Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: Trout Slayer on June 24, 2004, 01:27:20 PM
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Been working on this one for a while and hope a few of you will learn a couple things. I have studied Chironomids for a couple years now and have learned how to fish them almost everytime with success. Throughout the year Chironomids are 40% of the trouts diet intake. Best way to cast out the fly and have a good presentation is in a single anchored Pontoon, holding in a belly boat or double anchored in a car topper. Remember, fisherman always think the farther out the line the more fish you will get. False, fish are sometimes hitting the indicator 5 feet from the boat.
Temperatures
One of the most important things while Chironomiding is the temperature of the water and how the hatches will react to it. Generally between 40-50 degrees fahrenheit is the magic number and lot's of hatches will occur give or take. Getting into 65/68 area it is a bit to hot and fisherman should start to consider switching over to different patterns of flies.
Location In Lakes To Fish
Ideally when fishing Chironomids the fisherman will want to fish 25 feet and shallower in depth from drop off's up to shoals on a muddy bottom. This is not always the case as people have got them in 40/50/60 feet of water. Chironomids commonly hatch in the muddy bottoms and as they hatch they raise to the surface of the water. As they do so the trout will slurp them out of the mud and on their journey up. Sunny days fishing deeper is good and on overcast anywhere in the water column can be deadly.
Emergence
This is the times that Chironomids will hatch during the fishing season:
April May June July August September October
End<--------------->Early End<-------->End
They are in 2 stages before hatching at the surface: larvae and pupa. Once at the surface they resemble their cousin the mosquito. As the Pupa venture through the water column it will trap air gases in it's underbody and fisherman will start using patterns called "Chromies" which resemble trapped gases and the shiny silver effect they give off. A square meter in the bottom of a lake can contain 20,000 Chironomids.
Colours of the Hatch
Colours commonly coming off lakes are Lime Green, Green (many shades)Brown, Black, Red, Maroon and the Chromie Silver. Also heard of Orange, Grey and Tan. They will be in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Size 10-22's are most common with 14 and 16's being most productive.
Ways To Fish
1. With an indicator: Chironomid fishing with an indicator is without a doubt the most successful way to present the fly. Fisherman will attach a small foam, corkie looking object in a bright colour to their leader at the desired distance between at which they will want their fly to be presented. This is done on a full floating fly line. Most common zone to have a pupa emering with an indicator is 1-2 feet off the bottom. When setting the indicator for the middle of the water zone, Chromies are often used as the Pupa will have gases trapped in itself as it nears the surface to hatch. Through out the time the fly has been casted out let it sink and every 15 seconds give the line a quick twitch to create the natural occuring action underwater. Line should also stay straight so it is easier for a hook set when it gets pulled under. Phil Rowley has come up with a strike indicator called the "Quick Release" kind of expensive that's why I have designed my own but it helps for when fishing deep depths and having to land the fish as it splits the indicator so the fisherman can bring the leader in more and have an easy landing.
Keeping The Line Straight:
(http://gallery.fishbc.com/albums/albun50/000_2265.sized.jpg)
2."Naked": Chironomid fishing without an indicator is referred to as fishing "naked" the fisherman will cast out his or her line to the lake and slowly retrieve the line in. When fishing a full sink line the fisherman should cast it out the depth of the lake; no more, no less and wait a minute till the line is completely parallel from the tip of the rod down to the bottom of the lake. Then they should do a slow hand twist retrieve to the surface as it is imitating the Chironomid as it makes it's way through the water column. Can be done with a sink tip fly line or full sink.
A Loop knot that connects the leader to the fly is good, with fishing on a day with the water active and movement it will imitate the movement the Chironomid will give as it naturally hatches.
Both of the noted methods are to have the rod tip always pointed towards the water or in the water so for a strike the fisherman can simply raise his or her rod and give a good hook set.
Fly-Lines
When Chironomid fishing a very good fly-line is needed. One that does not hold memory or curl when casted out.
1. Floating: Make sure get one in a colour that is visible in the water, casts long distances, doesnt bunch up or "curl" and will stay floating without dipping in the water. One recommendation is Scientific Anglers and their series called "Mastery" that have come up with a very good high quality of line called "Headstart" It is special for a shortened head and shorter front taper. Its a weight forward full floating and perfect for beginners and occasional anglers.
2. Sink Tip: Same goes for the floating line. Make sure that is doesnt bunch up or curl. Depending on what type of water being fished in a good recommendation is the Scientific Anglers Mastery Series "Wet Tip" Has a sink rate of 1.5-6.25 ips depending on which type purchased. Has a low stiffness and comes in two colours. Another is the Scientific Anglers Mastery Series "Stillwater" It's an invisible sub-surface slow sinking line. Good for shallower water and wary fish that may get spooked when they see it. Sink rate is 1.25-2.0 ips.
3. Full Sink: Same general characteristics as the other lines but will want a fast sinking line to get in the zone faster and to present the fly without waiting very long. A good recommendation is the Scientific Anglers Mastery Series Uniform Sink Plus. Has a sinking rate of 1.5-6 ips. Comes in the colour blue and casts rather nicely.
Leaders
Leaders should be 25-30% longer then the depth fishing in a lake. Lines and leaders should also not be mixed with brand names as often companies will use different coating in their lines and can weaken others. Mono tapered is great, but in more finicky lakes where the fish observe the flies more, fluorocarbon is a good choice.
How Do I Tell Which Colours Are Hatching?
This is a frequently asked question and a good way of finding out is by cruising the surface and shallows of a lake with an aquarium net picking up the Pupas on the surface. Another great way to do so is by using a Throat Pump with a caught fish and seeing what it contains in it's stomach. Be very careful when using a throat pump though. No fish generally under 14 inches should be pumped and the fish is to be treated gentle while doing so. Commonly the insects in the stomach that get pumped would have been eaten within the last 5-10 minutes and are still alive.
Directions:
1. Gently place the bulb into the throat of the fish depressed.
2. Slowly withdrawl it and it will suction out the food contents.
3. The fish can then be released to fight another day.
Beads
Beads are used on Chironomids to add extra weight so the fly gets to the desired depth faster and also give a sense of a head. Colours are crucial with most common being gold, copper, bronze, nickle, clear(glass), black and white.
I will make up a few step by step tying instructions for people who want them.
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WOW!!!! Awesome read!!!
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excellent work! very impressive, what a wealth of knowledge. keep up the good work
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excellent tutorial Trout Slayer!!!! thank you 8)
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Glad you guys liked it. 8)
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after all that info, i'm heading out to buy some new flys.........Chironomids!!!! ;D 8)
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Great job, trout slayer (I hope you release some, too ;D).
I am a bit confused about long leaders and a strike indicator. How to I reel the line in if there is a strike indicator between the long leader and the rod. I think you have talked about it, but I did not quite get it.
Thanks.
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I am a bit confused about long leaders and a strike indicator. How to I reel the line in if there is a strike indicator between the long leader and the rod. I think you have talked about it, but I did not quite get it.
Goto your local shop and ask for or look for Strike Indicators called "Quick Release" by FlyAngler or Fly-Craft Angling ones developed by Phil Rowley.
They come in 2 colours (flourescent orange and yellow) and contain a small black peg to hold your line. Here is a great video showing how they work off of Phil Rowleys site:
http://www.flycraftangling.com (http://www.flycraftangling.com)
Sign up to his site and click on Quick Release Indicators, will show step by step.
The Advantages:
1. Strike indicator will split when a strike has happened.
2. Colours stand out nice in water.
3. Easy to adjust rather then the tooth-pick models.
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Trout slayer. Thanks for the link to the quick release indicator. The concept is so simple, once you see it on video 8)
The site itself has a lot of great articles. It is going to keep me busy.
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Good write up TS! Great stuff. As for the slip indicators I'll point out one thing that is a bit of a drawback. If the fish breaks you off you lose the indicator too. :(
One other thing I might add to this great wealth of info would be to fish with a partner and use different depths and patterns until the secret is unlocked. ;) Saves time if you have a strategy. Of course as soon as the secret reveals itself the fish will probably be onto another colour, depth, size....... :'(
Ah, but that's why we call it fishing and not catching, eh?? ;D
Thanks for the read Aaron! And good pics as well. :)
Flooney*
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floonster,
to prevent from loosing the indicator, tie on a very tiny swivel, size 14 i think they are about 3 feet from the hook just incase the fish does break off, you dont loose your indicator as well. just make sure that the swivel isnt too small or else the indicator will just go write through.
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Good idea but this would be considered "external weight" in fly fish only bodies of water. ;)
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Good idea but this would be considered "external weight" in fly fish only bodies of water. ;)
I haven't checked, but obviously the shiny peace floats. The question is if the black top peace also floats. If it does float, then one could put some shiny nail polish on it to show in the water, and then go retrieve it (can work at least a percentage of the time).
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Thank you for all the positive feedback.
Doc, it is really just a personal opinion for success with or without a bead on the fly. IMHO I believe fishing with the beads is 1:3 more fish for success. But this is just my opinion and I also fish Chironomids with beads most of the time but if it was 50/50 for fishing time of each type of fly it could be different.
P.S. Sorry about the late reply I was up in the Cariboo defining my name. ;D
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As a guy who spends almost 75% of my interior lake fishing time using chironomids, which includes glass worms and blooworms, this is an excellent article of the basics of modern chironomid fishing :). I fish almost exclusively with bead headed chironomids, because I want the fly to remain in the right depth. I even place split shot on my leader just above the tippet knot. I fish with an indicator almost 100% of the time when chironomid fishing, even in 30 feet of water. My leaders consist of the first 1/3 being monofilament, usually 6lb maxima ultragreen and the last 2/3 fluorocarbon. I particularily like the new Airflo Sight Free flurocarbon, only broke off 1 fish on the stuff this year, which only happened due to a fish running into the anchor line of another boat ;).
Floonster, in fly fishing only waters, not only is external weight illegal, but also external floating devices, such as strike indicators :P.
Carlo
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Nice read. I sometimes fish with an indicator but more often withought. My eyes get tired looking at the thing the whole time and it is a pain to cast with. I also only fish with bead head chronomids. Simple to tie and get the fly down.
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i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........
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i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........
Very interesting otto, never heard of it being done like that. How do you control the depth and have a natural occurance as if the Pupa is emerging? Rod holders?
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i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........
Very interesting otto, never heard of it being done like that. How do you control the depth and have a natural occurance as if the Pupa is emerging? Rod holders?
two ways to do it:
1. attach a 1/2 - 1 ounce weight on the very end of the line, and about 1 - 2 feet up tie on a bead head Chironomid . push out the pole so the weight sits on the bottom and the fly just up from the weeds. keep the line almost taut. it looks like a Chironomid climbing up a water weed tendril. jiggle the line every so often. very effective - similar to "dropshot" style of soft bait fishing
2. other method is to simply tie on the bead head chironomid to the end of the line (2 lb test) and cast out, letting sink to the bottom. simply lift up the pole tip slightly and move over a foot or so at a time.
8)
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Very interesting way of fishing a chironomid :)
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same method works well with any sinking type fly, i seem to consistently nail trout with a deer hair fly (bunch of strands of deer hair tied near the eye of the hook, drop of cement to seal it).
also use a 3" strand of scraggly wool (burnt orange or red) tied to a hook to imitate a red worm or blood worm.
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Got a "dumb" question.
What's the point of using fancy fly equipment for Chironomids (is it just to say we are "fly fishing"). Seems to me a cheapie spinning set up would do a better job in this area.
Comments?
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Hi Normfish,
Was that you with your family out in that big blue-sided boat?
I was in my small 9 foot Habercraft Flyfisher, and most of our friends were also in that bay. We did good fishing 15-17 feet of water with big bombers right off the bottom of that big mud flat. Brown seemed to be the colour of the week (rootbeer and bronze), and we all had so many double headers it was getting out of hand! The bite seemed to die off around 8 o' clock, for us.
We came home just last Friday, so I would have seen you Thursday...?
Great read, Aaron!
Good Luck!
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Hi Norm,
No we didn't get any fish pictures from Tunkwa, but we did from the lakes we fished before it.
My biggest fish at Tunkwa was just over 20 inches. How about you?
The weather was good too, and it's great because the heat doesn't seem to effect Tunkwa or Leighton through all the years we've fished it!
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A quick question on retrieves:
When doing the pain stakingly slow hand twist retrieve while working a chironomid pattern on a floating line and long leader(indicator or not), are you:
a) imitating the slow accent of the pupa to the surface?
b) covering an area at the same depth but moving the chironomid slowly towards you so not to spook fish?
I can kinda see a non-weighted pattern SLOWLY sinking to the right depth then rising to the surface with the retrieve because the retrieve is faster than the sink rate(if this is the case). With a weighted pattern I don't see the pattern rising since the sink rate of a bead head would pretty much keep it at that depth, (unless you're working a full sink line vertically) thus keeping the fly at the same depth but just moving horizontally in the water column. I've also tried the retrieve then wait technique where you'd make the fly rise, or move horizontally/diagonally then wait for the fly to sink or stop moving sideways. I've never really questioned the various techniques available but was just curious as to what my fly was doing in the water.
Thanks in advance!
Tak
P.S. my favorite technique is w/o an indicator with a bead headed pattern as its so fun "feeling" the take!
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A quick question on retrieves:
When doing the pain stakingly slow hand twist retrieve while working a chironomid pattern on a floating line and long leader(indicator or not), are you:
a) imitating the slow accent of the pupa to the surface?
b) covering an area at the same depth but moving the chironomid slowly towards you so not to spook fish?
I can kinda see a non-weighted pattern SLOWLY sinking to the right depth then rising to the surface with the retrieve because the retrieve is faster than the sink rate(if this is the case). With a weighted pattern I don't see the pattern rising since the sink rate of a bead head would pretty much keep it at that depth, (unless you're working a full sink line vertically) thus keeping the fly at the same depth but just moving horizontally in the water column. I've also tried the retrieve then wait technique where you'd make the fly rise, or move horizontally/diagonally then wait for the fly to sink or stop moving sideways. I've never really questioned the various techniques available but was just curious as to what my fly was doing in the water.
Thanks in advance!
Tak
P.S. my favorite technique is w/o an indicator with a bead headed pattern as its so fun "feeling" the take!
While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator. It does both: Imitates the Chironomid Pupa emerging to the surface and is covering an area in the body of water at the same depth and with each slow hand twist it makes it rise gently and fall like the natural occurance. It also is very dependant on how the hand twist retrieve method is being done. (At which speed and movement)
While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and a strike indicator it generally only covers an area of water after being casted out because the main idea of adding a strike indicator is to control the depth at which the angler wants the fly to stay at and the movement from this is horizontal. A good way of setting the proper depth for the strike indicator is attaching a 1 or 2 ounce lead weight on the end of the fly and letting the fly sink to the bottom of the lake. While doing this make the strike indicator sit on the surface and once the weight touches bottom put one finger where the strike indicator was and then move it to the appropriate distance you want the fly to sit at and lock in place.
A non-weighted pattern will SLOWLY sink to the depth but it lessens the amount of time for the fly to be in the approximate wanted zone. With a weighted pattern the pattern will rise and fall like the natural occurance. This is only imitated without an indicator because as noted before the strike indicator is meant to keep the fly in a desired depth zone and slowly cruise closer to the angler with every gentle retrieve.
The main reason trout take a fly standing or slowly moving horizontal with the indicator is because it stands out from a natural Pupa's imitation of just rise straight to the top and slowly pausing at times vertically.
All in all to give the best presentation it is without the strike indicator as it gives the natural emergence.
-Trout Slayer
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While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator...
Question: Would you not dramatically reduce yoru "feel" for the strike having a floating line. It seems to me a straight path to the fly can be much easier achieved with a wet line.
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While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator...
Question: Would you not dramatically reduce yoru "feel" for the strike having a floating line. It seems to me a straight path to the fly can be much easier achieved with a wet line.
Must be a really good fisherman to notice the differences between with those 2 types of method. (Full Sink and Full Floating) Ideally No because the full sink ya of course, it would make you feel the strike right away, but the same goes for using a full floating. When the full floating is being retrieved the line is kept tight in a straight motion. So when there is a hit the line will lock up right away and the fisherman will feel it instantly. If the line were to be left sitting slack with no tension the fisherman would lose lot's of hits to the fly. When a trout takes the Chironomid it will mainly inhale it and with the feel the fisherman can set the hook. When recieving a hit with the strike indicator the fish will sometimes fool the fisherman by tapping at it ever so slightly/others will hit hard and fully submerge it.
The best way to learn all of this is experimenting with the different methods and chosing which is easiest to fish with. :)
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thanks Trout Slayer! certainly clarifies things.
I've had trout violently strike, gently sip, and simply inhale chironomids. With a hand twist retrieve you are pretty much constantly removing slack from the line and thus feel even the slightest of takes. And when it comes to presentation, after a long hard internal battle I have come to terms with the fact that slower IS better(retrieves). A hand twist retrieve can keep you busy and allow you to accurately change the speed at which your fly is travelling, but since most spinning reels have some very nice ratios to them, a slow retrieve can be quite difficult.
I tried a hand twist in a filled bathroom sink once with a nymph and watched in horror as I saw how FAST I was retrieving!! As I've seen naturals accend to the surface or swim towards shore before, I slowed my retrieve next outting and it changed things dramatically.
I also frequent a lake where entry into the lake is forbidden. Casting out with an indicator allows me to fish a certain depth but not be physically right on top of where my fly is.
But can it also be done with a spinning outfit? Certainly! You could work a vertical presentation from a float tube or boat but slllllllowly raising your rod tip out of the water and reeling in that raised line while lowering your tip again (kinda gives you a visual as to how fast you're retrieving). Or if you're super diligent, sllllllowly reel in the line at the speed of a natural. With a float/indicator presentation, you'd be limited as to how deep you could present your fly as casting will become quite difficult after the leader length from float exeeds rod tip to water clearance. But you could definitely toss it out there, and just reel in the slack line and wait for the float/bobber to dive. I dunno if that helps you at all FlyNut LOL
I've read before that you should set the hook with the fly line using the mending hand as opposed to striking with the rod. This allows you to keep the fly in generally the same location in the case that the fish is "slapping" your fly with say, its tail. I may be confused with dry fly fishing however, because I know fish at times with attempt to "drown" an insect before attacking a second time. ???
Anyways, to get kinda off-topic, I've had to cut off flies due to deep hooking using chironomids. I feel this may be when the fish are inhaling their food as opposed to sipping selectively. Or am I simply missing the lighter initial take and setting the hook too late? I've read that when releasing a fish that is deep hooked it will survive better if the hook is left and the line cut, so that the hook will either natually slip out or rust out, as opposed to goin in for open mouth surgery with forceps and forcefully removing the fly.
I leave the fly in the mouth and release the fish in hopes that the fish will grow to become much larger and wiser and more fun to catch another day. Comments?
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thanks Trout Slayer! certainly clarifies things.
I've had trout violently strike, gently sip, and simply inhale chironomids. With a hand twist retrieve you are pretty much constantly removing slack from the line and thus feel even the slightest of takes. And when it comes to presentation, after a long hard internal battle I have come to terms with the fact that slower IS better(retrieves). A hand twist retrieve can keep you busy and allow you to accurately change the speed at which your fly is travelling, but since most spinning reels have some very nice ratios to them, a slow retrieve can be quite difficult.
I tried a hand twist in a filled bathroom sink once with a nymph and watched in horror as I saw how FAST I was retrieving!! As I've seen naturals accend to the surface or swim towards shore before, I slowed my retrieve next outting and it changed things dramatically.
I also frequent a lake where entry into the lake is forbidden. Casting out with an indicator allows me to fish a certain depth but not be physically right on top of where my fly is.
But can it also be done with a spinning outfit? Certainly! You could work a vertical presentation from a float tube or boat but slllllllowly raising your rod tip out of the water and reeling in that raised line while lowering your tip again (kinda gives you a visual as to how fast you're retrieving). Or if you're super diligent, sllllllowly reel in the line at the speed of a natural. With a float/indicator presentation, you'd be limited as to how deep you could present your fly as casting will become quite difficult after the leader length from float exeeds rod tip to water clearance. But you could definitely toss it out there, and just reel in the slack line and wait for the float/bobber to dive. I dunno if that helps you at all FlyNut LOL
I've read before that you should set the hook with the fly line using the mending hand as opposed to striking with the rod. This allows you to keep the fly in generally the same location in the case that the fish is "slapping" your fly with say, its tail. I may be confused with dry fly fishing however, because I know fish at times with attempt to "drown" an insect before attacking a second time. ???
Anyways, to get kinda off-topic, I've had to cut off flies due to deep hooking using chironomids. I feel this may be when the fish are inhaling their food as opposed to sipping selectively. Or am I simply missing the lighter initial take and setting the hook too late? I've read that when releasing a fish that is deep hooked it will survive better if the hook is left and the line cut, so that the hook will either natually slip out or rust out, as opposed to goin in for open mouth surgery with forceps and forcefully removing the fly.
I leave the fly in the mouth and release the fish in hopes that the fish will grow to become much larger and wiser and more fun to catch another day. Comments?
Said that very nicely! I rarely ever deep hook a fish with a Chironomid, but if it does happen and depending on the access of removal, I would cut the fly off as well. With the sipping and inhaling of the flies it can be a variety of things for a possible deep hooking. Ie. hookset/how hard the fish actually takes the imitation/how it it played well fighting etc. The only fish I have seemed to have a problem while fly-fishing with and swallowing the hook are Blackwater Rainbows, for those of you who have not caught one before they are very aggresive and wont fool around when producing a take.
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I may be confused with dry fly fishing however, because I know fish at times with attempt to "drown" an insect before attacking a second time. ???
Most often the case.......Trout will try and "paralyze" the insect so it will be injured and not have a chance of jumping or flying away. Witnessed last weekend a person I was fishing with casting back and forth with a Sedge and a nice thick Trout keep rising at it. With dries it is a great idea to put some Aqua floatant on the wingcase, rather then feeling for a fish taking it, it can be witnessed on the surface.
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I was tubing on Lost Lake when I witnessed a traveller sedge flapping its way off the water. Since it had just begun its life in flight it was fluttering very close to the surface. I've always wondered what trout were doing jumping out of the water and this perhaps answered it for me(at least in this case). A trout jumped vertically out of the water attempting to take the fly mid flight! But not only once (since it failed), but FOUR times! Eventually the sedge won as it was able to fly away. Needless to say a well greased Mikulak Sedge worked great and boy do they slam em hard. ;D
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Interesting. Just a follow up on one of the posts in this thread. A description from the handbook:
artificial fly...a single-pointed hook that is dressed only fur, feathers, hair, textiles, tinsel and/or wire, and to which no external weight or external attracting device is attached. Two or more hooks tied in tandem not permitted. Where gear is restricted to artificial flies, floats and sinkers may be attached to the line.
Does this mean in "fly fish only" waters, you ARE allowed to use an indicator and split shot?
btw I enjoy reading the info on the chironomids on this thread over and over and over.... ;D
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Does this mean in "fly fish only" waters, you ARE allowed to use an indicator and split shot?
btw I enjoy reading the info on the chironomids on this thread over and over and over.... ;D
fly fishing....angling with a line to which only an artificial fly is attached (floats and sinkers may not be attached to the line).
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/2004/0804_01.html (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/2004/0804_01.html)
8) Thanks for getting it set-up Rodney. :)
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/2004/0804_01.html (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/2004/0804_01.html)
8) Thanks for getting it set-up Rodney. :)
Love the content of that Link! Thanks for pointing it out T.S. And thanks for Rodney for setting it up as well :) Maybe Rodney can add stuff to it as we go along, based on his experience and the feedback of the community. I think it will become one formidable resource for Chiro fishing.
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My poor man quick release indicator. 15 cents for little corky. Tube from canned air, wd-40 etc. drill bit to reem out little corky same diameter as tube. Tried it today worked great.
tight lines,
Daryle(http://www.nwlink.com/~gold/poor.jpg)
(http://www.nwlink.com/~gold/poor2.jpg)
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..great read Aaron.
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..great read Aaron.
Hey Darren, maybe you could post here a little more often eh. ;)