Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: speycaster on August 21, 2014, 02:11:25 PM
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If you are not prepared to do a self rescue, stay out of the bush or off the lake . If you are caught without the ability to save yourself then die, there are lots of replacement people, the species are not in danger of extinction. I did all sorts of things that would kill the average person now, never needed to be rescued. Take the odds into consideration and decide what you will do, if you do something that could kill you and hope for someone else to save your butt you are an idiot and the world is better off with your carcass returning nutrients to the soil. ;D
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thats harsh dude. i am all for being prepared but cupcakes happens that is sometimes out of your control.
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thats harsh dude. i am all for being prepared but cupcakes happens that is sometimes out of your control.
Agreed. You cant really predict if someone is going to burn down the bridge behind you.
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If people want the services of S&R then pay for the cost of your rescue. Take out an insurance policy that covers your butt, don't expect others to play mommy for you and pick up the cost of getting you out of a predicament that they did not cause. I will give odds that non of those A-holes on that bar gave anything to Chilliwack S&R for the help. If they put a surcharge on my fishing licensr to pay for S&R I will just do a lot more fishing in the States as I am only 20 kilometres from the border and then It is Montana , Wyoming, Idaho. Make hikers pay for their rescue as most of the S&R events on the lower mainland is getting idiots out from behind Mt.Seymour from out of bounds area at Hollybourn. I back country skied there all through the sixties and seventies and never needed help. Spent 4 days on the top of Garibaldi in a white out and didn;t need anyone to hold my hand. Snow caves are fun,
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making them pay is far better than saying just die. unexpected stuff happens.
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Unexpected stuff is what you prepare for. Last year an idiot got stuck up on a gravel road with about 4 inches of snow on it, summer tires, no winter survival stuff in the car, basically summer clothes, running shoes. Now tell me why the world would not be better off with him gone? To top it off he wanted a free tow out about 20 kilometres. Got real snotty when I told him I would give him a ride out and he could pay for his own rescue. My buddy has tow business in town , why should I break his rice bowl. He smartened up when I told him he could wait for the next vehicle to come along which might be a week. ;D If he had even gave me a dirty glance he would have learned how to rub two sticks together to start a fire and looked for some leaves to eat. ;D
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SAR guys are against having them pay.
The reason is that people will call for a rescue, hide while the searchers are looking for them, then follow them out when they leave.
This puts the volunteer SAR rescuers in danger.
People are cheap.
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Then then SARs guys should refuse any money offered them that comes from license surcharges of any type. Insurance should be the same as for a car, no insurance then it is added to your car insurance for the next year plus the same interest that the payday loans people charge.
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While I agree with speycaster in almost everything he says, especially after 2 weeks of sockeye madness taking its toll on me. I think there has to be some kind of change in the regulations regarding the ease of acquiring a fishing license and the individual quota that resident kids get in this province.
What I think we're seeing right now is far too many people on the riverbank fishing who have no business being on the riverbank fishing. We need to grow the sport for the next generation, it's good to get outside in the summer and be one with nature..... sure I agree with you. Go into your local tackle store and take a general knowledge test that shows you know THE VERY BASICS of fish identification, general angling rules and maybe even a question or two on basic human survival in the woods. Next major thing is where you do go out, EVERYONE has to have a fishing license. Wow hmmm.... getting expensive...... guess we can't take Timmy, Suzy and Alex and walk away with 8 fish that Dad caught.
As for the SAR and who foots the bill, should be on the rescued 100% If it were me and I broke an ankle on a trail into the river and couldn't get out, or if my boat broke down on the lake and I was blown off into the distance, I would be prepared to fork up the dough for those who worked so hard to find me and get me out if I absolutely couldn't get myself out.
The problem I have with this whole Pegleg SAR operation, how is it that not one of those people on the stranded riverbank didn't notice what was going on and ask buddy with the shovel what the fack he was trying to accomplish? Perhaps trying to create a new channel for the sockeye to swim up?
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What I think we're seeing right now is far too many people on the riverbank fishing who have no business being on the riverbank fishing. We need to grow the sport for the next generation, it's good to get outside in the summer and be one with nature..... sure I agree with you. Go into your local tackle store and take a general knowledge test that shows you know THE VERY BASICS of fish identification, general angling rules and maybe even a question or two on basic human survival in the woods. Next major thing is where you do go out, EVERYONE has to have a fishing license. Wow hmmm.... getting expensive...... guess we can't take Timmy, Suzy and Alex and walk away with 8 fish that Dad caught.
As for the SAR and who foots the bill, should be on the rescued 100% If it were me and I broke an ankle on a trail into the river and couldn't get out, or if my boat broke down on the lake and I was blown off into the distance, I would be prepared to fork up the dough for those who worked so hard to find me and get me out if I absolutely couldn't get myself out.
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The fishing license test is an interesting point, Im down for it as i mainly fish smaller rivers and do a lot of exploriing, im sure many would argue that they only fish stocked lakes from docks, etc.
Definitely agree, that if you are stuck out at the mercy of the elements, potentially putting your rescuers in danger you should pay your bill. Accident or because you were doing something stupid. Never been bar-fishing on the fraser but it sounds like aside from the high amounts of flying lead it should be pretty safe.
Maybe it was all an anti-bar fishing/anti-flossfest movement that dug the channel in an attempt to get people off peg-leg as you guys keep describing it as a gongshow
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Barfing (bar fishing) typically is pretty safe and is a great way to fish, it's how I learned how to fish on the lower Skeena..... Nothing like tossing your drink and sandwich for the birds when the bell starts chiming at the most inopportune time.
Someone trying to make a statement against BB'ing the Fraser in the middle of the sockeye opening is wasting their time for all intents and purposes. DFO knows exactly what goes on when they decide to open up the non tidal fishery.
speycaster, not sure if you've heard about this one when it happened but this is sure to get your blood boiling again.....
http://globalnews.ca/news/1483958/expensive-rescue-of-drunk-man-from-wreck-beach-raises-questions/ (http://globalnews.ca/news/1483958/expensive-rescue-of-drunk-man-from-wreck-beach-raises-questions/)
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From what I understand, the guys on the bar had no choice in the matter...
But I do not feel like adding a surcharge to fishing and hunting licenses is a good idea. That money could go directly back into the resource, and support more Fisheries Officers etc...
For the most part, I believe hikers, climbers, skiiers, and snowboarders should have to pay a small tax on their gear, or companies that sell equipment and ski resorts should send money to sar off the purchases. After all, this is the first time I have heard of fishermen being rescued by sar.
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You are right BBarley , I agree with the lady in the video. So he is in heat distress, shovel some sand over him, put up three pieces of driftwood to cover his face. If he dies he has a ready made grave, just needs some one to carve the cause of death on the driftwood. ;D Just another thing, what is it with the blob over his face? That is a public beach and no one has a right to privacy there. Show his face so everyone knows who the guy with all the alcohol killed brain cells is. If he can still walk with a little help he is not in that great a distress, just take him to the cells. ;D I suppose it was easier for the Vancouver police to have him transported by SAR Coastguard than run the police boat out to Wreck beach. >:( Just another waste of taxpayers money, I would not have called anyone if I had found that guy anywhere, Get drunk and you cause yourself a problem get out of it the same way you got into it, take another swig out of the bottle. I am not my fellow humans keeper unless I decide to be. That means I decide what caused the situation and if it was caused by stupidity or not being prepared for the circumstances that you are in then you better have some cash or other means of paying me for my troubles. Otherwise get yourself out of your predicament. Some people just need to be left to help the over population problem. ;D
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Speycaster: I hope with all your smiley faces you are being sarcastic about leaving people behind while needing help.
I suggest you read this page although it seems your opinion is already formed.
http://www.northshorerescue.com/services/charging-for-rescues/
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Can't plan for sudden avalanches, land slides, flash floods, etc. So we can't really make a blanket statement that everyone should have to pay for their own rescues.
I'm of the opinion that if you are breaking laws or regulations, then you should be responsible for the cost of your rescue. Skiers and hikers that go out of bounds, publicly intoxicated people and such. These are the preventable rescues that cost S&R organizations money that could be better spent elsewhere.
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I was not being sarcastic at all. I think that I stated it quite well when I said "I am not my fellow mans Keeper". I do not think that I can be any more honest that that. If you are going to be stupid and put your life at risk without considering the consequences , then I consider that you are trying to commit suicide and I am a firm believer in every persons right to decide how they die. If you are going to get drunk and die on a beach from alcohol poisoning or from heat then get out of your predicament the same way you got into. You will not get any help from me. There are lots of replacement people around, probably some who are more benefit to society that the drunk on Wreck Beach. I know that I would not be affected by his dying. People going into the area behind Mt. Seymour in November dressed in shorts, running shoes and nothing else should not be rescued with taxpayers dollars. To me they are trying to commit suicide and they should not be deterred in their effort.
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Well I'm glad there are folks like Bent Rods and S&R who feel life is a priority.
I'll fully admit people do dumb things, myself included. I do find wishing death or suffering to those that are ignorant or make mistakes very, very creepy.
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Kudos to Bent Rods - you'll be my first recommendation for a guide service.
SAR did another fabulous job - and even though I don't take part in this fishery - hats off to them!
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Cuttthroat22, I am not wishing death on anyone. I am just saying that everyone is responsible for their own life. If they wish to shorten it by bad judgement or stupidity, that is their choice and I would not want to dispute it. I am an old guy ( 74 years of age ) , I did lots of things that could have killed me. I went into the Algonquin Park in the summer of 1949,I was 9 years old, I was gone for three weeks with a 12 year old cousin. We both survived. Why? Because we were knowledgeable about living in the bush at that age. No mommy to drive us to school, no SAR looking for us after 3 days. I come from a background of looking after yourself and not counting on someone else to hold your hand. Take care of yourself or die has been my motto for all these years and I do not see any reason to hold someone else's hand if they cannot take care of themselves. If they have an accident that is a different thing but if they go some where not prepared for the weather or decide to get drunk and lay on a beach and die of heatstroke then they had better be prepared to take care of their own predicament because they WILL not get any help from me , not even a 911 call.
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they guy who floated over to the bar thursday with his belly boat dug the channel
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One of the issues is that people will be hesitant too call sar's due to the price, and may risk their life's and others by not wanting to make the call due to having to pay.
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If they only value their lives at the rescue rate then maybe it is best if they are left to their own ability to save themselves. ;D
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I am of the opinion that people that need SAR rescue are not only endangering their own lives, but also those of the rescuers. As such, they need to either be fined or volunteering their time doing community work in the event that they have zero ability to pay.
If they only value their lives at the rescue rate then maybe it is best if they are left to their own ability to save themselves. ;D
Haha. So true.
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a lot of SAR is volunteer based, people who are willing to go out 24-7 to help people out of their own pockets a lot of the time, I've done some SAR training (a lot of family are former SAR) and trust me, they do it to help others, knowing mistakes happen, accidents happen, and the sheer fact you cant predict the future of an excursion. that and what ever portion of SAR isnt volunteer driven, its military based.
SAR works off donations to keep vehicles and safety equipment running and up to date, pay for necessary training etc. and a lot of people who have been helped by SAR do wind up donating.
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I think that you should check your facts correct before making a statement like that Ezio, here in the boundary the vast majority do not. Drunks that wander off into the bush from campsites should be left to their own resources. There is nothing that will curb a person's excess drinking like a Grizzly french kissing them. ;D
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Even the most experience and prepared people can be caught in a total @#$! storm, everything that can go wrong will go wrong or has gone wrong. So no I don't believe they should. Most Search and Rescue is volunteer isn't it?
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I think that if an area is clearly marked as "Caution Do Not Enter", "Danger Enter At Own Risk", "Water Levels May Rise Rapidly Without Warning" or something along those lines the people disobeying those signs should be fined for. Especially when they are putting volunteers at risk to come and save their asses >:( I believe it's different if you're hiking and lose your way, but people who clearly ignore signs put out for their own protection are just asking for it.
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What about the person lacking in intelligence that thinks it is a good idea to leave for a hike on the backside of Seymour at 11.00 HRs dressed in running shoes, shorts and a T-shirt in the middle of November? ;D
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What about the person lacking in intelligence that thinks it is a good idea to leave for a hike on the backside of Seymour at 11.00 HRs dressed in running shoes, shorts and a T-shirt in the middle of November? ;D
LOL that fine individual is in the "special" pile haha