Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: MetalAndFeathers on May 30, 2019, 09:47:36 PM
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Stopped at the Vedder on my way to the interior to toss a nymph around for a bit and to my surprise I caught a small bass! It was around 8 inches long and wiggled out of my hands before I could snap a pic but I'm 100% sure it was a bass... unless squawfish have turned green and got spines :o Anyone know how long bass have been In there? Never heard of em in the vedder before
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Where on the Vedder?
Smallmouth bass are pretty established now in Cultus Lake so it wouldn't be surprising to see them coming down into the river. Sumas River is full of largemouth bass as well and you will encounter them in the lower section of the canal.
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Where on the Vedder?
Smallmouth bass are pretty established now in Cultus Lake so it wouldn't be surprising to see them coming down into the river. Sumas River is full of largemouth bass as well and you will encounter them in the lower section of the canal.
Learn something new every day, I got it just down from the crossing on the Yarrow side
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Cultus lake has turned into a horrible nursery for Sockeye, Should just declare them extinct and move on.
Its hopeless
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wildman, are you going to say that every time Cultus is mentioned?
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wildman, are you going to say that every time Cultus is mentioned?
Not if some good news come out of cultus lol
Maybe if the goverment stopped giving us BS hadounts about cultus lake sockeye evey meeting http://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/2019%20Fraser%20Sockeye%20Forecast.pdf
The amount of funding spent on cultus lake sockeye is probably best spent elsewhere.
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The amount of funding spent on cultus lake sockeye is probably best spent elsewhere.
Matt, I hate to say this because a lot of me is in this stock, but I agree. Despite spending millions of $$ on these fish, they are not responding; only a very few wild Cultus sockeye remain and what few fish return are of hatchery origin.
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Matt, I hate to say this because a lot of me is in this stock, but I agree. Despite spending millions of $$ on these fish, they are not responding; only a very few wild Cultus sockeye remain and what few fish return are of hatchery origin.
I gotta wonder what % of these fish are bonked in the Vedder because anglers see a clipped adipose and think coho. It is possible to clip another fin . . .
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I gotta wonder what % of these fish are bonked in the Vedder because anglers see a clipped adipose and think coho. It is possible to clip another fin . . .
I am not an expert on this stock but I think stuff like that impact but by no means the smoking gun. Off course taking the last few sockeye that make it back does have huge impact.
Think I read somewhere that Wild Cultus lake sockeye survival from the Fry to smolt stage is like 2%. Then you have to think that at best the ocean survival of those smolts is like 4%. So you start off with 10,000 fry, 200 smolts leave the lake, 8 sockeye return to the river. The exploitation rate they are trying to get down to 20%. so 2 die to fishing exploitation and your left with 6 fish left at the cultus lake fence.
The thing that pains me is this stock from what I have read is genetically very distinct. The sockeye can be in like 22C water and show almost no signs of distress.
For this fish to recover its like, Remove all the development from around the lake, Stop all fishing for sockeye in the ocean and river during there migration, remove invasive plants from the lake, remove predators from the lake.
The laundry list is so unattainable for managers that they are like okay lets use hatchery to try to keep them alive as long as possible and hope that ocean survival rates return to like 10%.
I could be way off but it that's my interpretation of the whole thing.
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how many female sockeye does it take to produce 10,000 fry?
"All the predators" would include cutthroat and bull trout and either species can reach several pounds in Cultus. Current regulations requires trout and char over 50cm be released.
The most likely issue with the lake is over use by people & the resulting decline in water quality. Maybe we should remove the people from the environment & restrict any subsequent use to be a low impact as possible?
Much less likely to happen than removing all the predators. Illustrates why there is such declines. Everyone pays mouth service to the issues but is unwilling to make real sacrifices to make a difference.
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I gotta wonder what % of these fish are bonked in the Vedder because anglers see a clipped adipose and think coho. It is possible to clip another fin . . .
CJ, sorry for the tardy response. Much consideration was given to what mark would be appropriate for Cultus sockeye, and the decision came down to what was the least stressful and had the lower mortality associated with handling. A mark readily seen by anglers was also necessary; the standard adipose clip met these criteria and DFO already had the equipment, facilities, and skilled personnel to do the job.
For sure, Cultus sockeye have been mistakenly killed by anglers who mis- identified them as hatchery coho but other factors like historic over fishing, degradation of spawning habitat, and early freshwater entry resulting in increased pathogen and parasite loading had a far greater impact on the declivity of these fish.
Here is a bit more info on this stock and the recovery efforts to date.
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/habitat/cultus/index-eng.html
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If it was not for the efforts of the hard working people that kept this stock a live its would of suffered the same fate as sakinaw lake sockeye.
how many female sockeye does it take to produce 10,000 fry?
"All the predators" would include cutthroat and bull trout and either species can reach several pounds in Cultus. Current regulations requires trout and char over 50cm be released.
The most likely issue with the lake is over use by people & the resulting decline in water quality. Maybe we should remove the people from the environment & restrict any subsequent use to be a low impact as possible?
Much less likely to happen than removing all the predators. Illustrates why there is such declines. Everyone pays mouth service to the issues but is unwilling to make real sacrifices to make a difference.
In sure the actually numbers are available somewhere Ralph if you want to dig into it.
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how many female sockeye does it take to produce 10,000 fry?
"All the predators" would include cutthroat and bull trout and either species can reach several pounds in Cultus. Current regulations requires trout and char over 50cm be released.
The most likely issue with the lake is over use by people & the resulting decline in water quality. Maybe we should remove the people from the environment & restrict any subsequent use to be a low impact as possible?
Much less likely to happen than removing all the predators. Illustrates why there is such declines. Everyone pays mouth service to the issues but is unwilling to make real sacrifices to make a difference.
Perhaps the simplest way to lower mortality from predators would be to ban outdoor lights along the lake.
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Perhaps the simplest way to lower mortality from predators would be to ban outdoor lights along the lake.
Light pollution is a factor, the lake urbanization is one of the big factors.
The greatest thing about cultus lake is that its been studied for the last 100 years and perhaps that's a reason to keep caring about this stock as we have such a historic background.
https://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/virtual_sara/files/cosewic/sr_cultus_sockeye_salmon_e.pdf
Edit:
latest science https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40761253.pdf
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If it was not for the efforts of the hard working people that kept this stock a live its would of suffered the same fate as sakinaw lake sockeye.
...and your point is?
I wasn't talking about 'the the efforts of the hard working people that kept this stock a live' as once again you divert to straw man arguments and putting words in my mouth.
Our society isn't willing to give up what is needed to save this salmon stock or moist others for that matter. That's the point.
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...and your point is?
I wasn't talking about 'the the efforts of the hard working people that kept this stock a live' as once again you divert to straw man arguments and putting words in my mouth.
that was a general comment not directed at you. More directed at my own comments and thoughts actually as a reason to keep going with the hatchery enhancement of this stock.
Our society isn't willing to give up what is needed to save this salmon stock or moist others for that matter. That's the point.
Yes and that is my original point why spend money on them when there is no hope of changing the root causes this stock faces. Not to mention we are still over fishing this stock in 2010 and 2014 over 50% of the returns were caught in fisheries.
So why bother putting out all the science year after year? spending tones of money and man hours on it?
Its up for another SARA review too in the the next few years why bother?
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http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/ResDocs-DocRech/2019/2019_011-eng.pdf
Thirteen alien freshwater fish species have established populations within the Fraser River
drainage and there is always the concern that a new species may become established that
impacts native salmonids. Brown trout (Salmo trutta), a predator of juvenile salmon, were
introduced to the Cowichan River more than 80 years ago. The majority of the species currently
occupying habitats within the lower mainland appear to pose little to no risk to migrating
salmonids. However, three spiny rayed fish: Largemouth Bass (Micropterus salmoides),
Smallmouth Bass (M. dolomieu), and Yellow Perch (Perca flavescens), are considered a threat
to Fraser River Chinook Salmon. A risk assessment completed in 2009 indicated the risk that
these invasive fin fish represented to native species was high (DFO 2010b). Their British
Columbia distribution was described by Runciman and Leaf (2009).
Largemouth Bass is a voracious piscivore that will consume salmonid juveniles (Brown et al.
2009b). To date they have not become established in the interior Fraser basin, but they now
inhabit the mouths of tributary streams, backwaters, and sloughs throughout the lower Fraser
River. A fish-wheel operating in the main Fraser River above Misson B.C. in 2009-10 caught 32
Largemouth Bass (G. Cronkite, DFO, Nanaimo, BC, pers. comm.), so they are known to utilize
the main river. Although the number of bass residing within the lower Fraser River is unknown,
the species is well established and appears to be thriving. Largemouth Bass have the potential
to consume large numbers of juvenile Chinook as they migrate to sea, thus impacting
productivity of interior Fraser River Chinook CUs. Largemouth Bass have also been formally
identified as a threat to native fish species (DFO 2011).
Smallmouth Bass reside in the littoral zone of lakes and slower moving rivers (Brown et al.
2009c). They are also piscivorous and can have a significant impact on native communities
through predation on small-bodied fish, and are considered to be a threat to native species
(Tovey et al. 2008; DFO 2010c). There is considerable literature that demonstrates that
Smallmouth Bass prey on juvenile Chinook although the ultimate effect on salmonid abundance
varies (Brown et al. 2009c; Counihan et al. 2012). In 2006, Smallmouth Bass were found in
Beaver Creek, a tributary of the Quesnel River (L.-M. Herborg, Province of British Columbia,
Victoria, B.C., pers. comm.). The Province of BC has initiated and maintains an active control
program since 2007 (L.-M. Herborg, Province of British Columbia, Victoria, B.C., pers. comm.);
however, it is likely Smallmouth Bass will eventually move downstream into the Quesnel River.
They will ultimately reduce Chinook productivity in the Quesnel drainage through predation and
may put at risk Fraser Chinook in that system (Tovey et al. 2008; DFO 2010c).
Yellow Perch is a highly adaptable species that can utilize a wide range of habitats (Brown et al
2009a). They are considered to be lacustrine-limnetic although in larger lakes, they utilize the
littoral zone. Perch juveniles tend to bottom-feed, and larger perch will consume fish eggs and
fish (Brown et al. 2009a). When introduced into small lakes, Yellow Perch can have severe
impacts on native fish species, largely as a result of competition for food (Bradford et al. 2008;
Brown et al. 2009a). Its impact in larger lakes may be less severe, though less information is
available. Competition and predation will occur where habitat utilization overlaps, especially lake
edge habitat. Spiny ray species (i.e. Yellow Perch) have the potential to dominate fish
assemblages, through both predation and interspecies competition (Brown et al. 2009a). Yellow
Perch were found in small lakes bordering Shuswap and Adams Lake in 1996 (Runciman and
Leaf 2009). Nine small interior lakes were rotenone treated from 2008-10 to eradicate the dense
populations of Yellow Perch that had developed (L.-M. Herborg, Province of British Columbia,
Victoria, B.C., pers. comm.). Yellow Perch were captured in Adams Lake in 2008 and spring
2009, during a spiny ray fish inventory program (Lynda Ritchie, DFO, Kamloops, B.C., pers.
comm.). The likely source of introduction was from an established population in Forest Lake
which is connected to Adams Lake via Sinmax Creek. Another population of Yellow Perch was
found in Rosemond Lake which is directly connected to Mara Lake that drains into Shuswap
Lake in January 2013 (Andrew Klassen, Province of British Columbia, Victoria, B.C., pers.
comm.). There is high risk regarding the possible spread in range and potential of these
introduced fish to impact native fish populations, including interior Chinook Salmon within the
Thompson River system (DFO 2010b). Once these invasive species redistribute and enter into
larger water bodies such as Shuswap Lake, they put all fish species at risk and are very difficult
to eliminate. Although they may not cause extinction, they will alter natural patterns of species
diversity and reduce native fish productivity
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Any tips on targeting the bass in Cultus lake ? I have never fished for bass before but I spend most of my summer at Cultus Lake. Thought it might be fun to catch a few as well as rid the lake of a few. Rod you seem to have some knowledge about these fish, lures, locations ?
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The easiest way to catch bass honestly is just with bait. We used to do really well by fishing with deli shrimp... It was one fish after another.
Spinners tossed into structured waters work well too. Dropshotting grubs, dragging a tubebait are all fun ways to catch them.
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Thanks for tips
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Growing up back east, on still water, we used to have a ton of fun using surface lures like poppers and wigglers. It's awesome to see a bucketmouth come up and inhale the plug. Like what Rod said, you can do really well in structure, especially downed tress or lily pads.
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I remember fishing for bass in Ontario and using crickets and small frogs,
Once in awhile we might have used a red headed plug.
This is from the late 50s...
That being being said in my opinion bass do not belong in the Vedder or in Cultus lake.
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I haven't heard that the bass in Cultus are in fishable numbers just that they are there.
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There were some caught last year and the year before. I also know that a local diver who services anchor buoys in the lake has seen a few so I guess I'll find out.
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Fisheries did a swim count last year and counted over 2000 bass with some in the 5-6 lb range
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They are in there. I know two guys that go there specially for the Bass and do quite well. I've caught bass in Devils lake in Mission as well and I've seen pictures of Bass in Stave lake. The popular it gets the more people will move them around. I feel that in 10 years from now every lake in the valley will have them. Maybe the whole province. It's becoming an issue in the Cariboo too. I dont get it. I think there needs to be more enforcement and if someone is caught they need to seize their car and make life extremely difficult to send a message that it's not ok.
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Can you imagine how much increased enforcement would be required. You'd need someone stationed at every waterbody 24/7 to even have a chance at catching someone illegally introducing.
The theoretical penalties are already very high, and I think there is even a reward for reports leading to busting someone. Serious question though, has anyone ever been charged for that? It sounds like a nearly impossible thing to prevent if some dope is determined to do it...
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There population is not increasing because of introduction its increasing because the climate is becoming for favorable to them. Not saying the bucket brigade is not a problem but not one any amount of enforcement hours are going to solve.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-river-skating-rink-1.3926794
Largemouth Bass is a voracious piscivore that will consume salmonid juveniles (Brown et al.
2009b). To date they have not become established in the interior Fraser basin, but they now
inhabit the mouths of tributary streams, backwaters, and sloughs throughout the lower Fraser
River. A fish-wheel operating in the main Fraser River above Misson B.C. in 2009-10 caught 32
Largemouth Bass (G. Cronkite, DFO, Nanaimo, BC, pers. comm.), so they are known to utilize
the main river. Although the number of bass residing within the lower Fraser River is unknown,
the species is well established and appears to be thriving. Largemouth Bass have the potential
to consume large numbers of juvenile Chinook as they migrate to sea, thus impacting
productivity of interior Fraser River Chinook CUs. Largemouth Bass have also been formally
identified as a threat to native fish species (DFO 2011).
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I thought the bass in Cultus were Smallmouths
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I always enjoy a laugh when pro Bass folks says it's because of climate change. People are actively transporting Bass. It's an epic problem. There should be zero tolerance or excuses for deliberately transporting invasive species
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Fisheries did a swim count last year and counted over 2000 bass with some in the 5-6 lb range
5-6 lbers in Cultus ! really ?
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3lb was was what was reported to me from the swim last year. It was four before they became active this year. ;) A 5 or 6lb fish would be a 20 year old fish....
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how does one weigh a fish while swimming?
Having seen trout etc while skin diving - they 'look' bigger in the water than out. The diving mask may introduce some distortion.
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It's called an estimate.
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why not kill the bass while counting. 4lb bass can reproduce thousands little fish in one year
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It's called an estimate.
Few people can eye ball a fish and make a near accurate assessment of weight. Over estimates are most common. My thought was doing it underwater makes that more likely.
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Fished Cultus today, my partner caught 2 bass. 25 and 28 cm.
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Fished Cultus today, my partner caught 2 bass. 25 and 28 cm.
Were they 25 and 28 cm underwater, or just when you got them in the boat?
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It's my understanding there are 3 year classes of Smallmouth bass in Cultus, the largest being 3 years old, app. 25 cm. Whoever transplanted these fish knew exactly what they were doing and picked the perfect time for success. These bass will find plenty of food and will fill the niche left by pikeminnow removals. They are definitely here to stay and imo, will soon compete with Largemouth bass in the newly created lower river wetlands.
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Cultus Lake sockeye is a waste of money.
As much as we like to think helping the sockeye will result in a healthy population it won't.
With all the development happening around Cultus lake they are doomed.
You can't have a recreational lake and sockeye salmon.
Imagine all the gold fish that will be released into the lake now that every Tom, Dick and Harry has a cottage on the lake.
Are there any lakes with sustainable populations of Sockeye close to urban areas?
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Cultus Lake sockeye is a waste of money.
As much as we like to think helping the sockeye will result in a healthy population it won't.
With all the development happening around Cultus lake they are doomed.
You can't have a recreational lake and sockeye salmon.
Imagine all the gold fish that will be released into the lake now that every Tom, Dick and Harry has a cottage on the lake.
Are there any lakes with sustainable populations of Sockeye close to urban areas?
Lake Washington. The numbers are in decline but compared to Cultus, the Washington lake Sockeye run is big.
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Lake Washington. The numbers are in decline but compared to Cultus, the Washington lake Sockeye run is big.
Unfortunately not a good example. The Lake Washington fish are most likely entirely non-native, and ironically some transplants were made from Cultus Lake to Lake Washington in the 1940s and 50s, though it appears that the fish that survived are of Baker Lake origin. http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf (http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf)
Kokanee may have been native to Lake Washington/Lake Sammamish, but are now nearly extinct. The last year that more than single digits of sockeye returned to Issaquah Creek was 2013. The Cedar Rivery Hatchery has been averaging 10% of their brood stock goal for years. In short, returns here are dismal, in spite of being heavily enhanced and non-native.
Are any of the sockeye producing lakes in the Somass system similar to Cultus in terms of recreational use and development?
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Unfortunately not a good example. The Lake Washington fish are most likely entirely non-native, and ironically some transplants were made from Cultus Lake to Lake Washington in the 1940s and 50s, though it appears that the fish that survived are of Baker Lake origin. http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf (http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf)
Kokanee may have been native to Lake Washington/Lake Sammamish, but are now nearly extinct. The last year that more than single digits of sockeye returned to Issaquah Creek was 2013. The Cedar Rivery Hatchery has been averaging 10% of their brood stock goal for years. In short, returns here are dismal, in spite of being heavily enhanced and non-native.
Are any of the sockeye producing lakes in the Somass system similar to Cultus in terms of recreational use and development?
I highly doubt there is anything similar to Cultus on the Island. It's just a numbers game (human population numbers).
Cultus Lake is a f'n zoo.
Now I don't mind people having a lake to take their kids to pee, but we should be realistic and focus on fish populations that may have a future in the mid term.
Cultus doesn't, imo.
Frankly I would close Sweltzer creek with a net to prevent crap from Cultus coming down to the Chilliwack.
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Unfortunately not a good example. The Lake Washington fish are most likely entirely non-native, and ironically some transplants were made from Cultus Lake to Lake Washington in the 1940s and 50s, though it appears that the fish that survived are of Baker Lake origin. http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf (http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/eriq/writings/eric_lkwash_ext_abst.pdf)
Kokanee may have been native to Lake Washington/Lake Sammamish, but are now nearly extinct. The last year that more than single digits of sockeye returned to Issaquah Creek was 2013. The Cedar Rivery Hatchery has been averaging 10% of their brood stock goal for years. In short, returns here are dismal, in spite of being heavily enhanced and non-native.
Are any of the sockeye producing lakes in the Somass system similar to Cultus in terms of recreational use and development?
He just asked for an example. He did say native. I missed the .ark on that one. It's the closest lake system to an urban environment that I know of. I'm sure there are some people furiously googling away for one as I type
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You can't have a recreational lake and sockeye salmon.
Are there any lakes with sustainable populations of Sockeye close to urban areas?
Would Shuswap and Osoyoos lakes fit the bill?
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Were any bass caught during the pikeminnow derby this year ?
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Yes.
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Sockeye and kokanee populations in Shuswap and Osoyoos are stream spawners. Cultus I believe is primarily in lake beach spawners.
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Sockeye and kokanee populations in Shuswap and Osoyoos are stream spawners. Cultus I believe is primarily in lake beach spawners.
I believe I've heard from a friend who fishes Shuswap that they are also lake spawners.
Maybe a mixed bunch.
I don't know how they decide where to spawn
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I don't know how they decide where to spawn
They each pull a number when they enter the lake and the number corresponds to a spawning location; it's a lottery. LOL!
Seriously though most Shuswap sockeye spawn in a stream; Adams, Seymour River, Eagle River Shuswap,... even the Salmon have a sockeye spawning run. Most salmon regardless of species return to the stream they were born in. It's somewhere on the order of 90%+ for the most part.
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They each pull a number when they enter the lake and the number corresponds to a spawning location; it's a lottery. LOL!
Seriously though most Shuswap sockeye spawn in a stream; Adams, Seymour River, Eagle River Shuswap,... even the Salmon have a sockeye spawning run. Most salmon regardless of species return to the stream they were born in. It's somewhere on the order of 90%+ for the most part.
I was just reading some info and I think you are right. Shuswap are river spawners, what my friend probably saw was dead fish and he assumed they spawned there but they washed downstream most likely.
I wonder when there is a stream upstream of the lake they spawn in the stream and when there is not, they spawn in the lake.
But I can't find any info about that.
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I don't know how they decide where to spawn.
I wonder when there is a stream upstream of the lake they spawn in the stream and when there is not, they spawn in the lake.
Each "run" of sockeye has a unique genetic code specific to its watershed that allows it to flourish.
For example it is generally true that sockeye spawn in a river and the newly hatched fry migrate downstream to rear in a nursery lake for a year before migrating to marine waters. However, take, for example, Weaver Creek sockeye. The newly hatched fry migrate downstream through Weaver Creek and Morris Creek to the Harrison River, hang a left, and migrate UPSTREAM to rear in Harrison Lake. Or the sockeye that spawn in the Harrison River Rapids. The fry of that spawn migrate the Fraser River estuary shortly after hatching and actually rear in the estuary, not a lake. I'm sure there are many other examples that don't fit the norm. For example, lake spawning sockeye in Cultus that Ralph referrred to. (Interestingly, I also read that Harrison Rapids sockeye first migrate up to Harrison Lake and spend some in the depths of the lower lake before dropping back to the river to spawn)
In my dog eared copy of "The Run of the River" author Mark Hume writes about how this unique genetic code makes it difficult for biologists to re-introduce sockeye into a system after it has been extirpated. His example is the sockeye of the Upper Adams River. The Upper Adams had a massive run of sockeye that was extinct by the early 1950's. From the mid 1950's to the 1980's, biologists transplanted millions upon millions of eggs from similar systems, with negligible adult returns. He wrote "In the Upper Adams, biologists are working to rebuild a system that was completely wiped out. All the sockeye stocks of the Upper Adams are extinct. The Fraser River slides and the logging flash-dam had destroyed not just a run of salmon, but a unique genetic code. The code to unlock the timing of Adams Lake had been erased from nature's memory bank"
He also writes about the sockeye of Karluk Lake in Alaska where biologists were trying to rebuild a run that was destroyed by overfishing, from 5M+ in the 1880's to 0.5M in the 1960s. After decades of rebuilding failure, they realized that the key wasn't putting more fish on the spawning grounds, but rather the key lay in Karluk Lake itself and the timing of fry emergence. They learned that Karluk stock was comprised of 20 separate groups of sockeye "The groups spawned at different times and the timing of the fry emergence was perfectly synchronized to the forage production in the lake" Overfishing had reduced these 20 groups to just 3 or 4 and "enhancement efforts had concentrated propagating those groups. The result was that the fry arrived in the lake in a few great lumps causing over competition for food at some times and leaving the lake lightly used at others. The fish were out of synch with the lake and the result was poor survival for fry"
In the 1980's the Upper Adams biologists switched to transplanting stocks from the nearby Momich-Cayenne system "hoping to find fish that were similar enough to re-establish an Upper Adams genetic code" Very modest returns resulted and a DFO biologist noted "If success is measured by the creation of even a small population, adapted to Adams Lake watershed environment and capable of providing seed for further expansion, then these transplants were successful. The seeming unsuccessful transplants attempts in early years may have been important in establishing a genetic base from which survival can be enhanced..."
On a side note, I quickly reviewed a 2003 paper on the Upper Adams, and to put it simply, the jury was still out. I couldn't find anything more recent.
So, I went WAY overboard in my reply (like Spawn Sack overboard :)) but, to summarize, spawning is determined by a unique genetic code for a particular watershed.
At the very least, I enjoyed reading The Run of the River again :)
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Good post clarki.
Buck and I were involved in those Upper Adams transplants, and they were successful. Unfortunately, Upper Adams sockeye co -migrate with other summer runs, like the much more abundant Quesnel and Chilko stocks. I don't remember the year but 30k were expected back to the UA; they were decimated in the mixed stock commercial fishery and to my knowledge, never recovered.
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Thanks clarki for the detailed reply.
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Would Shuswap and Osoyoos lakes fit the bill?
Kind of, with some differences. Shuswap is a large lake, transient for most salmon and it's not that busy. In some spots it's busy but nothing compared to Cultus.
Osoyoos is probably a better example, although the lake is 5 times bigger than Cultus.
The salmon have returned in good numbers after extinction.
Is it a success? We will see.
Will it ever be a salmon run without hatcheries pumping fish into it?
Probably not. Osoyoos lake is warm too.
Cultus is a pond really and its located an hour drive from the zoo.
I am skeptical that Cultus sockeye will ever be a thing.
But hope I'm wrong.
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I don't think the Ok salmon were ever extinct though they had dropped below 2,000 adults in the 90s. The hatchery was opened in 2014 and is intended to extend the range of the fish into Skaha and above. At this point there can't be more than a year class or so of adult returns. Most of the recovery happened before that and had to do with in stream improvements and allowing salmon to ascend into Vaseaux Lake and above.
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good year for bass fishing?
(https://i.imgur.com/EaHKpci.png)
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Nothing I like more than seeing a big o' pile of dead BC bass and pumpkinseed. Not thrilled to see a couple of NPM in the mix though...
The title indicates he caught these in Suicide Creek, I'd be interested to know if in the stream itself, in Nicomen Slough, or in the sloughs/streams immediately west of Suicide/Norrish that hook into Hatzic.
Not wanting to steal his honeyhole, just to add my bass culling prowess :)
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Are talking about Norrish here?
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many folks refer to that access spot off the Hwy#7 as Suicide (Norrish) Creek. I doubt bass would move into the creek itself. That LM bass at the top of the photo looks to be a good size as IME the PMs don't normally get the coloration until they are over 12 inches.
Everybody wants to slaughter bass ... what about carp? In parts of the US flyfishing for carp has just exploded in popularity. Carp are invasive and they 'root' for food creating quite a mess and loads of turbidity. I think the reg that allowed bow fishing for carp was repealed in the last synopsis. Scared too many of us snowflakes off the slough banks.
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Are talking about Norrish here?
Comments said he caught them in the creek Norrish not the slough
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Comments said he caught them in the creek Norrish not the slough
Wow that will be bad.
I've seen bass caught in the slough, but never in the creek.
I suppose they could have moved up.
But norrish doesn't have a ton of water and it's not a stable flow.
I'm surprised they would go up there.
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if they do go up there, they would find little to eat and would be flushed out and die with the first big flood come late fall. I'd bet they were taken where the creek enters the slough.
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Wow Colin is not retired yet
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region2.html?
Freshwater Fishing Regulations
FRESHWATER FISHERY NOTICE
In-Season Regulation Changes
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Invasive Bass Presence in Cultus Lake
The Province has received two reports of invasive bass caught in Cultus Lake since the end of May 2018. Given that bass are an aggressive piscivore (preys on other fish species), we are concerned that these fish may potentially impact the two listed species in Cultus Lake (sockeye salmon and pygmy sculpin). As such, we are asking for angler assistance to:
Provide any information related to the presence of bass in Cultus Lake;
Confirm species (large vs. smallmouth bass); and
If you catch a bass, DO NOT return it to the water. Instead, please record, report, and provide fish specimen captures to the staff listed below.
Confirmation of species and extent of distribution are key at this point. Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Please see the Smallmouth Bass factsheet here and Largemouth Bass factsheet here for more information on these invasive species. Please contact us if you have any questions or concerns.
Contact: Colin Schwindt, FLNRORD Senior Aquatic Biologist, South Coast Region.
Phone: 604-586-4400
Email: Colin.Schwindt@gov.bc.ca or FLNRORD Fish and Aquatic Wildlife Mailbox: SCFishandAquaticWildlife@gov.bc.ca
NOTE: Invasive species encounters can also be reported through the Report-Invasives BC phone app or the BC Conservation Officer Services Hotline (RAPP line): 1-877-952-7277. Movement of live fish is illegal and to report any violations, such as suspected illegal introductions of fish, please contact the RAPP line.
In-season changes current to August 14, 2019
NOTE: These changes are IN ADDITION TO the published regulations unless noted otherwise here. Be sure to check the published regulations as found in the online version of the 2019-2021 Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis.
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Note:
No fishing for trout in the main stem of the Fraser effective TOMORROW
this is to get around the "I'm fishing for trout" bar fishing loophole...
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Note:
No fishing for trout in the main stem of the Fraser effective TOMORROW
this is to get around the "I'm fishing for trout" bar fishing loophole...
Think its part of the Thompson steel head protection, tho i thought it was suppose to not come into effect until late september.
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Note:
No fishing for trout in the main stem of the Fraser effective TOMORROW
this is to get around the "I'm fishing for trout" bar fishing loophole...
it's to protect Interior Fraser steelhead.
The Fraser is closed all the way up to the mouth of the Chilcotin river starting August 15
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region2.html
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region3.html
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region5.html
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So why isn't steelhead fishing closed in the Fraser?
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Trout are steelhead, no? So wouldn't this DFO notice indicate that steelhead fishing was banned?
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No, these are DFO notices. The province is responsible for regulating freshwater fisheries except salmon. Trout and steelhead are categorized differently. If there's no fishing for steelhead, it would say no fishing for steelhead. No fishing for trout and char does not include steelhead.
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steelhead ... a rainbow trout longer than 50 cm in waters where anadromous rainbow trout are found. Both hatchery and wild steelhead may be found in B.C. waters.
Steelhead still open,
But it will be closing just can’t remember when
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So why isn't steelhead fishing closed in the Fraser?
Because they still want your money by purchasing tags...... ;)
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Spent about an hour fishing for bass near main beach at cultus lake on Saturday with a buddy and our kids. My buddys son caught two decent size bass. What really shocked me was the amount of baby bass I saw. Every time I my lure got close to the dock there was a cloud of little followers.
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Lots of bass in Cultus now