Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: CohoJake on August 10, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
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Can't say I'm surprised
Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0837-RECREATIONAL - Salmon: Region 2 Non-Tidal Fraser River: Mission Bridge to Alexandra Bridge - Immediate Closure of all Salmon Fishing
Effective dates: one hour after sunset on Thursday, August 11, 2016 until
further notice.
Waters: The Fraser River in Region 2 (from the downstream side of the CPR
Bridge at Mission, BC to the downstream side of the Alexandra Bridge).
Management Measure: Fishing for salmon is not permitted.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon have
resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's
first priority is to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the
spawning grounds. The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye
impacts and provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social
and ceremonial purposes.
Recreational fishing opportunities for trout, steelhead, sturgeon and other non-
salmon species in this area remain open.
The Department recognizes the improvements made in the recreational fishery to
use techniques to target chinook salmon however at this time all potential
impacts to sockeye salmon pose a risk to conservation.
The Department will continue to review sockeye stock status information on a
regular basis to help inform future fisheries management decisions and fishing
opportunities. Updated information will be announced by fishery notice.
Variation Order Number: 2016-357
Notes:
Anglers are advised to check http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-
eng.html for fishing closures and other recreational fishing information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia's toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River) – Delta (604)666-2370
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0837
Sent August 10, 2016 at 14:23
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription
If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
And here's the Tidal Closures:
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0839-RECREATIONAL - Salmon: Area 29 - Tidal Waters of the Fraser River - Immediate Closure of all Salmon Fishing
Effective dates: one hour after sunset on Thursday, August 11, 2016 until
further notice.
Waters: Tidal waters of the Fraser River (downstream edge of the CPR bridge at
Mission to the mouth).
Management Measure: Fishing for salmon is not permitted.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon have
resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's
first priority is to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the
spawning grounds. The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye
impacts and provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social
and ceremonial purposes.
Recreational fishing opportunities for trout, steelhead, sturgeon and other non-
salmon species in this area remain open.
The Department will continue to review sockeye stock status information on a
regular basis to help inform future fisheries management decisions and fishing
opportunities. Updated information will be announced by fishery notice.
Variation Order: 2016-356
Notes:
Anglers are advised to check http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-
eng.html for fishing closures and other recreational fishing information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia's toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River) – Delta (604) 666-2370
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0839
Sent August 10, 2016 at 14:38
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription
If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0838-RECREATIONAL - Salmon: Area 29 - Fraser River Mouth: Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 and 29-10 - Immediate Closure of all Salmon Fishing
Effective dates: 23:59 hours on Thursday, August 11, 2016 until further
notice.
Waters: Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 and 29-10 (Fraser River mouth).
Management Measure: Fishing for salmon is not permitted.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon have
resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's
first priority is to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the
spawning grounds. The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye
impacts and provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social
and ceremonial purposes.
The Department will continue to review sockeye stock status information on a
regular basis to help inform future fisheries management decisions and fishing
opportunities. Updated information will be announced by fishery notice.
Variation Order: 2016-365
Notes:
Anglers are advised to check http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-
eng.html for fishing closures and other recreational fishing information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia's toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River) – Delta (604) 666-2370
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0838
Sent August 10, 2016 at 14:33
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription
If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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"The Department recognizes the improvements made in the recreational fishery to
use techniques to target chinook salmon however at this time all potential
impacts to sockeye salmon pose a risk to conservation. "
...and that doesn't include the FN's netting over the past two weeks at all!!
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why was it open?,numbers have been low for weeks on all sockeye runs.
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I can't understand why they would go so far as to close the mouth to salmon fishing - are any sockeye being intercepted by those trolling for springs?
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It's gonna be hard staying off the river and watching fn fish selectively with gill nets for Chinook's.
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I can't understand why they would go so far as to close the mouth to salmon fishing - are any sockeye being intercepted by those trolling for springs?
Well, this is how it works... ;)
After two weekends of communal openings for sockeye salmon. Fisheries and Oceans Canada has determined that there is a conservation concern and no additional openings will be provided for all Lower Fraser River First Nations, from the mouth up to Alexandra Bridge. To counter that closure, First Nations argue that if there is a conservation concern, then recreational fishermen who are targeting chinook salmon can also not be fishing because sockeye salmon are being intercepted. Even though we, the recreational anglers, know that while some sockeye salmon are encountered in the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River, fishing in the tidal and mouth of the Fraser River can actually be done selectively. To make it easier, managers are pressured to close the entire section where no bands can fish.
"If we can't fish, they can't fish either."
Which fishery are you willing to give up next?
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BTW... Word on the street is that there is a pikeminnow derby going on at Gill Bar this weekend and everyone's going for that elusive 15lb specimen which can only be caught by using a spin-n-glow and a chunk of roe wrapped below it. Hundreds of bar rods are expected to be set up along the river to see who can be crowned the 2016 pikeminnow king/queen. ;)
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We should all not renew our licenses next April and see if the government takes notice to that.
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We should all not renew our licenses next April and see if the government takes notice to that.
you do that! ::)
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How are people supposed to not bring race into the discussion when the sole reason for the closure of the recreational Fraser Chinook fishery is because of the Natives slaughtering the sockeye to sell illegally and complaining about recreational fisherman once they have finished their pillaging and been shut down? Bottom bouncers are obviously to blame too, but there is no comparison in Sockeye caught by gill nets - 46,664 to date this summer...
Everyone should be phoning that number and complaining
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (Fraser River) – Delta (604) 666-2370
So the natives had their fill with 46,664 sockeye and DFO wants to shut down the sporties for next to nothing fatalities of sockeye just so natives don't continue to take 10s of thousands of sockeye? Gosh! DFO may as well get funding from native bands than from us tax payers. LOL. We know natives have their rights. But don't other Canadians have their rights too and many businesses and guides depend on the Chinook fishery to survive so why should natives' right to sockeye override the non-natives' right to Chinook which is not threatened? The incidental catch and fatality on sockeyes can't be used as a realistic reason to shut down the non natives compared to anything the natives have done to the sockeye stock. Just pathetic. Protest fishery anyone?
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A real protest in front of the DFO's office may actually attract some media attention and send a clearer message to politicians as well as the general public. Support from the general public would be a more lethal weapon to fight this idiocy.
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The general public may have a different opinion than you as to who are the idiots.
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So the natives had their fill with 46,664 sockeye and DFO wants to shut down the sporties for next to nothing fatalities of sockeye just so natives don't continue to take 10s of thousands of sockeye? Gosh! DFO may as well get funding from native bands than from us tax payers. LOL. We know natives have their rights. But don't other Canadians have their rights too and many businesses and guides depend on the Chinook fishery to survive so why should natives' right to sockeye override the non-natives' right to Chinook which is not threatened? The incidental catch and fatality on sockeyes can't be used as a realistic reason to shut down the non natives compared to anything the natives have done to the sockeye stock. Just pathetic. Protest fishery anyone?
I agree with you William , but not much you can do about it :D
Give me a shout lets go catch some flounders and greenlings instead :D
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The general public may have a different opinion than you as to who are the idiots.
I understand that natives do have rights , but like SH mentioned above - we don`t ?! just be realistic and tell me chances of catching spring/sockeye in Richmond area barfishing :))) 1 of the 1 000 000 ? :) or even lower ?! Last year we got **** up with pinks , while no pinks coming was ok , as soon as massive coming back started - no fishing for pinks , as soon as almost all fish pass by - pinks open again .... so I`m paying for fishing license just to fish between "prime" times ?! :D if fish around - I can`t fish , if no fish - I can ?! I want a discount on license then "off season" type 75% off :D
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So the natives had their fill with 46,664 sockeye and DFO wants to shut down the sporties for next to nothing fatalities of sockeye just so natives don't continue to take 10s of thousands of sockeye? Gosh! DFO may as well get funding from native bands than from us tax payers. LOL. We know natives have their rights. But don't other Canadians have their rights too and many businesses and guides depend on the Chinook fishery to survive so why should natives' right to sockeye override the non-natives' right to Chinook which is not threatened? The incidental catch and fatality on sockeyes can't be used as a realistic reason to shut down the non natives compared to anything the natives have done to the sockeye stock. Just pathetic. Protest fishery anyone?
Just a second FN have right to catch fish for own and ceremonial consumption . Ceremonial use i.e. selling fish to non natives from pick up trucks is in full swing . I have already heard of people stuffing freezers with sockeye. Or is it conservation effort on part of our stuarts of the fish and they hope by diversifying location of sockeye DNA throughout Fraser Valley freezers some might survive to be resurrected in the future?
There are natives on this site and perhaps someone could explain to me if I'm wrong. I also fully understand that by allowing this practice to go on our government is making up for Native folk neglect.
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I can't understand why they would go so far as to close the mouth to salmon fishing - are any sockeye being intercepted by those trolling for springs?
We were trolling t10 marker last week, and the only thing we got was a sockeye, and a dogfish.
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i also have been to t10 3 times. i hit 0 sockeye, 1 65cm white spring (if had to guess local Harrison fish feeding) and a dozen dog fish. the salt guys are not impacting sockeye numbers what so ever. so this closure kind of gets me.
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not everyone has the resources that enable you to have a boat that can go past the mouths of the fraser. i see lots of other boats out there that are quite small. i have a jet boat so i dont go to far unless winds are cooperating. i launched at macdonald and fish the north side of bowen in the spring. on the way back after picking up my crab traps in west van it got nasty. if i didnt have air ride seats i dont think i could get through the south arm mouth with the amount of traffic that goes through there.
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there is a ridiculous amount of coho in the straight...... So look forward to river coho action, It should be insane this year.
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If you boycott licenses, you're not hurting DFO or sending a message to them at all. You'll be impacting your interior trout fishing opportunities, the higher enforcement presence this year, and steelhead/cutthroat fishing in a number of hatchery systems. Your license sales don't go to salmon... They go to trout and steelhead.
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there is a ridiculous amount of coho in the straight...... So look forward to river coho action, It should be insane this year.
i hope you are right. the only thing i don't like about targeting them in the salt is the damage that can be done to wild fish. if you can call them that anymore. maybe its just me but i have seen a lot of coho bleeders in the chuck.
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does the pacific salmon foundation get nothing from the province? or any salmon projects?
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there is a ridiculous amount of coho in the straight...... So look forward to river coho action, It should be insane this year.
for who ?! fn or commercials ?
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there is a ridiculous amount of coho in the straight...... So look forward to river coho action, It should be insane this year.
Lets hope FN aren't allowed to string a net across the CV for coho, like they were for sockeye.
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FYI, the salmon conservation surcharge that you pay on your freshwater fishing licence actually does not go to DFO. It directly goes to the Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation, which funds hundreds of projects like habitat restoration, building new infrastructures for anglers, research, etc...
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cool, thats good to hear.
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If you boycott licenses, you're not hurting DFO or sending a message to them at all. You'll be impacting your interior trout fishing opportunities, the higher enforcement presence this year, and steelhead/cutthroat fishing in a number of hatchery systems. Your license sales don't go to salmon... They go to trout and steelhead.
why I should bother buying salmon tag on both ? steelhead tag on fresh ? if I fish for trout or w/e I must have stamp for steelhead ... even if where is none ... for what ?! I can legally fish wish just license w/o stamps,so should I bother buying them or just c&r ? since u can`t fish for them at all :D
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FYI, the salmon conservation surcharge that you pay on your freshwater fishing licence actually does not go to DFO. It directly goes to the Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation, which funds hundreds of projects like habitat restoration, building new infrastructures for anglers, research, etc...
where does the tidal one go ?!
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where does the tidal one go ?!
Pacific Salmon Foundation.
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What a mess...
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Ugg...so much BS. If we all stopped buying licenses and shut down the hatcheries ( no more of my damn money funding ) how long would it take before there was nothing left? not very long... certainly getting tired of the same old same old "f you rec guy, just keep funding this s$#t
for us, suckers!".
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Rodney , so if no one is buying licenses and no one is buying tags , where the money will be coming from and who will pay for keeping stocks and hatcheries alive ?!
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Nobody will pay for it. The hatcheries will close and because the rec sector aint carrying the load anymore fish stocks will collapse extrodinarly fast
.I'm to the point of why keep paying for something I can't access. I would even be willing to may more for licenses and tags if I was still allowed to fish.
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It becomes evident that it's 1 giant circle jerk. Rec sector puts money in to stocks in jeopardy and try to avoid said stocks. Ie interior coho Thompson basin steelhead fn drift gill nets at those crucial times taking fish from those stocks. Stocks dwindle more rec sector puts in more money repeat..... The drifting of gill nets has to stop if it doesn't with in a half dozen years there is no coming back
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I hope there is a license boycott next year! Go ahead shoot yourselves in the foot. Think of all the bank space there will be for me! Yeah! ;D
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Who says I won't be fishing?
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According to the DFO, the restoration of wild salmon and their habitats will be supported further through the Recreational Fisheries Conservation Partnerships Program, which funds 55 community projects in BC.
The federal budget in 2016 gave $197.1 million to increase the fisheries department and freshwater science program. This includes hiring 29 new scientists, biologists, oceanographers and technicians for the Pacific Region.
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Ugg...so much BS. If we all stopped buying licenses and shut down the hatcheries ( no more of my damn money funding ) how long would it take before there was nothing left? not very long... certainly getting tired of the same old same old "f you rec guy, just keep funding this s$#t
for us, suckers!".
Yeah try that and tell me why dfo would care if you don't buy a freshwater license. As for buying a tidal license not sure how those funds are diverted.
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does the pacific salmon foundation get nothing from the province? or any salmon projects?
https://www.psf.ca/contributors/thank-you-list
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Culture of special entitlement needs to stop. Fish doesn't care whose hand is holding a bonker. When the last fish is bonked it would still be the last fish. If the groups keep arguing amongst themselves it does no good to the cause. Every group may have a good case. I often hear a sentiment that natives lived in balance with the nature and so on, so here is a chance to prove it!
Special thanks go to the government for allowing destroying fish habitat: e.g. allowing soil dumps near Chehalis; for LNG; for C site dam;
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Just think how cozy the Vedder will become once the COHO come in. This might be it for me on the Fraser and Vedder/Chilliwack. In fact I don't think I'll bother with the Salmon or Steelhead in the LML anymore - for me, the fun has gone. :'(
On the positive note, with me out of the river, two regular sized guys can take my place. ::)
Sad that I witnessed the complete collapse of freshwater salmon fishing during my fishing lifetime. Maybe it will recover, but I think not.
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reading the various threads online and on facebook it's obvious the system in place is flawed. It's creating an environment of confrontation and straight up racism.
some sort of system needs to be created where transparency and accountability are at the fore front. the resource needs to be managed with the cooperation of user groups.
the racist comments are seriously bull$h!t. Theres likely only 5% of the recreational fishermen here that actually try to enhance the resource, maybe even less. I am confident the vast majority of you have never written a letter to your elected representative. nor have you voiced your concerns among established non profit groups within the lower mainland. F#@K, most of you leave timmy cups all over the trails on the various rivers we have here.
naw, instead you go online and say natives are lazy and sell fish outta trucks. thats cool ::). funny how i never met a lazy white guy or a criminal caucasian ::).... maybe trace your ancestry to wherever the hell your from and head on back. :P
if you don't like the system, help to change it or leave.
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Some more salt water to your wounds .
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/salmon-stamp-revenue-belongs-back-in-bc/article4612496/
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reading the various threads online and on facebook it's obvious the system in place is flawed. It's creating an environment of confrontation and straight up racism.
some sort of system needs to be created where transparency and accountability are at the fore front. the resource needs to be managed with the cooperation of user groups.
the racist comments are seriously bull$h!t. Theres likely only 5% of the recreational fishermen here that actually try to enhance the resource, maybe even less. I am confident the vast majority of you have never written a letter to your elected representative. nor have you voiced your concerns among established non profit groups within the lower mainland. F#@K, most of you leave timmy cups all over the trails on the various rivers we have here.
naw, instead you go online and say natives are lazy and sell fish outta trucks. thats cool ::). funny how i never met a lazy white guy or a criminal caucasian ::).... maybe trace your ancestry to wherever the hell your from and head on back. :P
if you don't like the system, help to change it or leave.
While I get the sentiment, I can understand the other side too. I grew up in WA. My dad put a lot of money and time into raising salmon eggs and repopulating streams that no longer had salmon. I spent a lot of time at those boxes, removing bad eggs, feeding the fish, releasing them into different areas. We raise coho, and a lot of them. People came from the official hatchery and from other areas to view our process because we were doing it better than they were able to. The first year we were supposed to get escapement back, there were a couple, very large coho but fewer than we expected. The next year, none. A lot of time was spent looking for the problem. Unfortunately, it wasn't too hard to find. There was a net, strung across the creek entrance and inside the net were dozens of huge, hook nosed coho that were trying to return to where we had planted them. My dad lobbied the fisheries to stop them from completely netting off the stream entrance. He tried to appeal to the tribe. Nobody cared to do a thing. The next year, when that net reappeared, we were done raising salmon. All we were doing was putting money into some other guy's pocket and it wasn't restoring the fish at all. The fish had no chance and nobody that had the power to do something about it cared enough to do anything. All it was was taking what they could get right then and there.
That isn't living in harmony with the land. That isn't policing your own group. Sure, maybe that was a bad egg in the bunch but if that is the case, then the elders should have heard what was happening and put a stop to it. Unfortunately, the bad eggs in the bunch rarely seem to be reprimanded from what I am able to see. It sure doesn't stop them from continuing. If the FN want to claim they are helping protect the runs, then they should be out policing their members. Anybody caught fishing when they aren't supposed to, fishing in a way they aren't supposed to, breaking any of the rules with respect to harvesting or catching salmon loses their right to fish for some significant length of time (like 5 years). You can't be for conservation of the runs and then let people of your group rape the runs at the same time.
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seriously dfo needs to get there cupcakes together. on there website it still says that chinook are currently open for areas 29-6 to 29-10. is it open or is it closed. i searched for FN0837 on their web site and nothing comes up. no wonder there are so many people breaking the rules. you need a lawyer to figure out when you can and cant fish.
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The fishery notice for the immediate closure was just issued yesterday, so you gotta give them some time... It should be updated to reflect the closures, when another announcement is made for the reopening in two weeks from now. :)
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Well DFO sure made a mess of things on both Pacific and Atlantic coast of Canada
interesting read with the full report
http://www.oceana.ca/en/publications/reports/heres-catch-how-restore-abundance-canadas-oceans
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if they want people to abied by the rules they need to have that information updated immediately. its 2016. it takes 2 seconds to link that notice to the website. if i didn't check your site and left this morning i could face serious penalties.
i thank you for the time and effort you put into making sure the word gets out. couldn't imagine how bad it would be to find info without websites such as yours.
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Thanks bigblockfox. That's pretty much what I've repeatedly stated in emails for the past 5 years, nothing has changed.
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if they want people to abied by the rules they need to have that information updated immediately. its 2016. it takes 2 seconds to link that notice to the website. if i didn't check your site and left this morning i could face serious penalties.
i thank you for the time and effort you put into making sure the word gets out. couldn't imagine how bad it would be to find info without websites such as yours.
I share your view. Frustrating as hell trying to get the most recent updates yet they expect us to follow the rules and regulations.
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I share your view. Frustrating as hell trying to get the most recent updates yet they expect us to follow the rules and regulations.
Next time the CO gives you a hard time about the regs, someone should pass him a smart phone starting on the DFO homepage and ask him to find the most current regs and openings/closures. He'll be stuck in navigational hell for the rest of the day and unable to issue any more tickets.
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dont even get me started on the mobile website. twice as hard to find information.
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or habitat destruction...
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or habitat destruction...
Nailed it. Imagine what could happen if native bands, commercial fishermen, and sport/food fishermen joined together to fight the well documented causes of salmon stock decline? There might even be enough to make all groups happy in years to come.
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Nailed it. Imagine what could happen if native bands, commercial fishermen, and sport/food fishermen joined together to fight the well documented causes of salmon stock decline? There might even be enough to make all groups happy in years to come.
that will never happen
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that will never happen
Sure. It's a lot more difficult than complaining on the internet about natives and commies.
No fish = no fishing. Fighting over the last scraps is not the solution.
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Fraser stocks have proved in the past they can bounce back from low stock numbers as long as there is suitable habitat so long term, reversing destruction and degradation of habitat is essential. Rising water temperatures in the watershed and out in ocean is habitat degradation. There are many other causes as well and it's a complicated issue which we all contribute to daily without thinking about it. The strong El Nino of the last couple of years has also had an impact and might be the short term cause of low sockeye numbers. Commercial & Native interceptions on this cycle have been low so I think people bark up the wrong tree when exclusively blaming them.
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It is probably futile to persuade DFO to open the Chinook fishery to the sporties when the natives probably threaten them that they would continue netting sockeyes if we are not stopped. DFO is just too timid against FN and they are powerless to enforce rules against them. Wasn't it that COs got pepper-sprayed in a reserve while trying to enforce something against the natives? Let's just hope that when the sockeye run is done that DFO will open the Chinook fishery like they did last year in September. By then, they really have no excuse to keep the fishery closed unless they stick up the Thompson Coho conservation excuse and keep us out. By then, sporties should really organize a public demonstration or a protest fishery against such unfair treatment of the recreational sector by DFO.
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The fishery notice system is undergoing maintenance until tomorrow so none of the notices are available.
But the static websites are still available, that's where you can check the correct regulations, if they have been updated. ;)
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The fishery notice system is undergoing maintenance until tomorrow so none of the notices are available.
But the static websites are still available, that's where you can check the correct regulations, if they have been updated. ;)
Part of me wants to head out and fish just to get a ticket to fight. I still can't find out what the notice on the Pitt says so I guess I am good to go. I can't find the static site you reference.
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Rod Clapton and some others interviewed on CBC radio a couple times yesterday plus the story made the local news. I gotta say the proposal to close certain sections of the river popular with bottom bouncers wasn't convincing. They could simply move to some area that's not closed. Neither was his claim the Fraser Sport Fishery was worth $100 million a year to the local economy. A claim he stated at least 2x. That would require 10,000 anglers spend $10,000 within the usual 4 to 6 week opening window. Seems hard to see that happening. Best I recall DFO angling assessments usually found around 3,000 people fishing even when the sockeye run was hot as it was in or 2010.
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Rod C. is referring to 100 million dollars annually from all Fraser rec fisheries, not just the 4 to 6 weeks opening for sockeye salmon.
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also seems improbable but the question was what is this fishery worth - the chinook fishery - not the entire river.
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I wish I had $10,000 a year to spend on fishing. :(
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Sockeye heads and guts thrown all over the road on Stevenson road in Chilliwack. Looked like some nice roe to :'(
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In terms of fishing for Salmon in freshwater the writing has been on the wall for a very long time, as far back as '98/'99 when I first started posting on the net I predicted closures on the Fraser and was called all sorts of nasty names/criticised as an ignoramus but Guess What-today it's closed more often than it's open.
This downhill trend will continue and the future is not just bleak it's black and one day soon-not in my lifetime but certainly in the lifetimes of most posters here-all freshwater fishing for Salmon will end.
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http://www.psc.org/FraserPnl/Status/FRP_Fraser_sockeye_pink_status.pdf
According to this link provided by Rod on the 'Commercials' thread, in the 2nd table provided, the natives actually have taken 112,000 sockeye so far, not the 44600 mentioned earlier in this thread. Wow, all those fish for FSC purpose? And FN think they haven't gotten enough in a low run year unless we have to be out of the water for Chinook? This is what get people so upset that DFO is very unfair to the sporties and FN has no heart to conserve the sockeye fish stock that matters so much to their culture and tradition. Don't they care that they will wipe out the stock if they continue netting them? Why they have to drag down not just the sporties but all the businesses and people depending on the non-threatened Chinook for livelihood just so that they have the justification to stop netting sockeye? What kind of respect they have for the threatened sockeye to take so many of them in such a bad year and think they haven't gotten enough unless all others stop fishing altogether despite it is a Chinook fishery? Why is DFO caving in such ridiculous demand from the FN? Do they work for FN or do they work for Canada?
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FN have been drift netting all the past week at night, just upstream of the Agassiz bridge. DFO were called and show up in the afternoon, just before closing time, with a chopper, looking at their campsite. How efficient???
All week, all night long.
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Sockeye heads and guts thrown all over the road on Stevenson road in Chilliwack. Looked like some nice roe to :'(
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/13934880_10157286176680483_8858441418896800901_n_zpsbf0r71jj.jpg) (http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/13920890_10157286176690483_143022971944078953_n_zpsb53hd0xi.jpg) (http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/13934648_10157286176575483_2700481048687975275_n_zpskckncliy.jpg) (http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/13906676_10157286176580483_1760010833835863632_n_zps51xxi5fr.jpg)
Someone's bait box fell off the truck.
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I only expect sockeye rec openings once every 4 years....2018....2022 etc....if that cycle year collapses then sockeye rec openings will b finished. maybe plan other pursuits during the other three years such as camping..hiking..travelling overseas...or home renos until whites/chum and coho show up in the fall. Maybe dfo can issue c/r licenses (no kill any fish ) at half price to keep people on the water. I meet many anglers every year on the vedder that dont eat fish but love fishing. Perfectly bright healthy fish released back in the water.
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Stewards of the Land..
I think if the salmon stocks disappeared altogether the feds would be happy..
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Management Measure: Fishing for salmon is not permitted.
...
Recreational fishing opportunities for trout, steelhead, sturgeon and other non-salmon species in this area remain open.
How the heck does one fish for steelhead without being construed as fishing for salmon?
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http://www.psc.org/FraserPnl/Status/FRP_Fraser_sockeye_pink_status.pdf
According to this link provided by Rod on the 'Commercials' thread, in the 2nd table provided, the natives actually have taken 112,000 sockeye so far, not the 44600 mentioned earlier in this thread. ....
Why is DFO caving in such ridiculous demand from the FN? Do they work for FN or do they work for Canada?
the 44.6k figure was from a week or 2 ago. The 112k number is pretty typical. You can look at the PSC page and check past years. The allocation is more or less based on some number of lbs of fish per day. I don't exactly remember the number but it's like a pound or 2. That is for 1st Nations all the way up the river to at least Prince George. They have a right to this fish - it goes back to the 19th century for BC and has been confirmed in the courts etc. There is no 'caving'. Sport fishers really need to get in tune with reality because some of you are living in some la la land. Bitching on the internet will never change this. You will also never change this via political activism since no one is interested in fixing their cart to such a movement.
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the native catch could have been stopped for conservation,,numbers have been poor since the early stuart
run began. worst in 100 yrs. what does it take for managers to wake up.
The Sparrow justification test applies beyond Aboriginal rights, to include treaty rights and Aboriginal title as well.
The Court further ruled that:
•Aboriginal and treaty rights are capable of evolving over time and must be interpreted in a generous and liberal manner.
•Governments may regulate existing Aboriginal rights only for a compelling and substantial objective, such as the conservation and management of resources.
•After conservation goals are met, Aboriginal Peoples must be given priority to fish for food over other user groups.
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The fishery notice system is undergoing maintenance until tomorrow so none of the notices are available.
The system is back up but the Albion numbers give 404. Dаmn.
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As I mentioned years ago on this site; DFO is terrified to confront aboriginal actions on fishing because when challenged in court on regulatory actions, the feds lose; then, there could be a free for all on salmon, conducted on behalf of some individuals without defined treaty rights and DFO then has no legal control. As many seem to fail to perceive, is that aboriginal title (for the most part, with a few exceptions) is not yet defined in BC, and as such, is dealt with on a nation-to-nation basis. I.E. they don't have to obey the laws of Canada because legally they have not signed on to be part of Canada (treaties).
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Just think.....once the native food ceremonial fishery destroys the endangered sockeye run....they can start hammering the chum and roe fishery to the ground as well.
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Just think.....once the native food ceremonial fishery destroys the endangered sockeye run....they can start hammering the chum and roe fishery to the ground as well.
--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.
--It is clearly not in the interest of FN to destroy salmon stocks. The presence of salmon is integral to their culture and supports land claims by showing traditional areas of harvest.
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Sad that I witnessed the complete collapse of freshwater salmon fishing during my fishing lifetime. Maybe it will recover, but I think not.
You and me both. What a sad state of affairs.
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--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.
+1...Add all the other crap they waste so much energy over (ie the anti BB debate) & sport fishers wonder why they have such little political influence & credibility outside their own bitch circles.
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--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.
--It is clearly not in the interest of FN to destroy salmon stocks. The presence of salmon is integral to their culture and supports land claims by showing traditional areas of harvest.
While I understand to some extent, I think in this case it is fully understandable. People are unable to fish for chinook because the FN held the sockeye hostage. That is the sole reason. Despite DFO caving and closing the recreational fishery to save the sockeye, there are still reports of fishing by FN nets. Couple bad eggs? Possibly. But like I have posted before, if they are bad eggs, then they should be dealt with by the FN themselves. If not, then they are complacent and rightfully should be seen as supporting the action. You can't rightfully claim they care about the conservation when first they hold the threatened species hostage to get a closure on a different species that all reports were showing very little impact to the threatened species and second, continue to fish when conservation is required.
I see it similar to Islamic terrorists. If the terrorists attends a mosque and they are well aware he is stockpiling weapons and plans something, is everyone that knew those facts supporting a terrorist if they don't try and stop them? I believe so. Heck, this is more like not only did my friend plan on going on a shooting spree that he had told me about, but now there are news reports of a person matching my friend's description going on a shooting spree, carrying out the plan my friend had planned. I didn't do anything to try and stop him and won't even tell the authorities who he is. Do I support his actions? No matter what I say, my actions show that I do. Do FN support poaching and not care about saving the sockeye? No matter what they say, their actions show that they do.
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While I understand to some extent, I think in this case it is fully understandable. People are unable to fish for chinook because the FN held the sockeye hostage. [You think] That is the sole reason.
While there is some truth that FN have blocked the chinook fishery it has at least as much to do with Anglers who won't follow DFO direction to fish selectively. That would put some sockeye at risk. Anglers who don't resist going into cross eyed hysterics about the FN fishery don't help either. This group of people only seem capable of knowing with absolute certainty who the enemies are - they have little trouble making many.
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While there is some truth that FN have blocked the chinook fishery it has at least as much to do with Anglers who won't follow DFO direction to fish selectively. That would put some sockeye at risk. Anglers who don't resist going into cross eyed hysterics about the FN fishery don't help either. This group of people only seem capable of knowing with absolute certainty who the enemies are - they have little trouble making many.
At least as much? All I have heard is there are virtually no sockeye even jumping, very few chinook to catch, and VERY FEW people even fishing. I've heard nothing about them closing it because people weren't following the suggestion of fishing selectively. Do you have sources for that?
What seems more likely? That they would close it because there were a couple hundred (or maybe a thousand or two sockeye tops) that might be caught and released with a lower expected spawn rate or that a group was threatening to take thousands in nets with a 0 percent expected spawn rate for those? Might lack of fishing selectively have played a part? Sure. An equal or a greater part? Come on.
The hate doesn't help but trying to justify this action or trying to say it wasn't the primary cause of the closer does nothing but piss more people off. I hope you and everyone can just admit it was greed driving the FN decision and conservation was not on the mind of the people that decided this was a good idea.
I do find it funny that you think anglers should avoid going into cross eyed hysterics on something like this though. Many on here are fishing selectively. Many weren't even fishing because there weren't fish to be caught. Another group then decides to offset the fairly small and possibly no impact on the sockeye by killing thousands unless the people that are fishing selectively get shut down and people aren't supposed to be really pissed off over that? It wouldn't matter if the FN threat was 10% of DFO's decision. Even if it played absolutely no part. The fact it was even threatened should piss people off because of the principle behind it.
If the FN wanted to be part of the solution, the response should have been more along the lines of "When we aren't fishing we will help monitor those fishing to help report people that are not fishing selectively to the DFO so they don't affect the sockeye." That is constructive and helpful. No, this was a greedy move that should turn anybody's stomach.
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Well said, TNA.
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Fantastic Blair :) . i sent a simular one as well yesterday
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At least as much? All I have heard is there are virtually no sockeye even jumping, very few chinook to catch, and VERY FEW people even fishing. I've heard nothing about them closing it because people weren't following the suggestion of fishing selectively. Do you have sources for that?
Your post is nonsense. BB'ers outnumber bar fishers by a substantial margin. The need to selectively fish was made clear at the time opening was put in place. The courts have already ruled that as some fish will die in a fishery where release of some or all sport fish is required it is an allocation and DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.
Anyone thought of exercising their right to go fishing somewhere else?
With luck the closure will be lifted in a couple of weeks for a week to 10 days before the interior closure is put in place (funny no one launches in paroxysms of rage over that one). Chinook fishing will be far better by then. Until then chill out.
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Fantastic Blair :) . i sent a simular one as well yesterday
--Hope you CC'd these to your MP as well.
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DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.
Denying aboriginal fishing rights on what? They already got 112,000 of those precious sockeye in this low run cycle. What rights have they been denied? We are talking about two different species of salmon. DFO's mandate is conservation, not political nor racial preference. The Chinook is not having conservation concern. Sockeye is. The natives want to continue to net a threatened species and DFO has every right to stop them without using the biased and statistically unproven reason that those targeting Chinook can do any damage to that stock more than one net set in the river, whether by FN or by test fishery. DFO is stopping the sporties, the guides, the tackle shops and other businesses who benefit from the Chinook fishery with minimal impact on the sockeye stock just to get the natives off the water because this group threaten them with a reason which is totally not based on any factor of realistic conservation impact. DFO is being held hostage by a group of people who have over-extended their rights after they have already harvested 112,000 sockeye. Why do you still think FN is justified in this selfish and unfair action on their part? And where did most of those 112,000 sockeye go when you see all those sockeye heads ang gut/roe all over a city road? While FN has their rights, they and DFO have to respect that the rest of Canada has their rights too, and that is the rights to fish a species which is not threatened. DFO has no right to stop fishermen who have bought their licenses to fish if the conservation concern is not an issue and the objection is not scientifically and mathematically supported by facts on the river.
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Well done! It is about time we fight back.
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Your post is nonsense. BB'ers outnumber bar fishers by a substantial margin. The need to selectively fish was made clear at the time opening was put in place. The courts have already ruled that as some fish will die in a fishery where release of some or all sport fish is required it is an allocation and DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.
Anyone thought of exercising their right to go fishing somewhere else?
With luck the closure will be lifted in a couple of weeks for a week to 10 days before the interior closure is put in place (funny no one launches in paroxysms of rage over that one). Chinook fishing will be far better by then. Until then chill out.
By a substantial margin? When? This year? What do you consider a substantial margin? The couple reports I have seen involve people going to typical BB hotspots to find nobody, or one or two boats. In fact, the number of vehicles at the launch were almost non-existent. Yeah, I'm sure that is having a HUGE effect on the sockeye. The number of people fishing, even if every one of them was bottom bouncing wasn't going to have near the effect on the sockeye as the nets would have had. Again, we are talking about a decrease in survival up to spawn versus a 0% spawn rate. It is sad you can't admit that and can't admit that it was greed with a clear lack of concern for the fishing run that would prompt the FN's threat. The fact you can't understand why people would be upset about it, and then just being told to go fish elsewhere, wow.
The need to selectively fish was a suggestion, only. It wasn't a requirement.
Let's see how this opening a sports fishery without allowing FN fishing rights stack up by using the catch reported. Chinooks reported as harvested to date, 3,500. Sockeye reported as harvested to date, 50,748 lower river, 23,459 upper river. That also ignores all those unreported numbers that we all know happen. Hmm, that would appear to have allowed FN fishing rights. You ignore the fact that there were chinook openings even when the sockeye numbers were down. It is only after the threatened continual fishing for sockeye did the entire river get shut down. FN shot themselves in the foot. They could still probably be fishing for chinook using wider mesh nets but they decided to go nuclear and get the whole thing shut down. I suppose now you will say they did that because they knew the DFO would shut it down and they wanted to try and protect the sockeye, right? It was the same issue I had with the protest fishery. You don't protect a fish run by killing the thing you are trying to protect.
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@RalphH
Thanks for being the voice of reason. I'm glad that someone else here 'gets it'.
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@RalphH
Thanks for being the voice of reason. I'm glad that someone else here 'gets it'.
So, you supported the FN holding to sockeye runs hostage to prevent recreational chinook fishing with a recommendation to fish selectively? Care to explain what end goal these actions would have that would be honorable?
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Anyone thought of exercising their right to go fishing somewhere else?
Northern BC would sincerely appreciate the "Indignant Salmon Angler Stimulus Package" that you could introduce to our economy. Come on up to region 6 gents! Lot's of places to stay, lot's of fish to catch.
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All I have heard is
The couple reports I have seen
Do you still reside in Tennessee?
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Fantastic Blair :) . i sent a simular one as well yesterday
I think Blair should have read up on existing case law before he posted his "letter." Many of the slights he feels have already been decided on in the courts. For those who wish to pursue legal action should read this document first (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/282791.pdf) as it may save them a lot of frivolous court time and cost.
I also read that although he plans to go fishing illegally, he does not say when/where. Kind of difficult to be fined and taken to court without being caught. As he lives in Surrey and is willingly ready to break the law, I proactively sent a Twitter DM to the RCMP and included a link to this thread and also his FB page.
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I think Blair should have read up on existing case law before he posted his "letter." Many of the slights he feels have already been decided on in the courts. For those who wish to pursue legal action should read this document first (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/282791.pdf) as it may save them a lot of frivolous court time and cost.
I also read that although he plans to go fishing illegally, he does not say when/where. Kind of difficult to be fined and taken to court without being caught. As he lives in Surrey and is willingly ready to break the law, I proactively sent a Twitter DM to the RCMP and included a link to this thread and also his FB page.
i didn't wear my seat belt on the way home yesterday. you going to send a tweet to the rcmp about that too. give me a break. civil disobedience is a common practice if you want change. sure, might not be what you would do but if he feels that strong about the issue so be it.
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i didn't wear my seat belt on the way home yesterday. you going to send a tweet to the rcmp about that too. give me a break. civil disobedience is a common practice if you want change. sure, might not be what you would do but if he feels that strong about the issue so be it.
My friend doesn't wear a seat belt either - but he sure puts it on in a hurry whenever the police are nearby.
As for civil disobedience. Big difference between it and blatantly breaking the law, no matter how strong you feel about any issue.
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I think Blair should have read up on existing case law before he posted his "letter." Many of the slights he feels have already been decided on in the courts. For those who wish to pursue legal action should read this document first (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/282791.pdf) as it may save them a lot of frivolous court time and cost.
I also read that although he plans to go fishing illegally, he does not say when/where. Kind of difficult to be fined and taken to court without being caught. As he lives in Surrey and is willingly ready to break the law, I proactively sent a Twitter DM to the RCMP and included a link to this thread and also his FB page.
Did you report this as well ?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=40042.msg377280#msg377280
:o
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My friend doesn't wear a seat belt either - but he sure puts it on in a hurry whenever the police are nearby.
As for civil disobedience. Big difference between it and blatantly breaking the law, no matter how strong you feel about any issue.
still what good is it to forward that to the rcmp? i personally think thats d-bag move. just my opinion.
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Did you report this as well ?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=40042.msg377280#msg377280
:o
kind of looks like civil disobedience to me no?
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still what good is it to forward that to the rcmp? i personally think thats d-bag move. just my opinion.
I find a strange sense of irony and self righteousness in this thread. On one hand it is ok to slag on for days against the FN and how they do not follow and are above the law etc. Yet when other person here says he is going to willingly break the law for the very same fish species he espouses to protect, then this makes it right by others?
I have great respect for our fishery and those who are willing to diligently work within the bounds of ethics and the law to protect this same fishery. I would report anyone I see or those who are contemplating to break the law in a misguided step to "stick it to the man," so to speak.
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Sure would like to be fishing right about now. Those Chinook numbers in the Albion test nets have climbed since last week. :-\
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I find a strange sense of irony and self righteousness in this thread. On one hand it is ok to slag on for days against the FN and how they do not follow and are above the law etc. Yet when other person here says he is going to willingly break the law for the very same fish species he espouses to protect, then this makes it right by others?
I have great respect for our fishery and those who are willing to diligently work within the bounds of ethics and the law to protect this same fishery. I would report anyone I see or those who are contemplating to break the law in a misguided step to "stick it to the man," so to speak.
Instead of worrying the damage done by a guy fishing illegally with one rod and one hook for the non-threatened chinook, your time is better spent going around checking for illegal nets to pull the nets out or report that to rcmp. Those nets are breaking the law too and can surely damage the stock that you care about. That will do much more to save the threatened sockeye. LOL.
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I find a strange sense of irony and self righteousness in this thread. On one hand it is ok to slag on for days against the FN and how they do not follow and are above the law etc. Yet when other person here says he is going to willingly break the law for the very same fish species he espouses to protect, then this makes it right by others?
I have great respect for our fishery and those who are willing to diligently work within the bounds of ethics and the law to protect this same fishery. I would report anyone I see or those who are contemplating to break the law in a misguided step to "stick it to the man," so to speak.
yes i agree, bashing the fn is uncalled for. not all of the people on this forum are properly informed about the issue. it is a very complex issue with no real winners. i respect the fn for what they have done in standing up against bad government and commercial decisions. at the same time i can see the other side as well. people are seeing netting on the vedder taking place and wondering why sockeye are being netted when this year seems to be a bad year and the river is closed to them. unfortunately i think the problem is unsolvable. hope im wrong.
as for the rcmp tweet, both you and i know the authorities can do nothing with the info you have provided from this thread. i am all for protecting the river and oceans. if i see something that should not be happening i call the rapp line but i think that is over kill.
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Instead of worrying the damage done by a guy fishing illegally with one rod and one hook for the non-threatened chinook, your time is better spent going around checking for illegal nets to pull the nets out or report that to rcmp.
I live a few minutes from the Fraser. No nets or illegal fishing today but the water conditions were perfect about 30 minutes ago. Observed a couple of salmon break the surface, but too far out to identify.
(https://i.imgur.com/vXZ1R0v.jpgI)
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DFO has no right to stop fishermen who have bought their licenses to fish if the conservation concern is not an issue and the objection is not scientifically and mathematically supported by facts on the river.
LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.
There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!
On August 15 the discharge of the Fraser River at Hope was 2,925 cms, which is approximately 14% below the historical average for this date. The temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark on August 15 was 20.6 0 C, which is 2.60C higher than average for this date. The Fraser River water temperature at Qualark is forecast to reach 21.1 on August 21. Sustained exposure of sockeye to Fraser River water temperatures in this range has been shown to cause severe stress and early mortality.
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Northern BC would sincerely appreciate the "Indignant Salmon Angler Stimulus Package" that you could introduce to our economy. Come on up to region 6 gents! Lot's of places to stay, lot's of fish to catch.
Great Idea-I did it once and had a blast-the Bears scared the sh*t out of me though!
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LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.
There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!
I, and I am sure almost everyone on here would agree, that if they River had been closed for conservation concerns and salmon survival there would be no outcry. But the simple fact of the matter is that it wasn't. The River was closed because First Nations said that if Sporties can fish for the non-endangered Chinook they would continue to net the endangered Sockeye. It is really quite simple. I don't blame the DFO as they are not equipped to deal with type of extortion. Even if they make arrests they will be released and the issue will be in front of the courts for years while the netting continues and last of the sockeye is sold. This is not speculation! It has been well documented that the Sockeye are on the precipice, perhaps they have already fallen.
Now I want to be clear about something else. First Nations are in no way responsible for the collapse of the Sockeye. Loss of spawning grounds, warmer temps, pollution, an excess seal population, and much much more has all contributed. But in the end, when the final net is pulled up and the final sockeye's head lies on the streets of Chilliwack does it really matter?
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LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.
There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!
what chances of catching sockeye or spring bar fishing in tidal area around Richmond ?! be realistic ...
I bought license , I bought tags , why I can fish between runs ?! but at the same time I can use bar rig with roe and target dollys , but not salmon... but if some CO really would like to be a **** he can give me a ticket for that , although I called DFO Steveston and asked if I can bar fish for dollys with roe and shrimp . How does that work ?! Or give me a discount on "off season salmon fishing" and I will follow advise above and will go fish somewhere else ... I think that`s fair enough , isn't it ?
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Do you still reside in Tennessee?
I do but all of my family is in WA right across the border and my dad took numerous trips when it was open. I also followed a lot of the reports on here. I follow it closely because it has been a couple years since I have been able to fish the Fraser because of the closures and planned a special trip for the week after Labor Day but might have to drag my family down to the Columbia instead if this doesn't get figured out.
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He does have a point. It's one thing that the freshwater Fraser is closed - bottom bouncers will be out if it is open and that means intercepting Sockeye that are endangered and migrating long distances in extra warm Fraser water. However in the tidal portions of the river you can't even bottom bounce as there is not enough current (fish can travel up the middle if they want), and too much water to cover. People bar fish the tidal portion and you are not going to ever get a Sockeye bar fishing with roe.. only Chinook - if you're really really lucky even. So why have it closed there? Kinda weird.
Because none of this is about the bottom bouncers. It is just one of the excuses
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yes i agree, bashing the fn is uncalled for. not all of the people on this forum are properly informed about the issue. it is a very complex issue with no real winners. i respect the fn for what they have done in standing up against bad government and commercial decisions. at the same time i can see the other side as well. people are seeing netting on the vedder taking place and wondering why sockeye are being netted when this year seems to be a bad year and the river is closed to them. unfortunately i think the problem is unsolvable. hope im wrong.
as for the rcmp tweet, both you and i know the authorities can do nothing with the info you have provided from this thread. i am all for protecting the river and oceans. if i see something that should not be happening i call the rapp line but i think that is over kill.
First, I don't support going out and breaking the law. You can see my posts for the protest fishery as well. They should be consistent on my stance here. I cannot see any reason why holding sockeye hostage in this case given the numbers can be seen as anything but greed and enough to make me sick. If the FN had said "Fine, you are going to let the recreational guys fish, then we are going to fish for Chinook and keep any sockeye by catch" I could understand that. I suppose if you said their entire goal was to shut everything down completely I guess then maybe it was a success. Please explain to me why this action shouldn't make me sick.
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Some people are talking out of both sides of their mouth here as just a month ago there was much talk and upset over the fact DFO might not open the sport fishery in early August because of low chinook returns. After threats of a protest fishery there was much gloating that the FRSS forced DFO to open the fishery.
So it's ok for Sport Anglers to exert political pressure to get an opening but not for 1st nations to get a full closure?
This year's closure is consistent with what's been done in the past were there is the combination of low sockeye returns and high river temperatures.
BTW there has been years when there is quite an active sockeye snag fishery in parts of the Fraser below Mission & sockeye can be caught trolling out in the banana.
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active sockeye snag fishery in parts of the Fraser below Mission & sockeye can be caught trolling out in the banana.
Is this a joke or you just keep trying stirring the pot?
I'd be very curious to see how you can bounce below Mission, total nonsense.
Also please give us some some sport catch numbers from the banana so we can get a grasp on the scale of that fishery.
As others already stated the Tidal closure has nothing to do with sockeye by-catch by sorties.
Have a nice day.
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Well, now add to this the closure of the Thompson and Upper Fraser river to salmon fishing. I don't know if bottom bouncing was popular up there at all.
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0866-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Region 3: Fraser River main stem and Thompson River - No Fishing for Salmon
Waters
- The main stem Fraser River in Region 3; and
- The Thompson River from the Kamloops lake outlet downstream to the confluence
with Fraser River
Management Measure: Effective until further notice, you may not fish for
salmon.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon have
resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's
first priority is to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the
spawning grounds. The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye
impacts and provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social
and ceremonial purposes.
The recreational fishery for chinook salmon in these waters was anticipated to
open August 22 but will not open at this time due to the possibility of
impacting co-migrating sockeye salmon.
The Department will continue to review sockeye stock status information on a
regular basis to help inform future fisheries management decisions and fishing
opportunities. If required, updated information will be announced by fishery
notice.
Please visit the DFO Recreational Fishing website for up-to-date Sport fishing
information (www.bcsportfishguide.ca)
Variation Order Number: 2016-363
Notes:
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia’s toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).
FOR MORE INFORMATION: Dale Michie 250-851-4946
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0866
Sent August 17, 2016 at 08:56
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Here's the background information that lead up to this Thompson River closure, from the resource manager for Region 3 and 8.
"With the current situation with conservation concerns of Fraser sockeye similar to the Lower Fraser fishery closures, the Thompson River will not open at this time due to impacts on migrating sockeye and environmental conditions projected for the upcoming weeks. A fishery notice will be released momentarily reflecting the closure until further notice which the Dept. will be monitoring the situation closely. The decision guidelines to open or close chinook directed opportunities was highly weighted to any fisheries known to have impacts on sockeye based on historical creel data would not proceed and fisheries with no impacts based on creel data could proceed. Currently the South Thompson, Lower Shuswap and Mable Lake with numerous years of creel data shows no sockeye encounters which opened today, the Thompson creel data collected previously does show impacts on Fraser sockeye which is collected in three locations ( Savona, Juniper beach and Bonaparte) but we do not have any creel information for the section below Goldpan. With no available creel data for that area even though fishers indicate very few impacts, it is still an impact and without creel data to indicate zero impacts we are not able to open the Thompson fishery at this time. I have discussed the situation with the local SFAC regarding the dept. decision process late last week and why Sandy Macdonald is included in this e-mail as he is the co-chair for the Mid Fraser Thompson Okanagan Sport fishery Advisory Committee."
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"The return of Fraser sockeye this year is tracking to be the lowest on record." This is frightening, does anyone know where to access past run escapement totals? Looking at the Albion test fishery, the sockeye catch this year actually hasn't been too bad, but maybe the Albion test fishery should be reexamined as a method to estimate run size.
Does anyone recall if river conditions were exceptionally poor when the 2012 fish returned? Given the good return of sockeye to the Columbia river, I have a hard time believing it is only ocean conditions that are the problem here - plus the Chilliwack Lake and Baker lake (Skagit river) sockeye runs are doing pretty decent, if somewhat lower than expected.
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"The return of Fraser sockeye this year is tracking to be the lowest on record." This is frightening, does anyone know where to access past run escapement totals? Looking at the Albion test fishery, the sockeye catch this year actually hasn't been too bad, but maybe the Albion test fishery should be reexamined as a method to estimate run size.
Does anyone recall if river conditions were exceptionally poor when the 2012 fish returned? Given the good return of sockeye to the Columbia river, I have a hard time believing it is only ocean conditions that are the problem here - plus the Chilliwack Lake and Baker lake (Skagit river) sockeye runs are doing pretty decent, if somewhat lower than expected.
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145461&ID=all
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145473&ID=all
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I think that is three out of four years in the cycle where the runs are very low. Even if they start to rebuild it will be a generation before they are back. Seems to me to be a desperate situation requiring immediate precautionary action, i.e. Getting rid of the fish farms now. No time for further study. It might be an unnecessary action but it is about the only thing in front of us that might provide improvement.
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http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145461&ID=all
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145473&ID=all
Thanks for the links! So, comparing 2012 to this year, as of this date:
Early Stewart sockeye run size estimate for this year is 18,000, for 2012 it was 185,000 - a decline of more than 90%!
Early summer run size estimate for this year is 250,000, for 2012 it was 550,000, a decline of 55%!
Summer run size estimate for this year is 600,000, for 2012 it was 1,300,000, a decline of 54%!
In 2012, as of this date, they estimated the late run size to be 250,000. We have no estimate to date for 2016.
I don't know if the 2012 numbers were later revised, but the above contrasts are stark. The water temp at Qualark in 2012 was 18.2 C, vs. 20.6 now, so I don't know that water temps were an issue in 2012, but they sure are now.
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I think that is three out of four years in the cycle where the runs are very low. Even if they start to rebuild it will be a generation before they are back. Seems to me to be a desperate situation requiring immediate precautionary action, i.e. Getting rid of the fish farms now. No time for further study. It might be an unnecessary action but it is about the only thing in front of us that might provide improvement.
I think it is only 2015 and 2016 with low returns, 2013 and 2014 were good (if not as good as expected), although some particular runs (Early Stewart and Chilko, I think), were having trouble in 2014. It would be nice to see all this information in an easy format on the dfo website, but I think that falls in the category of action items from the Cohen Commission report that dfo claims it doesn't have money to perform. Is there any indication that the new government is going to fully fund DFO so it can implement all of the recommendations that it hasn't had the money for?
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Does anyone recall if river conditions were exceptionally poor when the 2012 fish returned? Given the good return of sockeye to the Columbia river, I have a hard time believing it is only ocean conditions that are the problem here - plus the Chilliwack Lake and Baker lake (Skagit river) sockeye runs are doing pretty decent, if somewhat lower than expected.
[/quote]
--Haven't paid much attention to other runs on the columbia but the Osoyoos sockeye was reported to be to low to allow fishing... based on number of returning fish... With all the dams and fish passages they are able to monitor the run very well. The Osoyoos group hit near perfect weather/water temps and as they moved up in a group USA fisheries closed areas or reduced catches to allow them through.
--Not sure the current count but some 155K fish made it to Ossoyos thus allowing for a 10 day rec opening in Osoyoos.
--There was a bit of whining from rec fishers south as they had some delayed opening to allow the Osoyoos fish to pass but for the most part it was well recieved... once explained.
--So sometimes with some luck and good management a small run can get to where it is going.
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Here's the background information that lead up to this Thompson River closure, from the resource manager for Region 3 and 8.
"With the current situation with conservation concerns of Fraser sockeye similar to the Lower Fraser fishery closures, the Thompson River will not open at this time due to impacts on migrating sockeye and environmental conditions projected for the upcoming weeks. A fishery notice will be released momentarily reflecting the closure until further notice which the Dept. will be monitoring the situation closely. The decision guidelines to open or close chinook directed opportunities was highly weighted to any fisheries known to have impacts on sockeye based on historical creel data would not proceed and fisheries with no impacts based on creel data could proceed. Currently the South Thompson, Lower Shuswap and Mable Lake with numerous years of creel data shows no sockeye encounters which opened today, the Thompson creel data collected previously does show impacts on Fraser sockeye which is collected in three locations ( Savona, Juniper beach and Bonaparte) but we do not have any creel information for the section below Goldpan. With no available creel data for that area even though fishers indicate very few impacts, it is still an impact and without creel data to indicate zero impacts we are not able to open the Thompson fishery at this time. I have discussed the situation with the local SFAC regarding the dept. decision process late last week and why Sandy Macdonald is included in this e-mail as he is the co-chair for the Mid Fraser Thompson Okanagan Sport fishery Advisory Committee."
This was the response to this note I wrote a few days ago, see below they certainly are out of touch on this as we have no impact on sockeye at all in this area, some of you may wish to write to them too.
Good evening Barbara and Deb,
I hope the current closure of the Fraser River will not effect the planned opening of the Thompson River for chinnok jacks that is scheduled to open on August 21 for recreational anglers.
Of course most know we have no impact on sockeye stocks there. I have fished this area since the 1970' s and have only hooked one sockeye.
In your management capacity I am sure you will be making the correct decision on this fishery,
Regards,
Chris
Fraser Valley Salmon Society
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And my response back to Dale.
Thanks for the note although I am not pleased to hear this when we have no impact at all below Gold Pan and numerous long time anglers would tell you that including First Nations that fish this area as well with a rod and reel. It is an area that no one bottom bounces like they do in the other areas you mention.
BB is a blight on the recreational fishery and I am sure you are aware of this and that some groups are trying to work with FOC and the Sports Fishery Advisory Board for some time to get this dealt with without success unfortunately.
I and many others are hoping you will be able to re visit this in the very near future and open the fishery shortly that is a traditional fishery for many of us in years past.
I could add more but I am sure you are busy reading numerous e mails on this situation and others for this years salmon run.
I am taken the liberty of including a few key people including directors from the Fraser Valley Salmon Society that are very interested in this file.
I remain hopeful to hear an opening and thanks again for your quick response to my earlier e mail
Kindest regards
Chris
Director and founder of the Fraser Valley Salmon Society since 1984
PS presently in Lytton enjoying the 38.1 temperature, the warmest in Canada yesterday.
heading to Kamloops tomorrow.
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If so inclined this is who you can write to on this file. Dale.Michie@dfo-mpo.gc.ca;
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Is this a joke or you just keep trying stirring the pot?
I'd be very curious to see how you can bounce below Mission, total nonsense.
Also please give us some some sport catch numbers from the banana so we can get a grasp on the scale of that fishery.
As others already stated the Tidal closure has nothing to do with sockeye by-catch by sorties.
Have a nice day.
I didn't mention bb below Mission
Where it is done the usual technique is to toss a large buzz bomb and pull it through a school of porpoising sockeye . While you are right about the banana, I mentioned the Court's and DFO's rationale above.
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Lots of good stuff said BUT...
Can we at least break up sentences and paragraphs.
It's easier to read....
Just a thought 8)
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Lots of good stuff said BUT...
Can we at least break up sentences and paragraphs.
It's easier to read....
Just a thought 8)
sure
why does tidal fraser closed for fishing springs ?
how many b/bs would get any luck in tidal fraser ?
why I have to pay full price for my license and fish between runs ?
when this b/s will stop ?
why I can use bar rig setup with 2 hooks 1 with roe , 1 with shrimp and say im targeting dollys/bulls , and it is ok sometimes / sometimes it is not :) but dfo office says its ok! and it is no fishing for salmon in fraser :)
if you want me to continue let me know , I will do
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sure
why does tidal fraser closed for fishing springs ?
how many b/bs would get any luck in tidal fraser ?
why I have to pay full price for my license and fish between runs ?
when this b/s will stop ?
why I can use bar rig setup with 2 hooks 1 with roe , 1 with shrimp and say im targeting dollys/bulls , and it is ok sometimes / sometimes it is not :) but dfo office says its ok! and it is no fishing for salmon in fraser :)
if you want me to continue let me know , I will do
If you'd take the time to read and try to understand what I and others have contributed to this discussion I think you'd see all of these questions have been addressed. You may not like the answers but being a crank won't change that.
The thing to realize is any one can go fishing, you just can't fish for salmon. If you catch any you have to release them. If a CO or FO happens by you'd better be able to convince them you are not fishing for salmon. It hasn't happened to me since I don't fish the Fraser when it is closed to salmon fishing in summer, but I have heard from others FOs will often ask "how's the trout fishing? " or "hoping to catch a steelhead?". Just don't be clueless and tell them you are actually trying to catch a salmon.
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If you'd take the time to read and try to understand what I and others have contributed to this discussion I think you'd see all of these questions have been addressed. You may not like the answers but being a crank won't change that.
The thing to realize is any one can go fishing, you just can't fish for salmon. If you catch any you have to release them. If a CO or FO happens by you'd better be able to convince them you are not fishing for salmon. It hasn't happened to me since I don't fish the Fraser when it is closed to salmon fishing in summer, but I have heard from others FOs will often ask "how's the trout fishing? " or "hoping to catch a steelhead?". Just don't be clueless and tell them you are actually trying to catch a salmon.
just for u , I wasn't trying to catch salmon , but me and my bud did catch sea run cuttys ... on shrimp .... they were released , but your sarcasm about me trying to catch salmon when its not fishing for salmon is b/s .... I have quite few buds from this forum and sharpshooks , I can spend my time with , and we do all kind of fishing around ..... u show me person who asked my questions , and answers ...
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there is a ridiculous amount of coho in the straight...... So look forward to river coho action, It should be insane this year.
Coho fishing in West Van has been slow so far this year. Can you elaborate on your comment?
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West Van is Burrard inlet, hardly a sure way to judge the fall fishing :). The strait of Georgia is huge, he must be talking about somewhere else he has seen them. Hopefully he is right! West Van has been slow, but there are many around still, just not biting. Keep in mind though that unlike the past 2 years we had some good rains in June and a good 500-1000 minimum got up to the hatchery, unlike previous years where they got to mill about in the estuary until Sept rained.
yeah , rainy days were saver for those little buggers to make it up :) I`m really happy they made it , but sad to see gong show at cable pool trying to snag those "heroes" . I think cable pool should be shut down for fishing...
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Thanks Blair for you input and taking time to discuss with Linda this issue .
The last part of your letter is full of innuendoes :
"Weather is going to be very hot. I think that i will go Swimming at Centennial Park in Tsawwassen. When there is a low tide .. it's fun to walk out and swim in the little pools. There warm like a Hot tub."
Whatever ,if you're planning on sacrificing yourself in the name of the cause and date Linda I applaud it ;)
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If so inclined this is who you can write to on this file. Dale.Michie@dfo-mpo.gc.ca;
I met Dale's supervisor, Richard on the Nicola River yesterday while he and other staff where fishing for brood stock and doing a mark re capture program, will have some video I filmed up in a day or so.
Of course I had an opportunity to discuss the Thompson River jack chinook salmon fishery first hand and asked them to re visit the closure as soon as possible.
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Does the acoustic counter Linda is mentioning has an online report?
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As of right now, DFO has very limited authority to implement restrictions on gear and does not have the authority, for example, to compel fishers to only use bar rigs.
Can someone clarify this sentence for me. So the various restrictions referred to on this DFO page (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/law-loi/restrictions-eng.html) ie. single barbless hooks in the tidal fraser, bait bans etc are not implemented by the DFO? If not them, then who exactly has that responsibility/authority?
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Can someone clarify this sentence for me. So the various restrictions referred to on this DFO page (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/law-loi/restrictions-eng.html) ie. single barbless hooks in the tidal fraser, bait bans etc are not implemented by the DFO? If not them, then who exactly has that responsibility/authority?
We have been trying to get this done for a long time, i have and still donot understand their reasoning, I wonder if they do themselves?
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Perhaps it is our Provincial Government who can put in place gear restrictions. When you look at the requirement for single barbless hooks to be used in all streams in region 2, it's from the BC Freshwater Regulations. Bait bans on specific flows are also listed in the Provincial regulations. DFO is Federal, so maybe that's the issue???
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Perhaps it is our Provincial Government who can put in place gear restrictions. When you look at the requirement for single barbless hooks to be used in all streams in region 2, it's from the BC Freshwater Regulations. Bait bans on specific flows are also listed in the Provincial regulations. DFO is Federal, so maybe that's the issue???
That's been mentioned before. In non tidal waters, i.e. the Fraser above Mission bridge. For example Linda Stevens response to Blair above:
As of right now, DFO has very limited authority to implement restrictions on gear and does not have the authority, for example, to compel fishers to only use bar rigs.
Of course DFO could but does not put that sort of regulation into place in the Fraser below Mission so that's a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black.
DFO and MOE have been trying to improve coordination of announcements and regulations - I suspect one thing involved is the wish to allow the sturgeon fishery - which probably probably produces more $ for local guides than Chinook - to continue during a salmon closure. Other fisheries such as for Bull trout, trout and steelhead are marginal to non-existent at this time of year.
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nice call , instead of fishing for fish that majority of "fishermen" they targeting for and got their gear and stamps , you kinda giving green light to them to target species that are endangered , such as sea run cutties / bulls / sturgeon . That does make a lot of sense now . BUT think , how many of those who already spent $ on gear will go to tackle store and get proper gear for sturgeon ?! DING and DONG ?! how many of them got any idea of c&r ?! or its a challenge we will see a few years after ?! c`mon , be realistic lol .
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this is just trolling again - you are simply trying to provoke an argument.
If you think sturgeon are endangered then you should have a serious problem with how that fishery is managed and the guide industry that focuses on it - but you can only it in the context of the salmon closure - narcissism pure and simple. :'( (tears your logic is so bad it makes me weep)
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I didn't name just sturgeon alone ....
"Never force conversation on a stranger. They are probably there just to fish and find solitude. If you ask a question or 2 and receive only answers...and no attempt to keep the conversation going, gracefully follow the implied suggestion and leave the angler alone"
so u cant force stranger for talk . but I u do ....
what is your point ?! if 1 thing you suggested got no luck , look at 2thing ? :)
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anyone really concerned about bulls & cutties wouldn't support bait fishing in the Fraser what so ever!
Many of the people fishing there will be catching & chub, pike minnow suckers & sculpins
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don't know if u knew , but sh is trout in tidal waters
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anyone really concerned about bulls & cutties wouldn't support bait fishing in the Fraser what so ever!
Many of the people fishing there will be catching & chub, pike minnow suckers & sculpins
dfo said I can target those
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this is just trolling again - you are simply trying to provoke an argument.
If you think sturgeon are endangered then you should have a serious problem with how that fishery is managed and the guide industry that focuses on it - but you can only it in the context of the salmon closure - narcissism pure and simple. :'( (tears your logic is so bad it makes me weep)
Not trying to get in the middle of this "conversation," but are you trying to argue that Fraser River Sturgeon are not endangered? They are officially listed as endangered for the entire length of the Fraser and its tributaries with the exception of the Lower where they are "threatened!" Every species listed is threatened or endangered, and all for same reason. It is not over fishing, it is habitat loss. They have no where to spawn, the water is too warm and the ocean is a mess. But instead of trying to actually do something about these things the powers that be go after fishermen; with sporties being the easiest target. Now there is no denying that at a certain point fishing moves from a compensatory loss to an additive but that is only after the ability for survival is already very low.
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Not trying to get in the middle of this "conversation," but are you trying to argue that Fraser River Sturgeon are not endangered? They are officially listed as endangered for the entire length of the Fraser and its tributaries with the exception of the Lower where they are "threatened!" Every species listed is threatened or endangered, and all for same reason. It is not over fishing, it is habitat loss. They have no where to spawn, the water is too warm and the ocean is a mess. But instead of trying to actually do something about these things the powers that be go after fishermen; with sporties being the easiest target. Now there is no denying that at a certain point fishing moves from a compensatory loss to an additive but that is only after the ability for survival is already very low.
u cant argue with "old grumpy man" who had his point from years and years ago ... he still lives in his own world ... he tries to argue with knowledge he has , but update service is temporary not working ... it`s just waste of time .... I`ll get my gear and go for species as per him are not endangered .
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Sea run cutthroat are not endangered.
Bull trout and dolly varden are definitely not endangered, and I believe they even had their threatened rating removed recently.
Steelhead are only threatened or endangered in certain systems - and those would be minimally present right now, and are rarely targeted by anglers.
Go ahead and fish for those 3 if you want. If you're tossing a large glob of roe on a chinook sized bar rod - I would ticket you as a CO or DFO officer, because it is not justifiable. If you have a 4-8 pound rod in the holder and 6 pound test on for the bulls and cutthroat, then fine. Chucking spoons and flies is the most selective way to fish for those fish anyway. I agree with Ralph that if you are really concerned about the well being of the trout and dollies, you wouldn't bottom fish bait.
Sturgeon are listed as threatened, but the fishery that takes place has been shown to not cause a negative impact on the population. The population of sturgeon in the lower fraser has increased in the last few years, and are doing quite well. The tagging program that guides carry out is also a bonus and helps research take place on these fish. Boycotting that fishery is useless. I don't necessarily agree with catching the same old fish over and over, but it obviously hasn't caused significant damage and has led to positive things.
In the end... leave all the freaking fish alone right now. The water is hot, and numbers of particular fish are low. It's about time people understand that we don't need to be the ones to kill that last fish. Stop looking for loopholes and go do some different fisheries - it's a good way to expand your horizons. No one NEEDS to fish, and if we truly care, then everyone would stop their whining and would hang up the salmon rods for 1/3 of the poor return years (this year), and wait for the fall rains and plentiful hatchery runs to show up! It's really not a big deal in the end (and you'll forget about it soon enough), and maybe, just maybe, the fish will come back to fish-able numbers in the future rather than going extinct and you NEVER having that opportunity again.
This has probably been the most frustrating year I've ever witnessed on multiple forums and social media. Everyone wants their right to kill, even though there is nothing left. Everyone is arguing about that last slice of the pie that has disappeared from under their noses while they b**ched and moaned to each other about how it's theirs and how they have rights to it. People are willingly saying they will fish anyway and break the law because it's their right - with no regard to that one doe/fish they might accidentally catch, stress out and kill - which could produce 10's or hundreds of offspring. Every single fish does matter at this point - whether you believe that or not is your personal problem. Time to stop all this useless banter. It only gives all sport fisherman a bad name in the eyes of the general public (it's even giving me a bad taste in my mouth towards "rec" anglers). Stop killing the fish and go volunteer your fishing time to do some restoration work, stream fertilizations, brood capture, tagging programs, stream surveys in the fall.
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Keep it closed for a couple years. Enough is enough. This goes for all communities that are their to harvest salmon.
Should this not happen open a million hatcheries like on the Columbia.
Its time for the government to own up to past mistakes and do whatever is neccessary.
Protect the fish.
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Bull trout and Sturgeon are on the Species at Risk list. The knowledge base on Cutthroat is pretty meager but most indices show the population in the Fraser is at best 5,000 to 6,000 wild fish mostly from above Mission. Both of these are required to released. My comments concerned bait fishing. A very many studies show the c&r mortality with these fish when caught with still fished bait is in the 40% to 50% range which enough to cause population decline if encounters are frequent enough. There are very few wild cutties left below Mission thanks to over fishing and habitat loss.
Anyone who's knowledge exceeds a simple ability to read the regs knows there are not a lot of either fish currently in the lower river - Bulls are in their spawning streams, cutts mostly in the chuck or in big lakes like the Pitt.
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dfo said I can target those
The regulations have to take into account the lowest common denominator of anglers - are you in that group? ;)
most anglers who have advanced beyond just reading and memorizing the regulations will adjust their angling and methods consistent with their concern for all fish species and their own ethics and values.
Have a nice day!
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The regulations have to take into account the lowest common denominator of anglers - are you in that group? ;)
most anglers who have advanced beyond just reading and memorizing the regulations will adjust their angling and methods consistent with their concern for all fish species and their own ethics and values.
Have a nice day!
--For sure... just like minimum code and legal obligation. If you know better you should follow the best practices.
--Take time to know what the intent of the rules are. The dates and closures are best guess guidelines. If the intent is to have the river closed during high water temps which affects live release then don't fish during high water temps.
--Often the rule or law will be a best guess date... like on the kettle being closed August 1st which is usually when low water and high temperature occur.
--If the intent is to allow for a specific run to pass and you notice that significant by-catch is occuring because of the method or location you are fishing (even if the area is open) then STOP FISHING.
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u cant argue with "old grumpy man" who had his point from years and years ago ... he still lives in his own world ... he tries to argue with knowledge he has , but update service is temporary not working ... it`s just waste of time .... I`ll get my gear and go for species as per him are not endangered .
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say your probably to young to vote hrenya. which means the grumpy old man is trumping you with experience.
just because your allowed to do something doesn't mean you should though. it's something you will learn in life..... with experience. ;)
fishing bait for cutties and dollies aint exactly the most humane way to catch em per se. they are wild fish and the water is warm. there are other species or even things that you can be doing than deep hooking wild fish....... there's carp in the sloughs close to where you are already fishing and bass in burnaby.
put that youthful enthusiasm to work and hook a carp on the fly. tons of fun.
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You are right , im young , and I DONT vote . BUT I have MY opinion and my points , which I think should be treated not like "idiot or troll" cuz this is forum for discussion .
carp too smart to catch .... ocean fishing is pretty cool , soles/flounders/greenlings/perches :)) of cuz I`m not fishing fraser now lol , I gave it up and member of FWR teaching me how to target those ones :) so up to date - whoever will try to tell me that "steelhead is fish of thousands casts" should try flounders/soles LOL .
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. BUT I have MY opinion and my points , which I think should be treated not like "idiot or troll" cuz this is forum for discussion .
whiner!
rotflmao
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whiner!
rotflmao
admit it , u r stubborn , and u wont take it from anyone else :)
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FURTHER UPDATES: Correspondence with DFO
The closure to recreational chinook fishing on the Fraser River is due to sockeye being caught while targeting on chinook. Although the sockeye can be released and the release mortality rate is low when you take into account the overall size of the fishery, there simply was not enough allowable impacts at this time.
There have been several suggestions on alternative measures to take in years such as this. For example, some have suggested a leader length restriction.
As of right now, DFO has very limited authority to implement restrictions on gear and does not have the authority, for example, to compel fishers to only use bar rigs.
The sockeye migration is being watched closely. Once the main stocks of concern are through the area, a re-opening of the chinook directed fishery will be considered.
We do understand the importance and the value of the local fishery.
Linda Stevens
___________________________
Fisheries and Oceans Canada | Pêches et Océans Canada
Pacific Fishery Licence Unit
200-401 Burrard Street, Vancouver, BC V6C 3S4
Telephone | Téléphone: 1-877-535-7307
Email | Courriel: fishing-peche@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
I find the statement made from Linda Stevens very perplexing considering that in Eastern Canada, Atlantic salmon are indeed regulated by DFO as they are on the Pacific coast. Yet on the eastern coast, salmon fishing is fly fishing only. Seems to me know one wants to take on the time consuming job of getting these restrictive regulations in place.
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I'm thinking it's more of a practicability issue for DFO. Sure, they could put in gear restrictions. But then they'll need the resources (human and fiscal) to enforce the rules. Plus, there's the challenge of the "grey" areas and ensuring that the language around any "regulations" truly meet the intent and are not misinterpreted down the road. All of this for a few weeks while the species of concern migrates through the system. It's much easier just to shut the whole system down to salmon fishing from an enforcement point of view. This closure does not affect me at all as I do not fish the Fraser when the sockeye are not open to retention (i.e. since 2014). But I do understand the frustration for people who do chose to fish selectively for chinook. As for the "flossers", you got what you deserved. :D :D :D
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BKK and FFM , I do agree that all the above is issue for NON-tidal fraser , try fish tidal for sockeye or springs . with bar rig and leader over 1 foot , gl , untangling :)
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Any thoughts on when the primary portion of the sockeye runs will be through the area? I've already bought tickets to fly out on the 4th of September and if the Fraser is closed then I am going down the Columbia. Hard to make those plans given the current conditions. This is very difficult to plan around.
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My guess there is a 50-50 (at best) chance that the river may open in a week or so. The wild card is water temperature which is quite high for this time of year. Even at that expect a closure soon after the Labor Day - if they are consistent with previous years it will close the 6th. If lucky they may keep it open for a few days past that though the interior 1st Nations and others wil be looking for a closure to protect the interior coho.
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My guess there is a 50-50 (at best) chance that the river may open in a week or so. The wild card is water temperature which is quite high for this time of year. Even at that expect a closure soon after the Labor Day - if they are consistent with previous years it will close the 6th. If lucky they may keep it open for a few days past that though the interior 1st Nations and others wil be looking for a closure to protect the interior coho.
Looking at the notices last year, I'm not seeing where they closed the non-tidal Fraser. Do you have a link? FN0990 posted on September 4th, 2015 indicated it was open for retention of chinook through the end of the year.
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I think I am going to form a web based regulations consulting business. It's posted all over the place here and on other websites plus on DFO.
Here it is:
http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=187080&ID=all
Effective dates: one hour after sunset on Thursday, August 11, 2016 until
further notice.
Waters: The Fraser River in Region 2 (from the downstream side of the CPR
Bridge at Mission, BC to the downstream side of the Alexandra Bridge).
Management Measure: Fishing for salmon is not permitted.
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I think I am going to form a web based regulations consulting business.
Business will be slow if you call your customers "grasshopper", "smart guy", "chuckles" or "whiner'
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If the river reopens in late August as they did last year once majority of the sockeye salmon pass through the Lower Fraser River, it will remain open throughout September for chinook salmon retention, like last year. For quite a few years now, SFAC has recommended to DFO that while Interior coho salmon management measures like bait ban should be in place, fishing for salmon and retention of chinook salmon should still be allowed throughout the red zone, and they have followed through with that request.
Whether it will reopen in a week or so from now is still to be seen. At the current in-season estimate of total Fraser River sockeye salmon, the late run may also need to be protected, and the runtime of that stock goes well into September.
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I think I am going to form a web based regulations consulting business. It's posted all over the place here and on other websites plus on DFO.
Here it is:
http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=187080&ID=all
Well if you were going to form a web based regulations consulting business you probably should get your facts straight.
You stated "My guess there is a 50-50 (at best) chance that the river may open in a week or so. The wild card is water temperature which is quite high for this time of year. Even at that expect a closure soon after the Labor Day - if they are consistent with previous years it will close the 6th. If lucky they may keep it open for a few days past that though the interior 1st Nations and others wil be looking for a closure to protect the interior coho."
Unless I am completely misunderstanding your post, you indicate that on or around the 6th of September last year or previous years, they closed the Fraser. I went to last year's notices and saw no such closure. I'm not asking for this year's closure, I'm asking for you to support your statement that if they are consistent with previous years it will close shortly after Labor Day. I didn't see it last year so was asking for proof of that.
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If the river reopens in late August as they did last year once majority of the sockeye salmon pass through the Lower Fraser River, it will remain open throughout September for chinook salmon retention, like last year. For quite a few years now, SFAC has recommended to DFO that while Interior coho salmon management measures like bait ban should be in place, fishing for salmon and retention of chinook salmon should still be allowed throughout the red zone, and they have followed through with that request.
Whether it will reopen in a week or so from now is still to be seen. At the current in-season estimate of total Fraser River sockeye salmon, the late run may also need to be protected, and the runtime of that stock goes well into September.
Thanks Rodney. Do you think there is any chance that they give advanced notice or will they do the same thing they did at the start of August and provide notice the day before it opened? It is really difficult to make plans that will require hotels, buying fishing licenses, getting transportation, etc. when they do this all last minute. I'm sure the guides hate this as people from out of the area can't make any type of plans and if they open it last minute nobody can plan travel that late.
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Ok, I found in 2011 I found FN0863 which stated
"Non-tidal waters of the Fraser River - from the confluence with Sawmill Creek
to the Alexandra Bridge
Effective 00:01 hours, September 19, 2011 until one hour before 23:59 hours
Friday, December 31, 2011, you may not fish for salmon."
I don't really have more time to go further back in the notices but that was the only closure to the Fraser I noticed.
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Thanks Rodney. Do you think there is any chance that they give advanced notice or will they do the same thing they did at the start of August and provide notice the day before it opened? It is really difficult to make plans that will require hotels, buying fishing licenses, getting transportation, etc. when they do this all last minute. I'm sure the guides hate this as people from out of the area can't make any type of plans and if they open it last minute nobody can plan travel that late.
Based on how they've operated in the past two years, I highly doubt that there will be an advanced notice. It'll be announced the day before probably. We've gone from a two-way communication where I'd get lots of information to help whoever need it, to a one-way communication where nobody at the department cares to share any development. We've been pointing this out for awhile now, unlike other sectors, recreational fishing openings need to be announced earlier so people coming from out of town like yourself can actually plan your trip.
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Ok, I found in 2011 I found FN0863 which stated
"Non-tidal waters of the Fraser River - from the confluence with Sawmill Creek
to the Alexandra Bridge
Effective 00:01 hours, September 19, 2011 until one hour before 23:59 hours
Friday, December 31, 2011, you may not fish for salmon."
I don't really have more time to go further back in the notices but that was the only closure to the Fraser I noticed.
fall closures have been in place since 1999 and generally run from the day after Labour Day until around Thanksgiving.
for the last few cycles they have had a limited opening to allow fishing for Pinks
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Based on how they've operated in the past two years, I highly doubt that there will be an advanced notice. It'll be announced the day before probably. We've gone from a two-way communication where I'd get lots of information to help whoever need it, to a one-way communication where nobody at the department cares to share any development. We've been pointing this out for awhile now, unlike other sectors, recreational fishing openings need to be announced earlier so people coming from out of town like yourself can actually plan your trip.
Sucks because that will likely mean I will have to plan on going to the Columbia instead and it will mean the loss of any income I would generate, licenses (I haven't bought a BC license in a couple years because of the timing and this year doesn't look any different), food, parking at island 22 fees, etc. Granted, I don't probably contribute a lot to the economy but I'm sure I'm not the only one that will have to change plans or can't make plans because of their lack of communication.
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for the last few cycles they have had a limited opening to allow fishing for Pinks
You must be looking at different notices than I am looking at or are too stubborn to admit you were wrong. Except for the one closure I found back in 2011, not only was there fishing allowed, retention of chinook was allowed. You are going to have to provide proof.
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Based on how they've operated in the past two years, I highly doubt that there will be an advanced notice. It'll be announced the day before probably. We've gone from a two-way communication where I'd get lots of information to help whoever need it, to a one-way communication where nobody at the department cares to share any development. We've been pointing this out for awhile now, unlike other sectors, recreational fishing openings need to be announced earlier so people coming from out of town like yourself can actually plan your trip.
So true Rod :( Communications Branch in DFO has gone from bad to terrible in just a few years.
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Business will be slow if you call your customers "grasshopper", "smart guy", "chuckles" or "whiner'
"s-a-r-c-a-s-m"
but thanks the same -
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Hey I've just lived and fished here for close to 60 years. I am sure you know much more based as you are in Tennessee, the Salmon Capital of the World.
Well if you were going to form a web based regulations consulting business you probably should get your facts straight.
You stated "My guess there is a 50-50 (at best) chance that the river may open in a week or so. The wild card is water temperature which is quite high for this time of year. Even at that expect a closure soon after the Labor Day - if they are consistent with previous years it will close the 6th. If lucky they may keep it open for a few days past that though the interior 1st Nations and others wil be looking for a closure to protect the interior coho."
Unless I am completely misunderstanding your post, you indicate that on or around the 6th of September last year or previous years, they closed the Fraser. I went to last year's notices and saw no such closure. I'm not asking for this year's closure, I'm asking for you to support your statement that if they are consistent with previous years it will close shortly after Labor Day. I didn't see it last year so was asking for proof of that.
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Hey I've just lived and fished here for close to 60 years. I am sure you know much more based as you are in Tennessee, the Salmon Capital of the World.
Ok, so you disagree with Rod even and can't produce any proof and then I'm supposed to just bow down to your superior experience? I had no problem finding close to a decade worth of fishing notices that told me you didn't know what you were talking about. I could go back further if I had time. Maybe you have just missed out on all kinds of fishing in the fall because you believed the Fraser was closed. Or maybe you are just being a worthless troll. Or perhaps doing internet searches are something you don't understand how to do and your memory is fading a little bit with all that experience. Either way, I hope nobody else on this site accepts your expertise in the rules as you have proven you are ignorant of what the regulations have said. I welcome you proving your stance to me but until then, realize you have absolutely no credibility.
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In 2011, DFO kept the non-tidal Fraser River open for salmon fishing and retention of pink, chinook and chum salmon. In addition, they allowed sockeye salmon retention upstream from the Vedder River mouth, giving anglers opportunities to keep sockeye while protecting Cultus Lake sockeye salmon which are coming through downstream from the Vedder River mouth. The sockeye salmon retention opportunities were available until September 19th, while retention of chinook, pink, chum never closed. Once the interior coho salmon run timing is over, the river also opened up for hatchery coho salmon retention in early October.
As mentioned in my previous post, chinook salmon retention in the Lower Fraser River has been opened throughout September for quite a few years now, due to the requests SFAC had made for many years prior to these management changes.
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fall closures have been in place since 1999 and generally run from the day after Labour Day until around Thanksgiving.
for the last few cycles they have had a limited opening to allow fishing for Pinks
Again, what are your sources because that is completely different than what I am seeing and hearing
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In 2011, DFO kept the non-tidal Fraser River open for salmon fishing and retention of pink, chinook and chum salmon. In addition, they allowed sockeye salmon retention upstream from the Vedder River mouth, giving anglers opportunities to keep sockeye while protecting Cultus Lake sockeye salmon which are coming through downstream from the Vedder River mouth. The sockeye salmon retention opportunities were available until September 19th, while retention of chinook, pink, chum never closed. Once the interior coho salmon run timing is over, the river also opened up for hatchery coho salmon retention in early October.
As mentioned in my previous post, chinook salmon retention in the Lower Fraser River has been opened throughout September for quite a few years now, due to the requests SFAC had made for many years prior to these management changes.
That is consistent with what I am seeing in the notices except for that one section of the river closing in 2011 for everything. That was the only closure after September I could find.
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Rod and you are right in that chinook opening have been provided in September for farther back than I recall. As I said there have been openings in odd numbered years when the Pinks run until at least 2007. In 2006 the River was open only below the mouth of the Harrison from Sept 7 until Oct 9th
Anyway it's hard to know what DFO may do this year. There's no guarantee it will open at all. Last year on the Squamish I chatted with a fellow from England who had come to fish chinook on the Fraser and it was closed. He was pissed and said he'd likely never come back but what was I say? In low water high temperature years they are closing all the salmon rivers in the Maritimes now & last year most rivers on the coast were closed until mid-Sept even though we had cool warm weather from the last half of August on.
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(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/FRSA_Letter_01_zps52r3xt2h.jpg)
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Rod - what is the specific 20km of river the FRSA is proposing for closure?
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Didnt the DFO state in other communications that they have essentially no authority to impose limitations on fishing methods and gear restrictions? It would then follow to wonder if they have the authority to close specific sections, and what landmarks would even define such sections?
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I like the wording of "request", rather than the "demand" verbage of the earlier letter, and I appreciate the proposed compromise of the spot closure. Nice work, fellas.
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Didnt the DFO state in other communications that they have essentially no authority to impose limitations on fishing methods and gear restrictions? It would then follow to wonder if they have the authority to close specific sections, and what landmarks would even define such sections?
I don't know about small areas but in looking at notices released going back a number of years, there was a time I think in 2011 (around the end of September) where they closed down a section of the Fraser because of coho till I think the end of the year.
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Spot closures may reduce the overall volume of anglers participating in this method of fishing, but many will just go and search out new water to continue their practice of non-selective fishing in areas of non closure.
Such a closure will only lead to new trails being blazed, and Grandpa's machete will once again be un-sheathed. >:(
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Spot closures are nonsense. They won't stop BB-ing. They just makes it less effective. It will still be more massively easier than bar fishing.
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Spot closures are nonsense. They won't stop BB-ing. They just makes it less effective. It will still be more massively easier than bar fishing.
I also disagree with spot closures. I like to bar fish near popular BB spots so this would affect me.
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I also disagree with spot closures. I like to bar fish near popular BB spots so this would affect me.
I do like spot closures , cuz u can`t bb in tidal and current conditions affect me .
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(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/FRSA_Letter_01_zps52r3xt2h.jpg)
The rec sector needs to be working with FN on issues we can mostly agree on. Fish farming and seal management could be a good start...and if we ever had any doubts see what footage Alex Morton got with 10 minutes on a pen...I ain't no biologist but one look at those farm fish and it isn't hard to tell that they are f...d up...lots of issues for wild fish but this can't be ignored and our sector should be pushing much harder to stop it...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzqvfpvc7A
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Spot closures are nonsense. They won't stop BB-ing. They just makes it less effective. It will still be more massively easier than bar fishing.
Nonsense ? , I think your speaking nonsense . I believe the masses of flossers will give it up , however there will be a few bad apples out . Some will be tying their 5 foot leaders for the fall fishery .....................I'm all for spot closures . Not my first picnic as they say .Or second , on the Fraser .
Remember way back when, DFO requested to stay off Spaghetti bar ? . Started an anchoring frenzy there lol .
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Nonsense ? , I think your speaking nonsense . I believe the masses of flossers will give it up , however there will be a few bad apples out . Some will be tying their 5 foot leaders for the fall fishery .....................I'm all for spot closures . Not my first picnic as they say .Or second , on the Fraser .
Remember way back when, DFO requested to stay off Spaghetti bar ? . Started an anchoring frenzy there lol .
Nonsense right back at ya. Snagging is illegal, enforce the existing laws.
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--Why doesn't the guide quota come out of a commercial rather than out of a recreational fishing quota... or at the least be added supernumery to the recreational quota.
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Nonsense right back at ya. Snagging is illegal, enforce the existing laws.
agree , let`s start with artificial baits such as yarn :) lets make bait fishing only ... or gear like spoons/spinners ....
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? What's wrong with wool?
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With 4 more days to go till the end of August the Albion catch for Chinook doesn't look bad at all.
Oh... And there are three Ho's in the nets as well this week. Hooray!
(https://s9.postimg.org/foif7mglr/Chinook_August.png)
Coho:
(https://s22.postimg.org/7ace0xpep/Coho_August.png)
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? What's wrong with wool?
Nothing. Some people associate using wool with flossing.
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Spot closures are nonsense. They won't stop BB-ing. They just makes it less effective. It will still be more massively easier than bar fishing.
So you think spot closures won't effect the masses to all return ?. Maybe they will find new ground . Without access to these places , and I think we know these areas well , they will least likely to come back . I think most do not own a boat ,so access to anywhere will prove to difficult and they won't return this year maybe . We need to do something and a spot closure is better than nothing .
So It's not nonesence , it's affective and that's a point in the right direction .
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agree , let`s start with artificial baits such as yarn :) lets make bait fishing only ... or gear like spoons/spinners ....
What? That doesn't make sense. Yarn is not the problem.
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What? That doesn't make sense. Yarn is not the problem.
yarn is the cheapest "bait" , and as regs state "no empty hook allowed" .
u think if regs would change to "gear , bar fishing , fly fishing only or float set up" and those the ones who bb will snag few times a loose quite a few $ , wont consider that it is cheaper to buy fish ?! Go check cap after rain or cable pool , couple guys with spoons , couple fly fishing , few guys float fishing and ARMY with lead hook and a wool . This is so sad ...
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"no empty hook allowed" .
correctly called a bare hook...but carry on! ;D
Also as a dyed in the wool (pun intended) fly fishing purist, I can tell you the only difference between a 'fly' and wool on an 'empty hook' is 200+ years of snobbery. 8)
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Also as a dyed in the wool (pun intended) fly fishing purist, I can tell you the only difference between a 'fly' and wool on an 'empty hook' is 200+ years of snobbery. 8)
Re-quoted for awesomeness!
@AaronWilde, if you were to fish for pinks on the fly fishing only section of the Campbell River, you might revise your opinion; sure it may not be intentional (sometimes), but it can be difficult not to when you need to get the fly down in front of their faces.
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correctly called a bare hook...but carry on! ;D
Also as a dyed in the wool (pun intended) fly fishing purist, I can tell you the only difference between a 'fly' and wool on an 'empty hook' is 200+ years of snobbery. 8)
oh wow ... if that`s the only thing u r pointing , can I assume that u agreed with the rest ?! :)
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Except that I think most fly fisherman aren't trying to floss or snag with a fly, whereas wool on an empty hook may have malicious intent.. lol. Used legally wool can work too, like a fly!
MOST is the key Aaron :) remember pink season and fly fishing guys flossing them with sinking lines ? :) that was brutal to watch :(
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In my direct experience you can snag/floss fish with most any rig. I've never been able to do that with either dry flies or wet flies swung on a floating line. I did line a chum on a swung floating line once but then it was a "willing participant". It rolled on the surface mouth open and just happened to catch the fly line betwixt the corners of it's jaws, about 30 feet from the fly. It was quite the task trying to pull that line through the big buck's teeth down to the fly & Mr Dog didn't like it much so a hook up never happened. Fly lines are not 'efficient flossing tools' contrary to the sweet dreams of some gear fisherman, though long leaders can be. Can't equal a 3oz bouncer and 15 feet of leader tho'. ;D
Some guys won't even fish flies in moving water with a fly & prefer slower places like the Harrison or various sloughs as they are afraid they might get their hands dirty. Last fall I found circle hooks reduced foul hook ups dramatically.
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What does fly fishing gibberish have to do with salmon closures :o ;D . Shouldn't that be in the Fly Fishing Cafe section ;)
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What does a bulk of this thread have to with fishing closure and updates?
This thread went off course a while ago.
Interesting input none the less! ;)
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In my direct experience you can snag/floss fish with most any rig. I've never been able to do that with either dry flies or wet flies swung on a floating line. I did line a chum on a swung floating line once but then it was a "willing participant". It rolled on the surface mouth open and just happened to catch the fly line betwixt the corners of it's jaws, about 30 feet from the fly. It was quite the task trying to pull that line through the big buck's teeth down to the fly & Mr Dog didn't like it much so a hook up never happened. Fly lines are not 'efficient flossing tools' contrary to the sweet dreams of some gear fisherman, though long leaders can be. Can't equal a 3oz bouncer and 15 feet of leader tho'. ;D
Some guys won't even fish flies in moving water with a fly & prefer slower places like the Harrison or various sloughs as they are afraid they might get their hands dirty. Last fall I found circle hooks reduced foul hook ups dramatically.
While I agree that fly fishing is now way to snag/floss on the Fraser on smaller streams, say up the size of the C/V, it can be quite effective (barring dry flies of course). The problem isn't the ones equipment, it is what you intend to do with it.
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DFO's reason to shut down the recreational sector at this stage of the sockeye run is really unnecessary and unjustified. They are saying that even a single sockeye lost by the sporties is not worth risking so they shut down the entire creational fishing for that. Yet at this late in the game of sockeye run where they already know this is a low cycle, the test nets are continuing. Just the Albion nets alone have 50 sockeyes killed in the last few days together and 560+ since August 1st. Be real. Considering that the mortality rate is so low, 1 in more than 100, sporties will have to hook 50,000 sockeyes accidentally as a by catch in the last few days and 500,000+ sockeyes since August 1st to equal to what a single test net is doing to the stock. That is too far fetched a number of sockeye hooked by sporties, even taking into bb activity. So why it is more important for science at this late stage where it is already decided to have no fishing at all by all sector to risk killing more sockeye. Are the nets and whatever meaningless result of statistics (because it is already fact we have a low run) that more important to the scientists than risking sinking the sport fishing industry which according to Fred is worth 100s of millions to the economy and many related businesses are being hurt? Shut down all the darn nets now if DFO is really down to not risking one more sockeye for their so called conservation concern. There is still the sonar at Mission Bridge and the fish ladders at Hell's Gate to help them gauge the run. There is no need for more killings by test nets. If they just shut down one test net, it will be enough sockeye saved to justify opening the Chinook fishery which has next to nothing impact on the sockeye stock.
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DFO's reason to shut down the recreational sector at this stage of the sockeye run is really unnecessary and unjustified. They are saying that even a single sockeye lost by the sporties is not worth risking so they shut down the entire creational fishing for that. Yet at this late in the game of sockeye run where they already know this is a low cycle, the test nets are continuing. Just the Albion nets alone have 50 sockeyes killed in the last few days together. Be real. Considering that the mortality rate is so low, 1 in more than 100, sporties will have to hook 50,000 sockeyes accidentally as a by catch to equal to what the test nets are doing to the stock. So why it is more important for science at this late stage where it is already decided to have no fishing at all by all sector to risk killing more sockeye. Are the nets and whatever meaningless result of statistics (because it is already fact we have a low run) that more important to the scientists than risking sinking the sport fishing industry which according to Fred is worth 100s of millions to the economy and many related businesses are being hurt? Shut down all the darn nets now if DFO is really down to not risking one more sockeye for their so called conservation concern. There is still the sonar at Mission Bridge and the fish ladders at Hell's Gate to help them gauge the run. There is no need for more killings by test nets. If they just shut down one test net, it will be enough sockeye saved to justify opening the Chinook fishery which has next to nothing impact on the sockeye stock.
First, I believe they do DNA testing on the fish caught in the test nets to determine destination (which tributary they are travelling to). I know they do on some of them. Hard to do that at the sonar and fish ladders without catching the fish there.
Second, and this is probably the most important point, I fully believe DFO knows if they open the sports fisheries up, the FN nets will be in the rivers and a large number of the last little bit of sockeye coming in will disappear from the system. If they keep the whole thing closed, maybe some of these will make it. If they open sports fisheries for anything, no matter the spot closures, gear limit, anything, you will have nets back in the system. Even using the larger mesh, by-catch of sockeye is almost guaranteed.
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But it has been said many times nets are in the river after dark anyway. Also, by removing the eyes and ears of the sporties from the river, there will be a lot less people helping DFO to spot for illegal nets and report them. The conservation concern is for sockeye, not Chinook, and anyone netting sockeye should be prosecuted. Native's right to food fish is ranked second to the conservation mandate of DFO. If DFO can't enforce that rule against parties who target the endangered species, then what is DFO doing as an organization? It's existence is meaningless except to use up license fees for their fat salary and pension. Again the DNA analysis is to provide for an info for the scientists. Is that going to make any difference? The run is already deemed the worst on record and DFO say every fish now counts. So why the need of the scientists is more important as if they haven't enough info to risk the stock survival? Will that info benefit anyone at this stage of the crisis?
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"Sporties" have become infamous by reporting nets when in fact there were none. I emphasize this is a fact.
While some poaching may be taking place at night - likely some illegal flossing is happening as well.
I would like to see DFO justify the scientific information they get from the test fisheries in a disastrous like this one - it is the lowest on record.
Likewise I'd like to see some "Sporties" drop the pose. The value of the fishery is probably 1/10th of what some have claimed and that would be optimistic. Fact is I've looked around and there is no substantive documented support for the $100 million + per year value figure. Even if the revenue stream was that high the expenses have to be subtracted. Plus a lot of that money flows out of the country.
We have a right to fish for sure - stop crying in your coffee and go fish somewhere else if the Fraser is closed and you're so desperate for a fix.
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"Sporties" have become infamous by reporting nets when in fact there were none. I emphasize this is a fact.
While some poaching may be taking place at night - likely some illegal flossing is happening as well.
I would like to see DFO justify the scientific information they get from the test fisheries in a disastrous like this one - it is the lowest on record.
Likewise I'd like to see some "Sporties" drop the pose. The value of the fishery is probably 1/10th of what some have claimed and that would be optimistic. Fact is I've looked around and there is no substantive documented support for the $100 million + per year value figure. Even if the revenue stream was that high the expenses have to be subtracted. Plus a lot of that money flows out of the country.
We have a right to fish for sure - stop crying in your coffee and go fish somewhere else if the Fraser is closed and you're so desperate for a fix.
Amen. You would think that the same people who capture every battle or every bonked fish would be able to get some cell phone video or photos of this netting.
Anyway, considering the major closures we are facing down here in Washington, I think a temporary closure on the Fraser isn't that bad. Nearly every coho and chinook fishery has been closed or seriously curtailed in Puget Sound this year.
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Ralph , SH made his point , why close river "lower" when hazard is bb "higher" , and if fraser will be open it will be for sure bait ban , so "lower" has 0 chances , and "upper" has ... In both variations "lower" is unnecessary and unjustified . I`m not talking about mouth and banana .. I want to bar fish but I can`t in both of the cases ... while some people will have opportunity to do that in "upper" ... PLUS "lower" do less harm and it`s almost impossible to catch sox or spring here ... So which of these points still doesn`t make sense to you ?!
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Nonsense right back at ya. Snagging is illegal, enforce the existing laws.
And how would you enforce it. If hook is in the mouth of fish and there is anything attached to the hook who is to prove that it wasn't fish biting
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he made his point and so did you. It is a point of some merit but it won't change the fact the river is currently closed. Maybe in future years - let's hope so.
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RalphH, when you say 'lowest return on record' can you qualify what exactly you mean.
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And how would you enforce it. If hook is in the mouth of fish and there is anything attached to the hook who is to prove that it wasn't fish biting
snagging and flossing are 2 different things :)
prove me fish can bite by its fins or tail or back :)
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RalphH, when you say 'lowest return on record' can you qualify what exactly you mean.
per the PSC Report of Aug 19th: http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2016/WeeklyReport06.pdf
The sum of these estimates results in a total Fraser sockeye run for the season of 853,000 fish. This is the lowest run size ever estimated since
estimates began in 1893
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DFO's reason to shut down the recreational sector at this stage of the sockeye run is really unnecessary and unjustified. They are saying that even a single sockeye lost by the sporties is not worth risking so they shut down the entire creational fishing for that. Yet at this late in the game of sockeye run where they already know this is a low cycle, the test nets are continuing. Just the Albion nets alone have 50 sockeyes killed in the last few days together and 560+ since August 1st. Be real. Considering that the mortality rate is so low, 1 in more than 100, sporties will have to hook 50,000 sockeyes accidentally as a by catch in the last few days and 500,000+ sockeyes since August 1st to equal to what a single test net is doing to the stock. That is too far fetched a number of sockeye hooked by sporties, even taking into bb activity. So why it is more important for science at this late stage where it is already decided to have no fishing at all by all sector to risk killing more sockeye. Are the nets and whatever meaningless result of statistics (because it is already fact we have a low run) that more important to the scientists than risking sinking the sport fishing industry which according to Fred is worth 100s of millions to the economy and many related businesses are being hurt? Shut down all the darn nets now if DFO is really down to not risking one more sockeye for their so called conservation concern. There is still the sonar at Mission Bridge and the fish ladders at Hell's Gate to help them gauge the run. There is no need for more killings by test nets. If they just shut down one test net, it will be enough sockeye saved to justify opening the Chinook fishery which has next to nothing impact on the sockeye stock.
It's because the biological sampling is trivial as far as it's impact on the run but it is essential to understanding what's gong on with migrating salmon. The Fraser is a highly complex mixed species, mixed stock, mixed age fishery and X fish past a sonar station tells you nothing about the species and stocks of origin, timing and spawning destinations, abundance of different age classes, genetics, health and disease loads, and a myriad of other data that tissue samples can yield with a reasonable sample size. As an extremely low return year, it's a valuable data point in the timeline. Virtually every well managed fishery in the world depends on similar data.
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It's because the biological sampling is trivial as far as it's impact on the run but it is essential to understanding what's gong on with migrating salmon. The Fraser is a highly complex mixed species, mixed stock, mixed age fishery and X fish past a sonar station tells you nothing about the species and stocks of origin, timing and spawning destinations, abundance of different age classes, genetics, health and disease loads, and a myriad of other data that tissue samples can yield with a reasonable sample size. As an extremely low return year, it's a valuable data point in the timeline. Virtually every well managed fishery in the world depends on similar data.
where is any info about that "data" ? for every single fish they caught ... I want to see that data ... show it to me ....
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where is any info about that "data" ? for every single fish they caught ... I want to see that data ... show it to me ....
Are you directing your data request to me or DFO? I would suggest the latter with a Freedom of Info Request. I only have a fishing rod.
One of the interesting DFO websites I monitor is their Environmental Watch research site http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/habitat/frw-rfo/index-eng.html
that collects and uses some of the biological data and monitors in-season migration conditions (such as is the Fraser to hot or high flow for sockeye) to provide fisheries management advice during the season. It tells me the Fraser is currently too hot for migrating sockeye so there will be en-route migratory losses. There are lists of scientific publications and collaborators that use the data there as well.
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We are through August, that means I can post a final graph for the month. Numbers don't look bad.
(https://s17.postimg.org/nj7etp25b/Chinook_August.png)
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It's because the biological sampling is trivial as far as it's impact on the run but it is essential to understanding what's gong on with migrating salmon. The Fraser is a highly complex mixed species, mixed stock, mixed age fishery and X fish past a sonar station tells you nothing about the species and stocks of origin, timing and spawning destinations, abundance of different age classes, genetics, health and disease loads, and a myriad of other data that tissue samples can yield with a reasonable sample size. As an extremely low return year, it's a valuable data point in the timeline. Virtually every well managed fishery in the world depends on similar data.
So ,I believe these 20 some odd new scientists will figure it out , just keep the Albion raking up lots of lab rats to keep them busy every day right !. Take the testy boat and park it .
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If hook is in the mouth of fish and there is anything attached to the hook who is to prove that it wasn't fish biting
It currently doesn't matter. Under the regs right now there is nothing requiring the fish to actively bite. As long as it was hooked in the mouth, then by definition is is not snagged.
Interestingly certain jurisdictions like Oregon, Washington, and California have implemented anti-snagging rules that require the fish to willingly take the hook into its mouth and therefore flossing is not a legal technique. Ironically, BC used to have similar wording like that in our regs many years ago, but was changed some time ago to what we have now, and here we are. I dont know the history of when/why/how it was changed but its interesting to see what has developed since then.
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It currently doesn't matter. Under the regs right now there is nothing requiring the fish to actively bite. As long as it was hooked in the mouth, then by definition is is not snagged.
Interestingly certain jurisdictions like Oregon, Washington, and California have implemented anti-snagging rules that require the fish to willingly take the hook into its mouth and therefore flossing is not a legal technique. Ironically, BC used to have similar wording like that in our regs many years ago, but was changed some time ago to what we have now, and here we are. I dont know the history of when/why/how it was changed but its interesting to see what has developed since then.
I've never seen it enforced in Washington, and some rivers are notorious for intentional flossing, i.e. Whatcom Creek, Samish River, Skokomish River and the Puyallup river. They have tried introducing regulations such as requiring float fishing only, or requiring your presentation to be moving (not resting on the bottom), but those seem to have been abandoned.
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It's a lot tougher to enforce. People will always find a way. Unless you go to fly fishing dry lines no added weight like some Atlantic rivers, it will continue.
Leader length restrictions I would guess some would switch to full sink fly lines. Don from SPOTF has proven on his show how easy it is to floss on the fly up on the Skeena. A black mark on an otherwise great show.
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The regulations in parts of Atlantic Canada are intended to avoid unintentional snagging not flossing. Don Freschi didn't 'prove' anything. A lot of nattering nellies assumed the Freschi's were flossing salmon and steelhead. They didn't even use sink tips but the 'plop' method with big split shot and that's what got some hackles up.
Flossing with a fly rod requires long leaders - just like flossing with gear. Sink tips used in streams like the Skeena etc are so thick they can't floss efficiently in any sense - they are thicker than any mono or braid in use. In clearer water fish can see even clear intermediate lines & they just move out of the way - I've watched schools of salmon part like the red sea to avoid sinking lines drifting towards them.
It's about time drift anglers with little or experience with fly fishing stop pontificating about what can be done with fly gear and what can't.
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when hunting season starts, should make the animals willingly biting the bullets. :)
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I've seen plenty of fly flossed salmon Ralph and so have you if you've ever fished a pink run or chum hole. I saw a steelhead coming in sideways before it popped off this year on the Vedder, the guy was so proud. Funny.
I doubt a salmon would see a spring line off a barge before hit it in the face on the Fraser.
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It's about time drift anglers with little or experience with fly fishing stop pontificating about what can be done with fly gear and what can't.
Are you admitting to us that you've attempted fly flossing? Or are you just pontificating whether it can be done because you haven't actually tried to floss with a fly?
Please, do tell!
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Very good points NA ... respect for putting them together in your questions to Ralph . I really want to see what he will answer :)
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Any word on tidal opening? Predictions?
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I've seen plenty of fly flossed salmon Ralph and so have you if you've ever fished a pink run or chum hole. I saw a steelhead coming in sideways before it popped off this year on the Vedder, the guy was so proud. Funny.
I doubt a salmon would see a spring line off a barge before hit it in the face on the Fraser.
you're talking about snagging not flossing. Pretty clear you've not much experience with fly gear.
How can you tell a flossed salmon from one that's taken the fly?
Pinks and chum are dead easy to catch without lining them.
Are you admitting to us that you've attempted fly flossing? Or are you just pontificating whether it can be done because you haven't actually tried to floss with a fly?
I've flossed sockeye both with gear and fly tackle. I fly flossed sockeye in 2010 pretty easy. Depends on the water though and the river discharge. I am quite happy to floss sockeye when the runs are strong. Won't do it when DFO directs the use of selective techniques - though they include fly in that list.
Hell if we were allowed I'd use a little section of gill net like people do for smelt. A fish is just a fish after all.
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It currently doesn't matter. Under the regs right now there is nothing requiring the fish to actively bite. As long as it was hooked in the mouth, then by definition is is not snagged.
Interestingly certain jurisdictions like Oregon, Washington, and California have implemented anti-snagging rules that require the fish to willingly take the hook into its mouth and therefore flossing is not a legal technique. Ironically, BC used to have similar wording like that in our regs many years ago, but was changed some time ago to what we have now, and here we are. I dont know the history of when/why/how it was changed but its interesting to see what has developed since then.
Interesting ,but again who and how will determine how the hook was swallowed ?
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Fishery Notice
Category(s):
ABORIGINAL - General Information
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject:
FN0944-Salmon - Fraser River Salmon Update - Areas 11 to 29 - September 1, 2016
As a result of the smallest return of Fraser sockeye on record, the level of
harvest already incurred and the uncertainty about the survival rate of sockeye
that have been exposed to harmful environmental conditions within the Fraser
River, there will be no food social and ceremonial or recreational fisheries
directed on sockeye or any other salmon species which would result in sockeye
mortalities in the immediate future.
Opportunities for selective chinook directed food, social and ceremonial
fisheries are being considered for the September 17th time period which is
generally when Fraser sockeye have cleared the lower Fraser on this cycle.
Recreational opportunities for chinook directed fisheries are also being
considered beginning September 19th in the lower Fraser River. Earlier opening
dates may be considered if the Whonnock test fishery sockeye catches drop to
zero over three consecutive days and the Albion chum test fishery net also has
no sockeye catch over 2 consecutive chum fishing days during the same time
period indicating that sockeye migration has cleared the lower Fraser. (Note
that the Albion chum net is fished on only on odd-numbered days in September).
Catch data for the Whonnock and Albion test fisheries can be found at the
following websites:
Albion chum test fishery
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/commercial/albionchum-keta-
eng.html
PSC Test Fishing Summaries (click on the link for Whonnock)
http://www.psc.org/info_testfishing_summaries.htm
For clarity, any fisheries occurring in this time period will be subject to
selective fishing provisions normally implemented during the coho window
closure. Gill net fisheries will not be permitted during the coho window
closure.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Jennifer Nener 604-666-0789
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0944
Sent September 2, 2016 at 1054
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That sucks
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Yup, that sucks but should of been done a few weeks ago. They have known that sockeye were record lows for a while but still kept allowing harvest. Just really bad for that it basically means the Fraser is done for the year.
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by the 3rd week of Sep there will only be white chinooks going up river. Reds will be rare to catch by then and we will be well into the bait ban period. Bar fishing with bait is a write-off in my books for this season. Can't entirely blame the DFO for this but rather a sad state of affairs for the Fraser stocks... :(
On a separate note, we've been fishing the sandheads and T10 over the last couple of weeks with very low catch rate. Majority of the fish caught were either jacks or weighed between 8-12 lbs. This year's Chinook run is no where close to what we got last year. On a positive note though, we've seen a good number of cohos caught in the salt which could be a good sign for the fall fisheries in the river.
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A friend that fishes Tahsis says there has been a very good run of Coho there this year.
The biggest he has caught so far is 16lbs.
Those fish aren't necessarily returning to the Fraser but it sounds better than the Chinook returns.
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What is DFO waiting for now about opening up the spring fishing on the Fraser? Didn't they say if the nets have zero sockeye for consecutive days they will open earlier than Sept 19? If you look at the last 4 days of the Albion test fishery, it is zero sockeye for 4 days now. Also 3 days before this stretch, only 2 sockeye in total were netted. So isn't that considered a condition that sockeye has gone through the lower Fraser as they have told us to be a condition to open Fraser again? So why do you think DFO is still closing down the Fraser for spring fishery?
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fos2_Internet/Testfish/rptdtfdparm.cfm?fsub_id=242.
I guess the Whonnock test had one sockeye on Sunday. Is that good enough excuse to shut down the entire Fraser Chinook fishery?
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What is DFO waiting for now about opening up the spring fishing on the Fraser? Didn't they say if the nets have zero sockeye for consecutive days they will open earlier than Sept 19? If you look at the last 4 days of the Albion test fishery, it is zero sockeye for 4 days now. Also 3 days before this stretch, only 2 sockeye in total were netted. So isn't that considered a condition that sockeye has gone through the lower Fraser as they have told us to be a condition to open Fraser again? So why do you think DFO is still closing down the Fraser for spring fishery?
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fos2_Internet/Testfish/rptdtfdparm.cfm?fsub_id=242.
I guess the Whonnock test had one sockeye on Sunday. Is that good enough excuse to shut down the entire Fraser Chinook fishery?
Albion chum test fishery had one yesterday as well.
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We should all not renew our licenses next April and see if the government takes notice to that.
I could never understand why annual fishing licences do not last 1 year from date of purchase.
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=40200.0