Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobby b on February 13, 2017, 07:54:03 PM
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This post is to the 2 guys I saw yesterday try (and fail) to wade across the river at Prison run.....
If you are a member(s) of this forum, or happen to read this forum.... you know who you are.
I saw you both head down into the bottom of the tailout and wade across the river where it narrows downstream...... then later you both popped outta the woods all the way back up the river up to the bottom wide section of Prison run ... 1st dude starts to wade across....wades forward into the flow and clearly starts to fumble as the water got higher/faster and ended up swimmin' .....in his waders... a dunk and a few strokes later.. he stumbled across onto the rocks.
I and others were yelling at ya NOT to go as you were goin' .....prob no chance your buddy heard any of that with the white noise of the flow.....seeing as he, after watching you go for a swim..... proceeded to do exactly the same thing , with a bit more of a swim!
Fools ....both of ya. With waders on, that easily could have gotten bad....
I heard ya both were seen stripping down as ya had to get all your wet clothes off/... serves ya right.
Be friggen safe out there .... you have a choice ...if it looks sketchy.. it is sketchy ,why take risks. Someone died in that river on feb 14 last year...no need for another.
Be safe
Peace .....
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Stupid people. If you have no regard for your own life, at least think of the poor rescue crew members that have to endanger their own lives and work theirs butts off to recover your water logged carcasses.
Come on people - lets try get through 2017 without a drowning on the river.
Please - think before you wade. Know your escape plan every time you step into the river, just in case something goes poorly.
Knowing that you'll have to swim in waders is not a good escape plan.
I'm glad I wasn't there to see that. I don't need the nightmares.
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People don't have enough respect for water. I'm saying this because I've had many close calls while trying to wade something I shouldn't.
Always play it safe-if it feels wrong, don't do it.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Tight fitting wading belt will help keep you from filling up immediately. I always wear mine and always have, I've also taken a couple plunges down the Vedder in winter doing something stupid and dangerous. I rarely wade past my knees anymore unless the current is quite slow and I can see the bottom. A fish is not worth a life !
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I do what people perceive as "sketchy" wades quite often.
What one person perceives as sketchy, may very well be completely fine for another angler. For example, I'm confident in waist deep fast flowing water while many aren't.
I have quite a few conditions for a wade.
These are based on bottom substrate, and water directly below/dangers below (waterfalls/cascades/log jams/sweepers), and river levels.
If it's mostly gravel bottom (similar to what I remember the bottom end of prison being), I will often do deep wades/fast water. This is because there is no foot entrapment potential, which is what generally kills people in a panic situation (they try to stand and their foot gets wedged). I'm fine with "deeper water" in a lot of those situations - of course depending on what kind of water is directly below me. I like to have at least 100 yards of water to work with in case something happens. If you fall, you swim. Don't try to stand back up, just beach yourself. If you swim, believe me when I say the waders have literally NO IMPACT. It's trying to stand up that kills you in waders - they are heavy and you can't stand which makes you panic more. Swim to the beach, beach yourself, and crawl up while leaning forward to drain the water out of the top (hopefully you were wearing your wading belt).
I took a couple super sketchy swims in white water last year. They were just that - swims - because I didn't panic and swam rather than trying to stand up. One, I got launched out of a raft on a drift in class 4 water. Everything happened so fast I didn't even deploy the life jacket. I just swam to the raft. The other I was walking a canyon wall and fell 15 feet into a torrent. Luckily on the second one, I was 10 feet away from the end of the wall near a gravel bar and was able to swim out before the cascade below. The second one scared me badly - and now I'm obviously more careful. Learning experience.
Obviously I'm not saying go out and swim around in steelhead season. What I am saying though, is that it's not the waders that kills you - it's panic and bad decisions. If you're not confident in a wade/have a bad feeling, don't do it. If you aren't experienced wading, don't do stupid wades. If you aren't comfortable around water, don't do dumb wades. It's not rocket science. Calling out people on a forum though for a wade they did is kind of silly. The way you often learn is by doing those wades once or twice. I bet they won't do it again, with you calling them out or not. Getting wet scares a lot of people.
It should also be mentioned that the drowning last year on this date was in extremely high water, and wasn't a wading accident.
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when wade into river, do yourself a favour by double checking cellphone in waterproof box. I lost two iphone 6 cost half of my life:)
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Rivers change from one year to another. What is "safe" one year may not be next season.
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I've had a few close calls myself and I'll tell you it doesn't take much to distort visibility and flow. What you think is a clear path going one way can easily change with the tide and shifting of the sun or lack of. I remember the last scary situation I put myself in, I was crossing up river during a down pour and I lost my footing causing the current to twist me side ways pinning me against a boulder. The only reason I was able to right myself was because my rod was out of the water and I was able to use it as a gaff to guide me to the next set of rocks where I found my balance....I didn't panic, but being alone it surely scared me straight. Now I rarely wade pass my knees even in familiar water...it's just not worth it.
I always cringe when I see over confident fishers cross rivers where even the most experienced waders will think twice...It's worse when they refuse to take heed to the warning of others of the danger they're putting themselves in.
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I've had a few close calls myself and I'll tell you it doesn't take much to distort visibility and flow. What you think is a clear path going one way can easily change with the tide and shifting of the sun or lack of. I remember the last scary situation I put myself in, I was crossing up river during a down pour and I lost my footing causing the current to twist me side ways pinning me against a boulder. The only reason I was able to right myself was because my rod was out of the water and I was able to use it as a gaff to guide me to the next set of rocks where I found my balance....I didn't panic, but being alone it surely scared me straight. Now I rarely wade pass my knees even in familiar water...it's just not worth it.
I always cringe when I see over confident fishers cross rivers where even the most experienced waders will think twice...It's worse when they refuse to take heed to the warning of others of the danger they're putting themselves in.
Your description of your scary wade is exactly what I'm talking about. Boulders. They always cause problems. Anything with rocks larger than fist size should be done with extreme caution. I probably wouldn't do anything over knee high in a large boulder setting.
Wading during rising water is never a good idea either. I've almost been stuck a few times.
And I agree that rivers change often. You should never wade just because you've done so in the past. A good pair of polarized glasses and being able to read water goes a long way.
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When you get to my age I use a wading stick even in knee high water and even on dry land too as my balance is not what it used to be. Glad I donot need it on the badminton court. ;D
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The late Barry Thornton wrote an article "Wading the River" that I recommend: http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/thornton/steelhead3.phtml
After I read it, I started using a wading staff (stout stick: not one of the multi-piece metal staffs that only are stable in slow flows) even in water that wasn't particularly challenging. When two anglers are crossing, we link arms and the downstream fellow has a staff while the upstream man carries the rods. I pay extra attention when wading swift, shallow water as falls in the shallows end up hurting a lot more than stumbles thigh-deep as there's less of a cushion in shin-deep water.
I also wear three wading belts, all of them super tight. This reads like overkill, but on the one time I took a dunking last fall I needed all three. I had a hot 2-salt steelhead on the line that wanted out of the tailout and into the rapids below. I was dragging the fish to shore right at the break, and fell backwards on my butt in 1 meter of water. In the strong current, it was like lying down and having a firehouse stuck down the back of your waders. I was quickly back on my feet, released the hen, and then walked to shore and pretty much stood on my head to get the water out that was trapped above the various belts. I hadn't shipped too much on board, and was wet only on one side from shoulder to waist. I ended up fishing the rest of the day in almost-comfort even though it was quite cold out.
I concur with EasyDay that panic is the enemy, so having a plan as to when and where you'll cross is the first step to not panicking if you fall. The shock of <5 degree water can take your breath away, and then the inability to stand right up again (and the decision whether to drop your rod or hang on) can contributed to additional poor decisions.
As I age, I take fewer risks when wading. I have a greater appreciation for the power of the water and perhaps a lowered sense of invulnerability.
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I do what people perceive as "sketchy" wades quite often.
What one person perceives as sketchy, may very well be completely fine for another angler. For example, I'm confident in waist deep fast flowing water while many aren't.
I have quite a few conditions for a wade.
These are based on bottom substrate, and water directly below/dangers below (waterfalls/cascades/log jams/sweepers), and river levels.
If it's mostly gravel bottom (similar to what I remember the bottom end of prison being), I will often do deep wades/fast water. This is because there is no foot entrapment potential, which is what generally kills people in a panic situation (they try to stand and their foot gets wedged). I'm fine with "deeper water" in a lot of those situations - of course depending on what kind of water is directly below me. I like to have at least 100 yards of water to work with in case something happens. If you fall, you swim. Don't try to stand back up, just beach yourself. If you swim, believe me when I say the waders have literally NO IMPACT. It's trying to stand up that kills you in waders - they are heavy and you can't stand which makes you panic more. Swim to the beach, beach yourself, and crawl up while leaning forward to drain the water out of the top (hopefully you were wearing your wading belt).
I took a couple super sketchy swims in white water last year. They were just that - swims - because I didn't panic and swam rather than trying to stand up. One, I got launched out of a raft on a drift in class 4 water. Everything happened so fast I didn't even deploy the life jacket. I just swam to the raft. The other I was walking a canyon wall and fell 15 feet into a torrent. Luckily on the second one, I was 10 feet away from the end of the wall near a gravel bar and was able to swim out before the cascade below. The second one scared me badly - and now I'm obviously more careful. Learning experience.
Obviously I'm not saying go out and swim around in steelhead season. What I am saying though, is that it's not the waders that kills you - it's panic and bad decisions. If you're not confident in a wade/have a bad feeling, don't do it. If you aren't experienced wading, don't do stupid wades. If you aren't comfortable around water, don't do dumb wades. It's not rocket science. Calling out people on a forum though for a wade they did is kind of silly. The way you often learn is by doing those wades once or twice. I bet they won't do it again, with you calling them out or not. Getting wet scares a lot of people.
It should also be mentioned that the drowning last year on this date was in extremely high water, and wasn't a wading accident.
You made a couple valid points; wading below hazards and not panicking.
I will disagree with your other statements;
You've been lucky and need to educate yourself further.
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Forgot to mention that for US$8-$10 (plus shipping plus all the extra Loonie costs) you can buy from Amazon a "Joto" waterproof pouch that hosts most iPhones and Samsungs. I was dubious when I bought mine as you can spend up to $100 in an airport bookshop for the same thing (by a different manufacturer, of course). But it works great: fully waterproof, and the touch-sensitive screen works through the plastic. The photos from my Samsung are as good as those from my waterproof camera.
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A good ziplock bag works great, and touch phones work through the bag with your fingers assuming there's not a 1/4" of guts and borax on your finger. Can talk on the phone through the bag too.
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After you drown from careless wading, it won't matter if your phone was in a zip lock back or not. But fear not, after they recover your body, you and your cell phone will take a ride in a very lovely black vinyl bag sporting a very nice chrome zipper.
Planning a swim with waders is not a good survival plan.
Preparing for an accidental slip by planning what steps and precautions you need to take to survive an accidental slip that puts river water over the top of your waders is good survival planning.
It would probably even be a good idea to go out as a group in the summer to test the effectiveness of a wader belt and the effects of water filling your waders without that belt. Done in a controlled environment, this could make the difference between life or death in regards to how you prepare and how you react once you go under water.
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^^^ YouTube already beat you to it...
Waders are perfectly safe to swim with if you have a belt and preferably a tight fitting peice of clothing (worn over the waders) which will actually work better than any belt. I use mine kayaking in the ocean lots with a pfd with no issues.
I have a old wool sweatshirt that is for this purpose as it shrunk and is now tight fitting and combined with a shirt underneath water has a very difficult time getting in. I don't even use a belt as I think it's kinda pointless and uncomfortable.
An improperly worn seat belt can cause injuries too... Note the word "improperly worn".
A t-shirt and waders is going to fill quickly which is why I wear mine at waist level for the most part when warm and belt it. With the extra wader part wrapped up for a tighter seal.
Bunch of nacys on here, lol
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The problem with waders in a fast flow is NOT that you can't swim in them….. they will cause you to be swept away by the current more easily.
Swimming in a 'controlled' environment ( swimming pool or ocean ) does not equal the effect that fast flowing water will have in a river. Fast flowing chest high water can quickly sweep one away, that combined with the frigid temps of the water esp. when winter fishing, and any unseen obstacles in the river make for a very dangerous situation no matter how ya slice it.
There are more than just boulders to worry about. Submerged branches etc… can get you hung up when in that sceanrio too. I have myself almost been tripped up in a knee deep gravel bottom fast flow ….. old fishing line that was snagged on the bottom wrapped around one of my feet….. go figure
Every Day… I don't think my post was 'silly' ….. I and several others that actually witnessed this, deemed the pair of anglers as 'silly'…'stupid'..'careless'…
I had a guy come down from the very top of the run and he even said "what were those idiots thinking"…
My post was also an attempt to simply make others who may be inexperienced more aware of the dangers present when trying to wade in deep river water. An inexperienced angler may attempt a deep crossing because they saw someone else do it…. and if they are alone and something goes wrong then we all know what 'could' happen.
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Waders can't cause you to be swept down river.... Wearing them improperly can...
Not sure why people fail to understand this?
Part of being a male is doing stupid stuff... Women don't understand the need to take risks but men do... And we sure learn from it... Sometimes, lol
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Meh. Let's ban all wading above the knee. ::)
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Waders can't cause you to be swept down river.... Wearing them improperly can...
Not sure why people fail to understand this?
Part of being a male is doing stupid stuff... Women don't understand the need to take risks but men do... And we sure learn from it... Sometimes, lol
Yes they can…. stand in a good flow with bare legs and shorts and then stand in it with waders on … no difference you say? BS
If you have a tight wading belt on then the air trapped in your legs will cause you to be more buoyant….. the result? ….You will get swept away more easily!! Furthermore having buoyant legs and a non buoyant upper one may also struggle to keep their head above water.
Your last comment is beyond me. Are you saying males 'understand the need to take risks'….really??? Part of being a a dead idiot is doing stupid stuff…male or female.
The web is rife with tragic tales of seemingly safe river wading attempts that have gone wrong….
For some it is a learning experience ….for others it can spell doom.
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OK..... Let's see a "reputable" article supporting your claims... That faults the waders being worn properly...
Next I guess people shouldn't wear a life jacket on the river too as it'll increase your drag profile... Lol
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I'm not here to argue .... believe what ever you like ...
Be safe
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Not here to argue.... Isn't that what Internet forums are for... :o
On a more serious note the "waders of death myth" have been debunked long ago by informed people who have tested it...
If one wants to preach safety (I'm all for safety) backing it with truthful facts sure does help...
I have taken a few swims in the river and I only get wet on my arms and upper chest.... All due to properly wearing my chest waders above the stated advice of just wearing a belt... I'm also ok with a swim as I'm comfortable in the water due to swimming but others probably aren't.
Let this be a note to those stupid people (like me) who take risks... Although mine are calculated and sometimes informed... Sometimes, lol
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The fact a thread that is simply to remind anglers that wading no matter the current conditions CAN in an instant turn tragic has turned into a "well most can't but I can do that safety" baffles me... I agree that even the "sketchiest" of wades/crossings will 9 times out of 10 result in a good soaking/swim and an adrenaline rush, it's that 10th time that gets you...point is you can take all the "calculated " risks you want but at some point that cat runs out of lives... all the cautionary tales in the world won't stop the "not to me" guys from doing things most consider shear stupidity, unfortunately alot of those guys are the ones who's family members and loved ones will have to live with the consequences of their teflon mentalities
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Not here to argue.... Isn't that what Internet forums are for... :o
You may not be here to argue, but comments like " Bunch of nacys on here" or "Not sure why people fail to understand this?", or all the lol's, can inhibit the exchange of constructive dialogue and cause some folks to disengage.
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I'll try to to keep this succinct as possible, as long winded statements tend to lose the audience.
You CAN swim rivers with waders, providing you prevent water from entering them. I have done experiments. When you enter a river with waders on, the water will compress the waders to your body and even with a tight wading belt air will be expelled. This will create a TEMPORARY seal, water will slowly leak in and once the seal is broken, water will enter your waders rapidly. This is were a wading belt or belts, greatly reduce water penetration. Wearing a Goretex jacket, drytop and PFD will further reduce water penetration.
If your waders fill will water, you won't sink because water is neutral in water. What can happen if your not wearing a wading belt, is your waders become like a parachute and catch currents and they can pull you under.
When I came out of a pool after filling my waders, I had 70 pounds of water in them! It is extremely difficult to swim with your waders full of water, it's like having a full length cast on both legs. It is extremely difficult to kick with your legs as a result. This also makes it very hard to safely climb up to shore to safety, due to the weight of water in your waders.
Use a wading belt at all time!
Rivers can be dangerous, you need to ask yourself if it's worth the risk wading above your waist in faster currents.
As someone else pointed out, you don't suffer if you die, your family, kids, friends do! No fish is worth a risky river crossing. I'm not saying not to wade above your knee, I'm talking about a high likelihood that you can be swept downstream. If you plan on doing high risk wading I highly recommend wearing a whitewater style PFD, as inflatable PFD's ARE NOT designed for rivers.
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Wading during rising water is never a good idea either. I've almost been stuck a few times.
You're absolutely right...I only did what I did because I was coming back from the opposite side of the river... It was a bush wack situation where I under estimated the amount of rain coming down and by the time I got to my original crossing point, I had to settle for a mid run location where it was the safest route across. Not my proudest moment, but lucky for me I've got a few years of experience under my belt....Needless to say, it was the beginning of the end of my recklessness.
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You may not be here to argue, but comments like " Bunch of nacys on here" or "Not sure why people fail to understand this?", or all the lol's, can inhibit the exchange of constructive dialogue and cause some folks to disengage.
X2
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The old saying that "it's all good, until it's not" applies here.
Keep your teabags dry, and manage the risk appropriately.
Be safe, and enjoy.