Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Every Day on September 21, 2014, 09:40:40 PM
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The original pictures in the thread kept getting removed due to facebook changing the links to their photos. I decided to make a blog post instead with photo's uploaded directly to the post, so they should always work.
Here's the blog post. Let me know if it is missing anything, or if you have any questions not already answered in the thread!
https://outdooraddictions.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/the-trailing-hook-method/
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very cool idea!
thank for sharing!! I will try it
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Thanks for the detailed instructions and very clear pics for the knots involved.
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Thanks for posting Dan!
You are an asset to the fishing community.
Cheers,
Dan
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Thanks! great post :)
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Thank you for sharing! Going to try this on some spoons for coho on the lower Vedder this week. :D
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Thanks for the share - definitely going to give this a try! BTW, I like your nail polish in the last photo. ;)
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Really interesting method, thanks for sharing. I have bunch of spoons but never been very successful with them. Most likely because not knowing how to cast and retrieve spoons properly but I will start using them with your trailing hook rigging method and try to gain more experiance. Perhaps a dumb question but would you think this method would also work or even help with blades?
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Really interesting method, thanks for sharing. I have bunch of spoons but never been very successful with them. Most likely because not knowing how to cast and retrieve spoons properly but I will start using them with your trailing hook rigging method and try to gain more experiance. Perhaps a dumb question but would you think this method would also work or even help with blades?
The method would most likely not work with blades. The blades already use a small enough hook, and there (IMO) isn't really a binding point with blades anyway. These will work with spinners (blue fox and the like), however it does get annoying as the line will twist and bunch up at times. It seems to also drop the hook a bit too far back on spinners as well.
Pretty much the only reason I've done this is to combat the massively oversized fish killing hooks that generally come with spoons. It also allows you to change out hooks quickly, and you don't need to buy any specialized open eye hooks. As said in the article as well, all you need is a 100 yard spool of dacron (7 bucks), and a bunch of octopus or sickle hooks. With the hooks I use and the braid, I can rig 100 spoons up for ~$18.
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I have a question.I tied 3 the first turned out perfectly but the 2nd and 3rd had a small loop in the knot.Does this ever happen to you is there something im doing wrong?
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I've had it happen too.
It doesn't ruin the integrity of the knot, it just sometimes is hard to pass the knot through the spoon if this occurs.
Try fixing it by making sure you have both tag ends together, and pull evenly. Also make sure you are pulling on both the hook AND the tag ends at the same strength/pace.
It helps if you pull it tight quite quickly and with a lot of force (which is difficult to do if you're trying to get a specific length).
Cheers,
Dan
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Sounds great. Thanks again!
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Hi,
Thats a really cool setup. Did I read somewhere before where you said (or someone said) that they like to use a lighter lb test on the trailer setup so if the spoon gets shagged up just the trailer hook will break and you wont lose your spoon? I see there you are using 30lb - is there a reason for the heavy line?
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I have used a similar knot/approach in the past (yours is admitedly much cleaner the ones I have used). My knots tended to be bigger so when needed I have used a drill to enlarge the hole, or put in a split ring and tied the knot to the split ring, then made the lenth of braid (or dacron) a bit shorter so the hook isn't trailing too far behind.
GREAT WRITE UP!
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Thanks for sharing Dan! Look forward to giving it a shot
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Hi,
Thats a really cool setup. Did I read somewhere before where you said (or someone said) that they like to use a lighter lb test on the trailer setup so if the spoon gets shagged up just the trailer hook will break and you wont lose your spoon? I see there you are using 30lb - is there a reason for the heavy line?
I never intentionally use light line. 30 pounds is as light as I would go. I would also highly recommend using dacron. Braid, with it's think diameter, can and will (I have had it happen quite often) get cut by the back end of the spoon. The braid also seems to slide around and fray more easily. The dacron forms nice connections and stays put, and never really breaks. SOMETIMES, if you get snagged and pop your rod for a while (we're talking you don't wanna lose the spoon and spend 5 mins sitting there popping your rod), you can saw through the dacron and get your spoon back. My best suggestion if you want to be able to pull out of snags, is use a size 1 or 2 matzou sickle hook. They have really light wire, so you can bend these out on a snag if you're running the 15 braid/15 flouro leader combos like I do. I only use those hooks when I know there is a high % chance of snagging up, but I still want to fish. Hooking fish on those of anything bigger than 8 pounds, you'll have to baby them quite a bit to avoid straightening the hook out.
I should mention, the odd time, you'll get a dud spoon. It's only happened to me twice before, but with both those times I had fish break off my dacron loop 3 or 4 times in a row. Upon checking the spoons, they both had several burrs that were sawing through the line during fights. My advice, if you have a fish break your loop off for no apparent reason on a spoon, put a split ring and a swivel on that one, as you won't really be able to fix it, and it will keep happening.
Cheers,
Dan
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Thanks for the detailed post and pictures. Going to use spoons a lot this fall and winter so this looks great.
For anyone wondering how to fish spoons, I picked up Bill Herzogs book and it is great!
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hi Dan and thank you for the great post, I just like many others wanted try the trailing hook method so it's coming right on time for the season.
if you're running the 15 braid/15 flouro leader combos like I do.
can you please elaborate on the fluoro leaders setup? Do you use blood knot to tie the fluro straight to mainline or you use swivels? also how long of a fluro to the spoon would be adequate? I've tried blood knot to 10ft fluoro in the past but I thought it maybe a bit overkill. cheers and thanks for input :)
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hi Dan and thank you for the great post, I just like many others wanted try the trailing hook method so it's coming right on time for the season. can you please elaborate on the fluoro leaders setup? Do you use blood knot to tie the fluro straight to mainline or you use swivels? also how long of a fluro to the spoon would be adequate? I've tried blood knot to 10ft fluoro in the past but I thought it maybe a bit overkill. cheers and thanks for input :)
I use a loop to loop connection (Perfection loops).
Double up the end of your braid line and then tie the loop in. The doubled up braid will bind better, and the doubled up braid won't cut through the flouro loop as easily as a single strand of braid would. If you don't double up the braided line before tying, the knot will generally pull out.
I don't use swivels. I always attach directly to my braid. I tend to run a 10 foot flouro leader. 15 pounds for steelhead in big water on the swing (20 for larger rivers like the T - the fish hit hard enough to break 20). 10 pound in slow frog water for coho.
Cheers,
Dan
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I've haven't caught over 100 salmonoids yet but you mentionned the trailing hook rig not only reduces risk or dangerous hook sets but also increases landing ratio.
Possible the improved %'s are attributed to your gained experience over the years or upgaded rod/reel ?
Edit - BTW, great info regardless
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I've haven't caught over 100 salmonoids yet but you mentionned the trailing hook rig not only reduces risk or dangerous hook sets but also increases landing ratio.
Possible the improved %'s are attributed to your gained experience over the years or upgaded rod/reel ?
Edit - BTW, great info regardless
Definitely not. I notice the same things when I go back to normal hooks.
Not only that, it has drastically improved Kitty's landing %, and she just started.
Every friend I have had try this method has increased their landing ratio. Even back to back days.
Rod/reels are all the same since I've found my favourites.
Give it a try and you'll be surprised.
Cheers,
Dan
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Hey Dan
What brand spoons are you using in the pics?
They look like they all have the same stamping on he backside but I can't quite make it out.
Any spoon recommendations from personal experience?
Cheers,
Dan
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They're R&B spoons
http://www.trophytackle.ca/collections/rbspoons
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Most of my pics have an R&B spoon.
My spoon recommendations vary actually, depending on target species, etc.
For steelhead/salmon under most/all conditions:
1) R&B - lots of colours, good price, supplied locally (shipping cheap and fast), catch lots of fish, do very well swung, jigged, or retrieved
2) Little Cleo's - colour options are good, good price again, have deadly action and catch tonnes of fish
3) Gibbs - Lots of colour options, lots of different styles, ironheads and koho are great on the swing... price is what turns me off of them
4) RVRFSHR - Not many colour options, normally a decent price, work well swung, but overall a good spoon
*Exception for beach fishing is to put Gibbs at the top of the list, specifically the gold hammered orange stripe croc (3/16 size). At times the crocs work very well in the rivers too, but once in rivers I much more prefer R&B as they can do more (swung, jigged - whereas crocs seem to just do best retrieved and suck on the swing). The R&B also seem to just catch more fish in river period, not sure why. On the beach the R&B's work, just not as well - probably partly due to the casting distance (Gibbs are narrower, so cast farther and don't catch wind).
Trout fishing:
Gibbs and R&B are a top tie. Crocs are deadly, but so are the 3/8 small wobblers R&B has.
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I like the looks of those R&B ones and am going to order a bunch next week. Tied up a few last night with your method on a few of my crocs, but brain-farted and left them on the coffee table this morning. Will try them out tomorrow with undoubted blazing success (how's that for optimism?).
Love to know how and other successful anglers choose what colour throw in - but I'm going to start another thread on that as to not derail this one. I've heard some arguments for copper vs brass vs gold regarding water clarity, but am wondering what would make one choose their specific colour combos.
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The trailer hooks on the R&B spoons worked wonders this weekend....
Over 50 hookups on coho, most of them beautiful specimens like the ones below - give it a try! ;)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10320398_10152270231236612_5413122550610633681_n.jpg?oh=87240f94012673c4b6e4573706cba44d&oe=54CAF08B&__gda__=1421347566_bcbe03fc9ea4976bc4eb7b74120df9f9)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1381711_10152270231416612_5489909110833632381_n.jpg?oh=9ccb4a506dd660be7635633bffc376cb&oe=54C9B8D3&__gda__=1422214787_3e880868a45bc4cb017553eb75de70ea)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1509761_10152270232426612_2427770735214264694_n.jpg?oh=2dfbafba00f5a987d6431fdeb19891fc&oe=54C583B4&__gda__=1421832195_c376798674acba4b500505d43cd320b9)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1969362_10152270232661612_4189880438286075186_n.jpg?oh=96ef44049c88b8cc9a34aaab304299a4&oe=548525CD&__gda__=1417842674_40ca315bd6a115fcbd7d5147c5b97e1f)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10660083_10152270232846612_8089616517016579166_n.jpg?oh=fe90458f5269652ed7f36d372379e038&oe=54C1F1DB&__gda__=1421868493_1d1d450aebe264b8253fc8d47573f637)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/247722_10152270232881612_1587967652886146460_n.jpg?oh=0005186eb2f9dc9276b3166706d47fba&oe=54BC43EF&__gda__=1418211671_8a85db97803d58423e825e93088c081c)
Happy fishing everyone!
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The trailer hooks on the R&B spoons worked wonders this weekend....
Over 50 hookups on coho, most of them beautiful specimens like the ones below - give it a try! ;)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10320398_10152270231236612_5413122550610633681_n.jpg?oh=87240f94012673c4b6e4573706cba44d&oe=54CAF08B&__gda__=1421347566_bcbe03fc9ea4976bc4eb7b74120df9f9)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1381711_10152270231416612_5489909110833632381_n.jpg?oh=9ccb4a506dd660be7635633bffc376cb&oe=54C9B8D3&__gda__=1422214787_3e880868a45bc4cb017553eb75de70ea)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1509761_10152270232426612_2427770735214264694_n.jpg?oh=2dfbafba00f5a987d6431fdeb19891fc&oe=54C583B4&__gda__=1421832195_c376798674acba4b500505d43cd320b9)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1969362_10152270232661612_4189880438286075186_n.jpg?oh=96ef44049c88b8cc9a34aaab304299a4&oe=548525CD&__gda__=1417842674_40ca315bd6a115fcbd7d5147c5b97e1f)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10660083_10152270232846612_8089616517016579166_n.jpg?oh=fe90458f5269652ed7f36d372379e038&oe=54C1F1DB&__gda__=1421868493_1d1d450aebe264b8253fc8d47573f637)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/247722_10152270232881612_1587967652886146460_n.jpg?oh=0005186eb2f9dc9276b3166706d47fba&oe=54BC43EF&__gda__=1418211671_8a85db97803d58423e825e93088c081c)
Happy fishing everyone!
Bought some new spoons from R&B and purchased my 30lb dacron line today!
I can only hope to have 1/4 as much success as you Dan (and Kitty?).
Just take my $$$ and come over to the mainland to teach me your technique ;D
Dan
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Just take my $$$ and come over to the mainland to teach me your technique ;D
Dan
Me too! Dreaming of a day like that.
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--I use a similar system on my trolling/wobble spoons. I use both orange and green Dacron backing.
--Even on smaller wobble type spoons for kokanee. It seems go give some increased action on the hook which may be an attractor at slower speeds. Also allows quick change of hooks and use of a variety of hooks that do not have open eyes for attaching to the spoon.
--Taking lessons learned from one method of fishing and applying them to others can yield nothing or unexpected results.
--I have been trolling traditional river spoons and spinners in larger lakes.. mainly as they give a greater variety of colours and actions. In particular I like to use sickle and circle hooks behind spoons and find them more effective if on a trailer than if attached direct. Also if it is difficult to find sickle hooks with straight open eye or longer shafts that I use on some of the compleat angler tumblers.
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I've tried and got nothing yet, location is key.
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Me too! Dreaming of a day like that.
Hard to have it happen on the mainland, although I have had a few days on the Vedder with 20-30 coho hookups.
All about timing, knowing systems well and figuring out what fish want on any given day.
If you want the insane 50+ fish days with no one around, it's best to head over to the island and explore a bit.
I rarely get skunked at all any more for either coho or steelhead, but those are my main game.
At east with this method, from my experience, you can make best of the chances you do get. Once you have a solid hook set, for the most part, these hooks ain't coming out unless you break the fish off.
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It works!! Got my 2nd coho in as many outings on a 50/50 BC Steel spoon and I added the braid trailing hook. This fish went crazy with many flips and summersaults and I had zero fear of the hook popping out at all. When I landed it I noticed the hook lodged right in the side of the mouth. Thanks for the awesome tip man!! Going to rig all my BC Steel spoons this way. Cheers!!
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nothing but love for the trailer hook method so far, landed some chromers with no fear of the hooks being shaken off. Thanks ED!!
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I wonder if i should do with this my Koho spoons?
I took a few a part today mostly because the paints been chipping a bit on some of them and the others are look pretty haggard so I took some time to clean them up.
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I wonder if i should do with this my Koho spoons?
I took a few a part today mostly because the paints been chipping a bit on some of them and the others are look pretty haggard so I took some time to clean them up.
I have done this with my #45 Koho's and have zero complaints.
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Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but I'm finding using this method results in the hook catching onto the split ring or barrel swivel at the top of the lure on quite a few casts....which then results in a "wasted" cast/retrieve as the spoon is not fishing properly.
Anyone out there dealing with this too?
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Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but I'm finding using this method results in the hook catching onto the split ring or barrel swivel at the top of the lure on quite a few casts....which then results in a "wasted" cast/retrieve as the spoon is not fishing properly.
Anyone out there dealing with this too?
I have. Depends on the spoon size and shape....the smaller the spoon the more often this happens.
I've found you can eliminate this problem for the most part by making the trailer loop as small as possible (such that you can just get the hook through the loop. This shortens up the length of the trailer so that it can't wrap around your leader.
Other than that this is a great set-up! Thanks Everyday! Went from landing about 40-50% to 80-90%
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I have done this with my #45 Koho's and have zero complaints.
I may give it a shot, I don't fish them to lures to often really.
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Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but I'm finding using this method results in the hook catching onto the split ring or barrel swivel at the top of the lure on quite a few casts....which then results in a "wasted" cast/retrieve as the spoon is not fishing properly.
Anyone out there dealing with this too?
This results very often if the loop is tied too long, as others have suggested. You want to aim for a loop that barley fits over the hook. This takes some practice to get it the perfect length, once you know the length and know where to place the knots, it's very quick and easy.
The other side of this, is the benefits highly outweigh the odd "wasted" cast. I'd rather waste a couple casts out of every 100 and have up to a 50% chance greater of landing the next fish I do catch, than have my spoon fish perfectly every cast all day and lose a bunch of fish. A normal trip, I might get 1 or 2 of these occurrences. When it does happen, it's very easy to tell. Quick reel in, little shake of the spoon, and off I go again.
Glad it's working well for most!
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The trailing hook thing is nothing new, the only difference is that ED is using dacron to extend the hook which I have seen done before. I used split rings and a swivel many years ago on Blue Foxes and Koho spoons. The principle is the same and it does increase hookups cause most of you that have used hardware have seen fish follow lures and at the last minute bump or turn away.
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The principle is the same and it does increase hookups cause most of you that have used hardware have seen fish follow lures and at the last minute bump or turn away.
Principle of the barrel swivel to split ring is not the same as this. I've tried both, and landing ratio goes way up with the dacron, every single time I've tried it. They both increase hookups however, and cause less injury (if a smaller hook is used with the split ring/swivel combo, which doesn't seem to be most people's case).
There are no binding points with the dacron, period. With the swivel split ring combo, there are still binding points which give the fish leverage. Try rigging a couple of each up and twist the spoon around, you'll see what I mean. While they both put the hook farther back and increase hookups on picky fish, they don't work the same once a fish is hooked.
Lastly, the dacron is much more cost effective. As I said in an earlier post, I can get 100 hooks (non open eye, regular octopus hooks) for $10. The dacron is 6 bucks and will honestly last 1000's of hooks. So you're pretty much spending 10 cents on your components. With the typical split ring/swivel/open eye hook that I've seen used (lots) you will be no where near that, and if you are, I'd love to hear what open eye hooks you use. I've never seen even just the open eyed hooks at 10 cents a piece - let alone adding in the split ring and barrel swivel cost. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but for myself, the 50 cents per spoon I'm saving when I lose one is a big deal.
And finally, maybe you're right, and you have seen this before. I personally have never seen anyone rig up a spoon with a braided trailer hook before. In my last 2 years of using it, all I get is puzzled looks on the river. It may be hard to believe, but I did indeed come up with this and start using it on my own. I don't really care if I invented it or not, it's something not very commonly seen, it doesn't get used. I wanted to bring light to it so that people could increase landing and decrease injured fish - and finally, see how incredibly easy it is to do!
Cheers
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Not sure if this asked; but could you use braid like power pro instead of dacron?
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Every time I've tried to use braid, the edges of the spoon saw through it. I lost a number of fish, so I quit trying it. The dacron for some reason never really frays, maybe due to the somewhat waxy coating it has.
That being said, I've never tried higher than 20 pound braid. I'd imagine some of that thick 50+ pound stuff would work fairly well, just haven't had it around to try it.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1939601_10151878724981612_138081085_n.jpg?oh=4d9e9af4a0a17376cb724d8168f9fe0e&oe=54956A6A&__gda__=1422628321_892f3cc51ca9ce3de37e064f478bd217)
Cheers,
Dan Krenz
Is this Kitty, or are ya trying out some new Nail polish there Dan
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And finally, maybe you're right, and you have seen this before. I personally have never seen anyone rig up a spoon with a braided trailer hook before. In my last 2 years of using it, all I get is puzzled looks on the river. It may be hard to believe, but I did indeed come up with this and start using it on my own. I don't really care if I invented it or not, it's something not very commonly seen, it doesn't get used. I wanted to bring light to it so that people could increase landing and decrease injured fish - and finally, see how incredibly easy it is to do!
Cheers
--For me the big lesson here is observe a problem and come up with your own solution...just keep fine tuning your idea until you get what works for you. I have adapted many river fishing techniques for use trolling in larger lakes. I use the trailing hook method...especially for kokanee that tend to bite at the back of the lure. I've used Dacron, wire,fluorocarbon and swivels. Each has it own issues and benefits... the fun is in knowing how the modification affects the presentation and hook up and choosing the best rig for the day.
--I often am not as interested in the magic lure as I am in the presentation. Once I know the presentation I can start with something similar and fine tune it as conditions change.
--Great fishing sense and thanks for sharing.
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I have been using this method ever since I saw it in one of Ed's pics a few years back. It has been working great for me ever since. It used to take me a while to tie them up as I was doing them like a stinger hook on a fly. The knot combo in this post has saved me a lot of time. I have also yet to kill a trout using my #4 hooks, the big ones that come stock on spoons would ocassionsly end up through the head of an aggressive trout. So just wanted to say thanks Ed.
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Caught this beautiful Coho today using this hook method. She jumped, twirled, came to shore three times before we managed to land her. I am convinced that this method is the way to go, will never fish a spoon any other way. The guy who helped me land her couldn't believe she didn't spit the hook, and I explained the method and gave him one of my spoons. He was thankful and said he's going to try it on his other spoons.
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Nice fish. I got to get some dacron and rig up my spoons this way.
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Ugh, I need to get some or maybe I'll just peel off some backing from a old fly reel I got. Its full floating from a old 7wt I can't seem get rid off, lol maybe I should just recycle and use that line.
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Great setup that I will start using especially to save on hook costs:)
A couple of questions:
Have you had the fluoro line break on you on species that you are targeting, and what type of fluoro do you use?
Also do you always use the chartreuse colour line?
Cheers!
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Also do you always use the chartreuse colour line?
Cheers!
I used Orange on my gold/brass spoons. Worked well
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I suppose you could match the dacron to the color of your spoons as well? Meaning aside from Brass / Orange but like I have a couple that are green sorta scale color like a bait fish I guess with silver bottoms, could use a green dacron if such a thing exists.
Do you guys find it doesn't really matter?
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I suppose you could match the dacron to the color of your spoons as well? Meaning aside from Brass / Orange but like I have a couple that are green sorta scale color like a bait fish I guess with silver bottoms, could use a green dacron if such a thing exists.
Do you guys find it doesn't really matter?
--Colour the white with a sharpie if you think it makes a difference.
--Might use colour to identify different lenght to the hook or hook size for easy reference.
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--Colour the white with a sharpie is you think it makes a difference.
--Might use colour to identify different length to the hook or hook size for easy reference.
Thats a pretty good idea using it identify length.
Am not really that worried about color, I just wondered if matching the dacron with spoon color or the primary color would be beneficial but thats probably just overthinking it.
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Good post. I will try that.
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Winter steelhead will be in full swing with the rivers dropping after the rains. Spoons are a great way to cover a lot of water and pick up aggressive fish -- try em out this season with the trailing hook method!
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Seems that my spoons are to sharp; Might try with some heavier braid.
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Seems that my spoons are to sharp; Might try with some heavier braid.
That happens occasionally, generally if there is a burr on your spoon, but it shouldn't happen with all of them (I've had 2 out of the hundreds I've used this on). I find that if you have a spoon constantly sawing through the dacron, go to the split ring - swivel - open eye hook method, unless you can somehow file down the burr/sharp edge... If it's happening on all of your spoons, it may be a dacron poundage issue, old line, something like that.
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This hook barley held on
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t35.0-12/10892674_10152443132586612_1375708377_o.jpg?oh=27b95f46595e758915e15a4b99b4f5d9&oe=54A35104&__gda__=1420059605_92c5196ffdac33169352eeba103b5c43)
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As I am new to this forum I have sure learned a lot from the posts here. I tied up some spoons in this manner and it got me a fish first time out.
Thanks for a great post!!
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EveryDay, how does temp affect what setup you bring to the river? I had built up a bit of confidence with my spinning setup over salmon season. Now 3 trips, all be it short trips and nada for steelhead so far.
Im hearing the "look that guy has a coffee grinder", you wont catch anything with that till March or April bla bla bla. I am starting to lose some confidence in it. I couldnt be bothered to take 2 rods, I find it really cuts down mobility when trying to cover water.
I am about to head out again this morning and am at war with myself over bringing the pin or the spin.
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Now 3 trips, all be it short trips and nada for steelhead so far.
You have to realize Everyday knows great spots and knows the holes. If you're fishing the vedder and expecting steelhead on every trip you're sadly setting yourself up for depression.
Remember the steelhead is a fish of 1,000 casts.
I have fished the vedder 15 or so times for steelhead, and im still skunked on that river.
Do not expect to catch fish like Everyday.
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By no means am I expecting to catch fish every time out (yet, lol) and I know that it is still a little early on. Im just wondering if he uses the spinning setup more, less or the same in winter vs summer.
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Im hearing the "look that guy has a coffee grinder", you wont catch anything with that till March or April bla bla bla. I am starting to lose some confidence in it. I couldnt be bothered to take 2 rods, I find it really cuts down mobility when trying to cover water.
I am about to head out again this morning and am at war with myself over bringing the pin or the spin.
Wow, sounds like you are really losing your confidence over stealheading. Put in your time and learn to read the water. And use your weapon wisely. Tight line :D ;)
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DRP79 ... If you are struggling between spin casting or drifting combine the 2 . Use your usual drift set up and tie on your spinners , colarados , dick nites , spoons etc. very effective way to cover a lot of water , hold back on your line near the end of your drift and run it across the current .Watch your depth for snag ups as you now have 18" to 24" of weighted line under your weight if you chose to use one. If you aren't having luck with the flash switch up to roe bags , pinkworms , jenseggs , etc. Your confidence to catch your steely will grow with your ability to read the water to determine were they are holding and by covering lots of water to find those spots . Good luck , its worth it . And don't worry about what other people say , you can easily shut them up by pulling a fish out in front of their feet .
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Read spoon fishing by bill Herzog and spinner fishing by Jed Davis. Great info to explain what you're doing and what you're doing wrong. Fishing not catching.
Tight lines.
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EveryDay, how does temp affect what setup you bring to the river? I had built up a bit of confidence with my spinning setup over salmon season. Now 3 trips, all be it short trips and nada for steelhead so far.
Im hearing the "look that guy has a coffee grinder", you wont catch anything with that till March or April bla bla bla. I am starting to lose some confidence in it. I couldnt be bothered to take 2 rods, I find it really cuts down mobility when trying to cover water.
I am about to head out again this morning and am at war with myself over bringing the pin or the spin.
as others have said its a lot to do with confidence and your ability to find fishy water. so go back to a setup you have caught fish on before and go out and cover water until you can find a few bites
steelhead are definitely a species where 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish
cover water as steelhead are strong and can hold in just about any water type
if you can do a nice drag free drift near unspoked fish theres no reason you shouldnt hook up especailly early in the am
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Remember the steelhead is a fish of 1,000 casts.
Well then I should have caught a lot more by now! ;D
An old truism is that 90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the anglers. The V/C has a rep has being a pretty tough nut to crack partially due to all the pressure and presentations the fish see. I've been able to catch more fish on other rivers but not so many there. I keep trying though. Being there at the right time may have something to do with it.
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EveryDay, how does temp affect what setup you bring to the river? I had built up a bit of confidence with my spinning setup over salmon season. Now 3 trips, all be it short trips and nada for steelhead so far.
Im hearing the "look that guy has a coffee grinder", you wont catch anything with that till March or April bla bla bla. I am starting to lose some confidence in it. I couldnt be bothered to take 2 rods, I find it really cuts down mobility when trying to cover water.
I am about to head out again this morning and am at war with myself over bringing the pin or the spin.
I use to be a firm believer in warmer weather = better spoon fishing.
I had an eye opening experience however two years ago. It was -12C that day, ice forming rapidly on the eyelets after every cast. We came across a hole that had approximately 20 fresh steelhead that had come in the day before (maybe that morning?). This area allowed bait, so we started with roe, moved to pieces of shrimp, then to ghost shrimp. Tried pink worms, jigs, my stonefly nymphs, literally everything else I had in my box. Starting to get discouraged - I half laughed at Kitty when she pulled out her spoon rod. She hit 6 of those steelhead in 7 casts and ended up hooking 12 of them. I was in complete shock.
After that I started using them every day I went out, and would always pick them up in cold weather. The year before last on the Vedder (2013 season) I got 6 steel in 5 trips out in December, along with bulls and bows. Last year I didn't get to fish the Vedder as much as I would have liked, but still got nearly 50 bulls and a half dozen steelhead in 10 trips (it was a great year for bulls!). Spoons work, and they work well, no matter what time of year (I should mention every trip to the Vedder last year was between December/February - no March/April trips).
The coffee grinder comments on the Vedder were my favourite, as I quite often would hit fish right after those guys exited the run. You're obviously not going to hit a steelhead every time out on the Vedder... but I would say your chances on spoons are better than on a float set up (in my personal experience - and by how many I've caught directly behind float guys). Make sure you fish right into the tail outs, and when you think you are done the run (especially in places like Bergman, Brown road in the lower) take another 3 casts (so 15 steps total). You'd be surprised how many fish get forced out of those runs into the chutes -water that is hard for most people to cover - but spoons do it quite well.
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Maybe this will help sway your decision for tomorrow....
36 inch buck on spoons today!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10917901_10152487996101612_7758729096020485551_n.jpg?oh=acde401111fed6a870bd28b23d03114f&oe=5520F751&__gda__=1433265156_21041094b6906fbbac7a529808188d6b)
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Thanks for sharing your idea. I started spoon fishing almost by accident a couple years ago when I found myself in Chilliwack with time on my hands, no vest but a box of spoons and a level-wind. Early success convinced me of the effectiveness of spooning and I change up with floatfishing with a pin. I continue to use a levelwind rather than a spinning outfit. Though I can't cast quite as effectively with really light spoons, the greater control one gets with a levelwind is more important to me. Your ideas regarding the hook rigging and fluorocarbon attachment are now part of my arsenal. Really great stuff. Had great results this fall on Coho.
Weird thing happened the other day though. I made a short cast and was into a steelhead at the start of the swing. It immediately jumped and ,though I bowed, the spoon flew deep into the trees behind me. I was amazed when it came out of the thick branches easily! It did because the Dacron had slid through the eyelet of the hook, leaving the hook in the steelhead. The Dacron was frayed, but not broken. I haven't been out since, but I've used pliers to try to eliminate any space between the eyelet and the shank( broke a few), on all my spoon hooks. Has anyone else had this happen; its shaken my enthusiasm for the trailing hook rigging. I'd like to think its a one off and, by tightening the eyelets, I'll be able to fish with confidence. I suppose the only way to find out is to hook and maybe lose a steelhead. The enhanced landing rate with this method is obvious, so experiment I will.
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Everyday, would you mind sharing your opinion on using trailer hook wire (Rio's knottable wire, Senyo stinger wire, etc) instead of dacron? I'm not sure if it would be an advantage, disdvantage, or not matter at all to have the hook connected to such a stiff wire.
The method I have used is to put my trailer hook in my tying vise, cut a length of wire (I like the Rio knottabe wire), and feed the two cut ends through the hook eye, fold over and tie down (base of thread laid first). Basicially the same thing people do when making their trailer hook on an intruder. I'll tie up a dozen or whatever and put them in a small container like a film container.
From there I just loop them through the lower eye of the spoon and they are good to go.
Honestly I have not noticed a huge diff in my landing %, but then again I dont fish spoons that often, primarily for coho.
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Maybe this will help sway your decision for tomorrow....
36 inch buck on spoons today!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10917901_10152487996101612_7758729096020485551_n.jpg?oh=acde401111fed6a870bd28b23d03114f&oe=5520F751&__gda__=1433265156_21041094b6906fbbac7a529808188d6b)
Im too stubborn to give up that easy, lol. I hit a dime bright 10-12lb wild today on the spinning setup. Hit a 2/3oz Silver R&B and put on a little dance. Sure was fun on the lighter gear. Im not sure the pin or the level wind will make it out this year.
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Wouldn't adding another split ring between the hook and spoon have the same effect? (Two in total between the hook and spoon) And you wouldn't have to worry about knot strength or fraying?
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Wouldn't adding another split ring between the hook and spoon have the same effect? (Two in total between the hook and spoon) And you wouldn't have to worry about knot strength or fraying?
The splits can bind more than the line. Plus it's not as cool. ;)
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Weird thing happened the other day though. I made a short cast and was into a steelhead at the start of the swing. It immediately jumped and ,though I bowed, the spoon flew deep into the trees behind me. I was amazed when it came out of the thick branches easily! It did because the Dacron had slid through the eyelet of the hook, leaving the hook in the steelhead. The Dacron was frayed, but not broken. I haven't been out since, but I've used pliers to try to eliminate any space between the eyelet and the shank( broke a few), on all my spoon hooks. Has anyone else had this happen; its shaken my enthusiasm for the trailing hook rigging. I'd like to think its a one off and, by tightening the eyelets, I'll be able to fish with confidence. I suppose the only way to find out is to hook and maybe lose a steelhead. The enhanced landing rate with this method is obvious, so experiment I will.
What hooks are you using? I would in no way recommend an open eyed hook, use a matzou, gammy, etc. 1/0 for a sickle hook, size 1 for octopus.
I've hooked well over 200 steelhead now on this method and have never once had a hook do that. I have at times had the braid slide through the eye at the top, so that it was just the hook sitting on the braid (rather than sitting nicely - just kind of hanging on the braid), but have never had one come completely off. The only hooks I've ever noticed this happen with are the Matzou sickles, as the eye at times doesn't seem to be closed all the way.
Everyday, would you mind sharing your opinion on using trailer hook wire (Rio's knottable wire, Senyo stinger wire, etc) instead of dacron? I'm not sure if it would be an advantage, disdvantage, or not matter at all to have the hook connected to such a stiff wire.
I can't comment in it 100% as I haven't done it. The reason I haven't done it was due to a few things.
1) The way the hook sits on the spoon may not work well, since it is thick. I got the feel the braid might kink and fray/break (think of the tremendous amount of force on the wire in the places it does contact the spoon at the back (You'll see what I mean if you rig one with wire).
2) I wanted the trailer to be completely free moving so that when fish roll, etc there are no binding points and no leverage. I thought wire would be too stiff. Possibly your finding of not landing many more fish may be because of the stiffer wire and the fish have a bit of leverage (speculation - not sure).
3) I wanted to have a method easy to do on the river. I use to tie mine up the way you described. Took a while, and I found myself at times on long weekend trips out of hooks. Now if I run out, 30 seconds on the river bank and I have a new one.
Wouldn't adding another split ring between the hook and spoon have the same effect? (Two in total between the hook and spoon) And you wouldn't have to worry about knot strength or fraying?
No, it wouldn't.
The hook would not sit properly (the hook would be side ways rather than facing -tip up- towards the bottom of the spoon). There would also be a large binding point = more lost fish. I also, personally, trust my knots and 30 pound dacron more than a lot of the split rings on the market as I have had a bunch bend out on me.
Lots of guys use a split ring --> swivel --> open eye hook. This works effectively by still dropping the hook back. The only problems I have with it are: generally it's done with bigger hooks (fish injuries), and secondly, there are still the odd binding points which help fish get off!
Im too stubborn to give up that easy, lol. I hit a dime bright 10-12lb wild today on the spinning setup. Hit a 2/3oz Silver R&B and put on a little dance. Sure was fun on the lighter gear. Im not sure the pin or the level wind will make it out this year.
Awesome man! Congrats! You'll be hooked forever now. I always hate when I have to use the pin now - much rather prefer to swing spoons or flies.
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Thank you for that tip on wire vs. braid. I'm thinking you are probably right. Next time I decide to do a "spoon day" with my spinning rod I'll give the dacron a try. I don't catch many steelhead so in order for me to give it a true test I'll have to wait for the fall salmon this year :)
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so far ive been doubling up 15lb seagaur sts floro as i didnt have any dacron when i tied the hook to the spoon. its done the trick just fine held up to a spring off the beach and some chums in the river.
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Hey guys!
I changed the original post to a blog post. This was to account for the constant changing of facebook picture locations, which would result in gaps in my original post.
The method has continued to work well. Hopefully it's been working for others as well!
Here's the blog post:
https://outdooraddictions.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/the-trailing-hook-method/
Cheers!
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Thanks for this - I picked up some Dacron (5c / yard at Army & Navy) and am looking forward to tying up some spoons this way for the upcoming Pinks season. Really appreciate the knowledge share and will report back on how it goes.
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Will be giving this a try for sure.
Will this work just as effective as being fished under a float? I'm really turned off by spinning reels lol but that might be because I really only use it for small trout and its a cheap one. I'm sure tossing a spoon on a spinning reel will have a different effect but will it work just as good under a float?
Have you tried it under a float Everyday?
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Will this work just as effective as being fished under a float? I'm really turned off by spinning reels lol but that might be because I really only use it for small trout and its a cheap one. I'm sure tossing a spoon on a spinning reel will have a different effect but will it work just as good under a float?
We swing all of our spoons. I enjoy this style the most, since you can cover a heck of a lot of water in a day (working a grid system), and the hits are HARD. I couldn't imagine putting them under a float, it would just defeat the purpose for me (I also really enjoy that with spoon fishing, I have a nice light rod, a spool of leader, and a box of spoons, and that's it).
If you did put them under a float, I would recommend getting the 3/8 stubby spoons. I'd set slightly deeper than the depth of the run, cast far, and hold back slightly to "work" it across the run like you would a colorado. It won't have the same effect as an actual swung spoon IMO, but it would probably work. I also wouldn't really like the wake that the float would make.
You also don't NEED a spinning reel for spoons. If you have a level wind, that will work just fine for chucking metal as well. Some guys prefer using a level wind for spoons since it allows them to feather line if they need to.
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For the "swinging spoons" method that you prefer, what rod-length (and weight-rating) do you find optimal ?
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I prefer light or medium light rods for most rivers (some exceptions like the Thompson, etc).
Anything 4-8, 6-10 rated. Fast action.
I prefer a whippy noodle to be honest... Really, it's all about what you like and feel comfortable with.
Anything in the 9 foot to 10 foot 6 range.
Lots of good ones on the market. I am rocking TFO's right now for most rivers, and bumping up to the Trophy Coh King's for the larger rivers/bigger fish.
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I'm going to give this a go pink fishing this year. I wonder if it will help those notoriously slippery suckers to stay on.
I might it rig this way and not tell the others guys i'm fishing with and see who's land ratio is best.
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The great thing about this is you can have a number of hook/Dacron trailers set up and change them up as the wear and tear and hooks sharpness will diminish after a few hook ups and gravel/ boulder strikes.
Stainless sharpen well but if you're swapping out hooks what's a few extra inches of dacron.
Staying sharp and active.
Great idea and post Dan.
Haven't run into you in a while; but perhaps on the Island this summer.
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The great thing about this is you can have a number of hook/Dacron trailers set up and change them up as the wear and tear and hooks sharpness will diminish after a few hook ups and gravel/ boulder strikes.
Stainless sharpen well but if you're swapping out hooks what's a few extra inches of dacron.
Staying sharp and active.
Great idea and post Dan.
Haven't run into you in a while; but perhaps on the Island this summer.
Very true. If we wreck a hook point, I'll commonly just swap out the hook if the dacron loop still looks al-right. I normally have a whole bunch tied up any way, and will change out the entire hook set up out once I wreck a hook. Never hurts to have a completely new set up.
I have noticed that this year, since we are getting a lot of fish on every spoon before we lose them, that the dacron should be changed after every 5 or so fish. We've lost a few fish now due to being lazy and not changing the trailer out, which resulted in the dacron breaking.
Back on the mainland again for the summer, so it might be tough to run into me on the island ;D
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I'm a new member to this forum, but have been following this thread with interest the last couple of months. I have a variety of spoons (ovals and wobblers) from different manufacturers. I've done the Dacron thang on each of them, then tested the breaking strength. I very much like the approach and can't wait to try it out this fall. Three questions for you:
1. R&B spoons tend to cut the Dacron so it breaks at a much lower poundage than the other models. My proposed solution is to leave the split ring on the bottom, and loop the Dacron to the ring and then the hook. I don't think a spoon-ring-Dacron-hook set-up is going to cause any more binding than the split ring-less approach recommended here. Any thoughts on this?
2. The double granny knot arrangement had me a bit flummoxed. I experimented and right now am putting an overhand knot in the Dacron, then tying a second overhand knot to seat on top of (and a little 'upstream') the first knot. While I haven't tested it on scales, it seems to hold well: no pull outs to date. Can you describe how you do it?
3. Where in BC or the US can we buy your preferred hooks on-line at the right price?
* * * * *
This thread may be something that the salmon and steelhead conservation groups will want to pick up on an circulate to their members. No more 2/0 or 3/0 hooks need be used, ever.
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1. R&B spoons tend to cut the Dacron so it breaks at a much lower poundage than the other models. My proposed solution is to leave the split ring on the bottom, and loop the Dacron to the ring and then the hook. I don't think a spoon-ring-Dacron-hook set-up is going to cause any more binding than the split ring-less approach recommended here. Any thoughts on this?
I've only had a few R&B spoons do this. The odd time the bottom hole is sharp and will cut. In the 2, nearly 3 years I've been tossing R&B's, I've only ever had 2 spoons that presented a problem.
The split ring isn't a problem as far as binding goes, but it is a problem. We tried that originally, and found that it was actually quite common for the dacron to work its way off the split ring, especially when fighting fish. If you check to see that your dacron isn't working its way off the split ring every once in a while, and check it after every fish, it shouldn't be an issue, but it has happened to us.
2. The double granny knot arrangement had me a bit flummoxed. I experimented and right now am putting an overhand knot in the Dacron, then tying a second overhand knot to seat on top of (and a little 'upstream') the first knot. While I haven't tested it on scales, it seems to hold well: no pull outs to date. Can you describe how you do it?
All the double knot system I do is, is a double granny knot. The key with my system is that the second granny knot passes through the first one. So... you tie the first granny knot, then do another granny knot right over top of the second one, passing the tag end of the second granny not through the hole that the first granny knot forms.
The double granny knot as you describe (one above another) has pulled out on me before. It also doesn't seem to ride as nicely in the water in that form. You could always try pulling hard and sliding the knots up against each other, (this will happen under a lot of load anyway) to try and offset the way it rides.
3. Where in BC or the US can we buy your preferred hooks on-line at the right price?
The reason I use Matzou hooks is because they are incredibly cheap. I also like their shape, and how sharp they are. They also have an overly large eye on all their sizes, so it's much easier to pass dacron through, even on smaller hooks.
That being said, any hook will work. You can go with gammies, owners, or any other favourite hook you have.
If you want to buy Matzou's, Cabela's is definitely your best bet. They run $3 for a pack of 25 hooks. I use to get them in the states all the time until the new Cabela's came to Nanaimo. I've also seen Matzou's as Canadian Tire, but they are more expensive there.
Hope that all helps!
Dan
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Very helpful, E. Day.
1. I hadn't thought about the Dacron coming off the split ring. That's happened to me with new hooks and rings on spoons, so I can see it being a potential fatal flaw if a trophy worked free in that fashion. I will check my other other R&B lures: I just pulled this one out of the box (2/3 oz silver-gold oval). I will leave traditional rings-hooks in place on those spoons where there are burrs or edges, and then use Dacron on the smoothies.
2. Noted (knotted?)
3. Cabela's. My goodness . . . more money going to Cabela's . . . I hope one of my kids marries into the family, but you can't beat the prices and the service is good so I'll keep on spending there.
Thanks for the quick reply, too.
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All the double knot system I do is, is a double granny knot. The key with my system is that the second granny knot passes through the first one. So... you tie the first granny knot, then do another granny knot right over top of the second one, passing the tag end of the second granny not through the hole that the first granny knot forms.
The double granny knot as you describe (one above another) has pulled out on me before. It also doesn't seem to ride as nicely in the water in that form. You could always try pulling hard and sliding the knots up against each other, (this will happen under a lot of load anyway) to try and offset the way it rides.
For the knot I have been using the surgeons end loop http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/surgeons-end-loop/ (http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/surgeons-end-loop/) I am not sure if this is what you have described, but in my stress tests using this the component that has failed was not the knot, but the hook snapping (Matzuo size 1 Octopus sickle) and that took a lot of load.
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so finally got a chance to rig some of these up. I bought some 3/8 spoons as well, (by accident) I didnt feel like returning them so i said ill try to figure a way to use them. I was able to pass the knot through the hole on the spoon.
the easiest way is to make sure the knot is nice and neat making it the smallest possible, DONT cut the tag ends, feed the tag ends through the hole of the spoon thus using the tag ends to pull the knot through. I only had one that i had difficulty pulling through but that was in part because my knot was a little bulky when pulled tight but my others slid right through. Couldn't notice any damage to the knot but I'll be testing these out Monday or Tuesday depending on how work goes.
One question on the knots. when I form the second granny knot, I was passing my tag ends through BOTH loops, kinda like having the loops on top of each other and just feeding the tag ends through both loops. Not sure if you were doing it JUST through the FIRST loop and avoiding the second loop.
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so finally got a chance to rig some of these up. I bought some 3/8 spoons as well, (by accident) I didnt feel like returning them so i said ill try to figure a way to use them. I was able to pass the knot through the hole on the spoon.
I should have corrected that on there, as I have been able to pass the knot through most 3/8 spoons as well. I believe the one batch of 3/8 spoons I had either had a smaller hole, or there was build up of the lacquer on the bottom hole. If it's just a build up of lacquer on the hole, I have just used my pocket knife to poke it out, and then the knots will pass through. Great hook rigging method for trout as they don't get mutilated by it, especially if you drop to a size 4 hook.
One question on the knots. when I form the second granny knot, I was passing my tag ends through BOTH loops, kinda like having the loops on top of each other and just feeding the tag ends through both loops. Not sure if you were doing it JUST through the FIRST loop and avoiding the second loop.
Go through both loops.
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Ok yeh thats what I was doing going through both loops...We'll see if this will get me into my first steelhead tomorrow.
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Dan, you ever try just using a double surgeons knot ?
I did a bunch up for my son and I to use over the Easter weekend while camping in Chilliwack with friends. I had some 20lb braid on hand and I could not for the life of me break it using a double surgeons but I did straighten out a #2 owner. I think it'll hold plenty enough for any fish :)
Best part is the thin 20lb braid fits through the lure hole easily (might even be 25lb actually)
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Dan, you ever try just using a double surgeons knot ?
I did a bunch up for my son and I to use over the Easter weekend while camping in Chilliwack with friends. I had some 20lb braid on hand and I could not for the life of me break it using a double surgeons but I did straighten out a #2 owner. I think it'll hold plenty enough for any fish :)
Best part is the thin 20lb braid fits through the lure hole easily (might even be 25lb actually)
I don't see the double surgeon's nots being an issue, it's almost the same knot for the most part.
I tried this method for approximately a year and a half before finally publishing/posting it. I wanted to make sure I had bugs sorted out, and that it would work well, and do the things I said it did.
I tried braid, of all types and sizes. Plain and simple it didn't work (up to 55 pound braid). I cringe when I see people posting on the threads I've made that they are going to try it with braid. The braid gets sawed through by the bottom of the spoon very quickly. It almost always resulted in lost fish. The braid was also thin enough that it pulled through the gap in the eye of the hook and we would occasionally lose hooks and just come back with the braid loop.
For the best results with this method, stick to what I put on-line. You can alter the knots as you like if you think they will hold. I tried a few, and settled on this one as I feel confident with it after it's never pulled out. If you play around with the braid/dacron, you run the real risk of losing fish. I've had a few people now state in threads/posts that "this method doesn't work because my braid breaks." The 30 lb dacron won't break, and if it's about to (this has only happened after a dozen or so fish), you can physically see it fraying all over the place and change it out. The 30 lb dacron costs next to nothing - better safe than sorry IMO.
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Totally agree Dan,
Just like your leader.
If you question it change it!
Don't need to squeeze every cent out of your terminal tackle.
Whether it be hooks and roe bags or anything else.
Hooks only stay sharp for so long and leader and knots get stressed as well.
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: I've finally bought a new scale, the old Chantillion having expired after 20 years and maybe 10,000 test knots. For the life of me, I can't get the Dacron loop to break at more than 12-13lbs. OK, that's not strictly true. If I do a loop-to-loop with two split rings, I've had the double-overhand knot (tied as explained above) break at up to 27lbs. But when looped through a spoon-hole (RandB plus three other no-name wobbler brands), the line breaks (or cuts) at 12-13lbs pull. The knots aren't pulling out and the breaks are all just below the doubled knot where the edge of the spoon cuts (abrades) through. I'm using slow pull, not a jerk.
Now that's not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination. I fish old baitcasters that don't put more than 5lbs of drag out even if locked tight. With my thumb on the spool and a big spring headed downstream maybe I can goose the number to 10lbs before my blistered thumb comes off the spool. And with 15lb Chameleon being my leader of choice, there's certainly some appeal to saving a few bucks when you're snagged and pulling the Dacron loop till it breaks before the leader loop knot. That's a $$$ savings worth quite a lot over the course of a season. So I doubt that even a fresh fish is going to break off in that fashion. But still . . . 12-13lbs vs. a 30lb rated strength is not doing very well.
But I have this nagging doubt that I'm tying the knots wrong. Or maybe the Cabela's Prestige 30bl fluoro yellow Dacron I'm using isn't the right brand. So if someone on the board could test a couple of their loop breaking strengths using a scale and real spoon, then I'd be very interested in seeing the results.
Thanks in advance!
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In desperation I rolled the knots on the loops in Aquaseal and let it dry overnight. This a.m. I tested 3 at random: I stopped pulling at 20+ lbs on the first two, and the third one broke right at 20lbs. So I suspect that the problem was that the waxed Dacron was slipping a little, making it abrade more readily.
I'll do more tests tonight, but I think that a dab of contact cement, Goop or Aquaseal could be the ticket.
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Interesting find!
I have noticed that on the odd occasion, I get some abrasion near the spoon attachment. This rarely results in lost fish for me, and only happens when I've become lazy and keep the same hook on for say more than 5 fish. I've never worried about it. We have landed a heck of a lot of good fish 16+ this year, without breaking any braided loops off (as I said - with exception to when we got lazy on some HUGE fish # days and stopped changing frayed connections after multiple fish).
It's interesting you were talking about savings via the loop breaking - I can tell you I hoped for it (even "popping" the rod gently to try and get a sawing action), but it doesn't work. I have yet to break off a trailer set up on a spoon on a snag, no matter how much I pop it or try different angles, etc. The only thing I have done is bent the occasional hook out when I've only say hooked the point on a stick/log and can leverage and pull the point outwards.
Cool that you fixed the problem though with a dab of goo.
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In desperation I rolled the knots on the loops in Aquaseal and let it dry overnight. This a.m. I tested 3 at random: I stopped pulling at 20+ lbs on the first two, and the third one broke right at 20lbs. So I suspect that the problem was that the waxed Dacron was slipping a little, making it abrade more readily.
I'll do more tests tonight, but I think that a dab of contact cement, Goop or Aquaseal could be the ticket.
I just tried making this loop with 2 overhand knots tightened then seated with super glue - no need to let it dry overnight. The line broke around the hook loop indicating the strength of the 2 glued knots exceeds the 30lb test of the dacron - but I'd expect that given the knot is tied in doubled line. Without the glue I could break the knot at a much lower strain which is consistent with what you've found.
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Hadn't thought of superglue. Very good suggestion, Ralph. This is easier to work with, esp. if you keep Aquaseal in the freezer as I do (to keep an opened tube from hardening on the shelf as happens otherwise). Of course, you now have to worry about gluing your fingers together . . . or a spoon body to the wife's coffee table . . . :o
I confirm that each of the three batches of loops dabbed in Aquaseal has a breaking strength exceeding 20lbs.
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As i posted a little while ago i rigged some of these up using the exact method. Tried them out on my first trip. Empty handed. Today was my 2nd time out and hooked and landed a 13-15lb buck. Colored but he still smashed the spoon. I saw the fish enter the pool and within 30 secs took the spoon. I fished this under a float as all i had with me was the center pin. Hook was nicely placed in the corner of the mouth. Was lodged in there pretty good. Had no worries of breaking at all.
Thanks everyday, you helped me land my first steelhead...ever. I had a pretty big grin on my face.
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What's the point of applying Aquaseal or crazy glue if the source of the break isn't the knot ?
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The line is fraying and then breaking "at" the knot, which is to say that immediately below the knot(s). So the knots are intact, but there line is broken off flush with the knot. Technically, I don't think that the knot is breaking, but that the line is breaking at the knot.
Rolling the knot in Aquaseal somehow helps increase the breaking strength of the knot/ the line terminating into the knot. Maybe it makes for a stronger knot, or perhaps what's happening is that the Aquaseal coating on the line is reducing abrasion. Either explanation is fine by me.
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Thanks everyday, you helped me land my first steelhead...ever. I had a pretty big grin on my face.
Awesome to hear! Hopefully one of many to come.
As for the dacron breaking below the knots - I'd be very interested to know how many other people are having these issues out there? I, for whatever reason, haven't had the dacron break on me except for the very odd occasion (and generally I've attributed that to a specific spoon or two). I'm wondering if it has to do with how tightly you pull on the line and cinch down the knot before you add it to the spoon? I use pliers to cinch my knots down generally, grabbing the hook gap tightly with my finger and then holding the tag ends with the pliers to get a good pull to tighten the knots down. After that I add it to the spoon.
I'm glad though that you've found a solution (and an easy one) to the problem. That is exactly what is great about these forums. Always able to further improve and develop new methods! I'll definitely keep the aquaseal dab in mind if I ever have the problem.
One question Snagly - are you adding the dab onto the dacron once it's looped on the spoon or before? If adding it after, it's quite possible that the aquaseal stops the dacron from sliding back and forth on the spoon completely - effectively holding the dacron in place on the metal on either side of the spoon and not allowing movement to cause abrasion?
Cheers,
Dan
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Of all the steelhead I've hooked this season using this method only two were lost because of the dracon line breaking. I do inspect it often and change it out when it shows some wear.
When tying the double granny knot I tend to end up with a longer than desired length so when i attach it to the spoon I'll put the knot though the hole and over the hook twice and pull it tight. It stays in place and doesn't slide against the spoon.
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What's the point of applying Aquaseal or crazy glue if the source of the break isn't the knot ?
prior to the glue the source of break was the knot - the knots actually slipped. It's very weak at about 20 to 25% of the breaking strength of the line. This works in application because the strength of the doubled line is about 60lbs yielding a pre-failure strength of 12 to 15lbs minimum which is more than enough and maybe more than the leader most of the time.. I've been applying super glues to knots on braid (biminis and albrights where the tag can slip) for a number years.
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Every Day Dan: I'd rather not glue the Dacron knots once they're in the spoon for fear of gumming up the hole in the spoon making it a lot harder to swap hardware down the road. Instead, I'm building the loops separately (e.g. cutting 7" of Dacron, double knotting it to form a loop, trimming and then rolling the knot in a dab of Aquaseal--or Superglue--before allowing it to dry overnight. Then threading on a hook and storing it a small Ziploc, or putting it onto a spoon body). But there IS glue on the two Dacron 'legs' just below the knot. This could be reducing abrasion.
I've not been tightening the knots with pliers. Instead, I'm opening up the loop from within, hooking both index fingers through and pulling in opposite directions. In those cases where the two granny knots weren't quite touching one another, this procedure ensures that they end up merged into one bigger lump.
I have to caution that I've not fished the above setup, I'm only testing it with handscales and imported beer. But I'm now getting the Dacron loops to break at 20lbs which is plenty more than I'd ever need.
Sugartooth: I was thinking along the same lines as you, namely "double looping" the Dacron loop to the spoon to spread the stress a little further.
Ralph H: do you have issues with the Superglue dissolving or wearing out? I no longer glue Biminis with ordinary Superglue. If in the salt or an extreme fishing situation, I stumped up for a small bottle of Loctite 406 (thanks to the suggestion of the late Max Garth). That is a special formulation Superglue that marries well to gelspun polyethylene (a.k.a., braid). I suspect, but don't know, that the 'ordinary' Krazy Glue from the corner store will work fine with Dacron.
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Curious what lb. test Dacron you guys are using ?
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30lb Cabela's, fluoro yellow (though I doubt the color makes a difference) with a waxy coating. Breaks at 32-33lbs if tied with 100% knots (e.g. doubled line uniknots)
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Ralph H: do you have issues with the Superglue dissolving or wearing out?
No but all the knots I use are proven near 100% strength so using glue is overkill. Primarily I use it to fix the tag locks on albrights and biminis as these can slip. CA glues or super glue has been used for fixing knots and wound thread for decades as has other glue like pliobond , epoxy and aquaseal with great results so I don't see any issues. Served thread splices or loops fixed with superglue don't fail even when the glue cracks and the surface starts to wear or fray.
Even knots with close to 100% strength are subject to strain and wear in use. I've lost good fish because I neglected to retie a knot in terminal tackle when the fishing was hot. Given the inherent weakness of a double overhand knot I'd recommend people consider this and swap the knot out which given how easy this is to do should be quick and simple.
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Rather than dacron, would a split ring and snap swivel work just as well and limit the chance of breakage?
Also, is the length of the dacron important?
I have a favorite spoon around 3/5 onze I like but they come with 4/0 or 5/0 hooks, which appear incredibly oversized and I want to downsize the hooks to minimize damage to fish. I presume the length between the spoon and hook helps to compensate for a large sized spoon potentially blocking a clean hook set with a smaller hook?
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Rather than dacron, would a split ring and snap swivel work just as well and limit the chance of breakage?
I believe it would work, but wouldn't be as bind proof as the Dacron.
Also, is the length of the dacron important?
It's important, it has to have enough room to fit the hook through.
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Dave Murphy demonstrated something like this swivels and snap rings on Sportsfishing Bc many years back.
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Dave Murphy demonstrated something like this swivels and snap rings on Sportsfishing Bc many years back.
Great.
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Anyone use the Dacron loops to attach singles to plugs? I was converting Kwikfishes and Tadpollies the other night and decided to use Dacron loops rather than the split ring-swivel-split ring-Siwash approach I used previously. I particularly enjoy casting (or freespooling) them out when wading, and reeling slowwwly through the hole for Springs.
Wondering what others' experiences have been.
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Anyone use the Dacron loops to attach singles to plugs? I was converting Kwikfishes and Tadpollies the other night and decided to use Dacron loops rather than the split ring-swivel-split ring-Siwash approach I used previously. I particularly enjoy casting (or freespooling) them out when wading, and reeling slowwwly through the hole for Springs.
Wondering what others' experiences have been.
--Lots of the older wooden plugs used to come rigged with Dacron loops. ...especially for your purpose...slow retireve.. remember many of these plugs were designed for trolling when using oars.
--I think the hook swings free...due to less weight and adds action on a slow retrieve. On faster retireves or trolling at higher speeds with a motor... may not add much to the action. I don't think any of these different methods are wrong... they just give a different action to your lure thus you can fine tune it to your application once you know how you want to present the lure.
--I use this on some of my Lyman wood plugs when trolling fresh water for kokanee or sockeye whe we troll at 1-1.2 mph or less.
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A short note to report that I experienced mixed results with two hook models recommended for the 30lb dacron loops. No problem threading the doubled dacron through the eye of the Matzuo 1/0 sickle hooks, but no go with the #1 Matzuo octopus models I also bought from Cabela's. Suggest that fans of the octopus model step it up to 1/0 as well.
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A short note to report that I experienced mixed results with two hook models recommended for the 30lb dacron loops. No problem threading the doubled dacron through the eye of the Matzuo 1/0 sickle hooks, but no go with the #1 Matzuo octopus models I also bought from Cabela's. Suggest that fans of the octopus model step it up to 1/0 as well.
I find to fit it through the size 1 octopus you have to roll the dacron in your fingers and push it through the eye. The size 1 octopus and the size 1/0 sickle are the same size hook wise. You should be able to fit the dacron loop through even the size 4 matzou eyes, which is why I use them (they have a very large size eye for the hook size). See if the finger rolling trick works before upping in size (the 1/0 tend to flex a bit more than the 1's, which I'm not too keen on).
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Finally got out on the water with the spoon-and-Dacron combination. Nose-hooked a 33" Spring on an old Mortac #3 after several short strikes . . . tap, tap, tap, PULL. I think the trailing hook worked when my standard 2/0 Gami Siwash may have come up short. The 1/0 Matzuo was partially opened, so I swapped it out.
So with a single real life example to report, Every Day's method is batting 1.000.
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More data points from spring fishing with the trailing hook. Feel that the hookup and landed percentages are higher with the loops than without. Would need many (many) more than 15 hookups to validate this theory, but I'm convinced to the point where I'm swapping 100% of old style #6 split rings and 2/0 Siwashes before fishing.
On the plug front, have gone 1-for-2 on landed fish using a Dacron loop and dangling 1/0 Siwash under an M2 or K14 which is then cast and reeled up slow. Very early days here, but I think it will be a winner, too. 8)
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Tried out this trailer hook method using 30lb braid. Fishing was slow as I only hooked 1 but landed it with the trailer hook using 30lb braid. I'll keep experimenting , but so far so good! (http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/ficfic/P8010510_zpsyqrrpiaq.jpg)
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^
I'm digging the pink spoon tape
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That looks great i will be trying that 100%.
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Couple more observations after Sep-Oct use on the Skeena & tribs:
1. Matzuo 1/0 hooks straighten out too often to be trusted on big fish. I've lost 3 large steelhead to partially-opened hooks, likely nose-hooked bucks. That was too many so I started looking for alternatives. At Canadian Tire, I found Eagle Claw L-1 style octopus hooks in #1 and #1/0 sizes which are of heavier gauge stainless steel. Too early to say how well they'll do, but for now they are holding up.
2. I couldn't find the exact hooks online for a cheaper bulk purchase, but at luremaking.com 100 Eagle Claw 1/0 Octopus hooks were $12 plus postage. It's a Canadian outfit, so the postage wasn't too bad and the service was prompt. (They have a minimum order of $20 so I bought some lure tape as well for jazzing up the spoons.)
3. Threading that Dacron loop through the hook eye can be tricky with the Eagle Claws. Here's a trick from an old trout fisherman who saw me struggling. Take your preformed loop of Dacron. Threat a short length of mono through the loop. Feed both ends of the mono through the hook eye. Pull on the two mono ends to draw the loop through the hook eye every time with no muss or fuss. Remove mono and rig as per normal.
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After many more hookups and fish, I'm convinced that the trailing hook method hooks a higher percentage of strikes and lands a higher percentage of those fish hooked than does a Siwash. The trailing hook has to date hooked 1 (out of maybe 75) springs and steelhead outside the mouth, and there's been one spoon swallowed (a spring, which I kept) with resulting heavy bleeding. So I don't think the method leads to snagging fish in the face, or more hooks in the gillrakers.
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Hey Snagly.
Just curious, were all the hooks that bent out from a single pack? I have had a couple bad packs lately. I got in the habit of giving my hooks a good torque with my finger before putting them on. If they have any bend, I tend to just use them as a shank for intruders and don't use them on my spoons. I haven't had any problems with bend outs on the matzou's since then.
Obviously any hooks work though, and I highly recommend people play with what they have confidence in. I have just always liked that matzou's based on their shape, their cheap expense, and how razor sharp they are.
It's very interesting that you have a deep bleeder hook up on this. I invented it to avoid that completely. I've had maybe one deep hooked fish out of many hundreds now in the last 3 or so years (and thankfully that one wasn't bleeding somehow). I'm curious to see how many more you get deep like that, and how many more other people get. I'm still convinced that this method drastically reduces mortality due to bleeding. The extra hook ups and landing are just a bonus. The hit is the fun part anyway :P
Cheers,
Dan
And thanks for the feedback! Keep it coming everyone!
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The Matzuos were from multiple packs, but the same Cabela's order. I don't think they were bad batches, just the combination of 20lb or so fish hooked in the nose and being fought on tight drags in heavy water.
Today I hooked and landed two steelhead on the #1 Eagle Claw L1 Octopus style hooks I just purchased. I landed both (31"+ and 33"+) bucks fishing drift gear, and noted that both hooks had partially opened even though both were hooked in the jaw and the fights hadn't been particularly stressful. So I'm already looking for another hook.
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As for the bleeder, the spring simply swallowed the spoon and the hook lodged even farther down the gullet than an old style Siwash would have. I kept it (my one fish for the month from this Skeena trib) and ate it. So at least it didn't go to waste.
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(http://www.thefishaddict.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/image3.jpeg)
I will only fish spoons using this method now. I have yet to lose a hooked fish.
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Couple more hookups on Friday resulted in partially opened Eagle Claw #1/0 Octopus L1 hooks. I've taken them off, and view them as less reliable than the Matzuo's (which don't open up unless the fish is nose-hooked).
I dug out a packet of 1/0 Gami Octopus hooks and had no problem threading the 30lb Dacron loop using the mono trick (as described above). I think that #1 Gami Octopus hooks will be big enough for spoon applications.
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Reporting in that I've corresponded with EveryDay about the several deep hooked and/or bleeders I encountered over the summer and fall. He suggested reducing the loop to 1" to 1.25". Mine vary from 1.25"-1.75" right now. That should help.
EveryDay asked if the Matzuo's sickles were from the same batch (they were). He asked if I had any octopus Matzuo's (I do, but they're not with me now that I've left BC) and suggested I try those as they are made of heavier gauge steel. So that's another option.
On the hook front, I've bitten the bullet and bought a lot of Owner SSW 1/0 octopus hooks. Big eyes, thicker gauge steel and legendary sharpness. I won't be putting them into action till next year but I'm busy tying up smaller loops, rolling the knots in a dab of Aquaseal to rule out any slippage, and pinching barbs.
It's a great technique and with EveryDay's assistance I think I've got it fine-tuned.
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I will only fish spoons using this method now. I have yet to lose a hooked fish.
Fly tech, what is the brand of the spoon you are using in your pic?
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Does this method work when bites are very light or just small taps?
Sometimes when I retrieve spoons I notice taps or bumps on the lure Perhaps the salmon are just chasing the lure and swiping at it?
What do you do when you encounter a situation when you notice frequent taps on the line with no hard strikes?
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What do you do when you encounter a situation when you notice frequent taps on the line with no hard strikes?
If the taps are light, I might give it a slight pull to see if anything is connected and increase pressure if it does.
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Does this method work when bites are very light or just small taps?
Sometimes when I retrieve spoons I notice taps or bumps on the lure Perhaps the salmon are just chasing the lure and swiping at it?
What do you do when you encounter a situation when you notice frequent taps on the line with no hard strikes?
Depends on where you are fishing, ocean or river? River it can be the water current, the unseen turbulance under the water and bottom like rocks and such that makes those taps and bumps sometimes. Ocean it could be waves or even debris in the water.
Frequent taps I would either slow down or speed up my presentation depending on what I am targetting. If it's pink I sometimes slow it down or just keep the same pace, speeding up the retrieve in a short burst can sometimes produce a hard strike as a fish will basically charge the lure.
As for frequent taps, I mostly get that while river fishing with spoons and just wait for the grab as most of the time salmon will hit hard enough to hook themselves but that isn't always the case.
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Hey guys! It's been a long time since this thread has been bumped. This is the best time of year for chucking metal, and it's really been heating up lately! I figured now would be the perfect time to release the new Trailing Hook article.
Today I finished writing/inserting pictures for "The Trailing Hook Method - FAQ." In that article, you'll most likely see pictures and descriptions that will answer any questions or concerns people have had with the method.
I want to keep it as an open discussion. I'm still learning too! If any of you have been using it regularly, and have something to add that isn't on the new article, please feel free to message me!
(https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28958677_10155017643526612_6920655978580934656_n.jpg?oh=36cf4b9549510bc3da30b65a5054c093&oe=5B3FE3C2)
https://outdooraddictions.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/the-trailing-hook-method-faq/
Cheers,
Dan
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I was fishing Chinook with a guide on the ocean. We kept on getting very light taps on the spoon, You could see teeth marks on the back end of the spoon,
The guide added a hook 2 inches back off the spoons split rings and the hookups went to 100%. Not sure if it applies in this case but it seemed to be the ticket in capturing the light bites.
Ill experiment this year freshwater coho fishing.
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I have tried the trailing hook method for approximately 6 months now. Originally I used to replace my hooks with three split rings in descending sizes (6, 5, 4) to space out a smaller hook the same distance as the larger hook that was being replaced and to keep the hook in the same orientation as the original.
The primary reason for me replacing the hooks, was the large size of the standard hooks on my favorite spoons. This is not an issue limited to one supplier, most suppliers of salmon spoons seam to use size 3/0 hooks on their spoons and I have witnessed first hand the damage they can cause to small and medium sized fish. I guess if you are always using the spoons for retention of large species of salmon this size of hook is OK, but I also like to fish big rivers for bulls (C&R) and steelhead and you need a decent sized and weight of spoon to fish bigger water, but the hooks were just too big for the intended target or potential caused bleeding.
I have now given up sacrificing my fingernails to the gods and have converted to the method Dan has developed. It my earlier trials I use 20 lbs Dacron and had a few breakages and I also struggled with the knot. Now I use 30 lbs and a triple surgeon for the knot and have not had a failure in 4 months.
I use Owner barbless No Escape Hooks in a No. 2 or 4, depending on my target and retention has been very good. In the past 2 outings I am over 90% of hooked fish. A month ago I was down to approximately 60% and could not figure out why, until I checked the point on my hook. Replacing the hooks with fresh, which is a piece of cake to do even on the river bank, solved all my problems immediately.
I have also noticed that more than 50% of my hook-sets are in the corner of the mouth, either inside to out or outside to in. I can't recall when I last hooked a fish in the tongue or upper mouth or had a bleeder, which has been very reassuring.
Some examples:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd9B0pGBC8W/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgK6PsMnA7B/
In summary:
PRO's
Less harm to fish
Improved numbers of fish to hand
Easy to replace hooks at any time
I seem to lose less spoons (could be me, but just seems that way)
You can customize your spoons with funky colours...
CON's
Occasional hook wrap around the line if loop too long
Extra cost of hooks, Dacron and time to replace
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People invent all kinds of stuff to catch more fish. Dan invented the Trailing Hook method for the benefit of the fish first, and not to loose them second.
Hats off and great to see you back.
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hook is large enough to harm the fish.
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hook is large enough to harm the fish.
? Which and what hook?
Dan, please update us on the circle hook, I'm very interested in hearing more. What is the main advantage of this type of hook? Obviously swinging through thick numbers of salmon like chum (if that's what you wanted to do) they would reduce the number of foul hooks. Do you feel that once the fish is on, it is difficult to lose?
Regarding hook size, did you give No. 2 hooks as much of a try as No. 1? Do you feel the smaller hook is not as good as the larger hook for fish like steelhead, even though many big steelhead are caught on intruders with size 4 trailing hooks?
Regarding spinners and like your Colorado blades have you thought to replace the steel wire in the spinner with Dacron, so the Dacron passes through the body of the spinner to a split ring? I guess the spinning blade may wear the Dacron, just curious.
Lastly have you tried the Owner, Barbless, No escape Hooks, which incorporate a slight v bend. The v is not as pronounced as the Matzou, but it is there in a slightly different position and I have recently experience hook up and retention levels in the 90%+ region with the owners but in a size 2 (generally for smaller fish admittedly).
Lastly and completely off-topic, do you submerge your reel often? I have a Battle II, which looks like what you have. If I submerge it, a few minutes later it can (not always) become quite stiff and almost feels like it is vapour locking. After a couple of days it's ok. I have stripped it a couple of times and replaced the grease with a good quality replacement, which has had no affect.
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Dan, please update us on the circle hook, I'm very interested in hearing more. What is the main advantage of this type of hook? Obviously swinging through thick numbers of salmon like chum (if that's what you wanted to do) they would reduce the number of foul hooks. Do you feel that once the fish is on, it is difficult to lose?
The circle hooks are still an ongoing "study." At first, I had some great retention on steelhead with them, like lost one fish out of 12 hooked. Then I had one day where I went 2/7. Kitty went 0/1 the other day as well. So it started out great, but may have been a fluke. I love how the hook points never get dull or damaged though (common problem with spoons), and I snag way less (they don't hit sticks or wood as much).
The one thing I will say about circles is they are UNREAL at keeping brown trout on. Browns have always been my kryptonite, I lose almost every single one I hook on metal. Since going to circles, I've only lose 1 or 2 out of a good 20 or more hooked. Always hooked extremely well. Not sure the reason, but they'll always be on now when targeting browns.
Regarding hook size, did you give No. 2 hooks as much of a try as No. 1? Do you feel the smaller hook is not as good as the larger hook for fish like steelhead, even though many big steelhead are caught on intruders with size 4 trailing hooks?
I tried all sorts of sizes of hooks. Number 1's seemed to hold well. For bait and beads I use 4's all the time - pretty much all I use. I have a lot of faith in small hooks getting good purchase and never coming out. That being said, they didn't seem to work as well for the spoons. They just don't seem to connect the same way in my experience. I think anything in the size range of #2 up to 1/0 will work just fine to get a good connection.
Regarding spinners and like your Colorado blades have you thought to replace the steel wire in the spinner with Dacron, so the Dacron passes through the body of the spinner to a split ring? I guess the spinning blade may wear the Dacron, just curious.
Not sure what you mean? Do you mean have the blade running right on the Dacron, as in get rid of the middle wire, and have all of the components on the dacron chunk?
In all honesty, I've never really had much of a problem getting good hook-ups or landing rates on spinners. Fish rarely fall off of them. They are a totally different animal than spoons. As said above by bigsnag, I did this whole method to primarily reduce spoon mortality. I literally have never deep hooked a fish on a spinner (I believe it's due to the spinning blade being too big of a radius to take it "deep"). Spinner hooks are typically a pretty appropriate size for the fishing I do. I just leave them as is. More of a hassle to change them than a help.
Lastly have you tried the Owner, Barbless, No escape Hooks, which incorporate a slight v bend. The v is not as pronounced as the Matzou, but it is there in a slightly different position and I have recently experience hook up and retention levels in the 90%+ region with the owners but in a size 2 (generally for smaller fish admittedly).
I just started using no escape hooks. They seem to work fairly well gear fishing worms/beads/bait. I haven't yet tried them on spoons, but will give them a go for sure after reading your IG post and this one. I'll let ya know how I do with them too!
Lastly and completely off-topic, do you submerge your reel often? I have a Battle II, which looks like what you have. If I submerge it, a few minutes later it can (not always) become quite stiff and almost feels like it is vapour locking. After a couple of days it's ok. I have stripped it a couple of times and replaced the grease with a good quality replacement, which has had no affect.
Penns are actually pretty bad for that. I'm not sure what it is. They say they are sealed bearings, but it is almost like water gets in the bearings and wrecks them a bit. I've had them seize right up before on me to the point where you couldn't do anything with them. After you dry them out though, you're right, they are fine. I just try to never get it wet anymore. They seem to have corrected the issue with the Penn Fierce II (used it for 8 months without any issues). Currently I'm using a Cabela's Verano reel and absolutely love it so far!
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People invent all kinds of stuff to catch more fish. Dan invented the Trailing Hook method for the benefit of the fish first, and not to loose them second.
Hats off and great to see you back.
I'm not quite sure I "invented" it. Just an idea I had never seen someone use, and tried it out. It worked, so I wrote something that people could try out. I'm sure others have used it before me! That being said though, yes, I did try and get people on board with it from a fish-first perspective. The landing rates were just a positive side effect.
Glad to see people realising that point.
Thanks, and hopefully I'll be back with a bit more soon!
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I'm not quite sure I "invented" it. Just an idea I had never seen someone use, and tried it out. It worked, so I wrote something that people could try out. I'm sure others have used it before me! That being said though, yes, I did try and get people on board with it from a fish-first perspective. The landing rates were just a positive side effect.
Glad to see people realising that point.
Thanks, and hopefully I'll be back with a bit more soon!
--you have definitely fine-tuned the method and demonstrated the benefits. I recall using this in the 60's with cuttyhunk line...the reason was not necessarily for better hook up or release but because we couldn't afford swivels or split rings.The same line we used for making nets and on our reels was plentiful and cheap. Washington state has some local common name, slang for this method but can't remember it. Was common onircle hooks even those not used with bait. Also popularized for use with a fly.. Moffatt method. fly tied muchlike a tube fly with trailing circle hook...intended to catch on the outside of the mouth for ease of release...some states even adjusted their regulations to specifically allow this...without allowing longer trail hook which could be used for flossing.
--great job
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Seen old timers at the mouth of the Capilano using the trailing hook method years ago.
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Seen old timers at the mouth of the Capilano using the trailing hook method years ago.
Okay.
People invent all kinds of stuff to catch more fish. Dan popularized the Trailing Hook method for the benefit of the fish first, and not to loose them second.
Hats off to Dan.
Is that better?
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Regarding spinners and like your Colorado blades have you thought to replace the steel wire in the spinner with Dacron, so the Dacron passes through the body of the spinner to a split ring? I guess the spinning blade may wear the Dacron, just curious.
I don't think it will work. Personally, I like the shaft on my spinner nice and stiff. I don't think the blade will spin properly on something soft as a Darcon. Also what happens when you have a weighted body put on? It'd tangle with the blade before it starts revolving. My 2 cents.