Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: wildmanyeah on July 10, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
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Subject: FN0579-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye Update - Areas 11 to 29 - July 10, 2018
The Fraser River Panel met Tuesday, July 10, to receive an update on the
migration of the Fraser sockeye runs to date and review the status of migration
conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provided forecasts of the 2018 Fraser River
sockeye salmon abundance, timing and diversion rate to the Fraser Panel prior
to the season. The majority of sockeye returning in 2018 will be recruits from
adult spawners in 2013 and 2014 with the latter being the Adams River dominant
cycle line. DFO has advised that Fraser River sockeye salmon forecasts for 2018
continue to be highly uncertain due to variability in annual survival rates and
uncertainty about changes in their productivity as a result of the warm blob
from 2013 to 2016 and the subsequent El Nino at the end of 2016 into early
2017.
To put the sockeye run size forecast uncertainty into context, there is a one
in four chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or below
8,423,000 fish (the 25% probability level forecast) and there is a one in four
chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or above
22,937,000 fish (the 75% probability level forecast). For pre-season planning
purposes, the Fraser Panel used the 50% probability level forecast (equal
chance of a higher or lower return) of 13,981,000 fish for all management
groups. This is similar to the cycle average of 13.7 million. The largest
contributing stocks for the 2018 return are expected to be the Late Shuswap,
Chilko, Quesnel, and Early Shuswap.
For 2018 pre-season planning purposes the Early Stuart and Chilko forecast
timing of July 2 and August 11 respectively were adopted by the Fraser Panel at
the June meeting in Suquamish, Washington. Timing for all other sockeye stocks
is based on historical correlations with the Early Stuart and Chilko timings
mentioned above. The pre-season forecast of the proportion of Fraser River
sockeye salmon diverting their migration through Johnstone Strait is 56%.
Given the recent high diversion rates on this cycle line through Johnstone
Strait the Panel chose to adopt the 1990-2017 median diversion rate of 63% for
planning purposes.
The snow pack volume in the Fraser River watershed was well above average in
March and April of this year, however a warmer than normal spring resulted in
early snowmelt throughout the Fraser watershed resulting in well below average
snowpack by June. As such it is anticipated that water levels will be well
below average during the sockeye migration period. This combined with above
average forecast for air temperatures has resulted in a prediction of water
temperatures that will be above the historic mean for July and August. Actual
water temperatures and discharge levels will be monitored closely during the
2018 return to determine if migration issues are developing.
For pre-season planning purposes the Fraser Panel has adopted management
adjustments for Early Stuart based on the historical median for all years,
Early Summer based on the historical median for dominant years only (2018
cycle) and Summer run sockeye based on the historical median for all years.
Model predicted management adjustments based on the water discharge and
temperature predictions were not adopted largely due to the high degree of
uncertainty in the forecasts. Management adjustments are additional fish that
are removed from identified harvest levels and allowed to escape upstream in an
attempt to assist in achievement of identified escapement objectives for the
different run timing groups. In-season information over the coming weeks will
help to inform future decisions on management adjustments for the Early Summer,
Summer and Late run management groups while the Early Stuart management group
will be managed based on the respective Low Abundance Exploitation Rate (LAER)
of 10%. There will be no in-season estimates of management adjustment for Early
Stuart in 2018 unless the run size is considerably larger than the median
forecast and generates TAC. It is anticipated they will be managed to the LAER,
with the expected outcome of a spawning escapement being below goal.
Gill net test fishing began in the Fraser River on June 22 at Whonnock and July
2 at Qualark Creek. The Area 20 gill net test fishery began today (July 10)
while Round Island and Cottonwood gill net test fisheries are planned to begin
on July 12th. During the first 10 days at Whonnock no sockeye were caught
however since July 2 sockeye catches have increased significantly with early
stock identification analyses indicating the majority of the sockeye being
Early Stuart and Chilliwack sockeye. In-season assessment of Early Stuart
sockeye will be provided later in July once more information becomes available.
In-season assessment of all run timing groups generally occurs shortly after
identification of their peak migration through marine areas.
Currently, First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) sockeye fisheries
have been restricted by the 3 week Early Stuart window closure with limited
fishing opportunities in the Fraser River directed at Chinook salmon. The start-
up of sockeye directed FSC fisheries is not anticipated before mid to late July
depending upon location and will be based on the identification of sockeye TAC
for Early Summer or Summer run sockeye. FSC fishers in marine approach areas,
as well as the Fraser River are requested to check for the opening times and
any restrictions in their local area. Commercial and recreational fisheries are
not anticipated to begin until the end of July or early August once commercial
TAC has been identified.
The next in-season meeting of the Fraser River Panel is scheduled to occur on
Friday, July 13, 2018.
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Subject: FN0597-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye Update - Areas 11 to 29 - July 13, 2018
The Fraser River Panel met Friday, July 13, to receive an update on the
migration of the Fraser sockeye runs to date and review the status of migration
conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provided forecasts of the 2018 Fraser River
sockeye salmon abundance, timing and diversion rate to the Fraser Panel prior
to the season. The majority of sockeye returning in 2018 will be recruits from
adult spawners in 2013 and 2014 with the latter being the Adams River dominant
cycle line. DFO has advised that Fraser River sockeye salmon forecasts for 2018
continue to be highly uncertain due to variability in annual survival rates and
uncertainty about changes in their productivity as a result of the warm blob
from 2013 to 2016 and the subsequent El Nino at the end of 2016 into early
2017.
To put the sockeye run size forecast uncertainty into context, there is a one
in four chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or below
8,423,000 fish (the 25% probability level forecast) and there is a one in four
chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or above
22,937,000 fish (the 75% probability level forecast). For pre-season planning
purposes, the Fraser Panel used the 50% probability level forecast (equal
chance of a higher or lower return) of 13,981,000 fish for all management
groups. This is similar to the cycle average of 13.7 million. The largest
contributing stocks for the 2018 return are expected to be the Late Shuswap,
Chilko, Quesnel, and Early Shuswap.
For 2018 pre-season planning purposes the Early Stuart and Chilko forecast
timing of July 2 and August 11 respectively were adopted by the Fraser Panel at
the June meeting in Suquamish, Washington. Timing for all other sockeye stocks
was based on the difference between the 2018 Chilko forecast and the historical
median for Chilko (plus 1 day). The pre-season forecast of the proportion of
Fraser River sockeye salmon diverting their migration through Johnstone Strait
is 56%. Given the recent high diversion rates on this cycle line through
Johnstone Strait the Panel chose to adopt the 1990-2017 median diversion rate
of 63% for planning purposes.
The snow pack volume in the Fraser River watershed was well above average in
March and April of this year, however a warmer than normal spring resulted in
early snowmelt throughout the Fraser watershed resulting in well below average
snowpack by June. As such it is anticipated that water levels will be well
below average during the sockeye migration period. This combined with above
average forecast for air temperatures has resulted in a prediction of water
temperatures that will be above the historic mean for July and August. Actual
water temperatures and discharge levels will be monitored closely during the
2018 return to determine if migration issues are developing.
For pre-season planning purposes the Fraser Panel has adopted management
adjustments for Early Stuart based on the historical median for all years,
Early Summer based on the historical median for dominant years only (2018
cycle) and Summer run sockeye based on the historical median for all years.
Model predicted management adjustments based on the water discharge and
temperature predictions were not adopted largely due to the high degree of
uncertainty in the forecasts. Management adjustments are additional fish that
are removed from identified harvest levels and allowed to escape upstream in an
attempt to assist in achievement of identified escapement objectives for the
different run timing groups. In-season information over the coming weeks will
help to inform future decisions on management adjustments for the Early Summer,
Summer and Late run management groups while the Early Stuart management group
will be managed based on the respective Low Abundance Exploitation Rate (LAER)
of 10%. There will be no in-season estimates of management adjustment for Early
Stuart in 2018 unless the run size is considerably larger than the median
forecast and generates TAC. It is anticipated they will be managed to the LAER,
with the expected outcome of a spawning escapement being below goal.
The observed water temperature at Qualark on July 12 was 17.3° Celsius which is
1.3° Celsius above average for this date. Water temperatures are forecast to
increase to 18.8° Celsius by July 18. The Fraser River discharge at Hope on
July 12 was 5,021 cubic meters per second which is 9% below the average
discharge for this date.
Gill net test fishing began in the Fraser River on June 22 at Whonnock and July
2 at Qualark Creek while the Area 20 gill net test fishery began on July 10 and
the Round Island (Area 12) and Cottonwood gill net test fisheries began on July
12. Daily sockeye catches at Whonnock peaked at 29 on July 6 after which they
declined to 2 on July 11. Stock identification analyses indicated the majority
of the sockeye to date have been Early Stuart with low levels of Nadina
starting to show. During the 3 days of test fishing in Area 20 sockeye catches
have increased from 74 on July 10 to 197 on the 12. Early Stuart sockeye is the
dominant stock in the stock ID samples taken on the 10 with low levels of Early
Summers (primarily Nadina) and a few Summer run (Harrison) sockeye.
In-season assessment of Early Stuart sockeye run size will be provided next
week once more information becomes available. Early information is suggesting
the run size of Early Stuart sockeye is tracking at or above the pre-season p50
forecast of 84,000. In-season assessment of all run timing groups generally
occurs shortly after identification of their peak migration through marine
areas.
Currently, First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) sockeye fisheries
have been restricted by the 3 week Early Stuart window closure with limited
fishing opportunities in the Fraser River directed at Chinook salmon. The start-
up of sockeye directed FSC fisheries is not anticipated before mid to late July
depending upon location and will be based on the identification of sockeye TAC
for Early Summer or Summer run sockeye. The Early Stuart window closure ends in
Marine waters on July 15 however the data to date does not indicate sufficient
strength in the Early Summer run to initiate fisheries at this time. The start
date for sockeye retention in marine areas will be considered following the
next Panel meeting on July 17.
FSC fishers in marine approach areas, as well as the Fraser River are requested
to check for the opening times and any restrictions in their local area.
Commercial and recreational fisheries are not anticipated to begin until the
end of July or early August once commercial TAC has been identified.
The next in-season meeting of the Fraser River Panel is scheduled to occur on
Tuesday, July 17, 2018.
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I thought sockeye was already open to fish since they are for sale in Yale. 8)
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I can recall two years ago at a store in Mission. A fellow who works at this store ( half FN ) is a nice guy and we will often talk about fishing from time to time. He offered to sell me Sockeye because quote " My family is overflowing with Salmon. We have so much every year we gift most of it away or sell it. I dont even eat Salmon. "
These situations happen every year. It used to bother me a lot but I realize that it is their constitutional right. What bothers be is I have to buy Sockeye in a store and bot be allowed to catch it myself. That bothers me.
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Subject: FN0605-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye Update - Areas 11 to 29 - July 17, 2018
The Fraser River Panel met Tuesday, July 17, to receive an update on the
migration of the Fraser Sockeye runs to date and review the status of migration
conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
The observed water temperature at Qualark on July 16 was 17.7° Celsius which is
1.2° Celsius above average for this date. Water temperatures are forecast to
increase to 18.5° Celsius by July 22. The Fraser River discharge at Hope on
July 16 was 4,283 cubic meters per second which is 20% below the average
discharge for this date.
Gill net test fishing began in the Fraser River on June 22 at Whonnock and July
2 at Qualark Creek while the Area 20 gill net test fishery began on July 10 and
the Round Island (Area 12) and Cottonwood gill net test fisheries began on July
12. Daily Sockeye catches at Whonnock and Cottonwood have been steady at low
levels for the past several days with both showing an increased catch
yesterday. In-river stock identification analyses indicated the majority of
the Sockeye to date have been primarily Early Stuart and Nadina (Early Summer)
Sockeye, with Nadina being on the increase.
Marine test fishery catches have fluctuated considerably in Area 20 while Area
12 has been on the increase. Stock identification samples show much higher
proportions of Early Stuart in Area 20 than in Area 12 in the most recent
samples (25% vs 7% respectively). Nadina is making up the largest portion of
the Area 20 samples at 37% and 47% in Area 12. Summer run stocks are beginning
to show in both approach routes while Late Shuswap comprised 17% of the small
Area 12 sample that was available. The current estimate for the diversion rate
through Johnstone Strait is estimated to be 35% based on the most recent 3 days
of catches in the Area 20 and 12 gill net test fisheries.
During the call today the Panel accepted the recommendation to increase the
Early Stuart run size to 106,000 with July 3 timing in Area 20 from the pre-
season p50 forecast of 84,000 and July 2 timing. At this time it is too early
to make any predictions of the run size for Early Summers however the earlier
timed stocks appear to be tracking at or slightly above the p50 forecast or
they may be earlier than predicted. In-season assessment of all run timing
groups generally occurs shortly after identification of their peak migration
through marine areas.
Currently, First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) Sockeye fisheries
have been restricted by the 3 week Early Stuart window closure with limited
fishing opportunities in the Fraser River directed at Chinook salmon. The start-
up of Sockeye directed FSC fisheries is not anticipated before mid to late July
depending upon location and will be based on the identification of Sockeye TAC
for Early Summer or Summer run Sockeye. The Early Stuart window closure ended
in Marine waters on July 15 with retention of Sockeye being delayed 4 days to
July 19with the expectation of a similar delay to the start-up of Fraser in-
river fisheries to provide additional protection to the earlier timed Early
Summer stocks which were not forecast to return in large numbers in 2018. The
strength in Early Summers is expected to be in the later timed South Thompson
Early Summer stocks.
FSC fishers in marine approach areas, as well as the Fraser River are requested
to check for the opening times and any restrictions in their local area.
Commercial and recreational fisheries are not anticipated to begin until the
end of July or early August once commercial TAC has been identified.
The next in-season meeting of the Fraser River Panel is scheduled to occur on
Friday, July 20, 2018.
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Any new reports on this fishery?
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Looks like the gong show starts August 6
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I thought sockeye was already open to fish since they are for sale in Yale. 8)
They are from a test fishery so it is legal.
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Any new reports on this fishery?
The last panel report from Tuesday confirmed that either the early summer runs are early or they are at the p75 level - a good return so far.
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They are from a test fishery so it is legal.
I guess the unnamed band at the mouth of the Fraser selling spring for $6/lbs are also selling test fishery springs. ::)
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Good to see the sockeye doing well this year. Hopefully the Fraser coho and pinks will also recover from last year's debacle. Springs appear to be in decline, according to news outlets.
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Tuesday, July 24, 2018
The Fraser River Panel met Tuesday, July 24 to receive an update on the migration of Fraser sockeye and review the status of migration conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
Assessments of Early Summer-run sockeye abundance are ongoing and run-size estimates should be available in early August after their peak migration through marine areas.
On July 23, the Fraser River water discharge at Hope was approximately 3,794 cms, which is approximately 21% below average for this date. The temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark Creek on July 23 was 18.5 C, which is 1.2C above average for this date. Fraser River water temperatures are forecast to reach 19.6C over the next few days. Sustained water temperatures in this range can cause severe stress to migrating sockeye and may lead to significant en route mortality. Migration conditions for Fraser sockeye will be monitored closely over the next several weeks and appropriate management actions will be taken.
CANADIAN FRASER RIVER PANEL AREA WATERS:
Remain closed to commercial fishing.
UNITED STATES FRASER RIVER PANEL AREA WATERS:
TREATY INDIAN FISHERY:
Areas 4B, 5 and 6C: Open to drift gillnets 12:00 p.m. (noon), Friday, July 27, 2018, to 12:00 p.m. (noon) Tuesday, July 31, 2018.
NON INDIAN FISHERY:
Remains closed to fishing.
(Note: U. S. Non-Treaty fishers
should check the U.S. hotline and WDFW regulations before
fishing as there are additional State of Washington regulations, including time restrictions that
may be in effect).
The next in-season meeting of the Panel is scheduled to occur on Friday, July 27, 2018.
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They are from a test fishery so it is legal.
A test fishery in Yale ::)
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A test fishery in Yale ::)
Yes. The Qualark hydro acoustic site at Yale relies on a test fishery once per day to determine the ratio of fish going past the array, since it's mostly impossible to do on the screen, besides for obviously large fish >20 pounds based on lengths (ie how many chinook vs how many sockeye - and on pink years, the ratio of sockeye/pink/Chinook). Dna and other information (lengths/weights,etc) is also taken to determine stocks and other valuable information if needed.
In this case, the Yale First Nations agreed to do the test fisheries in return for the fish (to do with as they please).
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Wow the more you know
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Subject: FN0661-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye Update - Areas 11 to 29 - July 27, 2018
The Fraser River Panel met Friday, July 27, to receive an update on the
migration of the Fraser sockeye runs to date and review the status of migration
conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
Gill net test fishery catches in the Fraser River have continued to increase in
both the Whonnock and Cottonwood test fisheries. Mission escapement estimates
have ranged between 23,800 and 48,200 for the past 5 days with the total
sockeye escapement estimate up to July 26 being 396,900. Stock identification
analyses from samples taken in the lower Fraser River continue to show a
decline in Early Stuart sockeye combined with an increase in the proportions of
Early Summers and Summers. Within the Early Summer group Nadina remains the
dominant stock with the later timed South Thompson Early Summer stocks
continuing to increase. The Summer run timing group are primarily Late
Stuart/Stellako and Chilko/Quesnel at this time with some Late Run fish showing
up in the samples.
Marine gill net test fishery catches have been on the increase in both approach
areas for the past three days with Area 20 having the largest daily catch of
468 on July 25. The seine test fisheries began in Area 12 on July 24, Area 20
on July 25 and Area 13 on July 26. Sockeye catches have been low in Areas 12
and 13 to date (less than 400 per day) while Area 20 had a catch of 1075 on
July 25. Stock identification samples are indicating that Early Stuart’s are
through the marine approach areas. Both Areas 20 and 12 are showing Early
Summers and Summers dominating the samples with low but increasing proportions
of Late Run fish. In the Early Summer Run group the later timed South Thompson
stocks are becoming a larger component of the aggregate which is expected as
this group was forecast pre-season to be the largest stock within the Early
Summers. Nadina continues to be making up the largest portion of the samples in
Area 12 while South Thompson Early Summers are now more abundant in Area 20
samples. The current estimate for the diversion rate through Johnstone Strait
has declined to 17% based on the most recent 5 days of catch in the Area 20 and
12 gill net test fisheries. This declining trend is a normal occurrence for the
Diversion Rate at this time of year on this cycle.
For pre-season planning purposes the Fraser Panel has adopted management
adjustments(MA) for Early Stuart based on the historical median for all years,
Early Summer based on the historical median for dominant years only (2018
cycle) and Summer run sockeye based on the historical median for all years.
Model predicted management adjustments based on the water discharge and
temperature predictions were not adopted largely due to the high degree of
uncertainty in the forecasts. Management adjustments are additional fish that
are removed from identified harvest levels and allowed to escape upstream in an
attempt to assist in achievement of identified escapement objectives for the
different run timing groups. In-season information over the coming weeks will
help to inform future decisions on management adjustments for the Early Summer,
Summer and Late run management groups while the Early Stuart management group
will be managed based on the respective Low Abundance Exploitation Rate (LAER)
of 10%. It is anticipated the Early Stuart sockeye return will result in a
spawning escapement being below goal.
The observed water temperature at Qualark on July 26 dropped to 18.0° Celsius
which is only 0.2° Celsius above average for this date. Water temperatures are
forecast to increase to 20.4° Celsius by August 1. The Fraser River discharge
at Hope on July 26 was 3,998 cubic meters per second which is 14% below the
average discharge for this date.
During the call today the Panel adopted an increase in the run size for Early
Stuart sockeye to 135,000 from the previously adopted run size of 120,000 with
an Area 20 timing of July 5 which is 3 days later than the pre-season forecast
of July 2. No changes were made to the run size or timing of the other run
timing groups although the earliest timed stocks in the Early Summer Run group
are tracking above the p50 forecast of 288,000. In-season assessment of all
run timing groups generally occurs shortly after identification of their peak
migration through marine areas.
The first spawning ground report was released on July 26. Early Stuart sockeye
were first observed in the terminal area on July 21 with most of the fish
observed holding off the mouths of the spawning tributaries Takla Lake and the
Middle River. Fish condition is reported as being good.
Currently, First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) sockeye fisheries
have begun in Marine areas and the lower Fraser River with areas in the mid and
upper Fraser expected to begin this weekend or later depending upon the area.
FSC fishers in marine approach areas, as well as the Fraser River are requested
to check for the opening times and any restrictions in their local area.
If the current pattern of Fraser sockeye returns being larger than the p50
forecast continues, Commercial and recreational fisheries are likely to begin
next week with dates and times to be determined following the next Panel
meeting.
During the call today the Panel approved an extension to the US commercial
fishery in Areas 4b, 5 and 6c to Wednesday, August 1. This is a low impact gill
net fishery in the outer Juan de Fuca Strait area.
The next in-season meeting of the Fraser River Panel is scheduled to occur on
Tuesday, July 31, 2018.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Regional Salmon Team – DFO Pacific
DFO.PacificSalmonRMT-EGRSaumonduPacifique.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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So with the sure to come Sockeye opening, I would imagine all you long leader bashers won't actually be using long leaders, now will you?
No, of course you'll be changing your tune and suddenly justifying your use of the long leader because - it's a harvest fishery, isn't it?
Will you be able to face yourself in the mirror if you hook a Chinook with a long leader? Will you bonk it anyways? I bet you will no matter what you say.
LOL - Just busting your Betties boys, go fill your daily limits while you can - it's been a long time waiting.
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now now... they haven't really given a clue if it will happen in non-tidal waters... im thinking it will be first in tidal :P
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usually is.
Sport opening will probably be announced at the same time as a commercial opening.
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https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=211312&ID=all
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What is the proper and effective way of catching sockeye in Fraser river?
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https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=211312&ID=all
thanks Chris
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What is the proper and effective way of catching sockeye in Fraser river?
Oooh, this should be good. ;D
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Bouncing Bettie weights and long leaders. Harvest your 2 and leave. Been waiting for this for 4 long years. Time to put some fish in the freezer.
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I have Friends that are panicking over the lack of besties in the Valley. I had to chuckle a bit when I hear of guys stocking up already. A buddy of mine told me Kent Outdoors has a ton of them in all the sizes.
I've never participated in this harvest before. Maybe I will this time around.
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Bouncing Bettie weights and long leaders. Harvest your 2 and leave. Been waiting for this for 4 long years. Time to put some fish in the freezer.
When I google Bettie weights, I got this:
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?quality=80&thumbnail=1200%2C630&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fs-i.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F2874340%2Fimages%2Fo-OBESITY-facebook.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=e09926d90796cf995f1771edb23e28e01e623501)
Bouncing this, Are you freaking kidding?
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When I google Bettie weights, I got this:
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?quality=80&thumbnail=1200%2C630&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fs-i.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F2874340%2Fimages%2Fo-OBESITY-facebook.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=e09926d90796cf995f1771edb23e28e01e623501)
Bouncing this, Are you freaking kidding?
You're enjoying making fun of other people's misery?
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You're enjoying making fun of other people's misery?
No Rodney, I am trying to look for and stock the mighty bettie weights before they are sold out.
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Bouncing this, Are you freaking kidding?
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Rodney's linked YouTube opening commentary.
"Back again. Seems like it was just yesterday, when we were here last..."
So true in all respects to this fishery.
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Long live this fishery. May those who partake in this fishery have lots of fun and enjoy lots of food from the harvest if this fabulous resource!
Happy eating!
.....and remember, these fish are tasty and nutritious. There are a dozen ways to prepare them and they are all excellent! :)
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Best be happy if you can. :)
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I'm not so happy about the idea of thousands of people who usually don't fish buying bottom snagging gear for a few weeks of opening and then seeing them on the rivers in the fall, but I guess on the temporary bright side of things, there will be less people where I've been fishing lately once this news gets out :).
Just like three and four years ago, we experienced anglers need to be prepared for renewed stewardship on the rivers this fall. Carry extra floats to give away, have patience, and speak softly. You will be dealing with people who literally don't know any better. Help land and release fish that are not legally hooked (and the odd Cultus sockeye). Advise as to what fish make proper table fare - but don't fret if you see more black springs bonked because people want to learn that lesson on their own.
And yes, as long as the Fraser is open for sockeye, you will notice far fewer people on the Vedder and other popular rivers. Let's hope this opening goes into late September! Bottom-bouncing for sockeye also doesn't teach you the importance of the first light bite, and the fortitude for those very chilly fall mornings!
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Intersting how the long leader, BB bashers go silent with the announcement of the upcoming sockeye season - must be busy looking for betties and tieing leaders. Don't forget your watermellon corkies boys. Oh, whatever will we do if we hook a Chinook with the long leader - will you release it? Hell no. Amazing how these things will be overlooked under the "feel good" umbrella called a harvest fishery. Suddenly long leaders and bb'ing will be okay even in the purist's eyes.
Well this will be a nice shot of income for the local vendors - we all know they could use this after the miserable past few years.
I didn't buy a salmon supplement tag/stamp year - still unsure if I want to or just buy locally caught fish. Either way - at least we'll have some Fraser Sockeye available this year and I'll be putting a few in the freezer.
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Oh, whatever will we do if we hook a Chinook with the long leader - will you release it? Hell no. Amazing how these things will be overlooked under the "feel good" umbrella called a harvest fishery. Suddenly long leaders and bb'ing will be okay even in the purist's eyes.
I wouldn't assume Chinook retention is also going to be opened, at least not for several more weeks.
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Late last week and early this week PSC was making noises about sockeye survival and high river temperatures. Recently we've seen openings in the chuck but not in the non-tidal sections of the river before so I wouldn't assume we'll see an opening above Mission in the next week or 2 either. A concern for low chinook returns & FN issues may be enough to hold that off for a few weeks.
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The river will be open it when they have a commercial opening in river. My guess is the river will be open next well or earlier.
241 in the cottonwood gilnet yesterday. Anything above 100 and they look at commercial openings.
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So with the sure to come Sockeye opening, I would imagine all you long leader bashers won't actually be using long leaders, now will you?
Nah, it's much easier to visit my native friend and barter for some freshly netted sockeye with him. No gas expenses, no traffic, no sweat, no dealing with idiots on the bar.
Besides, flossing is snagging; sportsmen don't snag. :-*
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I'm not so happy about the idea of thousands of people who usually don't fish buying bottom snagging gear for a few weeks of opening and then seeing them on the rivers in the fall, but I guess on the temporary bright side of things, there will be fewer people where I've been fishing lately once this news gets out :).
4 years ago i was a trout fisherman fishing the local stocked lakes until I got to fish for sockeye which open my eyes to coho and steelhead fishing taking trips the island with guides, bar fishing on the Fraser and other small rivers so i guess you can say it can be a gateway to the sport for some. x 2 if you ask my buddy.
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Nah, it's much easier to visit my native friend and barter for some freshly netted sockeye with him. No gas expenses, no traffic, no sweat, no dealing with idiots on the bar.
Besides, flossing is snagging; sportsmen don't snag. :-*
I have literally seen you bottom bouncing peg leg multiple times... Also purchasing salmon from a non commercial source when they haven’t had their own commercial opening is more illegal then bottom bouncing
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I have literally seen you bottom bouncing peg leg multiple times... Also purchasing salmon from a non commercial source when they haven’t had their own commercial opening is more illegal then bottom bouncing
Oh no, this bs is going to heat up quickly. :o
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Oh no, this bs is going to heat up quickly. :o
No worries. Just practicing for opening day Rieber! Flossed one already! ;D What's the limit on FWR?
BTW...did I mention "purchase"? Some people had better hone their reading skills before putting their foot in their mouths. ::)
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don't the regs say no barter in the same paragraph?
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don't the regs say no barter in the same paragraph?
Come on now, no one barters for or buys fish from the natives; They just buy really expensive ice. The fish are just free gifts from one friend to another.
All kidding aside, I hope there is an opening for socks and everyone has good time. Everyone knows what it is, so go out and have some fun. Personally, I still have a few commercial friends and if there is an opening I will go buy off of them. With the recent storms up country some of the lakes are still doing ok plus I can get some scouting in.
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BB'd, netted, bought, bartered, fly fished, Spin fished - however you aquire these wonderful missiles, they all taste the same. I honestly don't care how you get your limit as this is likely the last time we'll ever see this opening so I hope everyone gets their fill of them this year. I also hope I am very wrong about this being the last year we get an opening but from now on it will be year to year - if we're lucky every 4th year will be our only real hope for Rec openings. Let's not worry or dwell on that anymore - the damage is done and hopefully major morality factors can be mitigated to correct and enhance future returns.
Personally, I'm still on the fence about participating in this harvest this year. I didn't buy the tag/stamp and although I still have my Sockeye BB'g gear/supplies still ready and fully stocked from 6 years or so ago but I'm just not feeling the urgency anymore. I think at this stage, it would take some serious arm twisting and perfect weather conditions for me to get out on the Fraser again for sockeye. I think I'm more interested in an opportunity to buy some fresh sockeye from legal vendors (whomever they are). Maybe I buy the salmon tag and take my gear but mostly just drop the boat in the Fraser to provide a shuttle service for my buddies and just hang around the boat until they're ready to go. I don't know - I'm just not into the effort any more - I just don't feel it's the right thing to do anymore. It is what it is. :-\
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BB'd, netted, bought, bartered, fly fished, Spin fished - however you aquire these wonderful missiles, they all taste the same. I honestly don't care how you get your limit as this is likely the last time we'll ever see this opening so I hope everyone gets their fill of them this year. I also hope I am very wrong about this being the last year we get an opening but from now on it will be year to year - if we're lucky every 4th year will be our only real hope for Rec openings. Let's not worry or dwell on that anymore - the damage is done and hopefully major morality factors can be mitigated to correct and enhance future returns.
Personally, I'm still on the fence about participating in this harvest this year. I didn't buy the tag/stamp and although I still have my Sockeye BB'g gear/supplies still ready and fully stocked from 6 years or so ago but I'm just not feeling the urgency anymore. I think at this stage, it would take some serious arm twisting and perfect weather conditions for me to get out on the Fraser again for sockeye. I think I'm more interested in an opportunity to buy some fresh sockeye from legal vendors (whomever they are). Maybe I buy the salmon tag and take my gear but mostly just drop the boat in the Fraser to provide a shuttle service for my buddies and just hang around the boat until they're ready to go. I don't know - I'm just not into the effort any more - I just don't feel it's the right thing to do anymore. It is what it is. :-\
What time does your boat taxi to sockeye bar leave at?
If you feel bad about B.B. for two sockeye then just drive by the St.Elmo area and watch the FN nets getting pulled in filled high with sockeye that have been trapped in the nets for hours and died via drowning with pale coloured meat. Then look back at your two beautiful dimes in your cooler with perfect red meat and let the guilt evaporate like the sweat on my bum crack while i was B.B. with close friends on an uninhabited bar. 8)
B.B. is part of the game for catching socks and yes you can also hook springs. Some will release them, some won’t. Same thing can be said for the chum netting in the fall on the Fraser. Lots of those nets also catch Thompson steelhead and other fish but since the netting is being done by commercial and FN it seems no on cares. Those fish are in a real danger. Springs getting caught by B.B... ::) come on.
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The craigslist sockeye ads are up. Asking price is $20 per fish.
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Oh.. Up from the $12/fish that the FN band at the mouth of the Fraser was selling them last time round. Guess inflation and Justin Trudeau angel tears have increased the prices.
$6/lbs for spring in case anyone else is wondering.
Maybe we should start a separate sockeye thread for the people that are high and mighty and above bb so they know the going rate of FN sockeye prices. Wouldn't want someone to get ripped off since that's so much more of ethical way to get fish. . :P
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I have literally seen you bottom bouncing peg leg multiple times... Also purchasing salmon from a non commercial source when they haven’t had their own commercial opening is more illegal then bottom bouncing
ha ha...someone smoking dope on the bar is far more likely to get busted than someone who buys a fish from an FN!
bottom bouncing is perfectly legal in any event.
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just get your gear ready for next Tuesday, flossing and gill netting will be open that day for both user groups. this will be one last weekend for FN only inriver fisheries then it's a free for all in the river.
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FSC Fisheries Caught over 60,000 last week sockeye are around,
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/SockeyeKeptCatch.pdf
Recreational Fishing in River Is suppose to open Tuesday! Fishing shop said the email just went out
Also Area E Commecial gilnet opening from Tuesday to Thursday possible!
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Personally, I'm still on the fence about participating in this harvest this year.
Don't be Rieber!
It is very likely the last great return of sockeye in our lifetime, so we might as well make the best of the opening.
I just bought my salmon tag. Let's enjoy it! ;D
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FSC Fisheries Caught over 60,000 last week sockeye are around,
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/SockeyeKeptCatch.pdf
What do you think they'll do with the 60,000 Sockeye? That's a lot of fish.
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What do you think they'll do with the 60,000 Sockeye? That's a lot of fish.
Probably eat them all of course. What else would you do with 60,000 fish *$20 each.
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With water temperature at 19, 20C, pre-spawn mortality is going to be high. A good % of these fish will never make it to the spawning grounds, so stop fishing once you catch and retain your fish if you choose to participate when this fishery opens.
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With water temperature at 19, 20C, pre-spawn mortality is going to be high. A good % of these fish will never make it to the spawning grounds, so stop fishing once you catch and retain your fish if you choose to participate when this fishery opens.
Good advice.
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Probably eat them all of course. What else would you do with 60,000 fish *$20 each.
Geesh - there must be a lot of ceremonies.
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With water temperature at 19, 20C, pre-spawn mortality is going to be high. A good % of these fish will never make it to the spawning grounds, so stop fishing once you catch and retain your fish if you choose to participate when this fishery opens.
100% with you on that one. Get your two socks and get out of the river - but only after you catch your salmon.
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100% with you on that one. Get your two socks and get out of the river - but only after you catch your chinook salmon.
There. I fixed it for you! :-*
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Hey, If the water is low enough, can we drive across to Herrling Island or is that still a ticketable offense?
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Not interested in participating in this particular fishery but wouldn’t say no to some reasonably priced fish from the store. Last time there was a good run, I recall getting them for ~$15'ish for a dressed fish at retail.
Just like three and four years ago, we experienced anglers need to be prepared for renewed stewardship on the rivers this fall. Carry extra floats to give away, have patience, and speak softly.You will be dealing with people who literally don't know any better.
We will definitely be bracing ourselves for more of that ‘special technique’ spilling over on the other flows late this year as people look to get more value out of their annual licenses. Sometimes they are receptive; over the years I think I have converted one or two to short-floating by giving out some tackle and advice to those who expressed interest in my technique (I guess centrepin’ing looks quite interesting to someone who hasn’t seen it before). For the most part though, unless they are keeping obviously foul hooked fish, there’s not a whole lot you can say. BB’ing is 100% legal and it’s not really our place to tell people how they should or shouldn’t fish.
Bottom-bouncing for sockeye also doesn't teach you the importance of the first light bite...
True, rather it teaches you that the bite is irrelevant. If the fish dont want to bite, you 'bite' the fish instead...
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Hey, If the water is low enough, can we drive across to Herrling Island or is that still a ticketable offense?
It never was ticketable.
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There. I fixed it for you! :-*
Hey - watch it. Bar fishing and BB'ing don't mix well in the same water.
Anyways once the large waves of 3 or 4 sockeye at a time come in, they seem to push the Chinook into different water.
The Pitt Meadows sockeye extraction team doesn't leave too many sockeye to get by during daylight hours. Their operation has 4 nets staged across the river sweeping everything in their paths. There are always a minimum of three nets sweeping down. Soon as one gets to the retraction area, that one net gets pulled then raced up to the top of the run to start over and over again. Only time for a fish to get by that one quarter of the river is when the net is in the boat as it races back to the top again. Serious production here.
Regardless - it should be fun back out there. A whole new generation will be able to take part in the fist fights, cursing and carrying ons. Good times indeed.
Kind of makes me want to just go for the entertainment value. ;D
It's not all that bad but there will be the traditional hot spots. Fortunately the river is large and those that know how to read the water will find seclusion - at least until someone sees you land one then you'll have instant company.
Just think of the money that going to be spend locally be people suddenly needing supplies. I hope Island 22 is ready for the swarm.
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100% with you on that one. Get your two socks and get out of the river - but only after you catch your salmon.
It’s a nice sentiment but how can one dictate when people should have to leave the river, if they are acting within the regs. It’s legal to C&R sockeye after your limit while you try to fill the remaining limit with chum, pinks, hatch coho, springs, pikeminnow or whatever else is currently open at the time. I don’t think they mention the mortality risk with high temps in any of the notices so the majority of people out there don’t even realize it’s a potential issue. Short of some steelhead type rule, maybe in the future it should be mentioned in the openings notices, as a formal recommendation or something along those lines.
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It’s a nice sentiment but how can one dictate when people should have to leave the river, if they are acting within the regs. It’s legal to C&R sockeye after your limit while you try to fill the remaining limit with chum, pinks, hatch coho, springs, pikeminnow or whatever else is currently open at the time. I don’t think they mention the mortality risk with high temps in any of the notices so the majority of people out there don’t even realize it’s a potential issue. Short of some steelhead type rule, maybe in the future it should be mentioned in the openings notices, as a formal recommendation or something along those lines.
You can't enforce or even bother to enforce something like that. No use wasting resources even writing a regulation over it. This is very likely the last time we'll witness a Rec Sockeye opening Fraser - there are just to many factors stacked against it. It would sure be nice if people did take a proactive stand and left after they caught their first two sockeye - no matter the size or condition. Good luck with that one but maybe some will read Rod's post and they will listen - or Rod, you can get more attention to the message if you have Kitty broadcast the message. She seems to get the attention from the majority of your followers.
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Take it for what its worth but a friend of mine who guides says the opening will be on the 7th.
A few guidinging companies are advising for Aug 7th as well.
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7th to the 10th inclusive. That would make perfect sense. ::)
More likely 7th to the 28th pending water temperatures.
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With water temperature at 19, 20C, pre-spawn mortality is going to be high. A good % of these fish will never make it to the spawning grounds, so stop fishing once you catch and retain your fish if you choose to participate when this fishery opens.
temperatures at Hope are over 20.5 and trending to 21 despite the cooler weather. My bet is that if there is an opening it will be short (days) followed by a 2nd opening closer to Labour Day.
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I think we fished in water temps near 23 C one year before it was closed. Next 3 & 4 years - no fish. :(
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Is there any boat provide service to drop anglers to the bar for flossing salmon?
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temperatures at Hope are over 20.5 and trending to 21 despite the cooler weather.
Where did you get that info Ralph?
The F&O's website shows almost two degrees cooler Fraser temperatures at Hope two days ago at the peak of the heat wave:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/habitat/frw-rfo/reports-rapports/2018/2018-07-30/index-eng.html
With cooler air temps we can expect it the river to cool down even more.
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Is there any boat provide service to drop anglers to the bar for flossing salmon?
I wouldn't offer a ride to strangers and If I didn't have a boat I would stay away from taking a ride with someone you dont know. Are they insured? How would a stranger react if something went wrong ? Would they sue ? That's why commercial insurance would be helpful. Also, if something were to happen the powers that be would look into how many people you're allowed to carry, the total weight and black bla bla bla
Best to stick to Sea Bird island something for the folks that dont have a boat.
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Where did you get that info Ralph?
The F&O's website shows almost two degrees cooler Fraser temperatures at Hope two days ago at the peak of the heat wave:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/habitat/frw-rfo/reports-rapports/2018/2018-07-30/index-eng.html
With cooler air temps we can expect it the river to cool down even more.
July 29th is 4 days ago according to my fingers. I got it from the Water Office Website:
https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/google_map/google_map_e.html?search_type=province&province=BC
their data is real time.
Is there any boat provide service to drop anglers to the bar for flossing salmon?
don't believe so. Water Taxi's that drop anglers off on river bars etc may be charged for illegal guiding.
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I wouldn't offer a ride to strangers and If I didn't have a boat I would stay away from taking a ride with someone you dont know. Are they insured? How would a stranger react if something went wrong ? Would they sue ? That's why commercial insurance would be helpful. Also, if something were to happen the powers that be would look into how many people you're allowed to carry, the total weight and black bla bla bla
Best to stick to Sea Bird island something for the folks that dont have a boat.
Solid advice - everything that is helpful seems to be a liability these days. Best to work on my own timetable anyways. Can you imagine if the bugger you gave a lift to decides to walk away or hitches a ride back out without telling you? Gosh, what if the guy had a medical emergency or suddenly get a call from someone and he wants a ride back before you're ready. Definitely not worth the risk or hassle.
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Water Taxi's that drop anglers off on river bars etc may be charged for illegal guiding.
I'd love to see that stand in court. If the guy is properly insured and I say take me to 'this' bar......there is absolutely NO guiding taking place. I am merely paying for a ferry ride to my own designated destination.
By your logic a taxi driver could be charged if I asked to be taken to the Vedder river with my gear in hand....again....it would never stand in court.
On the other hand....if I asked the water taxi to take me to a bar 'where they are catching the fish'.....then yes....that could be considered guiding.
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This water taxi thing would be a good gig for Chris ;D
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This water taxi thing would be a good gig for Chris ;D
He said he sold his boat.
Need a vendors licence and BBQ - sell challupas and bouncing bettys at Peg Leg.
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As I understand some people did the water taxi thing some years back and were warned. Much the same with Helicopter service that provide service for anglers. Most pilots who still do that have a guide license. But I may be wrong. I think both water taxis and helicopter service is under federal control
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On the other hand....if I asked the water taxi to take me to a bar 'where they are catching the fish'.....then yes....that could be considered guiding.
Really?
Doesnt "guiding" involve a little more than that?
Like a little bit of expertise in showing how to rig the set up, advising on terminal gear, maybe a little bit of instruction on where and how to cast the line, maybe some actual hands on knot tying, netting the fish, supplying gear, packing a lunch for the client, etc.
I hardly think taxiing a person to where people may be catching fish could be considered guiding. But then what do i know? Nuttin'!
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On the other hand....if I asked the water taxi to take me to a bar 'where they are catching the fish'.....then yes....that could be considered guiding.
Really?
Doesnt "guiding" involve a little more than that?
Like a little bit of expertise in showing how to rig the set up, advising on terminal gear, maybe a little bit of instruction on where and how to cast the line, maybe some actual hands on knot tying, netting the fish, supplying gear, packing a lunch for the client, etc.
I hardly think taxiing a person to where people may be catching fish could be considered guiding. But then what do i know? Nuttin'!
Would it not be as simple as exchanging money for a certain service ?
You take me to place "A" with the intent to "B".
So if someone I know payed me to take them fishing, it would be considered guiding. If that person made a gas donation I assume it would not be ?
It's a fine line that's for sure.
BTW. The last set for Whonnock was brutal. 2 fish ?
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I think the Province's view and I think it has been supported by the courts, is that anyone who accepts a fee to take someone to a fishing location for the purpose of fishing amounts to a guiding service - that includes transportation and activities such as fishing lessons.
FWIW I have been out with a guide where I was put in a boat, transported to a location and told to 'fish here' which I did while the guide surfed their iPhone. I'd ask some questions as to what fly, howto fish and got answers. If we didn't catch anything in a period of time we hopped back in the boat and went somewhere else. I did catch fish that trip. On another occasion I paid as much for a day with a well known guide who selected the flies, tied them on my leader, told me where to cast, how to retrieve, on one occasion grabbed my rod from me when he thought I wasn't doing it right (he spooked the fish and swore like a long shoreman), got offered a lunch that could have fed 5 big fat Americans, had a scenic float trip down a wild river but got skunked anyway.
Ok now know where I saw this: BC Wildlife Act; Part 1 Definitions:
"guide for fish" means a person who, for compensation or reward received or promised,
(a) accompanies another person and assists that person to angle,
(b) attends another person at or near an angling site in a manner that, directly or indirectly, assists that person to angle, or
(c) transports, for the purpose of angling, another person to, from or between angling sites,
... seems to cover it.
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So... If I take my friend to the river and teach her how to fish ....I am a guide?!?
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So... If I take my friend to the river and teach her how to fish ....I am a guide?!?
Not unless she pays you.
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... or she gives you a 'reward'. ;)
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Ahhh.... got it
I missed the 'compensation.....or reward ;) ' factor.
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Have used water taxis several times in the past to get small and large groups to a bar.
The first one we used back in 2000 was called Frogstompers Water Taxi. He did have some legal issues and, if I recall, it was due to illegal guiding.
We also used a guy named **** for a 2-3 years in a row. Later I understand he stopped taxiing and became a guide with ****
Note: I was going to name the driver and the guide company but seeing what Ralph's post from the BC Wildlife Act, turns out what he was doing may have been considered guiding after all, so I'll just let sleeping dogs lie.
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Just taxi them to the spot and get paid in Bitcoins ;D
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Hahahah! Crazy!
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These folks offer water taxi out of Mission but the rates are high.
https://www.fraserriversafari.com/copy-of-peekpro-group-tours
As I said if the boat operator is a guide or assistant guide license it may not be an issue.
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Water taxi for the purpose of fishing is guiding and is illegal unless you have a guiding licence and insurance. Not to mention you cannot leave clients in unattended, this is also illegal.
If a bit of pocket cash is worth being sued by someone, than maybe it’s worth a try.
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Well, here it is. I was wrong - they are allowing retention of springs.
Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0709-RECREATIONAL - Salmon: Region 2 - Non-Tidal Fraser River - Salmon Opportunities
The current status of the Fraser River Sockeye salmon return provides for
recreational sockeye retention opportunities in Region 2 (Fraser and Harrison
Rivers).
Waters: Fraser River waters in Region 2(non-tidal waters of the Fraser River);
and that portion of the Harrison River downstream of the Highway 7 Bridge to
the confluence with the Fraser River.
Management Measures:
Effective August 7 until September 3, 2018:
- The daily limit for Sockeye salmon is two (2).
- The daily limit for Chinook salmon is four (4) with only one (1) greater than
50 cm.
Reminder: In Region 2, fishing for salmon is only permitted from one hour
before sunrise to one after sunset each day.
Variation Order No. 2018-RCT-0401, 2018-RFQ-0402 – Region 2 Quota, 2018—RFQ-403
Notes:
Single Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in non-tidal waters
of British Columbia.
Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal waters and non-
tidal waters in British Columbia.
The term "marked" means a hatchery fish that has a healed scar in place of the
adipose fin.
Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the Salmon Sport Head Recovery
program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped chinook and
coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical information for
coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head Recovery Program
toll free at (866) 483-9994 for further information.
If you’re going fishing for salmon in non-tidal (fresh) waters, you need a Non-
Tidal Angling Licence, issued by the Province of British Columbia. Visit the
provincial website to buy your licence. Licences are available to B.C.residents
and non-residents. Fees may vary and are listed online.
(www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/licences)
Anglers are advised to check http://bcsportfishguide.ca for fishing closures
and other recreational fishing information
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia’s toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).
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there will also be Commercial gillnet fisheries in the Straight and the entire river from the mouth to Mission Wednesday 7am to Thursday 7am and in the US waters at various times(these have been underway already). The in river opening in particular will impact the fishing up river sometime Thursday into the weekend. Go Tuesday Wednesday if can at all - which I can't. Sunday next weekend might be good.
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Wow even Ralph has sockeye fever
I’m glad to see everyone so happy, looks like it’s gonna be a good coho year too, they are think right now in the Straight of Georgia.
Glad to see everyone so happy, get out and have fun
Game on boys
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Water taxi for the purpose of fishing is guiding and is illegal unless you have a guiding licence and insurance. Not to mention you cannot leave clients in unattended, this is also illegal.
I'll say it again. It would never stand in court. You can't discriminate between water taxi and road taxi. If a road taxi takes me and my gear to the Vedder river....it is not different. I'm still paying someone to get me to a fishing spot. Whether it is by boat, car, bus, snowmobile, airplane....it doesn't matter. If you snowmobile me for money across to the same spot in winter as a water taxi does in summer.....what happens there??? As long as no guiding is taking place...any charge would fall flat in court. Like I said….way too many unknowns for a charge to stand in court.
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Why Aug7？ skip the long weekend
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I'll say it again. It would never stand in court. You can't discriminate between water taxi and road taxi. If a road taxi takes me and my gear to the Vedder river....it is not different. I'm still paying someone to get me to a fishing spot. Whether it is by boat, car, bus, snowmobile, airplane....it doesn't matter. If you snowmobile me for money across to the same spot in winter as a water taxi does in summer.....what happens there??? As long as no guiding is taking place...any charge would fall flat in court. Like I said….way too many unknowns for a charge to stand in court.
I worked with a guy 4 years ago who would take people out Sturgeon fishing. The people he took were all coworkers. A local guide bassed oit of Mission accused him of guiding illegaly. A few days later he ran into DFO at the Mission launch. The officer was abrupt and very vocal. He accused my old boss of guiding illegaly and if he does it again he'll have his boat seized. The officer said he got a tip from a friend.
Now. Some people think they own that launch AND the Fraser. My only advice is dont stir the pot ( whatever you do ) and avoid conflict. Even tho my old boss wasn't doing anything wrong, there are people that have good relationships with the powers that be on the water.
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DFO is never too considerate of the recreational fishing group. What seems to be so natural to open for the long weekend so more of us can head out with the family to enjoy the festivities of salmon fishing on the Fraser doesn't seem to register in the minds of those making the decision to open our fishery. Then when they have the opening for us on Tuesday, they will also soon open all the commercial nettings to make it much harder for the sporties. Most people work from Tuesday to Friday and kids may be in school still. So explaining why these DFO folk don't want the kids to join the father or grandfathers to the fishing bars can be frustrating. It almost seem like they hate to do anything to facilitate the recreational fishing group but they have to open it because the commies and commercial FNs are at it and they want our license fees.
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This has been done before - the opening after the long weekend. I also think it's wrong as they've already decided they are going to open it but is the concern that a couple thousand fish will be taken out of the system by Rec fishermen? Or do they want to ensure the "protected" sockeye get past the Rec fisheries zone without danger of all those hooks? Or does another group have a netting opportunity and they don't want to be inconvenienced by the pesky Rec fisherman with their 3oz lead ball flying around? Whatever - as Bert called it - "it is what it is".
Interesting on the Chinook retention allowance - I guess it was more work to enforce a regulation that many will ignore. Funny you didn't see the leader length request. Again I think everyone making decisions knows that the surplus sockeye is more than the rivers are going to be able to accommodate and again, why bother with an interim regulation that is just going to needlessly slow down the CO's
The only thing I was surprised with is the way the wrote that retention limit - some people are going to interpret that they are allowed to retain 2 Sockeye PLUS 4 Chinook.
I wouldn't get to excited about sockeye being open until 03 Sept. Isn't that traditionally the approximate time the Chinook 50cm reg turn into 62cm or was that the timing of near peak Coho numbers in the Fraser? Or was that the timing of the Chum netting program for roe collection?
Anyways it looks like the probability of a few weeks anyways.
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The only thing I was surprised with is the way the wrote that retention limit - some people are going to interpret that they are allowed to retain 2 Sockeye PLUS 4 Chinook.
I concur, poorly worded.
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Its been said before enough times. The fact that they are not opening this weekend is 100% politics....nothing more.....and it isn't ever going to change.
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Freds webpage says sockeye opening Aug 7th. Can anyone confirm?
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Freds webpage says sockeye opening Aug 7th. Can anyone confirm?
Yep, see the notice I posted further up on this page.
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I will be buying mine at the local wharf.
The cupboard hasnt had a jar of fish in it for a while now and will be good to stock up again.
Lightly smoked and then into the jars. :)
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With the cost of gas these days, it's way cheaper to buy them from the local fishermen.
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x2
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Yep, see the notice I posted further up on this page.
Thankyou sir! Must have btpassed it when trying to avoid all the chatter
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Wow even Ralph has sockeye fever
you've been a member here for less than 2 years and we haven't had a sockeye opening for 4? How would you know?
I’m glad to see everyone so happy, looks like it’s gonna be a good coho year too, they are think right now in the Straight of Georgia.
let's hope so. I am beginning to hope we are going to have a few good years before the next warm ocean water blob brings the next salmon collapse crisis.
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I hope everyone has fun out there as well. I'll be supporting my local tackle shops, Fraser Valley Park boat launches and local gas station by harvesting my own fish. I hope it's a good run.
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I'll say it again. It would never stand in court. You can't discriminate between water taxi and road taxi. If a road taxi takes me and my gear to the Vedder river....it is not different. I'm still paying someone to get me to a fishing spot. Whether it is by boat, car, bus, snowmobile, airplane....it doesn't matter. If you snowmobile me for money across to the same spot in winter as a water taxi does in summer.....what happens there??? As long as no guiding is taking place...any charge would fall flat in court. Like I said….way too many unknowns for a charge to stand in court.
You can say it as often as you like, Robert, but it ain’t gonna make it so.
The Act is very clear in the definition of a “guide for fish” and an “angling site”
Your taxi analogy doesn’t have wheels. Taxi companies have taxi licenses and are licensed for public transport. Buddy who charges a fee to water taxi you to a fishing location does not.
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let's hope so. I am beginning to hope we are going to have a few good years before the next warm ocean water blob brings the next salmon collapse crisis.
Next weaker Blob is already being predicted https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/el-nino-2018-noaa-prediction-1.4768316
Coho have been think now for almost a month from Campbell river down to Vancouver, Easy Limits off South Bown for almost a month now. So thick you can drag a fly in the wake with a fly rod and they will hammer them them in peel line out. Crazy fun
Hopefully that translates into some returning to the fraser this year but hard to tell.
Water temperatures tho dont look good for next week looks like another heat wave.
As you put it we may have a few good years left but the overall trend for the future and heat not so great looking,
Have fun out there Ralph
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With the cost of gas these days, it's way cheaper to buy them from the local fishermen.
Just like every fish that you’ve ever caught. Most of us fish for fun.
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Your taxi analogy doesn’t have wheels. Taxi companies have taxi licenses and are licensed for public transport. Buddy who charges a fee to water taxi you to a fishing location does not.
If you read my posts you'd see that I mentioned that a water taxi would need the proper licence and insurance, just like a regular taxi.
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haha... we need a water UBER !!!
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haha... we need a water UBER !!!
Sign me up. Would be a good way to fill the gas tank.
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Next weaker Blob is already being predicted https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/el-nino-2018-noaa-prediction-1.4768316
Coho have been think now for almost a month from Campbell river down to Vancouver, Easy Limits off South Bown for almost a month now. So thick you can drag a fly in the wake with a fly rod and they will hammer them them in peel line out. Crazy fun
Hopefully that translates into some returning to the fraser this year but hard to tell.
Water temperatures tho dont look good for next week looks like another heat wave.
As you put it we may have a few good years left but the overall trend for the future and heat not so great looking,
Have fun out there Ralph
Wouldn't be that bad. I can remeber camping at the mouth of Bog Silver Creek on Harrison lake in January with temperatures of 14 degrees. That was great.
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I was wondering if the Lanstrom/scales bar near Hope is open to fishing and if it is accessible by foot (across the railway tracks), with any parking in the area? Used to be a crowded but good production bar quite a few years ago but I recall some closures and restrictions some years ago. Anyone know the current status?
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If you read my posts you'd see that I mentioned that a water taxi would need the proper licence and insurance, just like a regular taxi.
And if you read your own posts too, you’ll see that you made no mention of licenses.
There are already legitimate water taxi companies that are insured and licensed for public transport. But that license would not allow you to contravene the Wildlife Act or limit your culpability.
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And if you read your own posts too, you’ll see that you made no mention of licenses.
Just checked my posts. I said "properly insured". You know that includes licences as well. Grow up and post something constructive for once.
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Yes, I can see this conversation will go no further until I grow up. Cheers.
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Well this thread has completely taxied off the runway..... :o
This will be my first 'Fraser Sockeye' experience ..... should be interesting..
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Well this thread has completely taxied off the runway..... :o
...
Yes it makes me think of this Monty Python sketch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxXW6tfl2Y0
... don't know why?
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Sorry....but if anyone who read ALL the posts can't see that he was trolling me, then.....well.....
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Next weaker Blob is already being predicted https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/el-nino-2018-noaa-prediction-1.4768316
Coho have been think now for almost a month from Campbell river down to Vancouver, Easy Limits off South Bown for almost a month now. So thick you can drag a fly in the wake with a fly rod and they will hammer them them in peel line out. Crazy fun
Wow, bucktailing just like the old days. Never had a chance to enjoy that. I have seen the reports from up Island but most coho were 'at depth' as they were before they abandoned the Straight for the outside waters.
FWIW most of the climate change model applications for Pacific Salmon have predicted a sort of diminishing sine wave abundance behaviour. Periods of high abundance followed by low abundance with an overall trend of diminishing abundance over a few decades.
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Yes, I can see this conversation will go no further until I grow up. Cheers.
Ughhhh ::) enough already about the water taxis. It’s a three person conversion and no else cares anymore ... let’s get back to the sock talk.
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Ughhhh ::) enough already about the water taxis. It’s a three person conversion and no else cares anymore ... let’s get back to the sock talk.
Your socks don't match and they have holes in them. ::)
Just get your bb'ing gear ready. ;D
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Your socks don't match and they have holes in them. ::)
I spent all my money on bouncy Bettie and 18ft long leaders. I needed to skimp somewhere. You can't see the holes in my socks when I'm knee deep in the Fraser.
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I spent all my money on bouncy Bettie and 18ft long leaders. I needed to skimp somewhere. You can't see the holes in my socks when I'm knee deep in the Fraser.
Oh snap - I just finished tieing up 50 10' leaders and not the standard is 18' :o Dang it - I wasted all that time and leader - oh well, I still have time to salvage the hooks by cutting them off and then will wrap up some 20' leads just to make sure. I'm gonna be honest, I'm a little scared to cast those long leaders. I'll have to lay them out befhind me but the current is going to drag them down stream behind me and when I cast I might hook my hat.
If I hook a Spring with the long leader and have to jump into the boat to chase it down, I'll never be able to net the beast unless I drag him around until he drowns. Oh well, so much for catch and release.
All seriously though, I don't like leaders so long that they tough the water behind me when I go to cast. I sort of like the leader to be about a foot less than the rod I use.
All this silly talk about the long leaders and over playing fish is kind of turning me off the urge to get out for Socks. I'm struggling with the thought of going out for them socks. Who knows - maybe I'll find myself out there.
Good luck out there, it's bound to be a good time.
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Just went to Cabelas for a new pair of flip flops. It was a GONG SHOW. The lineup for new reels getting spooked was 14 people deep. I then went to Fred's to get two eats reels spoiled and it was dead.
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I just got back from a drive around the Fraser to look at a few access spots.
Old Orchard launch has cement blocks blocking access. The area has filled in withe so much gravel that as the water drops even more this launch is effectively useless.
Peg Leg - the river channel is swift and deep so there won't be any access there. Can't park anywhere along the channel below Peg Leg as there are concrete barriers all along the channel.
Jesperson - not much room there for parking trucks with trailer. Guy is going to have to be there at 4:00am to get a parking spot and to get in line to launch a boat.
Gill - so many people there camping in the dusty parking lot - nuts. I see a couple truck with campers and boats drove across to shallows to the bar downstream of the launch.
Ferry landing packed with campers. Good luck getting a spot on Tuesday.
I didn't bother going to Herrling or up to Laidlaw - don't know if it's safe to cross to the bar.
Boat launch onthe North side of the Harrison was packed with truck and trailer. Kilby was packed as well with beach users.
Saw a boat on trailer coming up from Dewdney Slough launch road but I didn't bother going down to check with all the traffic.
Mission launch looked packed.
River is still pretty high so the banks are going to be pretty dangerous to walk in from the freeway. Be careful out there on Tuesday.
Sad that river access is not as friendly as it once was.
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I just got back from a drive around the Fraser to look at a few access spots.
Old Orchard launch has cement blocks blocking access. The area has filled in withe so much gravel that as the water drops even more this launch is effectively useless.
Peg Leg - the river channel is swift and deep so there won't be any access there. Can't park anywhere along the channel below Peg Leg as there are concrete barriers all along the channel.
Jesperson - not much room there for parking trucks with trailer. Guy is going to have to be there at 4:00am to get a parking spot and to get in line to launch a boat.
Gill - so many people there camping in the dusty parking lot - nuts. I see a couple truck with campers and boats drove across to shallows to the bar downstream of the launch.
Ferry landing packed with campers. Good luck getting a spot on Tuesday.
I didn't bother going to Herrling or up to Laidlaw - don't know if it's safe to cross to the bar.
Boat launch onthe North side of the Harrison was packed with truck and trailer. Kilby was packed as well with beach users.
Saw a boat on trailer coming up from Dewdney Slough launch road but I didn't bother going down to check with all the traffic.
Mission launch looked packed.
River is still pretty high so the banks are going to be pretty dangerous to walk in from the freeway. Be careful out there on Tuesday.
Sad that river access is not as friendly as it once was.
Island 22 but there is a charge, I think it is $10. The good part your vehicle should be fairly safe from Vandalism with so much traffic there.
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$10/launch or $50/year pass. Pass is also good at the Dewdney boat launch and vice versa
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^yes sir
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Yes, Island 22 is definitely your best bet for launching and vehicle safety. I'll bet the line up at the gate Tuesday morning will be right near to the turn-off. ;D
I laugh to my self thinking how many times I waited at the gate just hoping it would open early. Not doing that any more.
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Yup. Got to get out early. Sockeye is a first light fishery... LOL
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Yup. Got to get out early. Sockeye is a first light fishery... LOL
i also took a drive around, and was amazed by the amount of people camping out on the bars.... getting ready to hold there hot spot, idunno
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Yup. Got to get out early. Sockeye is a first light fishery... LOL
And make sure you wade out as far as you can. :o I filmed this a few years ago at the Scale Bar. https://youtu.be/tijX2TcXxy0
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i also took a drive around, and was amazed by the amount of people camping out on the bars.... getting ready to hold there hot spot, idunno
I know several groups of people that plan on camping and casting for a few days. This is why I wish they had kept the Springs closed. I wonder how many people will be setup all day long.
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Just went to Cabelas for a new pair of flip flops. It was a GONG SHOW. The lineup for new reels getting spooked was 14 people deep. I then went to Fred's to get two eats reels spoiled and it was dead.
What time were u there? I got mine done right away. Cabelas is having a 20% off sale. Prices very competitive.
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What time were u there? I got mine done right away. Cabelas is having a 20% off sale. Prices very competitive.
Was there around 2pm
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after watching Chris video of sockeye flossing, I decided not to go
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after watching Chris video of sockeye flossing, I decided not to go
Go for the entertainment ;D
Bring Popcorn and a comfy chair.
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Like i said on the other thread i find it very unfortunate that they are basically allowing snagging for Chinook as well as the Sockeye.
What a bloody shame this river has become.
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One sockeye opening in 4 years and you think bottom bouncing is the tragic activity that’s happening to the Fraser. Get a grip or go back to screaming reels with that washed up drunk idiot from deroche.
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I see on social media that some folks are throwing betties out there already to "Test the current". Crazy
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Gong Show.... no thanks.
I would rather fish for Bass in local lakes than be around the Fraser next week.
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Gong Show.... no thanks.
I would rather fish for Bass in local lakes than be around the Fraser next week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxQqdFOeoM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxQqdFOeoM) ;D
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Yup. Got to get out early. Sockeye is a first light fishery... LOL
Go early to get the best parking spot for your truck, the best snag free and best anchoring spot. The fish will come throughout the day. Plus you can get your fish and get home before the heat of the day cooks you crispy.
Now - I don't care. I don't need to see this crap anymore. I like the air conditioning at Save-On where the Sockeye are already on ice.
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One sockeye opening in 4 years and you think bottom bouncing is the tragic activity that’s happening to the Fraser. Get a grip or go back to screaming reels with that washed up drunk idiot from deroche.
Well,that was rather rude of you.
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Just chatted with a commercial fisherman in Ft Langley.
He says the fish have not reached up that far in the river yet - the fish are around the Port Mann bridge.
There was a recent 4 hour commercial opening and he only caught 20 fish - others had up to 50.
Doesn't sound good but I will be out with the masses tomorrow.
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Just chatted with a commercial fisherman in Ft Langley.
He says the fish have not reached up that far in the river yet - the fish are around the Port Mann bridge.
There was a recent 4 hour commercial opening and he only caught 20 fish - others had up to 50.
Doesn't sound good but I will be out with the masses tomorrow.
The F/N have been doing well all through the system the last while even saw that when I was up at Lytton this past week. Trying to discourage you.lol
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Albion testt fishery caught 70 today with chinook mesh. Lots of fish in the system.
Commercial guys will be hammering them over the next couple of days, usual creates a hole for a few days In Chilliwack a couple days after so the weekend will probably be not so great.
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday tho should be good near Chilliwack.
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Like i said on the other thread i find it very unfortunate that they are basically allowing snagging for Chinook as well as the Sockeye.
What a bloody shame this river has become.
We been sitting on the sidelines for 4 yrs now while other users groups net the crap out of everything. Maybe direct your anger at DFO instead of the recreational fishing sector that gets an opening every 4 yrs.
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wrong thread...
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We been sitting on the sidelines for 4 yrs now while other users groups net the crap out of everything. Maybe direct your anger at DFO instead of the recreational fishing sector that gets an opening every 4 yrs.
Who do you think "they"are in my post?
No anger here ,just very disapointed.
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Gong Show.... no thanks.
I would rather fish for Bass in local lakes than be around the Fraser next week.
Yes, it is a gong show, there's no question about it.
I look at it no different than let say a rock concert. It's entertainment and if you wanna be at the front you gotta pay the price. But in the end it's all good and most everyone is happy. So there ya go, I'm heading Wednesday first light. Good luck everyone :)
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So many better ways / more peaceful ways . to spend a nice day outdoors.....
Fraser river for sockeye season - no thanks.
https://www.abbynews.com/news/chilliwacks-island-22-opens-early-as-sockeye-season-returns/
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2 sockeye and one red spring vacuumed sealed and in the freezer for me. My friend lost a giant Spring too. It was very slow, tons of boats and lots of looky loos putting in the middle of the river too. Overall had a good day. I was surprised to see all those people. The bar where I was at was 100% full. So full that some people beached their boats and waded out only to snag in anchor lines. People were nice and very peaceful.
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2 sockeye and one red spring vacuumed sealed and in the freezer for me. My friend lost a giant Spring too. It was very slow, tons of boats and lots of looky loos putting in the middle of the river too. Overall had a good day. I was surprised to see all those people. The bar where I was at was 100% full. So full that some people beached their boats and waded out only to snag in anchor lines. People were nice and very peaceful.
That sounds pretty typical for Grassy Bar.
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That sounds pretty typical for Grassy Bar.
3 fish in the morning seems not slow
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Was slow compared if you factor in everyone else. I talked with 4 boat owners at the launch and one fish per boat seemed the average
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I think everyone's expectations are too high. I can't remember an early August that was particularly hot fishing. Lucky to get a limit of sockeye. Adding a spring makes an excellent day.
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Had to work hard this morning (4 hrs) for a limit of Sockeye on a upper Fraser bar. Not many fish were caught. Everyone was polite and respectful towards each other. Was awesome to be out there again after 4 yrs sitting on the sidelines. Fresh salmon on the Bbq tonight. My family will be very thankful for it.
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I made a tour of the river today and cleaned up some garbage. I have pictures on the FVSS FB page of what it looked like out there.
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Pedal to the metal men! 8)
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I made a tour of the river today and cleaned up some garbage. I have pictures on the FVSS FB page of what it looked out there.
What about those of us who don't do Facebook. That's discrimination Chris! :'(
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One fish for me today - doesn't seem to be too many fish in the river.
Only saw a few other fish caught today.
Should pick up later in the week - tides were all wrong today as well.
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I made a tour of the river today and cleaned up some garbage. I have pictures on the FVSS FB page of what it looked out there.
Is it any good on the BBQ?
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What about those of us who don't do Facebook. That's discrimination Chris! :'(
Sorry but too complicated for an old guy like me to put pictures here. I have told Rod a few times why not make it as simple as FB.lol
I will put a video up tomorrow here for you that shows the scene but I am sure you know what it looks like.lol
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My old rule of thumb for B.B. was not to bother going out till a few days after the whonick gilnet was over 100.
I’ve seen some of the pictures of how busy it is. No thanks I’ll wait
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After talking with 6 people I Know it sounded very slow all around. If you caught your limit you were the minority.
It amazes me to see how many people that lack the ability to read the water. We found a perfect seam that everyone in out area overlooked.
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Read the water so true.
A young fellow has a fish on, working the bottom of the run. He went into the water after the fish, on sand!!! The bottom fell away from him. He fighting for his life, no one noticed, I am now yelling and running get him, he made it out. I grab him, I am an old guy been working on this river all my life. This is a run, there’s a, back eddy, soft water, and look at all the sand, soft bottom.
Really freak me out!
No one noticed him, no one told him,
Pass it on, and stay safe out there.
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Read the water so true.
A young fellow has a fish on, working the bottom of the run. He went into the water after the fish, on sand!!! The bottom fell away from him. He fighting for his life, no one noticed, I am now yelling and running get him, he made it out. I grab him, I am an old guy been working on this river all my life. This is a run, there’s a, back eddy, soft water, and look at all the sand, soft bottom.
Really freak me out!
No one noticed him, no one told him,
Pass it on, and stay safe out there.
Well done in help save his life. Always remember the water can claim ones life any minute. Too many people drown in BC each year. No fish is worth taking a chance. Make sure you wear a inflatable life vest when in a boat, you will notice Rodney always wears ones in his videos. Some people wear a flotation vest when even fishing from shore.
When I was younger and foolish I hardly had a life preserver on when in a boat, silly
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What about those of us who don't do Facebook. That's discrimination Chris! :'(
For Milo the non FB user. ;D ;D I hope you are doing well Milo. https://youtu.be/f8dxPt5ics4
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Managed 1 between two of us last night. Took a while to get all the bugs out of our arms and equipment. Only a few people got fish.
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For Milo the non FB user. ;D ;D I hope you are doing well Milo. https://youtu.be/f8dxPt5ics4
Thanks Chris! Much appreciated. :)
Looks like summer wonderland out there. Can't wait for the weekend.
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Managed 1 between two of us last night. Took a while to get all the bugs out of our arms and equipment. Only a few people got fish.
Took the boat out last night 5-8pm and got my 2. Was out again first light this morning and got my 2 and back home in Cloverdale by 9. Beat the heat today! Lost several at the boat because it’s just me and have to hand bomb those dam long leaders.
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Still not fully on, but not too shabby. Most peoplr had several hookups, no springs though.
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went to scale yesterday with my 78 year old fishing buddy and found two 3ft piles of bolders blocking the path no way round so he barely made it over ,so if you have any walking problems take note. I don't know who did this but they are libel if someone gets hurt. is this crown or private land. fishing was quite slow.
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Fishing was okay this morning even tho it was spotty at times where we were. Just a heads up to all the people launching their boats at gill road and jesperson launch iv found a shitload of fresh unrusted nails where the boats launch at both locations that looked intentionally placed so keep an eye out. Maybe a native or some purist vigilante lashing out . Just bought a pass at island 22 this morning problem solved.
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went to scale yesterday with my 78 year old fishing buddy and found two 3ft piles of bolders blocking the path no way round so he barely made it over ,so if you have any walking problems take note. I don't know who did this but they are libel if someone gets hurt. is this crown or private land. fishing was quite slow.
Good grief. Even if he's super fit, you're just asking for trouble taking a 78 year old down to the Scale Bar - especially in this heat. No to mention the river current. Just my opinion and of course not all 78 year olds are physically equal. and of course he's fit if you even considered taking him there.
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went to scale yesterday with my 78 year old fishing buddy and found two 3ft piles of bolders blocking the path no way round so he barely made it over ,so if you have any walking problems take note. I don't know who did this but they are libel if someone gets hurt. is this crown or private land. fishing was quite slow.
Is that on the old railway grade?
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they are both below the railway tracks before the old road that is left of the path. he wanted to take a look not fish as he used to go for the last 20 yrs he fished 4 yrs ago but these rock piles were not there,these are sharp rocks not round.
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they are both below the railway tracks before the old road that is left of the path. he wanted to take a look not fish as he used to go for the last 20 yrs he fished 4 yrs ago but these rock piles were not there,these are sharp rocks not round.
Again these dang ATV created a need for yet another obstacle to keep them out - pedestrians be damned.
Well, 78 and he wanted to go there - I'm impressed. :o
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that was the last time for him.
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Today was better than yesterday; two on the beach in less than an hour and helped a 93 year old land his two...nice to see the enthusiasm at that age! Upper river between Chilliwack and Hope...Off tomorrow because of the commercial opening today...
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Went out for 2 hours with the wife in the evening ::) . Only one in the boat and lost 4. We anchored in line with everyone else but noticed no fish getting caught and plenty of riders 60 feet out. Makes sense. It was deeper and probably cooler water. We pulled anchor and got closer. The guys up stream were pissed but when they saw me hooke 5 fish in 30min they moved out too.
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Why would they be pissed?
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Why would they be pissed?
Because you are potentially putting your anchor line right at the end of their drift - effectively cutting off their drift.
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Anchored since 6am. Fishing straight till now, not one fish. Nobody is landing anything within ear shot of me as well. I did see three risers early on but nothing on a line
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Anchored since 6am. Fishing straight till now, not one fish. Nobody is landing anything within ear shot of me as well. I did see three risers early on but nothing on a line
With the commercial opening below the Mission bridge, that is to be expected
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Yup.
Just giving folks a report incase they plan on heading out today.
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Next you'll see that the Panel that meets tomorrow will have decided to immediately close the river due to not enough Sockeye salmon getting past Hope. :'(
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Is that on the old railway grade?
Its where the two rock piles on the main path have always been. In recent years, the path just went thru the rock piles, but it seems like sometime in the last few years, somebody decided to stack rocks and make the trail inaccessible. Only option is to go over. A couple fit guys and an hour of work could easily clear out the trail.
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I'd like to try this fishery for my first time. Coming from downtown Vancouver are there any bars worth trying below Mission? Or do you need to be at Chilliwack or higher? I don't mind the crowds
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Its where the two rock piles on the main path have always been. In recent years, the path just went thru the rock piles, but it seems like sometime in the last few years, somebody decided to stack rocks and make the trail inaccessible. Only option is to go over. A couple fit guys and an hour of work could easily clear out the trail.
Sure - but if that rock was placed there by the Municipality to ward off ATV traffic to the area then wouldn't your actions to remove that rock be a form vandalism and you would be subject to a criminal charge, fine or served invoice for the replacement cost? Just wondering and not specifically calling you out but using "you" as whomever was involved with the removal (if it ever happened)?
If it's on the old CPR line then they may have put it there. My bet it's the municipality to satisfy the property owners. Remember the problems they had with litter and people crapping on their properties. Then suddenly parking access disappeared and vehicles were being towed.
Please don't do anything to lose more fishing access points on the river. Thanks.
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I'd like to try this fishery for my first time. Coming from downtown Vancouver are there any bars worth trying below Mission? Or do you need to be at Chilliwack or higher? I don't mind the crowds
In order to bounce for sockeye, you have the most success fishing the gravel reaches of the Fraser. These are located above the vedder confluence.
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After yesterday's commercial opening how long will it take river to recover? Could one expect normal numbers of sockeye by Saturday?
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On average Sockey can travel up to 50klm a day. So...... tomorrow into the weekend. Pending another opening of Aboriginal or commercial openings. Friday may bring another announcement. Who knows. I'm good with an Aboriginal opening. The last one still left fish in the river.
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After yesterday's commercial opening how long will it take river to recover? Could one expect normal numbers of sockeye by Saturday?
Takes a couple of days after a commie opening to affect the upper Frsear bars. Expect slow fishing this weekend.
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We allways figured about 40 hours after a commercial opening.
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Everyone was polite and respectful towards each other.
Good to hear! I bottom bounced the Fraser near Agassiz bridge for literally an hour four years ago and am in no rush to do it again as I witnessed a couple complete A-holes being lippy to the less experienced fishermen around them. Not helping at all - only intimidating. Luckily the universe felt the same way as one of the morons snapped his rod as he was backing his Sockeye up the beach instead of reeling in ::) Hearing him swear and get all mad was music to my ears.
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Landed two today at one of the busy bars in about 4 hours.
Had one on around the 10th cast but it came off pretty quick.
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Landed two today at one of the busy bars in about 4 hours.
Had one on around the 10th cast but it came off pretty quick.
Was there much activity around you? Based on the low catch I saw (and heard about) the last couple of days, and the gillnet fishery winding up early this morning, I would expect there wasn't a lot of fish action
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The only other fish I saw caught was in my spot 5 minutes after I finished while I was cleaning my fish.
Guess I had the hotspot today.
There were fish jumping in the middle of the river, though.
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Was there much activity around you? Based on the low catch I saw (and heard about) the last couple of days, and the gillnet fishery winding up early this morning, I would expect there wasn't a lot of fish action
I fished from 6am till noon. Fished two bars. I saw 2 fish get flossed. That's it ! Both fish that were hooked had an audience a mile long with fishermen salivating and licking their lips. It was dead. At the boat launch everyone I talked to said no fish. I did however see a lot of pictures online about people getting limits so........... idk
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3 guys for 3 hours last night and only touched one fish for a few seconds. Weds afternoon, 3 guys and 35 minutes we had our 6 fish bonked plus 5 lost...
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I fished from 6am till noon. Fished two bars. I saw 2 fish get flossed. That's it ! Both fish that were hooked had an audience a mile long with fishermen salivating and licking their lips. It was dead. At the boat launch everyone I talked to said no fish. I did however see a lot of pictures online about people getting limits so........... idk
Looks like it has been very slim pickin's; the albion test catches for this week during the rec opening reflect what we're experiencing...
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3 guys for 3 hours last night and only touched one fish for a few seconds. Weds afternoon, 3 guys and 35 minutes we had our 6 fish bonked plus 5 lost...
Maybe bring 6 guys and increase your odds :o ;D ;D ;D
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Sure - but if that rock was placed there by the Municipality to ward off ATV traffic to the area then wouldn't your actions to remove that rock be a form vandalism and you would be subject to a criminal charge, fine or served invoice for the replacement cost? Just wondering and not specifically calling you out but using "you" as whomever was involved with the removal (if it ever happened)?
Cleared or not, one still wouldn't be able to get an ATV thru
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Amazing to look at the Misson Hydro-acoustic numbers. Sockeye passing was 60,000 to 100,000 before the commercial opening. Now only 8000 passed yesterday. Discouraging to say the least.
01-Aug 108,400
02-Aug 146,400
03-Aug 115,900
04-Aug 83,700
05-Aug 66,700
06-Aug 57,300
07-Aug 63,200
08-Aug 37,000
09-Aug 8,000
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would the Municipality of hope pile up sharp rocks with a rusty old bed mixed in, sounds like locals did it.and no notice posted.
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Amazing to see look at the Misson Hydro-acoustic numbers. Sockeye passing was 60,000 to 100,000 before the commercial opening. Now only 8000 passed yesterday. Discouraging to say the least.
01-Aug 108,400
02-Aug 146,400
03-Aug 115,900
04-Aug 83,700
05-Aug 66,700
06-Aug 57,300
07-Aug 63,200
08-Aug 37,000
09-Aug 8,000
Didn't the notice say the majority of the fish have passed through and this is why the opening were scheduled when they were? Once the commercial openings begin you would expect the numbers to dramatically drop but you would also expect the amount of sockeye making their way through to start dropping as well. Sure would be interesting to know how many make it past Hope.
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Maybe bring 6 guys and increase your odds :o ;D ;D ;D
pack the boat tomorrow?
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Looks like a small Tswassen band opening on the weekend and another commercial opening for Wens Area 29 E I believe. Can anyone break down where these sub area a b c and so on are ?
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Looks like a small Tswassen band opening on the weekend and another commercial opening for Wens Area 29 E I believe. Can anyone break down where these sub area a b c and so on are ?
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/maps-cartes/salmon-saumon/index-eng.html
Of the ones named, G would be the only one without much impact to this fishery...
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So 1.3 million fish last Mission to August 9th, declining test fisheries “due to algae blooms” up around the northern Island, a few good seine catches around the southern end of the Island. What’s the current p50 forecast for the total run now? Have the late run stocks hit the approach areas?
4 years from now when the big cycle yields less than 5 million fish, where will the blame fall? Degrading ocean conditions, high mortality from en route temperature extremes, habitat destruction, nutrient poor lakes?
I hate to speak for breaking the rules, but why do people consciously live by the rules set forth by the DFO? Their management objectives clearly reflect the current status of salmon populations coast wide.......
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http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/maps-cartes/salmon-saumon/index-eng.html
Thank you !
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So 1.3 million fish last Mission to August 9th, declining test fisheries “due to algae blooms” up around the northern Island, a few good seine catches around the southern end of the Island. What’s the current p50 forecast for the total run now? Have the late run stocks hit the approach areas?
4 years from now when the big cycle yields less than 5 million fish, where will the blame fall? Degrading ocean conditions, high mortality from en route temperature extremes, habitat destruction, nutrient poor lakes?
I hate to speak for breaking the rules, but why do people consciously live by the rules set forth by the DFO? Their management objectives clearly reflect the current status of salmon populations coast wide.......
The last statement from DFO explained things clear as mud. Their words clearly recognize the two user groups that harvested the most salmon so far. Now, I'm not getting into why the numbers overall are are falling. That's another discussion for another day.
Quote " Gill net test fishery catches in the Fraser River have declined in recent days largely as a result of the numerous fisheries that have been occurring in the river (commercial and First Nations) ".
Is it my fault because I've harvested 5 fish so far ? Sure a little. But the rec folks take a flash in the pan compared to those two user groups outlined in the last statement.
Also, they state the run size estimate has not changed.
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From FN 0597 (July 13):
"...To put the sockeye run size forecast uncertainty into context, there is a one
in four chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or below
8,423,000 fish (the 25% probability level forecast) and there is a one in four
chance that the actual number of returning sockeye will be at or above
22,937,000 fish (the 75% probability level forecast). For pre-season planning
purposes, the Fraser Panel used the 50% probability level forecast (equal
chance of a higher or lower return) of 13,981,000 fish for all management
groups. This is similar to the cycle average of 13.7 million. The largest
contributing stocks for the 2018 return are expected to be the Late Shuswap,
Chilko, Quesnel, and Early Shuswap...."
From today's updates:
"...Currently the Early Summer group is tracking below the p50 forecast of 2,155,000...."
"... Assessments for the Summer-run group are ongoing and are looking as large as or larger than the p50 forecast of 4,344,000...."
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It's normal that catch number will drop after some days of sustained fishing. Commercial fishing have been going on in the river and in US waters through the week if FN fishing with allowance for sales is included. Usually within 2 days or so number will rise provided there are no further fisheries of any significance.
The vast majoirty of the Fraser sockeye are caught in areas 13, 20 and 29 plus US waters from Point Roberts south and west to the San Juan Islands.
As far as what the P50 forecast is - it is still about 14 million. The early Stuart run isn't big enough to make a difference. The early Summer run is lower than expected. They haven't fully assessed the summer run & while it looks to be better than the P50 they usually wait to adopt a new forecast until it's believed most of the fish are off the Fraser mouth or in the river.
The late run fish don't usually show in numbers until the last half of August.
So far this year it is the 1st return since 2014 that has shown to be better than the P50 forecast and in most cases it was much lower. If you look you can find the escapement reports for '15, '16 and '17 on the PSC site.
Exactly what does " ...why do people consciously live by the rules set forth by the DFO?" mean.
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Commercial and First Nations catch so has been about a million sockeye
https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11296/august-10-2018-2.pdf
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Commercial and First Nations catch so has been about a million sockeye
https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11296/august-10-2018-2.pdf
half of that has been caught by US fishermen.
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Yeah low diversion rate, USA will get a bunch this year. Must be colder outside waters
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Exactly what does " ...why do people consciously live by the rules set forth by the DFO?" mean.
Wrong word used in that sentence; blindly, repeatedly, foolishly could all be substituted to replace consciously........
I don't post here often, but am always lurking...... my point of emphasis is not to cast shame or doubt at the recreational sector, I've fished the Skeena for sockeye all my life and it never really was "a thing" like it is on the Fraser. But I did stand up and take notice 8 years ago when the bumper crop came back and shocked us all. 30 million fish, then 4 years ago it was 20 million fish, now this year it's 13 million fish. Don't be surprised when in 2022 when 8.5 come back and then in 2026 a measly 5 million come back.
I won't pretend to be a scientist, and I'd never claim to know a fraction of what they know when predicting and making management decisions; however, I do believe they have little to no regard for the impact of recreational fisherman and the economic spinoffs they bring. Just this year they (for the first time that I can recall) shut down the entire Skeena drainage due to fears of bad spring/summer Chinook returns as well as dismal sockeye returns. But when the sockeye came back resurgently strong and passed the 600k mark set out in the IFMP, the bag fleet and gill nets were let out every second day. Chinook numbers according to the test fisheries were as strong as any in the past 8 years, yet DFO didn't allow a recreational opening until long after the FN were doing their thing and the boys at the mouth were cleaning up their quota.
So I guess my argument is more towards, rules are rules, laws are laws, breaking them can bring about some serious punishment, but don't blindly believe everything they say and question them every step of the way on the decisions they make.
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I have never had the pleasure of being in town during August in a sockeye peak year. I'm back home in Vancouver on August 27. Do y'all think that will be too late to fish sockeye by boat in the salt (by Steveston or wherever)?
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4 years ago, in Sept 9th
You should be good on the 27th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH0Qi6s8ivw
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Anyone have the misson hydro acoustics numbers from 2014? I cant seem to find the archive data for this on the website.
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Whonnock gillnet over 200 yesterday,
Monday should be a slaughter out their. Maybe sunday too!
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BBarley I still don't know what you are getting at.
Good bad or indifferent DFO has little credibility. On the Fraser, salmon fishing has been restricted similar to the Skeena Fraser and there has been talk of protest fisheries.
FWIW DFO has little power in the big picture. Business interests, resource extraction and money are more important.
Who votes for a politician or party that runs on a platform of " More salmon, fewer jobs and a lower standard of living"?
Your points about salmon abundance or kind of all wet. The abundance has always been greatly variable. Yeah 2010 was an historic high return but 2009 was a total bust. About 1/10th of the forecast return. You think there is no relationship?
Back in the 90s the Adams River stock was in big trouble and it looked like that would be lost. But it recovered.
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BBarley I still don't know what you are getting at.
Good bad or indifferent DFO has little credibility. On the Fraser, salmon fishing has been restricted similar to the Fraser and there has been talk of protest fisheries.
FWIW DFO has little power in the big picture. Business interests, resource extraction and money are more important.
Who votes for a politician or party that runs on a platform of " More salmon, fewer jobs and a lower standard of living"?
Your points about salmon abundance or kind of all wet. The abundance has always been greatly variable. Yeah 2010 was an historic high return but 2009 was a total bust. About 1/10th of the forecast return. You think there is no relationship?
Back in the 90s the Adams River stock was in big trouble and it looked like that would be lost. But it recovered.
You're bang on. Big business really trumps everything in the western world. With the corporate world controlling western democracies and first nations always threatening long court battles it seems like itll be a never ending issue till the salmon either come back with averagance or die off completely.
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BBarley I still don't know what you are getting at.
Good bad or indifferent DFO has little credibility. On the Fraser, salmon fishing has been restricted similar to the Skeena Fraser and there has been talk of protest fisheries.
FWIW DFO has little power in the big picture. Business interests, resource extraction and money are more important.
Who votes for a politician or party that runs on a platform of " More salmon, fewer jobs and a lower standard of living"?
Your points about salmon abundance or kind of all wet. The abundance has always been greatly variable. Yeah 2010 was an historic high return but 2009 was a total bust. About 1/10th of the forecast return. You think there is no relationship?
Back in the 90s the Adams River stock was in big trouble and it looked like that would be lost. But it recovered.
I totally agree, well said Ralph
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RalphH, it's more of a rant at as you said "the credibility of the DFO" I'm not even too sure what I was getting at...... ;D ;D ;D
I'm not advocating for a complete halt to resource development or a anti-business enviro government by any means, merely poking holes at what could be easily equated as a mismanagement of stocks up and down the coast that will one day cost us our great salmon and steelhead runs.
I guess my question is, with all the uncertainty and variability in returns based on the great unknown of survival rates in the Pacific, combined with the perpetually changing onshore habitat challenges.... why isn't there more done in the way of allowing more spawners on the beds? I just used the 1:0.66666 spawner to offspring ratio as an example with the big run on the Fraser. At which point is it determined that there will be ESSR (Excess salmon to spawning requirements) and there would be redd destruction by overspawning?
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4 years ago, in Sept 9th
You should be good on the 27th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH0Qi6s8ivw
Thank you kanuckle head!!
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Was out yesterday for 8 hours, didn't see any risers and didn't get a single hook up, only saw 2 fish caught on the stretches of river we covered.
Was out today and our group of 4 got our limit in a couple hours and saw many others limiting out very quickly. I will certainly take the advice of others here and not fish too close after a commercial opening in the future. What a difference a day makes. ;)
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Was out yesterday for 8 hours, didn't see any risers and didn't get a single hook up, only saw 2 fish caught on the stretches of river we covered.
Was out today and our group of 4 got our limit in a couple hours and saw many others limiting out very quickly. I will certainly take the advice of others here and not fish too close after a commercial opening in the future. What a difference a day makes. ;)
Possible Commercial opening on Wednesday and F/N ecnomic opportunity today.
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Was out yesterday for 8 hours, didn't see any risers and didn't get a single hook up, only saw 2 fish caught on the stretches of river we covered.
Was out today and our group of 4 got our limit in a couple hours and saw many others limiting out very quickly. I will certainly take the advice of others here and not fish too close after a commercial opening in the future. What a difference a day makes. ;)
It really depends on a few factors. First off keep in mind that 50klm klm rule when going after salmon in the rivers. Then, map things out on google earth. If the openings are Portman and down, map out from the port man up to hope. You should find out how long you have to fish up river. Then, when the netting is over, map from far out of the mouth up river. You can fish down after an opening. From the mouth to Bowman bar is 100klm. So, 2 days. That makes sense because the last 24 hour opening ended at 7am ( if im right ) on Thursday morning. It was the whole tidal. So the fishing should have picked up around Bowman bar at 7am on Sat morning and November up thru the day. Reports at Gill yesterday were bad in the AM but in the late afternoon people were hammering them.
It's easy to figure out.
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Activity yesterday. :-[ https://youtu.be/gf2d3y0wTYk
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It really depends on a few factors. First off keep in mind that 50klm klm rule when going after salmon in the rivers. Then, map things out on google earth. If the openings are Portman and down, map out from the port man up to hope. You should find out how long you have to fish up river. Then, when the netting is over, map from far out of the mouth up river. You can fish down after an opening. From the mouth to Bowman bar is 100klm. So, 2 days. That makes sense because the last 24 hour opening ended at 7am ( if im right ) on Thursday morning. It was the whole tidal. So the fishing should have picked up around Bowman bar at 7am on Sat morning and November up thru the day. Reports at Gill yesterday were bad in the AM but in the late afternoon people were hammering them.
It's easy to figure out.
Excellent advice, thanks!
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Westside, eh? This guy is good, he really breaks down the b-b'ing rigging for you. He points out that some guys are using 20' leaders but he prefers to only use 12'.
Apprearntly 20-25# fluorocarbon line is the key so the fish don't see the leader. ::)
Hmmmm - good advice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HwOfL_xLU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HwOfL_xLU)
You decide if this helps you. That braided knot does look good though.
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Excellent advice, thanks!
My phone auto corrected moved to Novemeber. I dont know why
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Westside, eh? This guy is good, he really breaks down the b-b'ing rigging for you. He points out that some guys are using 20' leaders but he prefers to only use 12'.
Apprearntly 20-25# fluorocarbon line is the key so the fish don't see the leader. ::)
Hmmmm - good advice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HwOfL_xLU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HwOfL_xLU)
You decide if this helps you. That braided knot does look good though.
I would say floro only because it sinks. But Mono works just fine and the added stretch is perfect. Whatever works I guess.
I tie dark green wool and corky 2" behind my hook to not interfere with a hookset. So many ways to floss. Whatever
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Yes many ways to bounce. Biggest thing is just go out an get them while and if you can. Finest eating fish you can get out of this river and you never know, you may not get another crack at them next cycle 4 years from now.
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Yes many ways to bounce. Biggest thing is just go out an get them while and if you can. Finest eating fish you can get out of this river and you never know, you may not get another crack at them next cycle 4 years from now.
I too tie my corkie below thr hook. Got my 2 in half an hour yesterday
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Got my 2 in half an hour yesterday.
Yesterday everybody I talked with limited out. It was a great day for flossing.
Ruined only by the double-dippers. Had to chase off a whole group off of Croft Island.
They were four guys who limited out while I was sitting behind them, waiting for a spot to open.
They left with their 8 fish, and then came back an hour later with the intention to fish again.
Not cool. Not cool at all.
They did get a piece of my and other people's mind and left. I took their license plates and will be watching.
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Awesome work milo, enforcement knows this happens all time time but unless they are out their documenting it it’s hard to charge. With the DFO office in mission getting shut down and officers retiring and positions no being back filled they is hardly any left.
It’s really up to the public to stop this and shame the f out of these people.
Sockeye is a shared resource by all Canadians. They are stealing from us when people do cupcakes like this. We all loose as a society.
So I thank you
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Yesterday everybody I talked with limited out. It was a great day for flossing.
Ruined only by the double-dippers. Had to chase off a whole group off of Croft Island.
They were four guys who limited out while I was sitting behind them, waiting for a spot to open.
They left with their 8 fish, and then came back an hour later with the intention to fish again.
Not cool. Not cool at all.
They did get a piece of my and other people's mind and left. I took their license plates and will be watching.
...what pikers! Don't they know the proper way to double dip is to go home and bring back the wife, kids and the grandparents?
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Can anyone confirm that there is a commercial opening Wednesday?
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Lost three in the AM. Then nothing for 3 hours. We moved, got a prime spot at the tail end of a busy bar and caught limit for two guys in 5 min
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Can anyone confirm that there is a commercial opening Wednesday?
Should be on their notices, did you check?
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Opening will be confirmed tomorrow.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=211924&ID=all
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Opening will be confirmed tomorrow.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=211924&ID=all
Looks like a shorter proposed opening than last time, yes? Wasn't it 24 hours last time? This is only 16 hours.
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Popped my cherry! Fished for sockeye and the Peg Leg both for the very first time today. Trial by fire, I guess. Amazed at how many people are there on a weekday. 11-3, managed to land one, hooked a few more. Two guys (friends, I guess) next to me argued over which colour wool to use. One insisted on green because it infuriates to fish. The other guy also insisted on green because they can't see it. lol, probably the latter.
Question: An older couple was fishing below me. Well, the man was, landing four fish between them while the wife never left her chair. I presume she has a licence but she has to bring it to shore, no? nobody said anything.
Another guy snagged my line a few times, when I unhooked him, I noticed he didn't pinch the barb. I told him but he just giggled. wtf?
Is all this typical for the fishery? I mean, it was fun and most people were cordial but it's a difficult value proposition coming from downtown to combat for two fish, maybe. I guess you really have to get closer to Hope for the best action?
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Quick question Re: limits.
If say 3 people are on a guided trip. The limit for the guests would be 6 sockeye. Can the guide also catch his two during the same trip for a total of 8 in the boat, legally?
Not for me, just looking at some guide pics on social media...
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Yes the guide can always fish for his limit, some are even nice and gift them to your wife when she picks you up.
Others will be stocking their own freezer or catching for sturgeon bait.
Technically the guild could also gift you his two at the end of the trip as well and your could bring home your possession limit of 4.
Not sure people would find that ethical but in this harvest fishery anything seems to go.
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The fish has to be landed by person legal to fish (either licensed or under 16). Just 'being there' is not enough. If fish are gifted to someone who isn't legally able to fish or has retianed their bag or retention limit, it has to be documented.
If someone is fishing with illegal tackle - call RAPP.
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Popped my cherry! Fished for sockeye and the Peg Leg both for the very first time today. Trial by fire, I guess. Amazed at how many people are there on a weekday. 11-3, managed to land one, hooked a few more. Two guys (friends, I guess) next to me argued over which colour wool to use. One insisted on green because it infuriates to fish. The other guy also insisted on green because they can't see it. lol, probably the latter.
Question: An older couple was fishing below me. Well, the man was, landing four fish between them while the wife never left her chair. I presume she has a licence but she has to bring it to shore, no? nobody said anything.
Another guy snagged my line a few times, when I unhooked him, I noticed he didn't pinch the barb. I told him but he just giggled. wtf?
Is all this typical for the fishery? I mean, it was fun and most people were cordial but it's a difficult value proposition coming from downtown to combat for two fish, maybe. I guess you really have to get closer to Hope for the best action?
I was there for a while Sunday..later in the day. No fish landed for me .... I did have one on, but a dude downstream from me decided to ignore my calls of "fish on...fish on" and cast over my line while I was playing the fish ..... the inevitable tangle happened and there went the fish... :o
RE: the barbed hook. If I see someone fishing barbed I will tell them that it is illegal and should be pinched....some claim not to know....maybe some are truly clueless..who knows.. IMO most are not clueless and know damn well... So I also tell them if they keep fishing with a barbed hook I will report them.
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or catching for sturgeon bait.
Well, that would be illegal
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forgot to quote - double post.
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Well, that would be illegal
The use of fin fish (dead or alive) or parts of fin fish other than roe is prohibited throughout the province, with the following exception:
You may use the head of fin fish or the headless body of fin fish as bait, only:
(a) when sport fishing for sturgeon in Region 2 only on the Fraser River, Lower Pitt River (CPR bridge upstream to Pitt Lake), Lower Harrison River (Fraser River upstream to Harrison Lake), or
(b) when set lining in lakes of Region 6 or in lakes of Zone A of Region 7.
Page 9 provincial regs.
We always worried about picking up a floater sockeye for bait during no opening for sockeye.
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The use of fin fish (dead or alive) or parts of fin fish other than roe is prohibited throughout the province, with the following exception:
You may use the head of fin fish or the headless body of fin fish as bait, only:
(a) when sport fishing for sturgeon in Region 2 only on the Fraser River, Lower Pitt River (CPR bridge upstream to Pitt Lake), Lower Harrison River (Fraser River upstream to Harrison Lake), or
(b) when set lining in lakes of Region 6 or in lakes of Zone A of Region 7.
Page 9 provincial regs.
We always worried about picking up a floater sockeye for bait during no opening for sockeye.
True, you can use the bits. I just had a mental picture of using the whole sock for bait, but if they were taking off the fillets and then using the head and backbone, then yes, totally legit.
I'll blame it on wildmanyeah using "or" not "and" :)
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Sturgeon guides have been using the whole
Sockeye. The regs allow And people have been cutting strips of the whole
Sockeye including the fillets.
All the regs say you can’t use the whole
Fish with the head on.
Sockeye for bait was hard to come buy before any openings but they were in the river and it was hot bait. Lots of rumors of some sturgeon guides buying illegal fish for bait.
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Question: An older couple was fishing below me. Well, the man was, landing four fish between them while the wife never left her chair. I presume she has a licence but she has to bring it to shore, no? nobody said anything.
Technically, and assuming she has the proper license and salmon tag, she should at least take the rod from her husband and land the fish herself. However, many " fishing wives" would rather let the husbands do all the deed. If I had been there, I would have kept quiet for as long as the couple didn't exceed the 2 fish per person limit.
There are simply too many violations to police everybody and everything. The older couple would get the benefit of the doubt.
As for the guy with the barbed hook tangled in my line, I'd take out my pliers which are always on me, pinched the barb, and cheekily told the guy that he "forgot" to pinch the barb and that I "fixed" it for him so he doesn't get caught if a CO shows up. I've done it countless times. Never got an argument from anyone. Usually I get a sheepish "thank you".
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True, you can use the bits. I just had a mental picture of using the whole sock for bait, but if they were taking off the fillets and then using the head and backbone, then yes, totally legit.
I'll blame it on wildmanyeah using "or" not "and" :)
FYI, those fish are the property of the licencee and they can do whatever they want. Dog food, fertilizer, smoker, sandwiches or crab bait are all “legit” uses.
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FYI, those fish are the property of the licencee and they can do whatever they want. Dog food, fertilizer, smoker, sandwiches or crab bait are all “legit” uses.
Yes, you and Wildman are correct and I am not. Normally I check these things out before making pronouncements, and I should have this time.
In the Fisheries Act and the British Columbia Sport Fishing Regulations, there is no prohibition against using a salmon for something other than human consumption.
In the Freshwater Synopsis, it does prohibit wasting fish but that's in terms of releasing fish. I had in mind the "wasting" regulation as being applicable here, but it's not.
I stand corrected, gents.
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In the Fisheries Act and the British Columbia Sport Fishing Regulations, there is no prohibition against using a salmon for something other than human consumption.
This came up a couple years ago here and I dont think that is universally true. You apparently cannot use consumable salmon as crab bait. It can be debatable what may or may not count as suitable for consumption, but the consensus seemed to be that using heads, spines, fish trimmings, etc would not cause problems. As would grabbing a floater, though most felt that wouldn't be permitted if there was currently a closure on that species.
From the BC Sport Fishing Guide
When sport fishing, you may not waste any fish that’s suitable for human consumption. You’re not allowed to use any finfish suitable for consumption as bait in trap fishing. However, you are allowed to use fish offal, herring, mackerel, northern anchovy and Pacific sardine.
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This suitability for bait is a really silly debate.
Here's what to do if you want to use your sockeye for crab bait: Let it sit in the sun for a few hours. That will make it unsuitable for human consumption, but the crabs will love it. Problem solved. ::)
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Good catch, DanL. It's mentioned in another spot in the Guide too, in slightly different wording "When sport fishing, you may not waste any fish that’s suitable for human consumption. However, you are allowed to use fish offal, herring, mackerel, northern anchovy and Pacific sardine as bait when fishing with traps." But it wasn't mentioned in the regulations and there is a difference in the enforceability of regulations vs guides and may vs must.
I'm not an expert in provincial/federal, tidal/non-tidal, salmon/other finfish, acts/regulations, or the tea in China, and I think I was still wrong about guides harvesting socks for hook and line sturgeon fishing.
So back to the sockeye fishing thread!
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Commercial opening will be 600am-1000pm Wed and again 600am-1000pm Thursday.
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Area 29: Portions of 29-3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10 11, and 13 to 17: Open to Area E gillnets from
6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Wednesday August 15 and 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Thursday August 16,
2018 (Please refer to DFO Fishery Notices for further details)
Get out and bounce while you can that will put a hole in chilliwack friday/saturday.
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I like the window between the commercial. That's better than the two 4 wlthey had last week. The area looks like Mission bridge and down. Its 24 klm roughly from the Missuin bridge to Island 22 on the river. Those fish should take half a day to get from Mission to There. So I'm guessing the fishing may slow down in the evening on Wendsay and pick up again some time Saturday night. The 8 hour window between commercial openings doesnt mean a whole lot since itll take fish 2 days to get from the mouth to Chilliwack. Whatever stocks replenish the waters will only be scooped up again Thursday morning.
Fish will be caught. For some people it wont be limiting out in a matter of minutes till possibly Saturday night or Sunday morning.
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I like the window between the commercial. That's better than the two 4 wlthey had last week. The area looks like Mission bridge and down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm reading this notice correctly....this opening is much larger overall than last weeks Area E opening. I'm seeing 1 day for all areas...and a second day for certain areas(most).
Last week was a one day opening and done.
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Fish will be caught. For some people it wont be limiting out in a matter of minutes till possibly Saturday night or Sunday morning.
And that's exactly how I'm planning to time my sockeye fishing this weekend. Work until 5:00 PM in Abbotsford, hit the river somewhere between Chilliwack and Hope, catch my Saturday limit (hopefully) before it gets too dark, sleep in the truck for a few hours, and then catch another 2 fish early Sunday morning.
Since my only investment will be 20$ for the extra gas from Abbotsford, that means I can hope for a 5$/fish bounty.
Not bad at all - fingers crossed. ;D
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This will be a great opportunity to purchase some legal fish and fire up the smoker and pressure cooker.
Smoked canned Sockeye is pretty hard to beat.
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Anybody know how much are the sockeyes selling for at the Steveston dock ?
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I brought home a pair from this morning's fishing trip to the north side west of Hope. Fishing wasn't hot but was steady. River seems quite high for this time of year.
This was my first fishing trip since the beginning of May. In early June I was had a cycling accident and broke my clavicle, cracked 3 ribs, had whiplash plus soft tissue damage in my left shoulder. I must be all but recovered!
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Anybody know how much are the sockeyes selling for at the Steveston dock ?
8$/pound, according to CBC.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sockeye-salmon-fishing-1.4780157
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The fish has to be landed by person legal to fish (either licensed or under 16). Just 'being there' is not enough. If fish are gifted to someone who isn't legally able to fish or has retianed their bag or retention limit, it has to be documented.
If someone is fishing with illegal tackle - call RAPP.
illegal tackle? You mean a barbed hook? Do you think calling RAPP will get a officer to come out and make a arrest? Lol
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commencial fishers at the fisherman wharf in maple ridge was selling sockeye for 25 bucks a fish during the last open.
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must be $8/lb for dressed fish.Filets in the store were going for $15/lb.
illegal tackle? You mean a barbed hook? Do you think calling RAPP will get a officer to come out and make a arrest? Lol
Yes... No.
Where you the guy giggling?
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commencial fishers at the fisherman wharf in maple ridge was selling sockeye for 25 bucks a fish during the last open.
The guy at the top of the wharf sells them for $25 and is allways more expensive but i bet if you talk directly to a fisherman you can maybe find a deal.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm reading this notice correctly....this opening is much larger overall than last weeks Area E opening. I'm seeing 1 day for all areas...and a second day for certain areas(most).
Last week was a one day opening and done.
I thought last week was a 24 hour opening
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The guy at the top of the wharf sells them for $25 and is allways more expensive but i bet if you talk directly to a fisherman you can maybe find a deal.
Yeah last cycle i got some direct for 15 at the start of the season and 10 by the end.
a little bit of a PITA to time it right
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I thought last week was a 24 hour opening
now it's 2 x 16 hours with an 8 hour break in between.
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This will be a great opportunity to purchase some legal fish and fire up the smoker and pressure cooker.
Smoked canned Sockeye is pretty hard to beat.
The best way to go although I have never bought a fish. Got my license today so hope to get some bar fishing in soon if the river clears. So much activity out there hard to get a spot now that the Leaf Craft is gone.
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Do you figure the commercial opening on Wednesday will make for poor fishing on Thursday? I booked a boat for my dad and I on Thursday and am wondering if it'd be best to reschedule.
(Edit: The opening hadn't been announced when I booked.)
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Do you figure the commercial opening on Wednesday will make for poor fishing on Thursday? I booked a boat for my dad and I on Thursday and am wondering if it'd be best to reschedule.
(Edit: The opening hadn't been announced when I booked.)
If you booked with a guide I wouldn't worry. They'll put you into fish.its their job. I di believe you'll get into fish for Thursday tho.
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Do you figure the commercial opening on Wednesday will make for poor fishing on Thursday? I booked a boat for my dad and I on Thursday and am wondering if it'd be best to reschedule.
(Edit: The opening hadn't been announced when I booked.)
Thursday should be okay, Friday will suck, Saturday evening might be okay
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Thursday should be okay, Friday will suck, Saturday evening might be okay
There is an opening for 16 hours on Weds and again Thurs. Chilliwack should start to see return to typical by Sun., or later Sat.
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This week has been dynamite. Limits fast ! This morning I hooked 8 before I got my back to back. My buddy almost the same. Reading the water is key. It's so obvious where the travel lanes are. They're surfacing like crazy around Calamity point.i just wish other boaters would get the drift and anchor out some more. We were hammering them and left within an hour. As we were leaving the guy down river from me got the drift and anchored out 10 feet. Why are people so stubborn ? So set in their ways I guess. Change it up !
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Anybody know how much are the sockeyes selling for at the Steveston dock ?
I bought one last Thursday for 30 bucks. It was about 6 pounds cleaned head on. Some boats were asking 7 bucks a pound uncleaned. You have to shop around. The prices should be lower after this weeks opening and if they get another one, lower still.
Doubt it will get to 2010 prices where I got them for 10 bucks a piece off the docks. Did a lot of smoking that year!
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This morning was crazy. Got my limit in 3 casts. Everyone hooking up
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This morning was crazy. Got my limit in 3 casts. Everyone hooking up
Those are fish which were already in the system before the commie netting started.
Tomorrow and most of Saturday will be ghost city. :'(
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There could be a bit of a lull if the main part of the summer run has now passed Mission while the Adams River run builds and enters. Keep watch on the in river test fisheries and the Mission hydro-acoustic count.
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I bought one last Thursday for 30 bucks. It was about 6 pounds cleaned head on. Some boats were asking 7 bucks a pound uncleaned. You have to shop around. The prices should be lower after this weeks opening and if they get another one, lower still.
Doubt it will get to 2010 prices where I got them for 10 bucks a piece off the docks. Did a lot of smoking that year!
That's insane. By those numbers my initial investment of BB gear and boat gas has already paid two fold. If I limit 4 more days a week till the end of the season itll 4x pay itself. $30 a fish is retarded. They're selling roadside in Hope for $20 gutted.
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OK. Motor dropped a cylinder (I think) last night out in the mouth. Ended fishing right away. Limped back to Steveston.
Wheres the shore fishing going on?
I'm in Richmond but, don't necessarily want to go to Chilliwack.
Also, anyone know where I can get this motor looked at?
1989 Mariner 90HP 3cyl.
Thanks
oh yeah. They're selling down here for $3.40/lb
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Limped back to Steveston...
Check your plugs!!
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Limited out this morning, almost everyone was into fish. A few chromers with sea lice were caught!
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17.5lb spring caught on the Fraser!
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I hooked into a bruiser this morning. My shouts of "Spring on" went unnoticed and my line was cast over multiple times. We even anchored up and lost our spot to some prick in a 14 foot green Legand. Thanks buddy. Real classy. Maybe I should buy a buoy and leave a few scattered at some of my favorite spots and bounce around all day and be That Guy.
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I hooked into a bruiser this morning. My shouts of "Spring on" went unnoticed and my line was cast over multiple times. We even anchored up and lost our spot to some prick in a 14 foot green Legand. Thanks buddy. Real classy. Maybe I should buy a buoy and leave a few scattered at some of my favorite spots and bounce around all day and be That Guy.
According to all the old-timers I have ridden with regarding standard boating practice on the Fraser, you SHOULD drop a buoy every time you lift anchor to chase down a spring. If you don't do that, it means you have left for good. How the heck is one supposed to know the spot is taken if no boat and no buoy are there to mark it?
Sorry, but you should take full responsibility for this and not try to blame it on the guy who occupied the real estate after you left.
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I hooked into a bruiser this morning. My shouts of "Spring on" went unnoticed and my line was cast over multiple times. We even anchored up and lost our spot to some prick in a 14 foot green Legand. Thanks buddy. Real classy. Maybe I should buy a buoy and leave a few scattered at some of my favorite spots and bounce around all day and be That Guy.
This what happens when you have so many newbies out on this activity, not the best experiences, that is why a few of us old timers stay away or just sit in a lawn chair and watch "The Gong Show" I think a popular TV was called.
Saying that while cleaning up some garbage on a couple of bars today every one was behaving and they were catching a number of fish.
A First Nations lady asked me what her limit was. I said she had to keep to the sport regulation, Others said as many as she wanted. Anyone know the correct answer? Even the Master was not sure. :-\
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According to all the old-timers I have ridden with regarding standard boating practice on the Fraser, you SHOULD drop a buoy every time you lift anchor to chase down a spring. If you don't do that, it means you have left for good. How the heck is one supposed to know the spot is taken if no boat and no buoy are there to mark it?
Sorry, but you should take full responsibility for this and not try to blame it on the guy who occupied the real estate after you left.
So I guess the selfish arse that leaves his Bouy in a good Sturgeon hole at Moutain bar all day logs has rights to that hole ? Stupid logic. Bouy marked locations have a life span ( in my opinion ). I've seen a Bouy sitting in the same hole for almost days on end. For half a day ? Ok. It's yours. But they do have a lifespan. Next time I want that parking spot in front of the bank I'll just make sure to leave a cone in it. That way when I go back a day later itll be saved for me.
Get a life
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A First Nations lady asked me what her limit was. I said she had to keep to the sport regulation, Others said as many as she wanted. Anyone know the correct answer? Even the Master was not sure. :-\
AFAIK unless The band and DFO have authorized FN fishing with rod line and hook the sport regulations apply. They are not required to have a license (see Pg 6 of the synopsis).
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A First Nations lady asked me what her limit was. I said she had to keep to the sport regulation, Others said as many as she wanted. Anyone know the correct answer? Even the Master was not sure. :-\
You're right Chris. She would have to keep to the regulations when participating in the sport fishery. It's only during a ceremonial or food harvest that she can retain more than the two allowable. Even to which there is a regulated quota base for each nation and their agreement with the Federal Government and size of salmon return.
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I hooked into a bruiser this morning. My shouts of "Spring on" went unnoticed and my line was cast over multiple times. We even anchored up and lost our spot to some prick in a 14 foot green Legand. Thanks buddy. Real classy. Maybe I should buy a buoy and leave a few scattered at some of my favorite spots and bounce around all day and be That Guy.
It depends on the what the dude in the 14 foot green Legend was aware of...
If he wasn't aware you left the spot to fight the spring, and he jumped into what he thought was open spot = not a d!ck move
If he was aware you left the spot to fight the spring and jumped into the spot thinking you might not come back, and if you did come back he would give the spot back to you = not a d!ck move.
If he was aware you left the spot to fight the spring and jumped into your spot with no intention of giving it up if you came back = d!ck move.
And Milo has a good point, dropping a buoy makes things a whole lot cleaner.
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He was above me. I was on the tail end of a bar. I came back and he wouldn't move.
I dont have an issue with someone marking a spot when they leave. My issue is with the people that drop one and dont fish there. I've seen guides drive up the river, drop a bouy and leave for hours. I understand if you're fishingting a fish, mark it and go only to come back. I feel that are being abused. That's all
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She has to keep to the sport regulation, unless her band has issued her a communial licence. Then it would have what her quota is for fsc and her bands approved method of harvest. DFO used to be encharge of issuing them. They would Go to the band office and write them all up. However now DFO issues the band an fsc quota and its up to each individual band to write the terms and keep tract and report their catch internally.
It is also my understanding that the majority of the communal licences typically get issued to the men.
That being said if she did go out and fish and keep more then her limit and somehow ran into DFO. It would be pretty rare for her band to thow her under the bus, they would probably say she was approved to fish for Fsc and deal with it internally.
Haha that’s what I herd anyways...
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what Ralph said is correct
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So I guess the selfish arse that leaves his Bouy in a good Sturgeon hole at Moutain bar all day logs has rights to that hole ? Stupid logic. Bouy marked locations have a life span ( in my opinion ). I've seen a Bouy sitting in the same hole for almost days on end. For half a day ? Ok. It's yours. But they do have a lifespan. Next time I want that parking spot in front of the bank I'll just make sure to leave a cone in it. That way when I go back a day later itll be saved for me.
Get a life
I'm with Milo on this one. I always use a bouy when fishing the Fraser during Sockeye season. Keeps your spot when u have to drop anchor to go chase down a spring.
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what Ralph said is correct
since DFO sets the sport limits for salmon, it gets more complicated. FWIW I have talked to a few FNs who don't believe the sport regs apply to them. I don't argue with them I just tell them maybe, I don't really know.
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He was above me. I was on the tail end of a bar. I came back and he wouldn't move.
I dont have an issue with someone marking a spot when they leave. My issue is with the people that drop one and dont fish there. I've seen guides drive up the river, drop a bouy and leave for hours. I understand if you're fishingting a fish, mark it and go only to come back. I feel that are being abused. That's all
I was commenting on the particular incident. No buoy = spot is up for grabs. People can't read your mind and without a buoy in place they don't know whether you are coming back or not. A dropped buoy on your end clears up any confusion.
As for those who drop buoys to claim a spot and don't fish it for hours or days...not cool, but there is an easy peasy solution: Tie your boat to their buoy and fish until they come back. If they don't show up until you finish your outing, great! If they do, just tell them you were safe-guarding their spot because some assholes wanted to steal their buoy! ;D
Carpe Diem.
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I allways mark a big X on the floor of my boat so nobody takes my spot.
Those that leave buoys unattended are not only dicks but they are dangerous dicks.
I would never anchor without a buoy attached to my anchor rope.
Not just to make things easier but ive seen too many logs comming down the river and no way you could pull anchor fast enough to get out of the way.
Was in a boat one time where we both werent looking upstream enough and a tree took us out and knocked us off anchor.
Luckily it wasnt a huge tree so we got the rope untangled and diverted the tree around us.
That river is more powerfull than we think.
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I allways mark a big X on the floor of my boat so nobody takes my spot.
Those that leave buoys unattended are not only dicks but they are dangerous dicks.
I would never anchor without a buoy attached to my anchor rope.
Not just to make things easier but ive seen too many logs comming down the river and no way you could pull anchor fast enough to get out of the way.
Was in a boat one time where we both werent looking upstream enough and a tree took us out and knocked us off anchor.
Luckily it wasnt a huge tree so we got the rope untangled and diverted the tree around us.
That river is more powerfull than we think.
Good post the voice of experience what many lack these days.
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Fyi. Anyone looking for betties. Cabelas just got a huge shipment.
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Good post the voice of experience what many lack these days.
x2
If there's anyone who knows his Fraser chit, that would be firstlight.
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One a piece for Dad and I this morning. Both had sea lice, good to see a few dodged nets ;D
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Quite a few going up the north arm last night.
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Has anyone been up to Lillooet and fished the area of the fraser open for socks up there yet? Opened a few days ago and am wondering if anyone is having any luck yet.
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Has anyone been up to Lillooet and fished the area of the fraser open for socks up there yet? Opened a few days ago and am wondering if anyone is having any luck yet.
Super easy, limited in 10 mins yesterday checked out a bar with more people and they were also catching pretty good.
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Gill nets open for 8 hours, from 10:00 hours to 18:00 hours August 21, 2018 in
Subareas 29-11 to 29-17 and portions of Subareas 29-3, 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, 29-9
and 29-10 known as the Fraser River Mouth. An extension to this opening is
possible; this will be confirmed on Tuesday, August 21 following the FRP
meeting and an announcement will be made on the grounds during the fishery.
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Harvested over 2.5 million Fraser sockeye so far.
https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11299/august-17-2018-2.pdf
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Gill nets open for 8 hours, from 10:00 hours to 18:00 hours August 21, 2018 in
Subareas 29-11 to 29-17 and portions of Subareas 29-3, 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, 29-9
and 29-10 known as the Fraser River Mouth. An extension to this opening is
possible; this will be confirmed on Tuesday, August 21 following the FRP
meeting and an announcement will be made on the grounds during the fishery.
So Chilliwack area bars will be dead slow by August 23/24 and Hope area bars by August 24/25. Fishery folks seem to want to slow down you weekend sockeye warriors. Lol.
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So Chilliwack area bars will be dead slow by August 23/24 and Hope area bars by August 24/25. Fishery folks seem to want to slow down you weekend sockeye warriors. Lol.
I see this as the opposite - only an 8 hour opening - should have much less of an impact on sport fisheries. Next weekend should be fine.
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I see this as the opposite - only an 8 hour opening - should have much less of an impact on sport fisheries. Next weekend should be fine.
They already warned of a possible extension, and the way things are going this season....its basically a sure thing....question is how long the extension will be.
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At Calmity point today. I got one. Saw two landed. From 6am to 11sm. Slow today.
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Prices are coming down. $15 bucks per fish on Craigslist. I was at Costco the other day and they were selling sockeye fillet for $15 per lb.
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At Calmity point today. I got one. Saw two landed. From 6am to 11sm. Slow today.
Saw quite a few at Gill laying in their rock pools when i was cleaning up garbage which was not too bad thankfully as other are doing the same. We may
put a cleanup together when the activity stops, we have done it before but very few take part. It should be over by September 3 and unless an extension is given. One would think everyone should have enough fish by then and sick of standing a few feet apart hour after hour. :-X
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Saw quite a few at Gill laying in their rock pools when i was cleaning up garbage which was not too bad thankfully as other are doing the same. We may
put a cleanup together when the activity stops, we have done it before but very few take part. It should be over by September 3 and unless an extension is given. One would think everyone should have enough fish by then and sick of standing a few feet apart hour after hour. :-X
I fish from my boat so I have no experience with these crowds people talk about. Sounds like a mess. I have seen sport drink bottles, coffee cups and full on garbage cans x2 floating down the river. I snagged into a bouncing setup today and pulled up some heavy braid line tried to a 6o hook with a barb. Other than that it's been very nice to cast from a boat. Everyone is nice and respectful for the most part. The only time my buttons get pushed on a daily basis is when a boat decides to unload its crew on a bar and wade out to their tits in the river. Then my line is cast over. It's been the guides doing this for the most part.
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River has seemed to slow down considerably, at least where I've been. Test nets have also taken a downturn........ are they holding off the mouth or have the nets scooped everything out? In river commercial opening closed Thursday night, surely the river should have refilled since then. Where's the big surge of late runs?
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River has seemed to slow down considerably, at least where I've been. Test nets have also taken a downturn........ are they holding off the mouth or have the nets scooped everything out? In river commercial opening closed Thursday night, surely the river should have refilled since then. Where's the big surge of late runs?
Is that just today you are seeing this? Saturday was slow for us as expected (although we could have limited three times if we could have kept fish hooked), and yesterday was easy limits in less than 2 hours. This is fishing in Chilliwack. If you are far upriver, maybe you are still seeing a gap from the commercial openings? Were you above the bulk of the FN netting on Saturday? They also seemed to pretty effectively sweeping the river.
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Is that just today you are seeing this? Saturday was slow for us as expected (although we could have limited three times if we could have kept fish hooked), and yesterday was easy limits in less than 2 hours. This is fishing in Chilliwack. If you are far upriver, maybe you are still seeing a gap from the commercial openings? Were you above the bulk of the FN netting on Saturday? They also seemed to pretty effectively sweeping the river.
I noticed it's gotten progressively worse since Friday, just west of Hope area, today being the worse...... What would be the travel time to gauge the voids left by the openings, 3 days for Hope, 2 for Chilliwack?
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I noticed it's gotten progressively worse since Friday, just west of Hope area, today being the worse...... What would be the travel time to gauge the voids left by the openings, 3 days for Hope, 2 for Chilliwack?
I suspect at least part of the void you saw today was from the FN opening on Saturday. We saw as many as a dozen gillnet boats in front of us at various times on Saturday - pulling up as many as 30 or more fish per set. I don't know how many kms this was happening at once, but I would expect it to take a good bite out of the run further upstream.
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I suspect at least part of the void you saw today was from the FN opening on Saturday. We saw as many as a dozen gillnet boats in front of us at various times on Saturday - pulling up as many as 30 or more fish per set. I don't know how many kms this was happening at once, but I would expect it to take a good bite out of the run further upstream.
I imagine that's the case, openings Wed/Thurs/Sat probably put a pretty big gap in the river that seemed more pronounced in the upper reaches. Hopefully Sunday/Monday loads back up and the commercial opening stays only 8 hours tomorrow.
Any idea when the majority of the late run usually hits the marine approach areas? (12/13 and 20) Just curious if we're still seeing summer runs primarily coming in.
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I mentioned above there may be a lull before the late (Adams) run comes in. Past years when that component is not strong usually sees results tail off around the 3rd week of August. That is because the summer run has mostly passed upstream
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I was very slow at scale today, nothing for me and very few limits, also seabird parking area was not available because of the fire , they parked quite a walk away.
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216 sockeye in the Albion test net yesterday - the biggest daily total yet this year. And finally a decent day for chinook numbers too. Doesn't look like a lull between runs yet.
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fishing was very good this morning where I was near Hope - many limits taken.
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Is there any opening for commercial in the river this week?
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Still no announcement about the gillnet opening in the river mouth. Per the last announcement, the current opening closes in 45 minutes but may be extended further. No announcement about other gillnet openings in the mouth this week either - could be a good sign for us for the weekend. Fingers crossed . . .
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Saturday was very slow, we were above the fn nets so not much was getting through. Last night was on fire at snaggy. That bar really lives up to it's name ::)
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I take the boat out 4 days a week from island 22 and fish Grassy on up to Calamity point. It was slow Monday and today. We battled for 6 hours and only hooked two fish with one taken home. I saw many people give up. It was brutal out there.not worth the $18 in gas and snacks to go out for the day in a boat.
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I take the boat out 4 days a week from island 22 and fish Grassy on up to Calamity point. It was slow Monday and today. We battled for 6 hours and only hooked two fish with one taken home. I saw many people give up. It was brutal out there.not worth the $18 in gas and snacks to go out for the day in a boat.
X 2 river was dead from mtn bar to grassy yesterday ... saw enough in a couple hours to leave early and avoid boat launch madness.
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I thought today would have been awful but sheer luck and the right spot two of us limited in an hour and half this AM.
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X3 pour moi near Hope. Starting to think said spot just isn't a big producer without big numbers in the river.
Any idea how many more openings the commies are going to get for their pogey hours at this point with the returns falling around the p25 mark?
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Any idea how many more openings the commies are going to get for their pogey hours at this point with the returns falling around the p25 mark?
returns are at the p25 mark? From what I have seen they have been p50 or better.
No idea how many more openings. The biggest component, the Adams River run, has yet to arrive in big numbers. I would guess another next week and perhaps after Labour Day, depending on how concern for interior Coho get factored into the decision.
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This was an interesting non-announcement:
Fishery Notice
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Subject: FN0836-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Fraser River Sockeye - Area E - Area 29 - Closed August 21, 2018
The Area E Gill net fishery described in FN0809 closed as scheduled at 18:00
hours August 21, 2018.
The next update on the progress of Fraser River sockeye runs and fishing
opportunities will be available on Thursday, August 23, 2018 following the
Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recorded updates for fisheries notices are available at (604)666-2828 or
1-866-431-3474.
FOR MORE INFORMATION
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River), Delta (604)666-2370
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0836
Sent August 22, 2018 at 1030
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Captain Obvious says, "the end is near." :-\
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This was an interesting non-announcement:
Fishery Notice
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Subject: FN0836-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Fraser River Sockeye - Area E - Area 29 - Closed August 21, 2018
The Area E Gill net fishery described in FN0809 closed as scheduled at 18:00
hours August 21, 2018.
The next update on the progress of Fraser River sockeye runs and fishing
opportunities will be available on Thursday, August 23, 2018 following the
Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recorded updates for fisheries notices are available at (604)666-2828 or
1-866-431-3474.
FOR MORE INFORMATION
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River), Delta (604)666-2370
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0836
Sent August 22, 2018 at 1030
Maybe I missed something here but I see no deviation from what they normally say every Tuesday or Thursday.
I remeber reading in one announcement that there is no change to the predicted number and that the Adam's run is staging now. I know U would love to see a rec extension past Sept 3rd for one week. But, to be honest I'm getting tired of cleaning fish everyday and my wifes patients are wearing thin.
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Maybe I missed something here but I see no deviation from what they normally say every Tuesday or Thursday.
I remeber reading in one announcement that there is no change to the predicted number and that the Adam's run is staging now. I know U would love to see a rec extension past Sept 3rd for one week. But, to be honest I'm getting tired of cleaning fish everyday and my wifes patients are wearing thin.
Try feeding your wifes patients some of the fish you've been catching and they should improve. You don't have to go and kill everyday. ::)
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Try feeding your wifes patients some of the fish you've been catching and they should improve. You don't have to go and kill everyday. ::)
Well I sure do put my time into lots of things around home. I work a Fri, Sat, Sunday shift and I'm home for 4. Parrent, work on the other business and home duties. Yes I get out lots but I never take a day off. I earn it.shell just have to realize how good she has it. I could be working 6 days a week at another place. She lucky ;)
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Well I sure do put my time into lots of things around home. I work a Fri, Sat, Sunday shift and I'm home for 4. Parrent, work on the other business and home duties. Yes I get out lots but I never take a day off. I earn it.shell just have to realize how good she has it. I could be working 6 days a week at another place. She lucky ;)
Sorry - I thought your wife was a health care provider. ;D
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Maybe I missed something here but I see no deviation from what they normally say every Tuesday or Thursday.
I remeber reading in one announcement that there is no change to the predicted number and that the Adam's run is staging now. I know U would love to see a rec extension past Sept 3rd for one week. But, to be honest I'm getting tired of cleaning fish everyday and my wifes patients are wearing thin.
Well , by the sounds of it your storing enough socks to last you till the next cycle ;) . Eat fish , drink and stay thirsty my friends ;D .Realistically , you got about six months to pound all that sockeye down . After that they will taste like farmed crap :o ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Cheers
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This was an interesting non-announcement:
Fishery Notice
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Subject: FN0836-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Fraser River Sockeye - Area E - Area 29 - Closed August 21, 2018
The Area E Gill net fishery described in FN0809 closed as scheduled at 18:00
hours August 21, 2018.
The next update on the progress of Fraser River sockeye runs and fishing
opportunities will be available on Thursday, August 23, 2018 following the
Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recorded updates for fisheries notices are available at (604)666-2828 or
1-866-431-3474.
FOR MORE INFORMATION
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River), Delta (604)666-2370
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0836
Sent August 22, 2018 at 1030
This is just a statement to end any possible extension to the opening on Tuesday. There will be an opening next week.
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I thought today would have been awful but sheer luck and the right spot two of us limited in an hour and half this AM.
That's the way it goes sometimes.... yesterday, a bad day, I was (the first) off the bar with my limit in under a couple of hours with not much else going on all around me, and today, 4 hours nets me 1... very slow this morning.
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Nada this morning, change spots, me and dad both limit out ;D
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They already warned of a possible extension, and the way things are going this season....its basically a sure thing....question is how long the extension will be.
Wow....I don't mind being wrong on this sort of thing....but its rare to see the commercials not get this sort of thing.
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Wow....I don't mind being wrong on this sort of thing....but its rare to see the commercials not get this sort of thing.
I was also surprised to see this was the only opening this week. Of course, they could still announce an opening for Friday that screws up our whole weekend.
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The Fraser River Sport Fishery is pretty small in the scheme of things. As far as sport fishing goes the saltwater is the big event. FNs and commercial pull more weight yet. I don't think the PSC and DFO will worry too much about impacting a long weekends fishing if they think there is a window for a net fishery. If you consider the political aspect, the Liberals know they can't win most of the valley ridings and the Conservatives kow they can't lose.
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FN openings both tomorrow and Friday so basically the river is netted from Tuesday on....
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I would just stay off the water and let them have their economic fishery, Their set nets will clear out all the fish from the bouncing lanes of fish anyways.
ategory(s): ABORIGINAL - Salmon: Economic Opportunities
Subject: FN0839-ABORIGINAL - Salmon - Economic Opportunities - Area 29 - Lower Fraser Area - Opening August 23, 2018
A commercial economic opportunity fishery is authorized for the Aitchelitz,
Chawathil, Cheam, Katzie, Kwantlen, Kwaw-kwaw-apilt, Peters, Seabird Island,
Shxwha:y, Shxw'ow'hamel, Skowkale, Skwah, Soowahlie, Squiala, Sumas, Tzeacten,
Union Bar, and Yale First Nation for sockeye salmon using set and drift gill
nets in the lower Fraser River.
This fishery is open for set nets from 06:00 hours, Thursday, August 23, 2018
to 12:00 hours, Friday, August 24, 2018 and for drift nets from 06:00 hours to
16:00 hours on Thursday, August 23, 2018 in the following area: portions of
Area 29, the mainstem of the Fraser River from the Port Mann Bridge to Sawmill
Creek.
Only individuals designated by the Aitchelitz, Chawathil, Cheam, Katzie,
Kwantlen, Kwaw-kwaw-apilt, Peters, Seabird Island, Shxwha:y, Shxw'ow'hamel,
Skowkale, Skwah, Soowahlie, Squiala, Sumas, Tzeachten, Union Bar, Yale First
Nation are authorized to participate in this fishery. All aspects of the
communal licence will be enforced. Fish harvesters are advised to contact their
band for a copy of the conditions of their fishing licence.
Notes:
The target species in this fishery is Fraser River sockeye salmon. There will
be non-retention of chinook, coho, steelhead and sturgeon. This fishery has
been designed to address stocks of concern. All non-target species will be
released back to the water alive and unharmed.
It is mandatory that all salmon retained under the authority of this licence be
transported to the nearest landing station and made available for inspection.
A monitor shall be present during all landing of catch to record the number and
weight of each species of salmon delivered.
Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC) is monitoring seabird by-catch to
determine potential impact on bird populations under current fishing effort and
bird numbers. Fishers are requested to submit all dead birds entangled in nets
to ECCC for species confirmation and DNA analysis to determine the colony of
origin. Please call your local charter patrol to organize pick-up, drop
carcasses off at a local DFO office, or contact ECCC directly by calling the
Wild Bird Mortality reporting Line 1-866-431-2473 (BIRD). Handle birds with
gloves, double bag dead birds. Label bag with date, time, location, fishery
opening and vessel name (Skipper name isn't needed). Alternatively, please send
photographs of birds with a reference object such as a coin, and the date,
time, location, fishery opening and vessel name to laurie.wilson@canada.ca.
Questions: contact Laurie Wilson (laurie.wilson@canada.ca, 604-862-8817).
Fishers are advised to notify local DFO managers or patrol vessels to report
abandoned, lost, or entangled gear.
The 24 hour toll-free phone-in line for fisheries notices is 1-866-431-3474.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Sheldon Evers, Resource Manager - Fraser Interior Area at (604) 666-8049
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0839
Sent August 22, 2018 at 1616
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The biggest component, the Adams River run, has yet to arrive in big numbers.
Yesterday, my brother said that there are huge numbers of fish jumping in English Bay.
He lives downtown and has been watching every day - said it was the most he's seen by far.
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That FN opening doesn't look too bad - only 10 hours for drift nets on Thursday, the rest are just set nets. All netting done by noon Friday, should be fine for the weekend sporties.
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the FN economic opportunities opening never clean out the river to the extent the full commercial openings do. If you have seen both it's hard not to miss the difference in the # of boats on the water.
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the FN economic opportunities opening never clean out the river to the extent the full commercial openings do. If you have seen both it's hard not to miss the difference in the # of boats on the water.
Nope they don’t but their nets are up river of mission where all the rec fishermen are. Best just to avoid the area and let the economic fishery happen.
Undoubtedly their will be conflicts posted on social media come Thursday and Friday .
How many guys will bring up ankor when a net comes towards their boat. How many First Nations will avoid adrift right though a rec bar.
What are the Fraser river peace keepers recommending??
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Nope they don’t but their nets are up river of mission where all the rec fishermen are. Best just to avoid the area and let the economic fishery happen.
Undoubtedly their will be conflicts posted on social media come Thursday and Friday .
How many guys will bring up ankor when a net comes towards their boat. How many First Nations will avoid adrift right though a rec bar.
What are the Fraser river peace keepers recommending??
It seemed to work pretty well last Saturday from what I saw, except I heard one FN fisher telling another FN boat that a sport boat cut his net in half on his first set! However, from all appearances, the two groups were friendly and keeping to their own space while we were out. The FN boats seemed to actually get the most fish just by drifting down the middle of the river away from where the sport boats could anchor.
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Nope they don’t but their nets are up river of mission where all the rec fishermen are. Best just to avoid the area and let the economic fishery happen.
Undoubtedly their will be conflicts posted on social media come Thursday and Friday .
How many guys will bring up ankor when a net comes towards their boat. How many First Nations will avoid adrift right though a rec bar.
What are the Fraser river peace keepers recommending??
Hmmm... well those anchored are supposed to move when water craft like this are not able to maneuver - same with tugs and barges.
As a bank fisherman I've never seen or experienced a direct conflict though I am sure they happen.
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Openings like this are rare. Just let them have it and stay off the water. Honestly. I know I will. My deep freezer is almost full and I've already canned 6 sockeye and one spring. Plus the best best week is set to come. I'll be resting my arms today and doing a little checkup on the boat, trailer and gear.
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Not looking to start a debate regarding the legality of this notice issued by the Seabird First Nations Band, Since its not from DFO but hopefully fishermen are smart enough to avoid the area.
sports Fishing Closure Notice – August 23, 2018
Fishing is CLOSED on the Banks of the Fraser River from South of Seabird to North of Seabird; Maria Slough to Johnson Slough due to the forest fighting efforts. All cars parked on the side of Hwy 7 and the adjacent roads will be towed and may face hefty fines from DFO.
- It is not safe to have vehicles parked in this area, they are impeding forest fire efforts to attend the scene.
- It is not safe to be on the river or its banks at this time due to water extractions for the fire efforts.
First Nations Fishers will have to fish to the East of the Johnson or to the West of Maria in order to allow the Fire Emergency staff to continue to fight the fires.
This closure will remain in effect until further notice.
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@wildmanyeah - was this notice posted in the area? Is it posted online somewhere? It doesn't make much sense for DFO to be enforcing parking for Fire Fighters - that is clearly not DFO's jurisdiction. I would think that any fishing closure would have to be issued by DFO or the Province - NOT the band. Of course, it's not a good idea to park in an area where they are actively fire fighting...
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Posted on Seabirds facebook page
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It's posted on the Seabird Island Band's Facebook and Twitter accounts.
I agree, some things don't make sense. And interesting that it is directed at both sport and FN fishers
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https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=212617&ID=all
There is some concern about the late summer stick ? Hmm.....
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https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=212617&ID=all
There is some concern about the late summer stick ? Hmm.....
Makes sense if you watch the test net fisheries. I'm sure at the first sign of building strength (if at all), they will open up the armada again.
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Yeah.
Comparing the numbers from 2014 to this run, they are way down. By Aug 17th the runs were tripple digits straight thru to second week of September. Now ? Not at all.
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Adams looks like they may be no shows and that would be devastating they were expecting about 7 million late run mostly made up of adams.
Early and Summers look to be about what they predicted
The catches in area 20 and 12 should be larger and they should be composed mostly of late run adams at this point. Well that's at least what happened in 2010 and 2014
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I'm withholding judgment - this year far more of the fish are diverting around the outside of the island - a longer route to swim. Give them time to show up.
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A big black blob of sockeye still on the way so heard. Everything always late. Late is the new normal. Lots of fish out of the mouth. Been getting limits every trip.
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So the current diversion rate is set at roughly 75/25 with the majority taking WCVi. Presuming test nets hold steady in areas 12/13, we should see a massive surge in late run fish in the area 20 nets sometime soon. Assuming the worst, and the numbers never materialize, then what? The TAC gets shredded and all fisheries close immediately?
Has the Adams run ever no showed before? Why would they choose WCVI?
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my guess is that the WCVI diversion has something to do with water temps. i seem to recall something about "the Blob" of warm water moving recently, which may have altered their migration pattern or the food source. Thoughts?
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The Adams run got very badly over fished 4 years ago. I wouldn’t doubt that they no show.
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I was out near hope yesterday, and my friend and I were catching fish we suspected to be Adams fish. I've found they tend to be a little bigger, and fight a little more. This is totally unscientific, but that was out suspicion.
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I was out near hope yesterday, and my friend and I were catching fish we suspected to be Adams fish. I've found they tend to be a little bigger, and fight a little more. This is totally unscientific, but that was out suspicion.
They are in there no doubt. But are they in the millions. Who knows that this point.
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is the old orchard boat launch open... or is it still closed ?
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DFO must think they're late now. With the 4 openings ( 3 salt and 1 FN ) to intercept Fraser stocks this weekend.a few days ago they put a hold on one. Now it's a go.
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Honestly, I don’t think DFO/PSC has a clue at this point. You can bet they are hoping they are late/diverting around WCVI and suddenly flood the area 20 test nets. They’ve allowed the decimation of most salmon runs on the Fraser, what’s another. Glass half full is the numbers no longer allow a sport opening/commercial opening and the stocks are allowed to rebuild and the cancer that is the lining fishery every 4 years finally goes the way of Blockbuster Video.
Cottonwood/Whonnock was loaded yesterday so that’s encouraging for the weekend.
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dfo does smolt sampling in the lower river so they have an idea what went out in spring 2016 and that is what the return models are built on. In 2014 the adult return was strong in the first half of Sept and as I remember the commercial and FN net fisheries were shut to preserve interior Fraser coho.
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The two bars we fished this morning were VERY slow
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any other reports on the bars today? Saturday was pretty hot. when was the last FN / Commercial opening in the river?
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Last commercial opening was Aug 21. FN opening on the lower fraser was yesterday. Next FN opening for Monday and following meeting late Monday expect a commercial opening announcement.
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Last commercial opening was Aug 21. FN opening on the lower fraser was yesterday. Next FN opening for Monday and following meeting late Monday expect a commercial opening announcement.
Looks like it has been a consistent 24/7 opening for FN for the past weeks.....
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Looks like it has been a consistent 24/7 opening for FN for the past weeks.....
I'm also confused about FN openings listed in the DFO notices. I see the same areas fished with nets all the time. I'm not against it but I am wondering where these notices are. I saw them out from Harrison to island 22 yesterday. Where is the notice ? I'd like to fish down stream or avoid one if I can.
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Sorry I was referring more to the fishing that was happening in the tidal portion of the Fraser mostly.
The FN openings have food fisheries, and their own commercial openings. The ones you see on DFOs Fishery Notices page are usually the economic FN notices. Other openings upper river are at
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html
They will usually have FN fisheries of any type on the lower Fraser from Friday to Monday and have Regular commercial openings From Tuesday - Thursdays. They try to stagger the openings and have the opening be on a slack tide or close to it on the lower Fraser.
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Yep, netting all morning in front of us, and the same yesterday too. And it was very slow, although we each had enough on to limit, we only managed to land 1 each. Very chrome and fresh today - seems the fish have gotten fresher since Friday.
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It is good that people are enjoying the fishery for what is a chance to catch one of the best eating salmon out there. However, like everything else there are yahoos out there who have to give sports fisherman a bad name. On the Hope Bulletin board on Facebook it was posted that some idiots were fishing yesterday in a boat and not only yelling insults to the natives on shore, but exposing themselves and urinating in front of them too. It is yahoos like this who give reasons to the decision makers to not open the sports fishery. And can you blame them, this is an incident that could have gotten very, very ugly. Hopefully the asshats get caught from the videos and pictures that were taken by people on shore.
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So far, it looks like mainly drift nets are being allowed for 10-12 hours per day, Mon - Weds this week, from Sumas River (canal) upstream to Laidlaw.
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Sorry I was referring more to the fishing that was happening in the tidal portion of the Fraser mostly.
The FN openings have food fisheries, and their own commercial openings. The ones you see on DFOs Fishery Notices page are usually the economic FN notices. Other openings upper river are at
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html
They will usually have FN fisheries of any type on the lower Fraser from Friday to Monday and have Regular commercial openings From Tuesday - Thursdays. They try to stagger the openings and have the opening be on a slack tide or close to it on the lower Fraser.
There is a link to a First Nations sockeye total cumulative catch report on the page link, above. There is no catch recorded after August 5th between the Port Mann Bridge upstream to Sawmill Creek. I presume that this data is not up to date. Anyone have any info on this data?
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This data is more up to date as of friday the 24th, 4 million harvested so far by all groups
https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11305/august-24-2018-2.pdf
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It is good that people are enjoying the fishery for what is a chance to catch one of the best eating salmon out there. However, like everything else there are yahoos out there who have to give sports fisherman a bad name. On the Hope Bulletin board on Facebook it was posted that some idiots were fishing yesterday in a boat and not only yelling insults to the natives on shore, but exposing themselves and urinating in front of them too. It is yahoos like this who give reasons to the decision makers to not open the sports fishery. And can you blame them, this is an incident that could have gotten very, very ugly. Hopefully the asshats get caught from the videos and pictures that were taken by people on shore.
Yeah It got really bad in the late 90's. Was hoping people would just stay off the water for the FN fishery
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FWIW, today I saw an angler lose a fish to a FN drift net, but after they finished their set the FN boat made a point of coming back to where the angler broke off to try to return the fish to them. Unfortunately, they had already pulled anchor and left. Still, I am not seeing any overt hostility between the groups, but of course anglers complaining about how the drift netting is ruining the fishing, etc.
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Just a note on that incident the picture shows they were sturgeon fishing not sockeye fishing for what its worth
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Just a note on that incident the picture shows they were sturgeon fishing not sockeye fishing for what its worth
Which incident? The one I was describing was sockeye fishing.
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Which incident? The one I was describing was sockeye fishing.
From Facebook, Their is also a picture of a guy peeing off the back of his boat.
Stacy McNeil
August 25 at 11:53 PM ·
Every year we deal with this. Disrespect for our indigenous rights and traditions, our sacred fishing grounds and our people.
Today, although not new to us, we had sports fisherman decide to anchor their boat in front of our fish camp. Two indigenous women and three children were at the river cutting and cleaning our fish, enjoying the teachings we were passing on and the gathering of our family’s food. The sports-fishermen began loud, obnoxious conversations loaded with disgraceful language. After some time, one of the mothers asked them to please stop using foul language in front of our children.
Their response was to tell us to shut up and begin urinating in front of us, asking us to suck their cocks. The first offender left his penis out for a long period of time, repeating his earlier request. The mother again asked for them to stop as children were present but they did not. They had no fear in front of us women and children. Eventually, their comments and lewdness got worse. According to them, we are dumb Indians who are stealing all of the fish, getting free fish and free gas. More and more words slandering our people and culture occurred.
While I was on the phone with rcmp, as the abuse could be heard all down the river, three boats full of indigenous warriors came and circled the offenders, suggesting that they move along. The offenders continued to insult these men, calling them down as people who have stolen fish for many years, etc. Eventually, they pulled anchor and drifted away - not before one of them rolled his pants and underwear down to provide everyone with a full frontal view of his privates.
All of these five “men” were drinking.
Rcmp reported to be on their way but did not come, calling first to say they would be sending instead an email address via text for us to send the photos we had taken. We have many and share one with you now.
Enough is enough. Our fishing grounds are sacred. Our ancient sturgeon use them to feed also and are being mercilessly tormented day in and day out. Sports fisherman should not fish near our traditional sites. Stop the disrespect. ✊🏼
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I'm so sorry to hear of this. :-[
Find solace in the fact that those who did it are what we call "white trash", and they are a disgrace to humanity.
If you have video of this offense, please send it to me. I will forward it to the proper authorities and media.
Like you said, enough is enough. People like those offenders don't deserve to go unpunished. Such behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE.
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I'm so sorry to hear of this. :-[
Find solace in the fact that those who did it are what we call "white trash", and they are a disgrace to humanity.
If you have video of this offense, please send it to me. I will forward it to the proper authorities and media.
Like you said, enough is enough. People like those offenders don't deserve to go unpunished. Such behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE.
Looks like its going Viral now, Last time i checked it had over 1000 shares, I am sure all the proper authority and media are already involved.
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Yeah It got really bad in the late 90's. Was hoping people would just stay off the water for the FN fishery
Uuuum what? Theirs net openings literally every weekend and your hoping people will just stay off the water when we fish 3 weeks every 4th year? You are one dumb beek. It's a big river. Lots of room for everyone to fish. When theirs conflict it's usually because people are looking for it.
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Uuuum what? Theirs net openings literally every weekend and your hoping people will just stay off the water when we fish 3 weeks every 4th year? You are one dumb beek. It's a big river. Lots of room for everyone to fish. When theirs conflict it's usually because people are looking for it.
Just for the economic opening, When their is money and greed involved its a different beast out their.
Not saying that for the FSC fisheries that happen daily and seem to be way less intrusive to the sports fishery.
Anyways your right tho no reason to avoid it. If you can't handle a net though going though your drift and your hot headed tho stay home. Their is no way this ends good for sports fishermen.
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Seems thoughtless to me that DFO would plan economic opportunity openings on the weekends - wouldn't that just increase conflict? Why not do it as the same time as the commercial gillnetting below Mission Bridge, or even the day before? If the FN economic openings are upstream of the commercial openings anyway, do EO on Monday Tuesday and commercial on Wednesday and/ or Thursday. There's lots of options here.
On a somewhat unrelated note, are set-nets allowed to be left out overnight? We almost hit one in the early morning twilight yesterday - scare the crap out of us.
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I was fishing around island 22 today. They were drift netting the bar really close to shore and other boats. It doesnt bother me. What bothers me is seeing the lack of fish in the river. They probably pulled up 2 fish for one full sweep of the bar. We casted for hours at the tail end of the bar. We had first crack at the sockeye. Not a sniff. My friend and I were talking with the band members quite a bit. The other non FN om the bar were d!cks towards the FN. Adter a few runs the band members came to us and gifted a 30 pound spring each. One for me and one for my buddy. The 6 other guys who were hurling insults at the FN got pissy and left. I went home today with a big spring and roe for sturgeon.
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I was fishing around island 22 today. They were drift netting the bar really close to shore and other boats. It doesnt bother me. What bothers me is seeing the lack of fish in the river. They probably pulled up 2 fish for one full sweep of the bar. We casted for hours at the tail end of the bar. We had first crack at the sockeye. Not a sniff. My friend and I were talking with the band members quite a bit. The other non FN om the bar were d!cks towards the FN. Adter a few runs the band members came to us and gifted a 30 pound spring each. One for me and one for my buddy. The 6 other guys who were hurling insults at the FN got pissy and left. I went home today with a big spring and roe for sturgeon.
As thoughtful as that may seem, they are supposed to release alive all non-sockeye, and report all bycatch. I think they are giving away springs to avoid having their netting shut down for having too big of an impact on non-target species.
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So far, it looks like mainly drift nets are being allowed for 10-12 hours per day, Mon - Weds this week, from Sumas River (canal) upstream to Laidlaw.
There is also an opening of set and drift nets below Port Mann on Monday, from 3-10pm and another added from noon Tuesday through to Wednesday morning
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With all these openings and nets, let's call it a season guys. Look forward to the fall fishery in our tributaries. ;)
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As thoughtful as that may seem, they are supposed to release alive all non-sockeye, and report all bycatch. I think they are giving away springs to avoid having their netting shut down for having too big of an impact on non-target species.
I'm still blown away to see two big springs netted within 20 feet from the bar that had an army of people bouncing. For those fish to get by all those people is amazing. Was a real eye opener. Drift after drift . Zero sockeye caught by anglers and the nets kept picking fish up.
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Quick limit today up at a upper Frasr bar this morning. Lots of fish still moving through! Filling the freezer!
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Quick limit today up at a upper Frasr bar this morning. Lots of fish still moving through! Filling the freezer!
Opposite of what I (and many) experienced this morning at a bar near Aggasiz....
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Stacy McNeil
August 25 at 11:53 PM ·
Every year we deal with this. Disrespect for our indigenous rights and traditions, our sacred fishing grounds and our people.
Today, although not new to us, we had sports fisherman decide to anchor their boat in front of our fish camp. Two indigenous women and three children were at the river cutting and cleaning our fish, enjoying the teachings we were passing on and the gathering of our family’s food. The sports-fishermen began loud, obnoxious conversations loaded with disgraceful language. After some time, one of the mothers asked them to please stop using foul language in front of our children.
Their response was to tell us to shut up and begin urinating in front of us, asking us to suck their cocks. The first offender left his penis out for a long period of time, repeating his earlier request. The mother again asked for them to stop as children were present but they did not. They had no fear in front of us women and children. Eventually, their comments and lewdness got worse. According to them, we are dumb Indians who are stealing all of the fish, getting free fish and free gas. More and more words slandering our people and culture occurred.
While I was on the phone with rcmp, as the abuse could be heard all down the river, three boats full of indigenous warriors came and circled the offenders, suggesting that they move along. The offenders continued to insult these men, calling them down as people who have stolen fish for many years, etc. Eventually, they pulled anchor and drifted away - not before one of them rolled his pants and underwear down to provide everyone with a full frontal view of his privates.
All of these five “men” were drinking.
Rcmp reported to be on their way but did not come, calling first to say they would be sending instead an email address via text for us to send the photos we had taken. We have many and share one with you now.
Enough is enough. Our fishing grounds are sacred. Our ancient sturgeon use them to feed also and are being mercilessly tormented day in and day out. Sports fisherman should not fish near our traditional sites. Stop the disrespect. ✊🏼
As a white man this makes me so embarrassed and angry.
I am so sorry that the people of the SAY Nations have to experience this crap. I hope these pieces of cupcakes get busted for indecent exposure and child abuse.
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As a white man this makes me so embarrassed and angry.
I am so sorry that the people of the SAY Nations have to experience this crap. I hope these pieces of cupcakes get busted for indecent exposure and child abuse.
What other people do shouldn't embarrass you. That is false White Guilt coming into your subconscious. Let it go. Idiot's dont look the same. They come in all shapes and sizes.
I'm not calling that woman a liar. BUT. If grown men were waving their members at children, why didn't the police make an arrest ? If that were kids at a school it would be a different story. Am I to assume that an entire major RCMP department is racist towards natives and doesnt give a crap ? I doubt it.
The last part to that comment " Traditional fishing grounds " bothers me. If its band land, I stay away. By that logic, u dont want someone parking in front of my house because it's my traditional guest parking area. Common.
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the Police don't respond to many reported crimes in progress for a variety of reasons; priorities, difficulty of making an arrest (they'd need a boat in this case) time constraints etc.
I agree with Knnn, it's shameful.
BTW the Fraser is their traditional fishing grounds. Get over it.
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the Police don't respond to many reported crimes in progress for a variety of reasons; priorities, difficulty of making an arrest (they'd need a boat in this case) time constraints etc.
I agree with Knnn, it's shameful.
BTW the Fraser is their traditional fishing grounds. Get over it.
BTW it's my traditional fishing grounds as well. Just as they are everyone who grew up fishing the Fraser.
This whole i was here first logic is childish. I have no problems with what they do. We have plenty of family in a band near Vancouver. I myself and part FN. Dont talk to me like you know better. This country and world will always be in a state of growth and change. As human beings we all need to learn to share and respect other. That womans comment at the end was ignorant. The events that happened are disgusting. She ended on a very ignorant note. Get over it.
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So I grew up with FN people all around me and shared the river with them all the time, pretty hard not to growing up along the Skeena.....
Ignorant people and stupid people are everywhere, to what degree is purely in the eye of the beholder. Just the other day some nob was having fun chasing flocks of mergansers around the river in his jet boat on his way back from fishing, coming roaring right past me without a care in the world, almost costing me a fish from my rock garden. Felt like going down and meeting said boaters at the boat launch and offering a peace of my mind, but decided to let it pass and let karma get him. For every belligerent drunk lipping off the FN's, there's a meticulous person combing the shoreline picking up line and garbage and people helping perfect strangers land fish and share some wisdom. Focusing on all the bad apples is not reflective of this fishery, even as repulsive as it may be to some of the frowners on the angling method. Turning it into a race thing is just flat out pathetic. If you don't like it, do something about it or take up bowling......
Getting back to the fishery, anyone know how much longer it will stay open considering the test nets aren't exactly indicative of a huge late push of fish on the way? Surely there can't be any more area 29 GN openings to come this week.....
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BTW it's my traditional fishing grounds as well. Just as they are everyone who grew up fishing the Fraser.
This whole i was here first logic is childish.
LOL
'fraid not... it's the law. Much more to it but what' s the point ... people will get to the point of understanding themselves or never will.
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As a white man this makes me so embarrassed and angry.
I am so sorry that the people of the SAY Nations have to experience this crap. I hope these pieces of cupcakes get busted for indecent exposure and child abuse.
If the allegations are true, then charges are appropriate. I have not looked into finding video of the event as I wouldn't be surprised in the least that this took place. I don't need to see this sickening action as I've witnessed enough similar abusive garbage toward FN during salmon seasons over the years that I just can't be bothered to go to participate in the salmon harvest anymore. The BS rock throwing, launching bettties and hooks at the FN fishermen along with the verbal abuse - its all sickening but the verbal abuse and exposure to women and children is criminal and can't be ignored.
I'm sorry to those that were subjected to this garbage behavior. Maybe some prison time and surrendering of the boat used in this offense, to the FN Chief might be appropriate punishment. A "No" punishment action will surely cause even more muddied relations. I'm a little worried how this is going to play itself out.
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As a white man this makes me so embarrassed and angry.
I am so sorry that the people of the SAY Nations have to experience this crap. I hope these pieces of cupcakes get busted for indecent exposure and child abuse.
https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/08/27/fishermen-allegedly-shout-racial-slurs-and-expose-themselves-to-indigenous-family-fishing-along-fraser-river.html
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So how is the fishing? I'm taking the kid out to the bar tomorrow. Any ideas on the netting schedule, is the fish getting a break, people still catch em?
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Wondering if I might have to come down with the fishing flu , and call in sick for work or not . How is it out there ?
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So how is the fishing? I'm taking the kid out to the bar tomorrow. Any ideas on the netting schedule, is the fish getting a break, people still catch em?
The upper river netting has had a pretty significant impact on the rec fishery over the last couple of days... at least in Chilliwack / Aggasiz
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So far, it looks like mainly drift nets are being allowed for 10-12 hours per day, Mon - Weds this week, from Sumas River (canal) upstream to Laidlaw.
There is also an opening of set and drift nets below Port Mann on Monday, from 3-10pm.
Looks like another lower river FN opening added to the one above, from noon today (Tuesday) through to Wednesday morning....
and the upper river openings above have had the area expanded up to Hope ("Harrison R to Laidlaw/Jones Cr, Sumas River to Harrison, Agassiz to Hope")
In addition to the FSC openings above, the latest Fraser River Sockeye Update states that "several First Nation Economic Opportunity fisheries are being planned in the lower Fraser River"
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Fishing has been great upper river! Just put in the leg work to find out which bars are producing constitantly! Read the river and position yourself in a "travel" zone.
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Fishing has been great upper river! Just put in the leg work to find out which bars are producing constitantly! Read the river and position yourself in a "travel" zone.
What 'areas' have you experienced today that are producing? Many without a boat would likely not consider the last couple of days as 'great'.... but others please chime in....
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Cleaned up some garbage today at Gill and Agassiz Rosedale Bridge and only saw one fish hooked but was there a very short time. I actually got a video of that fish, funny but sad at the same time watch for it later on a different thread.
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just back from fishing the north shore west of Hope by foot access. I brought home a white spring of about 8lbs and a sockeye of about 5. Lost 2 sockeye. Fished about 6 hours. Saw a number hooked and landed. Some folks got their 2 sockeye. Late run projection has been down sized to 6 million. Not as fast as the last couple of trips but as I have said before the summer run tails off at this time. Adams river fish are not a big show at this point. Saw no FN fishing activity anywhere on the river, either crossing the Port Mann or from around Laidlaw to Hope.
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What 'areas' have you experienced today that are producing? Many without a boat would likely not consider the last couple of days as 'great'.... but others please chime in....
I hear people say the fishing is slow and talk about native and commercial openings! Lol. For myself and buddies it's been stellar! A quick limit for myself and my buddy yesterday afternoon on foot. Put the leg work in and find the good spots. Hint- fish high up on the north side of the river and in the main stem.
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I hear people say the fishing is slow and talk about native and commercial openings! Lol. For myself and buddies it's been stellar! A quick limit for myself and my buddy yesterday afternoon on foot. Put the leg work in and find the good spots. Hint- fish high up on the north side of the river and in the main stem.
It has been quite slow in the areas we have been fishing and had typically been limiting out in short order... there is a definite change... perhaps FN, perhaps changeover between runs, perhaps.... ?. End of the day, if you want fish, its currently fish 'hunting', and as was said above, finding the rarer travel lanes when putting in time to find them. Not my experience of great sockeye fishing... but all the power to those that do.
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Got my fish tonight on the lower . Had to work hard for them. Only runts being hooked where I was all covered in net marks. Fishing was slow today for sure thru chilliwack from what I saw .
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The best part of sockeye fishing, or any salmon fishing where the fish are moving by in numbers, is to watch your spot on the river slowly narrow as more and more people think you have "the hot spot." Definitely pays dividends to really monitor where your hooking up and what's happening with regards to bottom structure, at least with the bars just below Hope. Not to brag/preach/condescend the art of lining salmon, but certainly those who know seem to get in and get out a lot faster then the quadrennial beak out who hasn't held a rod since 2014.
On another note, how much rain is going to have to fall to turn Vedder Creek back into a river again? I can't imagine anything swimming up that in it's current state.
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Definitely pays dividends to really monitor where your hooking up and what's happening with regards to bottom structure, at least with the bars just below Hope. Not to brag/preach/condescend the art of lining salmon, but certainly those who know seem to get in and get out a lot faster then the quadrennial beak out who hasn't held a rod since 2014.
A little slower this morning but still a limit for a buddy out this morning. Just need to be in the good spot and get a proper drift. Don't be afraid to move around either. If the fishing sucks in one area of the river move to another. Talked to a fellow yesterday who was skunked at one bar and moved to another and limited out.
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Best part of sockeye fishing for me is catching the timing, having lots of fish pushing through, and hooking up readily. Has little to do with how anyone else does or any other aspect.... I certainly miss my boat this summer...
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Released a wild coho yesterday with one less maxillary. Felt horrible, Mouth of the Fraser river (in ocean) , Also landed an elusive late sockeye, Both males, one had about 40 sea lice on it and that was pretty nasty, Slime balls also. Looks like some Coho also starting to show in the in river test fishery so watch out for them.
(https://i.imgur.com/bZSiOUP.jpg)
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the coho are likely interior bound fish. If they show in numbers now there may be an in river shut down announced. The sockeye fishery stayed open into Sept in '10 and '14 but with the late run looking to be under forecast and interior coho doing poorly since '14, opportunity to catch sockeye may end after Labour Day.
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A little reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2885jm5eKw
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Anyone have the dfo posting
for above Hope after sept 3?
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Anyone have the dfo posting
for above Hope after sept 3?
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region3-eng.html
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So far, it looks like mainly drift nets are being allowed for 10-12 hours per day, Mon - Weds this week, from Sumas River (canal) upstream to Laidlaw.
There is also an opening of set and drift nets below Port Mann on Monday, from 3-10pm.Looks like another lower river FN opening added to the one above, from noon today (Tuesday) through to Wednesday morning....
and the upper river openings above have had the area expanded up to Hope ("Harrison R to Laidlaw/Jones Cr, Sumas River to Harrison, Agassiz to Hope")
In addition to the FSC openings above, the latest Fraser River Sockeye Update states that "several First Nation Economic Opportunity fisheries are being planned in the lower Fraser River"
Well, the FSC openings for this week have been extended through to Friday noon and the anticipated First Nation Economic Opportunity river openings are set to begin tomorrow (Thursday) morning through to noon on Friday, Port Mann to Sawmill Creek.
Seems like quite a few back-to-back... but that may be typical as I haven't paid attention in prior years. Anyone know if this amount of FN openings is typical?
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Well, rumor has it that DFO is not considering any extension past Sep 3rd. So get out there and get your limit once more in what might be the last Sockeye opening ever.
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So I consider myself pretty new to fishing and this was my first season on the big river fishing for sockeye. I had tremendous success, landed multiple fish including two beautiful silver red springs. I've also found a successful setup with a shorter leader that worked well for sockeye. In short, the setup suspends a small colorado blade on a corky. The total leader length is 1.5 meters ( and could probably be shorter ). Corky is pinned one foot from the colorado blade. The theory is that the corky should suspend the colorado blade just at the right level for sockeye to see. With this setup I had some really exciting violent bites. Yes, I believe sockeye did bite the colorado blade as I have hooked multiple sockeye on this setup and the corky and the small leader definitely reduce a chance of flossing.
Anyways, I am super excited to continue to fish for Chinook and would like to ask more experienced anglers a question. On the bars located at Hope, is there any hope hooking into Chinook using Fly Fishing setup? ( I am aware of planking, but I prefer more active ways to fish, such as spay casting, etc. )
If so, what kind of setup would you recommend? Any particular locations I should focus on ? Thanks in advance!
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Well, rumor has it that DFO is not considering any extension past Sep 3rd. So get out there and get your limit once more in what might be the last Sockeye opening ever.
We say this all the time. I think it's a bad attitude to have. Let's be hopeful here
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By the numbers, there's a positive chance for an extension, or a second rec opening..... I agree, let's be hopeful....
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By the way, any feedback from the last couple of days (Chilliwack / Aggasiz)... how has the fishing been?
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All doom and gloom. After commercial and native openings I am sure the river has been either great or very slow. Fact is the fish mill around in the chuck and school up until the water cools or rain comes then they start flying up. Lots of fish out there still.
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Slow today upper river...apparently better early morning...we didn't start until after 10am...
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Saw very few fish traveling up north arm on the flood tide last four days.
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By the way, any feedback from the last couple of days (Chilliwack / Aggasiz)... how has the fishing been?
Fishing has been super slow - nothing caught all year. However, flossing has been hot. Just need to find where the push of fish are moving. Wait times between pushes have ranged from 15 minutes to 4 hours
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lots of socks in the river. 4 of us limit out in 3 hrs yesterday at laidlaw plus one spring. River is running a bit slow so use a 2oz betty rod tip up and feel those snags out .Get out there early in the am and floss your two fish and get on with your day.
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It seems like the natives don't work too early to set the nets up. So morning is usually good to great and then you will be fishing for net-mark fish plus some stragglers for the rest of the long day. Lol.
So I consider myself pretty new to fishing and this was my first season on the big river fishing for sockeye. I had tremendous success, landed multiple fish including two beautiful silver red springs. I've also found a successful setup with a shorter leader that worked well for sockeye. In short, the setup suspends a small colorado blade on a corky. The total leader length is 1.5 meters ( and could probably be shorter ). Corky is pinned one foot from the colorado blade. The theory is that the corky should suspend the colorado blade just at the right level for sockeye to see. With this setup I had some really exciting violent bites. Yes, I believe sockeye did bite the colorado blade as I have hooked multiple sockeye on this setup and the corky and the small leader definitely reduce a chance of flossing.
Nice to see fishing buddy Dobrolub having success with his creative method. If you want to catch sockeye especially the aggressive bucks with them biting in the mouth, give his method a try. If his method is applied to the travel lane of sockeyes which is not hard to identify, you should be able to limit out with 2 mouth caught sockeyes at this water clarity level on the good days (with no netting below you). Great job buddy. Glad to see you having some great time.
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Saw very few fish traveling up north arm on the flood tide last four days.
The numbers through Mission have been dropping all week. While I get my 2 every time, in short order, most others I speak with have been struggling this week... except for some who post here.... hmmmm
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Fishing was brutal this a.m. Saw 5 fish total between 100 guys on 2 bars toward Hope, all caught before 0800. Spoke with Natives at Whatcom selling fish for $20 each. They said is was bad for them as well, only 6 fish on their last set
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And that's a wrap folks!
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=213069&ID=all
DFO shuts it down Sep 5th
Not a bad season - I went out five times, got skunked on opening day loosing 3 fish then easy limits every other time, no springs hooked or witnessed caught.
All in all definetely slower than 4 years ago. I never saw anything even close to the 5-10 fish on at the same time all the time and guts and blood flying all over, but still gratefull to get the chance to get out there.
At the spots I went I saw 0 issues with the crowd, each and every time I had respectful people around me and everyone was very polite.
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So I participated in my first Fraser River sockeye fishery one day last week , never bottom bounced before either , after I “caught” my two sockeye I stood on the bank and watched the other fishers, no one was playing the fish , just keep your drag locked down and get the fish to the beach , it was a rather unsatifying experience for me , I understand now why some do not participate in this fishery any more , I’m not sure if I will again either
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So I participated in my first Fraser River sockeye fishery one day last week , never bottom bounced before either , after I “caught” my two sockeye I stood on the bank and watched the other fishers, no one was playing the fish , just keep your drag locked down and get the fish to the beach , it was a rather unsatifying experience for me , I understand now why some do not participate in this fishery any more , I’m not sure if I will again either
This topic has been beaten to death for over 25 years now, but I'll give you the main points.
1. No TRUE fisherman considers bouncing for sockeye on the Fraser 'real fishing'. If they think otherwise....then they are suffering from delusions.
2. Many true fisherman still do it however (myself included), but for the purpose of harvesting delicious salmon....and no other reason. I do not find it relaxing unless for some reason I have the bar to myself which is like never....Fresh sockeye are 40 bucks a piece in the store and I will not pay that when I can get 2 fish in less than an hour 5 minutes from my house.
3. Bottom bouncing the Fraser results in about 99.9% of the Sockeye being flossed....meaning the fish is not an active participant in taking the offering. There is a rare fish or 2 that will chase the wool tie or corkie on the downswing later in the season when the water is cleaner, but the occurances are so rare, that it is irrelevant to bring it into the discussion.
4. The fact that the fish are snagged and not willing taking the bait is also irrelevant when taking into consideration that this is considered a harvest fishery and NOT a sport fishery. In one commercial opening this year (Area E), they gillnetted over 200,000 sockeye in 22 hours with who knows what for bycatch, while in that same period of time, sport fishers flossed less than a 1000 fish. In the grand scheme of things considering again that this is harvesting and not fishing....the methods of sportfisherman are irrelevant.
Finally in closing, if you are still trying to reconsile this type of fishery to TRUE sportsfishing....then you aren't in a place to understand how this works anyway.
So whether a person agrees with this or not....taking all things into consideration, with the millions of fish being seined and gillnetted, the rest of us who pay taxes deserve to enjoy a few thousand fish from this fishery....regardless whether they 'bite' or are 'flossed'.
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This topic has been beaten to death for over 25 years now, but I'll give you the main points.
1. No TRUE fisherman considers bouncing for sockeye on the Fraser 'real fishing'. If they think otherwise....then they are suffering from delusions.
2. Many true fisherman still do it however (myself included), but for the purpose of harvesting delicious salmon....and no other reason. I do not find it relaxing unless for some reason I have the bar to myself which is like never....Fresh sockeye are 40 bucks a piece in the store and I will not pay that when I can get 2 fish in less than an hour 5 minutes from my house.
3. Bottom bouncing the Fraser results in about 99.9% of the Sockeye being flossed....meaning the fish is not an active participant in taking the offering. There is a rare fish or 2 that will chase the wool tie or corkie on the downswing later in the season when the water is cleaner, but the occurances are so rare, that it is irrelevant to bring it into the discussion.
4. The fact that the fish are snagged and not willing taking the bait is also irrelevant when taking into consideration that this is considered a harvest fishery and NOT a sport fishery. In one commercial opening this year (Area E), they gillnetted over 200,000 sockeye in 22 hours with who knows what for bycatch, while in that same period of time, sport fishers flossed less than a 1000 fish. In the grand scheme of things considering again that this is harvesting and not fishing....the methods of sportfisherman are irrelevant.
Finally in closing, if you are still trying to reconsile this type of fishery to TRUE sportsfishing....then you aren't in a place to understand how this works anyway.
So whether a person agrees with this or not....taking all things into consideration, with the millions of fish being seined and gillnetted, the rest of us who pay taxes deserve to enjoy a few thousand fish from this fishery....regardless whether they 'bite' or are 'flossed'.
[/quote Well said. My sentiments exactly. That being said cant wait for coho on the pin. Tired of my hands being sore.
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This topic has been beaten to death for over 25 years now, but I'll give you the main points.
1. No TRUE fisherman considers bouncing for sockeye on the Fraser 'real fishing'. If they think otherwise....then they are suffering from delusions.
2. Many true fisherman still do it however (myself included), but for the purpose of harvesting delicious salmon....and no other reason. I do not find it relaxing unless for some reason I have the bar to myself which is like never....Fresh sockeye are 40 bucks a piece in the store and I will not pay that when I can get 2 fish in less than an hour 5 minutes from my house.
3. Bottom bouncing the Fraser results in about 99.9% of the Sockeye being flossed....meaning the fish is not an active participant in taking the offering. There is a rare fish or 2 that will chase the wool tie or corkie on the downswing later in the season when the water is cleaner, but the occurances are so rare, that it is irrelevant to bring it into the discussion.
4. The fact that the fish are snagged and not willing taking the bait is also irrelevant when taking into consideration that this is considered a harvest fishery and NOT a sport fishery. In one commercial opening this year (Area E), they gillnetted over 200,000 sockeye in 22 hours with who knows what for bycatch, while in that same period of time, sport fishers flossed less than a 1000 fish. In the grand scheme of things considering again that this is harvesting and not fishing....the methods of sportfisherman are irrelevant.
Finally in closing, if you are still trying to reconsile this type of fishery to TRUE sportsfishing....then you aren't in a place to understand how this works anyway.
So whether a person agrees with this or not....taking all things into consideration, with the millions of fish being seined and gillnetted, the rest of us who pay taxes deserve to enjoy a few thousand fish from this fishery....regardless whether they 'bite' or are 'flossed'.
no truer words, I totally agree, socks are a harvest fishery.........maybe we should sticky this post
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Iv had my fill of the Fraser and won't be going back. With the fishing as slow as it's been for the last week due to native openings both drift and set not much is making through other than the odd spring . Last 3 trips iv been skunked and saw very few fish even hooked by dozens of other anglers . For a run that was down graded all season it was sure raped and pillaged. More openings were given then deserved for sure. I don't feel guilty participating in the bottom bouncing whatsoever . Obviously as stated above it's not true fishing and a meat fishery. Other members of this forum who post videos of ignorant anglers fishing with rod and reel all over the internet like a bunch of bar fishing snob purists make me laugh. Give your head a shake and look at the bigger picture . If you don't like it there's plenty of bottles on the beach to pick up. optimistic for a future opening 4 years for now but doubt we will be seeing anything with poor management and stock trends continueing downward. Still I was super happy to harvest some fish this season and hope many took advantage of the limited opportunities we were granted. I'm Looking forward to topping off the freezer this fall on the local rivers 8)
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Bottom Bouncing.
Are you kidding me.... I would rather spend my time doing almost anything else.
Much rather go for a quiet hike up river than spend any time with a few hundred guys BBing a bar on the fraser.....
I can't wait till the coho season starts though.
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I've had some very enjoyable days catching sockeye on the Fraser. While the FN economic fishery takes it's share it's a small fraction of the commercial catch. Right now they are taking few fish despite their opening. The summer run is tailing off now and the late run fish haven't started to come in big numbers. They usually time right into Sept and looking at some past PSC reports the Sept 28 '10 report estimated there were still about 9 million fish holding off the Fraser mouth.
Most of the run has done at least as well as the forecast and somewhat better than the p50. The late run is lower than expected but still healthy. More fish will come in over the next few weeks and we'll see just how they tops out. They will certainly make escapement targets for that run I bet.
More and more I rely on the Mission escapement report and if you look at it, it's fallen to almost 10% of the peak daily passage of 2 or 3 weeks ago.
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Does anyone know the actual number of soceye First Nations have "reported" harvesting this year throughout the Fraser system ? That's information I'd like to know not the possibility of a good late run push coming through for awaiting nets .
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https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11318/august-31-2018-2.pdf
Scroll to the bottom for reported catches. Does a 1/4 of commercial numbers seem like a small fraction ? Seems pretty large to me......
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glad you are satisfied with a quarter of the pie, I'll take the rest.
Thanks for confirming what I wrote.
The commercial take is about 2.5 million. The FN economic opportunities catch is about 1/4 million
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https://www.psc.org/download/580/2018/11318/august-31-2018-2.pdf
There's no number yet for the recreational take in that document but I assume they must have had some sort of rough estimate or projection when they opened the rec fishery. Anyone know what (or even how) they are allocating for the rec take?
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So 8 years ago DFO gets a golden goose return of 30 million fish when they were expecting what...... 12 million? Hammer the return with as many nets as they could muster. I seem to recall reading an article saying commercial boats were taking their bounty to the North Coast because the fish plants down south were over capacity. 4 years later, still a pretty sizeable return of 20 million, and yet again they set up the gauntlet and absolutely hammer them.
This year they forecast a more traditional return estimate of 12 million considering the outmigration conditions and trending returns for other systems. So far 8 million have returned and a conservative estimate is that 4.5 of those are already on ice. Awaiting a 7 er 6 oh wait maybe 5.3 stay tuned next week and it will be 4 then finally we had no idea, let’s start a commission 2 million return of late run fish. But it’s ok, as long as we set the p50 target low enough in 2022, all is well.
What a joke........
Hope everyone kept their Canadian Tire receipts and can return their coffee grinder special.
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The original DFO rec opening notice FN 0726 states sockeye is open until Sept 3rd
The latest notice FN0923 states no fishing for sockeye beginning Sept 5th. There is no reference in this notice to the last one, so I does the latter notice supersedes the first notice and Sept 4 is open to rec sockeye retention...... or do both notices exist together (with Sept 4th being a grey zone)?
How are we interpreting this?
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There's no number yet for the recreational take in that document but I assume they must have had some sort of rough estimate or projection when they opened the rec fishery. Anyone know what (or even how) they are allocating for the rec take?
What do you think the number of fish is ....? Just throw a number out there! I'd bet money its less than 1% probably closer to .5 %
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So 8 years ago DFO gets a golden goose return of 30 million fish when they were expecting what...... 12 million? Hammer the return with as many nets as they could muster. I seem to recall reading an article saying commercial boats were taking their bounty to the North Coast because the fish plants down south were over capacity. 4 years later, still a pretty sizeable return of 20 million, and yet again they set up the gauntlet and absolutely hammer them.
This year they forecast a more traditional return estimate of 12 million considering the outmigration conditions and trending returns for other systems. So far 8 million have returned and a conservative estimate is that 4.5 of those are already on ice. Awaiting a 7 er 6 oh wait maybe 5.3 stay tuned next week and it will be 4 then finally we had no idea, let’s start a commission 2 million return of late run fish. But it’s ok, as long as we set the p50 target low enough in 2022, all is well.
What a joke........
Hope everyone kept their Canadian Tire receipts and can return their coffee grinder special.
I agree, this certainly appears to be mis-management... allowing way too much harvest to maintain / build this species (harvests of 4.5M to date: Comm: 2.5M, FN: 1M, US: 1M and only 3M have made it past Mission and not reported caught upstream by FN). If the runs are late (as an example, Area 20 test catches still showing 40% summer run fish), then there still may be a chance for conservation. There is apparently a fairly substantial late run volume estimated, and as was said, let's see what this turns into and who is going to get a crack at harvesting, and how often.
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Does anyone have an estimate on what sporty's harvest? Aside from extrapolations, is there any estimate from the powers that be?
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sorry but you have zero idea how it works... never stopped to consider the 2010 'bonaza' was based on fewer fish than have returned this year? Forget that only 2009 was only 10% of the forecast? Why is the 4 year cycle that follows 2018 the smallest of all?
Incompetence indeed.
LOL!
So 8 years ago DFO gets a golden goose return of 30 million fish when they were expecting what...... 12 million? Hammer the return with as many nets as they could muster. I seem to recall reading an article saying commercial boats were taking their bounty to the North Coast because the fish plants down south were over capacity. 4 years later, still a pretty sizeable return of 20 million, and yet again they set up the gauntlet and absolutely hammer them.
This year they forecast a more traditional return estimate of 12 million considering the outmigration conditions and trending returns for other systems. So far 8 million have returned and a conservative estimate is that 4.5 of those are already on ice. Awaiting a 7 er 6 oh wait maybe 5.3 stay tuned next week and it will be 4 then finally we had no idea, let’s start a commission 2 million return of late run fish. But it’s ok, as long as we set the p50 target low enough in 2022, all is well.
What a joke........
Hope everyone kept their Canadian Tire receipts and can return their coffee grinder special.
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I recall the sports in river was around 135,000 not sure if it was 2014 or 2010. they used to do survey;s at some of the bars. did not see any this year.
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Oh right the creel guys, I remember now.
I recall the sports in river was around 135,000 not sure if it was 2014 or 2010. they used to do survey;s at some of the bars. did not see any this year.
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I recall the sports in river was around 135,000 not sure if it was 2014 or 2010. they used to do survey;s at some of the bars. did not see any this year.
I launched at island 22 5 days a week this cycle. I saw them there after week 1 almost everyday.
DFO or a CO ( in a marked vehicle ) NEVER. They could have been keeping a low profile but I never saw them. I saw RCMP at island 22 arrest guys for public intoxication but that was it. I saw lots of shady happenings on the river. One day I talked to a local band. They showed me 35 springs in their boat. They had not a single care in the world about keeping those Springs. I asked if they were afraid of DFO seeing them, they couldn't give a flying fart about DFO. I saw one guy in a group of 8 land limits for everyone in a hour at one bar. I saw a guy in a boat throw betties at a dude wading in the water behind his boat. I saw two topless young girls bouncing for Sockeye ( that was exciting ). I landed limits in 10min and other days it seemed like the river was empty.
I was very happy to take part in this gongshow. Hope to do it again one day. But in the future I hope whatever government we have in place, I hope they invest money into more CO's.
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;D Hey with reference to the two young gals fishing, that gives a whole new meaning to the term "bouncin betties" :D
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sorry but you have zero idea how it works... never stopped to consider the 2010 'bonaza' was based on fewer fish than have returned this year? Forget that only 2009 was only 10% of the forecast? Why is the 4 year cycle that follows 2018 the smallest of all?
Incompetence indeed.
LOL!
I’m not going to argue with you Ralph, I’m not falling for your devils advocate tactics. You want to tell me I have no idea what I’m saying than you can provide more than one example.
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I’m not going to argue with you Ralph, I’m not falling for your devils advocate tactics. You want to tell me I have no idea what I’m saying than you can provide more than one example.
ha! - asking to provide more than one example is asking for an argument. Even at that I offered more than 1 question to ponder.
Anyway I'll grant your first wish. ;D
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Bright side is that an abrupt closure to everything but the FN should mean minimal interception for the coastal tributaries fish currently en route.
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The 2018 run was never going to be strong because of marine survival rates they knew this before hand. Who knows if the super trawlers out in international waters found the adams run or not.
The summer run came in strong and that's a positive note something that we should all be thankful about.
The 2017 pink run, Steelhead and others were strong indicators that marine survival rates had crashed. I left Coho and Chinook out of my analysis because some runs stay in the salish sea and the salish sea has different trends then runs that go out to alaska.
Next years pink run will indicate if ocean conditions have changed.
Enjoy the long weekend and the fish! some 10 pound sockeye to be had out their
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Good points WMY. Ocean survival, habitat capacity plus intra and inter-species competition are major determinates of productivity. Simply putting spawners in large numbers on the redds, in most cases is not the only factor that matters
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Round 2 for sockeye rec opening a possibility (when the late runs are coming in en mass)?
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It is a possibility ... 4 years from now
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I see dfo is opening the late run fish holding in the Straight to an on-going (no end date) seine net onslaught, starting tomorrow (Sept. 12th). Let's hope this doesn't turn into a regret. So far, they've allowed 58% of the total estimated return to be put on ice, which is a higher ratio than the final numbers in 2010, 2011, or 2014....
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ITQ's are quota fisheries. Each boat is given an individual quota
In 2018, Area B seine Fraser River Sockeye harvest opportunities will be
managed as an Individual Transferable Quota (ITQ) demonstration fishery and
will be based on available commercial TAC. Sufficient quota is required to
participate in any fishery opening listed below.
At this time the Area B cumulative individual quota in pieces for each Area B
licence is increased to 12,300 Sockeye salmon based on a share of 0.28411% and
a commercial TAC of 4,329,272 Sockeye. Each individual quota amount (in
pieces) will change if the available commercial TAC changes in-season and is
cumulative for the season. These commercial TACs are for the purpose of
calculating the individual quota amounts for Area B and H vessels only. The
vessel master must account for any fish caught to date and any reallocation
made.
Area 29:
Seines open to fishing from 06:00 hours until 21:00 hours daily starting
Wednesday, September 12 until further notice in Subareas 29-3, 29-4, 29-6, and
29-10 in waters no shallower than 45 metres (approximately 27 fathoms). Minimum
bunt mesh size 70 mm. The use of power skiffs is permitted.
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It's a sad day for democracy when FN and commercial can still harvest fish but Joe sixpack can not.
Not like I care to add to my bloated freezer. I am simply pointing out the fact that its f!ucked
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Just when you think things have become as stupid as possible...they find a way to get stupider. The seiners are out and the sporties aren't allowed to take another 2000 fish.....un freaking believable.
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earth to semi-literate forms of life!
1) Every sentient creature knows that after DFO refused to establish a sensible harvest structure on it's own, that close to 40 years ago the courts established that the sport sector comes last!
2) Sockeye are still open to sport retention in the Salish Sea in some parts of area 28 and 29.
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RIP Fraser Sockeye :(
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Thanks for clarifying the numbers, WMY.
If I understand what the opening info is saying, Area B (seine) and H (troll) in areas 18 and 29 combined have a limit of moving the total Cdn commercial TAC up to 4.3M fish. The last weekly report shows it at 2.5M, so they are authorized to bring in another 1.8M fish total....?
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Thanks for clarifying the numbers, WMY.
If I understand what the opening info is saying, Area B (seine) and H (troll) in areas 18 and 29 combined have a limit of moving the total Cdn commercial TAC up to 4.3M fish. The last weekly report shows it at 2.5M, so they are authorized to bring in another 1.8M fish total....?
I believe so. Hydroacoustic data shows just over 4 million have passed thru mission. That seems low to me.
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the last weekly report stated the number of fish still holding off the mouth of the Fraser was between about 2 million and 6.5 million. The large majority of the late run has not passed Mission.
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What do you think the number of fish is ....? Just throw a number out there! I'd bet money its less than 1% probably closer to .5 %
Does anyone have an estimate on what sporty's harvest? Aside from extrapolations, is there any estimate from the powers that be?
I think I found an answer, or at least a rough estimate. Looking at the PSC page for the Fraser River panel, there is an annual report for the 2014 sockeye season, but it's dated from just a few months ago.
https://www.psc.org/publications/annual-reports/fraser-river-panel/
In appendix H, there is a table that breaks down the total take, and what was allocated to each sector (commercial, First Nations, & non-commercial).
(https://i.imgur.com/gKpcz9C.gif)
I didnt read close enough to see their methods so no comment on the accuracy of these numbers but if we take it all at face value, the average take of each sector by % total catch of the last 4 sockeye cycles breaks down to:
| %TAC |
| Commercial | 72.8 |
| First Nations | 23.0 |
| Non-Commercial | 4.2 |
Take it for what it's worth.
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I'd love to see the escapements to go along with those cycles
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the final reports are found at: https://www.psc.org/publications/annual-reports/fraser-river-panel/
so the spawning escapement can be found there.
Escapement for 2014 was 5.877 million
The 2006 escapement, from which the record 2010 run was derived, was 4.61 million
It's worth noting that DanL's table excludes the US catch.
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I'd love to see the escapements to go along with those cycles
Adding to '06 and '14.... Escapements to spawning ground:
- 2010: 13.1 million (47% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.6 million (51% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 5.9 million (29% of final run estimate)
Escapement past Mission:
- 2010: 14.3 million (51% of final run estimate) (note: report stated 16 million, but this was a mgmt decision to align with other HA counts further upstream)
- 2011: 3.9 million (76% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 10.1 million (50% of final run estimate)... looks like alot of fish lost upstream of Mission in '14 (water volume / temp.?)
- 2018 YTD: 3.8 million (48% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (quantity past Mission + total marine TAC, )
Total all TAC:
- 2010: 13.6 million (49% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.1 million (41% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 11.2 million (56% of final run estimate)
- 2018 YTD: 4.7 million (60% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (total all TAC + quantity past Mission (less 762k upstream catch))
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Definitely looks like things are on a downward trend
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Adding to '06 and '14.... Escapements to spawning ground:
- 2010: 13.1 million (47% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.6 million (51% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 5.9 million (29% of final run estimate)
Escapement past Mission:
- 2010: 14.3 million (51% of final run estimate) (note: report stated 16 million, but this was a mgmt decision to align with other HA counts further upstream)
- 2011: 3.9 million (76% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 10.1 million (50% of final run estimate)... looks like alot of fish lost upstream of Mission in '14 (water volume / temp.?)
- 2018 YTD: 3.8 million (48% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (quantity past Mission + total marine TAC, )
Total all TAC:
- 2010: 13.6 million (49% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.1 million (41% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 11.2 million (56% of final run estimate)
- 2018 YTD: 4.7 million (60% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (total all TAC + quantity past Mission (less 762k upstream catch))
Those numbers tell us everything we need to know......or I should say already knew.
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The final estimate of the sockeye return in 2010 was 28 million.
In 2014, it was 20.1 million (approx 70% of the 2010 return).
In 2018, the return estimate is 13.9 million (70% of the 2014 return).
Not liking this trend.
It looks like DFO is targeting a 50-60% TAC in each of the last 2 big return years, so I would imagine the same for this year..... but the numbers above appear to indicate that its too much to be able to sustain the species.
Where are all the sockeye being sold? Not seeing a big bounty in any of my local grocery stores....
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Is there somewhere we can see the previous outgoing smolt numbers? Surely someone can find these in the DFO/PSC archives.......
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The final estimate of the sockeye return in 2010 was 28 million.
In 2014, it was 20.1 million (approx 70% of the 2010 return).
In 2018, the return estimate is 13.9 million (70% of the 2014 return).
Not liking this trend.
LOL! You guys have no idea how this works but will spin some sort of conspiracy theory out of anything.
As I mentioned above you also need to look at 2006 and earlier where the overall trend of abundance was down as was the exploitation rate.
Exploitation goes up with abundance because there is a declining return with spawning escapement. Record returns do not repeat over time but there is an echo effect ... 2010 was over double 2006, 2014 was close to double 2006 and now 2018 has more or less the same 2006. That's how the cycle works. High returns in one cycle are almost always followed by lower returns because the factors that cause an outlier are highly unlikely to repeat.
2010 was an outlier; a 1 in over 100 event. Any of you any heard of something the power law? Unlikely to re-occur in our life times
Before 1980 the cycle abundance was well under 10 million, sometimes well under 5 million.
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LOL! You guys have no idea how this works but will spin some sort of conspiracy theory out of anything.
As I mentioned above you also need to look at 2006 and earlier where the overall trend of abundance was down as was the exploitation rate.
Exploitation goes up with abundance because there is a declining return with spawning escapement. Record returns do not repeat over time but there is an echo effect ... 2010 was over double 2006, 2014 was close to double 2006 and now 2018 has more or less the same 2006. That's how the cycle works. High returns in one cycle are almost always followed by lower returns because the factors that cause an outlier are highly unlikely to repeat.
2010 was an outlier; a 1 in over 100 event. Any of you any heard of something the power law? Unlikely to re-occur in our life times
Before 1980 the cycle abundance was well under 10 million, sometimes well under 5 million.
Yawn
Let the people engage in conversation. Nobody is as smart as you. You make that quite obvious
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RalpH, you sound like you have some knowledge on the matter.... happy to be enlightened... Seems like the DFO had an opportunity to use the 2010 "outlying event" to build the stock, since they have been trying to rebuild it for decades, no? Including a commission in 2009 to investigate depleted returns....
Unless there is some max number for spawning over which there is diminishing returns, the harvest for these years not making alot of sense, so open to being enlightened......
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It’s kinda funny to be bickering over a quadrennial cycle of previously regarded “meat fish” as if it’s the last bastion of hope that the salmon fishery in the Fraser will survive. Worst case scenario...... exploitation rate supersedes maintaining the stock numbers and the stock collapses, Fraser sockeye remains shut down and all comigrating subspecies reap the benefit.
That’s been the mantra on the Skeena for years and I’m sure it’s true for many other river systems, depressed sockeye is good for just about every other stock as far as interception goes.
Still curious to see if anyone can provide outmigrating smolt numbers to match up with the exploitation rates and escapement reports from 2006-2014. Was there an increase in smolt production from the lakes or did they just encounter exceptional ocean conditions?
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Here is what Ralph is saying
Higher encampment does not = higher abundance 4 years later... To 2006 escapement of of 4 million resulted in an abundance of almost 30 million in 2010.
The 2010 Escapement of 12 million only resulted in an abundance of 20 million in 2014.
(https://i.imgur.com/nNSupqX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6gIcMtD.png)
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What I'm saying is that we have been blessed with the 2006/2010 outlying event, why not take advantage of it.... or are you saying we may as well put 'em on ice because letting 'em spawn has little effect? Not sure I follow that logic.
More fish that spawn (to whatever threshold) = more potential smolts.... birds and bees. In 2014, there was a high number past Mission that didn't make it to spawning grounds..... sure this data represents spawning numbers, and if so, how accurate is it?
Can't get past the birds/bees process....
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Most of the spawning grounds for the adams cycle have been over 97% full over many of the last cycle years. DFO has a formula for calculating how much space salmon need to spawn.
If spawning grounds get to full, fish returning after other salmon have already spawned will diss lodge the other salmon eggs when they make their redds. Thus there is a max capacity for spawning grounds.
PSC does have the spawning capacity numbers if you want to go did though that data.
The process isn't perfect make no mistake we do over fish some runs while targeting the dominate runs. Putting more spawning on the grounds is generally always better
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Still curious to see if anyone can provide outmigrating smolt numbers to match up with the exploitation rates and escapement reports from 2006-2014. Was there an increase in smolt production from the lakes or did they just encounter exceptional ocean conditions?
Afaik, only 2 Fraser River stocks have smolt enumerations, Cultus and Chilko. Dfo's Lake Studies group, based out of the Cultus Lake Laboratory, used to monitor sockeye numbers in the main rearing lakes, at least they did 10 years ago, lol. Those numbers were used in overall run predictions.
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IMO
Fraser sockeye is probably one of the most managed fisheries we have. If our other fisheries had even half of the management effort that goes into fraser sockeye we would be doing much better.
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Most of the spawning grounds for the adams cycle have been over 97% full over many of the last cycle years. DFO has a formula for calculating how much space salmon need to spawn.
If spawning grounds get to full, fish returning after other salmon have already spawned will diss lodge the other salmon eggs when they make their redds. Thus there is a max capacity for spawning grounds.
PSC does have the spawning capacity numbers if you want to go did though that data.
The process isn't perfect make no mistake we do over fish some runs while targeting the dominate runs. Putting more spawning on the grounds is generally always better
Sounds like management then tries to harvest just enough to stay under that threshold for the dominant runs?
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Sounds like management then tries to harvest just enough to stay under that threshold for the dominant runs?
No. There is some margin built in now to better take into account factors like in stream mortality and harvest above Mission. Recreational harvest the last couple of cycles (2010 & 2014) is now on the order of 1/4 million above Mission. Ten or 15 years ago the estimate was about 50k.
As far as sockeye returns for '15 through '17, these were recognized as brutal years for ocean survival - things improved from '16 on - the evidence from this cycle is still that ocean survival is the major determinate of abundance. We have seen many examples of species with low exploitation (most south coast steelhead) that tanked despite having little or no exploitation. In such an ecological regime it matters little how many fish get to spawn. The result is an overabundant new generation competing for marginal or poor resources.
Dave I have seen fry sampling on the Harrison in the spring. A 5 year chum fry sampling study took place on the Alouette not too long ago. Fry from the Alco hatchery were trucked to Neaves Road and released there. I also understood or have read that sockeye smolt sample enumeration takes place in the lower river. Stock origins are determined by genetic analysis like it is for the adult test fisheries. The lower river enumeration is the major input in pre-season forecasting.
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Dave I have seen fry sampling on the Harrison in the spring. A 5 year chum fry sampling study took place on the Alouette not too long ago. Fry from the Alco hatchery were trucked to Neaves Road and released there. I also understood or have read that sockeye smolt sample enumeration takes place in the lower river. Stock origins are determined by genetic analysis like it is for the adult test fisheries. The lower river enumeration is the major input in pre-season forecasting.
Sorry, thought we were talking sockeye .. there was (perhaps still is) a juvenile assessment program on the Fraser every spring monitoring fry and smolts of all species. DNA samples from sockeye may be taken during this operation but it does not have any individual stock enumeration component, so I am not sure what lower river program you are speaking of.
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Lower River = Lower Fraser
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Lower River = Lower Fraser
OK. Got that. Do you know of a sockeye juvenile assessment program there?
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https://www.psc.org/fund-project/season-of-the-smolt/
This recent article indicates smolt enumeration, including individual stocks, in Mission
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Thanks clarki. Wow, this program has expanded considerably since I was involved.
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Recreational Sockeye Opening Region 3 Kamloops Lake and Thompson river below Kamloops Lake
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=213593&ID=all
Sockeye Salmon:
Effective until September 30, 2018 at one hour after sunset, the daily limit is
two (2) Sockeye in Kamloops Lake and the Thompson River from the outlet of
Kamloops Lake downstream to fishing boundary signs located just downstream of
Gold Pan, except the three areas described below which are closed to fishing
for salmon. Fishing is permitted during daylight hours only.
Description of three closed areas:
1. Deadman - from the fishing boundary signs approximately 1 km downstream of
the Hwy No. 1 Bridge at Savona to the CN rail bridge approximately 500 m
downstream of the confluence with Deadman Creek.
2. Juniper - from the fishing boundary signs approximately 1.5 km downstream
from Juniper Beach park downstream approximately 4 km to the fishing boundary
signs located at 50°46.893' N and 121°08.110' W.
3. Ashcroft - from the fishing boundary sign at the upstream side of the mouth
of the Bonaparte River to Hwy 97C Bridge in Ashcroft.
Daylight hours only refers to (one hour before sunrise to one hour after
sunset). Reference to sunrise and sunset means the times for those events as
calculated by the National Research Council of Canada and published daily at
http://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/bc-45_metric_e.html
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At the end of the day - say what you will, it certainly looks like DFO is trying to allow as much harvest as possible (i.e. allowing 60% harvest of the return (as of Sept 7)) without adversely affecting certain (all?) runs, by trying to manage activities based on their estimates of the numbers making it to the spawning grounds.
Why let a fish escape if it is deemed that it won't contribute to future returns?... must be a DFO mantra, with all the political and commercial pressures.... to some degree, it makes sense; IMO, I'd put my trust in nature (deferring to allow more spawning) moreso than to our concepts.....
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hmmm - there is something close to 100 years of managing sockeye this way. No it's not perfect, yes there have been many mistakes but it has produced a lot of fish. We don't know how much fish FNs took before Brits, Canadian and Americans came here but it was likely substantial. They quickly traded it in quantity to the new arrivals.
It's also clear that a reasonably well managed commercial fishery is not a major threat to salmon populations.
What I find most amusing is that some 'sport anglers' believe the resource belongs exclusively to them.If they don't get to fish when and as they like, something is going wrong.
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We don't know how much fish FNs took before Brits, Canadian and Americans came here but it was likely substantial.
Do you dream this stuff up in your sleep? The natives took nothing in sockeye numbers back then like they do today. First of all they had no power boats, no technology....just traditional methods.....and its all irrelevant to the discussion anyways because there were no seiners or commercial gillnetters alongside them....meaning the overall catch was miniscule.
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well that's your opinion RG & mostly baseless. Sockeye was the food staple for FNs from the southern Island, in the valley and well up the river. FN populations were likely much higher than today so It's not hard to extrapolate estimates how many fish they needed just for basic dietary needs let alone trade and so forth.
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Sockeye was the food staple for FNs from the southern Island, in the valley and well up the river.
Actually if you do your research, you'd see that their staples were pinks and chinook on odd years and chinook (and some coho) on even years. Sockeye were an afterthought, except in the canyon where they were easy to dipnet. Their heavy interest in sockeye came later after the Caucasian was already here
FN populations were likely much higher than today
You have absolutely no source for this. The last century of census' has shown a consistant increase of First Nations with legal status. Before the Caucasian came, natives did have higher child mortality rates, but that all dropped fast after the caucasion brought advanced medicine over. Native people since we've been here have always had a higher fertility rate with more births than the Caucasian could ever dream to have. They have been increasing and continue to increase in numbers.
well that's your opinion RG & mostly baseless.
Not baseless at all. I'll say it again. Without commercial seiners and gillnets, there is no way the total native traditional catch was even a FRACTION of what (all fisheries combined) became with the commencment of commercial fisheries. You act like you're so smart, but your level of math and logistics are laughable.
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It was estimated that after European settlers arrived - the indigenous population took a crash of upwards of 80% of the population - largely due to smallpox and other diseases (https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/the-impact-of-smallpox-on-first-nations-on-the-west-coast). Pre-contact population estimates for BC vary widely with some estimates ranging from a conservative 100,000 to more than a million.
It was estimated the average Aboriginal salmon catch pre-contact to be ~88 million kg per year, comparable in magnitude to the average yearly commercial catch between 1901 and 2000 (Jones 2002).
“The Northwest Coast was estimated to have the second highest indigenous population density in North America (after California) at European contact, with population estimates ranging from 102,100 to 210,100. At an annual average per person consumption rate of 230 kg/yr, 200,000 people would annually consume 46,000 metric tons (50,706 tons) of salmon, comparable in magnitude to the average yearly commercial catch between 1901 and 2000 (Jones 2002).”
http://saveourskeenasalmon.org/threatened-treasures/historic-bc-salmon-returns/
“Comparable levels of production were achieved under traditional Aboriginal and contemporary industrial systems…
It was estimated the average Aboriginal catch pre-contact to be 88 million kg per year (see Carlson, supra note 28 at 141). This estimate is based on a consumption rate of 220 kg per capita per year and an estimated pre-epidemic Aboriginal population in the B.C. area of 400,000… the pre-contact catch can be estimated at between 60 and 106 million kg per year.”(that is roughly 80,000 metric tons)
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RG if you have sources you should cite them. I have a background in Anthropology & it's not just "close to 5 years "of 1st and 2nd year night school courses. There was intense fishing activity in the Fraser Canyon in the summer when sockeye migrate. Bands came from as far away as the Southern part of the Island to hereditary fishing locations in the Canyon. The canyon was preferred due to the warm summer winds that were perfect for drying salmon. Yearly consumption of dried fish was likely dozens per person per year. Sockeye were targeted as they have the highest oil and protein content. Other salmon were targeted for fresh fish or when sockeye were not plentiful. Native oral traditions record instances of low abundance and even total stock collapse that brought famine. Natives fished 24/7 for many months to catch and preserve fish whereas seine and gillnets may target sockeye a few days per year currently.
Population before the small pox and other epidemics vary widely but currently now moderate estimates suggests that there were three to five hundred thousand FNs in the Pacific Northwest of BC alone. ( https://opentextbc.ca/postconfederation/chapter/11-3-natives-by-the-numbers/ )
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looks pretty effective to me! maybe that's why DFO banned it?
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/165966.pdf
(https://i.imgur.com/gUsW8LN.png)
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It was estimated the average Aboriginal salmon catch pre-contact to be ~88 million kg per year, comparable in magnitude to the average yearly commercial catch between 1901 and 2000 (Jones 2002).
“The Northwest Coast was estimated to have the second highest indigenous population density in North America (after California) at European contact, with population estimates ranging from 102,100 to 210,100. At an annual average per person consumption rate of 230 kg/yr, 200,000 people would annually consume 46,000 metric tons (50,706 tons) of salmon, comparable in magnitude to the average yearly commercial catch between 1901 and 2000 (Jones 2002).”
You're talking basically from North of Prince Rupert to Portland....geographic borders were different. We're talking about catch on the Fraser system only. You would have to include the whole Vancouver Island and all the runs from the little streams up and down the coasts which are numbered well into the thousands. The catch numbers you have here aren't that bad when you consider the whole province plus the Pacific northwest....also given the fact that small streams were very healthy then....same small streams today many are devoid of salmon.
RG if you have sources you should cite them. I have a background in Anthropology & it's not just "close to 5 years "of 1st and 2nd year night school courses. There was intense fishing activity in the Fraser Canyon in the summer when sockeye migrate. Bands came from as far away as the Southern part of the Island to hereditary fishing locations in the Canyon. The canyon was preferred due to the warm summer winds that were perfect for drying salmon. Yearly consumption of dried fish was likely dozens per year. Sockeye were targeted as they have the highest oil and protein content. Other salmon were targeted for fresh fish or when sockeye were not plentiful. Native oral traditions record instances of low abundance and even total stock collapse that brought famine. Natives fished 24/7 for many months to catch and preserve fish whereas seine and gillnets may target sockeye a few days per year currently.
Again....it all comes down to match and logistics....During a good sockeye run, we know that the Mission echo counting estimates anywhere from 20000-150000 sockeye per DAY go by. I don't care how many guys are standing out there with dipnets....You simply can't scoop up that many fish with that ancient technology.
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"Again....it all comes down to match and logistics....During a good sockeye run, we know that the Mission echo counting estimates anywhere from 20000-150000 sockeye per DAY go by. I don't care how many guys are standing out there with dipnets....You simply can't scoop up that many fish with that ancient technology. "
They say the enemy of learning is knowing.
I guess a couple of weirs across the Adams wouldn't be effective? Those silly Indians would be out dip netting the Fraser instead trapping on the Allouette or Salmon or Nicomeckl (sp) because they're not smart enough to harvest efficiently. They'd all be standing on the Mission bridge dip netting.
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Again....it all comes down to match and logistics....During a good sockeye run, we know that the Mission echo counting estimates anywhere from 20000-150000 sockeye per DAY go by. I don't care how many guys are standing out there with dipnets....You simply can't scoop up that many fish with that ancient technology.
this is just a strawman argument. Who said they were scooping up 20,000 to 150,000 sockeye a day with dip nets? I said the numbers they took were substantial. I didn't say it was on an industrial scale.
If for example there were 50,000 FNs in the Fraser Basin with a yearly consumption of 3 dozen sockeye per year , that's close to 2 million fish per year.
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Wow, this thread escalated to the typical racial debate it always boils down to. First Nations took millions long before we got here, traditionally they’re main villages were located at choke points that allowed for advantageous salmon harvesting. Moricetown Canyon on the Bulkley, Fort Babine on Babine/Nilkitkwa Lake, Kisgegas Canyon on the Babine River, Kispiox at the mouth of the Kispiox River. What’s different today is what the smolts go into, hard to argue with ocean acidification through carbon sequestration, ice melt influencing salinity levels and ocean currents. Range expansion of predator species and major fluctuations in the levels of available biomass in the major ranges these salmon inhabit while in the ocean. This isn’t even touching on inland habitat change.......
The argument that “they took millions of fish before we got here coast wide, so we can take millions today” holds zero water. We shall see when the proof is in the pudding in 2022 just how the trend (or cycle) is fairing.
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Wow, this thread escalated to the typical racial debate it always boils down to. First Nations took millions long before we got here, traditionally they’re main villages were located at choke points that allowed for advantageous salmon harvesting. Moricetown Canyon on the Bulkley, Fort Babine on Babine/Nilkitkwa Lake, Kisgegas Canyon on the Babine River, Kispiox at the mouth of the Kispiox River. What’s different today is what the smolts go into, hard to argue with ocean acidification through carbon sequestration, ice melt influencing salinity levels and ocean currents. Range expansion of predator species and major fluctuations in the levels of available biomass in the major ranges these salmon inhabit while in the ocean. This isn’t even touching on inland habitat change.......
The argument that “they took millions of fish before we got here coast wide, so we can take millions today” holds zero water. We shall see when the proof is in the pudding in 2022 just how the trend (or cycle) is fairing.
You lost me at the first line. Something about race ? Yawn. Cant people speak frankly anymore ? BUT then you got me back into reading your post with a very informative ending. Well said.
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gee Mr Barley I mentioned declining ocean conditions and related lower survival rates several posts if not pages back. Yet people think our lakes and rivers are akin to puppy mills - we just need to have much larger #s of breeding pairs than dumb old DFO allows past the gillnets to have pre-historic scale massive returns. The ocean will do the rest.
Nobody said FNs take 'millions'.
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I’m not saying that simply putting more fish on the redds means more offspring. I’ve had that discussion with the nice folks at the Babine Weir/Fulton Creek Spawning Channel years back. Fully aware of carrying capacity, overspawning, production levels of lakes for rearing sockeye in these cases. IIRC years back they dumped nutrients in Morice Lake in an effort to boost sockeye carrying capacity and boost sockeye returns for the Wetsuweten Band all along the Bulkley/Morice which had little to no effect as spawners were simply too diluted within the enhanced Babine run and could never rebuild the numbers.
What is within our control though Ralph? And I’m not asking that as a rebuff to poke holes in your argument or to rationalize mine, I’m genuinely a concerned individual looking for some veteran wisdom about what we can do to conserve and maybe even rebuild what we have left without pointing fingers at anyone. We’re in mutual agreement about inland carrying capacity and declining ocean productivity. Where do we go from here?
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What is within our control though Ralph?... I’m genuinely a concerned individual... about what we can do to conserve and maybe even rebuild what we have left
What a lot to ask and I don't believe I am any more able to answer this than anyone else.
I am don't believe much is within our control as individuals. I can only speak for myself and believe others really have to stick with their gut, their own perception and beliefs.
I do believe the biggest threat our anadromous fisheries face currently is climate change & it's effect on the oceans. I am tempted to say take up trout fishing or get ready for striped bass and shad.
In our control is how we act and what we do. As an angler I have a relatively smaller carbon footprint than some though not necessarily by choice. Living close to Vancouver I have to travel more than someone who lives up the valley. But I don't go fishing close to everyday. Mostly once or 2x a week. I don't kill a lot fish. I don't own a power boat. I think the small trend to 'human powered' fishing craft is a positive thing. High powered boast - not that good.
I think however useless, write our policy makers. Tell them what you think and what you are concerned about. Thinking of sockeye consider Cultus Lake as the prime illustration of how to destroy a good sockeye population. As a watershed Cultus is over used and over developed. We need to do more to protect out shorelines and water basins for greedy developers and over use. Could Chilliwack Lake be next?
What is in our control is what we do. The alliances and relationships made, the perceptions of the non-angling public we form.
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What a lot to ask and I don't believe I am any more able to answer this than anyone else.
I am don't believe much is within our control as individuals. I can only speak for myself and believe others really have to stick with their gut, their own perception and beliefs.
I do believe the biggest threat our anadromous fisheries face currently is climate change & it's effect on the oceans.
What is in our control is what we do. The alliances and relationships made, the perceptions of the non-angling public we form.
Man....do you sound like a politician......and that shouldn't be taken as a compliment...
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Man....do you sound like a politician......and that shouldn't be taken as a compliment...
I neither expect or would accept such a thing from you.
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A TON of sockeye rolling around out there yesterday. We were bar fishing Spaghetti bar area and counted over 50 throughout the morning.
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Mission Hydro-acoustic #s have jumped to around 100 to 150K in the last few days. Cool temperatures and rain have got the Adams River fish moving upstream in big #s
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Yeah, They are in mass right now.
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Except for one day in there where the numbers plummeted (Sept 20: dropped to 24k from 145k the day prior).... odd....
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Including fish mortality and those taken in fisheries, Lapointe expects some 750,000 late-run sockeye will make it to their Adams River spawning grounds, a number similar to the 2014 dominant year.
https://www.revelstokereview.com/news/race-is-on-for-shuswap-late-run-sockeye-salmon/
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Adding to '06 and '14.... Escapements to spawning ground:
- 2010: 13.1 million (47% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.6 million (51% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 5.9 million (29% of final run estimate)
Escapement past Mission:
- 2010: 14.3 million (51% of final run estimate) (note: report stated 16 million, but this was a mgmt decision to align with other HA counts further upstream)
- 2011: 3.9 million (76% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 10.1 million (50% of final run estimate)... looks like alot of fish lost upstream of Mission in '14 (water volume / temp.?)
- 2018 YTD: 3.8 million (48% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (quantity past Mission + total marine TAC, )
Total all TAC:
- 2010: 13.6 million (49% of final run estimate)
- 2011: 2.1 million (41% of final run estimate)
- 2014: 11.2 million (56% of final run estimate)
- 2018 YTD: 4.7 million (60% of all accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (total all TAC + quantity past Mission (less 762k upstream catch))
From the latest PSC update, seems like the numbers are trending in the right direction (IMO)....
Escapement past Mission:
- 2018 YTD: 4.8 million (50% of all* accounted, as of Sept. 21/18) (*all=quantity past Mission + total marine TAC)
Total all TAC:
- 2018 YTD: 5.3 million (57% of all^ accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (^all=total all TAC + quantity past Mission (less 867k upstream catch))
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Am I misreading today's commercial fishery notice for purse seine (FN1048-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine - Area B - Area 29).... it looks like they are 'being read the riot act' by DFO.... wrist slapping due to some noncompliance out there....?
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214405&ID=all (https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214405&ID=all)
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Am I misreading today's commercial fishery notice for purse seine (FN1048-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine - Area B - Area 29).... it looks like they are 'being read the riot act' by DFO.... wrist slapping due to some noncompliance out there....?
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214405&ID=all (https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214405&ID=all)
Hardly. It's tough for DFO to slap around Jimmy and his feet. He has deep pockets after all
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Aboriginal economic sockeye opening in river as well. Beach seines for sockeye so they can separate out the coho and steelhead. Yeahhhh right what a joke
Rip coho and steelhead
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Hardly. It's tough for DFO to slap around Jimmy and his feet. He has deep pockets after all
.. just a love letter then? ;) Seems kinda disciplinary in nature to me....
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Aboriginal economic sockeye opening in river as well. Beach seines for sockeye so they can separate out the coho and steelhead. Yeahhhh right what a joke
Rip coho and steelhead
Good thing there's a bait ban on the cap to make up for this
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I am just blown away. The rec sector is closed for retention of Sockeye in the fraser why ? To prevent snagging of Sreelhead and Coho ? Seems legit. Except for when we had the opening and saw a FN boat with 38 Springs on board. I can remeber that band handing them out like candy to every non FN on Moutain bar for 3 days every day. Am I to assume that that nonsense doesnt apply to Coho or Steelhead ? Yeah..... I'm sure they'll be tossing those dead fish right back into the Fraser.
Jimmy's boats have the right to fish for profit and the common man cant ? There's something wrong here.
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Aboriginal economic sockeye opening in river as well. Beach seines for sockeye so they can separate out the coho and steelhead. Yeahhhh right what a joke
Rip coho and steelhead
...you should go watch then to see 1) if they get any coho or steelhead in the seine 2) what they do with them
have a chat with the DFO observers on site and see what they say.
They have been opening beach seines in Sept and October for years.
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for those interested the sports catch in the fraser was 67,000.
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I am just blown away. The rec sector is closed for retention of Sockeye in the fraser why ? To prevent snagging of Sreelhead and Coho ? Seems legit. Except for when we had the opening and saw a FN boat with 38 Springs on board. I can remeber that band handing them out like candy to every non FN on Moutain bar for 3 days every day. Am I to assume that that nonsense doesnt apply to Coho or Steelhead ? Yeah..... I'm sure they'll be tossing those dead fish right back into the Fraser.
Jimmy's boats have the right to fish for profit and the common man cant ? There's something wrong here.
Get used to it...this is the new normal. Tax paying citizens bow down to special interest groups...
No other demographic gets screwed as much as the middleclass.
I wonder who they'll ask for tax money when the day comes where the middle class no longer exists.
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gee Rob you sound like an economic expert! What exactly is the 'middle class'?
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for those interested the sports catch in the fraser was 67,000.
Unbelievable.
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for those interested the sports catch in the fraser was 67,000.
they are not reporting the marine (tidal) catch as yet.
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gee Rob you sound like an economic expert! What exactly is the 'middle class'?
Really Ralph? Wealthy people hide their money.....at least they pay sales tax on what they buy, but poor people (and certain special interest groups of course **cough** *natives* ** cough**) pay virtually nothing in taxes.... and are a drain on the economy. Middle class are the people who pay all the taxes and get the least back.....been that way forever now....and just getting worse each year.
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21 Seine boats working off the Fraser estuary now. Scooping up the last of the sockeye. Pictures to follow.
Funny, not enough fish for the sporties.
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21 Seine boats working off the Fraser estuary now. Scooping up the last of the sockeye. Pictures to follow.
25%-50% post release mortality for coho, chinook and steelhead.
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for those interested the sports catch in the fraser was 67,000.
thank you. :)
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Can’t understand the opening, 90% of the sockeye are red and don’t make good table fare
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Jimmy Pattison 1 - sockeye -0
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So if I understand this correctly, the river was closed (in essence, to bottom bouncing) due to DFO's decision to protect a couple of runs (which tributaries are these destined for? Years ago they opened sockeye retention upstream of the Vedder)....
- They allow catching in the chuck (except gill netting, thank god), including near the Fraser mouth... don't the protected runs need to stage / swim past the mouth?
- Seine fishers appear to be in some level of noncompliance, hence the issuance of notice FN1048-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine - Area B - Area 29.... does the potential noncompliance include issues with by-catch?
- Now they allow FN catches in the river.....
I agree, rec fishers getting a raw deal
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Can’t understand the opening, 90% of the sockeye are red and don’t make good table fare
Turning while still in salt water?
If not, 3-4 days swim from mouth to Aggasiz, never thought they would turn that fast once they enter fresh water....
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I suppose it is a matter of perspective and opinion if rec anglers are getting a raw deal.
However other than 2010 and 2014 I can't recall many years when sockeye remained open much past Labour Day. Both those years had very large returns; 2010 the largest on record, 2014 certainly in the top 3 on record.
Closures were frequently in place to protect Interior coho or at minimum 'selective fishing methods' requests to allow harvest of chinook and pinks, in off numbered years.
Sport angling closures in freshwater are the norm and openings are for the most part by exception. DFO manages the fishery as a whole so that some spots are open while other closed may not be of much meaning in the larger context.
Overall the closure on sockeye retention is the norm but really what you mean is it's closed where you fish, ergo you must be discriminated against.
Yeah you are discriminated against. We all are everyday in some form. Discrimination isn't always a bad thing and sometimes it's downright justified.
Get over it.
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Discrimination isn't always a bad thing and sometimes it's downright justified.
Get over it.
It is absolute trash like this that comes out of your mouth which is why very few here give you any credibility to what you say. Unbelievable.
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It is absolute trash like this that comes out of your mouth which is why very few here give you any credibility to what you say. Unbelievable.
Out of my mouth? Are you unable to discriminate between the written word and audible speech? ;D
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I suppose it is a matter of perspective and opinion if rec anglers are getting a raw deal.
However other than 2010 and 2014 I can't recall many years when sockeye remained open much past Labour Day. Both those years had very large returns; 2010 the largest on record, 2014 certainly in the top 3 on record.
Closures were frequently in place to protect Interior coho or at minimum 'selective fishing methods' requests to allow harvest of chinook and pinks, in off numbered years.
Yeah you are discriminated against. We all are everyday in some form. Discrimination isn't always a bad thing and sometimes it's downright justified.
Get over it.
RalpH - I'm not following your logic....
I'm saying that:
- We have been told the reason for the river closure was to protect certain runs... makes sense
- Then the river is opened to certain groups (and the mouth/tidal to other groups) in spite of this need to protect the runs
- Rec fishers would likely have the least by-catch impact on these runs, by far, out of any of the groups
- Rec fishers are left without an opportunity to harvest from the largest part of the 2006/2010/2014 cycle run in 2018 (where in 2010 the rec opening closed Sept. 19th (run peak was Sept 12) and 2014 the opening closed Oct 5 (run peak was Sept 19)). Also, not sure what tributary runs are being protected, but in 2011, the Fraser rec opening remained open upstream of the Vedder after Sept 5, until the 19th)
If its about run protection, then DFO is saying one thing and doing another, thereby, the freshwater rec fishers are being left behind.
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Forget it folks, whatever arguments and stats you bring up RalphH is always going be come out on top. It's simple - he is the most knowledgable and insightful person on this forum - always was, always will. He'll comment on every thread and defeat your argument with a bang. Spare yourselves the embarassment and focus on other activities.
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Ralph lost me a long time ago. I used to moderate three old fishing forums. People like that arnt worth my time. I honestly skim over what he wrote or dont even bother. His words are not worth my time. I often wonder if hes a recreational fisherman. His arguments always seem to favor the dark side. Like I said. Not worth a quote or a reply.
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Roger that. Thanks gentlemen.
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I often wonder if hes a recreational fisherman.
LOL! That's what it usually comes to "...do you even fish?". Believe me I have fished longer and more than often than you. Likely will be that way until you die.
BTW I have moderated fishing forums as well. Not something I would want to do again. Is moderating all about a uniform way of thinking?If so you are well suited.
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Frankly we can all ignore the posters who are constantly an advocate for the causes of FN & DFO. If almost all their posts are defending the unjust treatments of the recreational fishermen, then they have lost our respect. It will be nice to hear some pro fishermen comments from them once in a while but you seldom see that. It will be nice to see more poster who are posting as fishermen's advocate here. After all this is a fishing forum. Even if nothing much will change whatever we say here, at least give the poor sporties a chance to rant the feelings without being 'lectured' that FN and DFO are not the problems but we are. Not that we need more sockeyes, but letting the commies and FN scoop up millions of sockeyes when we collectively have less than 100K and yet we are shut out as if we can endanger the sockeyes is nothing but another kick on our rights to fish as a group. There is nothing to defend the unjust treatment. Do we need more sockeyes in our freezers. Probably not. But it is not about having more fish. It is about our rights as a group who pay taxes and licenses and getting shafted. Give us a break!
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BTW I have moderated fishing forums as well. Not something I would want to do again.
Nor does anyone here want you to. I can't imagine a faster way to destroy this fishing forum.
Frankly we can all ignore the posters who are constantly an advocate for the causes of FN & DFO. If almost all their posts are defending the unjust treatments of the recreational fishermen, then they have lost our respect. It will be nice to hear some pro fishermen comments from them once in a while but you seldom see that. It will be nice to see more poster who are posting as fishermen's advocate here. After all this is a fishing forum. Even if nothing much will change whatever we say here, at least give the poor sporties a chance to rant the feelings without being 'lectured' that FN and DFO are not the problems but we are. Not that we need more sockeyes, but letting the commies and FN scoop up millions of sockeyes when we collectively have less than 100K and yet we are shut out as if we can endanger the sockeyes is nothing but another kick on our rights to fish as a group. There is nothing to defend the unjust treatment. Do we need more sockeyes in our freezers. Probably not. But it is not about having more fish. It is about our rights as a group who pay taxes and licenses and getting shafted. Give us a break!
Well said...100% agree. It is quite confusing why someone who 'CLAIMS' to be a true blue sports fisherman is always defending DFO and the FN for taking our opportunities away more and more year after year.
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Nor does anyone here want you to. I can't imagine a faster way to destroy this fishing forum.
I agree
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You can also ignore the users whose posts you don't want to read. That's what I do now. Go to your profile and find ignore user and add the user name. 8)
I also think it's time to close the discussion. The season is over. Whining and crying over how badly you were treated as a result is pointless and perhaps childish. Just my humble opinion. ;D
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All sectors cry and wine
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Has any recognized Sport Fishing advocacy group complained about the Sept 5th sockeye closure on the Fraser? I don't know of any. A lot of sports anglers want it shut down all together. Now I've been clear I don't feel that way but it's a fact the Fraser sockeye fishery centered on Chilliwack is very controversial. Unlike the Chilliwack flossery, the salt water sockeye fishery is selective. It's also been kept away from sections of area 29 to reduce impacts on IF coho and other stocks headed into the river.
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Catching Sockeye....
Is harvesting fish.... but it is not Fishing.
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The SFAB is basically controlled by salt water anglers who think that once a fish enters a river it should be left to spawn and out of condition.
They don’t have a very high opinion of Spey flossers too
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The SFAB is the only advocacy group? How about the the FFSB or the SFIB or the Steelhead Society or the BCFFF? There at at least a half dozen anging clubs in the LM/FV, what about them?
If I ever meet a spey flosser, I will let them know how some cheap trolls feel about their angling practice.
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" I also think it's time to close the discussion "
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On that note, and the Sept. 26 DFO notice shutting down the river for October to protect Interior Steelhead, river recreational Sockeye 2018 has indeed come to a close either:
- prior to the largest part of the return having pushed through (late run fish running late (holding in the chuck)), or
- with the late run very misjudged by DFO - being much smaller than estimated
... can only watch the Mission escape reports to tell....
And with the PSC shutdown for the season and (presumably) no further weekly reports, I guess we'll have to wait for the 2018 annual report to find out what the overall raping (I mean non-recreational harvesting) % was of the overall return.
over and out
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Last I read the PSC estimate on the late run was 6 million which is significantly lower than the pre-season estimate of 7.4 million. That's a 20% forecast error. It's obvious that the DFO/PSC forecast models have been seriously underestimating actual returns for a few years at least. In that context while a 20% error while not good it isn't the worst they have done. This fall run cycle, thanks to the Adams and Weaver Creek stocks, is the most productive Fraser stock so it does get harvested at a higher %. Even if the PSC council is no longer issuing weekly reports (Sept 21st was the last) the Mission HA numbers are still tabulated and DFO is still issuing updates as they did on Tuesday.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214513&ID=all
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Immediate salmon retention closure has been issued for the Fraser River mouth:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214818&ID=all
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To protect the steelhead which so rarely get caught if at all by sports fishermen. Lets not forget the relentless onslaught of commercial gill and seine and native fishing that continues even during the closure. The chum gill net fishery is how the steelhead have met thier demise. Way to go DfO. Idiots.
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as the province's closure of the Thompson starts Monday it will be interesting to see if similar closure announcements are made for the Fraser from the mouth to Hope at that time.
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To protect the steelhead which so rarely get caught if at all by sports fishermen. Lets not forget the relentless onslaught of commercial gill and seine and native fishing that continues even during the closure. The chum gill net fishery is how the steelhead have met thier demise. Way to go DfO. Idiots.
To be fair I was at Gill road two days ago and saw one steelhead landed on a spin and glo. I've heard rumors of Steelhead taking a bar setup but I didn't believe it. I was converted that day.
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Gill seems to be a decent spot for steelhead I saw a few pictures of some flossed at the tail end of the sockeye opening
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And of course....the sporties are kicked out....but strangely enough.....the FNs were still allowed 'economic' netting opportunities the day before the closure. We've been basically shut down since Sept 4th, but many other user groups only just got shut down now.
Mark my words....When they open the Fraser back up for salmon on Oct 25th, there will be a FULL gill net opening for chum roe right from Point Grey to the Mission bridge....and they will counter every conservation measure (booting the sporties out *cough*) by allowing a Steelhead bycatch massacre.....seen it happen for too many years now....just watch.
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The gillnet assault has already been announced with consecutive openings starting right on the first day when it opens. Then you have the FN fisheries that are practically ongoing every day since the beginning of summer.
I'm sure the commercials will more than make up for the time lost so everybody is happy.
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And of course....the sporties are kicked out....but strangely enough.....the FNs were still allowed 'economic' netting opportunities the day before the closure. We've been basically shut down since Sept 4th, but many other user groups only just got shut down now.
Mark my words....When they open the Fraser back up for salmon on Oct 25th, there will be a FULL gill net opening for chum roe right from Point Grey to the Mission bridge....and they will counter every conservation measure (booting the sporties out *cough*) by allowing a Steelhead bycatch massacre.....seen it happen for too many years now....just watch.
Band at Harrison mills are pulling up nets as I type this. In the Fraser at Calamity point.
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Immediate salmon retention closure has been issued for the Fraser River mouth:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214818&ID=all
Half a dozen boats trolling off the mouth of the north arm right now ?
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Half a dozen boats trolling off the mouth of the north arm right now ?
Commercial or rec ?
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Sportys with downriggers out
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They are in 29-3 or 29-4 it’s open
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I would say two of those boats are definitely not far enough out for that but I'm not sure how far out the line is ?
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Draw a line from the end of north arm and south arm jetty. Stay outside that.
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Last I read the PSC estimate on the late run was 6 million which is significantly lower than the pre-season estimate of 7.4 million. That's a 20% forecast error. It's obvious that the DFO/PSC forecast models have been seriously underestimating actual returns for a few years at least. In that context while a 20% error while not good it isn't the worst they have done. This fall run cycle, thanks to the Adams and Weaver Creek stocks, is the most productive Fraser stock so it does get harvested at a higher %. Even if the PSC council is no longer issuing weekly reports (Sept 21st was the last) the Mission HA numbers are still tabulated and DFO is still issuing updates as they did on Tuesday.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=214513&ID=all
Having a look at the HA Mission numbers, unless they are still holding in the chuck, the late run was completely over estimated and/or decimated by seine nets, by DFO. Yesterday's HA numbers: 7,600 (lowest since July 13th). Since Sept 4th (Fraser closure, pretty much at end of summer run), only 1.6M late runs have made it past Mission....
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you're right as far as the numbers go. The Sept 25th sockeye update said numbers in the chuck were highly uncertain and estimated it at 0.5 million to 1.5 million. As I believe I said before segments of the Fall run are so productive it is often harvested at a high ratio. Weaver Creek for example can produce well over 200k+ but only needs 20k or so to fill the spawning channel. Much the same with the Lower Adams.
Looking at Mission; PSC reported Mission passage of 800k as of Sept 14 with a catch of 2million. Since then about 1.2 million have passed Mission per HA fence. Escapement of 2 million to Sep 30th
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Isn't the late run supposed to be the largest volume? Looks like a whole lot never made it back. That should be considered a big deal and looks like DFO allowed a much greater harvest than made it past Mission... thought DFO's first priority was conservation...? They certainly preach it (shutting down a whole river for a few steelhead), but didn't practice it for the late run socks.... sad, disheartening, and further confidence undermining....
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Well that's your opinion. Which with $2... as the saying goes. The 'total accounted' for is the total catch plus the Mission escapement. They were at about 50% over 2 weeks ago. I guess the catch numbers could be found if you scratched around. It also matters how close the escapement is to the target escapement. The red line would be are they under the minimum escapement? Do you know what those numbers are? Good things to know before deciding the sky is falling.
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The final estimate of the sockeye return in 2010 was 28 million.
In 2014, it was 20.1 million (approx 70% of the 2010 return).
In 2018, the return estimate is 13.9 million (70% of the 2014 return).
Not liking this trend.
It looks like DFO is targeting a 50-60% TAC in each of the last 2 big return years, so I would imagine the same for this year..... but the numbers above appear to indicate that its too much to be able to sustain the species.
If I understand what the opening info is saying, Area B (seine) and H (troll) in areas 18 and 29 combined have a limit of moving the total Cdn commercial TAC up to 4.3M fish. The last weekly report shows it at 2.5M, so they are authorized to bring in another 1.8M fish total....?
If the above assumptions are accurate and Commercial met their TAC limit, then total TAC would have been approx. 6.6M sockeye. With an escapement to date past Mission of 4.5M (5.3M less the 800k caught upstream), that puts the total estimated return at 11.1M, the harvest from that being 60%....
So much for 2018's return being 70% of 2014's.... more like 55%... back to my opinion that DFO could do alot more to protect this anomaly cycle to maximize returns and help with a species that in 2009 had an investigation commissioned to determine what could be done to bring back a species at risk.
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per the Fraser Panel Annual reports and the last weekly report for this year. Exploitation rates in % are:
Year 06 10 14 18
E Stuart 14 6 11 1
E Summer 44 41 45 36
Summer 51 41 56 49
Late 39 51 58
total 42 48 55
A final number for the late component is not yet available for this year.
I have graphed these which makes it a bit easier to see trends and the exploitation rates for early Stuart and Early Summer are definitely down. The summer component is more or less the same.
Don't have a reliable late component number and am guessing this year will come in around 50% even though it is over 25% lower than 2006. So it's up but OTOH this is bound to be skewed by the record returns of '10 and '14.
Looking at one cycle in isolation may introduce a bias. Exploitation rates have been significantly lower in other years; 19% in 2015 & 2016, 30% in 2012, 8% in 2009. I am not cherry picking low numbers as not every year is available on the PSC website.
The 06 escapement was about 3 million and that returned a record 28 million plus. A big escapement isn't necessarily needed for a big return.
I have the table and graphs in a pdf. Send me a message if interested.
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From the latest PSC update, seems like the numbers are trending in the right direction (IMO)....
Escapement past Mission:
- 2018 YTD: 4.8 million (50% of all* accounted, as of Sept. 21/18) (*all=quantity past Mission + total marine TAC)
Total all TAC:
- 2018 YTD: 5.3 million (57% of all^ accounted, as of Sept. 07/18) (^all=total all TAC + quantity past Mission (less 867k upstream catch))
As of Sept. 7th, the total TAC for 2018 (exploitation the term you use Ralph?) was approx. 57%. Based on the light numbers past Mission since then and the fleet of seine nets, I can't see how that number could come down for the final for the year. While a huge spawning escapement may not be needed to create a healthy return in 4 years' time:
- this year certainly looks to have been over harvested (in comparison to other years)... lets face it, DFO really screwed up (or they decided to over-harvest... especially the late run, or worse yet - they don't think they over-harvested); and,
- again, IMO take advantage of a naturally-occurring oddity (the '10/'14/'18 cycle) and let nature take its course to help with re-building the species
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The 06 escapement was about 3 million and that returned a record 28 million plus. A big escapement isn't necessarily needed for a big return.
Citing that anomaly to further any argument is a bit of a stretch don’t you think?
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Citing that anomaly to further any argument is a bit of a stretch don’t you think?
What anomaly? The 2006 escapement was in line with the usual target. It was quite capable of producing a larger return. For whatever reason not the least of which was the 2009 collapse many factors lined up to produce a large return in 2010. There's little or no real evidence that the 2014 return was directly due to the 2010 return. Very large spawning escapements often produce less than stellar returns in the next cycle. The reverse is also true. Some of this was discussed above. In my view It's the major flaw in the argument marshal and others have been making. It is also the major flaw in the claim made above that some of these runs were over harvested, be it in 2010 or 2014. The exploitation rate (PSC term) in those years is fairly consistent with previous years in the cycle.
TAC is a planning number based on estimated return. Exploitation rate describes the actual harvest as a %of the total calculated return.
As far as 'rebuilding stocks'. The return evidence is the stocks are pretty healthy. The most troubled component, the Early Stuart was subject to very little harvest. Early summer and summer came back in healthy numbers and while the late component came back in lower #s than forecast it certainly isn't in trouble.
I'd also note that at least based on the last in season forecast (Sept 21st) this years run is above the median return for all the returns for this cycle since 1930 - and that excludes a number of poor cycles returns before that
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I agree with Ralph sockeye is really well managed but because people seem to only be able to remember the 1980's to 2000 where all the cycles were experience extremely high survival rates and fishing was open every year for retention that is all people remember. No one here remembers 1920 to 1960 where there was similar abundance to what we are seeing today.
Its clear that all 4 years migrate out to the same ocean and compete with each other in the same areas. Some runs like chillko migrate all the way up to the Bering sea where they share the same areas with Alaska sockeye. Bistal Bay sockeye is currently seeing some of the biggest returns ever. I Think next year because the ocean conditions have been getting better the 2019 return of sockeye will probably be better then the 2015 return. I may have to eat my words next year lol
(https://i.imgur.com/6gIcMtD.png)
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from 1914 and many decades on what you see if the effect of the 1913 railway slide that blocked the river. That year is believed to have been the one of the biggest returns on record bigger than 2010. That year was the dominant cycle. After that it switched to the current 2018 cycle. Problems with fish passage continued until after WW2 when the modern fish ways were built and in at least 1941 conditions seriously hampered fish passage throughout the season.
some history: https://www.psc.org/about-us/history-purpose/our-history/
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I understand your reasoning Ralph and it makes a lot of sense, there is no reason to believe that simply dropping the exploitation rate/TAC (whatever fancy word you want to use) that it would yield more spawners in a linear sense of spawners to offspring. The Fraser is a little bit of a different animal than I'm accustomed to (Skeena/Nass) with so many different runs and spawning times that all encounter different conditions enroute so while I may comment on it, I'm not as knowledgable as many of the vets on here.
That being said, I can also understand the logic of the others on here that argue why should we micromanage every substock right down to the last fish needed to spawn instead of letting nature take care of itself with regards to overspawning and carry capacity. Which lakes on the Fraser have spawning channels? Why aren't more spawning channels created on the bigger inland lakes like the Chilko and Quesnel?
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Not many spawning channels and nothing to compare to the babine. There are details on the PSC website.Can't answer why there aren't more. Don't forget the problems Fulton River etc caused for steelehad and other fish on the Skeena.
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1 good set yesterday in the whonnock test.
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If I recall correctly, there is a fair amount of over-spawning in Fraser Sockeye - fertilized eggs get kicked out and killed by later fish arriving and taking over the nest. I always thought that over-spawning was a waste of resources and controlling spawning numbers through harvesting was not a bad thing.
However, I was wondering today if we have been losing some amount of genetic diversity by reducing the amount over-spawning and that has reduced survival rates somehow.
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If I recall correctly, there is a fair amount of over-spawning in Fraser Sockeye - fertilized eggs get kicked out and killed by later fish arriving and taking over the nest. I always thought that over-spawning was a waste of resources and controlling spawning numbers through harvesting was not a bad thing.
However, I was wondering today if we have been losing some amount of genetic diversity by reducing the amount over-spawning and that has reduced survival rates somehow.
I would think over-spawning would favor the late returning fish in a particular stock, since they would be digging up the first spawned redds. It would also favor fish that live long after the spawn and continue to guard their redds.
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Not many spawning channels and nothing to compare to the babine. There are details on the PSC website.Can't answer why there aren't more. Don't forget the problems Fulton River etc caused for steelehad and other fish on the Skeena.
The enhanced runs to Pinkut and Fulton definitely had a major impact on summer run steelhead as they comigrate back together at the same time and I know many anglers (including myself) who love poor sockeye years simply for the fall steelhead fishery. To my knowledge the IFS (what's left of them) seem to migrate more at this time of year and so are more susceptible to the chum commercial fishery than the sockeye.
The spawning channels listed for the Fraser are the Nadina-20k capacity, Horsefly-20k capacity, Gates-20k capacity and Weaver-45k capacity. Seems rather odd to me that ONE spawning channel on the Babine has more capacity than all the Fraser channels combined. Granted Babine is a huge lake and has proven that it can handle rearing that amount of fry but surely the Quesnel or the Chilko would be comparable.
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Looks like we can probably stick a fork in this one she seems to be done for the season. Looks like the majority have now headed up, with the marine area 29 troll numbers drastically down.
With just over 5.6 million escapement past mission.
https://www.psc.org/download/130/frp-data/4553/fraser-river-sockeye-escapement-summary.pdf
Overall given the poor marine condition these smolts were tossed into they seem to have had a pretty decent return.
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Expecting a banner year for pinks next year now that the "warm blob" was a few years ago.
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Expecting a banner year for pinks next year now that the "warm blob" was a few years ago.
even if the return doubles from 2017 it will be what 3 million?
That would be nice even at that!