Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: arimaBOATER on February 17, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
-
Total ban on fishing the BC coast & streams/rivers across the board. Commercial native & sport for 4 yrs.
Open to fishing the 5th year.
Lakes ok to fish.
Import fish during that time/ or BC fish farm ( though do not like them )
The numbers will have to increase DRAMATICALLY !!!
Would everyone be on board ?
-
Hardly worth discussing such an extreme hypothetical ::)
-
Then what? Are you going to do anything about predation (ie. seals, sea lions, birds)? Are you going to do anything about water quality? Are you going to do anything about habitat? What happens when the only real conservationists aren't allowed any opportunities at all? And the newer anglers...?
Wow. Let's focus on the real issues....
-
No offence, but please delete this thread. It's only going to inflame polarizing sentiments that people have about commercial, sporties and native fishing, and to what end. It's going to end up in a shouting match and no good will come from that. If history has taught me anything, is that discussing charged topics like this on the web is the worst possible venue to do so.
-
No offence, but please delete this thread. It's only going to inflame polarizing sentiments that people have about commercial, sporties and native fishing, and to what end. It's going to end up in a shouting match and no good will come from that. If history has taught me anything, is that discussing charged topics like this on the web is the worst possible venue to do so.
Agreed.
-
Total ban on fishing the BC coast & streams/rivers across the board. Commercial native & sport for 4 yrs.
Open to fishing the 5th year.
Lakes ok to fish.
Import fish during that time/ or BC fish farm ( though do not like them )
The numbers will have to increase DRAMATICALLY !!!
Would everyone be on board ?
As usual, you're off your meds again when on the keyboard. Typical jibblish that makes absolutely no sense.
-
The numbers will have to increase DRAMATICALLY !!!
would they? While the take by various sectors is significant, other factors can have a bigger influence.
Why close streams where fish are doing well? Why close streams that have no runs of salmon or steelhead?
This is an old but still half baked notion that's been around for a couple of generations
-
Why delete the thread? It may come to this one day the way its headed. Total closures. But hey good luck. To many groups and to much money involved. Ya keep it open so we can cast a line and catch nothing.
-
It's a warm thought.
You would only catch one spawn cycle, two for some. You would likely need maintain this closure for two full Chinook cycles to make a difference. So many other factors but that would be a good push if it were even possible with everyone complying and environmental conditions improved.
Who would ever fund enforcement for such a proposal?
As previously said, there is just too much money involved and this will never happen.
We're too late - extinction is imminent. :'(
If groups could make money at making small gains in fish stocks then we'll be able to offset the extinction for a few years. Sadly like all the trees on the Moon, the salmon will soon gone.
-
Why delete the thread?
See above rationale. Discussing the same topics over and over and hoping for a different outcome isn't being optimistic, its ignorant.
-
Ok. Well dont look at the thread then. I talked about how much the canucks suck last week. Is it okay if I talk about how they suck this week? Dont see that changing soon. Something needs to be done soon or no more fish.
-
I read a good peace about closing it every 3 yeas. That way it would be spread across all brood years
-
Will only work in a utopian society....
-
It was a simple question. I would absolutely be on board if I knew my abstinence from fishing would also mean removing all of the commercial fleets as well. I’m not so greedy that I can’t give it a 4+ year break, just to see what would happen, for a chance at preserving fish for the future generations, or at least so we would know what kind of impact fishing is or isn’t having on overall numbers. I mean, we’re fairly rapidly heading to a point of having no fish left at all, surely it would be worth the chance to see if we could salvage the fish. I also don’t think there’s a chance that kind of closure would actually happen, but I’m pretty sure the original question was just a hypothetical, so keep your panties loose everyone ;)
-
Don't be so milk toast. Would someone please disagree with my post. ::)
For those who are looking for answers, like wildmanyeah,milkyman,& others who see the many positives
You are visionaries. Glass half full.
I remember like it was yesterday that Vancouver heard they got accepted to host the Winter Olympics.
Years just flew by & the games were here & gone & now it's 2018.
Like 15 or so years have just come & gone.
If fishing was stopped in areas mentioned for 4 years the time would fly by & before we can say Jimmy Cricket we'd be fishing again. Plus if this was ever done the real idea of conservation may actually penetrate & take hold in our thought processes.( way of thinking )
Anyways the discussion seemed slow so thought I'd give my view on the subject. Where there is a will there is a way. In the very least I see people are viewing this site & were just deciding not to post much.
Good to know members are still alive & heart beating.
Honestly some frogs jump out of the pot before the water starts boiling.
They saw the problem & jumped out.
Some frogs will realize the problem but it's too late...they get cooked.
A leader with vision should put a ban on fishing & let the fish recover.
The idea brought up in a post about closing it every 3 years is an excellent idea!! That would be a 3 yr shutdown spread over 10 yrs. As it is now a lot of the commercial boats do not fish at all anyways so one group already is used to it.
Edit in: sbc hris exactly what I was trying to say in my first post but you said it better.
You have a improved choice of words of the English language. You are. "Right on"
Again like the every 3 yr ban wildmanyeah brought up. No brainer in my books.
-
If the nets were out of the rivers and commercial stopped for 4 years allowing all the fish to return and spawn how couldnt the runs dramatically increase? I get the environmental factors but gotta love the line from Jurrassic park. "Life, Uh, Finds a Way”. Our dependency on salmon to eat could shift to more sustainable options for a period of time to rebuild the stocks.
-
there hasn't been a commercial fishery on chinook or coho in the inside South Coast waters or the Fraser for decades. Most rivers never. Has it made a difference? NO-O-O-O! There is no commercial fishery for steelhead but many rivers have seen those stocks crash and not come back despite decades of closure and c&r.
So if it's such a panacea - how come that hasn't worked?
PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?
-
If I’m not mistaken haven’t summer run chinook for the Fraser River improved since the the 70’s and 80’s. The only difference I can see is there has been very few commercial sockeye fisheries comepared to the years before.
Yes you are right about steelhead and all stocks crashing tho and I’m surprised you did not bring up coho as most sports fishermen like to point out that we have stopped fishing for wild coho yet their numbers are still crashing. Tho I and some others beleive that is more to do with habitats loss.
Tho it’s also hard to ignor how chum stocks have been increasing in the Fraser and relatively stable. A fish that is less commercially sought.
I beleive climate change is the main contributor to the loss of salmon we are seeing everywhere.
Do you beleive if fishing is not having an impact then we should adjust our escarpment goals and fish more?
-
PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?
The stop fishing every 3 years was brought up by a fishing group from Washington and Oregon. They wanted to do it coast wide to Alaska but noted Alaska would never be on board with such a harsh measure. However, noted that south Alaska would probably be as they have seen the same drop in salmon production.
While fishing certainly is not the number 1 contributor and also that if
We stop fishing they could also still continue to crash. It’s hard to say that all the nets everywhere and sports fishermen everywhere are not having an impact.
It’s also a pipe dream as we all know in this day of reconciliation a fishing ban would never happen.
I am a big believer in the theory of depensation and that we are past the point of no return for most stocks. That even if we stopped fishing it could take 100’s of years for them to recover and that we probably need an environmental merical for the stocks to get past the point of no return again.
-
Don’t forget without eyes on the water poaching would go through the roof like on the T. One of the big side benefits of fishing.
-
there hasn't been a commercial fishery on chinook or coho in the inside South Coast waters or the Fraser for decades. Most rivers never. Has it made a difference? NO-O-O-O! There is no commercial fishery for steelhead but many rivers have seen those stocks crash and not come back despite decades of closure and c&r.
So if it's such a panacea - how come that hasn't worked?
PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?
Salmon migrate. Our fish get scooped up in other places than just the southern areas. There are native nets in the Fraser every year despite openings or closures. Chum roe fisheries every year. Pink openings sockeye openings. The list goes on. If the fish passed by un harrassed and more fish made it to the spawning grounds there would in turn be more fish in the future. Not freakin rocket science here.
-
Don’t forget without eyes on the water poaching would go through the roof like on the T. One of the big side benefits of fishing.
Yes there's always the poaching crowd. Every 3rd year or the 4 yr shutdown we can have citizens volunteer checking the rivers & report if they see anything.
Also Gov. enforcement has to be stepped up 24/7.
Plus very strict penalties that all agree with from the native chiefs sport fishers & commercial agree too.
Big fines / & or jail time. Plus vehicle / boat taken away.
One point made was it would possibly take 100's of years...
Well if there was a markable increase in stocks at least that shows it works so....plans are made: fish 2 yr 3rd yr shutdown. Or out of a 20 yr span it gets shut down for 4 yrs. to boast up stocks. Out of 20 yrs one can fish for 16yrs. So....16 yrs ....then 4 yr shut down...then fish another 16 years ....4 yr shut down....so on. The math is in 32 yrs a person can fish with only a 4 yr break at the 16 yr mark. Over the long stretch what's 4 yrs when you can fish for 32 yrs.
-
If the nets were out of the rivers and commercial stopped for 4 years allowing all the fish to return and spawn how couldnt the runs dramatically increase? I get the environmental factors but gotta love the line from Jurrassic park. "Life, Uh, Finds a Way”. Our dependency on salmon to eat could shift to more sustainable options for a period of time to rebuild the stocks.
8)
As logical as 1 plus 1 = 2.
Your honour we rest our case.
-
I think it's far more important to adopt a sensible conservative management regime than close everything to maybe produce a temporary super abundance followed by super slaughter for profit. Salmon abundance cycles prove other factors influence numbers besides the # if fish that get on the redds. Streams, lakes and even the oceans have a carrying capacity. Numbers of fish influence that - more fish need more spawning gravel and more natural food but in the end both are limited.
-
Saving the fish requires a "War Time" effort. All hands and resources on deck, in no particular order;
Shut down the fishery, completely for at least two full cycles. Including Alaska.
Full stop on any development that impacts rivers and streams.
Plant Trees and other native plans where they should be and remove invasives to lower water freshwater temps.
Restore spawning grounds, install ladders and fishways as needed-
Including work arounds of hydro plants that have previously cut off spawning areas.
Seal cull as needed.
Immediate shut down of salmon farms on our coast.
Enhancement/Supplement with hatchery fish as needed based on the needs of the individual watersheds.
Increase fines heavily for polluters.
Poachers have their gear, boat and tow vehicle seized/auctioned. 0 tolerance.
This all starts with the streams we have in our backyards and communities and goes from there. I'm sure i'm missing a lot.
-
...and all we need is a magic wand & Harry Potter. ;D
-
Saving the fish requires a "War Time" effort. All hands and resources on deck, in no particular order;
Shut down the fishery, completely for at least two full cycles. Including Alaska.
Full stop on any development that impacts rivers and streams.
Plant Trees and other native plans where they should be and remove invasives to lower water freshwater temps.
Restore spawning grounds, install ladders and fishways as needed-
Including work arounds of hydro plants that have previously cut off spawning areas.
Seal cull as needed.
Immediate shut down of salmon farms on our coast.
Enhancement/Supplement with hatchery fish as needed based on the needs of the individual watersheds.
Increase fines heavily for polluters.
Poachers have their gear, boat and tow vehicle seized/auctioned. 0 tolerance.
This all starts with the streams we have in our backyards and communities and goes from there. I'm sure i'm missing a lot.
I like that. WAR TIME effort. During WW1 & WW2 the free world got off their butts because it was a live or die or become slaves issue.
What I suggested as 1/10th of the abc's of how to fix....Damien has brought in the A-Z approach...
How true too. Can't argue against any of what he posted.
(Wonder if Rod has any ideas? Has he ever replied to any of my posts ?
Maybe I better subscribe to his You Tube ch first.
I'm safe with that. I'm 63 & was very late to even start using a computer. Had to learn even how to put one on. I ignored many emails asking "to be a friend" because of my non trust or not knowing what is safe to click on or not. Just saying. Hey just throwing that in)
-
I think about most of my friends who dont give a $*&T bout fishing unless its something I make to eat...and they've been living that ban all their lives lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEfE8jJUWyg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEfE8jJUWyg)
-
A-Boater I think Rod reads everything but chooses wisely what he responds to ;D
Once again I think Ralph is the only one who really makes any sense in this thread. And at the end of the day you have to realize that other than a handful of WestCoast tree huggers, we (and I say “we” loosely) are the only ones who really care about the fish!
-
A-Boater I think Rod reads everything but chooses wisely what he responds to ;D
Once again I think Ralph is the only one who really makes any sense in this thread. And at the end of the day you have to realize that other than a handful of WestCoast tree huggers, we (and I say “we” loosely) are the only ones who really care about the fish!
Well as ya think deeper...a four yr shutdown means selling less lures/fishing resorts/fishing guides...
-
If I’m not mistaken haven’t summer run chinook for the Fraser River improved since the the 70’s and 80’s. The only difference I can see is there has been very few commercial sockeye fisheries comepared to the years before.
Yes you are right about steelhead and all stocks crashing tho and I’m surprised you did not bring up coho as most sports fishermen like to point out that we have stopped fishing for wild coho yet their numbers are still crashing. Tho I and some others beleive that is more to do with habitats loss.
Tho it’s also hard to ignor how chum stocks have been increasing in the Fraser and relatively stable. A fish that is less commercially sought.
I beleive climate change is the main contributor to the loss of salmon we are seeing everywhere.
Do you beleive if fishing is not having an impact then we should adjust our escarpment goals and fish more?
Chum stocks are largely influenced by hatchery enhancement so not really the best indication
-
Chum stocks are largely influenced by hatchery enhancement so not really the best indication
totally
DFO has even changed the run timing of Fraser chums.
Before the SEP program started in the 1970's Fraser chum returns peaked in Mid November. Over the decades of enhancement by DFO the November chums are virtually gone and the peak return is right on top of the Thompson steelhead return in Mid October. This was done to appease the commercial gill netters so they did not have to fish in the colder weather.
When fishing the Vedder all through December and into January there would be lots of chums in the shallows and many runs.
-
it's true I noticed the shift from a later peak to an earlier one but that took place well after enhancement - like 20 years+. Rivers like the Vedder and the Alouette always had substantial early returns.The later component on the Harrison has dropped to nothing after the coast wide chum crash of several years ago.
-
This was done to appease the commercial gill netters so they did not have to fish in the colder weather.
I tend to be "show me" kind of guy, and that's a pretty bold claim. I'm curious if you can support that in any way?
-
ocean can support shitloads of life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5mn423F9g
-
How about we fallow the fish farms in the Discovery Passage during peak migration of juvenile salmon and close the Georgia Strait (Salish Sea) to harvesting herring for the roe fishery for a season or two...
-
This video from 1984 should be compulsory watching for anyone that uses the resource. The supply and Demand pictures is still way out of whack! We still have the SEP stocks dominating the non SEP stocks.
https://open.library.ubc.ca/collections/westland/items/1.0048237
-
This video from 1984 should be compulsory watching for anyone that uses the resource. The supply and Demand pictures is still way out of whack! We still have the SEP stocks dominating the non SEP stocks.
https://open.library.ubc.ca/collections/westland/items/1.0048237
Wow, not much has changed in over 30 years ... neat to see some people I know as well. Thanks for posting this.