Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Robert_G on September 03, 2015, 04:53:35 PM
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There is no excuse. It was actually quite full of color yesterday and very high. Once again, my confidence in those in charge is lacking.
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I'm sure fish think differently. The longer it's closed the more fish that will be happy.
So technically, this request, as a species, is utterly selfish.
Or just let those in charge do their job, and we'll do ours.
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There is no excuse. It was actually quite full of color yesterday and very high. Once again, my confidence in those in charge is lacking.
It's high because we just had s few days of very heavy rain, but there is still some question whether this is a long term change in the weather, or a temporary break in the extended drought conditions. What's the point in opening a bunch of rivers only to have to shut them down again in a week if it dries up again for another month. I am sure they will open things up again once it is clear the wet season is here to stay.
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I'm sure fish think differently. The longer it's closed the more fish that will be happy.
So technically, this request, as a species, is utterly selfish.
Or just let those in charge do their job, and we'll do ours.
Anthropomorphization of the fish are you?
So to extend your ideology you are giving up fishing entirely to make the fish "happiest".
Or are you ok with just killing a few of them and make "happier".
Bit of sliding moral scale you employ. There's irony in your use of the word selfish.
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So we should fish with moral abandon?
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I fished the Skagit the day before it closed. The water temperature was only 12C, below optimal for hatches and activity, and well below any concern for fish health at that time. The flow was not unusually low for that time of year, but probably did suffer during the prolonged drought. Even in other very dry years, water temperature on the Skagit has never been a problem for the fish (based on my 25 years of experience there). It would be nice if it were re-opened, especially now that the fire risk is reduced. September is usually the best month for rainbows.
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Anthropomorphization of the fish are you?
So to extend your ideology you are giving up fishing entirely to make the fish "happiest".
Or are you ok with just killing a few of them and make "happier".
Bit of sliding moral scale you employ. There's irony in your use of the word selfish.
I think the proper word were going for is Empathy, but ideally we wouldn't have to kill any animals, or harm them for that matter.
However, I was more being a dick because of the OP's seemingly 'I know better than those in charge' attitude (from how I read it) towards the Skagit.
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However, I was more being a dick because of the OP's seemingly 'I know better than those in charge' attitude (from how I read it) towards the Skagit.
I've watched and dealt with this political BS for over 30 years here in BC, and I can tell you its not that I think I know more than those in charge; what I know is that there are too many gullible people like yourself who don't even realize it when the politicians in charge are giving you the shaft.
Anybody with half a brain (in regards to fishing) knows that there is absolutely no logical or conservational reason to keep the Skagit shut down right now. At this time last year the Skagit was about a foot lower and 2 degrees warmer than it is today and it was open to fishing. The fact is that now they have either become too lazy or may possibly be underfunded to manage all these fisheries.
Maybe you should ask yourself why sooooo many streams got lumped together in the summer closure this year. Did some of those streams need to be closed this summer? Absolutely yes some of them did, but there were dozens of streams that got thrown in with them that did not need to be shut down, but those in charge were simply too lazy or again...underfunded, to manage each stream on an individual basis. It is as plain as plain can be for anyone with their eyes open to see that our fisheries are less and less becoming managed as individual streams and lakes, and more of on a group or region basis...regardless of the fact that each fishery is unique.
But if you want to believe every thing the DFO and Provincial Fisheries tells you....go ahead....the world is full of gullible people.
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It's high because we just had s few days of very heavy rain, but there is still some question whether this is a long term change in the weather, or a temporary break in the extended drought conditions. What's the point in opening a bunch of rivers only to have to shut them down again in a week if it dries up again for another month. I am sure they will open things up again once it is clear the wet season is here to stay.
Sandman, you still...after 12 years on these forums boggle my mind with some of your posts.
Statistically speaking....a heat wave (3 days or more in a row above 30 degrees) at this time of year or later is a 1 in every 15 years....After September 15th (which is only 11 days away) those odds increase to one heat wave every 75 years or more.
Here in the Eastern Fraser Valley, we averaged out to about 5 inches of rain since last Friday. The Skagit given it's geographical location could possibly had up to 8 inches or rain since then. The drought is over, Sandman.... until at least next June. This is the west coast of BC....not Arizona. It rains here....all freaking fall, winter, and most springs....and sometimes even half the summer. Even if it doesn't rain until October, our streams will be fine with the 5 inches or rain we got, and by then the water temperatures will be way down anyways. Really....think about what your saying.
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Cause you know, the whole reason it was closed in the first place was to ensure the system wasn't flooded with people and overpressured, which is exactly what would happen if it opens before other area streams.
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I agree the Skagit should be re-opened before the 30th but there's a whole lot of issues for other streams that were virtually de-watered. When I was in Manning Park the middle of last month the Sumallo looked fine but the upper Similkameen was just a trickle.
The regional biologists and F&W Managers are monitoring this and there are 2 issues being considered for reopening streams on a regional basis
- coordination with DFO - the regional stream closures were joint efforts
- the extent to which fish that survived the drought need a period of recovery
Some streams have re-opened - the Stamp & the Horsefly. Other individual streams may follow before the 30th. I'd suggest you write a polite email to F&W and ask specifically about the Skagit. Responses have been prompt and provide solid reasoning. With the Fraser now open for Pinks and the summer rush gone with Labour Day I think it might be time to open the Skagit.
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When I was in Manning Park the middle of last month the Sumallo looked fine but the upper Similkameen was just a trickle.
That's because the Skagit/Sumallo is a coastal watershed. The Similkameen is completely on the Leeward side of the coast range. Two completely different climate zones.
Like I said in my previous post.... lumping watersheds together is asking for disaster....but unfortunately, that is exactly what is now happening.
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thanks but I knew that. I still suggest you send an email with as little rant & rage enclosed as you can muster.
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Cause you know, the whole reason it was closed in the first place was to ensure the system wasn't flooded with people and overpressured, which is exactly what would happen if it opens before other area streams.
I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand! Unless every river and creek in Region 2 is able to be opened the amount of pressure that the Skagit would face would be unbearable. I am most familiar with rivers south of the Fraser, but a few of the tributaries of the C/V, and others. In my opinion they are not ready to be opened Yes the rain helped, but all it did was blow out the stagnant water and drop the temps. Levels are still low, and the fish are still clumped up in small deeper pools. To open them now would be a death sentence. Could the Skagit open and support an average number of anglers, yes, with out question. But it wouldn't be an avergae number, it would be at least 300% more and it cannot support that.
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I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand! Unless every river and creek in Region 2 is able to be opened the amount of pressure that the Skagit would face would be unbearable. I am most familiar with rivers south of the Fraser, but a few of the tributaries of the C/V, and others. In my opinion they are not ready to be opened Yes the rain helped, but all it did was blow out the stagnant water and drop the temps. Levels are still low, and the fish are still clumped up in small deeper pools. To open them now would be a death sentence. Could the Skagit open and support an average number of anglers, yes, with out question. But it wouldn't be an avergae number, it would be at least 300% more and it cannot support that.
Again....you need to understand the uniqueness of the Skagit River. If you want that type of fishing, there is no other system in the Lower Mainland that offers it (or at least not any that are well known that I would dare mention on the internet), so what you're doing here is comparing apples to oranges. Just because the Chehalis and Stave are closed...and to what would be mostly salmon fishing this time of year does NOT mean everyone of those salmon anglers is going to pick up their fly gear and head to the Skagit. Do you see what I'm saying?
Again....you are comparing apples to oranges. Even when ALL the streams in region 2 are open....the Skagit is unique as you won't find that type of fishing on any other river or stream in this region. If someone wants to dry fly fish for decent size trout in a stream or river in region 2, they go to the Skagit.......not the Chehalis, not the Stave....they go to the Skagit....end of story.....so your 'crowded theory' holds 0 water.
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edit....this post can be deleted.
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honestly I don't know where the theory the Skagit was closed because otherwise it would be over run with anglers came from. Where would all those anglers come from? The Harrison, Chilliwack & Squamish (plus Cheakamus) stayed open were they overrun? One reason all Region 2 streams were closed was to protect salmon as DFO. There are no salmon in the Skagit on the Canadian side or Ross Lake. Many of the small stream in the valley would have no salmon or mature trout in them during the drought. In some searuns will move in after the rain and would not have experienced the drought. I can't see they'd be endangered or need a period of time to recover. But it is what it is.
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Yes, lots of people are complaining about over crowding on the Squamish, the Harrison, the Mouth of the Cap and several other areas. Hopefully opening the Fraser to pinks will reduce the pressure. But the closures such as the one on the Skagit have nothing to do with salmon, and the DFO has no power to enforce closures in Fresh Water Systems. They are there to protect all species including minnows, crustaceans, juvenile trout, and insect larvae that these species feed on. All of these species are susceptible to the warm, low water that we had this summer, especially in local streams. What do people think will happen to the trout population when the most susceptible (juveniles, and their prey) are gone? Further, there are several devout anglers who don't fish for salmon who are lamenting these closures. If all of the rivers they usually fish remain closed, but the Skagit opened then yes, I believe the it would be over crowded.
It disturbs me that anglers place so little value on these species, only valuing catchable trout. Then many further narrow their concerns to a specific form of fishing. The only rules on the Skagit is no bait. It is used by a large variety of anglers. I, for example, seldom use dry flies. When I fish the Skagit it is usually when I am taking out a new fisher and teaching them nymphing or casting big streamers for Bulls. Plus I will usually pack a light spinning set up so they don't get to discouraged. Further, if the Skagit is the only place a person can find to Dry Fly in Region 2 then perhaps they should open there horizons.
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It disturbs me that anglers place so little value on these species, only valuing catchable trout
You're only disturbed by your jumping to conclusions. No one said they were not concerned about the entire biota in the LMs best trout stream. Crowding was not that bad on the Squamish. Only in one specific spot and over most of the river no where at the levels seen in 2013. The Vedder isn't all that crowded either accepting the usual meat holes. It was crowded in some of those July1. I haven't been to the Harrison but it's hardly known as a summer fishery excepting maybe sturgeon. What other major summer time river or stream fishery was not left open? None were closed. The closures were put coordinated between F&W and DFO and there is no evidence the closure on the Skagit needs to continue for the entire month. There is no evidence conditions were any different than any previous summer or any real loss of aquatic biomass took place.
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I am not arguing that the Skagit faced the threat of any serious biomass loss. I am arguing that several other creeks in Region 2 did. I know of quite a few studies done, and work done by various groups that showed serious dangerously low water levels, temperature increases, low oxygen, and depleted insect numbers in waterways through out the region. That tells me that the fish in those systems are under stress and should not be targeted. Some of these are salmon bearing streams, some are not. But people fish them for all sorts of species. If you close all of these fishing areas, people are going to go where they can. That is why I think the Skagit should remained closed until all the rivers are open.
At the end of the day, I hope that all the rivers open soon. I love taking my nephews out to fish the sloughs for carp and sun fish. I love going out after work in a local stream and chasing rainbows and cutties, and taking in countless pikeminnows instead. I love the Skagit, it is one my favorite places in North America, not just for fishing but period. That is what makes this place so great. So much to variety. But if I have to wait another month to ensure a sustainable resource, so be it. The Lakes are just becoming prime again anyways. Tight lines everyone.
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Maybe a little off topic, but just heard that the US side of the Skagit is shoulder to shoulder fishermen right now...right up to the cascades...
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big pink salmon run in the Skagit