Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on October 25, 2013, 05:57:07 PM
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I'm looking for some new ideas for jig ties. I mainly fish jigs when targeting chum. I've tried them for steelhead, springs, coho, etc but I've only had success when target chum. Often I'll tip the jib with a small piece of prawn which seems to drive them nuts.
Most of my jigs are pretty similar. Hoping to tie up some new jigs and give my jig box a bit more variety. My typical ties are...
1- Palmered cross cut rabbit + schlappen collar. Favorite is purple rabbit and pink schlappen.
2- Palmered polar chenile + schlappen collar.
3- Marabou tail + palmered chenile (wooly bugger).
**Sometimes I'll add in some rubber legs tied in at the head before the schlappen is palmered. Also sometimes I'll add a bit of flash in the tail.
PS a while back someone told me how to post pics on FWR (think it was HOOK) but I forget how. Anyway care to remind me? Least I can do is post some pics of my jigs.
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try squid tentacles instead of prawn for steel.
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I'm looking for some new ideas for jig ties. I mainly fish jigs when targeting chum. I've tried them for steelhead, springs, coho, etc but I've only had success when target chum. Often I'll tip the jib with a small piece of prawn which seems to drive them nuts.
Most of my jigs are pretty similar. Hoping to tie up some new jigs and give my jig box a bit more variety. My typical ties are...
1- Palmered cross cut rabbit + schlappen collar. Favorite is purple rabbit and pink schlappen.
2- Palmered polar chenile + schlappen collar.
3- Marabou tail + palmered chenile (wooly bugger).
**Sometimes I'll add in some rubber legs tied in at the head before the schlappen is palmered. Also sometimes I'll add a bit of flash in the tail.
PS a while back someone told me how to post pics on FWR (think it was HOOK) but I forget how. Anyway care to remind me? Least I can do is post some pics of my jigs.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20181.0
2nd post explains picture posting.
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Best chum jig is 3/4oz jig head with purple and pink marabou, when you think there is enough marabou, add more. The bigger and uglier the better
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try using zonker/straight cut rabbit strips. fur on a zonker strip will stick straight up as opposed to laying flat like cross cut. zonker will result in a slightly larger profile in the water and have more movement. cross cut are of course easier to use because you don't need to stroke the hairs back as carefully to avoid trapping it under each consecutive wrap
also try palmering your marabou instead of clump tying it. this will allow it to puff out in the water giving it more body and movement.
tying a stiffer feather infront of marabou also helps create a vortex which allows the marabou to puff out even more. Schlappen or any long fibred hackle will work
If you live close to a moving water body then tie ONE jig when using new materials and head to the river and give it a dip and see how it moves in the current, bounce it up/down and see how the materials react. I do this ALOT with flies when im coming up with new varieties or material combinations
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Thanks guys all good tips. I was talking to a guy the other day about tying chum jigs and he said his go-to recipe is a few wraps of polar chenile in the butt to give it a bit of rear end sparkle and help the marabou puff out a bit more. Then tie in a marabou feather tip first and palmer it up (not stripping one side) to the head, then tie in a schlappen feather and palmer that for the collar.
Any thoughts on this? I've never palmered marabou but it doesn't look that tough.
Another idea: I took a steelhead intruder tying class once and we used dubbed fox tail at the butt of the fly to give the subsequently tied materials (saddle hackle or whatever) more volume. Do you think fox tail in the butt of a jig would work well to puff out marabou? I'll have to look back at my notes from that class, but I recall we just made a regualr dubbing loop with the fox, then wrapped it a few times, tied off, and brushed it back and scruffed it up a lot to give it max volume.
The instructor had this cool water tank with water circulating through it to see how flies reacted/looked in the water. You could DEFINITLEY notice that the fox tail puffed out the marabou/saddle hackle etc a lot more than without the fox.
Probably overkill on chum jigs...
And do ya'll tip your chum jigs with prawn? The other day I mixed up a tsp of pink procure in a glass, put some frozen prawns in it for 1-2 min, then dried them on paper towel. The result was a lightly died prawn. Was using small pieces 3/4 of a cm or so on the tip on my jigs and the chum were hammering them!
PS I WILL put up some pics of my fav chum jigs I've just been busy this last weekish... :o
My current jigs work fine I'm just getting bored with them and am looking for some new ties. I like the palmering marabou idea and using straight cut rabbit for the body to give more volume. I'll try both soon when I have a chance to tie some up.
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(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/Jig1_zps4b672c03.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/Jig1_zps4b672c03.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/Jig2_zpsb20d88aa.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/Jig2_zpsb20d88aa.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/TigerTamer_zps76a21c78.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/TigerTamer_zps76a21c78.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/Jig3_zpse7d4a506.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/Jig3_zpse7d4a506.jpg.html)
Finally got pics to work! Will add comments later in the day.
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Wow those look great, I'm sure they'll catch fish
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Fishy looking jigs, i like the purple headed one with ostrich and flash. Looks like a all species type slayin jig too me ;).
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Thanks guys! I was having issues with getting photo bucket to work before but I finally figured it out.
And thank you Rod it was actually your jig tying seminar at Fred's 2 years back that got me interested in tying jigs :) I still buy the odd B/R jig and either copy it or adapt it a bit. Love the B/R sickle jig hooks I buy just the bare lead or pin heads and tie my own up. Are you doing any jig tying classes this winter? Would be AWESOME to have one at Fred's specific to steelhead jigs and tips on targeting steelhead with jigs. I love fishing jigs probably my favorite way to target salmon in the river, but I've never had any luck targeting steelhead with them.
With Chum I've come to a few conclusions when targeting them with jigs:
1- Some days they like very simple small jigs. Such as cross-cut rabbit body and schlapen collar.
2- Other days I've grossly outfished other anglers who were fishing simple store bought jigs like above, with some of my custom jigs with lots of extras added like rubber legs, ostrich hurl, extra flash, etc. However other times they won't touch these jigs and prefer smaller simple jigs like #1.
3- Generally tipping with prawn seems to outfish no prawn, however some days I had better luck with just the bare jig.
Overall I couldn't drawn any solid conclusions about what jig works best under what conditions. too many variables such as angler pressure, water clarity, etc. Generally I'll start with a cool custom jig I tied with extra flash etc to get the chums attention, and if that doesn't work I'll switch to plain jigs like #1.
I have my chum smoking recipe pretty dialed in. Totally delicious, I love it and everyone who has tried it gobbles it up like mad! Check under "Fish Kitchen" if interested.
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Just re-read over this thread, lots of good info from other other anglers :) Just a few questions from a few postings...
Zap Brannigan: where you buy squid tentacles?! You mean real ones right? I've never heard of this but am will ing to try it out. Please elaborate on where you buy them, how you prep them, store them, if any curing or drying is required, etc.
Canso: Are you float fishing these 3/4 oz jigs under a float, or twitching them without a float? IMO 3/4 is heavy under a float I find 1/4 best.
HOOK: I've been tying up some jigs with palmered marabou. It's a real pain to work with! Do you tie it in tip first or butt first? I seem to get the best results by tying in butt first (snipping away some butt to get to the thinner part of the stem) then attaching hackle pliers to the tip and palmering forward while pulling the fibers back with each wrap to avoid trapping any fibers.
However, I've been told to palmer marabout tying in tip first only. I don't get what the big diff is. I tried one stripping one side and tying in butt first but it was a bit too sparse for my liking so I cut the materials off and retied with both sides on and tied in butt first. The jig looked good IMO and caught many chum. Too bad the marabou ones get ripped to shreds easily, gotta tie up lots if you find a pattern that works :o
Also re: stiff feather in front of the marabou...say if I'm using a schlappen feather...am I going to use the thin part (normally thrown away when making collars), or the fluffy part at the base?
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Yeah those are really nice looking jigs, good work on palmering the feathers.
I noticed that about the chums too, for the most part I find the sparsely tied simple jigs work best, and I've caught coho more often than not as a side catch with the sparse ones..they also become sparse quickly after a couple chum, so that helps. I also find flash on jigs usually helps but sometimes they won't go near a jig until you switch it up. However, you're correct in that switching up to a fuller jig and vice versa is the way to go.
I also use that BC Guide video as the recipe for indian candy. I 1/4 the ingredients though because there is absolutely no reason to follow amounts used in video with a little chief. I can't believe how much fish I go through this way. Great snack in the car after a cold day fishing. I'm going to try what you did and air dry it for less time after the brine. Maybe the outside will be a tad softer than my last batch.
Good work on the jigs though, especially that intruder looking one.. I'm no expert, but I've caught steelhead (...well 4) on simple rabbit fur jigs (chartreuse/pink, pink/white) tipped with prawn. Think salmon would be harder to get with jigs.
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Zap Brannigan: where you buy squid tentacles?! You mean real ones right? I've never heard of this but am will ing to try it out. Please elaborate on where you buy them, how you prep them, store them, if any curing or drying is required, etc.
I have heard of using squid tentacles (can be bought from some tackle shops) as salmon bait when trolling in the ocean, but never tipping a jig with it (Although I dont see why it wouldn't work)
Also, I have heard squid makes good short-term crab bait because it milks faster than many other options(that is, its scent trail gets going faster and stronger than other options) so perhaps this is part of the reason it works for steelhead?
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Animal Chin: yeah it seems sometimes the chum only want a certain type of jig. However I found pink + purple or colors close to those (like cerise) worked best. Most days I had to try a few different ones to find one they liked. Of cousre often it's the jig that I just tied ONE of as an experiment and 10 chum later it's ripped to nothing and just my base thread is left...like a pit bull got it! :o
Also I'm jealous you've caught 4 steelies on jigs! I kind of gave up on them as I never had a sniff fishing them as I watch the guy down river from my haul one in on roe >:( So last year I fish mosly bait but it's a love hate relationship as it makes such a mess. This season I'm going to try and hone my jig fishing skills and use them a lot for steelies. In fact when I get a chance I think I'll start a new thread regarding targeting steelehad with jigs. Gotta be something new I can learn and take to the river...
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Squid tentacles can found at Superstore
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can add some egg cure or pautzke nectar to them to add some colour and flavour aswell, i keep mine in a little zip lock with a little rock salt.
shrimp/prawn works well on jigs but the squid adds a little action along with flavour and scent plus its quite rubbery therefor a lot tougher and lasts longer on the hook.
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Canso: Are you float fishing these 3/4 oz jigs under a float, or twitching them without a float? IMO 3/4 is heavy under a float I find 1/4 best.
Yup, a 30gram float with a split shot directly under the float then swivel and 4-5' of leader depending on depth of water. I like to be a ft off the bottom.
I always fish with deli shrimp.
5/0 gamy with rabbit, marabou, whatever is around, they look ugly but work great.
I save the cute little jigs for winter steal.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/canso/2013-11-24195355_zpsafd6991c.jpg) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/canso/media/2013-11-24195355_zpsafd6991c.jpg.html)
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can add some egg cure or pautzke nectar to them to add some colour and flavour aswell, i keep mine in a little zip lock with a little rock salt.
shrimp/prawn works well on jigs but the squid adds a little action along with flavour and scent plus its quite rubbery therefor a lot tougher and lasts longer on the hook.
Fish Assassin: Thanks man next time I'm in Superstore I'll check out these tentacles!
Zap brannigan: just to clairify...do you mean you use egg cure or Patzuke nectar on tentacles...or shrimp? And what's the deal with this nectar stuff...any good? To add some color/scent to prawns I've tried adding a tsp or so of powder cure to a half glass of water and then tosing frozen prawns in there for 3-5 min. Gives them some nice color and scent. That being said I used plain raw prawn as well with as good of success.
I've heard a lot of ppl do well for steelhead making up small egg sacks with salt water hardened eggs (3-5 eggs) and adding a little bit of prawn/shrimp to the sack.
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Yup, a 30gram float with a split shot directly under the float then swivel and 4-5' of leader depending on depth of water. I like to be a ft off the bottom.
I always fish with deli shrimp.
5/0 gamy with rabbit, marabou, whatever is around, they look ugly but work great.
I save the cute little jigs for winter steal.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/canso/2013-11-24195355_zpsafd6991c.jpg) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/canso/media/2013-11-24195355_zpsafd6991c.jpg.html)
You only use 4-5 inches of leader? :o I normally run a min of 12 inches up to 2 feet if the water is slow/deep/clear. And holy crap a 5/0 hook?! Well, as long as it's working why not?! ;) I like #1 or 1/0 (I use more) for chum. I haven't straightened a hook yet but I hammer my hook sets so hard on the chummies the hook is normally burried right down to the bend and often poking through the top side of their beak. I've tried several brands of jig hooks and I like B/R sickle hooks the best. You do have to get a good hook set though or they risk bending out. Definitley no good on a noodley rod!
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4-5 ft. of leader. the only weight is directly below the float. I only do this for jigs with chums.
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I just use cooked shrimp cocktail to tip my jigs..one big/jumbo shrimp cut into 3 or 4 smaller pieces. When I'm fishing in faster water for steelhead, and because it's cold, I sometimes use spider thread to tie on chunk. It never falls off.
I've caught chum, steelhead and coho with the cooked shrimp (though coho seem to prefer sparse jigs with no prawn as others have mentioned). Raw shrimp has worked too, and I did experiment with pautzke's fire cure in bag with shrimp, but it stank, was messy and I didn't get a sniff that day steelheading. In the end, I like cooked shrimp the best because it's the cleanest and has caught me the most fish.
I personally think it works better than raw shrimp, but it may be because I use cooked more often.
I know Rod Toth of Bent Rods only uses raw and Cody at SeaRun likes the firecure in baggy with raw shrimp chunks, and both are excellent fisherman who catch a lot more fish than I do .. but my personal experience/experimentation yields greater success with cooked prawns.
YMMV.
Though, in the end when chum are on the bite I don't bother and just get my line in as fast as I can. And with steelheading, speaking from my limited experience, it seems to me what others have said often is true: you just have to find them, and it doesn't matter what you use, just present it them half decently.
I'm not sure how much it matters to tip or not. It just makes me feel more optimistic..
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I personally think it works better than raw shrimp, but it may be because I use cooked more often.
Sounds like it works great for you. No need to change then.
I have, in the last few days, seen/read multiple experts claim that UNcooked ones catch more fish than cooked ones, however. In general the closer to "fresh" any bait is, the better (except for curing/coloring/brining), but not always of course.
Bait guru Scott Amerman says "Pre-cooked/boiled prawns don’t have the scent that un-cooked prawns have."
Maybe the cooked stay on the hook longer, I really don't know, in which case it can be argued cooked is best.
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Fish Assassin: Thanks man next time I'm in Superstore I'll check out these tentacles!
Zap brannigan: just to clairify...do you mean you use egg cure or Patzuke nectar on tentacles...or shrimp? And what's the deal with this nectar stuff...any good? To add some color/scent to prawns I've tried adding a tsp or so of powder cure to a half glass of water and then tosing frozen prawns in there for 3-5 min. Gives them some nice color and scent. That being said I used plain raw prawn as well with as good of success.
I've heard a lot of ppl do well for steelhead making up small egg sacks with salt water hardened eggs (3-5 eggs) and adding a little bit of prawn/shrimp to the sack.
No water just straight firecure powder, nectar works aswell just pour it in the bag, with my shrimp I sprinkle them with firecure no water then put them in a ziplock with rock salt and keep draining any liquid, they come out real tough and last a long time on the hook.
As for bags I use whatever roe scraps I have and any leftover krill or shrimp pieces and cured up corn, garbage bags work great.
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4-5 ft. of leader. the only weight is directly below the float. I only do this for jigs with chums.
Oh, wow, ok 4-5 FEET of leader. You must be fishing some pretty deep water! Not knocking it by any means if it's working of course. Where I fish primarily, the Vedder, the water is usually less than 5-6 feet deep, and I find my jig at least a foot off bottom seems to work best for chum/coho. I've never caught a steelie on a jig so maybe I need to get it down deeper right in their face. I remember Rod Toth telling us in his seminar (assuming I rember correctly) that he advises to not exceed 2 feet of leader. However, if you're using a 3/4oz jig then it has enough weight I imagine to keep it down without it needing to be near the extra weight provided by the lead above the swivel.
My typical setup is 1.5-2 inches of 1/4 inch pencil lead above my swivel, then 12-24 inches of leader to the jig. I've been using a non-slip loop knot on my jigs for the past year or so and IMO it gives the jig better movement/catches more fish.
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Animal Chin: good tip on the spider thread! I'm going to try that this s/h season. The longer I can keep my gloves on and hands warm the better. I hate having to remove gloves and fart around with bait repeatedly on a freezing cold day. PRetty much why I rarely use skien roe in the winter it's just too much hassle/mess. Speaking of with I need to buy some single eggs and get tying up some sacks! :o
Zap B: I persoanlly like raw prawn and am going to stick with that as I have the most confidence in it, but I AM going to try this tentacle idea out this winter!
So, just so I'm 100% clear on these damn tentacles...do you need to cut them to length at all? I'm guessing you want the end/tip for sure and just cut some of the shaft off if too long? Then put in patzuke nectar (paticular scent you'd go with for these?) Now do you LEAVE them in this nectar or take them out after a while? Do they keep long in the fridge? Would you just cure up a small batch and freeze the rest...then take out more as needed? Sorry many questions...new to the tentacle scene...
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with nectar it dosnt matter if you leave them in or not dependson how messy you like your hands, cured with firecure they last longer because of the sulfites and they keep quite a while in the fridge in rock salt, cut them to whatever length you want really i like about 2 inches or so, if you get the bigger tentacles rig them up like a pink worm.
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Thanks good info! I think I'll try some just as is (unscented) and some with this Patzuke nectar I've been hearing about. Also like the idea of fishing a longer tentacle threaded like a pink worm. Got 2 nice containers of single chum eggs from Fred's today. Gonna do some assembly line style roe sack making on the days off. This steelhead season I'm not messing around!