Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on April 27, 2013, 12:20:57 PM
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http://www.leg.bc.ca/cmt/38thparl/session-3/aquaculture/reports/Rpt-AQUACULTURE-38-3-Volume1-2007-MAY-16.pdf
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Thank you Chris. This is a good read :)
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http://www.leg.bc.ca/cmt/38thparl/session-3/aquaculture/reports/Rpt-AQUACULTURE-38-3-Volume1-2007-MAY-16.pdf
Noticed this is from 2007
It always amazes me that it takes a committee to come up with this when Morton, using simple common sense has been asking for many of these things all along. Of course these are the exact things that the feedlots are still fighting against.
"Committee Findings:
While BC claims to have the most stringent regulatory regime, there are key areas which must be
addressed if BC is to further improve its reputation for having a healthy marine environment and a
truly sustainable aquaculture industry.
The Committee recommends that:
5.1 There must be a clear division between Ministry of Agriculture and Lands and the Ministry of Environment. Programs that promote aquaculture development should be within the Ministry of Agriculture and Lands. All protection, regulation and monitoring of the aquaculture industry must be within the mandate of the Ministry of Environment.
5.2 Adequate resources should be distributed accordingly to ensure a robust compliance and enforcement regime is in place with adequate monitoring and feedback.
5.3 All fish health management plans must be made public, easily accessible on the Ministry’s website, to increase transparency and to give greater confidence to British Columbians that all industry players are obeying best practice standards. This is already done voluntarily by some companies but we recommend that this should be mandatory.
5.4 Reporting can no longer rely on industry policing itself. The government as the regulator, must conduct random checks without notice to any fish farm operators.
5.5 The government must establish minimum fines that reflect the seriousness of the offences when infractions occur."
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They have Atlantic feedlots in Washington and this report came out.
I do not see Morton's name on it.
http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/01/14/salmon-runs-boom-go-bust-over-centuries/
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Nice link .. one of the authors of that report, Dr. Dan Selbie, manages DFO's Cultus Lake Salmon Research Laboratory.
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Dave,
Did you ever find a link to that lecture we attended(online) with the graph from that study and the temperature recordings of the tagged socks at they traveled up the Fraser? Such a good lecture. I would love to see it again.
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I haven't Aqua but I think another poster (Easywater?) suggested it was no longer available. That was the one by Dr.Tony Farrell, in the "speaking for the salmon" series, right? If I recall he suggested warming Fraser River water temperatures were the main reason for certain sockeye stocks to be declining.
Mykiss Crazy, or anyone else, if you read this can you give an update of how we might read or see this again?
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Old, but interesting.
"Cost to the (US)public for this expert opinion was free.
Meanwhile, 2100 miles to the south, a British Columbia judge is soon to release his report for reasons why the 2009 return of sockeye salmon to the Fraser River was equally dismal.
Cost to the public for his opinion will be about $30 million."
http://www.adn.com/2012/06/23/2517571/decline-in-king-salmon-is-rooted.html
"Oh, and the Fraser River sockeye did indeed rebound – the very next year in fact. Over 30 million salmon (the highest return in 100 years) returned in 2010.
Is there a lesson to be learned?
Yes indeed.
Lawyers and (some)environmental groups know little about salmon but a lot about spending other people’s money."
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This is why Morton should be concerned with the wild salmon in her own country as well. This was only a few steps south of our invisible border.
http://www.clubnorthwestern.com/archive/index.php/t-17140.html
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Puget-Sound-salmon-farm-kills-entire-stock-after-virus-found-154517265.html?m=y&smobile=y
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/04/30/chile-disease-problems-concern-marine-harvest/#.UYEk6x_wbX0.facebook
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“We are treating for sea lice up to two times per month in Chile, this costs a lot of money and is also affecting the feeding of the fish,” he said, adding this was the general picture for all companies in Chile.
Giving pesticides that often to fish and then selling them for food, I tought that was illegal. usally you have to stop giving pesticides for 3 or 4 weeks before selling the product. Wait maybe I'm thinking about vegetables. Fish farmers can sell whatever they want.
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Yuup. Just like the land based farmers I guess. Stupid is as stupid thinks. :)
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I am sure Fisherbob will be taking a lead in this. ;D
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-gov-jay-inslee-ban-open-net-pen-atlantic-salmon-aquaculture-in-washington-s-inland-waters?utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
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I am sure Fisherbob will be taking a lead in this. ;D
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-gov-jay-inslee-ban-open-net-pen-atlantic-salmon-aquaculture-in-washington-s-inland-waters?utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
I've come to believe that Fisherbob is mostly talk and his real motivation is to mock Morton and her valiant efforts to protect all wild salmon.
I am sure that her efforts in Canada are not going unnoticed in the US, and the same sort of effort to make the public aware of the feedlots detrimental effects on the environment will grow in the US.
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I am sure Fisherbob will be taking a lead in this. ;D
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-gov-jay-inslee-ban-open-net-pen-atlantic-salmon-aquaculture-in-washington-s-inland-waters?utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
And about time. Thank you for the link Chris. This sure will be interesting to watch for the out come and how much they will listen to a persons point of view who is not a registered biologist. :)
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Fisherbob's wishes coming along.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/science/infectious-salmon-anemia-threat-divides-scientists.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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Thanks Chris. But it may be to late since Morton is no longer a registered biologist. They must not have been told that part of the story. Good to see she is moving south though. :)
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Worthwhile read:
"Farming fish has been practiced for thousands of years, but not in the manner now underway on many temperate coasts worldwide today. Traditionally, fish that eat vegetable matter were used, such as carp or tilapia. For thousands of years Chinese fish farms have cycled waste from vegetable crops through their fish and then used the waste from the fish to fertilize the next vegetable crop. This sustainable, closed loop system created protein. In the late 1970's however, a Norwegain hydro company, Norsk Hydro initiated the first corporate effort to farm salmon.
Salmon are carnivores. No one has successfully farmed a carnivore. A terrestrial equivalent would feed chickens to dogs and eat the dog. The underlying equation in farming carnivores is a net loss in protein, and would not be profitable if full price is paid for the feed. Salmon farming takes two - five pounds of wild fish to produce one pound of farm salmon. This represents a net global protein loss as most of the fish used to make pellets are high quality food fit for human consumption. In 1999, 189,000 tons of Chilean whiting was sold to the make fish farm pellets for $12.9 million, when it could have produced $102.9 million if sold for human consumption.
Salmon farming is not sustainable. It starves one ocean of fish, and pollutes another with the same fish. Its profit margin is so slight it can not afford to deal with its own waste. Its product is of questionable food quality being high in PCBs, low in omega oils and dyed pink. It is favoured politically because it produces salmon without a river, leaving the resource rich watersheds of British Columbia open for exploitation. It is a classic example of destruction of the commons to promote the privately owned."
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For future reference.
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/salmon-farmers-association-says-bc-can-have-both-wild-salmon-and-farmed-salmon
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For future reference.
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/salmon-farmers-association-says-bc-can-have-both-wild-salmon-and-farmed-salmon
Mary Ellen Walling....... isn't she the mouth piece for the Norwegian feedlots? She wouldn't twist the truth just to benefit the feedlot shareholders would she?
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She wouldn't twist the truth just to benefit the feedlot shareholders would she?
No, she wouldn't do that because she can't. If these nasty European viruses reported by Morton were actually here and pathogenic there would also be hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of dead farmed Atlantics all over BC's coastline and in Washington State,... kinda hard to cover that up with the intense scrutiny these farms are under.
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In most peoples minds voluntary feedlot disease reporting, only providing feedlot salmon samples for testing when you feel like doing so, then telling Dr Marty, Head Fish Pathologist what he can or can't publish about feedlot diseases, does not amount to "intense scrutiny"......
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In most peoples minds voluntary feedlot disease reporting, only providing feedlot salmon samples for testing when you feel like doing so, then telling Dr Marty, Head Fish Pathologist what he can or can't publish about feedlot diseases, does not amount to "intense scrutiny"......
Working off what you have been told I see. That is why I no longer donate to mortons cause.
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http://thecanadian.org/item/2074-piscine-reovirus-pt1-new-salmon-disease-sweeping-coast-bc-aleaxandra-morton-dfo
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I'll simplify it for the farm boys. Justice Cohen- “that salmon farms along the sockeye migration route have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases...” (Chapter 2, p. 22A). “I therefore conclude,” he writes ,“that the potential harm posed to Fraser River sockeye salmon from salmon farms is serious or irreversible” (Ibid.) — a damning finding considering that, in his terminology, “Fraser River sockeye” usually means “all wild salmon”.
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I'll simplify it for the farm boys. Justice Cohen- “that salmon farms along the sockeye migration route have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases...” (Chapter 2, p. 22A). “I therefore conclude,” he writes ,“that the potential harm posed to Fraser River sockeye salmon from salmon farms is serious or irreversible” (Ibid.) — a damning finding considering that, in his terminology, “Fraser River sockeye” usually means “all wild salmon”.
That's the part of the Cohen report the feedlot boys don't like to talk about.....
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That's the part of the Cohen report the feedlot boys don't like to talk about.....
Wonder why? ::)
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Wonder why? ::)
Cause it proves them wrong......again. It's like Cohen giving them a spanking.
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http://thecanadian.org/item/2091-piscine-reovirus-part-2-evolution-salmon-farm-virus-ray-grigg-aquaculture
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Thank you Chris. That article sure puts the "grow them on land" idea to bed. :)
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Why Fishfarmerbob, are the wild salmon going to jump into the tank?
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Why Fishfarmerbob, are the wild salmon going to jump into the tank?
Do you really think a tank will solve all the negative propaganda we anti-feedlot boys keep parroting?
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we anti-feedlot boys
Please, don't even try to go there.
You are obviously a fish farm employee.
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Please, don't even try to go there.
You are obviously a fish farm employee.
You are obviously a presumer.
http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/presumer
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Your assuming he's presuming Fishfarmerbob. ;D
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Your assuming he's presuming Fishfarmerbob. ;D
Mirror mirror on the wall. :) btw TB. I have donated to Morton enough to know that categorizing people is useless. Really there is a better way to get your point across. That would be real science from hard working educated people thank you very much.
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Can you produce a receipt to prove that you have made a donation to Morton's cause?
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Can you produce a receipt to prove that you have made a donation to Morton's cause?
Not sure if she gives receipts Easywater. I'm told the Fraser River Salmon Society did not receive one when they donated $1000 to her cause. I was also told a Vancouver Yacht club donated 30k ... if true that should be searchable, I would think.
Edit. That should be the Fraser Valley Salmon Society...
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Can you produce a receipt to prove that you have made a donation to Morton's cause?
You should already know the answer to that if you have read all my posts Easywater. You will have to take my word for it. How much would be nobodies business but mine.
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http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/scotland/article1261614.ece
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It looks more like it starts up stream in the back yard.
http://www.sepa.org.uk/about_us/consultations/idoc.ashx?docid=53f236f3-1d13-4ba0-8322-cc70298e61b0&version=-1
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So, is anyone surprised ::)
Good post Fb. I wonder when people are going to get their heads around the fact that habitat protection is key to wild salmon production and farming Atlantics in the Atlantic is in no way comparable to what is happening on our Pacific coast..
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You should already know the answer to that if you have read all my posts Easywater. You will have to take my word for it. How much would be nobodies business but mine.
And you'll have to take my word that I'm next in line for the throne for the King of England, President of the USA, unicorn rancher and starring in the new version of Wizard of Oz...... ;D
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Good for you :)
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http://issuu.com/steelhead-salmon-society/docs/legacy613
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http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/opinion/208379591.html
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No net pens in Alaska? Typical American propaganda. 1.7 billion salmon a year do not forget. They grow them like pigs and cattle up there.
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http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/opinion/208379591.html
Chris, what are your opinions on what you just posted?
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http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/opinion/208379591.html
It looks like the US forest service did not know their own country has released millions of atlantic salmon into the Pacific since the early 1900s for the purpose of sport fishing. No runs were established. What three rivers on Vancouver Island have Atlantic runs?
" A U.S. Forest Service study looking at the threat of escaped Atlantic salmon establishing in the wild concluded that “long-term risks may be substantial if fish continue to escape from marine rearing pens or freshwater hatcheries.” And btw. Looks like closed containment is out of the question now also LOL.
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"And btw. Looks like closed containment is out of the question now also LOL. "
Don't know what you find funny about that. Or where you came up with that odd statement?
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"And btw. Looks like closed containment is out of the question now also LOL. "
Don't know what you find funny about that. Or where you came up with that odd statement?
Really TB. How is land closed containment going to solve all the arguments from the feedlot hater club, from whats in the feed to contaminants in the fish. “long-term risks may be substantial if fish continue to escape from marine rearing pens or freshwater hatcheries.”
http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/opinion/208379591.html?mobile=true
Of course this is just an opinion.
Growing fish in a bath tub is one of Stanford's biggest jokes. You tell me what is not so funny about what I said. I wont be holding my breath for an answer from you lol.
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http://envirolaw.com/500000-fisheries-act-fine-illegal-pesticide/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=500000-fisheries-act-fine-illegal-pesticide
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Thanks for posting that Chris, I can hear fishfarmerbob chortling away out loud reading it.
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Thanks for posting that Chris, I can hear fishfarmerbob chortling away out loud reading it.
No doubt, as it means jack squat to salmon farming here in BC. ;)
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Thanks for posting that Chris, I can hear fishfarmerbob chortling away out loud reading it.
Old news that has been discussed already TB. Did you forget already or do the fish farm hate club boys feel the need to keep saying things over and over again? I am still laughing btw :)
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http://youtu.be/nHR8PkWwsDw
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http://youtu.be/nHR8PkWwsDw
I have sat and listened to Don and can understand your stand Chris. Can we really believe what a person that lived in Canada illegally says? Just more propaganda from a drop out. Don that is :)
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I have sat and listened to Don and can understand your stand Chris. Can we really believe what a person that lived in Canada illegally says? Just more propaganda from a drop out. Don that is :)
As I know you are very interested in this file I just wanted to keep you in the loop. ;D ;D ;D
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As I know you are very interested in this file I just wanted to keep you in the loop. ;D ;D ;D
Thank you for keeping me updated Chris :)
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Do I understand this correctly ... Staniford lost and was fined an additional $125k ??
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Do I understand this correctly ... Staniford lost and was fined an additional $125k ??
You really need to start reading more than just the feedlot propaganda that you and the feedlot boys seem to have obtained your education from......
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You really need to start reading more than just the feedlot propaganda that you and the feedlot boys seem to have obtained your education from......
So, are the comments after the video posted by Chris wrong? just asking ..
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I see the comment I mentioned above, written by a "Kevin Haughton", where he claimed Staniford was found liable and was fined 125K, has been removed.
If true it would have made my day :)
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I see the comment I mentioned above, written by a "Kevin Haughton", where he claimed Staniford was found liable and was fined 125K, has been removed.
If true it would have made my day :)
I'm sure if you keep reading the feedlot propaganda you will find something else which will make your day.... however as you can see, it can't be substantiated.
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The comment sheeple cracked me up. :)
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/Columnists/2013-05-28/article-3262045/Facts-are-important-%26mdash-so-let%26rsquos-see-them/1
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/Columnists/2013-05-28/article-3262045/Facts-are-important-%26mdash-so-let%26rsquos-see-them/1
“The department has identified aquatic animal health information as highly confidential and has implemented policies and security protocols in order to protect this information. …”
The bottom line? The department has flatly refused to release information, even under access law.
How about it feedlot boys....... when are we going to have a little transparency in your industry? Why all the secrets? What are you hiding?
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"He didn’t mention that, of course, he was at one point acting minister of fisheries and aquaculture, directly responsible for the conduct of the regulated aquaculture industry, at a time when the provincial government was a crucial equity investment partner in the industry. "
there in lies the rub. His greed by human nature protecting his financial investment over the fact that raising those dirty atlantic salmon there can wipe out the wild atlantic salmon there. Sounds very familiar. ::)
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http://issuu.com/commongroundmagazinecanada/docs/cg263?mode=embed
Page 12.
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I flatly refuse to believe anything that wasn't written in fishfarmnonscience, salmonnfarmnonsense, fishfarmfallicies, feedloturdpolishing, or if it isn't approved by Marty Allen Willing, Keeth Asshferd, or Wisherrob. Or any of their puppets. See Dave- I'm coming around.
What's wrong with you guys? It's not like Justice Cohen penned this:“that salmon farms along the sockeye migration route have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases...” (Chapter 2, p. 22A). “I therefore conclude,” he writes ,“that the potential harm posed to Fraser River sockeye salmon from salmon farms is serious or irreversible” (Ibid.) — a damning finding considering that, in his terminology, “Fraser River sockeye” usually means “all wild salmon”.
He was just kidding!
:o ::)
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"potential". Key word that the "virus called fear" works on. Could, possible? Let the people that worked "Their" butts off for the Dr in front of their name publish the studies.
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FISHerbawb ON!
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You are from the east coast NB. Tell me this. What destroyed your cod and atlantic fishery and what became a result of it? BTW how is your ticker doing? :)
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Stock mismanagement, poor federal policies and an utter lack of caution and prudence. Just like they're doing out here now.
My ticker is fine, had an angioplasty years ago and made some lifestyle changes - it's my third distal biceps area that's hooped. 2 weeks to go until snip and stitch! ;)
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/salmon-test-negative-for-infectious-salmon-anemia-washington-state-study-finds/article12280263/
Alexmorton1
11:00 AM on May 31, 2013
My quote needs a few more words. ISA virus is in the influenza family and well-known to mutate on an ongoing basis, like all influenza-type viruses. This is why the flu shot from two years ago might not work this year. There are many tests for ISA virus, and one of them is a very precise lock-and-key type called a real time RT - PCR. This works well if you have a known strain of ISA virus, but if ISA virus has mutated in specific regions of its RNA since leaving the Atlantic, this test will reject the new variant and give a false negative. I am glad the US is testing, I hope these tests are accurate, but there IS a varient of ISA virus in BC that needs to be recognized and dealt with ASAP. Stay-tuned, many are working as fast as we can, in the face of obstructive measures, to bring the highest levels of science to this situation. This virus is the greatest salmon-killed known and international protocol demands it be contained.
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How about it feedlot boys....... when are we going to have a little transparency in your industry? Why all the secrets? What are you hiding?
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Try using a larger font ...
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Try using a larger font ...
The feedlot boys silence on these questions is quite revealing.....
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The feedlot boys silence on these questions is quite revealing.....
Ask AlMo when you see her tomorrow night ;D
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Ask AlMo when you see her tomorrow night ;D
That's a real turn of attitude..... You don't take her research seriously, but you're implying she is an expert on the feedlot industry's dirty secrets.
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Nah, I think she's the only person you would believe. Will you be attending this Gala Event af?
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Nah, I think she's the only person you would believe. Will you be attending this Gala Event af?
For someone who is clearly not interested in attending, you certainly seem to be making every effort to find out who is attending....
Why don't you stand at the entrance tomorrow so you can get an accurate inventory of who is attending? ;D ;)
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^times 2. I don't know why Dave is so nosey about how's attending, when it will only have that person singled out like Chris has been. :-\
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^times 2. I don't know why Dave is so nosey about how's attending, when it will only have that person singled out like Chris has been. :-\
Why attend a function with sheeple that compare a sockeye to an atlantic and imply they are the same fish. Now that is propaganda Jack. This is why I do not trust Morton or her sheeple any more. :)
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^times 2. I don't know why Dave is so nosey about how's attending, when it will only have that person singled out like Chris has been. :-\
Chris appears to be the only anti salmon farmer here on FWR to have the cojones to live up to his passion on this issue with his purchase of tickets for this event. I admire his decision and wonder why others have not come forward, proudly, to say they will attend as they sure seem to support AlMos' crusade, anonymously..
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Read the post above yours Dave.
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Read the post above yours Dave.
Happy to see you are getting the picture like I did TB. :). I guess we are what Morton once called traitors :)
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Chris appears to be the only anti salmon farmer here on FWR to have the cojones to live up to his passion on this issue with his purchase of tickets for this event. I admire his decision and wonder why others have not come forward, proudly, to say they will attend as they sure seem to support AlMos' crusade, anonymously..
If I didn't know better I would say that there is a small thread of sincerity in what you posted..
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Happy to see you are getting the picture like I did TB. :). I guess we are what Morton once called traitors :)
The only thing I'm seeing is how easily you confuse what you read. No doubt that's why you layed that truckload of cash on Morton. ;D
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http://commonground.ca/2013/06/wild-salmon-warrior-news/ (http://commonground.ca/2013/06/wild-salmon-warrior-news/)
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Not looking good. :(
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/06/03/nl-salmon-farm-quarantine-603.html
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Not looking good. :(
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/06/03/nl-salmon-farm-quarantine-603.html
For Newfoundland.
The good news is if you are indeed following this issue and attempting to learn rather than simply forwarding press release's from other people of your persuasion you would know this latest East coast ISA finding is not applicable to BC, or Washington State salmon farming issues. ::)
Dave, awaiting the posse ;)
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For Newfoundland.
The good news is if you are indeed following this issue and attempting to learn rather than simply forwarding press release's from other people of your persuasion you would know this latest East coast ISA finding is not applicable to BC, or Washington State salmon farming issues. ::)
Dave, awaiting the posse ;)
You gotta be suffocating with your head in the sand like that.....
Reading this should be a lesson of what will certainly happen on the west coast. When the feedlot industry says it isn't and won't happen here we should be very worried.
On the other hand look for cheap virus infected feedlot salmon on your local grocery store shelves soon.
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On the other hand look for cheap virus infected feedlot salmon on your local grocery store shelves soon.
And soon, on a few select local FN reserves and road side stands. Interestingly, I'm told a past Chief of perhaps the least salmon conservation minded band of the Sto-Lo groups, Cheam, was to be standing alongside AlMo at the Gala. What's up with that? Salmon farming bad - FN overharvest OK?
The virus they will be serving is IHNv, very common in Fraser River sockeye and like ISAv, harmless to people or other warm blooded animals. Endangered Early Stuarts and small population summer runs will soon be available to those that want them, as they always are and will be till they're gone because there is a lucrative market; FN fishers will fish them, conservation and upstream FN band concerns be damned.
I will eat a farmed Atlantic over one of these sockeye any day.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/06/06/nl-salmon-infected-eradication-606.html
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/06/12/norway-isa-cases-doubled-so-far-this-year/?utm_source=wysija&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=europe_newsletter_june_12
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/06/12/norway-isa-cases-doubled-so-far-this-year/?utm_source=wysija&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=europe_newsletter_june_12
Another fish farm epidemic - pancreas disease.
Wild Steelhead killer?
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Wild Steelhead killer?
Huh?
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If you Google "pancreas disease salmon" you will see a bunch of links outlining that this problem affects Atlantic salmon and rainbow trout.
Farmed Atlantics and steelhead are certainly mixing in the ocean.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17718709
Morton has a number of articles on the subject for what it's worth:
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2012/06/first-detection-of-salmon-alphavirus-in-bc-farmed-steelhead-1.html
http://sustainablecoast.ca/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=676:morton-reports-more-salmon-viruses-found&Itemid=121
"Wild" is a bit of misnomer - I used it as an attention grabber - it would include hatchery fish as well.
This year was a stinker for steelhead.
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"Wild" is a bit of misnomer - I used it as an attention grabber - it would include hatchery fish as well.
This year was a stinker for steelhead.
It did indeed get my attention, but not so much now. Thanks for the clarification Easywater.
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Don debating at a fish farm in Tofino. ;D ;D
http://youtu.be/xaerOqd1EYM
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Don debating at a fish farm in Tofino. ;D ;D
http://youtu.be/xaerOqd1EYM
LOL. Looks to me like Don (An American funded foreigner from England) and his sheeple got schooled by an Ahousaht. :) Was Don not sent home for being an illegal immigrant in Canada? Btw Chris, where is this farm you speak of? I did not see it in this feeble attempt of Don's circus act.
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http://youtu.be/xaerOqd1EYM
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Some more reading for the PAP gang. ;D ;D
http://issuu.com/steelhead-salmon-society/docs/legacy713
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http://youtu.be/Vs0WRvggT18
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Really sad. Don't know who's sicker, the fish, the fishfarmers doing this, or the Canadian government for allowing them to dump all those chemicals into our waters. Almost unbelievable that people can support this type of farming.
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The concerns continue to spread.
http://cwf-fcf.org/en/discover-wildlife/resources/online-articles/funding-stories/our-beef-with-aquaculture.html#.UcDbvaZ4sIU.facebook
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Chris, do you actually read this stuff before you post it?
I think not as this is simply more east coast problems that are irrelevant to our aquaculture practices in BC.
"Many populations of Atlantic salmon in NB and NS and several Pacific salmon species are at risk of extinction according to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada (COSEWIC), so the risks from open-pen salmon aquaculture are especially important."
How ambiguous is that?
My question, what wild BC COSEWIC listed salmon stocks are impacted by salmon farms? I believe two are listed, Cultus Lake sockeye being one. How are salmon farms affecting this stock?
Now, what wild BC stocks are at risk of extinction from overfishing or habitat loss... I can name several, including several chinook stocks in our Fraser River backyard right now.
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Chris, do you actually read this stuff before you post it?
I think not as this is simply more east coast problems that are irrelevant to our aquaculture practices in BC.
"Many populations of Atlantic salmon in NB and NS and several Pacific salmon species are at risk of extinction according to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada (COSEWIC), so the risks from open-pen salmon aquaculture are especially important."
How ambiguous is that?
My question, what wild BC COSEWIC listed salmon stocks are impacted by salmon farms? I believe two are listed, Cultus Lake sockeye being one. How are salmon farms having affecting this stock?
Now, what wild BC stocks are at risk of extinction from overfishing or habitat loss... I can name several, including several chinook stocks in our Fraser River backyard right now.
Its a world wide problem Dave.
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http://translate.google.com/translate?hl&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftouch.vg.no%2Farticle.php%3Fartid%3D10111318
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http://translate.google.com/translate?hl&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftouch.vg.no%2Farticle.php%3Fartid%3D10111318
Whatever that link said, sure much was lost in translation but ... what's it got to do with salmon farming in BC ::)
Jack squat.
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So your saying it's OK to dump some pretty freaking serious chemical tonnage onto the ocean floor to get some dirty fish Dave. :-\ Pretty sure they do the same crap here, when there not having to disclose it because of the reporting structure.
Best wine to serve with farmed "dirty style" salmon would have the quality of syrup of epicac. :P
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The concerns continue to spread.
http://cwf-fcf.org/en/discover-wildlife/resources/online-articles/funding-stories/our-beef-with-aquaculture.html#.UcDbvaZ4sIU.facebook
Unlike land-based farming practices however, diseases, parasites, and food and pharmaceutical waste from finfish aquaculture operations freely flow from the open-pens into the surrounding marine environment.
Yep...no risk of diseases or parasites spreading from land-based farming.
http://www.oie.int/for-the-media/animal-diseases/animal-disease-information-summaries/
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/influenza/avian-eng.php
Many populations of Atlantic salmon in NB and NS and several Pacific salmon species are at risk of extinction according to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada (COSEWIC), so the risks from open-pen salmon aquaculture are especially important.
I agree with Dave that this part of the article is ambiguous. As outline in the Cohen Final Report, Pacific Salmon may experience a wide range of stressors which can include aquaculture. While Cohen did conclude that diseases from fish farm operations can pose a risk he also did say that there was no evidence that diseases were spreading out of control from BC fish farms. Cohen made many recommendations and they included more than just aquaculture. If the author is going to start talking about Pacific salmon species at risk then he needs to not leave out the other stressors as they are important also.
For instance, there was no mention of climate change, marine conditions, contaminants, loss of habitat, migratory conditions along the Fraser (water temperatures and discharge). In fact, Cohen concluded that the single greatest risk to Fraser Sockeye during upstream migration is increasing water temperatures (Volume 2; Chapter 5 Findings, page 117). Late-run Sockeye that have been entering the Fraser 3 to 6 weeks earlier than normal are experiencing water temperatures 5 deg. C. warmer than normal. There was also no mention of declining productivity which is not exclusive to Fraser River Sockeye. By avoiding a balanced discussion of the available evidence, the author tends to lead the reader to there being one cause for declines (aquaculture), but it is unrealistic to (in my opinion) to believe that one single thing leads to a decline or a mortality event. It is more likely a interplay of different factors that leads to these declines or mortality event. Many of the salmon carcasses you see on the spawning grounds can have many endemic pathogens in them, so it is often difficult to say what killed the fish.
TB, instead of saying something that Dave clearly didn't say, why don't you try to understand what he was getting at in this quote.
This position is in alignment with the conclusions of many other agencies concerned with the state of wildlife in Canada including Atlantic Salmon Federation, the Royal Society of Canada, and the federally appointed Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River (i.e. the Cohen Commission).
Actually part of this position is not in alignment with the recommendations from Justice Cohen. This is what Cohen actually said:
Recommendation #18:
If at any time between now and September 30, 2020, the minister of fisheries and oceans determines that net-pen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) pose more than a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River
sockeye salmon, he or she should promptly order that those salmon farms cease operations.
Recommendation #19:
On September 30, 2020, the minister of fisheries and oceans should prohibit net-pen salmon farming in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) unless he or she is satisfied that such farms pose at most a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon. The minister’s decision should summarize the information relied on and include detailed reasons. The decision should be published on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ website.
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Marine Harvest continues to demonstrate their irresponsible environmental stewardship.....
http://forargyll.com/2013/06/sepa-has-case-to-answer-as-foi-reveals-toxic-sea-bed-residues-below-nearly-20-of-salmon-farms/ (http://forargyll.com/2013/06/sepa-has-case-to-answer-as-foi-reveals-toxic-sea-bed-residues-below-nearly-20-of-salmon-farms/)
"15 of the 28 fish-farms with samples in breach of Environmental Quality Standards for Slice are operated by Marine Harvest (Scotland) Limited.
Although Marine Harvest is the biggest operator in Scotland of salmon farms and is shortlisted for the Stewardship Award at tonight’s Crown Estate sponsored Marine Aquaculture Awards 2013, this is a higher than expected number of breaches from Marine Harvest farms."
Of course the feedlot boys will likely insist that Marine Harvest has an impeccable record in BC (or is it just that they havn't been caught yet). ???
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Alexandra Morton
So... with the heated debate whether toxins in Norwegian farm salmon is a threatening unborn babies, warnings hidden by government for 7 years as sushi consumption sky-rocketed, four of Norways largest markets threaten to stop selling farm salmon until it lowers the toxins, Russia is questioning importing it anymore and a French article suggests the Norwegian government will do anything to protect the industry....Norway offers to boost its ownership of Cermaq (farming here as Mainstream) to help the struggling farm salmon multinational to keep producing farm salmon. What IS IT about this industry that governments find so attractive!
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Did you notice that a AVC is missing off the list of ISA reference labs. Must be an OIE conspiracy, Ms Morton.
http://www.oie.int/en/our-scientific-expertise/reference-laboratories/list-of-laboratories/
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Alexandra Morton
So... with the heated debate whether toxins in Norwegian farm salmon is a threatening unborn babies, warnings hidden by government for 7 years as sushi consumption sky-rocketed, four of Norways largest markets threaten to stop selling farm salmon until it lowers the toxins, Russia is questioning importing it anymore and a French article suggests the Norwegian government will do anything to protect the industry....Norway offers to boost its ownership of Cermaq (farming here as Mainstream) to help the struggling farm salmon multinational to keep producing farm salmon. What IS IT about this industry that governments find so attractive!
Donations to the ruling parties.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/local-orca-numbers-lowest-in-10-years-1.327612 (http://www.timescolonist.com/local-orca-numbers-lowest-in-10-years-1.327612)
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Even the Norwegians are threatening to ban the sale of the feedlot product in their major grocery stores:
http://www.nosalmonfarmsatsea.com/archives/663 (http://www.nosalmonfarmsatsea.com/archives/663)
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Alexandra Morton
The thunder roles on in Norway:
The clock rounded 0730. He stood up, checked their e-mail. A new message caught his attention: a picture of the first page in the INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE. Titled "doctors and professors about farmed salmon: don't give to the children." One of its titles sounded; "May produce brain damage."
Christian Chramer, Communications Director of the Norwegian seafood Council, did not have to fight to rub the sleep out of his eyes. He was wide awake.
...
Close to the worst scenario
So the first page in the country's most widely read newspaper, with such a title and picture is tight up against the worst case. Tight up against the worst scenario. Early on a Monday morning. We had not received any prior notice that such a thing could come, "he told the northern lights.
-The only thing that could have been worse, was that there was truth in the allegations.See More
www.na24.no/article3639552.ece?fb_action_ids=10151693372960050 - Translator
www.microsofttranslator.com
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Here's the translation--will be cut into parts:(Northern Lights) clockwise around 0730. He stood up, checked e-mail. A new message caught his attention: A picture of today's front page of VG. The title "Doctors and professors of farmed fish: Do not give salmon to the children." One of the titles saying, 'May cause brain damage. "
Christian Chramer, communications director of the Norwegian Seafood Council in Tromso, did not have to fight to rub the sleep out of his eyes. He was wide awake.
SERVICES
Super card you must obtain
Near the worst scenario
- Such a front page in the country's most read newspaper, with such a title and image, is close to the worst case. Hugging the worst scenario. Early on a Monday morning. We had not received any notice that such a thing could be, he says to Nordlys.
- The only thing that could have been worse, was that there was truth in the allegations.
Out of War
The seven that make up the communications staff in seafood council knew what would be their job this Monday, the 10th June and the following days. They had to go to war. In the fight to protect the reputation of the gold in the Norwegian fish exports. Farmed salmon.
Last year, exports of Norwegian salmon unimaginable 29 billion. Domestic consumption in Norway is also very large. Norwegians are world champions in eating salmon. High values are at stake when such serious allegations arise.
SALMONIDS PREPAREDNESS: They have been on Alert salmon under debate in recent days, communication advisors Geir Bakkevoll and Lars Fredrik Martinussen and colleagues at the Norwegian Seafood Council in Tromsø. Photo: Thorgrim Rath Olsen
Geir Bakkevoll, Communications and the Christian Chramer weapons girders in seafood council learned of it already at 0615 this morning. He received an sms from a friend with the following message, read VG.
The contingency plan
Then it snowballed. 0730 was the communications department in Seafood Council notified. At 0800 the rest of the organization. 0900 is the first mediehenvendelsen, from the media industry in the seafood industry, login.
Half an hour later met communications department, two from the management team and responsible for the Norwegian seafood market to meet in the meeting room shanties, the Seafood Council headquarters Strandveien in Tromsø.
They took out the emergency plan. Issues Management Plan. Communications Staff's battle plan for dealing with such situations. Handling negative media coverage, which may have the potential to damage the reputation of Norwegian salmon in Norway or in the major international markets. Bad news tends to spread rapidly as viruses, across borders. Out in the vast international market
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EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS PLAN: Communication staff in seafood council has a contingency plan to deal with possible reputation threats. Photo: Thorgrim Rath Olsen
Protecting
- Here you must think in seafood communications mitigation?
- We invest the hundreds of millions per year in building brand Norwegian seafood both in Norway and abroad. We perceive it as natural task to protect and enhance the brand.
- We do this with the thought that people should be confident that Norwegian seafood is wholesome and good. Our job is not to define what is healthy, but to ensure that the facts and information coming out of both consumers and importers of Norwegian seafood, says communications director Chramer.
Warned
The substance in VG lookup in print and online were health experts warned against contaminants in farmed salmon. The main source was the Norwegian doctor Anne-Lise Birch Monsen in Bergen, referring to the so-called persistent organic pollutants found in salmon feed, which among other things can have a negative effect on brain development.
"I do not recommend pregnant women, children or young people eating farmed salmon. It is uncertain in both the amount of toxins salmon contains and how these drugs affect children, adolescents and pregnant, "the doctor said to the newspaper.
Norwegian News Agency brought the case on the country. Online Media threw themselves on. A debate about farmed salmon and pollutant grew in strength.
Not intimidated
- This I do not believe anything. That was my first thought about the allegations. I did not believe it had come completely new facts during the weekend, which means that you suddenly can discourage children to eat salmon, says Chramer.
He did not believe that some doctors with one punch could change the established official dietary advice from the Norwegian health authorities, that we should eat fish for dinner at least two to three times a week.
His colleague in the communications staff, Communications Lars Fredrik Martinussen, was not intimidated.
- It is that we are safe on the Norwegian matovervåkningssystemet, the Norwegian research and the current dietary guidelines. All safety because we internally communications department has practiced such situations.
Lion each year
They are trimmed to meet such situations, communications staff at the Norwegian Seafood Council, south of Tromsø.
- The requirement of alertness and quick reaction to negative media coverage in the various markets has increased. We spend more resources on such emergency today than when I started in 2007. At that time we were two staff on communications, today we have seven, says Christian Chramer.
Little drama
How would they handle the media debate about contaminants in farmed Norwegian salmon, which began with a posting in VG Monday 10 June? It was the main theme as the staff sat around the table in the meeting room at Rorbua. 0930 this Monday.
- But the atmosphere was a little dramatic, little tense. The case was based, clearly the tasks, according Chramer.
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SALMONIDS DEFENSE: Despite regular news about salmon escapes, sea lice, toxins, the Norwegian farmed salmon good reputation in the Norwegian and international market, according seafood Council. The value of salmon exports and domestic sales in Norway are increasing. Photo: Terje Marøy
- Yes, you should see us stressed, you need to see us during the annual exercises, says communications Lars Fredrik Martinussen.
Well prepared
They practice annually on crisis management, with scenarios such as oil spills or radioactive emissions that could potentially threaten the Norwegian seafood's reputation.
- We see the value of being well prepared. This is probably something I have with me from my military background, having good, realistic exercises. That means that when something happens, you can not react with paralysis or panic, says Chramer, who has worked as Chief of the Army.
At the 0930 meeting this Monday was the description of the situation. What were the allegations and facts in VG's coverage of the dangerous farmed salmon? Responsibilities were divided: Responsibility for monitoring the media debate, keep in touch with the media. Keeping contact with the authorities and agencies that have expertise in food research and food safety, as Food Safety Authority and the National Institute of Nutrition and Seafood Research (NIFES). Contact the seafood industry. Contact the organization, particularly with Seafood Council's 12 field offices.
All responsibility for monitoring and engagement on social media.
- We run many websites, plus many channels of social media, both in Norway and abroad. We have 81 000 followers on our Facebook Page Norwegian, for example. We selected during the morning to go out with a fairly aggressive strategy to communicate via social media.
Long days
The debate about farmed salmon has affected their everyday work throughout the past week. Long days from 0800 am until 0100-0200 at night for some. Several media have brought new issues to the table on salmon and food security. New voices have come in and nuanced picture of the dangerous salmon.
Norwegian debate and what happens on the Norwegian market is important, even for a typical export-oriented seafood industry. Very important. Communications Director Christian Chramer explains why:
Bad news spreads quickly
- Norway is a large market with high consumption of seafood. It is the home base for the formation of opinion. Bad news in Norway is spreading quickly to other markets, and often with new questions and approaches.
- When should one time been at the forefront. Have translated facts from such FSA, to English, Spanish, French or German.
Communications Director Christian Chramer says that different markets, different countries may have their particular issues related to food security.
- Some countries have had other food-related issues over the years. In Italy scandals around mozzarella cheese, the China scandals surrounding additives in milk replacer, horse meat scandal in Europe. We must be prepared.
- Have the salmon case attracted attention abroad so far?
- No. It has been mentioned by TT, which is Sweden's answer to the NTB, and in Svenska Dagbladet. But beyond that, very little.
Refines advice
Chramer think salmon debate is starting to slow. Still, the Norwegian health authorities that salmon is healthy and that we should eat more of it. Directorate of Health has announced a clarification of dietary advice when it comes to fatty fish, like salmon, to young women and pregnant women. The Council is a maximum of two fatty fish meals a week to those groups.
- Crisis management has been successful?
- It must be second rate. The final verdict comes from consumers, in terms of trust and willingness to buy salmon.
The salmon is popular
- Nourishes can any fear of the salmon hits a snag in the Norwegian market as a result of this?
- No, I do not. The warning from the authorities is still very clear: we should eat more fish. At the same time the salmon very strong in Norway. It is very popular in all groups, from young families to senior centers. The reports we have received from the retail sector indicate that it is quiet.
- But you can not avoid that there are some contaminants in farmed salmon?
- I do not agree that there is a lot of contaminants in salmon. Salmon is a healthy product. It is also a fact that we humans over the past century has been able to produce toxins that come to us through many different foods, including seafood. But the National Institute of Nutrition and Seafood Research, nifes, said in a message this week that contaminants have decreased in salmon. Not up, one could get the impression by media stories over the past week.
The storm subsides
Today, a week after the alarm went off the Norwegian Seafood Council, the communications director Christian Chramer assured that the storm is about to subside.
- Salmon has become part of everyday habits of most Norwegians. Allegations from a doctor or chef cooking for those who can afford to pay 2500 dollars for a meal, does not change the national character. Or by products that have entered the everyday diet.
Believe Chramer, which has lowered guarden anything. For right now he guides reporters from Singapore on the press trip in farming Norway. The Norwegian media debate about pollutants in salmon is probably not on the day's schedule.
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The feedlots are developing quite a reputation for killing things..... reminds you of the tobacco companies.
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http://fishfarmsout.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/chemical-pollution-of-the-sea-bed-continues-unabated-under-salmon-farms/
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http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/20609/isa-outbreak-confirmed-in-norway
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http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=96
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http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=96
Great article Chris!
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Great article Chris!
Yes and some think Alex was the only one concerned about FF fish and her concerns were unfounded. How will some others respond to this one?
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What year was this article posted, Chris? The reason I ask is because most of what is posted is old news - much of it has been either refuted because it was highly misleading (i.e. Hites et al 2004) or examined more closely which resulted in a little more clearer picture of our current knowledge, impacts and where we need to go (i.e. Cohen recommendations). Here is an example:
"The debate is over," said study co-author Alexandra Morton, a biologist with the Raincoast Research Society. "This paper brings our understanding of farm-origin sea lice and Pacific wild salmon to the point where we know there is a clear severe impact."
Well, actually it wasn't when this 2006 study came out. For example, Cohen examined this in more detail. Strange how Cohen is not even mentioned in the website you posted.
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol02_05.pdf#zoom=100
Even stranger that this was not posted on that website either. Why are fish farm critics like Ms Morton uncomfortable with this peer-reviewed study?
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract
This is actually a balanced, objective study that came out in 2012. Where is this on that website you provided?
http://people.landfood.ubc.ca/anthony.farrell/pubs/p337_Brauner_et_al_2012.pdf
Recent evidence is pointing to an increase in abundance in Pink salmon in the North Pacific. Clearly, the interaction between pathogen, fish and environment is not so clear cut as Ms Morton stated above.
http://www.npafc.org/new/pub_technical8.html
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As usual Stevey, you are so focused on defending the feedlots that you missed the point of the article.
The article has been published by a non-profit foundation that has no commercial interests nor does it accept advertising. It's focused on a healthier environment and healthier foods. http://www.whfoods.com/whoweare.php (http://www.whfoods.com/whoweare.php) "The George Mateljan Foundation for the World's Healthiest Foods was established by George Mateljan to discover, develop and share scientifically proven information about the benefits of healthy eating, and to provide the personalized support individuals need to make eating The World's Healthiest Foods enjoyable, easy, quick and affordable."
Feedlot salmon are not healthy for the environment and when compared to wild salmon they are not healthy for humans either.
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As usual Stevey, you are so focused on defending the feedlots that you missed the point of the article.
The article has been published by a non-profit foundation that has no commercial interests nor does it accept advertising. It's focused on a healthier environment and healthier foods. http://www.whfoods.com/whoweare.php (http://www.whfoods.com/whoweare.php) "The George Mateljan Foundation for the World's Healthiest Foods was established by George Mateljan to discover, develop and share scientifically proven information about the benefits of healthy eating, and to provide the personalized support individuals need to make eating The World's Healthiest Foods enjoyable, easy, quick and affordable."
Feedlot salmon are not healthy for the environment and when compared to wild salmon they are not healthy for humans either.
Of course you would take it as defending fish farms because like the Omega issue on this forum you can't see the forest through the trees. Actually, I think you missed most of the article.....and of course failed to read the research since the 2006 sea lice study. I picked out one example of this "scientifically proven information" in my previous post. From the information I provided it is pretty clear that way pathogens (in this case sea lice) interact with their host did not end with the Krkosek et al 2006 study. Even Morton et al 2011 seemed to agree,.....but farm critics would rather just sweep that study under the carpet because it doesn't align with the message.
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http://commonground.ca/2013/07/wild-salmon-warrior-news-2/ (http://commonground.ca/2013/07/wild-salmon-warrior-news-2/)
" I do not recommend pregnant women, children or young people to eat farmed salmon.
–Norwegian doctor Anne-Lise Birch Monsen"
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http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/General/Frequently-Asked-Questions-About-Fish_UCM_306451_Article.jsp
Q: Are there differences in Omega-3 fatty acid content between wild fish and farmed fish?
A: Some farmed fish can have higher levels of omega-3 fatty acid than wild fish, and vice versa.
The omega-3 fatty acid content of wild fish can vary by the temperature of their environment (i.e., higher during the summer than winter), while the omega-3 fatty acid content of farmed fish can vary based on what they are fed.
The American Heart Association recommends eating fish at least twice a week, especially species high in omega-3 fatty acid such as salmon, mackerel, herring and trout, regardless of whether they are wild or farmed.
Q: If I eat fish at least twice a week, should I worry about contamination?
A: For middle-aged men and for post-menopausal women, the benefits of eating fish a few times per week far outweigh the potential risks.
As fish consumption increases, the number of fatal cardiovascular events decreases and the cardiovascular benefit increases. Research has shown that omega-3 fatty acids may help decrease the risk of arrhythmias (irregular heartbeats) and may help slow the growth rate of artery-clogging plaque. Scientific evidence shows that eating fish is associated with reduced cardiovascular risks and increased health. Based on these benefits, and the fact that most people do not eat recommended amounts of fish, it seems reasonable to recommend that people eat more fish.
For women who are or may become pregnant, nursing mothers and young children, the benefits of eating fish twice per week are also greater than the potential risks. However, four specific fish species (shark, swordfish, king mackerel and tilefish) should be avoided to minimize exposure to mercury. In addition, albacore tuna can be eaten but should be limited to six ounces (one average meal) per week. See the EPA and FDA advisory for up-to-date detailed information.
The potential risks from other contaminants (such as PCBs or dioxins, which are also found in trace amounts in many foods) are exceedingly small relative to the benefits of eating fish, so you don’t need to be concerned about eating fish because of this potential issue. (If you eat a lot of sports-caught freshwater fish from local waters, check your local advisories.) Consumers should remove the skin and surface fat before cooking to reduce the risk of eating contaminants.
The public is at greater risk of cardiovascular diseases than any illness related to eating farmed or wild salmon. I guess this means that the American Heart Association has joined the OIE in this big conspiracy now...lol.
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You gotta like how they avoid the question of contaminants.....
Coles notes answer: "We know the contaminants are bad for you but please be advised that the Omega-3 is good for you...."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226.short (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226.short)
"......... Having analyzed over 2 metric tons of farmed and wild salmon from around the world for organochlorine contaminants, we show that concentrations of these contaminants are significantly higher in farmed salmon than in wild. European-raised salmon have significantly greater contaminant loads than those raised in North and South America, indicating the need for further investigation into the sources of contamination. Risk analysis indicates that consumption of farmed Atlantic salmon may pose health risks that detract from the beneficial effects of fish consumption."
Smart folks will avoid the contaminated feedlot stuff and find an alternate source for their Omega 3.
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You gotta like how they avoid the question of contaminants.....
Coles notes answer: "We know the contaminants are bad for you but please be advised that the Omega-3 is good for you...."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226.short (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226.short)
"......... Having analyzed over 2 metric tons of farmed and wild salmon from around the world for organochlorine contaminants, we show that concentrations of these contaminants are significantly higher in farmed salmon than in wild. European-raised salmon have significantly greater contaminant loads than those raised in North and South America, indicating the need for further investigation into the sources of contamination. Risk analysis indicates that consumption of farmed Atlantic salmon may pose health risks that detract from the beneficial effects of fish consumption."
Smart folks will avoid the contaminated feedlot stuff and find an alternate source for their Omega 3.
Funny how some people are so consumed with contaminants when in reality they are extremely low and are not the real problem.
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Funny how some people are so consumed with contaminants when in reality they are extremely low and are not the real problem.
Kinda like how some people are so concerned with the health factor of smoking that they are missing the opportunity to be "cool"...... 8)
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If were like smoking.....but what the heck...it's better to just recreate hysteria and fear in the consumer. Better not to tell them what foods are a greater risk to their health so that the cause of the Wild Salmon Saviours can be preserved.
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If were like smoking.....but what the heck...it's better to just recreate hysteria and fear in the consumer. Better not to tell them what foods are a greater risk to their health so that the cause of the Wild Salmon Saviours can be preserved.
I got a pin bone from a wild Bonaparte plateau rainbow stuck in my tonsil once. ER visit to get that thing out.
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http://www.gfwadvertiser.ca/News/Regional/2013-07-11/article-3310190/Salmon-at-risk/1
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Geez Chris where do you find this stuff....... ;D
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http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/loss-of-wild-salmon-disease-doctor-will-have-major-impact-1.541651
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You end up on neo-con Harpers hate list and your days are numbered. We need our own version of wiki-leaks to find out the reality. But people voted the sucker (you) in so I guess their the ones who are really responsible.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/world/Enemies+state+almost+Complete+List/8673716/story.html
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http://hqcomoxvalley.com/news/local/news/v/Local/226734/Wild-salmon-activists-fight-for-credibility
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http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/printable.asp?id=62305&l=e&ndb=1&print=yes
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Hmmm ......crystal violet, what next bath salts. :-\ Don't call dem dirty fish for nothing .....maybe they do need a bath.
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http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/public-prevented-from-knowing-about-diseased-farmed-salmon/
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Fish-lab decision was a good one
Times Colonist
July 19, 2013
Email
Re: “Loss of wild-salmon disease doctor will have major impact,” July 16.
In the column, the actions of the World Animal Health Organization in pulling the infectious-salmon-anemia reference status at Dr. Fred Kibenge’s lab are presented as a negative. In fact, the organization’s decision should be viewed as a positive one. The organization conducted an audit with an international panel of scientific experts and found a series of weaknesses affecting the quality of diagnoses performed at the lab — which led to the unanimous decision by the general assembly of the organization to delist the lab.
This news should reassure the public, as it shows that labs carrying international designations are held to high standards.
It is correct that several thousand wild salmon were tested and no ISA was found. Thousands of Atlantic salmon have also been tested for ISA and those tests were also negative.
ISA is a concern for B.C. salmon farmers — it has the potential to have an impact on our industry. That’s why our fish are tested and why we support ongoing wild- and farmed-fish monitoring programs.
All the world’s oceans are connected, so it makes sense that viruses that have been found in other areas might eventually be found in B.C. That’s why ongoing monitoring of both wild and farm-raised fish is important so if a virus that causes disease, as not all do, does appear, it is found quickly and can be dealt with.
Mary Ellen Walling
Executive Director, B.C. Salmon Farmers Association
Campbell River
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Alex's response to above.
Ah Mary Ellen, you are sounding increasingly shrill, and a titch nasty. But what is really revealing is that your desperate attempt to set the stage for ISA virus being confirmed in BC without your industry being implicated.
"All the worl...d’s oceans are connected, so it makes sense that viruses that have been found in other areas might eventually be found in B.C. "
Hmm really? This time you really are going to need some data .... so head for the north coast of Canada and start fishing and see if you can find ISA virus in anything there.... And when you find it, publish a paper and we can go from there.
Or option two, come clean and drag your industry into responsible behaviour and get out of the ocean. We all know at this point that there is no way to run salmon feedlots in net pens without massive pathogen production.
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Hey Chris, would ya post the link to that article?
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Alex's response to above.
Ah Mary Ellen, you are sounding increasingly shrill, and a titch nasty. But what is really revealing is that your desperate attempt to set the stage for ISA virus being confirmed in BC without your industry being implicated.
"All the worl...d’s oceans are connected, so it makes sense that viruses that have been found in other areas might eventually be found in B.C. "
Hmm really? This time you really are going to need some data .... so head for the north coast of Canada and start fishing and see if you can find ISA virus in anything there.... And when you find it, publish a paper and we can go from there.
Or option two, come clean and drag your industry into responsible behaviour and get out of the ocean. We all know at this point that there is no way to run salmon feedlots in net pens without massive pathogen production.
Hey Chris perhaps you can ask Ms Morton about her knowledge of Molly Kibenge's supposedly positive samples from SE Alaska in 2002 or 2003?
Why is Ms Morton not taking the advice of her vet - Dr. Kibenge?
Currently, testing for ISAv is done using RT-PCR, an internationally recognized and highly sensitive test that screens tissue samples to see if viral genetic material — or viral sequences — indicative of a particular virus is present. Each virus has a unique genetic sequence, and the test determines whether that sequence is present in a sample.
“It is important to note that the presence of ISAv sequences in tissue samples does not necessarily mean that the actual disease, ISA, is present in the subject fish or that ISA is present in the area where the fish were collected,” said Dr. Kibenge. “Viral material can be present in animals without them actually having the associated disease. In order to confirm whether an infectious viral disease is present, further testing is required.”
The OIE definition (confirmation) of ISAv infection requires that the virus be successfully grown in cell culture. Thus, the PCR test should be viewed as a highly sensitive screening test that, if positive, is only the first diagnostic step in documenting an ISAv infection, should one exist.
http://avc.upei.ca/dr-fred-kibenge-invited-testify-bc-salmon-inquiry
Why is Ms Morton not saying everything about Dr. Miller's, Dr. Nylund's or even Dr. Kibenge's findings regarding ISAv and ISA?
http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=12816
http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/2011.11.03%20Interview%20with%20prof%20Are%20Nylund%20UiB.pdf
http://www.cahs-bc.ca/sites/default/files/Miller_GenomicSignatures_Jan2011-V2.pdf
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol02_04.pdf#zoom=100
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol02_05.pdf#zoom=100
While we are on the subject on producing data, perhaps Ms Morton can produce her own virus surveillance report (methods, chain of custody, sample size, sampling areas, results, conclusions, etc.), similar to the CFIA and the WDFW, which proves her own theories on ISAv and ISA.
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Just curious Steve that you and the rest of the feedlot crew ran away from the thread about the stuff under the net pens. No courage to your convictions? ;)
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They're busy googling the feedlot propaganda sites looking for "science" that shows the crap under the net pens is actually good for the environment..... ::)
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http://thecanadian.org/item/2208-norwegian-salmon-virus-discovered-in-bc
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Just curious Steve that you and the rest of the feedlot crew ran away from the thread about the stuff under the net pens. No courage to your convictions? ;)
Actually it is more like not a lot of patience with fear mongerers and more time needed for fishing and family life. I have lots of courage for my convictions as you seen already on this thread. Perhaps you can comment on Ms Morton's behalf? I noticed how the fear mongerers on this forum have deflected quite nicely from this. Perhaps you can comment on supposedly positive samples in SE Alaska? Perhaps you can show me where Dr. Kibenge or Dr. Nylund were mistaken for what they said or how Dr. Miller really didn't say all what she did about ISAv and ISA? Maybe you know the whereabouts of Morton's virus surveillance report - the one that shows ISA is present in our waters? I am interested in those "Mythbusters" you promised to unleash on me.
As for benthic impacts they have been discussed extensively already. A video is tossed out like a bone with a little meat on it and some of you guys pounce on it like a bunch of flies. Showing a bunch of YouTube videos is one thing, but actually having some sort of understanding on what is actually done is another. However, it will never be enough for those already drunk on Morton Kool-Aid, so that is why some of us are apathetic towards contributing much to it.
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.............. A video is tossed out like a bone with a little meat on it and some of you guys pounce on it like a bunch of flies................
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQjxamBe03M)might be a more apt analogy
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I now eagerly await your response, Novabonker.
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http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2013-07-27/article-3329261/Salmon-anemia-cause-for-concern%3A-minister/1
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..and another one drops to the jungle floor..........
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..and another one drops to the jungle floor..........
You're starting to make as much sense as Fisherbob..... sounding more and more like him as well.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-205547/Salmon-health-alert.html
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-205547/Salmon-health-alert.html
"But Dr Jeffery Foran, an American toxicologist involved in the study, said neither he nor his family would eat farmed salmon again after what he discovered."
Its Alaska farmed salmon season. Throw Dons name in it and I have to ask, did the same foundations fund this study that funded Mortons debunked studies?
Media at its best and another one drops to the jungle floor. :)
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Actually it is more like not a lot of patience with fear mongerers and more time needed for fishing and family life. I have lots of courage for my convictions as you seen already on this thread. Perhaps you can comment on Ms Morton's behalf? I noticed how the fear mongerers on this forum have deflected quite nicely from this. Perhaps you can comment on supposedly positive samples in SE Alaska? Perhaps you can show me where Dr. Kibenge or Dr. Nylund were mistaken for what they said or how Dr. Miller really didn't say all what she did about ISAv and ISA? Maybe you know the whereabouts of Morton's virus surveillance report - the one that shows ISA is present in our waters? I am interested in those "Mythbusters" you promised to unleash on me.
As for benthic impacts they have been discussed extensively already. A video is tossed out like a bone with a little meat on it and some of you guys pounce on it like a bunch of flies. Showing a bunch of YouTube videos is one thing, but actually having some sort of understanding on what is actually done is another. However, it will never be enough for those already drunk on Morton Kool-Aid, so that is why some of us are apathetic towards contributing much to it.
Read through my posts- I haven't referred to Morton anywhere. I have enough common sense to look objectively at what I do know and what is already proven beyond doubt in Europe.If you can debate that point you'll have lost any credibility at all. As well I can draw on what happened at the Saddle Island area where the lobster population was decimated as I've noted before, but as one of the feedlotters pointed out, there was an abundance elsewhere. These are simple and undeniable facts. You can try twisting and spinning but it won't work.
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Read through my posts- I haven't referred to Morton anywhere. I have enough common sense to look objectively at what I do know and what is already proven beyond doubt in Europe.If you can debate that point you'll have lost any credibility at all. As well I can draw on what happened at the Saddle Island area where the lobster population was decimated as I've noted before, but as one of the feedlotters pointed out, there was an abundance elsewhere. These are simple and undeniable facts. You can try twisting and spinning but it won't work.
I referred to Ms Morton because Chris brought up the response by her and I commented on it. You suggested that I ran away from the benthic impact posts, but clearly left out the fact that you and other fear mongers didn't even address my comment and the questions I raised. You also didn't follow up with those "Mythbusters" back in the other thread. Even when I responded to the benthic impacts you still kept "side-stepping"...lol. Who is really doing the avoiding, NB?
You can look objectively? Really? How so?
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Paint it with any brush you like Steve and try to spin my words, but you can't deny a few facts- 1 - the crap that comes from feedlots and settles to the bottom is filthy and full of chemicals and 2 - the same feedlots you defend so vigorously haven't proven to be the most responsible industries in , oh , let's say Norway, Scotland, Ireland and other places (like Saddle Island where there are NO MORE lobsters) they've turned into toilets and chemical soup. But I digress Sidestep and I'm sure you'll try some way of twisting these 2 simple facts and tell us it's no worse than chocolate ice cream.
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Paint it with any brush you like Steve and try to spin my words, but you can't deny a few facts- 1 - the crap that comes from feedlots and settles to the bottom is filthy and full of chemicals and 2 - the same feedlots you defend so vigorously haven't proven to be the most responsible industries in , oh , let's say Norway, Scotland, Ireland and other places (like Saddle Island where there are NO MORE lobsters) they've turned into toilets and chemical soup. But I digress Sidestep and I'm sure you'll try some way of twisting these 2 simple facts and tell us it's no worse than chocolate ice cream.
No spinning at all, NB. I have been chasing and you have been running. For all I know you have ran as far as Ireland now where you are sharing a brewski with old Don talking about what went so wrong at the BC Court of Appeal. But I have to admit it is getting boring now.
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There you go again. Have you ever seen me quoting Don anywhere? No. As far as busting myths, I'm going to have to chip away , a little at a time. Despite being unable to physically work, my business is growing with sales up immensely since the HST got tossed ( much to AF's chagrin.) I apologize that I'm not able to deliver in a timely fashion. But please, AGAIN, I politely ask you not to spin my words or invent things and angles about me personally that just don't exist. They're not true and it bothers me that you spew innuendo that's utterly false . Sad to see you're doing that, as I do believe it cheapens you're side in the debate.
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Take the rest of the weekend off and read what you write NBs. :)
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There you go again. Have you ever seen me quoting Don anywhere? No. As far as busting myths, I'm going to have to chip away , a little at a time. Despite being unable to physically work, my business is growing with sales up immensely since the HST got tossed ( much to AF's chagrin.) I apologize that I'm not able to deliver in a timely fashion. But please, AGAIN, I politely ask you not to spin my words or invent things and angles about me personally that just don't exist. They're not true and it bothers me that you spew innuendo that's utterly false . Sad to see you're doing that, as I do believe it cheapens you're side in the debate.
What words was I "spinning"?
Hmmm...this is from the same person that said I must have had a paper route for a job....or was it making burgers...or was it Mary Kay....or was it all three? Ahh yes...the Ghost of Forum Past reveals some interesting stuff. Where you the same person that hounded me through most that thread wanting to know what I did for a living while trying to act funny and contributing little to the discussion, but still decided to assume that I was an fish farm industry shrill anyway. If you ever really read my posts it is it pretty clear what I do - I am a biologist. Absolon has even mentioned it. Did you not say the following after posting a rugby illustration to ridicule me further. Seems like you enjoy dishing it out, but not taking a little ribbing back:
Any time you want to play some rugby, let me know. My team needs a practice dummy and since you're apparently unemployed, we'd be pleased to pass around the hat after to help you out. I can give you a few bucks to mow my lawn and the wife will pay you a bit to scrub the toilet. It all adds up and we'll go through the larder and come with a few cans of beans and maybe some mac and cheese.
Enough about me Sidestep- How are you holding up being unemployed? Cheer up sunshine- Mary Kay sales aren't for everybody.Maybe you could try Amway or something else. I also think you'd make a great burger/ fries dude or sandwich artist as well with that charming personality. Dare to dream!
Did you not call me out a little while ago on this forum (actually this same thread) and asked why I and the rest of the crew ran away from the thread about benthic impacts followed by a little kick in the arse shot?
Just curious Steve that you and the rest of the feedlot crew ran away from the thread about the stuff under the net pens. No courage to your convictions?
So, what were you saying again about me inventing things and angles about you personally that just don't exist or spewing innuendo that's utterly false, Novabonker? I will make this real simple: If you are going to come after me on this forum and call me out while being a hypocrite in the process be prepared for a response. If you or any of your friends here want to talk about the issues, without accusing others of being industry shrills because they do not agree with you, then I am prepared to do that.
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What words was I "spinning"?
Hmmm...this is from the same person that said I must have had a paper route for a job....or was it making burgers...or was it Mary Kay....or was it all three? Ahh yes...the Ghost of Forum Past reveals some interesting stuff. Where you the same person that hounded me through most that thread wanting to know what I did for a living while trying to act funny and contributing little to the discussion, but still decided to assume that I was an fish farm industry shrill anyway. If you ever really read my posts it is it pretty clear what I do - I am a biologist. Absolon has even mentioned it. Did you not say the following after posting a rugby illustration to ridicule me further. Seems like you enjoy dishing it out, but not taking a little ribbing back:
Any time you want to play some rugby, let me know. My team needs a practice dummy and since you're apparently unemployed, we'd be pleased to pass around the hat after to help you out. I can give you a few bucks to mow my lawn and the wife will pay you a bit to scrub the toilet. It all adds up and we'll go through the larder and come with a few cans of beans and maybe some mac and cheese.
Enough about me Sidestep- How are you holding up being unemployed? Cheer up sunshine- Mary Kay sales aren't for everybody.Maybe you could try Amway or something else. I also think you'd make a great burger/ fries dude or sandwich artist as well with that charming personality. Dare to dream!
Did you not call me out a little while ago on this forum (actually this same thread) and asked why I and the rest of the crew ran away from the thread about benthic impacts followed by a little kick in the arse shot?
Just curious Steve that you and the rest of the feedlot crew ran away from the thread about the stuff under the net pens. No courage to your convictions?
So, what were you saying again about me inventing things and angles about you personally that just don't exist or spewing innuendo that's utterly false, Novabonker? I will make this real simple: If you are going to come after me on this forum and call me out while being a hypocrite in the process be prepared for a response. If you or any of your friends here want to talk about the issues, without accusing others of being industry shrills because they do not agree with you, then I am prepared to do that.
You're losing it Stevey.....
Word of advice..... stick to talking about feedlots and how good they are for wild salmon...
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Ahhh...and Whiner #2 now appears to offer advice. Thanks.
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Ahhh...and Whiner #2 now appears to offer advice. Thanks.
Sideswap,
Churchill said it best.
"Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
Leave the poor boys alone, they are sensitive and get "easily bothered".
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Yes and I get punches thrown at me all the time- ( see posts in this thread and elsewhere- no crying from me) I take it with a grain of salt, and swing back. I'm sorry your so sensitive and will try in the future to consider how easily you become emotionally injured by my posts.
Meanwhile, back at the farm......
Has there ever been an independent study of the slop at the bottom of the feedlots? No Farmfisherbawb, not some claptrap from farmfishnonscience, but from a totally independent source? I'm curious to see what the results revealed.
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Yes and I get punches thrown at me all the time- ( see posts in this thread and elsewhere- no crying from me) I take it with a grain of salt, and swing back. I'm sorry your so sensitive and will try in the future to consider how easily you become emotionally injured by my posts.
Good on ya Novabonker.... The feedlot boys appear to be a sensitive lot and we don't want to say anything that might hurt their feelings. ;)
This thread is about the Aquaculture threat to our coastal environment and apparently they take that personally.
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Yes and I get punches thrown at me all the time- ( see posts in this thread and elsewhere- no crying from me) I take it with a grain of salt, and swing back. I'm sorry your so sensitive and will try in the future to consider how easily you become emotionally injured by my posts.
Really?
But please, AGAIN, I politely ask you not to spin my words or invent things and angles about me personally that just don't exist. They're not true and it bothers me that you spew innuendo that's utterly false . Sad to see you're doing that, as I do believe it cheapens you're side in the debate.
Unless one is doing it for the sheer joy of childish bickering, there isn't a lot of point in trying to have a discussion with someone who can't be consistent in what they say or the standards they apply and who won't concede their own obvious error even when it's staring them in the face.
Meanwhile, back at the farm......
Has there ever been an independent study of the slop at the bottom of the feedlots? No Farmfisherbawb, not some claptrap from farmfishnonscience, but from a totally independent source? I'm curious to see what the results revealed.
Perhaps you should go to Google and see if you can find your own answers rather than expecting someone else to do it for you. Report back on what you find.
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Off topic a bit but does anyone know why AlMo's web site, "Salmon are Sacred", is down?
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http://www.great-alaska-seafood.com/alaska-seafood-faqs.htm
from one rancher to the farmer :)
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I made my point . Not one of the pro feedlotters can come with an iota of proof that the garbage under the netpens is anything but toxic sludge. Despite trying to twist what I posted and "look it up yourself", they all tucked their tails between their legs and tried shooting the messenger.
Good on ya Novabonker.... The feedlot boys appear to be a sensitive lot and we don't want to say anything that might hurt their feelings. ;)
This thread is about the Aquaculture threat to our coastal environment and apparently they take that personally.
Exactly. They can sling mud at me until the cows come home. I clean up real good! ;)
And, unlike a few here, I know how to grow a.......
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/220px-Alexander_Lucas_101010_zps0fb1e68e.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/220px-Alexander_Lucas_101010_zps0fb1e68e.jpg.html)
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Threw them back under the netpen NB.
Time will tell the whole story about frankenfarming like these chem pilots espouse. Hopefully it's before too much damage is done. I just hope their wolfing down the dirty fish they keep rimming off on.
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Off topic a bit but does anyone know why AlMo's web site, "Salmon are Sacred", is down?
May be using the same Webhost provider that Rodney uses..... ;) (His site was down a few days ago)
Trying to catch up on some good reading Dave?
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I do enjoy reading her stuff, nearly always makes me smile ;)
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I made my point . Not one of the pro feedlotters can come with an iota of proof that the garbage under the netpens is anything but toxic sludge. Despite trying to twist what I posted and "look it up yourself", they all tucked their tails between their legs and tried shooting the messenger.
Seafood for the Future did a nice peer-reviewed evaluation of the sustainability of the BC salmon farm industry that might answer some of your questions about the "toxic sludge" NB. Jump to page 16, Benthic and Chemical Impacts.
http://seafoodforthefuture.org/docs/SFFSalmonProducerPartnerEvaluation.pdf (http://seafoodforthefuture.org/docs/SFFSalmonProducerPartnerEvaluation.pdf)
There has been routine monitoring and scientific studies of salmon netpen wastes going on since the industry started, many that should meet your definition of "indepedent" but I can appreciate it might be hard for the average citizen to find them through google rather than an academic search engine. There seems to have been a lot of "adaptive management" going on with the fish farms; making changes as they go to their farming practices as problems are identified to minimize their environmental footprint.
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Yes and I get punches thrown at me all the time- ( see posts in this thread and elsewhere- no crying from me) I take it with a grain of salt, and swing back. I'm sorry your so sensitive and will try in the future to consider how easily you become emotionally injured by my posts.
And now for the complaining.....
But please, AGAIN, I politely ask you not to spin my words or invent things and angles about me personally that just don't exist. They're not true and it bothers me that you spew innuendo that's utterly false . Sad to see you're doing that, as I do believe it cheapens you're side in the debate.
Sure sounds like someone that takes it with a grain of salt and doesn't complain....Right..lol?
Caught red-handed and still not able to man-up to it. However, I kind of expected this from you. Thanks.
As for the second part of your response I already posted something for you and you didn't even consider it. I agree with Absolon, go find your own answers. You don't believe what I post anyway so what is the point?
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.......and the stated reason for not considering the material you posted in response to his question?
In his own words.........
Sorry shoeswap, I'm just an ignernt redneck and unable to make much sense of that bafflegab........
Somehow that has transmogrified into this
I made my point . Not one of the pro feedlotters can come with an iota of proof that the garbage under the netpens is anything but toxic sludge. Despite trying to twist what I posted and "look it up yourself", they all tucked their tails between their legs and tried shooting the messenger.
But ask him to provide some support for his contention that it is toxic sludge under the sea pens .......ooops........where'd he go...........oh right........he's off to complain that no one will provide him an answer and to boast about how he showed them up and to post a picture of a pear that he claims he grew.
Serious discussions indeed!
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I'm sorry you're so lathered up Steve. Thank you StillAqua for the civil response. Let's take a trip back in time..... My family arrived here in the 1751 http://www.progenealogists.com/palproject/ns/ - Gotz and Zinck, on the Pearl and the Murdoch - and relied on the sea for sustenance and income. Through the generations, most stayed at it. My grandfather and his brother owned a processing facility,my mom in the office, my Dad was first mate on a scallop dragger. Even when I was a kid, I was expected to stay out of school during lobster season for a week or two to help with trap pulling and bait bag stuffing to help out an uncle.While my family never made the Forbes list, we always had food, clothes and a roof over our heads. But, through mismanagement and , yes, overfishing, this disappeared when I was growing up. Gone was a way of life that had provided for many years as cod was one , if not the primary source of income.The devastation to the families was horrendous, my own family had a suicide, that still has effects and will for the rest of my life.
My motivation is simple - I see much the same happening here. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. Just a little research into the corporate responsibility that many of the companies that have set up shop here have exhibited in other countries and even other areas of Canada make me highly doubtful of them as white knights. I've seen what has gone on in the British Isles and know for a fact that an area sited near where I grew up has problems associated with the fish farm there. I wouldn't be much of a man if I didn't make noise, even if it rubs some people the wrong way.
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And now there is Aquaculture because greed took care of an unsustainable wild fishery. Some day you will get over it NB. :)
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And now there is Aquaculture because greed took care of an unsustainable wild fishery. Some day you will get over it NB. :)
Blah de blaw. Blaw blaw blaw . Netpenning blaw de blaw blaw blaw.
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Blah de blaw. Blaw blaw blaw . Netpenning blaw de blaw blaw blaw.
I would not expect a better reply from you TB. Just keep to the mumbling and bring nothing to the topic. :)
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Blaw blaw blaw :)
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Exactly my point. :)
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23550159
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http://www.nosalmonfarmsatsea.com/archives/814
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http://www.fishnewseu.com/latest-news/world/11071-irish-take-lice-war-to-europe.html
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There's that Marine Harvest name again.....Farmfisherbawb will be along shortly to tell us what wonderful folks they really are at heart.....
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There's that Marine Harvest name again.....Farmfisherbawb will be along shortly to tell us what wonderful folks they really are at heart.....
Its ok Bonkers. If you think I am a fish farmer, I can see why you are sucked in by Morton. It would be "fun" for me to think you and the blind mice club are on her pay roll. Cant prove it, but it is fun to think it is true hehe. :)
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Nice try Farmfisherbawb - How about a spirited defense if Marine Harvest and their practices abroad ? Can't do any better than that? ::)
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Nice try Farmfisherbawb - How about a spirited defense if Marine Harvest and their practices abroad ? Can't do any better than that? ::)
Working on memetics now Bonkers? :). Try posting links of the farming in Maine, Washington, and Alaska. If the rest of the world farmed like them there would be no debate Lol. :)
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Spin, spin, spin.Deflect, spin. When you can't defend, you spin! I don't live in those areas and that has jack squat to do with Marine Harvest's dismal record and their "wonderful record of corporate responsibility ;D :o". But spin on!
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Working on memetics now Bonkers? :). Try posting links of the farming in Maine, Washington, and Alaska. If the rest of the world farmed like them there would be no debate Lol. :)
Can't do it Bonkers can you. Nice denial tactic you have though. Feeble at best lol :)
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http://archive.bangordailynews.com/2002/07/12/penalty-phase-set-in-fish-farm-pollution-case/
http://www.bc.edu/dam/files/schools/law/lawreviews/journals/bcealr/27_1/03_TXT.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4ZBbYzyuwF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dJoGvHBaS8&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zheaUQqehnw&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IKf6QJtVdw&feature=player_embedded
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Enough YET Farmfisherbawb?
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Working on memetics now Bonkers? :). Try posting links of the farming in Maine, Washington, and Alaska. If the rest of the world farmed like them there would be no debate Lol. :)
Try reading this again Bonkers. One old archive? Sheesh follow the money lol :)
And here is a little history leason for you yong man :)
http://fwcb.cfans.umn.edu/courses/nresexotics3002/GradPages/AtlanticSalmon/Atlantic_Salmon_History.htm
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http://www.davidsuzuki.org/publications/downloads/2001/Super_Un_natural.pdf
I'll take a Dr. Volpe ant day over the self serving crap you post.
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But then I'll let you read this peer reviewed piece, from people that really know what they're talking about and not some crap dream whipped up by the pr department. Your house of cards is falling down Farmfisherbawb.....
http://www.law.ubc.ca/files/pdf/enlaw/salmonfarming04_20_09.pdf
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Outstanding Bonkers, I truly did not think you could fit another foot in your mouth. :)
http://youtu.be/XkEt965hZFo
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Outstanding Bonkers, I truly did not think you could fit another foot in your mouth. :)
http://youtu.be/XkEt965hZFo
From the master of foot in mouth, I'll take that as a compliment! Because every link you put up from the feedlots is absolute gospel truth. ::)......And none of it, not one word is self serving rubbish or propaganda at all!
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From the master of foot in mouth, I'll take that as a compliment! Because every link you put up from the feedlots is absolute gospel truth. ::)......And none of it, not one word is self serving rubbish or propaganda at all!
Boom,,, you jumped ship like I did NB. :)
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Why is this one you're on named Titanic?
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Why is this one you're on named Titanic?
you got it Nb. Morton was my captain. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/09/26/alexandra-mortons-heartland-institute/
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you got it Nb. Morton was my captain. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/09/26/alexandra-mortons-heartland-institute/
Review - No reference to Ms. Morton, but lots of renowned scientists. Your posts? Self serving rancid manure from under the feedlot. But, I could see how someone so easily led by the fiction you've been posting in this thread alone could feel so embarrassed or fail to see why those with 2 active brain cells see through the, um, pollution you post. Carry on little buddy! One day you'll catch on. Maybe.
So - how much did you donate to the worthy causes before you started being used as a tool for the feedlots?
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Review - No reference to Ms. Morton, but lots of renowned scientists. Your posts? Self serving rancid manure from under the feedlot. But, I could see how someone so easily led by the fiction you've been posting in this thread alone could feel so embarrassed or fail to see why those with 2 active brain cells see through the, um, pollution you post. Carry on little buddy! One day you'll catch on. Maybe.
So - how much did you donate to the worthy causes before you started being used as a tool for the feedlots?
Now now Bonkers, no need to get angry. :)
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/haters-gonna-hate
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No anger, just amusement . I saw and continue to see otherwise intelligent people trying to cover the stains on their underwear. Sad, but funny in a sick way. Avoid, obfuscate, misdirect and sidestep relevant questions with a highly questionable and somewhat delusional agenda, even when presented with rock solid facts from independent and peer reviewed scientests. I feel sorry for those folks.
Oh, and excuse me but I'm not a hip hopper or a rapper so I wasn't sure of your slang references to the "meme". I confess to being utterly ignorant of these references .
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No anger, just amusement . I saw and continue to see otherwise intelligent people trying to cover the stains on their underwear. Sad, but funny in a sick way. Avoid, obfuscate, misdirect and sidestep relevant questions with a highly questionable and somewhat delusional agenda, even when presented with rock solid facts from independent and peer reviewed scientests. I feel sorry for those folks.
Oh, and excuse me but I'm not a hip hopper or a rapper so I wasn't sure of your slang references to the "meme". I confess to being utterly ignorant of these references .
I am happy you recognize the tactics that I picked up while I was on your side of the fence. Perhaps this referance is better suited to your limitations. :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics
While you seem to have the time today, check the thoughts about some peer reviewed papers on these two sites:). Don't hurt yourself holding on to your info too tight hehe.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/scientific-peer-review4.htm
http://www.nature.com/nature/peerreview/debate/
Sorry young man, but it seems what we have been handed is debunked and simply useless. :)
http://www.newsdata.com/fishletter/242/4story.html
http://greenspiritstrategies.com/alexandra-morton/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXkzHkw0wo&feature=share&list=UU-5Y6qRv0YWO7g89trNHixw