Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: MetalAndFeathers on June 01, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
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Just a heads up the natives have already put the weirs up and are completely blocking the river. So no fish will be pushing up anytime soon
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That is just so sad. This system used to be the prior and joy of Vancouver early coho fishing. Now even the early season blue backs are off limit to the sporties.
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How long do they stay up for?
I don't know much about it, but aren't they only ffective when the river is really low? As soon as there's decent flow can't the fishies just go right over them?
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they are very effective and stay up until September / Oct big flush. cap stays low most of the times during summer time
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No need to waste time there.
See the report in the video below.
https://youtu.be/KFSdqWYJSlk (https://youtu.be/KFSdqWYJSlk)
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It's always been a sad waste of money. That poor hatchery (Just like the Chehalis hatchery) is nothing more than a first nations food bank.
We all know it's the truth
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Honestly I have a lot less a problem with this then the netting on wild stock Fraser or Squamish fish. When the river is low enough for the weirs to go up then hardly anything would be pushing up the system anyways even without any weirs in place. Let them have this one imo. Atleast it’s sustainable and doesn’t have an impact on future returns provided the hatchery gets their brood stock.
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It's always been a sad waste of money. That poor hatchery (Just like the Chehalis hatchery) is nothing more than a first nations food bank.
We all know it's the truth
Pfft. So there is no economic value in the the very popular beach fishery, nor the in very large fleet of sport and guide boats that ply the waters during the summer and fall?
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This is not a forum on economics.
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It has been my understanding that the hatchery on the Capilano was built for the Native food fishery what was destroyed when they built Cleveland Dam. The sport fishing availability is a bonus. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.
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Exactly what Clarki said.
Fish still make it past their little blockade....it's not like it's a gill net FFS. It's food fishery too for them....leave it to rest and go fish the beaches or the cable pool
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Pfft. So there is no economic value in the the very popular beach fishery, nor the in very large fleet of sport and guide boats that ply the waters during the summer and fall?
most of the 'money' generated in not in the in river fishery. The Cap fishery is pretty limited in scope - crowded (in every sense) to a short piece of canyon water and as people mentioned there is not a lot of fishing through most of the summer - the water is too skinny. Blame the dam! The goal of federal hatcheries is not really to provide in river sport fisheries - that's just a by-product Weirs are a traditional FN harvest method and sizable numbers of fish get by them.
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Exactly what Clarki said.
Fish still make it past their little blockade....it's not like it's a gill net FFS. It's food fishery too for them....leave it to rest and go fish the beaches or the cable pool
Besides the lower blockage, they also do one higher up just below the Marine Drive Bridge. Fish can't get past that one even with the highest 16ft tide. It will be a wipe out of the early season stock if they block there too.
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What then is the main purpose of federal hatcheries?
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Besides the lower blockage, they also do one higher up just below the Marine Drive Bridge. Fish can't get past that one even with the highest 16ft tide. It will be a wipe out of the early season stock if they block there too.
Garbage. They always get by, keep watching the cable pool and the hatchery. They get the bigger clipped ho's.
Besides it's a total hatchery show other than a handful of spots where they can even attempt to create a redd.
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"Weirs are a traditional FN harvest method and sizable numbers of fish get by them."
There is no debate there on their traditional method of fishing. But blocking the entire river from early season on is not being responsible as 'stewards' of the land and fish resources. If there is no more heavy rain till fall, then they may be taking most fish (if they block from Marine Drive too which they do every year when the water is low and rain not expected). Tradition can't be used as an excuse to own the fish all to themselves when there are other user groups and when the hatchery need to have fish for brood stock. At least the Cap hatchery is a tourist attraction. Lol. The natives normally don't block until late June when a lot of the early stock would come in and fill the fish ladder with fish. But this year's drought just enables the natives to block the river a bit too early. I wonder if the hatchery has any say to the natives to open up the weirs if there isn't enough fish in the holding tank from early season return.
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Garbage. They always get by, keep watching the cable pool and the hatchery. They get the bigger clipped ho's.
Besides it's a total hatchery show other than a handful of spots where they can even attempt to create a redd.
Yes they always got by in the past when natives normally blocked in late June or July, allowing the early stock to arrive the hatchery. But if you have seen the upper blockage at the Marine Drive Bridge when the fish have to sail up a mini fall in low water, no fish can get through the weirs there. There is a lesser channel there at the fall but it dries up as the water shallows. Go see it yourself. So if those weirs are up there now and the other channel is dry, no fish can get up river.
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"Weirs are a traditional FN harvest method and sizable numbers of fish get by them."
"There is no debate there on their traditional method of fishing. But blocking the entire river from early season on is not being responsible as 'stewards' of the land and fish resources."
Traditionally that was how it was done. The weirs had traps from which the fish were removed and the traps were opened to allow fish to proceed upstream.
There really isn't a stewardship issue here as the late spring early summer run is overwhelmingly thanks to hatchery production.
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It doesn’t make a lick of difference. They aren’t effecting future returns. Let them harvest hatchery fish however they please. They get the excess fish from the hatchery anyways. If you want to lobby for change complain about something worthwhile that actually effects the quality of the sports fishery on the cap. Like the ridiculous bait ban in the fall.
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So who are we going to blame the cap steelhead being all but extiupulated on?
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So who are we going to blame the cap steelhead being all but extiupulated on?
Why not blame the dam? It can't argue back and it's very difficult to hurt its feelings.
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Damn dam.
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So who are we going to blame the cap steelhead being all but extiupulated on?
The near zero spawning habitat because of the dam
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What then is the main purpose of federal hatcheries?
They were originally built to make up for dwindling wild salmon that supply commercial fisheries; sports fishing was a by product.
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The near zero spawning habitat because of the dam
I dident think any of the salmonids naturally spawn in the cap. Expect for some chum/chinook that spawn in hadden/ brothers creeks.
Most just go right into the hatchery was my understanding.
Do steelhead respond differently to hatchery enhancement compared to coho and chinook?
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I think there is some (kind of) natural steelhead. Too many unclipped winter runs for there to not be a little natural spawning occurring
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So who are we going to blame the cap [summer] steelhead being all but extiupulated on?
burying most of their habit and rearing areas under a reservoir made it inevitable don't you think?
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burying most of their habit and rearing areas under a reservoir made it inevitable don't you think?
I mean ultimately yes, but their is a lot of systems that have seen steelhead all but disappear
ocean survival rate and unstatiable harvest levels on wild stocks seem to be the issues of today
If there was zero harvest by all on the system and hatchery enhanced their would be alot more steelhead in the system around.
But hey maybe i'm wrong maybe it just took 50 years too feel the full impact of the damn being built. Ocean survival rates and harvest had nothing to do with it.
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Urbanization is the other major factor facing wild steelhead populations. Habitat loss is a huge factor on many small runs in urban areas. VI has been hit hard by logging and has done those systems no favors.
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I think by the time the hatchery came into operation the summer runs numbers were pretty low. IIRC an accidental release of chlorinated water into the hatchery water supply killed the entire brood stock one year not so long after it went into operation. Add to that the pressure from the early coho fishery, poaching and low ocean survival, they trickled away to less than nothing. Last I heard the return had been 1 adult fish some years ago.
Any angler in the GVRD ought to think about the dam and it's effect on the Cap salmon every time they water their lawn or have a drink of water.
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Well some Coho are making it past the weirs. There are fish at the hatchery... not lots though.
I did spot at least 8 Steelhead in the river above the footbridge in the no fishing zone
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I dident think any of the salmonids naturally spawn in the cap. Expect for some chum/chinook that spawn in hadden/ brothers creeks.
I've seen Chum spawning in the main river near the old skateboard bowl in October.
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I've seen Chum spawning in the main river near the old skateboard bowl in October.
that doesn’t mean it was successful...
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that doesn’t mean it was successful...
The fact that there were quite a few Chum there spawning tells me successful spawning takes place.
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Well some Coho are making it past the weirs. There are fish at the hatchery... not lots though.
I did spot at least 8 Steelhead in the river above the footbridge in the no fishing zone
Those Coho pushed up in April-May. The river has been barren since the water dropped and the weirs were put up a few weeks ago. I checked out the weirs at last light the other day and the metal gate the FN "leave open during the night" was still in place and definitely blocking any fish movement.
The fact that there were quite a few Chum there spawning tells me successful spawning takes place.
I can also back up this fact. There are a lot of chum that congregate in certain spots mid river that does make me think successful spawning does happen.
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Does the hatchery raise chum fry? I’ve heard the only successful chum spawning in brothers creek but maybe someone with a bit more knowledge of the system can enlighten me... I just don’t see the eggs surviving in the mainstem with the dam controlled flows going from extreme drought to flood in such unnatural spikes
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Does the hatchery raise chum fry? I’ve heard the only successful chum spawning in brothers creek but maybe someone with a bit more knowledge of the system can enlighten me... I just don’t see the eggs surviving in the mainstem with the dam controlled flows going from extreme drought to flood in such unnatural spikes
I believe they only stock Coho, Chinook and steelhead. The water does fluctuate but usually when the chum spawn in late October-November the water usually stays at a steady level until summer unless there is a dry and cold spike in December which kills the flow. Some of these gravel patches mid river will remain underwater even when its in drought stage but the majority will be dried. In March or April this year I noticed a bunch of fry milling about in the shallows so it basically confirms natural spawning happens. I think the actual problem is the lack of food in the river for the fry/smolts, I have never seen any insect except for flies in the summer. Perhaps stream fertilization is needed?
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The hatchery receives about 100000 chum salmon eggs (varies from year to year), usually hatching in mid january and released mid april between a number of streams by the West Van Streamkeepers.
The Flow varies significantly in October and November just like every other system in the LML and with the massive swings in water volume no fertile soil is left in the main stem to support bug life. It is only the small creek tributaries that provide suitable spawning habitat off the Capilano river.
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Actually Cap Hatchery do's between 20 and 25 000 chum eggs per season from fish that swim into the hatchery. The West Van streams are serviced by the Community Advisor for DFO who uses Squamish system chum for those streams if they are available for Tenderfoot Hatchery. The last few years that has not happened due to poor Squamish chum returns and now they are only moving Squamish chum eggs to Bowen Island.
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Happy retirement Brian!
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Looking forward to it Dave after 39 years of work. I can now do what I want just like you and Buck
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Was up checking out the cap 2wks ago and there were 2 fish in the windows to see and some steelys in top areas.
Went there again for a few hours beginning of the week and there were about 12 fish in the viewing glass but they have all been in the system for awhile. Not bullet chrome. Have to check the Kayak web camera for water levels before I venture up again.
Fn are blocking right now.
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I fished a pool that usually has a few fish on the evening of June 9th right after the water bumped up to 2.5m and was on its way down and had no bites. Don't waste your time, go somewhere else.
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I fished a pool that usually has a few fish on the evening of June 9th right after the water bumped up to 2.5m and was on its way down and had no bites. Don't waste your time, go somewhere else.
Lots of seals patrolling the mouth, not many made it up on the last water bumped
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Looking forward to it Dave after 39 years of work. I can now do what I want just like you and Buck
Congrats! I think I might've been with you on your first job - Upper Pitt, 1979? We got a little fishing in (link to photo below). I have a couple of photos with you in them if you're interested.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuXiKvW-aydm8Hi3-QKHanhUTxr5 (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuXiKvW-aydm8Hi3-QKHanhUTxr5)
I'd appreciate any assistance about why the "insert image" function doesn't work for me - I tried the above url in it and nothing happened.
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Wall to wall guys with the bump today. One fish bonked all day at cable and not much elsewhere, seals are doing work down there.
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Fish are just tight lipped thats all...plenty of fish in the system by now...
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Yes that was me. Nice picture. That rod was the first rod I ever made and is still in the pile of rods I have but not used in 20+ years. The reel I also still have ( a friend once told me never to get rid of any of your fishing gear) So if you were at Pitt with me then then this is either Carl, Vic or my guess is Mike as we stayed late to finish up the dead pitch. You would have also been there with me when the bear broke into the cabin we were in at the time.
You can send the pictures along as it will be a hoot to see them back when there were almost nobody fishing the upper Pitt River.
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I'd appreciate any assistance about why the "insert image" function doesn't work for me - I tried the above url in it and nothing happened.
It's not a standard picture file such as a .jpg or .gif. It looks to be a dynamic photo format from a database. Look through your photo server to see if there is a convert of post as jpg or similar function.
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It's not a standard picture file such as a .jpg or .gif. It looks to be a dynamic photo format from a database. Look through your photo server to see if there is a convert of post as jpg or similar function.
Thank you ... kind of obvious now :-[
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https://youtu.be/SQsg3p424Ko
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https://youtu.be/SQsg3p424Ko
What really bugs me is that fish stocks were doing fine until the First Nations Peoples showed up.
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?!?....
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What really bugs me is that fish stocks were doing fine until the First Nations Peoples showed up.
That is about the stupidest statement I have seen since I was born. Imagine how many more fish we're in the Cap before non natives built a dam blocking the entire river of any suitable spawning areas. The fish stocks on the Cap are doing just fine,this year had a really good early coho run. BTW first Nations people never showed up, hence the name "FIRST Nations"........
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?!?....
It was sarcasm but I do appreciate that somebody thinks that I said the stupidest thing they've heard since they were born 8)
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The title of this tread is appropriate for the following post, brief announcement.
The use of roe in the Capilano is completely out of hand, in some runs more than 50% of the anglers use it.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/1719/fishing_synopsis_2017-19_region2.pdf
Bait ban, Aug 1-Oct 31; release all steelhead.
If you chuck guts in the Cap before October 31, 2018, I will take your photograph and I will call DFO.
Sure, nothing might happen right away but after enough time and if others follow suite, eventually the weight of evidence will be enough that DFO will do something.
So you have to ask yourself, "do you feel lucky, well do you"?
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It's a stupid rule. It's a 100% hatchery system with no fertile gravel. I'm not condoning breaking the rules but with all the poaching on wild, fragile and systems in decline I don't see how it's a good use of a fisheries officers time to hand out petty fines to guys that aren't doing any harm. It's like giving tickets for jay walking. All your going to be doing is pulling the enforcement in the area from rivers like the Squamish where there actually needed. Let's say DFO does do something and everyone stops using roe on the cap. What's been accomplished? A few dozen more fish make it back into the hatchery to be scooped up by the Squamish Nation and sold to Earls.
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The only thing the bait ban promotes is flossing and snagging. In a run where 10 guys aren't using bait maybe one is actually fishing legit.
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Agreed.
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The title of this tread is appropriate for the following post, brief announcement.
The use of roe in the Capilano is completely out of hand, in some runs more than 50% of the anglers use it.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/1719/fishing_synopsis_2017-19_region2.pdf
Bait ban, Aug 1-Oct 31; release all steelhead.
If you chuck guts in the Cap before October 31, 2018, I will take your photograph and I will call DFO.
Sure, nothing might happen right away but after enough time and if others follow suite, eventually the weight of evidence will be enough that DFO will do something.
So you have to ask yourself, "do you feel luck, well do you"?
BRING IT.
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BRING IT.
And I'll stand by his side when he does.
The law is the law. Nobody is above it.
If you feel so strongly that goo should be allowed on the Cap, use the myriad legal venues at your disposal (bring it up at your fishing club meetings, write letters, gather signatures, lobby local politicians.
Breaking the law will only land you in trouble. Ask those who thought they were smarter than the cops and lit up joints on city streets back in the 80s...
Defying the rules by openly breaking them DOESN'T show a strong character, but rather a weak, yet boastful one.
Besides, fishing with bait is for little fat kids who can't catch fish unless they feed them. ;) :P
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Change the regs to No fishing for steelhead July 31-sept 31. The amount of times those sad tired over hooked steelhead in the cable pool get casted at daily is depressing.
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BRING IT.
Really????.....What a well thought response! So......promote laws, uphold laws, protect laws.....only when they are convenient. Otherwise, do as you see fit??? Wow!!!
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And I'll stand by his side when he does.
The law is the law. Nobody is above it.
If you feel so strongly that goo should be allowed on the Cap, use the myriad legal venues at your disposal (bring it up at your fishing club meetings, write letters, gather signatures, lobby local politicians.
Breaking the law will only land you in trouble. Ask those who thought they were smarter than the cops and lit up joints on city streets back in the 80s...
Defying the rules by openly breaking them DOESN'T show a strong character, but rather a weak, yet boastful one.
Besides, fishing with bait is for little fat kids who can't catch fish unless they feed them. ;) :P
Milo is the classic example of a fisherman who wasn't any good at fishing and could barely catch anything so they started fly fishing to justify not being able to catch fish. Then talks down bait fishing like he is above it.
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BRING IT.
Richard ( Dick ) Cranium ( For brains )
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The argument that it is ethically/morally OK to use roe on the Cap appears to be based on a lot of conjecture that the bait ban is a stupid rule. Is that the gist of it? I presume this opinion is based on hard science and/or backed up by years of meticulous and detailed research, or is it based on less noble reasons?
Has anyone actually tried to research this issue, tried to change DFO's opinion or even tried to clarify with DFO why the ban is in place. Too much effort I guess, when it's just easier to break the rules, all in the name of instant self gratification. I wonder if this is a generational issue?
If people feel justified in using roe, does that mean they should also feel justified in using a barbed hook? Why not a barbed hook with three points; hell why not wrap some lead around that sucker? After all it's only a hatchery kill system, so what does it matter, right? Depending on the degree of an individuals moral flexibility, people might as well start bonking wild fish, because everyone knows there are no wild fish on the system? As more and more rules get openly flaunted how much easier is it for everyone else to become more "flexible" on how many, what sizes and what species of fish are retained? Where do you draw the line exactly and, as a top rod, would you not wish to set a good example to encourage other less experienced or knowledgeable anglers to become better rather than lesser participants in this sport.
Personally I have no idea why there is a bait ban, but I also do not feel the need to question it. I would hope the even if top rods thought a rule was stupid, they would still not flaunt the law and encourage, by example, others to do the same.
BRING IT. Really; for your third post? Would you prefer cookies or PB&J?
Aaron, I'm disappointed, I thought you to be a conscientious angler and the thinly veiled threat was particularly impressive.
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The argument that it is ethically/morally OK to use roe on the Cap appears to be based on a lot of conjecture that the bait ban is a stupid rule. Is that the gist of it? I presume this opinion is based on hard science and/or backed up by years of meticulous and detailed research, or is it based on less noble reasons?
Has anyone actually tried to research this issue, tried to change DFO's opinion or even tried to clarify with DFO why the ban is in place. Too much effort I guess, when it's just easier to break the rules, all in the name of instant self gratification. I wonder if this is a generational issue?
If people feel justified in using roe, does that mean they should also feel justified in using a barbed hook? Why not a barbed hook with three points; hell why not wrap some lead around that sucker? After all it's only a hatchery kill system, so what does it matter, right? Depending on the degree of an individuals moral flexibility, people might as well start bonking wild fish, because everyone knows there are no wild fish on the system? As more and more rules get openly flaunted how much easier is it for everyone else to become more "flexible" on how many, what sizes and what species of fish are retained, irrespective of those stupid pesky rules? Where do you draw the line exactly and, as a top rod, would you not wish to set a good example to encourage other less experienced or knowledgeable anglers to become better rather than lesser participants in this sport. No wonder there are so many flossers and snaggers around.....
Personally I have no idea why there is a bait ban, but I also do not feel the need to question it. I would hope the even if top rods thought a rule was stupid, they would still not flaunt the law and encourage, by example, others to do the same.
BRING IT. Really; for your third post? Would you prefer cookies or PB&J?
Aaron, I'm disappointed, I thought you to be a conscientious angler and the thinly veiled threat was particularly impressive.
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Knnn might be referring to this incident on the river today. People using bait and over limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfBggKjGRs
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Knnn might be referring to this incident on the river today. People using bait and over limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfBggKjGRs
Over limit eh, a perfect example of moral flexibility right there. Any idea if this video has gone to DFO?
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Richard ( Dick ) Cranium ( For brains )
Dick Head.
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Once again a moot point. By sending our underfunded, understaffed fisheries and conservation officers to write tickets on the cap is a huge waste of our limited resources to stop poaching that will actually harm wild populatjons of fish. The limit of coho in the cap could be 100 fish per person per day and as long as the hatchery got their brood stock it won't make a lick of difference in the next run size
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Personally I have no idea why there is a bait ban, but I also do not feel the need to question it. I would hope the even if top rods thought a rule was stupid, they would still not flaunt the law and encourage, by example, others to do the same.
I was told once by a very knowledgeable person that the roe ban was put in place to protect the summer steelhead. As to the use of roe, a few Capilano regulars use roe despite knowing full well there is a bait ban in effect.
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The summer steelhead are in the system from June to march. Good to know there's a bait ban for 3 of those months 🙄
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Once again a moot point. By sending our underfunded, understaffed fisheries and conservation officers to write tickets on the cap is a huge waste of our limited resources to stop poaching that will actually harm wild populatjons of fish.
I think that is a bit of a blinkered viewpoint. I'm sure if you asked DFO they would have a very different opinion. As for wasted effort, why; because the same guys would not poach anywhere else but the Cap and this will not act as a deterrent to these particular individuals, their friends or others?
Most of my fishing is on wilder rivers and I take the same approach to reporting all polluters and poachers as I do on the Cap. Have you not thought that if everyone else did the same and took a stronger and consistence stance against breaking or bending the rules, just may be there would be less poaching everywhere.
A poacher ain't going to report a poacher.
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DFO also allowed FN seine netting 25 of 30 days last October in the same year with the lowest IFS steelhead populations ever. Maybe not everyone agrees with DFO's priorities and decisions. I'm not blaming the enforcement officers. Im blaming the broken system and blind sheep following that system.
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Milo is the classic example of a fisherman who wasn't any good at fishing and could barely catch anything so they started fly fishing to justify not being able to catch fish. Then talks down bait fishing like he is above it.
LOL! You wish! I always make jokes about fishing with bait. Hence the wink and tongue smilies. And FWIW, I'm not above bait. I just don't like getting my hands and gear dirty with borax and dye - hence my switch to artificials. I fish salmon with gear (jigs, blades, spinners, wool, beads and corkies) as much as I do with the fly.
My participation in the salmon fishery has diminished considerably, but I am obviously still quite successful in getting excitable posters to rise to my presentation and take it hook, line and sinker. ;D
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The summer run steelhead at the Cap may not stand a chance with the natives weirs up so many months in summer. DFO should tell the natives to release any steelhead caught by the netting at the weirs. Anybody know if natives keep the summer run steelhead or release them past the weirs? But what about those fishing with the treble hooks at the reserve. Can DFO do something about that? The summer runs are so low in number they don't stand a chance against the treble hooks. That is as non-selective as can be when those trebles are being yanked across the river.
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My participation in the salmon fishery has diminished considerably, but I am obviously still quite successful in getting excitable posters to rise to my presentation and take it hook, line and sinker. ;D
You are undoubtedly the Masterbaiter ;)
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The summer run steelhead at the Cap may not stand a chance with the natives weirs up so many months in summer. DFO should tell the natives to release any steelhead caught by the netting at the weirs. Anybody know if natives keep the summer run steelhead or release them past the weirs? But what about those fishing with the treble hooks at the reserve. Can DFO do something about that? The summer runs are so low in number they don't stand a chance against the treble hooks. That is as non-selective as can be when those trebles are being yanked across the river.
TBH I would rather have them harvesting food/ceremonial/roadside sales fish there where it's actually sustainable thanks to the hatchery. Unlike the Fraser river wild chinook and sockeye genocide
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Knnn, you reopened this thread with a Clint Eastwood style threat, love Clint by the way, then you comment about someone's thinly veiled threat ? You basically told every person on this forum that if you see them fishing bait on the cap you will be in their face with a camera. That's threatening. You then go on to speak of moral flexibility and breaking and bending of rules. So it's safe to assume then that you never have or never will break any of the laws of this land ? Never sped, fudged your taxes,ran a stop sign ? I doubt it. While I agree if there's a bait ban then leave the bait at home you just sound like you need to come off your high horse.
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Why dont you guys go post up at some wild rivers where no ones around and the real poachers can do harm. Go pester snaggers at the popular spots if youre so concerned about the fish. Taking pictures and videos of people using roe in the canyon is just a weaselly rat move. There are far bigger fish to fry.
WE live in the social media world.
If your caught picking your nose or scratching your butt it could go viral
(and if ya did it at the same time there might even be an infection)
Just because the Cap is a hatch river doesn't mean there should be no rules.
A lot of folks Here complain about the bottom bouncing, flossing and snagging, particularly after a sockeye harvest opening and yet seem to feel the same harvest mentality is OK on certain rivers and not on others?
Where was that learned?
There are kudos and applause whenever someone posts about a poacher being caught or fined.
There are unscrupulous people in every segment of society as well as those who make mistakes.
Perhaps, However if you can catch and discourage before they become "The Bigger Fish"....
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The fact this is even a "discussion" that has some backing the poachers blows my mind. The mentality that its a "stupid rule" imo is what breeds poaching in the first place. How many lurkers/new anglers (and we all know how many new anglers come with a sockeye opening) do you think read this and then decide "ya they are right im gonna do this too"??I dont fish the cap but I can garuntee you that if any poachers come to my home river and do this I too will be "in thier face with a camera" and making the call to RAPP like a "rat". @knnn Thank you for your actions and call out of these types of offenders. To those of you that choose to make up reasons why they dont/wont follow the regs...I sincerely hope you get caught and your stripped of your gear and made an example of. Rest assured the ethical anglers on this and other boards WILL "rat" your beak A $ $ out. (And FYI that is a threat, one that I and others will follow through on)
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(And FYI that is a threat, one that I and others will follow through on)
....Milo! You got another one! :)
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....Milo! You got another one! :)
Might wanna re read Milos posts, from what I read he was on the side of using the proper avenues to change the regs if you feel they are outdated/stupid/etc. My post was directed at the beaks that simply choose to do as they see fit regardless of the regs and label those making a positive contribution to our sport as "weaselly rats"
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Knnn, you reopened this thread with a Clint Eastwood style threat, love Clint by the way, then you comment about someone's thinly veiled threat ? You basically told every person on this forum that if you see them fishing bait on the cap you will be in their face with a camera. That's threatening. You then go on to speak of moral flexibility and breaking and bending of rules. So it's safe to assume then that you never have or never will break any of the laws of this land ? Never sped, fudged your taxes,ran a stop sign ? I doubt it. While I agree if there's a bait ban then leave the bait at home you just sound like you need to come off your high horse.
In hindsight I agree with some of your comments. I was still upset at seeing such flagrant abuse and sometimes it is difficult to properly convey your thoughts and meaning through the computer screen. I presume you have seen the video and can understand why? I have no intent to "get in their face", just that I will document my observations and report it. Certainly that represents a treat with respect to the very low possibility of prosecution, however, it was not intended as a physical threat, which is what I perceived Aarons comment to be. Again, in hindsight, I may have been hasty, because I have meet Aaron before (I'm not sure he would recall) and I remember him to be a good and passionate angler. So he probably intended it to be a word of caution. To be honest I'm too chicken shyte to get up into anyone's face and be all confrontational.
I agree we all break rules, I try not to whenever possible, but the last thing I want is to sound like I'm preaching and sitting on my high horse, that's just the type of person I am.
I thought the Clint reference was apt and somewhat tongue in cheek, intended to provide a warning to others who may use roe illegally, or who are siting on the fence, that it may not be worth the risk. Since this incident kicked off, I now know that at least 2 other peopled called DFO that day about the same issue and therefore share my feelings. Unfortunately because DFO is so stretched, little or nothing ever happens about these calls. As a result there are zero consequences and the poachers do not ever find out they were reported and do not perceive there to be any risk associated with their actions. I wanted to make a point that this was not the case and there may be consequences for all our actions on the river.
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Might wanna re read Milos posts, from what I read he was on the side of using the proper avenues to change the regs if you feel they are outdated/stupid/etc. My post was directed at the beaks that simply choose to do as they see fit regardless of the regs and label those making a positive contribution to our sport as "weaselly rats"
Since you quoted part of my post and basically inferred I was a poacher you might wanna reread my post. I agreed with not using bait on a bait ban river. I just get a laugh out of guys who loudly preach about the law on the river when they probably break all sorts of other laws. Not you though obviously. %100 law abiding citizen. Too funny.
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In hindsight I agree with some of your comments. I was still upset at seeing such flagrant abuse and sometimes it is difficult to properly convey your thoughts and meaning through the computer screen. I presume you have seen the video and can understand why? I have no intent to "get in their face", just that I will document my observations and report it. Certainly that represents a treat with respect to the very low possibility of prosecution, however, it was not intended as a physical threat, which is what I perceived Aarons comment to be. Again, in hindsight, I may have been hasty, because I have meet Aaron before (I'm not sure he would recall) and I remember him to be a good and passionate angler. So he probably intended it to be a word of caution. To be honest I'm too chicken shyte to get up into anyone's face and be all confrontational.
No worries. We all bend some laws sometimes was my only point. Yes I saw the video and would definitely have given a polite reminder of the regs.
I agree we all break rules, I try not to whenever possible, but the last thing I want is to sound like I'm preaching and sitting on my high horse, that's just the type of person I am.
I thought the Clint reference was apt and somewhat tongue in cheek, intended to provide a warning to others who may use roe illegally, or who are siting on the fence, that it may not be worth the risk. Since this incident kicked off, I now know that at least 2 other peopled called DFO that day about the same issue and therefore share my feelings. Unfortunately because DFO is so stretched, little or nothing ever happens about these calls. As a result there are zero consequences and the poachers do ever find out they were reported and do not perceive there to be any risk associated with their actions. I wanted to make a point that this was not the case and there may be consequences for all our actions on the river.
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No worries Knnn. I was simply pointing out that we all bend or break some laws sometimes. Saw the video and yes I would most likely politely point out the regs to those fellas if I was there.
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Just curious where did it took place. Highway bridge ?
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So let me get this straight..... your real goal here was to protect the guys who will take pics/video and/confront violators from possible physical altercations? My bad I guess the part where you indicated we should go report on wilder rivers and leave the Cap poachers I mean "stupid rule" breakers go about thier business really threw me off from your intended message. So thanks for the concern with our well being.. ::)
My comment regarding that mentallity breeds poaching was not intended to be litteral, as I pointed out in the following sentence there are lots of lurkers and new anglers on this forum and there are lots of new impressionable anglers on the river that see a guy decked out in simms head to toe with a sage and a milner using roe on during a bait ban and think thats how its done and the only way to target salmon successfully.Just like we see anglers that get introduced to salmon fishing via the sockeye flossery then move to smaller tribs and use the same methods.
Do I agree with all the regs all the time? No I dont, do I feel like I have the right to pick and choose which ones I will follow? Again no, I dont, regardless of weather or not I agree with it or not.
The point is where does it stop? Its ok on hatchery rivers cause thats the purpose? Will every angler then feel that way and restrict thier reg bending ways to rivers with hatcheries? Do you use bait on the Cap or any other bait ban river? I dont fault anyone for feeling like some of the regs are stupid/bias/outdated etc etc. Its when they take it upon themselves to determine which they follow at which times, on which rivers, for which species, that I take issue with.
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Just gonna put this out there, wild summer steelhead. Makes you wonder what the actual summer steelhead run size on the cap really is.
(https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn-SmjCgXuG/?taken-by=moni_ca_voisin)
(https://imgur.com/a/JG3tZQ6)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn-SmjCgXuG/?taken-by=moni_ca_voisin
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmuwx4jgc5T/?taken-by=moni_ca_voisin
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LOL! You wish! I always make jokes about fishing with bait. Hence the wink and tongue smilies. And FWIW, I'm not above bait. I just don't like getting my hands and gear dirty with borax and dye - hence my switch to artificials. I fish salmon with gear (jigs, blades, spinners, wool, beads and corkies) as much as I do with the fly.
My participation in the salmon fishery has diminished considerably, but I am obviously still quite successful in getting excitable posters to rise to my presentation and take it hook, line and sinker. ;D
If your jokes get lost in translation from your mother tongue maybe you should stick to just simple English (without jokes). Razumes?
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And a big thumbs up to the fellow with a nice coho at capilano rd and RTE 1 to hwy set of lights east side of the bridge. He was walking in his waders on the sidewalk! A real fisherman lol. Cheers.
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Razumes?
Razumem moj kurac! ;D
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Ok I'll bite... my first post.
Those of you that a re defending the bait ban because it's the law I will applaud. Without the laws there would be no fish. But I have to ask.... how many of you have been at cable pool when the water is high in the fall? Have you seen all the people with the orange and green wool, the 8 foot leaders, the RIP at the end of every cast, the joy on their face when they bring in a black spring jack by the tail? Hey, they caught a fish.
Given a choice those same people would be angling with roe and getting fish to bite, which is what happens at cable pool during the rest of the year when there is no bait ban. But they can't. Not legally. Not without facing a social media back lash.
Ahh the elusive Cap summer steelhead.... in a dozen falls fishing the Cap I have caught only a single steel, and it was on a spinner, and was bleeding like a stuck pig when I released it. I felt bad cause it coulda been the only one that made it past the weir that year. Seriously, I heard that one year the hatchery got only a single summer run, which they released...
But back to the subject at hand. 7/10 people (or so) that catch fish on the Cap in the fall do so by (legal) flossing and outright snagging. Cable, Doctors pool, and Kieth Road are so much of a disgrace that I can't even bring myself to go there during the bait ban. For those of you that only fish Vedder, think Kieth Wilson and Tamahi. And some of them are proud to claim that they have been fishing that way for 30 years (so stfu they say). I asked one guy what colour wool he was using when he caught his spring at dog leg, and he was so embarrassed that he just looked the other way. Sad. Of the remaining 30% that catch fish, I estimate that 10% use lures and 20% use roe.
Sure, there are other pools and I do well enough on spinners not to care.
The Squamish river is bait ban all year. It's not a dammed river, with only a small hatchery for it's size. In this river a bait ban may indeed have a sizable effect. I respect that.
It may be "too easy" to catch fish using roe in the Cap in the fall, but unless you really want sport fishermen to copy the FN style of harvesting I suggest to both DFO and the Squamish band that there should be no bait ban in place on this 100% hatchery river.
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Sometimes when we see something not right, instead of video taping people with the intent to shame them to rant our feeling (and you are lucky they didn't forcefully confront you to take away your camera or push you into the river, lol), it may be more effective to simply politely approach the person to tell him if he is aware of the regs not to do so. You don't imply a threat and so it is not confrontational and no one needs to be mad at you to risk a fight. The other day I was at the Cap and saw a young guy keeping his fish alive in a stringer (mind you he was using wool not roe, lol), I went up to him and politely asked him if he is aware that it is illegal and inhuman to do so. He was probably from some cultural background where people think it is the way to keep their catch as fresh as possible. But once he realized that, he instantly went ahead to bonk his fish. So something positive and educational was achieved without confrontation or threat. I told him CO can be in plain cloth so better not try break the law next time and he was receptive to that. So may be there is better approach to accomplish what we want to convey across than issuing threat or even confrontation at the river.
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Steelhawk, you are the voice of reason and civility. 👍
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Ahh the elusive Cap summer steelhead.... in a dozen falls fishing the Cap I have caught only a single steel, and it was on a spinner, and was bleeding like a stuck pig when I released it. I felt bad cause it coulda been the only one that made it past the weir that year. Seriously, I heard that one year the hatchery got only a single summer run, which they released...
FYI, I was fishing beside an elder asian fellow yesterday near Hwy 1 overpass, and he caught a released 2 summer run steelhead. They were both silver bullet and beautiful. Told him he was very lucky as some people don't even catch 2 steelhead in a whole season, let alone 2 in one outing.
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Two steelhead is a very good day. It's nice to hear that there are a few in there. But did he catch them on bait? The point I was trying to make is that steelhead will take a variety of presentations including flies and lures. Any hook can puncture an artery or rip the esophagus and the steelhead that do make it past the weir will probably be caught at least a couple of times even before they reach the RIPers at cable pool.
The only answer that makes sense in the face of all the fishing pressure this river faces is to increase the numbers of summer steelhead that the hatchery raises. In the end the bait ban wont save them.
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Razumem moj kurac! ;D
Ah...if you only had one.
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FYI, I was fishing beside an elder asian fellow yesterday near Hwy 1 overpass, and he caught a released 2 summer run steelhead. They were both silver bullet and beautiful. Told him he was very lucky as some people don't even catch 2 steelhead in a whole season, let alone 2 in one outing.
Nice, 2 in a day .... gotta like that.
A number of weeks back at an undisclosed spot on the Cap I saw at least 2 - 3 dozen Steelhead ... let that sink in...yes 2-3 dozen! I personally counted 20 or so individuals and noticed quite a few others coming and going. I had my gear with me but I did not target them. It was good to see. Then again last Wed I was fly fishing near the Hwy 1 overpass and a big steely sauntered up to me... literally 3-4 feet in front of me. It sat there for about 5-6 minutes then moved on. Ive never seen so many up close before in any LM river. Lets hope this bodes well for the future.
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Oh... just so ya know ... considering where I saw the group I am sure they have made it past Cable by now ... just putting it out there. I hope I don't cause an avalanche of people hoping to get into one. There are plenty of Springs and Coho in the river right now to keep ya's happy.
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Ah...if you only had one.
Your response tells me that your knowledge of Serbian language is rather poor. Google Translate will only give you a literal translation, not the true meaning of a colloquial phrase, especially when you use Google to translate from a synthetic to an analytic language or vice-versa.
What I wrote means "I don't understand". :P
It also reveals that you have no sense of humour and inadequate language skills to enter into linguistic and other debates with me, so I wont be replying to your inane comments anymore.
Please find another victim to exercise your outdated and veiled Anglo-Saxon chauvinism. In me, you picked the wrong Slav because I was born in London, UK, and I was schooled in Queen's English. I am a Certified Translator for Serbian and Croatian so no, nothing was lost in translation, Dennis, it was lost in your head.
Oh, man, sometimes I wish I had a brain like yours to get some rest. ::)
Back to regular programming and my apologies for the digression...
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makes me wonder exactly how lifting the bait ban on the Cap make all those rippers, flossers and snaggers magically disappear? The Vedder never had a bait ban and has always been loaded with same during fall salmon season. A lot of those types simply won't pay the ridiculous $ to buy roe
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Roe is getting up there in price. But find a supplier buy enough for a season cure it freeze it. Couple 100 bucks tops isnt very much money if river fishing. Go buy a boat and see how far 200 bucks goes. Not far at all.
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Bait ban includes the use of scent.
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makes me wonder exactly how lifting the bait ban on the Cap make all those rippers, flossers and snaggers magically disappear? The Vedder never had a bait ban and has always been loaded with same during fall salmon season. A lot of those types simply won't pay the ridiculous $ to buy roe
Exactly... but hey it's only cause of the bait ban on the Cap lol damn those "stupid" regs ::)