Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on July 20, 2018, 06:32:09 PM
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Members of the Tsawwassen First Nation are teaming up with commercial and sport-fishers on B.C.’s coast to call on the new federal fisheries minister to allow a West Coast seal and sea lion harvest. The group, called the Pacific Balance Pinnipeds Society, says that growing populations of seals and sea lions endangers future salmon populations.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4344527/new-group-seal-sea-lion-cull-bc-coast/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/4344527/new-group-seal-sea-lion-cull-bc-coast/)
Of course the Global reporter got the population numbers all wrong, and the anti's at Ocean Wise have started their bleating already.
But, this is an initiative that is long overdue IMHO, and I will support it any and every way I can... ;)
Cheers,
Nog
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It's a brilliant idea.
There should be a regular harvest of seals and sea lions and a great big barbeque.
I don't understand why they don't allow it. I am sure there would be a lot of opposition by the vegetarian Peta type people but what a great source of protein. Free range and no antibiotics.
Put me down for a seal flipper burger. Thank you.
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They are full of mercury and not tasting good at all from what I know.
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They are full of mercury and not tasting good at all from what I know.
Which pretty much indicates you know extremely little. ;D
Cheers,
Nog
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So how do they taste?
Other than animal rights groups, i cant see why we dont eat them if they taste good.
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So how do they taste?
The natives used to say the Stellar Sea Lions were good to eat but the California Sea Lions not so much. Unfortunately its the the California ones that are the problem. Never heard a comment on the Harbour Seals.
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If the deers, wolves and bears can be hunted, why not seal and sea lions.
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If the deers, wolves and bears can be hunted, why not seal and sea lions.
Or eagles and swans?
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Or eagles and swans?
LOL! Not such a good selection to make your point...
Swans are hunted in many jurisdictions, including Canada.
The younger (grey) ones taste just like geese btw... ;D
Cheers,
Nog
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Does anyone have any links to technical papers, studies or reports that provide any science behind the claims that there are growing numbers of seals and sea lions and that there is a confirmed correlation between seal/sea lion numbers and a measurable impact on salmon returns that are not or cannot be associated with other environmental impacts.
The video mentions the need for studies to establish the seal population and status, therefore how has it been established that the salmon crisis is in any way linked to seal and sea lion numbers?
I am not saying there is or is not a correlation. The video is dramatic and if seal numbers have increased substantially the cause and effect would appear to be obvious. However, I would like to look at hard data rather than anecdotal assumptions and guesses, which may or may not be supported by hard evidence.
If there was clear evidence (or even reasonable evidence that suggests a likely correlation, i.e. based on a balance of probability, more than 50%), then I would fully support appropriate management.
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Does anyone have any links to technical papers, studies or reports that provide any science behind the claims that there are growing numbers of seals and sea lions and that there is a confirmed correlation between seal/sea lion numbers and a measurable impact on salmon returns that are not or cannot be associated with other environmental impacts.
There are a few links in this thread: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42122.0
Cheers,
Nog
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I'm surprised that First Nations groups all along the coast haven't jumped on this a lot earlier! I fished all over the BC coast from Sooke to Haida Gwaii and there are huge populations of both seals and sea lions everywhere I have gone
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So how do they taste?
Other than animal rights groups, i cant see why we dont eat them if they taste good.
I've had Harp Seal tartare in Quebec and I would describe it as an acquired taste. We thought it tasted like a venison steak that had been ground with a spoon full of cod liver oil.
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If the deers, wolves and bears can be hunted, why not seal and sea lions.
There is a very strong global move toward banning the harvest and use of all marine mammals because of "conservation concerns" although it's really driven by an animal cruelty movement with an ecology cloak. They generalize that marine mammals have intrinsically low rates of reproduction and can't sustain commercial scale harvesting. Doesn't hurt that it's easier to raise money with a cute doe-eyed seal pup than a slimy bulbous-eyed fish.
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I may be wrong but I once heard that the Chinese believe the sea lion penis has aphrodisiac value. If it's true and the cull materialize that'd sure put a damper on the seal and sea lion population eh?
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LOL! Not such a good selection to make your point...
Swans are hunted in many jurisdictions, including Canada.
The younger (grey) ones taste just like geese btw... ;D
Cheers,
Nog
So are seals and sea lions hunted in other jurisdictions, just not here. I was trying to point out that because you can kill one animal it doesn’t mean that you can kill all animals.
I have no problem with a cull if the science supports it but history has more reports of failed culls than successful ones, but I guess good culls just worked and didn’t make the news.
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I may be wrong but I once heard that the Chinese believe the sea lion penis has aphrodisiac value. If it's true and the cull materialize that'd sure put a damper on the seal and sea lion population eh?
Tried to market the aphrodisiac properties on the east coast but not all that successful.
The east coast seal situation kind of puts the west coast in perspective.
Estimates for the west coast is that harbour seals population is about 100k and relatively stable. Sea Lions in 10s of thousands.
Harp and Grey seals on the east coast are estimated in the millions.
Doubtful much of a market based harvest can be sustained here just based on numbers. Given the problems faced by the east coast harvest in finding markets the prospect for the West Coast has to be much more pessimistic.
BTW Knn, the studies so far are all circumstantial and limited in scope. There are many variables not explored in any sort of detail and estimates seals eat 40% plus of juvenile chinook is based on speculation and mathematical extrapolation. There is a
good likelihood that figure is overestimated though specific local impacts appear in that range.
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You may have already seen this clip
https://globalnews.ca/news/4344527/new-group-seal-sea-lion-cull-bc-coast/
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Yes Armytruck, that link is in the OP.
But thanks just the same.
Btw.... may i take your order for a lovely sea lion slider? :)
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;D :o ::)
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In the absence of any hard evidence that supports the speculation that there has been a substantial increase in seal numbers and that the increased numbers have had any measurable impact on salmon returns, what is the the next step?
1) Open season blood bath and see what happens;
2) Limited/selective cull based on controlling/reducing numbers, species and/or locations;
3) More studies to determine if seal numbers are exploding and there is in fact evidence to support an adverse cause and effect and to identify if a selective cull or full metal jacket blood bath cull would work;
4) Do nothing, because they look sad.
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I have a few interesting questions myself:
1) do you believe that if seal numbers had stayed the same, that chinook and coho returns in the Squamish and other major river system would be about the same as they were in 1970?
2) that someone will offer to shoot and remove 10,000 , 20,000 or more seals plus recover, remove and process the carcasses for free?
3) seals are the single cause of salmon decline on the Pacific Northwest Coast?
4) That every person with a single reason among dozens for 'explaining' the progressive collapse of salmon stocks on the south coast...you know it was the herring collapse, it was clear cut logging, it was high seas drift net fishing, it was the Alaskans, it was the commies, it was the native fishery, yada yada.. has suddenly discovered it was the seals and this has nothing to do with the fact they always wanted to 'cull' (slaughter) all the seals anyway?
5) that it is always the seals, otherwise we'd be up to our asses in salmon like great grandad was in 1900?
6) try to get that kid at UBC to correlate population growth in southern BC with salmon numbers. When we see the p value do we support a cull for humans?
...all makes about as much sense to me...
go for it dudes!
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In the absence of any hard evidence that supports the speculation that there has been a substantial increase in seal numbers and that the increased numbers have had any measurable impact on salmon returns, what is the the next step?
1) Open season blood bath and see what happens;
2) Limited/selective cull based on controlling/reducing numbers, species and/or locations;
3) More studies to determine if seal numbers are exploding and there is in fact evidence to support an adverse cause and effect and to identify if a selective cull or full metal jacket blood bath cull would work;
4) Do nothing, because they look sad.
Have you been fishing in the salt or near any tributary within a few km's of the fraser the past few years? I have only been in Vancouver for 10 years and 9 of those fishing both salt and fresh and it's absolutely shocking the difference in populations. In 5 years straight of fishing the west side of the island I've seen a definite increase but not the same level as the LML.
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--haven't seen anyone saying that seal's and sea lion's are the Only Problems. The selective harvest or cull suggested is for specific areas of concern.
--one would expect data to monitor the effect and either accept the results or modify the treatment if necessary.
--there are many people starving in the world so should not be an issue with finding someone or some other domesticated food critter to eat the stuff...kinda ironic if it was turned into fish food.
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Would hurt to try it out. Except if you're a seal.
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If you're looking for research on Seals impact on juvenile Salmon populations, you MUST see this video presentation outlining the research by PhD Austen Thomas. Pretty cool how they tracked how many smolts the Seals were eating.
Presentation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGbAKtTejH0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGbAKtTejH0)
If you're looking for research in regards to the increase in harbour seal populations here's an interesting article from a few years ago:
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/seals+blamed+drop+juvenile+salmon+stocks+strait+georgia+study/11673383/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/seals+blamed+drop+juvenile+salmon+stocks+strait+georgia+study/11673383/story.html)
Article Snippet:
"The population of harbour seals has grown steadily with federal protection, from fewer than 5,000 in 1970 to about 40,000 in 2008 in the Strait of Georgia — a period that corresponds with marked declines in coho and chinook."
I'd be very curious to see the 2018 stats on harbour seal populations.