Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: lightsorcerer on October 07, 2014, 08:33:44 PM
-
Everything is geared for quick gratification not about understanding or respecting.
-
Not sure what you are asking or saying? What questions?
-
Everything is geared for quick gratification not about understanding or respecting.
Are you new? This is the world of today. Sad really.
-
It's also, you know, a chat forum...
Not much else to do than share opinions. Yes, it would be good if more shared rather than asked, but this is the idea of a forum.
Less questions and more sharing in the photography, sports, fly and reports sections.
The general forum is pretty much all questions, which is to be expected.
-
This site used to be full of characters and sure at times there were disagreements but for the most part people knew what they were doing and the newbs would ask the right questions because generally the people joining back then wanted to know more about the sport then just where to go and what to use. I'm sure some of those regulars many years ago still peek at this site from time to time but most have moved on.
This is my second go on here and I basically only post on topics relating to gear and maybe some joking jabs on topics that I find amusing ;).
Lightsorcerer is right though, the last few years it seems a lot more that join the site ask for the quick solution rather than getting tips and going out and utilizing it. Experience isn't about getting the answer, it's about repetition and knowledge gained from hard work.
If I'm fishing near someone and they show the slightest interest and are patiently study what I'm doing, I'll offer suggestions or tips but I can tell you that I still keep an open mind as I still see new things that I can add to my arsenal.
-
Yeah this site is not what it used to be, time to move on.
If only I've gotten a dime everytime I've heard that in the past 13 years lol...
-
Everything was better in the past ;)
-
Yeah this site is not what it used to be, time to move on.
If only I've gotten a dime everytime I've heard that in the past 13 years lol...
Just making sure you don't forget Rodey! ;) It was a copy and paste statement and I will save it for next year! ;D
-
I think anything really worth talking about people are generally tight lipped about anyway, so other than save sports, religion, politics, what is there to talk about?
Gear?
Pictures of Fish? Locations? -no ones gonna say much about either way. "Nice fish?" "Where'd ya get it?" "Nonyadamnbusiness" "Anyone know a good fishing spot" "Nonyadamnbusiness"
Not sure whats worse. Asking legitimate fishing questions here outside of gear/rods or learning cipher or trying to get an unsanitized report on project Mongoose from 1962 I think it was. For those that don't know its a military campaign in cuban. Lol :P
So I guess I understand the frustration. There are quite the list of things I have noticed as well, but overall its not a terrible place to be. Just gotta have a masters in Google, if you need more information and kinda just use this as a reference.
-
There are people who, due to illnesses or disabilities, get very little fishing time. They too love the feeling of accomplishment from figuring things out on their own, but are often forced to rely on the kindness of strangers.
I read a lot of questions and answers on this forum, but the real learning happens when I put the pieces together and try to make some sense out of them. What I have read so far is not nearly enough for a complete and consistent picture, so I often ask more questions related to the missing pieces.
I am happy to say many people here have been very kind and helpful. I don't know if they are a part of the old crowd mentioned, but I am sure glad they are here.
-
ahhh yes ,the good ol days
when we fished with a stick,lived in a hole and .........
-
ahhh yes ,the good ol days
when we fished with a stick,lived in a hole and .........
And flossing was an unknown method and for our teeth too. ;D
-
KarateKick has summed it up quite nicely. Experienced anglers have a difficult time empathizing with how much knowledge beginners have to pick up to have a somewhat successful fishing day. It's also normal for beginner anglers to have a different expectation than more experienced anglers. It's normal for people who want to get into fishing ask about fishing spots, fishing reports, etc. After all, most people get into fishing because they want to catch fish, and they want to catch fish by using the easiest, quickest way. As the angler learns, grows and evolves, that expectation changes.
I'll admit that I have been annoyed by questions by members like KarateKick occasionally because to me they just seem straight forward. However, I'll remind myself regularly that I also was once at that stage. What I really dislike, is seeing anglers who become more experienced, and lack the patience to pass on the information they've gained to new anglers.
I get it, asking for fishing spots, fishing reports, will not benefit a new angler in the long run. If you don't wish to answer it, ignore it. Don't get irritated if someone asks about fishing regulations. Yes, people can read the regulations, OR they can ask about it if they find it difficult to understand. Answer it without passing on any judgement. Your contribution will only benefit the fisheries.
As for the composition of the discussion forum. This forum is what it is, people come and go. I don't really have the intent to build it up as a close community like flybc which is active on get-togethers etc. Many members here have become good friends and go fishing together. Great, but for the most part, I run this medium like a Q&A board.
-
The lack of disclosure for productive and under utilized fishing locations that members have found, and want to keep to themselves...I understand. If through painstaking determination someone has perfected the perfect lure, at the right time, location etc. I accept that this information is on a need to know basis only. Or, a threatened system that only seasoned participants are worthy of visiting...makes sense not to advertise these places.
However, I don't understand why questions are so frowned upon? Is it so unreasonable to inquire about how, what, where, when? I realize that you can't expect a novice to be given a comprehensive 'how to', but it seems that basic advise is few and far between...this is a fishing forum is it not? And the intolerance to lack of knowledge seems misguided. If someone seeks guidance to properly fish according to ethics, the rules, and even mutual respect...why criticize for need or lack of understanding?
Also, it is not ironic that the opposite end of the spectrum is unethical fishing practices such as, snagging, keeping restricted fish, being unlicensed, etc...these activities require no assistance...so why does a novice who wants to do the right thing have to navigate a labyrinth to obtain novice information. I respect the learning curve, but I think more patience and understanding would be nice.
-
The lack of disclosure for productive and under utilized fishing locations that members have found, and want to keep to themselves...I understand. If through painstaking determination someone has perfected the perfect lure, at the right time, location etc. I accept that this information is on a need to know basis only. Or, a threatened system that only seasoned participants are worthy of visiting...makes sense not to advertise these places.
However, I don't understand why questions are so frowned upon? Is it so unreasonable to inquire about how, what, where, when? I realize that you can't expect a novice to be given a comprehensive 'how to', but it seems that basic advise is few and far between...this is a fishing forum is it not? And the intolerance to lack of knowledge seems misguided. If someone seeks guidance to properly fish according to ethics, the rules, and even mutual respect...why criticize for need or lack of understanding?
Also, it is not ironic that the opposite end of the spectrum is unethical fishing practices such as, snagging, keeping restricted fish, being unlicensed, etc...these activities require no assistance...so why does a novice who wants to do the right thing have to navigate a labyrinth to obtain novice information. I respect the learning curve, but I think more patience and understanding would be nice.
You understand but you don't? Some of your opinions are very contradicting.
Following the rules/regs is an expectation and should be something one should expect appraise for doing.
Patience is a two way street.
Pardon the cliche and hopefully my words haven't been too harsh.
-
I believe that the only silly question is the one you do not ask. Everyone starts somewhere and it's that curiosity that leads to someone picking up the things that will make them a successful, ethical angler.
That being said, it is definitely annoying when someone is just looking for someone else to do the work for them. There is rarely a question that Google will not have an answer for and while you may be new to fishing, I highly doubt that most newbies are new to Internet forums. The search function is your friend.
-
1. I have no idea why people get so heated about this. On this forum and others. It's an open discussion forum, people post what they like, don't get your panties in a knot about it. If you don't like, or disagree with what the newbs are posting, either don't read it, or don't respond to it. If no one replys to their posts, they will get the hint quickly. Why let it ruin your day? There's a lot more horrible things going on in the world to worry about.
2. A lot of the more advanced and skilled anglers on here, and other forums ;who do all the moaning about the newbs and their questions, learned to fish with other, more advanced anglers at their side, or had friends that were "in the loop". Many of these newer anglers have neither of these advantages on their side, and learning how to fish in both of these situations is vastly different. If you are aquainted with someone who is in the loop, or friends with a good rod, who's willing to put some time in with you, it only takes a season or 2 to become a very successful angler. Without either of those advantages, it takes many years of cutting your teeth on your own to figure it out.
3. A lot of people who post these "annoying" questions, are just excited to chat about a future outing, or fishing in general. They know that google will likely provide their answers, but are excited to possibly chat with fellow fisherman on a "discussion forum". Not everyone has fishing buddys to call up and chat about conditions, locations, and techniques with.
4. Rod works very hard and does a great job to provide us with an essentially free place to hang out. His job is not easy, and all you whiners remind of the people sitting on their a $$, and yelling at their TV screens during a hockey game, like you would know what to do better than the pros who are actually playing. You are more annoying than the newbs who are asking many, essentially harmless questions, if you don't like it, or feel like you are too good for this place, you know where the door is.
Rant over...
-
You are more annoying than the newbs who are asking many, essentially harmless questions, if you don't like it, or feel like you are too good for this place, you know where the door is.
Rant over...
Here's the problem, there are harmful questions. (x) recently put up a report on a small system that already is pressured. That post has 384 views and even if a handful of the people lurking end up going there, it could ruin the stocks.
-
Here's the problem, there are harmful questions. (X) recently put up a report on a small system
Agreed.
There is a lack of censorship when people post asking stream specifics...
As some of you know, i am fairly tight lipped about areas I fish online. An example woud be in photos I never say where (unless its Edith lake)
Sometimes the background gets an edit or there isnt one beyond rocks in water...
-
You understand but you don't? Some of your opinions are very contradicting.
Following the rules/regs is an expectation and should be something one should expect appraise for doing.
Patience is a two way street.
Pardon the cliche and hopefully my words haven't been too harsh.
To clarify, my words are an attempt to descried the ridiculous contradiction that is evident with responses on this forum. Basically, dont help the new guy whose motives are in good faith...because he needs to figure everything out for himself. or he/she is too lazy to do the work themselves. It is actually alot more work to banter back and forth on this forum then to go to the tackle store and ask. I would be led to believe that this site's intent is to help people interested in fishing properly...not deter them.
And to harshly criticize anyone who dares to ask a question that may go against the perceived ethical norm (accidentally or otherwise) of the 'enlightened' How about actually sharing knowledge to help improve a novices skillset, so that they can also potentially evolve into the expectation of the few. Perhaps, with some finite guidance, a novice with basic skills will desire to transition from flossing, to drifting, flyfishing, etc.
True, this information can be had from many other alternative sources. But why cant a vast active community of members be the first choice, and not the last?
-
To clarify, my words are an attempt to descried the ridiculous contradiction that is evident with responces on this forum. Basically, dont help the new guy whose motives are in good faith...because he needs to figure everything out for himself. or he/she is too lazy to do the work themselves. It is actually alot more work to banter back and forth on this forum then to go to the tackle store and ask. I would be led to believe that this site's intent is to help people interested in fishing properly...not deter them.
And harshly criticize anyone who dares to ask a question that may go against the perceived ethical norm (accidentally or otherwise) of the 'enlightened' How about actually sharing knowledge to help improve a novices skilset, so that they can also potentially evolve into the expectation of the few. Perhaps, with some finite guidance, a novice with basic skills will desire to transition from flossing, to drifting, flyfishing, etc.
True, this information can be had from many other alternative sources. But why cant a vast active community of members be the first choice, and not the last?
Good points silver. I would just like to point out that participants in this discussion forum do not represent the website, so their opinions do not necessarily paint an accurate picture on what this website is all about.
-
To clarify, my words are an attempt to descried the ridiculous contradiction that is evident with responces on this forum. Basically, dont help the new guy whose motives are in good faith...because he needs to figure everything out for himself. or he/she is too lazy to do the work themselves. It is actually alot more work to banter back and forth on this forum then to go to the tackle store and ask. I would be led to believe that this site's intent is to help people interested in fishing properly...not deter them.
And harshly criticize anyone who dares to ask a question that may go against the perceived ethical norm (accidentally or otherwise) of the 'enlightened' How about actually sharing knowledge to help improve a novices skilset, so that they can also potentially evolve into the expectation of the few. Perhaps, with some finite guidance, a novice with basic skills will desire to transition from flossing, to drifting, flyfishing, etc.
True, this information can be had from many other alternative sources. But why cant a vast active community of members be the first choice, and not the last?
But doesn't it seem like the only posts that really get ripped are when people say something like "Are the chum in yet?" or "I'm taking ... fishing and I want to get them into fish. Where is a quiet spot that I can do this?" Really there aren't too many other posts where people get pissed other than spots. Every other posts gets fairly good and knowledgeable answers.
-
Good points silver. I would just like to point out that participants in this discussion forum do not represent the website, so their opinions do not necessarily paint an accurate picture on what this website is all about.
This is true, while I am newer. There is definitely a "louder" group of posters. Rather more consistent and frequent posters, and while you may say that they do not reflect the forum as a whole, its still a guilty by association. Whether we like it or not.
If the persons can look past it all, its a great website, its why I am here and say not somewhere else because there are many great fishing sites out there.
But at least for my my personal preference is to be here, when I ask questions like about the spey rod or the lines. I came here first, and while writing the questions I am also googling for answers most cases blogs or whatever can be pretty nonsensical, or overly scientific when sometimes, the simplest answer will do.
My experience here so far is people tend to oddly very straight forward and easier to understand. Incredibly helpful over all.
As for fishing holes. People seem to think its all a big secret. I got news, its not. And once the bigger spots get over fished, much like it is now.
People going to start pushing in land, or north.
We don't to The Dean or The Yakoun because we enjoy spending $80-110 on gas one way. I guess what I am trying to say I would rather share a few of my hot spots, if it means less pressure on the fish and river itself. Spread it around :P
-
1. I have no idea why people get so heated about this. On this forum and others. It's an open discussion forum, people post what they like, don't get your panties in a knot about it. If you don't like, or disagree with what the newbs are posting, either don't read it, or don't respond to it. If no one replys to their posts, they will get the hint quickly. Why let it ruin your day? There's a lot more horrible things going on in the world to worry about.
2. A lot of the more advanced and skilled anglers on here, and other forums ;who do all the moaning about the newbs and their questions, learned to fish with other, more advanced anglers at their side, or had friends that were "in the loop". Many of these newer anglers have neither of these advantages on their side, and learning how to fish in both of these situations is vastly different. If you are aquainted with someone who is in the loop, or friends with a good rod, who's willing to put some time in with you, it only takes a season or 2 to become a very successful angler. Without either of those advantages, it takes many years of cutting your teeth on your own to figure it out.
3. A lot of people who post these "annoying" questions, are just excited to chat about a future outing, or fishing in general. They know that google will likely provide their answers, but are excited to possibly chat with fellow fisherman on a "discussion forum". Not everyone has fishing buddys to call up and chat about conditions, locations, and techniques with.
4. Rod works very hard and does a great job to provide us with an essentially free place to hang out. His job is not easy, and all you whiners remind of the people sitting on their a $$, and yelling at their TV screens during a hockey game, like you would know what to do better than the pros who are actually playing. You are more annoying than the newbs who are asking many, essentially harmless questions, if you don't like it, or feel like you are too good for this place, you know where the door is.
Rant over...
I'm not sure how my post got your panties in a knot, I certainly wasn't bashing newbies. Just the ones that are clearly looking for a quick fix with little to no effort.
You basically described me in your rant. I have felt my way around a dark room looking for a light switch for 3 years now. I've been out a few times with experienced rods and have gained some valuable experience from it. I fish alone as my family and friends are not into fishing and still come home empty handed most trips but all week long, I'm itching to get back out there.
I know it's going to take time and I am and have been putting in the work in hopes of being one of the "top rods" one day.
I have and will continue to ask questions but it's once I hit a dead end looking for the answers myself.
-
I think (to go with my above) part of it is how they are asking.
Rather then going "is (insert river name) a good place to fish" or "where are good spots on the (insert river name)" they could ask "what structure makes good fish habitat" or "where do coho hold in a river."
Not only will they avoid annoying guys, but they learn why a river might fish well, so they can look for this structure elsewhere in their fishing travels.
-
I think (to go with my above) part of it is how they are asking.
Rather then going "is (insert river name) a good place to fish" or "where are good spots on the (insert river name)" they could ask "what structure makes good fish habitat" or "where do coho hold in a river."
Not only will they avoid annoying guys, but they learn why a river might fish well, so they can look for this structure elsewhere in their fishing travels.
I don't disagree with that at all. Lol maybe we should do a FlyBC thing, they do a free spey casting class. Instead what we could do is a "how to read a river" youtube just isn't the same as doing it in person. Take 2 or 3 people who truly feel like its a struggle, and just show one of our favorite spots and teach them how to work it properly and read the river. Or something like that. I don't know if I would the best person myself, I tend to just get a gut feeling when it comes to finding holes to drop a line in.
So long as we can the word out for people to stop crowding up lickman road, like some kinda tumor. Ugh, before they changed the river with all the dredging that spot was just the worse, scumbags ever.
Although I met one really nice person there way back when before I wrote off that whole river.
-
I'm not sure how my post got your panties in a knot, I certainly wasn't bashing newbies. Just the ones that are clearly looking for a quick fix with little to no effort.
You basically described me in your rant. I have felt my way around a dark room looking for a light switch for 3 years now. I've been out a few times with experienced rods and have gained some valuable experience from it. I fish alone as my family and friends are not into fishing and still come home empty handed most trips but all week long, I'm itching to get back out there.
I know it's going to take time and I am and have been putting in the work in hopes of being one of the "top rods" one day.
I have and will continue to ask questions but it's once I hit a dead end looking for the answers myself.
This definitely wasn't aimed at you, or anyone in particular. There's just so much senseless moaning going on about stuff that doesn't require moaning about. Sure there are some legitimately stupid questions asked, but rather than shoot the person down, or complain about them, just ignore their questions completely. The only option they will have left is to use the search function, or turn to google. The same goes for people who post about sensitive waters. Just leave it alone and it will go away. The more flack you give them for posting it, and the more you try to steer people away, the more attention it will generate.
Lots of people seem to blame the internet, and forums for the increased pressure on our local systems. Guess what. We live in the lower mainland. Check the population growth stats. The populations growing every year, and as such, people are getting pushed into different and more "sensitive" waters. I'm definitely not condoning posting about smaller and more sensitive waters, but it's not worth screaming about when it happens. The info on these is not hard to find for those who are determined.
-
This definitely wasn't aimed at you, or anyone in particular. There's just so much senseless moaning going on about stuff that doesn't require moaning about. Sure there are some legitimately stupid questions asked, but rather than shoot the person down, or complain about them, just ignore their questions completely. The only option they will have left is to use the search function, or turn to google. The same goes for people who post about sensitive waters. Just leave it alone and it will go away. The more flack you give them for posting it, and the more you try to steer people away, the more attention it will generate.
Lots of people seem to blame the internet, and forums for the increased pressure on our local systems. Guess what. We live in the lower mainland. Check the population growth stats. The populations growing every year, and as such, people are getting pushed into different and more "sensitive" waters. I'm definitely not condoning posting about smaller and more sensitive waters, but it's not worth screaming about when it happens. The info on these is not hard to find for those who are determined.
I agree, the internet helps but so does word of mouth, do you think the guys at Fred's is gonna keep every single stream and creek a secret if it means they make some money selling gear to go with those spots? Highly doubtful. Good customer service even if it means spilling out a few good fishing holes means repeat customers, which means more money. Even if he doesn't, you still got places like Army and Navy and other shops who don't really care but are still aiming for the similar goal of making the almighty dollar.
As for population growth, heres the census from 2012, I imagine its only gotten bigger since then.
From a national point of view B.C. is the second-fastest growing province in Canada, second only to Alberta. Canadas overall population increased 5.9 percent between 2006 and 2011 to 33.5 million, with the western provinces leading the charge. Also for the first time, the population of B.C. and the Prairies is greater than that of Quebec and the Atlantic provinces.
Surrey up 18.6 per cent to 468,251
Vancouver up 4.4 per cent to 603,502.
Port Moody up 19.9 per cent to 32,975.
Burnaby up 10.1 per cent to 223,218
Richmond up 9.2 per cent to 190,473.
Abbotsford up 7.4 per cent to 133,497
Coquitlam up 10.4 per cent to 126,456
Langley Township up 11.2 per cent to 104,177
Delta up 3.3 per cent to 99,863
North Vancouver District up 2.2 per cent to 84,412
Chilliwack up 12.6 per cent to 77,936
Maple Ridge up 10.3 per cent to 76,052
New Westminster up 12.7 to 65,976
Port Coquitlam up 6.9 per cent to 56,342
North Vancouver City up 6.7 per cent to 48,196
Langley City up 6.3 per cent to 25,081
White Rock up 3.1 per cent to 19,339
To think some of those people aren't fishermen/women would be kinda naive I think. Not to mention BC was listed as one of the top fishing destinations of the world at one point, Well it was mostly Langara or something, lol but still.
-
Some folks need a hug. Fishing is SUPPOSE to be FUN.
As for favorite spots the post about learning to read the water is dead on with fav spot changing with water conditions. Learn to read the water ;)
-
Some folks need a hug. Fishing is SUPPOSE to be FUN.
x2
If you find fishing hard, you're doing it wrong.
-
I don't think its about it being "hard" or not "fun" as opposed the general "asshatery"
-
An old fashioned but good way to deal with typical newbie questions is an FAQ. An FAQ could be pinned at the top of the board and users could post them their and new users who ask questions regarding regs, web links for basic info, fishing locations etc can simply be referred to a specific item in the FAQ.
-
An old fashioned but good way to deal with typical newbie questions is an FAQ. An FAQ could be pinned at the top of the board and users could post them their and new users who ask questions regarding regs, web links for basic info, fishing locations etc can simply be referred to a specific item in the FAQ.
I'm pretty sure this is already done in one sense or another. Unless you're computer illiterate which would be ironic because it's the new generations who ask the questions already asked but they don't know how to use the search function or browse the pre written articles. Anyway, how did this thread get such a wild bunch of responses from such vague OP??!
Tight lines.
-
KarateKick has summed it up quite nicely. Experienced anglers have a difficult time empathizing with how much knowledge beginners have to pick up to have a somewhat successful fishing day. It's also normal for beginner anglers to have a different expectation than more experienced anglers. It's normal for people who want to get into fishing ask about fishing spots, fishing reports, etc. After all, most people get into fishing because they want to catch fish, and they want to catch fish by using the easiest, quickest way. As the angler learns, grows and evolves, that expectation changes.
I'll admit that I have been annoyed by questions by members like KarateKick occasionally because to me they just seem straight forward. However, I'll remind myself regularly that I also was once at that stage. What I really dislike, is seeing anglers who become more experienced, and lack the patience to pass on the information they've gained to new anglers.
I get it, asking for fishing spots, fishing reports, will not benefit a new angler in the long run. If you don't wish to answer it, ignore it. Don't get irritated if someone asks about fishing regulations. Yes, people can read the regulations, OR they can ask about it if they find it difficult to understand. Answer it without passing on any judgement. Your contribution will only benefit the fisheries.
As for the composition of the discussion forum. This forum is what it is, people come and go. I don't really have the intent to build it up as a close community like flybc which is active on get-togethers etc. Many members here have become good friends and go fishing together. Great, but for the most part, I run this medium like a Q&A board.
Well, Rodney - I can honestly say that with the help of members on this board (you being one of them, on more than one occasion!) that answered my dumb questions (sometimes in a PM to avoid web-rush to locations etc), that I am the fisherman I am today. I likely would have given up if not for the help of members of this board helping me online and on a couple of occasions, spending a day on the river with me. I don't know if I'd call myself a 'seasoned' fisherman LOL BUT I can hold my own, know and understand different ways and places and times to fish, and am usually somewhat successful. I enjoy it much more that when I started and got frustrated from lack of knowledge.
Had I learned from the first place a friend from out of province and I went just to check it out, I would be ripping and snagging - because that was what we saw (and obviously, they were catching!). From this (and a couple other sites) I learned ethical ways to fish, I learned productive ways to fish, I learned more than one method of fishing. I learned to enjoy our fisheries, and now have a little bit of knowledge to share!
I could go on, but take a big blanket of my thanks, and others like me and cover up the complaints - and that goes to all the members that have and do share their knowledge - online, in PMs or in person. THANK YOU!
-
I believe that the only silly question is the one you do not ask. Everyone starts somewhere and it's that curiosity that leads to someone picking up the things that will make them a successful, ethical angler.
There are no silly questions - only silly answers! 8)
-
I think (to go with my above) part of it is how they are asking.
Rather then going "is (insert river name) a good place to fish" or "where are good spots on the (insert river name)" they could ask "what structure makes good fish habitat" or "where do coho hold in a river."
Not only will they avoid annoying guys, but they learn why a river might fish well, so they can look for this structure elsewhere in their fishing travels.
It's also in how questions are answered - they may ask them "wrong", but they could be answered "right".
-
There's been few cases of people asking the same questions 2 or more times. There's been at least one case where they found the answer at the appropriate source on line, admitted getting an answer at a tackle shop but still had to ask the question here. Then still complained when directed to the regs that they still weren't sure. Are some people just playing dumb? That's my impression.
-
Experienced anglers have a difficult time empathizing with how much knowledge beginners have to pick up to have a somewhat successful fishing day. It's also normal for beginner anglers to have a different expectation than more experienced anglers. It's normal for people who want to get into fishing ask about fishing spots, fishing reports, etc. After all, most people get into fishing because they want to catch fish, and they want to catch fish by using the easiest, quickest way. As the angler learns, grows and evolves, that expectation changes.
I am sure you have noticed but there is a lot of peer pressure among experienced anglers not to reveal information particularly regarding locations and times. Talk about a stream or lake and someone will chirp up about the need to protect sensitive systems or some lecture about not communicating 'secret' locations or spots. Others will complain how internet 'outing' floods once quiet spots with aggressive tyros.
Traditionally most new anglers learned the sport from friends, relatives or work mates and then supplemented that from books and magazines. There are dozens of websites etc to mine for general and local information. Why don't newbies use them? Sure experienced anglers will offer some advice on the water and sometimes it just means asking. Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.
-
Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.
Mass generalization there. Sounds like you're talking about the Sockeye fishery, and those people aren't technically real anglers. I've actually noticed the opposite about the "behaviour of inexperienced anglers" myself, especially this season. I have a group of fishing buddies and we are all in our early twenties. We fish the right way, because we all picked up tips from experienced anglers on this forum and others. What I HAVE seen in my 10 trips out this fall are much more experienced anglers setting a horrible example for the younger generation with unethical fishing techniques.
We have run into other groups of younger anglers, and they seem to be much more likely to stop and chat, share advice, etc. Whereas when we try to speak with some clearly superior experienced fisherman, we are more likely than not to receive a gruff, short answer, if anything at all.
Might just be me, but this kind of seems like the typical grumpy old man syndrome, upset that the internet has made gathering of information easier for new anglers, when they "had to walk 100 miles in the snow, naked" to find their fish.
Twice at the Vedder experienced anglers have taken a couple minutes out of their fishing time to help us out, and I am so thankful for it. Both times I gained a valuable piece of knowledge that has helped me fish more effectively. Maybe if we all just work harder to say hello to each other on the river and exchange info, it might ease the burden on the forums a tiny bit. Just an idea.
-
I am sure you have noticed but there is a lot of peer pressure among experienced anglers not to reveal information particularly regarding locations and times. Talk about a stream or lake and someone will chirp up about the need to protect sensitive systems or some lecture about not communicating 'secret' locations or spots. Others will complain how internet 'outing' floods once quiet spots with aggressive tyros.
Traditionally most new anglers learned the sport from friends, relatives or work mates and then supplemented that from books and magazines. There are dozens of websites etc to mine for general and local information. Why don't newbies use them? Sure experienced anglers will offer some advice on the water and sometimes it such means asking. Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with. Experienced anglers are understandably protective of the places they fish and their advice.
You'd be surprised how many people usually do, but sometimes even that fact finding mission of google or other websites, its hard to interpret that information, you know what they say about assumptions. they make a A SS out of you and me.
Not everyone has a great pool of friends to get advice and knowledge. Ideally that gap was filled by places like these forums, which Rod has even said this is suppose to be somewhat a giant Q and A.
People don't have the luxury now a days of commuting to all high heaven like the old days when it was 0.92/L its not always about getting into fish looking for these lakes and rivers/streams about just finding a spot they know will be reliable and tired of the guessing game.
One could argue everything you just argued about could easily be said to someone who's visited the same sites or asked some fundamental questions and just end up lashing out, they get frustrated and decide "I don't give a F!"
I guarantee i bet most would not even help people out on the water if they saw them struggling, or they showed up and a place was crowded out, I've given up spots so fishermen, regardless of age and sex can get a spot. Rather then being a dick and saying "just walk the river find a spot" they came to that spot for a reason. Probably on the advice of someone. It's a easy conversation to have "I'm about ready for my daily bad habit, have at her...don't go deep, couple of nasty snags" though I definitely prefer to only give up my spots to cute red heads and younger adults/tweens getting started. :P
No, Honor, No Valor, No Compassion, Not a drop of Humility anymore. Which is why you have a recreational sport more divided than Palestinians and the Israelites. Thats the bug up my butt. Not about finding a place to fish or when tides are, they are guides for that, its true and apps (everyone has a smartphone or should by now) Orvis App is beast.
Also if you want great fishing locations/tips and gear Tom Rosenbauer - a renowned fly fisherman who has got a few great books out there.
His last two podcasts have been about Atlantic and Steelhead fishing as well as a pod about west coast saltwater fly fishing.
But if people want give out some information regardless of the kind of question it might thats there right.
-
Might just be me, but this kind of seems like the typical grumpy old man syndrome, upset that the internet has made gathering of information easier for new anglers, when they "had to walk 100 miles in the snow, naked" to find their fish.
Twice at the Vedder experienced anglers have taken a couple minutes out of their fishing time to help us out, and I am so thankful for it. Both times I gained a valuable piece of knowledge that has helped me fish more effectively. Maybe if we all just work harder to say hello to each other on the river and exchange info, it might ease the burden on the forums a tiny bit. Just an idea.
The first part of this I completely agree with. The Second I am glad to see and agree with. There are ways to solve a lot of this on the online side, depending on how much work the site admins want put in, but maybe a section for full members after say 6 months or a year you have access to read and write only forum, where this so called "black helicopter" information (sensitive info for the humorless) could be put into. You can alter settings on a forum so unless you have been flagged and logged on you can't actually even access it all together.
-
You'd be surprised how many people usually do, but sometimes even that fact finding mission of google or other websites, its hard to interpret that information, you know what they say about assumptions. they make a A SS out of you and me...
No, Honor, No Valor, No Compassion, Not a drop of Humility anymore. Which is why you have a recreational sport more divided than Palestinians and the Israelites. Thats the bug up my butt. Not about finding a place to fish or when tides are, they are guides for that, its true and apps (everyone has a smartphone or should by now) Orvis App is beast...
This was a rant at the get go but when you came to the Palestinians and Israeli part it became irrational and downright mean spirited. I've done my fair share of answering questions & providing info both here, other websites and on the water. Most of what I know I learned as I described. I have fished for over 50 years and almost all of that locally I can think of very few times anyone offered me advice or help in the years I started out. When I was a younger I went fishing with my father, that was how I got the habit. On some of the rivers we fished in the fall, we quickly stopped telling people the truth when they asked how the fishing was or if we had caught anything, as invariably they'd plant themselves right beside us if we did. Even 50 years ago we had to be on the river before the crack of dawn to get a spot we favoured. There is difference between wanting a little help and information and greed and sloth. Folks looking to learn have to be charitable as well. They have stop thinking they are charity cases deserving of someone else's singular attention.
-
Mass generalization there. Sounds like you're talking about the Sockeye fisher...
No generalization what so ever and the Vedder is often a bigger dirt hole than the Fraser.
-
"Another issue is the behaviour of inexperienced anglers; some and I am not saying all will kill anything they catch regardless of regulations, litter or take their entire extended family to bulk up the catch. It may just a small minority but you never know who you're dealing with."
That's a generalization. As I've said, I've seen many more age 50+ experienced anglers ripping their lines through the water, than younger, less experienced rods. And I've never seen a giant family of people keeping extra fish on the Vedder. Sounds like bitter, grumpy conjecture to me.
-
A generalization is of the form all A is B and which is not how I put what I said. Rather I allowed it may be a small minority but I don't know you or whoever and I would be reluctant to help someone on such a basis which is consistent with human nature in general (that's a generalization). It has been ever thus as I tried to point out in a previous post. The reluctance to help novices one is not familiar with has always been more or less the case. I'd also say that expecting anything for the asking and getting angry when that doesn't happen is symptomatic of a lack of maturity which is a problem for one or 2 people here. That is not a generalization.
I'd also say consider that nobody knows everything. I am still learning and almost everyday out on the water presents me with something new.
-
This was a rant at the get go but when you came to the Palestinians and Israeli part it became irrational and downright mean spirited. I've done my fair share of answering questions & providing info both here, other websites and on the water. Most of what I know I learned as I described. I have fished for over 50 years and almost all of that locally I can think of very few times anyone offered me advice or help in the years I started out. When I was a younger I went fishing with my father, that was how I got the habit. On some of the rivers we fished in the fall, we quickly stopped telling people the truth when they asked how the fishing was or if we had caught anything, as invariably they'd plant themselves right beside us if we did. Even 50 years ago we had to be on the river before the crack of dawn to get a spot we favoured. There is difference between wanting a little help and information and greed and sloth. Folks looking to learn have to be charitable as well. They have stop thinking they are charity cases deserving of someone else's singular attention.
Nothing mean spirited about it, its by fact that there is a huge clear division. Greed is the root. However there is also something else. It's Pride. Arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my cup of coffee either.
I've fished all my life, nothing going comes from any of this. This is the weekend of Thanksgiving, you should be thankful. I am, aside from the obvious, I also thank for places like this where I can get help when I need and help from good people. I haven't argued against that at all.
I am always happy to share my knowledge.
We can't really have a FAQ because a lot of information changes but having an archive of locked forums would go a long ways. It's just finding time to sort them in to appropriate categories for easy indexing.
-
sorry but comparing this to Israel and the Palestinians was mean. I also find your appeal to thanksgiving and that I should be thankful, arrogant. That's just the way I feel about it.
I was just trying to comment on Rod's statement that experienced anglers have little empathy for beginners. Perhaps beginners should have some for the experienced. There is an angling culture that's been in place for a long time here.
-
Take what you want from it.
-
This thread is still going??!
Okay.. well.. money, politics and religion three things not to discuss at the dinner table or an anonymous online forum.
That being said, I don't believe any lines have been crossed and that's all from me on this one.
-
I thought I'd bring this back on topic with a very very good documentary worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfGvvz7HbAw (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfGvvz7HbAw)
-
I find it rude and smug when the question is asked "Should I go fishing at X" and the replies are "Fishing is not about catching" or "Go try for yourself and report back" or something similar. However, I will admit, that it does get overwhelming trying to be helpful when there is a new angler every couple weeks rackings up the posts asking well-intentioned, curious, questions.
I totally get it. If I was a new angler and I found this treasure trove of anglers, I would be all over it too. Many new anglers haven't developed the fishing network that others have, and new anglers haven't learned what questions they "shouldn't" ask. They are just eager, usually younger, sponges. However,as someone else mentioned, I would much rather spend my time mentoring a person on the water, one on one, (which I do frequently) than over a keyboard in the evenings.
And speaking of the war of words that develop sometimes. I am reminded of the great cartoon that Rodney posted a couple of years ago. It depicted at negligee clad woman standing behind her man, who is hunched over a keyboard. "Just a minute", he says, "somebody is wrong on the Internet". Everytime I want to wade into a conversation and offer my 2 cents to people I haven't met, and as a result inflate my ego as to how right I am, I remember that cartoon, log off, and say "hi" to my wife :)
-
And speaking of the war of words that develop sometimes. I am reminded of the great cartoon that Rodney posted a couple of years ago. It depicted at negligee clad woman standing behind her man, who is hunched over a keyboard. "Just a minute", he says, "somebody is wrong on the Internet". Everytime I want to wade into a conversation and offer my 2 cents to people I haven't met, and as a result inflate my ego as to how right I am, I remember that cartoon, log off, and say "hi" to my wife :)
XKCD :) favorite of mine. https://www.mattcutts.com/images/duty_calls.png
-
A generalization is of the form all A is B and which is not how I put what I said. Rather I allowed it may be a small minority but I don't know you or whoever and I would be reluctant to help someone on such a basis which is consistent with human nature in general (that's a generalization). It has been ever thus as I tried to point out in a previous post. The reluctance to help novices one is not familiar with has always been more or less the case. I'd also say that expecting anything for the asking and getting angry when that doesn't happen is symptomatic of a lack of maturity which is a problem for one or 2 people here. That is not a generalization.
I'd also say consider that nobody knows everything. I am still learning and almost everyday out on the water presents me with something new.
People who consistently use the preface "it may only be a few" or "I'm not saying everyone, but" are often just trying to cover their tracks so that people don't say you're generalizing. It doesn't change the fact that you ARE generalizing. You didn't base it on any past real-life experience, as others in this thread have. You said inexperienced anglers kill everything they catch, etc. And I was just trying to point out that I have SEEN (see, real experience to base a claim) a lot of older, more experienced anglers fishing unethically this season.
My other point was just that maybe if we tried to be a little friendlier on the river and spread knowledge, it could, even if ever so slightly, reduce the pressure on the boards. It might be a pie-in-the-sky idea, but it's something. This was also backed up with real life experience, as I said that we have often tried to converse with other more experienced anglers, and the majority of them have been gruff, or rude to us. And yes, usually it is human nature to be wary of strangers, but it's not unusual that common hobbies have a way of bringing strangers together.