Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: katfish on August 30, 2012, 09:35:09 AM

Title: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: katfish on August 30, 2012, 09:35:09 AM
I have fishing my whole life but only fly fishing for 3 years.  I have been using my Dads 6# 9' dragon fly setup.  It broke and I am getting him a new one as it is under warranty.  I wan to get my own and I am tempted to go with dragonfly.  They  might be cheap but they warranty their products.  I have never fished with anything else so I don't know what I am missing...

How much more pleasurable is it to have a more expensive rod. It makes no difference to the fish, but what value is it for me?  Action?  Feel?.  I can't afford 700 bucks but could afford something better than a $50 dragonfly set up. 

Thanks for your advice.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Tex on August 30, 2012, 10:14:51 AM
Hey Katfish!

Dragonfly has been making affordable rods for some time now, and they definitely get the job done.  If you enjoy casting them, that's the most important thing! 

That said, you might find there are other rods out there that you enjoy casting more.  Rods are rated based on "weight", as you know, and also "action", as you've referenced.  Fast-action to slow-action rods are available on the market, plus a bunch that are in between.  Over the past decade or two, faster action rods have become increasingly popular for their ability to generate line speed in short order and shorten the learning curve for some.  That said, I also know some guys that hate casting the fast-action rods and swear by slow-action noodles, they find the fast-action rods to have no soul.  What YOU like depends on how you cast.  :)

My recommendation would be to get out there and try casting a few different rods.  Borrow a friend's.  Stop by your local flyshop and see if they'll let you test-cast a few of their rods that are in your budget.  You might be surprised to find that you like a $110 rod more than a mid- to high-end rod.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Tex on August 30, 2012, 10:40:42 AM
I should also add some personal experience.  I really like getting the best bang for my buck, which means I often look for mid- to high-end rods that go on sale or that I can get at a discount (ie. used).  I enjoy these rods because they are made with better components and tend to last longer than the cheap outfits.  Plus, as I've gotten older I've come to appreciate a well-made rod that looks nice, where more time and care is taken when it comes to things like thread wraps and cork, so that also makes having a nicer rod more "enjoyable" these days for me.  :)
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: ajransom on August 30, 2012, 05:59:31 PM
I just got a Redington CT which I love. They have them at Wholesale Sports in Langley for $110, down from $160. They also have Sage Vantage which are about $100 off right now. I also have a TFO Signature model which is another cheap but great rod. There are plenty of great rods out there at affordable prices.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Carich980 on August 30, 2012, 06:10:30 PM
Check out Pieroway Rods, Local rods and decently priced.

If your on a serious budget, cant go wrong with St. Croix, Echo or TFO. Reddigton rods have always performed well for me as well.

But the Cool kids all go with Sage.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: TayC on August 30, 2012, 06:19:45 PM
Check out Pieroway Rods, Local rods and decently priced.

If your on a serious budget, cant go wrong with St. Croix, Echo or TFO. Reddigton rods have always performed well for me as well.

But the Cool kids all go with Sage.


can't go wrong with Echo, excellent customer service and warranty. Rajeff likes to make quality stuff at a low cost.

check out the echo solo rods, excellent casting rods for $100
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: DanJohn on August 30, 2012, 07:27:25 PM
Heres the thing, its more so about YOU than the rod. Sure there are better quality rods than the Dragonfly lineup. But, I really think it comes down to what you know.

I have 3 rods, all 5 weights (well, the 10ft WW is a 6 wt, but lined with 5wt), one is noodle soft, softer than a noodle! The other 2 are Amundson Wind Warriors, 9 and 10 foot rods. The 10 footer is a medium fast action, the 9 footer is more of a broomstick fast 5 weight, and better suited to a 6 weight line really. The point is, if I fish one for a few weeks, and switch to either of the others, I absolutely suck! I cannot cast. They all require a different cast and timing. If I fish that rod for a few days, it is fine. I can, and have hit backing on all 3 rods. But, if you put one in my hand and I havent used it for a while, I will be horrible with it. I have also used a Sage Vantage for a while, and I just did not like that at all. The Z-Axis I tried out, and liked it very much. Not what it retails for, but it was nice. The Vantage was just gross to me. I do not know why. But, after the 2nd hour of using it, I did get into its rythm, and I made it work. I got 70 foot casts with it, and it did catch me fish. I still didnt like it though. I would say, if you have friends who can lend you rods, borrow one for a day, try it, work it, and get used to it. If you like it, go for it. Overall though, your ability to adapt to a rod will be more of a factor than if the rod is "good" or not. If you are set in the action you prefer, then you should get that. If you dont care, than get whatever rod and get used it. Personally, I prefer the medium fast action of the 6wt 10 foot wind warrior, underlined to 5wt. I like the softness of my soft rod for short, light dry fly fishing, and my 9 foot wind warrior tosses streamers and works best with Salmon season.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: iCemAn on August 30, 2012, 10:29:15 PM
Set your budget, test a few rods at your local shop and pick the one that feels comfortable and meets your needs for the type of fishing you do. Don't get caught up in the name when you are starting off, but the warranty can be very important if you do break a rod. It also depends on what waters and what the type of fish you are fishing for. With a 6wt I am assuming you are wanting an all around rod for fishing lakes and small rivers.

One of my first rods was a Dragonfly 596 and it served it's purpose, until I broke it and replaced it with a Sage DS2. That rod was ok, but a little slow for my liking. I have owned everything from a $75 rod to my newest addition to my collection, a Sage One 5100. But I also fish a Sage Flight 386 for my creek rod right now and I also have a Redington CT 3wt which I have tried yet.

Personally, if you have a limited amount of money, I would rather have a couple entry to mid-range rods the fish the conditions rather than spending all your money on one rod.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Tex on August 31, 2012, 09:24:26 AM
Personally, if you have a limited amount of money, I would rather have a couple entry to mid-range rods the fish the conditions rather than spending all your money on one rod.

This is GREAT advice provided the entry to mid-range rods you pick are rods that you enjoy casting and will last.
:)
Tex
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: katfish on August 31, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
Thanks for the tips.  I am leaning towards dragon fly since this is the rod I learned on, but it seems prudent to try a few more on for size.  I won't get hung up on brand name.  As mentioned sage is the cool rod, but heck I've always been a bit nerdy anyway.   ;D. I see guys decked out with thousands of dollars of gear.  I got nothing against that but my scots blood can't do that or my wallet.  You'll see me in the fly shops!


Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: cutthroat22 on August 31, 2012, 11:03:06 AM
I bet you a $50 dragonfly combo and a $1000 combo catch the same number of fish  :)

I would prefer to spend any extra money on line/extra spools/flies.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: iCemAn on August 31, 2012, 07:18:13 PM
I bet you a $50 dragonfly combo and a $1000 combo catch the same number of fish  :)

I would prefer to spend any extra money on line/extra spools/flies.

And a Civic gets you to the same place as a Ferrari, but to each there own.

Like I previously said, spend the money getting multiple setups over 1 expensive one. I just prefer having too many expensive setups now. Does it catch me more fish? Tough question... Like I said it fully depends on the fish you are targeting and the waters. I don't need a  $500 reel to catch trout, but it sure is fun when you get a large hot fish on it.

Spend what you feel is appropriate on gear and you will have a great time no matter what you use.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: HOOK on August 31, 2012, 08:02:49 PM
by the way ALOT of the so called cool kids DONT fish Sage  ::)

there are so many rods that a comparable and even better than Sage for alot less cash.

you would be amazed at the amount of guys i know that fish Pieroway rods and you can even have them customized.

I have fished rods through the spectrum from Dragonfly all the way to the highest end Sages. my old Dragonfly was the only rod i never felt i would snap if i laid into a fish and guess what !! i landed springs over 40lbs on it more than once and tons more fish over a 10yr span before someone bought it from me.


If i was to go and buy a single hander for salmon i would lean towards one of these companies i could buy locally

Temple Fork
Pieroway
Echo
St. Croix

i dont personally like the Redington rods, my buddy loves his but it feels like a 2x4 to me

now if i was to buy online i would look into but not limited to

Allan fly fishing
Aleka (i see the link on this site alot and have checked it out)

all these are in the mid range (pieroway is a little in the higher side of mid range) or mid to lower end range when it comes to price. the top few all have great components and are put together very well. my dilemma would be choosing !!!

buying online im always a little skeptical of but i have gotten hooks from Allan FF and they were as good as Tiemco hooks in quality at a fraction of the price  ;D i also know that he stands behind his products.

if your on a super tight budget then i would go with a Dragonfly over the crap you can grab at Canadian Tire or Walmart

that is all  :P
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: dereke on August 31, 2012, 10:07:03 PM
And a Civic gets you to the same place as a Ferrari, but to each there own.

Like I previously said, spend the money getting multiple setups over 1 expensive one. I just prefer having too many expensive setups now. Does it catch me more fish? Tough question... Like I said it fully depends on the fish you are targeting and the waters. I don't need a  $500 reel to catch trout, but it sure is fun when you get a large hot fish on it.

Spend what you feel is appropriate on gear and you will have a great time no matter what you use.

Agreed iCemAn especiallywhat is in bold. It all depends how far you want to go with it. I have a bit of extra cash these days and LOVE to flyfish so I go more expensive. Not stupid expensive but I do love my Sage, Loop, and G Loomis higher end Reels and Rods. The difference isn't huge but if the budget allows why not go for it. Actually IMO the difference from bottom end to top end is quite different and the extra $$$ is well worth it.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Carich980 on August 31, 2012, 10:19:55 PM
by the way ALOT of the so called cool kids DONT fish Sage  ::)

there are so many rods that a comparable and even better than Sage for alot less cash.

you would be amazed at the amount of guys i know that fish Pieroway rods and you can even have them customized.

I have fished rods through the spectrum from Dragonfly all the way to the highest end Sages. my old Dragonfly was the only rod i never felt i would snap if i laid into a fish and guess what !! i landed springs over 40lbs on it more than once and tons more fish over a 10yr span before someone bought it from me.


If i was to go and buy a single hander for salmon i would lean towards one of these companies i could buy locally

Temple Fork
Pieroway
Echo
St. Croix

i dont personally like the Redington rods, my buddy loves his but it feels like a 2x4 to me

now if i was to buy online i would look into but not limited to

Allan fly fishing
Aleka (i see the link on this site alot and have checked it out)

all these are in the mid range (pieroway is a little in the higher side of mid range) or mid to lower end range when it comes to price. the top few all have great components and are put together very well. my dilemma would be choosing !!!

buying online im always a little skeptical of but i have gotten hooks from Allan FF and they were as good as Tiemco hooks in quality at a fraction of the price  ;D i also know that he stands behind his products.

if your on a super tight budget then i would go with a Dragonfly over the crap you can grab at Canadian Tire or Walmart

that is all  :P

 Hater's Gonna hate.  ::)

Sage are best in the business hands down. Id say there are a lot of rods comparable to sage but Sage is No. 1. And the price gap is just as comparable. Majority of guys I've met on the river while spey casting are Zaxis or TCX's.

I invest 4-5 days a week playing on the river. I can justify having the best rod on the market regardless of price. Now that the 8) One 8) is out, your pretty much dominated. When I buy gear I look at the quality as I plan on using my gear hard and want it to last for as long as possible. You can be guaranteed that in 5-6 years from now I'll be picking up the Sage Two rod and selling my Sage One for Half of what I paid for it. At 6 years that's 100$ investment per year.

I'd like to see a list of rods you think are comparable and better then sage for a much lower price and then find an actual review to support your opinion. ;D
 
If the Op is going to be casting on the river he should consider getting a Switch rod before spending his cash. Just saying most of my single handers are just sitting in the corner now or up at the lake.

Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Sandman on September 01, 2012, 08:02:50 AM
I started out fly fishing using the old cheap fiberglass rods from Canadian tire (when I couldn't borrow my Dad's bamboo rods).  When I pickup up my first graphite rod (a 6wt Dragonfly) it felt like a Ferrari.  I could not believe how much nicer it felt to cast after years of heaving the glass, and I definitely extended the length of my cast.  I fished that Dragonfly for years (I still have it in fact), and have landed fresh run 15 pound chum on it like no body's business).  I fish other rods that were comparable (I also have a Fenwick Eagle in a 6wt and a Kufa in an 8 wt), and as far as "Civics" go, they got me there and brought in the fish.  Then my father, God rest his soul, passed away and I inherited his 8 wt Sage Launch and I have not looked at another rod since.  This rod is so much nicer to cast and I swear it extended my cast my 10-15 feet.  Long casts are not everything, but I can tell you it sure is nice when fishing the beaches these last few days, to be able to get that needle-fish pattern out over a 100 feet to where the fish are jumping. Furthermore, when you are not trying to maximize the cast, the ease of laying out the shorter 50-70 foot casts saves you energy over the hundreds of casts you will make that day.  Are Sage rods the best money can buy?  I am not qualified to answer that as I have not tested all the rods out there, but as a long time Dragonfly user and supporter (I still recommend that rod to new fly fishermen), I can honestly tell you that there is definitely a "better" rod out there and it will be worth the extra money when you can afford it.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: HOOK on September 03, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
not a hater, not even slightly

do i think its wrong to just tell people "buy Sage or you will be dissappionted cause you didnt"

YES I do, the fact of the matter is everyone has their name brands they like and ones they dream about having when they can afford it. I fish Sage's for my trout rods and i have cast several of their line-ups right through their spey rods (not the ONE yet though) I have also fished and owned several other brands and enjoyed them all. I get enjoyment out of catching fish, catching those same exact fish on gear that costs 5X more doesnt change the pleasure level.

are you actually trying to say that Sage is top when it comes to spey rods as well ??

from what you said they top even the spey market. what about the other highest end rods like T&T, Burkenheimer, RB Meiser, G Loomis, Scott and so on ?
I have cast mid range rods side by side with mid range rods and while some weights or models feel slightly different there hasnt been one yet where it is such a difference that it blew me away. take RB Meiser rods for example, his rods are cheaper than Sage and a few other high end companies however his rods LOOK way nicer with the awesome cork work and feather inlays that others dont do.......now Pieroway rods does also do nice cork work and feather inlays, they also have these wicked reel inserts.

go to your local shop, literally have them line up several rods from different brands and price points and buy what feels best to you  ;)

Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Carich980 on September 06, 2012, 04:02:49 AM
Im not trying to say, I am in fact saying Total Domination. Sage one Spey.  8)

Go cast one.

Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: HOOK on September 06, 2012, 04:42:18 PM
you seem very stuck to a name brand, branch out a little. you might like it  ;)

some people actually really dislike the fast action of the Zaxis rods and in that regard possibly the ONE series as well. I happen to like medium fast and fast action spey rods but for the price tag of 900+ dollars there is companies that are just as good at 2/3rds that cost or even as low as half.

I fish a Beulah classic right now because i like several things about Beulah and the fact their turn around is 2weeks or less rather than some companies being 6weeks +

If i was going to spend that kind of money on a rod i dont think i would buy Sage anyways.


HOOK - rather spend less on the rod and save the money for bloody gas !!!
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: crazypop on September 08, 2012, 11:30:18 AM
Fish with what you can afford.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: kalex60 on September 11, 2012, 06:13:22 PM
Carich980 which other rods have you fished either than the sages
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: iCemAn on September 11, 2012, 10:23:04 PM
Carich980 which other rods have you fished either than the sages

I can't speak on his behalf, but my Sage One is hands down the best rod I have ever cast. I have owned pretty much a rod from every company and currently own a number of other rod's, Sage and others.

For pure casting enjoyment and accuracy, the One is unreal. For distance, my G Loomis GLX is a canon! I love my Scott 6wt on small rivers for chucking streamers. I have owned a few Sage rods that I haven't liked and therefore sold them, and I have owned a number of other companies that I have loved and hated.

Reason's I like Sage rods in general... Warranty, resale and technology. That being said, I wouldn't say no to another rod because it wasn't a Sage as long as it feels good! I will buy them all!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: Carich980 on September 14, 2012, 10:07:06 AM
I can't speak on his behalf, but my Sage One is hands down the best rod I have ever cast. I have owned pretty much a rod from every company and currently own a number of other rod's, Sage and others.

For pure casting enjoyment and accuracy, the One is unreal. For distance, my G Loomis GLX is a canon! I love my Scott 6wt on small rivers for chucking streamers. I have owned a few Sage rods that I haven't liked and therefore sold them, and I have owned a number of other companies that I have loved and hated.

Reason's I like Sage rods in general... Warranty, resale and technology. That being said, I wouldn't say no to another rod because it wasn't a Sage as long as it feels good! I will buy them all!!!!  :D

X2 excellent post!
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: spoiler on September 19, 2012, 12:37:27 PM
after 45 years of flyfishing I have used the very cheap to the very expensive and everything in between. i would say your best bang for your buck would be a TFO road (temple fork outfitters). it's not a Sage One but it's a very good rod for the price and also has a warranty. I have a full rack of Sages including gear rods and some other top brands. If you are really bent on owning a Sage I would suggest going on Ebay and looking at some used RPL's which can go for a fraction of the cost of todays high end rods and are still very good. Just my two bits.........
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: HOOK on September 19, 2012, 06:51:30 PM
to bad the RPL series of rods feel wicked heavy compared to the rods made now. yes i HAVE cast one along side a couple other newer model Sages however once you get the hang of the rod it sure is a bloody canon !!  ;D

their FLi series was lower-mid range but sure cast butter smooth, wish they hadnt discontinued it.

any of you Sage guys cast the VXP series yet ? i havent had the pleasure but im in the market for a 10' 7wt single hander  ;) 
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: iCemAn on September 19, 2012, 06:55:20 PM
any of you Sage guys cast the VXP series yet ? i havent had the pleasure but im in the market for a 10' 7wt single hander  ;) 

I have a VXP 596-4 and it is one of my favourite casting rods. I fish it with a Rio Grand 5wt and it casts so sweet. Medium action, quite forgiving and very sensitive. It is probably the best bang for the buck rod I own and is normally 1 of my 3 rods I take stillwater fishing. I use it as my 2nd chironomid rod along with my sage one 5100-4.
Title: Re: Cheap vs expensive
Post by: ByteMe on October 01, 2012, 01:41:47 PM
I just bought a 9ft Sage Flight on clearance for $230,reg at $345.They are also clearing out the Sage Vantage for $170.These two rods have been discontinued,but still have the Sage lifetime warranty.Check with your local tackle stores.I fished with a TFO for a long time and the Sage is definately worth the money IMO,a night and day difference between the 2 rods