Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: clarki on September 15, 2014, 08:16:29 PM
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For beach fishing normally I use my little Shimano Sedona 1500 spinning reel. However this year I wanted to amp up my casting distance so I spooled up my 4000 with 10 lb Sufix 832.
However, every beach outing since I have had nothing but problems. When I cast tangles form. The tangles form just as the line is leaving the spool, about 2 rod lengths of line in, and you can hear the tangle leaving the guides. Sometimes I undo 3 or 4 tangles a night..and braid is tough to untangle! Or sometimes I just cut it off.
What gives? I'm just using 3/8 oz spoons, not spinners, and line twist should be minimal. Besides I though I read somewhere that braid didn't twist. I never had this problem with mono.
And it seems the tangles form on those casts when you give the rod some extra oomph for distance.
Do I need to replace the spoon's factory barrell swivels with ball bearing swivels?
Anybody else had a similar problem with braid line on a spinning reel?
Braid is expensive and untangling is cutting into my fishing time on the water!
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
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I've never had a problem with 20lb braid on my 4000.
maybe it's too thin for a reel that size.
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hey clarki. i understand your pain. sometimes the braided line needs some moisture. when it happens to me i usually fix it by sprinkling some water from my water bottle....just enough to wet the top layer. other then that make sure your first few casts are less length and increase from there.
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I have definitely had it happen.
I've noticed it happens most right after spooling the reel with new braid. Two things that have made it better is making sure you keep a lot of weight on the line when spooling (keep it super tight), and to NOT over spool the reel. I've noticed after cutting a few tangles off and losing some line, the tangles totally go away.
Good luck, it's annoying as heck.
Dan
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i had that happen when i used to use fireline crystal but only with the smaller diameters 10 lbs and under since then ive only used sufix 832 and powerpro and havent had any issues
side note the rods i used to use had much less backbone as the ones im using now
as others said this only seemed to occur just after respooling and a long walk with the bail open is usually a quck remedy to take some of the memory out of the line and get it spooled tighter
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I've not noticed thus much with braid yet.. but have with mono. Could be a lot of factors but i believe it's primarily too much line trying to leave the spool at once. I think casting too hard and too much weight for the line causing a lot of torque/tension or whatever the physics term is for that which unloads the cast andwith it, the line from your spool .. I noticed it with thinner diameter line and newly spooled lines that need to get worked in too..
Edit - when did you spool line ? Maybe spool it a week or two ahead and let it sit if you can hold off from fishing that long or just use one of your other rods ;)
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My apologies for skimming over the posts, I hope no ones already said this but could it be drag issues, I know when I changed lines on my bait rods, to lighter, I had the same issue with mono, it would just rats nest horribly, too much line at once, so I had to fiddle with the drag.
I use an Abu Garcia 6500 c3 Ambassador.
On my reel there are 2 (3 - but the 3rd only changes it from silent to that annoying click when reeling or when somethings pulling hard enough to drag line out) things that affect the drag; the 5 point star (god I love my technical terminology) and beside it there is a small dial, the small dial affects the drag out when the lines unlocked, ie a cast, and the 5 pt star ... thing. sigh, hah! affects the locked drag ie, fish on.
BOTH have to be adjusted properly, they'll completely change how you cast, in fact you'll actually gain more distance with less effort. When its configured correctly. I noticed it, when I went from fishing small rivers like coq & vedder to bigger ones like stave and fraser.
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I use fireline crystal (think 10 lb) on my 2500 and haven't had any issues. Knock on wood.
As someone else suggested, maybe you're overspooling the line. Whether mono, or braid whenever I've had problems with a spinning reel it's always because of too much line on the spool. I purposely have my reel underspooled, I figure whatever minor distance lost is more than compensated by not having tangled line.
I usually use 1/4 oz spoons.
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This could be one of two things:
The way you spool a spinning reel and bait caster is different so I think your reel may have been spooled incorrectly. bait casters, pins, etc you can put the spool on an spindle and allow the line to be pulled off as the spool turns. Spinning reels lay line diferently and for spinning reels, its best to put the spool on a flat surface and allow the line to come off the spool the same way it comes and goes onto the spinning reel's spool.
Dont know if that makes sense, I saw a diagram online once and it made perfect sense but i cant find it now.
Also, the bail assembly includes a bearing in the line guide. I have noticed that if that bearing isnt working well, these twists become a proplem more frequently so I would try cleaning that bearing....
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Overfilled spool?
Most common problem with spinning reels is that multiple loops come off creating a tangle when the spool is too full.
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Some good advice here. I gave up using braid on spinning reels for just that reason... too many tangles.
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I use 8lb Nanofil on my spinning rod for Coho and have never had a tangle.
Great strength and capacity. It does float though, which puts a little different angle on the spoon.
It's not exactly a braid since it's uni-filament.
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Sounds like too much line on the spool.
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I think either too much line is on it or it is spooled incorrectly. When spooling a spinning real there is an incorrect way to do it and below is the correct way. There are several Youtube videos explaining the difference. Basically, when the line comes out of the box from the store, it has a memory of either clockwise or counterclockwise. When putting it on your spool, you want to maintain that and not fight it by turning it around. Good luck.
This could be one of two things:
The way you spool a spinning reel and bait caster is different so I think your reel may have been spooled incorrectly. bait casters, pins, etc you can put the spool on an spindle and allow the line to be pulled off as the spool turns. Spinning reels lay line diferently and for spinning reels, its best to put the spool on a flat surface and allow the line to come off the spool the same way it comes and goes onto the spinning reel's spool.
Dont know if that makes sense, I saw a diagram online once and it made perfect sense but i cant find it now.
Also, the bail assembly includes a bearing in the line guide. I have noticed that if that bearing isnt working well, these twists become a proplem more frequently so I would try cleaning that bearing....
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Excellent suggestions everyone. Last night I went to park, tied one end to a bleacher, cranked down the drag and wound it up tight. And, it certainly was not full due to the large amounts of cut braid ion the front pocket of my waders :). Then went from the park to the beach. It cast smooth for a bit, but then tangles...
My assessment is that, at the start of the cast, there is a large amount of line accelerating quickly off the largish spool of my 4000. All that line is trying to get through the first guide and it tangles in the process. My new, high end, spinning rod has a small'ish first guide and taht may be contributing to a line jam. I wonder if braid on my 1500 Sedona might be a different experience.
At any rate, thanks for the replies everyone. That's why I appreciate this forum.
Cheers.
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weird never had repeat birdnests on my spinning rod sounds like your rod is releasing its load and the lure isnt pulling the line out fast enough
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try put your reel on a bait casting rod and try a few casts to see if it tangles. The smaller diameter guides might keep the line from flying around so much and perhaps this stops the tangles. At least that will tall you if its a rod or a reel related issue and you can fine tune the trouble shooting from there.
Personally I think you have line twist. I would go down to the river and let out a good length of line downstream with nothing on the end. Let it unwind in the stream for a few minutes.
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try put your reel on a bait casting rod and try a few casts to see if it tangles. The smaller diameter guides might keep the line from flying around so much and perhaps this stops the tangles. At least that will tall you if its a rod or a reel related issue and you can fine tune the trouble shooting from there.
Personally I think you have line twist. I would go down to the river and let out a good length of line downstream with nothing on the end. Let it unwind in the stream for a few minutes.
^^you could probably put a small swivel on the end to help the current take it and it'll still unravel
Sounds like you loaded the reel wrong which means the twist will be all the way through. Your going to want to empty it before reeling it all back in, pulling it tight will not eliminate the twist.
Try googling how to load a spinning reel with braid.
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My new, high end, spinning rod has a small'ish first guide and taht may be contributing to a line jam. I wonder if braid on my 1500 Sedona might be a different experience.
Are you sure that's a spinning rod? The first guide on a spinning rod is usually quite large.
Could also be wind knots. Youtube "wind knots" there are some common errors/tips.
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Are you sure that's a spinning rod? The first guide on a spinning rod is usually quite large.
Could also be wind knots. Youtube "wind knots" there are some common errors/tips.
I was just looking at many spinning rods in the last month before I decided on the one I bought and yes there are a few models where ALL the eyes are quite small. These ones fell off my list very quickly
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How small?
First guide OD should be 1/2 the diameter of your spool lip for optimal performance.
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--haven't tried it myself but the Microwave system is supposed to help combat that problem with the two eyes on first guide.
--might want to try a different sized/shaped spool if the reel has that option.
--borrow a friends reel that works on their rod and try it on yours.
--have someone else give it a try and observe what they do...slow mow camera setting might actually show what is happening and help you adjust.
--sometimes the reel foot doesn't fit the reel seat or there might be a slight bend int he foot or the reel seat any of these or a combo of these may cause the line to not enter the guide at the desired angle.
--what is make and model of the rod? maybe others have had similar problem with the gear you are using.
--you may just have to go with a bit larger diameter or stiffer line to reduce the slap
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I was just looking at many spinning rods in the last month before I decided on the one I bought and yes there are a few models where ALL the eyes are quite small. These ones fell off my list very quickly
Any chance you can post the make and model, or post a pic of the rod itself showing the specs?
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I get the same problem with mitchell avocet reel with bottom drag, pwr pro yellow 15lbs braided and HMX 9foot6 4-10lbs. I feel that I get the tangle when I cast it hard perpendicular to water rather than at an angle. Try that. I think also the way you cast effects the way the line touches the guides causing a tangle.
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The rod doesn't know what angle you cast. It shouldn't make any difference.
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maybe not the angle but for sure whipping it can cause a tangle
how do you post video?
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i have 7'6 carrot stik micro guide series rod paired with c14 3000 reel 8lb test and ive never had this issue while using it and the first guide is only about 3/4"
only while using slower action rods have i had this happen and always when trying to hero cast a mile