Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: nosey on August 11, 2016, 02:45:22 PM
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Does anybody here have any idea how many tons of salmon have been caught this year by commercial seine fleet? I thought that with conservation concerns this year they would be shut right down but a buddy of mine in Seward told me a seiner pulled into harbour there recently loaded so heavy they couldn't get another fish on board. Is there anywhere that the commercial catches are made public?
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Seward? Are they targeting the stocks which are closed for recreational fishermen in the Fraser River?
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Does anybody here have any idea how many tons of salmon have been caught this year by commercial seine fleet? I thought that with conservation concerns this year they would be shut right down but a buddy of mine in Seward told me a seiner pulled into harbour there recently loaded so heavy they couldn't get another fish on board. Is there anywhere that the commercial catches are made public?
Pacific Salmon Commission
http://www.psc.org/FraserPnl/Status/FRP_Fraser_sockeye_pink_status.pdf
Seward Alaska? Not our fish.
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Sorry for misspelling, Sayward * Johnston Strain, 100% our fish. Catch summary was only from Aug 7-13 does not reflect at all on commercial catch to date.
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And yes the commercials target Fraser river sockeye every year long before they reach here, that 900 fish reported doesn't even fill up the corner of the hold in a seiner.
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Sorry no they are not targeting Fraser sockeye in Johnson Strait. Stock presence and source is done by genetic testing so they know what sockeye are coming through Johnson Strait and fact is there are no other commercial size runs from that come south from that area.
Even numbered years are the high cycle years for pink salmon on the north coast so likely that is what were in the seiner.
There are some sockeye runs up there - notably the Nimpkish, Smith Inlet and River's Inlet but no idea if those have openings as all have been a conservation concern for decades. Non-Fraser fisheries are also not controlled or enumerated by the PSC, that's done by DFO. That info can be hard to find and may not be available under after the season. DFO also posts notices on commercial openings all along the coast.
Also just want to mention Seiners can travel quite a ways to fish an opening - it's possible those fish are Skeena fish. I but fish from a gut here who has a boat in Steveston and he goes out to Barclay Sound every year to fish commercial sockeye openings.
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I but fish from a gut here who has a boat in Steveston and he goes out to Barclay Sound every year to fish commercial sockeye openings.
Just to be clear, the fish being sold by the commercial guys are very often sold close to where they are being caught. If a seiner is coming in to a harbor to sell a boat load of fish, they were very likely caught not too far from there. If the fish are out of the water for too long they will start to degrade in quality and that starts taking money out of the boat's pocket.
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Here in Steveston plenty of commercial boats that harvest on the WCVI, etc sell their catches on the dock.
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Here in Steveston plenty of commercial boats that harvest on the WCVI, etc sell their catches on the dock.
How long of a trip is it to get out to Barclay Sound? By boat it has to be, what, 100+ miles? That is going to take a loaded down seiner (as was the case in this point) a very long time, even assuming they could go full speed which they likely couldn't. What are we talking, 6, 7, 10 hours? Unless their entire hold is iced, that seems like quite a long time to wait, especially considering the first set of fish sat on the boat for most of the opening as well.
I could see them keeping out what they think they can sell on the dock, whatever that is. The entire boat load? No.
Also my guess would be if there is an opening on the WCVI, the commercial buyers in Steveston are not even open.
My guess is boats travel down the day before for an opening. If it is going to be a multi-day opening, they stay there. If not, then they offload a majority of their catch at a buyer in the area and only bring home what they expect to sell on the dock.
Granted, my experience is in the states but I know the seiners there would take the hour or two trip in to Blaine or Point Roberts to offload their catch if they were planning on travelling down to Bellingham and that isn't near as far as WCVI to Steveston.
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Just to be clear, the fish being sold by the commercial guys are very often sold close to where they are being caught. If a seiner is coming in to a harbor to sell a boat load of fish, they were very likely caught not too far from there. If the fish are out of the water for too long they will start to degrade in quality and that starts taking money out of the boat's pocket.
you can be as clear as you want as I never said they don't.
BTW I've checked the commercial & Aboriginal salmon for openings Area 13 (Johnston Strait) & Area 12(Queen Charlotte Strait). There haven't been any this year. So it would seem the report of seiners unloading Johnston Straight sockeye in Sayward is of doubtful authenticity.
There were recent opening for chum in Area 8 & 9. Perhaps that was what was unloaded in Sayward.
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you can be as clear as you want as I never said they don't.
I know. What you did say though was that seiners can travel a long ways for an opening. While they may travel a long way for an opening, they don't wait to sell their fish to when they get back in their home port. That was the clarification I was trying to make. If there was a boatload of fish coming in, it likely was caught close.
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How long of a trip is it to get out to Barclay Sound? By boat it has to be, what, 100+ miles? That is going to take a loaded down seiner (as was the case in this point) a very long time, even assuming they could go full speed which they likely couldn't. What are we talking, 6, 7, 10 hours? Unless their entire hold is iced, that seems like quite a long time to wait, especially considering the first set of fish sat on the boat for most of the opening as well.
I could see them keeping out what they think they can sell on the dock, whatever that is. The entire boat load? No.
Also my guess would be if there is an opening on the WCVI, the commercial buyers in Steveston are not even open.
My guess is boats travel down the day before for an opening. If it is going to be a multi-day opening, they stay there. If not, then they offload a majority of their catch at a buyer in the area and only bring home what they expect to sell on the dock.
Granted, my experience is in the states but I know the seiners there would take the hour or two trip in to Blaine or Point Roberts to offload their catch if they were planning on travelling down to Bellingham and that isn't near as far as WCVI to Steveston.
For sockeye caught in Port Alberni they transport the fish by truck in totes on the ferry, then load the tote onto a fish boat in steveston and park at the sales dock. It is well worth the effort.
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For sockeye caught in Port Alberni they transport the fish by truck in totes on the ferry, then load the tote onto a fish boat in steveston and park at the sales dock. It is well worth the effort.
For private sales, yes. I'm not disputing that at all. My point was if the boat is pulling into the harbor loaded down, they almost surely caught the fish fairly close to that harbor. It wouldn't make sense for them to do that and then bring it here and sell it to a commercial buyer. The price isn't likely that much different and if there is no opening in the area, the commercial buyers are likely not even ready to accept the fish. You can bet if they are pulling in to harbor loaded down with fish then it is likely they caught those fish within probably a three hour drive of that harbor.
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it's common to sell fish to packer boats out on the water. Seiners don't have to return. As I said - there was no opening in the area and it's a better conclusion that fish came from elsewhere or the report - which is hearsay - is not reliable.
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Sorry for misspelling, Sayward * Johnston Strain, 100% our fish. Catch summary was only from Aug 7-13 does not reflect at all on commercial catch to date.
The summaries are "Catch-to-Date", not the weekly catch. The total catch-to-date data for the season up to that week is updated with the new additional catch data for that week. What the summary is telling you is there has been no directed commercial fisheries on Fraser River sockeye in Fraser Panel managed marine and freshwaters this season. Only First Nations FSC and a little US First Nations harvests to date.
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so where does fresh sockeye on craigslist come from ?! ::) for 15$ a fish ?
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I don't do the Craigslist thing.
Do a screen shot and send it to DFO or RAPP.
Tell them your concerns.
It concerns me as well; unless there's an opening.
Lots of stolen (in some form or anothe)r on there.
My 2 cents.
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so where does fresh sockeye on craigslist come from ?! ::) for 15$ a fish ?
troll.
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troll.
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/for/5737511313.html
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see above.
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see above.
troll.
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what is your point ?
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many of your posts are trolls. That's the point.That's just trying to twist people into knots in a difficult situation
Frankly if those are native caught fish (caught in Yale) so be it. I am fine with it. If you don't like it follow Fish or Cut Bait's advice. BTW DFO probably checks these out anyway.
Sockeye at $10 to $15 a fish is common if you buy it right off the boat. I bought Alberni fish @ $20 in early July and that included the packing shipping costs to Vancouver.
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many of your posts are trolls. That's the point.That's just trying to twist people into knots in a difficult situation
Frankly if those are native caught fish (caught in Yale) so be it. I am fine with it. If you don't like it follow Fish or Cut Bait's advice. BTW DFO probably checks these out anyway.
Sockeye at $10 to $15 a fish is common if you buy it right off the boat. I bought Alberni fish @ $20 in early July and that included the packing shipping costs to Vancouver.
so which knot am I twisting by asking "where are they coming from" , and after u calling me "troll" , I gave u straight link to source ... u still trying to call me troll ... so if u are ok ok with buying sockeye for 10-15$ fresh off boat , why so many cases are lost in courts ? :) commys got no openings ..... so is that really "food" that is so required for rituals and and etc .... ? or ?
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As I understand you're not a native BC person and possibly not a Canadian Citizen. If that's true I'd suggest you do a some contemplative study on your own rather than provoke arguments with purple rhetoric & what are often half truths & distortions even someone like me provides you with information you clearly lack. That's what I mean by trolling.
1st Nations people in Canada once owned this country from one end to the other east and west and north and south. That is recognized in all Canadian documents and in our constitution which was put into law about 30 years ago.
Just over 100 years ago they had virtually everything taken away and lost everything & that wrong has only lately started to be corrected. Governments, our neighborhoods and our courts are still trying to figure how it is all going to work.
As to your reference to 'cases lost in courts' - the courts all over Canada have found 1st nations are entitled to a make a reasonable living off the food items they gather from the land and water. That has been confirmed even when 1st Nations were convicted of fishing contrary to regulations - convicted because they caught too much not because they simply caught and sold some fish.
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Ralph , I don't understand why are so angry and mean ? Forums meant for discussions and asking question .
As per this topic I just simply asked where does the fish comes from , I had received answer . Here coming you and start calling me troll in this post . where is logic ?
As per other topic , I just shared my knowledge about reserve by mouth of that river , and "fish low tide , run away on high" was clearly understood by guy who started that topic as he agrees that low tide is the best . Read more careful about "extreme" conditions while fishing there , and think "is it really a good idea to go and ask permission to fish on their side?" .
So I clearly can`t understand what do expect ?! I don`t provoke anyone , I NEVER meant to hurt anybody`s feeling . Now back to more trolling .
I can`t imagine how much impact and damage me and guys like me would do by bar fishing tidal fraser with 1 or 2 BARBLESS hooks to sockeye (I would say chances 1 to 1 000 000) , I`ve talk to quite a few oldtimers around , very very odd cases over last 20 years . Chances to catch spring a bit more higher but stil that`s pretty rare . And when I say tidal fraser I don't include Banana area where you can troll ... So where is logic here ?!
I`m just trying to discuss this situation with people .
As Aaron mentioned I might have problems with English and sometimes we can miscommunicate , but I don't think that`s a reason to call me troll . If you calmed down and willing to continue discussion with respect to your opponent , I would love to continue .
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Now back to more trolling .
I can`t imagine how much impact and damage me and guys like me would do by bar fishing tidal fraser with 1 or 2 BARBLESS hooks to sockeye (I would say chances 1 to 1 000 000) , I`ve talk to quite a few oldtimers around , very very odd cases over last 20 years . Chances to catch spring a bit more higher but stil that`s pretty rare . And when I say tidal fraser I don't include Banana area where you can troll ... So where is logic here ?!
Well my friendly troll, answers have been given. Why keep asking the same question? Are you perhaps just looking for someone to give the answer you desire regardless if it is a good answer or not?
Ever heard the old homily "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference".
You need to work on that.
Another piece of advice - there is more folklore, bigotry and outright fabricated lies circulated on fishery issues. You're far better off to do your own research rather than rely on the scuttlebutt of friends and 'old timers'.
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I don't understand the reluctance to answer the questions. The courts have ruled to allow 2 types of openings for First Nations, FSC and commercial. There has been no commercial openings on the Fraser this year so they cannot legally sell the fish. Also, there has been no FSC openings in almost a week so any fish that are "fresh off the boat" now are illegally caught.
I am bear no grudge against the Natives, and if they can make a living selling legally caught salmon for $15 then great. But to fish illegally, sell fish illegally, and to ignore the threat to the extremely endangered run then I get upset. They are conducting an illegal commercial fishery and the law is not being enforced.
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I don't understand the reluctance to answer the questions. The courts have ruled to allow 2 types of openings for First Nations, FSC and commercial. There has been no commercial openings on the Fraser this year so they cannot legally sell the fish. Also, there has been no FSC openings in almost a week so any fish that are "fresh off the boat" now are illegally caught.
I am bear no grudge against the Natives, and if they can make a living selling legally caught salmon for $15 then great. But to fish illegally, sell fish illegally, and to ignore the threat to the extremely endangered run then I get upset. They are conducting an illegal commercial fishery and the law is not being enforced.
Not necessarily. If it's a non-native poacher stupid enough to advertise on CL, throw the book at him. If it's a Native fishing outside of their bands FSC allotment, throw the book at them.
But if it's a Native fisher selling part or all of his share of the bands FSC allotment (there are FSC openings in the Fraser right now), that part of the law is in doubt due to the BC Supreme Court decision regarding the Nuu Chal Nuth's right to fish and sell fish on Vancouver Island. It's likely the courts would dismiss any charges in the latter case and similarly rule in favour of the Fraser River band's historic rights to fish and sell fish. The Hudson Bay Co. has excellent records detailing their historic bargaining with the Fraser River natives for salmon so it may be a can of worms DFO doesn't want to open on the Fraser.
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Ty a lot for new info StillAqua , its really something new to me ...
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As I understand you're not a native BC person and possibly not a Canadian Citizen. If that's true I'd suggest you do a some contemplative study on your own
So this is a BC born Canadian Citizen ONLY forum, is that what you're saying?😂
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So this is a BC born Canadian Citizen ONLY forum, is that what you're saying?😂
Then sadly many of us including me and Rod can't qualify then 😪😛
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So this is a BC born Canadian Citizen ONLY forum, is that what you're saying?😂
Or is he saying that the poster should take some time to research the facts behind the native issues before he proposes solutions?
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Pacific Salmon Commission
http://www.psc.org/FraserPnl/Status/FRP_Fraser_sockeye_pink_status.pdf
Seward Alaska? Not our fish.
Seems like the PSC has lots of data on Fraser fish but not much on other runs (skeena,Columbia etc) anyone know where to find catch escapement data for all of Westcoast fishery or different sources to determine total catch of FN/commercial/sport.
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Seems like the PSC has lots of data on Fraser fish but not much on other runs (skeena,Columbia etc) anyone know where to find catch escapement data for all of Westcoast fishery or different sources to determine total catch of FN/commercial/sport.
Not sure where First Nations catches are but comms and rec are here:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/stats/index-eng.html
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Or is he saying that the poster should take some time to research the facts behind the native issues before he proposes solutions?
DING! GordJ has the correct answer.
Better yet know and understand the history and legal facts before opening one's mouth and proving oneself to be an idiot.
...better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it
"
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Are you seriously going to keep ridiculing him on a message board?
No however I took him seriously and I don't anymore. Much the same with you.
Cheers! ;D
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DING! GordJ has the correct answer.
Better yet know and understand the history and legal facts before opening one's mouth and proving oneself to be an idiot.
..."
To elaborate on that point, the rhetoric being thrown around here and on social media right now isn't helping the situation. To anyone outside the sport fishing community and to many of us within it, this does nothing but hurt the image of sport fishermen making us appear racist, uneducated, narcissistic and acting only in our own self interest.
Between our attitudes and the way we've been acting I can see why we aren't being taken seriously.
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best place to look is here:
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=fishery_search&ID=all
latest I found was here
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=186800&ID=all
I bought fresh sockeye at Save On Burnaby yesterday
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best place to look is here:
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=fishery_search&ID=all
latest I found was here
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=186800&ID=all
I bought fresh sockeye at Save On Burnaby yesterday
Alaska?
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Alaska?
yeah possibly and maybe Siberia. Both produce way more sockeye than BC.
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yeah possibly and maybe Siberia. Both produce way more sockeye than BC.
now do Fraser sockeye all mingle way out there, and are they harvesting our fish ?
makes u wonder !
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both are mostly terminal fisheries (ie take place close to their natal rivers). IIRC Siberian fish tend to stay more in the Western North Pacific though is overlap. FWIW 70% of the Pacific Salmon biota in the North Pacific are Siberian pink salmon.
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To elaborate on that point, the rhetoric being thrown around here and on social media right now isn't helping the situation. To anyone outside the sport fishing community and to many of us within it, this does nothing but hurt the image of sport fishermen making us appear racist, uneducated, narcissistic and acting only in our own self interest.
Between our attitudes and the way we've been acting I can see why we aren't being taken seriously.
I agree . Maybe some old grumpy will change his attitude or at least try to control himself , he is not the only one here . I`m not saying I`m perfect , but I`m willing to learn and fish legit , and if people like him will throw **** at me and my buds , maybe he should re-think ?! Instead of calling me "troll" and "idiot" maybe he should guide me the right way ?! If you will do that to another few people of my age , which I consider young generation , what kind of fishing attitude you expect to come in the future ?!
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I certainly haven't exhibited any racist, uneducated or narcissistic attitudes. ;D
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People.
Let. It. Go.
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what's good for the goose is sauce for the gander
::)
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I certainly haven't exhibited any racist, uneducated or narcissistic attitudes. ;D
so sad to see you smile ....
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it's not a smile, it's a BEG :P