Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: robbo1970 on August 17, 2015, 08:28:08 PM
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I have picked up a single handed fly rod again this weekend after kinda getting frustrated with it before.
I am skagit style with my switch rod, and really happy with that, but with the single handed it all goes wrong, tailing loops, wind knots, maximum of about thirty feet distance and just overall not feeling/sensation of line speed.
Does anyone have any tips or recommend a good, reasonably priced instructor. I live almost right on the Harrison and really want to get to not the pinks on the single hand.
Much appreciated,
Rob
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Watch this video, you need to practice in a field at least once. You need to focus on the casting and not even think about fishing. It will just click at one point. Remember they don't have to be perfect to catch fish as well. I've caught fish on absolutely terrible casts.
http://youtu.be/SxVvVoqFbIU
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Thanks flytec, our back yard is around 100', rain plus I also back onto lake Errock, so practice room is not an issue. I am certainly going to take a look at that video. I think that once you can get started in the right then practice is the way forward
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I do also recommend once you've tried it a few more times, go take a lesson. It helped me immensely.
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If you're ever out in Vancouver, try to book a private casting lesson with Matt Sharp from Pacific Angler. He's a great teacher, and explains things very well.
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While you are practicing and waiting for that lesson, here are a couple of things on which to work. One of the more common faults in a bad cast is failing to allow the rod to load fully on the back cast causing the loss of distance, so focus on that first. Since you have been Skagit style casting, this will need to be relearned as single handed casting loads the rod with the line looped behind you (like with the traditional Spey D loop). Make sure you can feel the load of the line on the rod before beginning the foreword cast. The other common fault, and the one that creates those tailing loops and wind knots is coming forward too fast and short on the forward cast. Again you want to feel the line and guide it forward, don't muscle it. Let the rod do the work. Your arm should remain tight to your side and hinge at the elbow, not just the wrist, and do not drop the rod tip on the final cast.
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--vid your own casting as well... you will easily be able to see what you are doing as opposed to what you think you are doing.
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http://howtoflyfish.orvis.com/video-lessons/13-fly-casting
Thats a link to the orvis guide to fly fishing. Videos are short, but lay out fly casting really well.
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There are 3 fundamental steps, 1) back-cast, 2) pause and 3) forward cast
Start with the rod tip close to the water/ground (so there is no slack in the line), load the road with a steadily increasing acceleration to a well defined stop at approximately the 1 o'clock position. Pause to let the line fully unfurl behind you, then accelerate the rod forward releasing the line at approximately at the 10 o'clock position.
The reason for not having any slack in the line and allowing time for the line to unfurl behind you is that you load the rod with your line as efficiently as possible. It is the weight of the line acting on the rod that stores and releases the energy to cast the line behind and in front of you. If you are doing it right, as you retrieve the line for the back cast your rod should have a good bend in it half way through the back cast, i.e. at the 10-11 o'clock position.
Some of the most common mistakes I see are 1) too much slack line before the back-cast, 2) allowing the rod to travel past the 1 o'clock position (some angles almost touch the ground behind them with the rod tip - so look behind you on the back cast to make sure your rod tip is kept high and 3) not leaving enough of a pause for the line to unfurl. Again look behind you to make sure you are providing a long enough pause to let the line fully unfurl. The length of the pause will vary with the amount of line you are casting. The longer the line the longer the pause. Also, slow down. Many people try to use the rod like a whip.
These excellent instructional videos are the best I have found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxehBEnCX8&list=PLAFFE1BA2E6932540&index=16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g-9nudZCDY&index=15&list=PLAFFE1BA2E6932540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km_8TUyt4fI&list=PLAFFE1BA2E6932540&index=13
HTH
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I have always found that either using a slow rod, or overlining a faster rod helps with learning to cast. It allows the caster to really feel the rod load and understand when to begin their forward cast. This may not be the proper way to teach someone but it has always worked for me.
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Thanks for all the great advise guys, looks like I have a lot of YouTube to watch. Good thing is my four year old loves to watch too. I'm sure he takes in a lot more than he lets on, he's pretty good with his 2/3 at. I can see us both in garden all weekend practising.
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I can't claim any expertise in fly casting but to the extent I solved my single handed casting problems, I found that after you have worked through all the good advice above, the 11 o'clock stop on the forward cast is very important. I kept dumping the line in a pile in front of me until I concentrated on that stop as opposed to continuing to about 9 o'clock which seems natural and kills the cast.
There is a suggestion above to over line the rod so the beginner can feel the loading. Good advice but even more basic is having a well matched line and rod. I started by picking up some old junk I had around and it didn't work. It was a revelation to get my hands on a good outfit and understand how important it is to work with an outfit that really casts. I suspect many beginners, not wanting to invest too much, start with badly matched cheap stuff that works against them.
That said, I went to a casting class with my modest outfit and after working all the way up to a 45 ft. cast, the instructor who had been a professional distance casting competitor picked up my rod and without any trial casts, cast the line clear over the greenhouse in the next property. So technique can overcome gear deficiencies to a fair degree.
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What I find interesting is an avoidance of 10-2 and instead a preference to 11-1
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What I find interesting is an avoidance of 10-2 and instead a preference to 11-1
Depends on circumstances and experience, when I am double hauling for max distance I am pushing 9-3
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the 'power stroke' is between 1 and 11. The stroke itself should be a constant acceleration until either point is reach then abruptly stop. It's been likened to hitting a nail with a hammer. You can allow the rod to drift a bit from 11 to 10 or 1 to 2 but there should be no power. Don't overpower at the start or stop. Don't apply too much power period. Concentrate on casting a relatively short distance like 30 feet off the tip top. Focus on forming a perfect U shape with the line in the air. Allow the loop to unfold for or back then let the line go. When you do that well try more line.
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The biggest mistake most people do is use the power in their arm. The consistent acceleration with abrupt stop letting the rod do the work. I still occasionally try and over power a cast, rarely works. Hah.
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I can't really add anything to all the excellent advice here except to say that I am not a great fly caster either. I took lessons that got me started but my Max is probably around 30 feet with a few false casts and I have seen guys doing double that distance in places like Furry Creek. (Mind you, they might have been using 8 or 9 weights which I believe are more effective at getting distance than my 6 wt and they seem to have this knack for doing this quick tug on the line just before doing the forward cast that seems to get it out further. Quite humbling to watch them doing that so elegantly).
Fortunately I have not found it necessary to have great casting distance in the vast majority of situations and I have done OK in spite of my limitations. If I can't reach em I just pull out my trusting spinning outfit :)
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It shouldn't matter what weight the rod is as far as casting distance is concerned. Sure wind may play a role. But a well balanced 5 wt will cast further than an underweighted 8 wt. The rod's action (fast vs. slow/moderate) also plays a key role, particularly in the wind. The key to distance casting is technique not power. Let the rod do the work, and master the double haul.
My max distance is the same for my 5 wt trout rods and 8 wt salmon rods, as long as the action on either rods are similar....about 90 feet to the backing under ideal conditions (e.g. In a park). In the salt without a stripping basket my distance drops to 60 to 70 feet as the surface tension of the water on my line will stop the line from shooting out. Like flytech, if I try to power the cast, it usually fails!
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It shouldn't matter what weight the rod is as far as casting distance is concerned. Sure wind may play a role. But a well balanced 5 wt will cast further than an underweighted 8 wt. The rod's action (fast vs. slow/moderate) also plays a key role, particularly in the wind. The key to distance casting is technique not power. Let the rod do the work, and master the double haul.
My max distance is the same for my 5 wt trout rods and 8 wt salmon rods, as long as the action on either rods are similar....about 90 feet to the backing under ideal conditions (e.g. In a park). In the salt without a stripping basket my distance drops to 60 to 70 feet as the surface tension of the water on my line will stop the line from shooting out. Like flytech, if I try to power the cast, it usually fails!
Thats good info. The only time a I really cared about casting distance was when I was fishing at Furrey Creek and would have liked a bit more water coverage. I will have to invest in a stripping basket one of these days - I don't doubt it helps.
Out of interest is the a reason to prefer a slow action rod over a fast action? I love my Reddington 6wt but I am pretty sure it is a slower action that something like a Sage which is what they gave me when I was doing fly casting lessons years ago.
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Fast action rods are able to toss heavier tips easier, and can also put more "pressure" on the fish when fighting one. They are also "better" during windy conditions IMHO. They also require a "faster" casting stroke or rhythm. Moderate or slower action rods require a "slower" casting stroke/rhythm, but they can just about cast as far if the correct technique is used. I prefer a more "moderate" action rod for chironomid fishing for trout. As for salmon, I prefer a faster action rod. But it really comes down to preference and what feels comfortable for you. I believe a "moderate" action rod has a more forgiving timing window, whereas a fast action rod has a more precise timing window, requiring the caster to more accurately time the cast to load the rod properly.
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Thats good info. The only time a I really cared about casting distance was when I was fishing at Furrey Creek and would have liked a bit more water coverage. I will have to invest in a stripping basket one of these days - I don't doubt it helps.
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No Investment required. I Just took one of the small footstools and drilled a couple of holes to hook a bungy cord and I am up out of the current. You can also glue in some Bic pen caps to help keep the line in the basket from tangling. The image is not of my basket, but identical idea only it looks like he used zap straps instead of pen caps.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FGCDnTPsi6Y/TZkMA90Wl_I/AAAAAAAAASU/viHchl02y30/s1600/P4030052.JPG)
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Thanks Sandman. It can be that simple!!!
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Stripping baskets are really effective though this simple technique is as well. It's a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time but once you get the hang of it it works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq7i5jVTyG4
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Good tip
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I read this thread yesterday and used it's advice today. Just want to say thanks for the reminders! World of difference in my casting. Then the wind picked up hard!
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Thats good info. The only time a I really cared about casting distance was when I was fishing at Furrey Creek and would have liked a bit more water coverage. I will have to invest in a stripping basket one of these days - I don't doubt it helps.
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No Investment required. I Just took one of the small footstools and drilled a couple of holes to hook a bungy cord and I am up out of the current. You can also glue in some Bic pen caps to help keep the line in the basket from tangling. The image is not of my basket, but identical idea only it looks like he used zap straps instead of pen caps.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FGCDnTPsi6Y/TZkMA90Wl_I/AAAAAAAAASU/viHchl02y30/s1600/P4030052.JPG)
Brilliant! Thank you. Much as I love this hobby I am always trying to find ways to keep my wallet healthy :)
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Stripping baskets are really effective though this simple technique is as well. It's a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time but once you get the hang of it it works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq7i5jVTyG4
I'll have to give that a try, I have tried similar techniques but always ended up tangling line.
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Went out and bought myself a basket for 2 bucks at Daiso today. Wish I could put out a photo but its soft and pliable while holding its shape. I think the use of something like a bungee around my waist will have it mold to me a bit while having it serve as a basket.
Looking forward to trying it out and if it fails its only a 2 dollar loss.
I liked that "patting your head and rubbing your tummy video" - 8). Very impressive but I am sure it is beyond my limited abilities right now. I did notice he was doing long strips before grabbing the line to make a coil - not sure how I would manage that with the really slow short strip retrieves I use when fishing for pinks.
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Hey, thanks all of you.
I got that makeshift stripping basked arrangement sorted and I have been very pleased with the results trying it out on the tidal Fraser yesterday. Started a bit shakily but, with some practice, I was getting some of my casts out about 40 feet provided I could get my rod properly loaded on the back cast.
What I was hoping to achieve was longer casts without the need for a long back-cast because the spot I was fishing did not have a great deal of room for that. I was trying to have just a little line out on the back cast and just have the line peel out of the basket on the forward cast with less need for false casting. I could do OKish with that but I still had to get quite a bit of line out on the back cast albeit less that when I did not use a stripping basket. Any of you guys know how to achieve that? (That link posted by sandman really impressed men because the guy was doing just that - I can only dream of being able to do that at present)
Another issue was getting my line tangled in the stripping basket from time to time - practice, practice.
PS: Having a blast with this fly fishing. It's been so effective for me this season and I was really thrilled to get my first Fraser pink of the season this way yesterday :)
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Glad to see some improvements.
What rod are you using? A faster action rod will help achieve farther casts as well. Remember let the rod do the work.
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Just install some vertical posts in the basket (small dowels or such) to stop the line from tangling. As for shooting the line, make sure you buy weight forward or shooting head lines as they are easier to shoot. I shoot 60-80 feet with minimal back cast (1-2) on the Fraser shore up from Derby Reach. To get to full 90+ feet you want to master the double haul, but usually need more of a back cast to get that much one shooting out.
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Thanks, vertical dowels might help especially when there is a bit of wind blowing my line about. As for line, I got it as a gift from my sister in law (I think it was the Rio brand and I wish I could recall the technicalities). When I get round to changing my line I will make sure it is weight forward or shooting head but reluctant to do that in the near future because I know the one I got was a decent quality line that floats beautifully.
As for my rod, I'm pretty sure its a slow action. Very happy with it and its something I will just have live with.
The pattern for me is my casting starts of pretty lousy and gets better as the day goes on - it seems like I have to develop a rhythm and, once I have that, I am OKish. For the most part, I think I do just fine without monster long casts but it would help when I am trying to fish on tidal waters for sure.
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The pattern for me is my casting starts of pretty lousy and gets better as the day goes on - it seems like I have to develop a rhythm and, once I have that, I am OKish. For the most part, I think I do just fine without monster long casts but it would help when I am trying to fish on tidal waters for sure.
Sounds like me, except you forgot the part where it goes downhill fast at the end of the day.
There's always this drive by men to have these long bomb casts, most of the time fish aren't far from your feet. Just get it somewhere that's comfortable for you, and don't think length of cast equates good fly fishermen. Its all about girth.
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Sounds like me, except you forgot the part where it goes downhill fast at the end of the day.
There's always this drive by men to have these long bomb casts, most of the time fish aren't far from your feet. Just get it somewhere that's comfortable for you, and don't think length of cast equates good fly fishermen. Its all about girth.
Too true. I was out again today and had one on 2 meters from my rod tip. Especially with the pinks - been getting those typically when my retrieve is about half way in - never too sure if they where close in or followed my fly for a while but it hardly matters.
This year is the first season I have been fly fishing almost exclusively and it's been a blast. At least the casting gives me something to do when things are slow ;)