Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ry the fly guy on November 27, 2018, 10:18:22 PM
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So I have heard that a pegged trout bead isn't technically considered fly fishing according to the regs, since it is pegged on the line it considered an attractor and not an actual fly/lure. Is this 100% true? I ask because I prefer to fish with beads when possible due to the low chance of fish swallowing the hook. Many legal egg flies are just a bead on the hook, so in my opinion it is ethically the same. Would a CO give a ticket for trout beading in fly only water? This seems like one of the few cases where fly only might not be the best for the fish. If there is an ethical dilemma I am unaware of I would love someone to enlighten me, only thing I could think of is that opening the door for beads may result in a slippery slope where people would demand to use weights/indicators or any number of other things attached to the line. If anyone has any answers I would be grateful, I sent fisheries a e-mail but no response in over a week.
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A bead is not a fly by any definition. You will be ticketed if caught fishing in a fly restricted water.
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A bead is not a fly by any definition. You will be ticketed if caught fishing in a fly restricted water.
Without me going thru the regs of all regions. Can someone provide 3 streams that fish well for beads that are fly only ?
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Use egg flies or roe flies. Everyday might still sell them?
Here's how they define artificial fly:
artificial fly … a single-pointed hook that is
dressed only with fur, feathers, hair, textiles,
tinsel and/or wire, and to which no external
weight or external attracting device is
attached. Two or more hooks tied in tandem
is not permitted. Where gear is restricted
to artificial flies, floats and sinkers may
be attached to the line. Where areas are
restricted to “fly fish only” floats and sinkers
may not be attached to the line or fly.
Here's how fly fishing is defined:
fly fishing … angling with a line to which only
an artificial fly is attached (floats, sinkers,
or attracting devices may not be attached
to the line when fishing is restricted to "fly
fishing only”).
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I feel the same way Ry does about deep hooking fish by using pegged beads, so when fishing Fly Only waters this has been my solution, your mileage may vary by the CO's you meet,, but I never had a prob with the ones that checked me
1) Tie your terminal hook to a 18" piece of tippet material
2) Slide a #12 hook through the tippet and clamp it on your vice 2" above your terminal hook
3) Secure with thread and tie your egg pattern on the #12 hook, tie off and snip off at the hook bend
4) Voila.....a pegged egg fly
When you think about this, it is no different than an intruder fly with a trailing hook that we all use in Fly Only waters
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Without me going thru the regs of all regions. Can someone provide 3 streams that fish well for beads that are fly only ?
I don't know about 3 but I fish the Cowichan a lot, upper is fly only.
When you think about this, it is no different than an intruder fly with a trailing hook that we all use in Fly Only waters
Also ByteMe: Thanks, that is a great idea that I will likely try out. Very true about the intruders, I was thinking tube flies are also very similar but are permitted. Great tip thanks man!
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Ry, I have been using this setup on The Little Q when it's Fly Fishing Only time of year without any issues
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The way pegging a bead is as same as using tube fly with stinger hook.
There are many flies with no feather or fur such as chironomid or wire nymph.
If there is any concern, tie a little bit of thread on the hook, the hook is literally a fly .
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Can I use artificial flies under a float? :D
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Can I use artificial flies under a float? :D
No......not in a Fly Fishing Only area...........not even and indicator ;D
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The way pegging a bead is as same as using tube fly with stinger hook.
There are many flies with no feather or fur such as chironomid or wire nymph.
If there is any concern, tie a little bit of thread on the hook, the hook is literally a fly .
True, I feel like after explaining this to a CO at worst they would ask you not to do it anymore before they ticket you, It genuinely is the safer way to fish, as well as technically the same as many other types of flies.
Ry, I have been using this setup on The Little Q when it's Fly Fishing Only time of year without any issues
Thats good to hear, how is the Little Q doing? blown out at the moment I assume?
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Blown out, like every system on the island...........BTW, you can use tubes the same way I described, just slide one of those rubber bead pegs or round toothpick in the tube, fully adjustable
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Great, I think the tubes would be easiest and will give that a go soon! thanks again.
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from what I have heard the artificial fly only and fly fishing only restrictions are enforced in a manner that is 'in the spirit of the regs and definitions' not by the letter of the law. What that means for pegged beads I can't tell you.
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from what I have heard the artificial fly only and fly fishing only restrictions are enforced in a manner that is 'in the spirit of the regs and definitions' not by the letter of the law. What that means for pegged beads I can't tell you.
I think that is a really valid and good point , also mostly enforced by the purist and elitist fly fishermen as opposed to the CO's
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The current definition of artificial fly in the regs is really outdated and obsolete. Many modern patterns, materials, and tying techniques would not meet the current definition. Having enforcement going by the 'spirit of the regs' is fine and all, otherwise most of the fly guys on those waters should be getting tickets.
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--If it is that important an issue for the few waters that are fly fishing only then get a group together and approach the ministry to get the regulation changed.
--Not all regs have to do with the fish...some are for people management.
--If enough people want some waters designated as bait fishing only or spoon fishing only or bead fishing only or fish however you want areas then go for it...instead of trying to convince people that have no authority to grant permission...get it done properly through the regulation change process...just like fly fishers that lobby for fly fishing only areas. Electric motor only areas etc. Some of the regs have to do with the pleasure of angling.
--Maybe there should be river sections that allow left-handed casting only...I'd go there so I don't have to listen to the whining from wrong handed casters. :'(
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I'd go there so I don't have to listen to the whining from wrong handed casters. :'(
This is a thing now.........wrong handed caster's?
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absolutely, and even don't start on about those guys who will absolutely insist on fly fishing downstream....its all quite appalling really.
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This is a thing now.........wrong handed caster's?
Right up there with wrong handed reelers :P
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Right up there with wrong handed reelers :P
absolutely, and even don't start on about those guys who will absolutely insist on fly fishing downstream....its all quite appalling really.
No wonder my days on the water have been limited. Sure glad I don't have the need to fish "in the hot spot" and settle on waters less frequented by others.
The entitlement on our bodies of water these days has gotten out of hand, especially if we are calling guys out for supposedly casting the wrong way. What does this mean really? If everyone is casting river right that the cast must come from the same side as everyone else?
Good god, help us all!!
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--In the past...gear restrictions were in part used to "limit" the number of anglers. There were also organized regional fishing clubs, most were fly fishing clubs. These clubs worked closely with regional biologists from Fish&Wildlife of the day. The mandate of F&W used to be to provide "fishing and hunting opportunities"... this is no longer their primary mandate.
--Some regulations are carryovers from lobbying in the early days for things like "trophy lake designations".
--I would hope we don't need the pendulum to swing so far as to eliminate some waters designated as quality or trophy as intended in the older definitions.
--Most regions have significantly reduced the number of fly fishing only lakes. The hunting community has accepted area based Bag limits or limited entry through lotto or bow only etc. why can't the fishing community accept a very small portion of BC's waters that have regulations to enhance the experience of Angling by restricting the number of anglers.
--There are a number of ways to enhance some areas through restricted access...gear restrictions are just one aspect of an overall management plan...it was likely overused in the past but that does not mean it should be eliminated from the management toolbox.
--Seriously...If you think pegged beads should be allowed in areas that they are currently excluded then lobby to get a regulation change rather than lobby to get other anglers to ignore the regulation.
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Skaha, I don't have time to lobby the government to allow pegged beads. This is a fishing forum for general discussion I don't think I've done anything out of the usual here by asking a question. I've sent emails to Fish & Wildlife with no response so I figured I would ask here to see if I could get an answer. Do you also ask every spey fisher you meet to lobby to technically allow tube flies? How would allowing pegged beads suddenly increase the # of anglers overnight? As I have said I can catch fish on a traditional egg fly no problem, I literally just want to reduce mortality as much as possible, please explain what is wrong with this?
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No wonder my days on the water have been limited. Sure glad I don't have the need to fish "in the hot spot" and settle on waters less frequented by others.
The entitlement on our bodies of water these days has gotten out of hand, especially if we are calling guys out for supposedly casting the wrong way. What does this mean really? If everyone is casting river right that the cast must come from the same side as everyone else?
Good god, help us all!!
Sorry STS, I thought my post was so narrow minded and stupid that the sarcasm would be obvious.
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Skaha, I don't have time to lobby the government to allow pegged beads. This is a fishing forum for general discussion I don't think I've done anything out of the usual here by asking a question. I've sent emails to Fish & Wildlife with no response so I figured I would ask here to see if I could get an answer. Do you also ask every spey fisher you meet to lobby to technically allow tube flies? How would allowing pegged beads suddenly increase the # of anglers overnight? As I have said I can catch fish on a traditional egg fly no problem, I literally just want to reduce mortality as much as possible, please explain what is wrong with this?
--Do I ask spey casters to lobby...Yes, and they do.
--I'm not saying you can't have an opinion...I'm just explaining mine... I haven't alerted the CO's to ensure they check up on you, nor asked the administrators to delete every post that may suggest ways to skirt the law either. Just suggesting that if it is important do something about it. Don't expect someone else to do the grunt work.
--PS... I don't have anything against the use of beads...I used to distribute heavi-beads and use them...except on flyfishing only waters.
--I always encourage others to participate, as much as practicable in resources management decisions...I still believe that there should be time for fishing as well. I don't take up every cause with religious fervor no do I expect others to act on my advice.
--Not everyone is familiar with the processes nor the history of (according to me) resources management. Of course, my views are biased by my experiences.
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I don't think the definition of a fly has to be changed as I think it is broad enough to cover well over 90% of what fly anglers typically use as well as the yarn ties gear anglers use. Even at that I don't doubt any ticket for using an intruder or tube fly would get tossed in court if someone bothered to challenge it.
I also am not sold that there is anything to be gained by using a pegged bead rather than a globug or other egg pattern. My experience is that I can recall only one time when a trout was hooked well back in the throat. Even then I was able to unhook and release it without any visible bleeding or injury. Recently some former bead pegging converts have recanted saying they lose more of those fish since they are often hooked outside the mouth. Some have said pegging is unethical since fish that take the bead are often hooked outside the mouth... they are snagged. Others agree and peg the bead closer to the hook.
You have to put weight on the leader since most beads aren't heavy enough to sink well so that negates it from fly only water.
Basically who cares. If you are worried fish a yarn tie and tie it an inch or two above the hook
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Sorry STS, I thought my post was so narrow minded and stupid that the sarcasm would be obvious.
Sorry Ian, I suppose I am the narrow minded and should have seen the sarcasm behind it, stupid me. ;)
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--Pegged bead allow for effective use of circle hook
--The regulations were applied for different reasons or a combination of reasons. In other jurisdictions, the concept of "willful take" allows for hooking outside of the mouth with a circle hook. This is for areas where the intent is to allow either selective harvest or C&R for conservation reasons...in other words the regulation is to protect the fish and allow the least amount of damage to fish intended for release.
--In some areas, the gear restriction has little to do with the fish...it is for people management, ie. reducing the number of users. There are other ways... to control numbers. Reduce road or boat access, limited entry or special tags etc.
--It is difficult to argue the effectiveness of a regulation unless the intent is known. I have argued for years (no success yet) that the management plans should be available for those who choose to read them. We would then know if the regulation is to regulate the fish or the fishers. We would also know that there are some areas where the intent is to reduce the fish population thus the intent is for anglers to keep their limit.
--Check out the experiment on Citizen Science on Anglers atlas. Where anglers record catch numbers and hrs fishing plus answer some survey questionnaires. If found effective this could lead to better management strategies, based on actual measured data rather than relying on surveys and anecdotal data.