Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on May 18, 2018, 11:28:20 AM
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Fraser River SportFishing Alliance Public Meeting
7:00pm, Wednesday May 30th, 2018 (door opens at 6:30pm)
Location: Evergreen Hall, 9291 Corbould Street Chilliwack
FB event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/2530572923834863/
The Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance invites the public to share the concerns regarding the state of our precious fisheries. Our valued Canadian heritage and the future is in critical danger and could be lost forever.
It is time to act now, to save the tremendous social, cultural and economic values of our fisheries by working together in prioritizing the steps needed to save our fish and fishing opportunities for all British Columbians.
We look forward to see you there.
FRSA Board
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I really wish I could say something positive about this.....
But this horse has been dead for years......why do we still beat it?
When they close the ENTIRE skeena watershed to recreational salmon fishing in an area of less than 50k people.....what kind of pipe dream says we'll ever have any sort of reliable yearly fishery on the Fraser in an area of over 2 million people? The natives have claimed the scraps....are we looking for the scraps of the scraps.....is there even such thing as scraps of scraps?
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Robert_G I couldent of said it any better.
Like Rod said last Summer when pinks were closed go fish a lake and give up on fishing the Fraser River.
"The tune hasn't changed one bit. My point is still the same, expect to see less and less recreational fishing opportunities in the Lower Mainland in the years to come so people need to start exploring other opportunities in this province. We are losing opportunities due to stock decline, but for the most part the management approach has changed and recreational fishing sector is not in the managers' best interest."
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lol... So your choice is to put your hands up and forget about it? That's ok, but don't discourage others who choose to do otherwise.
Guys like Chris Gadsden, Rod Clapton, Fred Helmer, etc (the list goes on, too many to list out, but you know who you are...) are the ones who keep coming up with ideas and suggestions on how we can improve the state of our fisheries and relationship with other user groups. You may not agree with all of their views and approaches, their ideas may have failed to provide more fishing opportunities, but they are still doing it and you must have respect for that. Maybe they're all taking the wrong approaches because there are no fresh ideas, but the lack of involvement by those in the 20 to 30 year old group is not helping. Everyone wants to point fingers at others and complains about how poorly the fisheries are being managed, yet no one wants to be proactive about creating opportunities and saving resources.
This public meeting is not about telling you what this organization wants to do. it is more about inviting you, the user, so you have the opportunities to provide your thoughts and fresh ideas. Maybe it won't change a thing, but maybe it will. You won't know unless you show up.
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With all due respect Rod and I applaud the people who fight for us. But I too IMO believe our concerns fall on deaf ears. it is a sad state of affairs when the sports sector whom brings in millions of dollars to our economy each yr continually gets the short end of the stick.
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I hope there is a good turn-out of people.
Its all we really have and probably wont change a whole lot but you never know.
If nobody says anything for us sporties then there will be a dam on the Fraser before you know it.
I have pretty much given up on fishing the Fraser for Salmon but its not only the Fraser that needs our support.
Lets try and do our best to attend this meeting and show that we do care and we do want our slice of the pie too.
If anyone is going from maple Ridge area and wants a co-pilot i could sure use a ride .
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Robert_G I couldent of said it any better.
Like Rod said last Summer when pinks were closed go fish a lake and give up on fishing the Fraser River.
"The tune hasn't changed one bit. My point is still the same, expect to see less and less recreational fishing opportunities in the Lower Mainland in the years to come so people need to start exploring other opportunities in this province. We are losing opportunities due to stock decline, but for the most part the management approach has changed and recreational fishing sector is not in the managers' best interest."
You need to stop commenting when you don’t know anything about the fishery being discussed. You do it on multiple boards. Give it up.
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But I too IMO believe our concerns fall on deaf ears.
So what now, everyone sits back and does nothing? lol... Recreational anglers in BC are the most unorganized user group I've worked in. Everyone either wants to do their own thing, or doesn't want to be involved in anything yet chooses to complain.
Keep pointing out what can be done and what is being done is not how you'd do it on the forum is great for my website traffic stats, but it does nothing to the community. Show up on May 30th if you think you have some fresh ideas to contribute. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something, maybe you can actually help.
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It's so much easier to complain than to participate.
Perhaps...
And this is just an idea...
But maybe If everyone who wanted a fishing licence had to attend a meeting of the like to get one?
Throw a competency test in there.
This would limit the number of anglers, free up more fishable areas, fines for those without a licence would surely provide the extra funds for additional CO and DFO officers truly needed.
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It's so much easier to complain than to participate.
Perhaps...
And this is just an idea...
But maybe If everyone who wanted a fishing licence had to attend a meeting of the like to get one?
Throw a competency test in there.
This would limit the number of anglers, free up more fishable areas, fines for those without a licence would surely provide the extra funds for additional CO and DFO officers truly needed.
::)
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At least this shows the managers of the resources that there is still keen interest from the sportfishing community (or at least some subset of it), and that there is significant economic and community benefit in having accessible fisheries.
Sportfishers may be the lowest on the totem pole but they are still stakeholders that should have some input and be heard.
If the DFO issued closures or reduced allocations and no one ever said a word, then what would they reasonably conclude? Probably that it wasnt a popular fishery or did not impact too many people, nobody cared, and their decision was the right one. I think groups like this keep the interests of sportfishers in the mind of the managers.
Some of the past emails and correspondences with the DFO posted on this site seem to show that they do listen and at least make an effort to respond. They may not make decisions that please the community, but it would seem naive to hope they would proactively keep the interests of sportfishers in mind without some sort of advocacy.
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seem to show that they do listen and at least make an effort to respond. They may not make decisions that please the community,
Strange....some people just never learn the art of recgonizing lip service when it is right in front of them.
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It's so much easier to complain than to participate.
Perhaps...
And this is just an idea...
But maybe If everyone who wanted a fishing licence had to attend a meeting of the like to get one?
Throw a competency test in there.
This would limit the number of anglers, free up more fishable areas, fines for those without a licence would surely provide the extra funds for additional CO and DFO officers truly needed.
This is a perfect post.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, it addresses some problem that is not explained and finishes up with a solution that borders on the absurd with hints of hallucinogenic drug use.
Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot.
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Here is some background on the FRSA I filmed a while ago for those that may not seen it. https://youtu.be/j_lhp3ogN0A
As Rod said in the first post on this thread we need more younger people to get involved as a number of us older ones do not have the energy anymore, I know I donot at nearly 75.
At least try to attend the meeting and listen and hopefully give your support, they are working for your future fishing opportunities.
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While I respect the work that they do, I was extremely unimpressed at the "protest fishery" they staged. It was childish and in poor taste.
As a 27 year old, I fall into the 20-30 category that was mentioned above as being "needed". However, I cannot align myself with an organization with poor judgement.
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While I respect the work that they do, I was extremely unimpressed at the "protest fishery" they staged. It was childish and in poor taste.
As a 27 year old, I fall into the 20-30 category that was mentioned above as being "needed". However, I cannot align myself with an organization with poor judgement.
Thanks for your thoughts but what would you suggest should be done?
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To make my position clear, I am concerned with the DFO's mismanagement of salmon and steelhead stocks, and I believe they are a major factor in the problems we face today. However...
We should be providing continued pressure via legal means (letters, meeting with MPs, MLAs, media attention, protests that don't break laws, etc.). My concern was the message it was sending to "occasional" anglers, and those who don't follow fishing news too often. The protest fishery sent a message to BC anglers saying that if you don't like the law, you don't have to follow it. Even worse, it was sanctioned and lead in part by Fred's Tackle. Fred's regularly deals with occasional anglers all the time, and was encouraging everyone to participate. To me, that is a poor use of a position of influence. Anglers who care about fish stocks, regulation, and laws should do everything in their power to promote compliance, not defiance.
Rules can be changed without breaking them. Remember that we're not fighting for civil rights, or women's suffrage here (ie, things worth breaking laws over). We're fighting for recreational fishing opportunities-hardly something worth staging a public show of defiance over.
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Technically no rules were broken. Just a bunch of fisherman using single barbless hooks not retaining any fish.
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To make my position clear, I am concerned with the DFO's mismanagement of salmon and steelhead stocks, and I believe they are a major factor in the problems we face today. However...
We should be providing continued pressure via legal means (letters, meeting with MPs, MLAs, media attention, protests that don't break laws, etc.). My concern was the message it was sending to "occasional" anglers, and those who don't follow fishing news too often. The protest fishery sent a message to BC anglers saying that if you don't like the law, you don't have to follow it. Even worse, it was sanctioned and lead in part by Fred's Tackle. Fred's regularly deals with occasional anglers all the time, and was encouraging everyone to participate. To me, that is a poor use of a position of influence. Anglers who care about fish stocks, regulation, and laws should do everything in their power to promote compliance, not defiance.
Rules can be changed without breaking them. Remember that we're not fighting for civil rights, or women's suffrage here (ie, things worth breaking laws over). We're fighting for recreational fishing opportunities-hardly something worth staging a public show of defiance over.
I hope you will be able to attend the meeting and share your thoughts with those in attendance. Maybe you can gather other people together and pursue what you suggest should be done. I know we need people with a lot of good ideas and energy that I donot have any more being a couple of months away from 75..
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It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic,
Actually it does.
It addresses the keyboard apathy so many have
and your post is even less on topic.
However if you're practicing for your radio licence that was good so Foxtrot Unicorn Tango to you as well.
it addresses some problem that is not explained and finishes up with a solution that borders on the absurd with hints of hallucinogenic drug use.
Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot.
Perhaps I should have prefaced my words with the word SARCASM
Hotel alpha November delta ;)
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Just out. https://www.theprogress.com/news/town-hall-meeting-in-chilliwack-a-call-to-action-for-fraser-river-sport-fishers/
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Please don't forget that the town hall meeting is happening tonight. Doors open at 6:30pm. I see lots of opinions being provided in a couple other threads so it'll be great to see the same participants attending so you can voice those concerns tonight.
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So what is the big plan to get us out salmon fishing now that the meeting is done?
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So what is the big plan to get us out salmon fishing now that the meeting is done?
If you cared you should've went you dont get to have your cake and eat it.
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If you cared you should've went you dont get to have your cake and eat it.
That is not really fair. I certainly care but I already had a meeting with another organization that I was committed to before I heard about this meeting. Others I know had to work or don't get home until after 6 and then making a drive to Chilliwack by 7 is not practical.
I would truly like to know where I can find what was discussed or any ideas that were put forward. Will the information be available here or on the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance Facebook page?
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That is not really fair. I certainly care but I already had a meeting with another organization that I was committed to before I heard about this meeting. Others I know had to work or don't get home until after 6 and then making a drive to Chilliwack by 7 is not practical.
I would truly like to know where I can find what was discussed or any ideas that were put forward. Will the information be available here or on the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance Facebook page?
That's right Tylsie, not everyone could have made it that evening as we all have family and work obligations. I will be publishing the video of the powerpoint presentation from that night which summarizes what the FRSA hopes to accomplish in the long run. The video should be available in the next couple of days.
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That's right Tylsie, not everyone could have made it that evening as we all have family and work obligations. I will be publishing the video of the powerpoint presentation from that night which summarizes what the FRSA hopes to accomplish in the long run. The video should be available in the next couple of days.
My comment was aimed at Robert who earlier on this thread was discouraging people by saying nothing ever comes out of these meetings that get sports fishermen more opportunity.
Not at the people that wanted to go but could not make it.
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My comment was aimed at Robert who earlier on this thread was discouraging people by saying nothing ever comes out of these meetings that get sports fishermen more opportunity.
Not at the people that wanted to go but could not make it.
I wasn't replying to you.
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discouraging people by saying nothing ever comes out of these meetings that get sports fishermen more opportunity.
What I was saying are actual facts. I've been watching this sportsfishing alliance since the 90s when it began. I even participated in it for the first few years...and nothing from it has ever benefited us...at least nothing worth mentioning.....and in the last 10 years??? Absolutely 0 has happened that befefits us. All we get is lip service....I'm just thankful I stopped wasting my time soon after it began....Its painful to see people wasting their time on something that is never going to happen. It's like watching a dog jumping at a treat hanging from a rope that is 3 inches higher than its maximum jumping ability.
You may ask....why do I post in these threads then? The answer is simple...Fraser river fishing used to be a huge part of my life(one of my greatest pleasures...actually)....something that got me excited all the time....and now its gone. So when I see these guys with their faint hope....it keeps bringing back the pain of what is lost and what I KNOW WILL remain lost to me forever. It's like someone trying to dig up my grandfathers grave twice a year and giving him CPR....Its dead....and its not coming back to life...no matter how much CPR you give it.
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Sorry I couldn't make the meeting. Was to busy fishing catching trouts up country. Soon the only fishery we will have left. Did the meeting change anything?
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That is not really fair. I certainly care but I already had a meeting with another organization that I was committed to before I heard about this meeting. Others I know had to work or don't get home until after 6 and then making a drive to Chilliwack by 7 is not practical.
I would truly like to know where I can find what was discussed or any ideas that were put forward. Will the information be available here or on the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance Facebook page?
As Rodney said he will put up his video of the meeting as will I after Rodney has his up for a few days as his will be a lot clearer than on my old camera. I will post all 4 videos I filmed that includes the Question and Answer session.
I have some pictures up now on the Fraser Valley Salmon FB page.
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The SFAB has asked for a mark selected fishery for chinook.
issue is DFO has no indication of increasing the SEP budget, so there for no addiction funds to clip the hatchery chinooks being produced.
Problem is we have a lot of bad headwinds
They want to have a 4 week closure window to protect IFS steelhead. There is a closure window to protect interior coho. closure window to protect early stuart sockeye, There are multiple chinook stocks on the list to be reviewed for SARA, SRKW that eat chinook and their population is shrinking issue ect..
There is so many at risk stocks now that migrate up the fraser.
were down to one good return of sockeye every 4 years and the prefered method of catching sockeye is bottom bouncing. Not exactly a selective method
The FN population is increasing and so is their need to spread nets everywhere on the fraser. Their right to FSC fisheries basically comes before conservation because we still do not have a wild salmon policy.
We also not have almost twice the population in the lower mainland then when some of these closures went into effect.
Like robert some of my best memories are fishing on the Fraser River but all they are is memories now because opportunities have only shrunk not increased.
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As Rodney said he will put up his video of the meeting as will I after Rodney has his up for a few days as his will be a lot clearer than on my old camera. I will post all 4 videos I filmed that includes the Question and Answer session.
I have some pictures up now on the Fraser Valley Salmon FB page.
Thank you Chris. I apologize. I missed Rodney's post about the videos. Looking forward to them.
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What I was saying are actual facts. I've been watching this sportsfishing alliance since the 90s when it began. I even participated in it for the first few years...and nothing from it has ever benefited us...at least nothing worth mentioning.....and in the last 10 years??? Absolutely 0 has happened that befefits us. All we get is lip service....I'm just thankful I stopped wasting my time soon after it began....Its painful to see people wasting their time on something that is never going to happen. It's like watching a dog jumping at a treat hanging from a rope that is 3 inches higher than its maximum jumping ability.
You may ask....why do I post in these threads then? The answer is simple...Fraser river fishing used to be a huge part of my life(one of my greatest pleasures...actually)....something that got me excited all the time....and now its gone. So when I see these guys with their faint hope....it keeps bringing back the pain of what is lost and what I KNOW WILL remain lost to me forever. It's like someone trying to dig up my grandfathers grave twice a year and giving him CPR....Its dead....and its not coming back to life...no matter how much CPR you give it.
For someone that doesn't care about what others are trying to do to make a difference ( I will admit these differences are probably not even noticeable) you sure have a lot to say. Do not ask the question if you are not willing to actual hear what was discussed by those who cared enough to attend. What we heard was probably not very positive, but it was at least refreshing to see so many who actually cared, and not those that at one time cared.
Take your good old days and throw them to the curb, things will never be the same as they were before. CPR has proven to assist in life why not allow those who are willing to have their day instead of pulling the plug on them as well?
Like you, many grew up on the Fraser and share the passion you once had but this is not about you so don't spread your negative opinions on others.
My kids will never see the Fraser the way I saw it growing up, but I am happy to share what it does offer whenever possible. Last year that only represented a few days on the bar, with very little success. Did this make their experience something other than a great time enjoying what it was? These small opportunities are probably only possible because of those on boards such as the Fraser river Sport Fishing alliance and I can't help but be thankful for that opportunity of holding hope that one day my kids kids will be able to offer some sort of experience on the Fraser.
Will be a cold day when every opportunity is lost and we can truly say it is dead.
Anyways no disrespect to you or your opinion of death of the Fraser river, but our opinions of death are far different.
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Here is the video of the presentation which Fred Helmer and Rod Clapton presented during the FRSA town hall meeting last week in Chilliwack. This presentation should provide you enough background information on the organization and the ten mandates which the group aims to work on. It is a lengthy one, but please take the time to watch it so you have a better understanding on what the challenges and solutions are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO_1D--ZCGQ
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Any question or feedback on the presentation beside "when can we get back on the river?"
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Still discussing about leader length lol... If only you understand why the river really is closed.
There are lots of excellent fisheries around this province beside the Fraser to enjoy in the summer. My suggestion to all is to take advantage of those.
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No offence, but you need to get a life if you’re saving my posts to quote later on.
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No offence, but you need to get a life if you’re saving my posts to quote later on.
NO offence but a year ago when the river was closed and you shut me and others down who wanted to fish for pinks, chinook ect and were pissed about it. You should of told us to just to join groups like FRSA promoted the meetings and tell us, used your platform to rally support and tell how we could get involved instead of blowing us all off and tell us to give up with the fraser.
Your a very public figure and what you say and encourage people to do matters.
I didn't save the quote, two seconds with google leader lengths/FWR and it was one of the first things that came up.
Now you're promoting a video about where leader length is an important subject that comes up and telling people to fight for the opportunities to fish the fraser.
https://youtu.be/lO_1D--ZCGQ?t=1430
We are all using your platform because we like you and the content that provide.
now you're surprised that people pay attention to stuff you say?
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People? The response was specifically for you. Stop spending so much time here trolling for responses like you’ve been doing with everyone. You’re way off base on whatever you’re trying to say in your last post about me, and I don’t have time to address them.
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Any question or feedback on the presentation beside "when can we get back on the river?"
The resource is obviously deminishing , but we still all want to fish which is also obvious from this presentation , and I give my huge thank you for the people who have time and courage to fight for it all...
My concern is , and a question ?
Now that the fish are not there anymore , what do we do ,to get them back to where they were ,once this glory time was present , everyone talks about ?
I haven’t attended the meeting , and I only ask this based on what I have seen in the video , that’s from the meeting , it seems to me , focus is , how do we fish for what’s left ...???
Maybe I’m wrong in my conclusion .
I hope I make sence.
????????
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The resource is obviously deminishing , but we still all want to fish which is also obvious from this presentation , and I give my huge thank you for the people who have time and courage to fight for it all...
My concern is , and a question ?
Now that the fish are not there anymore , what do we do ,to get them back to where they were ,once this glory time was present , everyone talks about ?
I haven’t attended the meeting , and I only ask this based on what I have seen in the video , that’s from the meeting , it seems to me , focus is , how do we fish for what’s left ...???
Maybe I’m wrong in my conclusion .
I hope I make sence.
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I think that's the incorrect perception of what the FRSA hopes to accomplish. I'm not a director of the alliance, nor do I plan to be, but after many conversations with Fred and Rod, the group does have my support.
As Rod Clapton stated in the presentation, conservation has to be the number one priority. The group also wants to have better dialogues with First Nations at round table meetings where both can address their concerns and needs. Together, both groups can look at some of the factors which may be accelerating the decline of the Fraser River salmon stocks (eg. predations, lack of hatchery production, open pen salmon farms, etc) and actually tackle them instead of fighting among each other. This is a long term process. Anyone who believes by joining this group they'll be back on the Fraser fishing throughout the summer right away like ten years ago is not being realistic. As both Rod and Fred mentioned, they want to fish, but they are more interested in working to make sure there will actually be fish for their grandchildren.
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After addressing conservation, I think the real intent of the group is that there has to be a fair treatment to the recreational sector by reallocating the priority given the economic value of this sector. As it is, we get the least consideration and DFO routinely shut down the sporties for whatever reason. Besides shutting the chinoo fishing because of sockeyes, the shutting down of Fraser for the pinks and not allowing even c/r with lures or flies are just some of the most ridiculous restrictions. It is as if DFO don't want us to risk a single fish survival, and yet they turn around to allow netting for the lowly chum risking decimating the precious Thompson steelhead. What conservation concern? Go figure! If we can somehow make these head honchos and elected politicians accountable, that will a good way to change this type of irresponsible and heartless behaviour of DFO.
The round table with the natives may not change the fact that FN will get the first crack, but that what the natives themselves are going to do with all the illegal nets all over the Fraser besides the allowed opening and allocation for FSC quota. I think I remember Chris once did a count on helicopter ride that there were approx 700 nets they counted on that ride. No fish can zip zag 700 nets to get to spawning grounds. The FN groups have to understand that sporties won't decimate the fish with a single barbless hook during the few opening days. It is the uncontrolled netting day and night that will wipe out the stock. If they don't smarten up, there won't be fish left for their future generations too.
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That video quality was very good. I like how the slide deck was shown with each talking point.
At ~24 minute mark is mentioned upcoming changes to the fisheries act that may allow for in-season changes to gear restrictions (ie shorter leaders). What sort of changes are being referred to here?
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Thanks for making and posting the video Rod. Overall I liked the presentation but I didn't think there was much new.
Many things seem to have been left out. Conservation was mentioned as the first priority but given short shrift. What do they mean by conservation? Predictably (hee hee) I would say conservation does not mean more hatchery enhancement or a seal/sea lion cull. To me it means putting more wild adult fish on spawning redds in suitable habitat.
Rod and Fred went on at length about the heritage of the fishery. Frankly I don't think DFO is to blame for what is happening to that. Someone asked about the glory time they referred to. Well my experience goes back to the mid-60s. I tried to look for some 'numbers' from back then but farthest back I could find was 1986.
Since 1986 the population of the Lower Mainland/ Fraser Valley has doubled. It must have tripled since the 1960s. Many many more people are fishing. Access is easier and methods that require little skill and are effective are dominating the fishery.
Before 1986 we could only fish for and retain chinook and coho in non-tidal water. No one knew what flossing was. Salmon as a food is in bigger demand - people eat more and want more yet. The farmed variety is perceived as a poor replacement for it. We fish more intently and put more pressure on a dwindling resource. Few people used boats or fished from them in the river from Chilliwack & upstream before '86. Jet boats that can go almost anywhere at 70kph were rare. Guides weren't that common. The Sparrow case was years from the Supreme Court. There was no economic opportunity fisheries for FNs.When the river was closed for 'conservation' it closed for everyone... except sport anglers. Climate change was only talked about in Universities. Now we commonly have a river that in summer is too warm for a cold water fish. I am sure there is more.
Can we afford a heritage fishery based on that time? I'd also say overall Canadian heritage fishery values are in good shape across most of the country. As has been said in face of the situation and it's attendant closures, it may be time for some to shift their focus elsewhere. many of our inland fisheries are in good shape. Great kokanee fisheries with fish that can approach ocean sizes are being created by Provincial stocking programs.
I am glad the FRSA recognizes they have to stop fighting battles long since lost. FN rights won't go away but will likely expand. Likewise I am glad they are moving away from the "ethics" issue. Selective tackle regulations make sense from a conservation perspective. Even when there is no sockeye retention, bars are often lined with flossers targeting chinook.
Overall I think they are at least trying to get the conversation going in the right direction. Without a partnership among the major users groups, FNs, commercial plus salt water and fresh water anglers, it will go no where.