody.
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A few fish coming ashore on the Squamish today. Tons of people, at least double the greatest number I have ever seen before. Finding a place to cast a major problem.
DFO out in numbers all day checking everybody.
WHy does DFO care?
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My friend was there today. He was checked by DFO. There was a rumor circulating that the officers were telling people it will be shut down this week
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My friend was there today. He was checked by DFO. There was a rumor circulating that the officers were telling people it will be shut down this week
Better shut down. very very poor return. People still try to hook the odd fish in Manquam river
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Better shut down. very very poor return. People still try to hook the odd fish in Manquam river
I agree 100%
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I heard it could be shut down on thursday
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Actually my experience Saturday was better than any day in 2017 in terms of the number of fish observed. The run is nowhere near 2015 or 2013 but not as bad as some are saying.
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so many scumbags killing fish on the mam all weekend, saw lots of fines handed out and some rod confinscations wich was great.
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Was good to see the COs going up and down the bar yesterday, one of them was even carrying a expensive fly rod! ;D Still seeing people killing them on Mamquam though, even Fred's posted on their social media of a pink that was seen killed on the mam....
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From the present fishing regulations:
downstream of the fishing boundary signs at the power line crossing approximately 1.5 km upstream of the confluence with the Cheakamus River, and the Mamquam River downstream of the CN rail bridge.
I think the regs are different than a couple of years ago in that the lower part of the Mamquam is included in the Squamish retention area whereas there was a time when it was excluded.
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Up until 2001 or so pinks could be retained in the Mamquam below the Highway Bridge.
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From the present fishing regulations:
I think the regs are different than a couple of years ago in that the lower part of the Mamquam is included in the Squamish retention area whereas there was a time when it was excluded.
thats wrong and confuses people in the actual fishery notice the lower mam is excluded and not open for retention, had a chat with the dfo officers about it and theyve been ticketing any and all mam retentions.
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lol.... If anyone retained a pink salmon on the Mamquam River downstream from the CN railway bridge and is being fined, I'd:
1) Pull up the Region 2 regulations (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html) and point out that it is indeed open for retention.
2) Take the ticket to court and point out how pathetic and ridiculous the current recreational salmon fishing regulations are presented online. It is unreadable, more often than not they contradicts each other (in this case, under Mamquam River no retention information for pink salmon is listed whereas it is permitted downstream from the CN bridge under Squamish River's section).
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thats wrong and confuses people in the actual fishery notice the lower mam is excluded and not open for retention, had a chat with the dfo officers about it and theyve been ticketing any and all mam retentions.
Yeah that's interesting it doesn't say anything about the CN rail bridge in the notice: https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=223118&ID=all
They should update the website because it indeed sends the wrong message: https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html. I'm guessing that's part of the reason you are seeing catch/kill on the lower Mam.
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lol.... If anyone retained a pink salmon on the Mamquam River downstream from the CN railway bridge and is being fined, I'd:
2) Take the ticket to court and point out how pathetic and ridiculous the current recreational salmon fishing regulations are presented online. It is unreadable, more often than not they contradicts each other (in this case, under Mamquam River no retention information for pink salmon is listed whereas it is permitted downstream from the CN bridge under Squamish River's section).
Take a screenshot too in case the website changes.
I threw a few into the Mam below the bridge on the way out tonight because the fish were rolling, but no bites. Lots of folks hucking spoons but the fish didn't seem too interested or were tired of dodging metal all day.
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lol.... If anyone retained a pink salmon on the Mamquam River downstream from the CN railway bridge and is being fined, I'd:
1) Pull up the Region 2 regulations (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html) and point out that it is indeed open for retention.
2) Take the ticket to court and point out how pathetic and ridiculous the current recreational salmon fishing regulations are presented online. It is unreadable, more often than not they contradicts each other (in this case, under Mamquam River no retention information for pink salmon is listed whereas it is permitted downstream from the CN bridge under Squamish River's section).
Agreed. A reasonable person would have looked up the "regulations" online and would have (rightfully) interpreted the retention of one pink per day on the Mamquam downstream of the CN rail bridge. This is DFO's problem for not keeping the information in the notice vs. the regulation table consistent.
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Up until 2001 or so pinks could be retained in the Mamquam below the Highway Bridge.
Yes, I recall that too. However, I think the last year was 2003. In 2005, there was no retention, followed by a closure of the river due to the chemical spill.
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Squamish River (including Powerhouse Channel)
downstream of the fishing boundary signs at the power line crossing approximately 1.5 km upstream of the confluence with the Cheakamus River, and the Mamquam River downstream of the CN rail bridge.
Coho Apr 01 to Mar 31 Bait ban.
Apr 01 to Mar 31 1 hatchery marked fish per day.
Chum Nov 1 to Nov 30 Bait ban.
Apr 01 to Mar 31 1 per day.
Pink July 15 until further notice 1 per day (bait ban). FN0646
REF: https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html
The fine tickets are wrong
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On that same region 2 web page, you can apparently retain 2 pinks on the Harrison but 0 on the Vedder. Do they mean 2 pinks in the Vedder as well or 0 on both rivers? ::)
Why do I have to guess what the real regulations are?
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thats wrong and confuses people in the actual fishery notice the lower mam is excluded and not open for retention, had a chat with the dfo officers about it and theyve been ticketing any and all mam retentions.
Did the officers realize the online synopsis explicitly permitted lower mamquam retention and still issued tickets anyways?
If so, that's such a low blow. The synopsis is the main public facing resource for the current regs. How can anyone be expected to examine the notices to look for discrepancies. Every enforcement officer I've ever met has been reasonable and I'm surprised they didn't just issue warnings in this situation which is clearly a DFO screw up...
If anyone got dinged by this, I hope they find some way to prove the online synopsis said what it currently states. If they ever get around to updating it, that could be lost to history.
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Why are people certain tickets were issued for killing pinks? Maybe some of these people didn't have a salmon stamp on their Provincial License or maybe they lacked a license. It's been a long time since I witnessed such a sweep but the most common citation during such publicized bonanzas is for fishing without a valid license. Many people think they don't have to bother since it's just one afternoon out with their brother in law etc.
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This^^^
I saw 3 CO's by their truck at No Name rd. I asked them whats the deal with the Mamquam with regard to fishing below the bridge as I thought that was closed. They told me that it was open. They told me most of the tickets they were giving was for either no license or fishing with barbed hooks, a few were issued to people that kept more than 1 fish....
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Walked by a guy trying to explain to a CO why a salt water license was ok on the Mamquam bar. I didn't bother to stop and see how it turned out.
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Took home a chrome male yesterday and found the meat to be much redder than previous years. Anybody else finding this?
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Anecdotally it sounds like more Fraser river pinks are being caught up and down the coast this year compared to 2017 so maybe a bit of hope.
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Took home a chrome male yesterday and found the meat to be much redder than previous years. Anybody else finding this?
Like this? They are pretty fresh compared to Fraser/Vedder pinks usually.
(https://i.imgur.com/U0YmIJQ.jpg)
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Took home a chrome male yesterday and found the meat to be much redder than previous years. Anybody else finding this?
Did you ice it as soon as you caught it? Pinks tend to change colour very quickly if the aren’t handled very precisely. I have even had fillets change colour from deep orange to grey / pink in less than an hour if left on ice but exposed to air/oxygen. Best bet is to ice then freeze as quick as possible to preserve the colour.
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Lime green/ key lime was the color for today 8), for some reason I couldn't get a single pink to take my fly a little after 9am, but they were still hitting spoons really hard so I borrowed a buddy's casting setup and hucked some metal for a bit. Two casts and bam! o-O I wonder what the reason would be behind this? the sound and action of the spoon in the water vs a small fly?
Right now it's such a gamble as to hooking into a fresh or a slightly older fish, but the chrome ones are giving a good fight this year.
As to the flesh of the pinks this year, I'd say they are really good this year with a nice orange to an orange-ish with a slight red hue.
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No more retention
FN0785-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Pink - Region 2 - Squamish - Closure effective August 13, 2019
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224322&ID=all
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Sad to see this amazing run managed to the current state
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I wonder how they determined the in-season assessments. Creel Survey, or just looked at the spawning grounds? I guess pinks aren't important enough for DFO to spend that much money enhancing it.
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I wonder how they determined the in-season assessments. Creel Survey, or just looked at the spawning grounds? I guess pinks aren't important enough for DFO to spend that much money enhancing it.
I wish there was more data online for this system as well.
I was briefly talking to a guy on the train bridge last night that was warning people of the retention closure. He said they are only expecting ~100,000 fish this year. To put this in perspective, 2017 was ~300,000, and one of the record years was ~4,000,000 in 2013 or 2015. No actual proof of this, thats just what he told me and he seemed knowledgeable.
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Sad to see this amazing run managed to the current state
this run has not been managed into the ground.
The poor return this year is all because of the numerous high water floods on the squamish system in the Fall of 2017 after the pinks spawned that year.
Many times the river became high enough to move the gravel around. In the spring of 2018 there was very few smolts leaving the system and DFO employees doing fry/smolt enumeration that year predicted the return that we are seeing this year.
One could have hoped for better ocean survival to help with the return size but it didn't happen.
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this run has not been managed into the ground.
The poor return this year is all because of the numerous high water floods on the squamish system in the Fall of 2017 after the pinks spawned that year.
Many times the river became high enough to move the gravel around. In the spring of 2018 there was very few smolts leaving the system and DFO employees doing fry/smolt enumeration that year predicted the return that we are seeing this year.
One could have hoped for better ocean survival to help with the return size but it didn't happen.
If they had all that knowledge then why did they open retention in the first place. Could have been thousands of fish killed.
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This run is under complete control of the squamish nation. It is what it is.
To top it off it sounds like its now a complete gong show as well, I heard DFO seized over 20 fishing rods in one sweep. Don't deserve to have it open with that kind of compliance.
pathetic really, Try and behave the next cycle
As others have pointed out the squamish is nowhere near what it used to be. I was talking to an old timer there use to be 700 boats that would fish in the vancouver sun classic derby. Some 40 pound Chinook would get weighed in and some of those fish were destined for the Squamish.
All sectors have played a roll in destroying this gem
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To top it off it sounds like its now a complete gong show as well, I heard DFO seized over 20 fishing rods in one sweep. Don't deserve to have it open with that kind of compliance.
I suppose the sudden word the run 'was in' lead to this - both the lack of compliance and the sweep?
People seem reluctant to acknowledge problems with the rec sector bonanza mentality while highlighting the sins of the other 2 sectors. At least the Squamish pink sport fishery is locally concentrated so it is easy to monitor and any damage limited.
I was on the river Monday. It seemed clear to me the return is lower than 2017, which was very much lower than 2015 which was less than stellar following a few excellent cycles.
Yes the Squamish isn't what it once was but the big decline started at least as far back in the 70s. Coho and chinook started to decline back then. Pinks all but disappeared but experienced quite a recovery in the last 20 to 30 years. The poor returns of the last few cycles match a BC wide decline plus in river issues. Declines in the chum stocks there have a similar pattern.
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I guess pinks aren't important enough for DFO to spend that much money enhancing it.
You guess wrong. Stop guessing and read. Even a cursory Google search would tell you 1) what salmon enhancement projects DFO funds. Some projects have directly benefited pink salmon 2) why chum salmon enhancement is prioritized over pink salmon enhancement
Reside1 and wildmanyeah echo my comments. Poor returns aren't the fault of DFO.
All sectors have played a roll in destroying this gem
Amen. Logging practices, high water events (caused by logging practices), diking, hydroelectric reservoirs, caustic soda spills to name a few.
But, of course, DFO is responsible to fix all that so I can have pink salmon in my freezer.
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Yes, i remember that very high return year where it was around 3-4million fish.Was only a couple of cycles ago.
But did they leave it alone so to improve future interest? NO! Commercial opening in the howe sound and vacuumed a huge proponent
Nets kill runs via mismanagement once again!
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The run is not enumerated in any way. There is no test fishery to compare to the PSC test fisheries for the Fraser. If you check Fraser fry abundance it varies by a factor of 5 or more from cycle to cycle
Still the river was loaded with fish in 2013 contrary to the idea that the fish were all 'hoovered' by commercial boats. There is no way 4 million returned in 2015 and the numbers off the beaches in '15 did not compare to 2013.
The biggest factor in adult abundance is fry production and ocean survival. Very big returns from modest previous cycle escapements are common. Numbers of prior spawners and extent of commercial harvest don't correlate well with subsequent returns.
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Going back to the confusing regulations I have a hunch that it had to do with in past years when open they'd have it as Mamquam: 1 pink per day below the CN bridge and no retention above and then also have Squamish: 1 pink per day. It caused a grey area where guys would go to Squamish, bonk 1 and move a few feet to the Mamquam and bonk another. Some guys would even just bonk two on Squamish and just say one came from Mamquam and vice versa and it was tough for officers to enforce.
By putting the 1.5km downstream of the CN bridge under the Squamish it cleared up that grey area. What they should have added was have Mamquam: No retention above the bridge and see Squamish for regulations below the bridge.
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Reside1 and wildmanyeah echo my comments. Poor returns aren't the fault of DFO.
Amen. Logging practices, high water events (caused by logging practices), diking, hydroelectric reservoirs, caustic soda spills to name a few.
But, of course, DFO is responsible to fix all that so I can have pink salmon in my freezer.
High water events are also associated with Climate change and is declining ocean productivity. Other folks have alluded to over production of salmon farming operations in Alaska and Siberia though both have had abundant wild stocks which may also reduce ocean productivity.
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And people are still trying to retain pinks today, had to tell some people that there is no retention but luckily it was all civil.
One guy was doubting me and a buddy's claim that there was no retention, showed him the notice and even said that he could look on social media like FWR to find out, guy basically spouted some stuff about calling DFO, checking the website this morning (even though he doesn't know the link to the fisheries notices) and how local borns here (Canadians) are trying to lie to him... not sure what he meant by that comment.
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And people are still trying to retain pinks today, had to tell some people that there is no retention but luckily it was all civil.
...checking the website this morning (even though he doesn't know the link to the fisheries notices)
FWIW, the online synopsis was not updated until sometime this afternoon. If he checked in the morning before hitting the road, he would have legitimately thought retention was still open...
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FWIW, the online synopsis was not updated until sometime this afternoon. If he checked in the morning before hitting the road, he would have legitimately thought retention was still open...
Usually this is the good time for COs to issue ticket. Didn't they show up?
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FWIW, the online synopsis was not updated until sometime this afternoon. If he checked in the morning before hitting the road, he would have legitimately thought retention was still open...
With the amount of social media (facebook, twitter and ect) information like this notice has been posted since yesterday and people should keep an eye on any update reguarding so, it's not to say that I wouldn't have blamed him if no one told him and he kept a fish, but a fair number of people today could be heard saying "Hey, you aren't allowed to keep any pinks."
Honestly, DFO really need a better system to show notices when they do changes, but at the same time we have lots of social media posting info so it kinda makes it hard to play the game of "well I didn't know" Sort of like a double edged sword if you ask me.
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Lost my cell phone at the parking lot at the townhouse today (Friday). If anyone found it, please let me know here and I can provide a reward of $50 for the return. Thanks.
By the way, fishing at FC is slowing down tremendously compared to a few days ago.