Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on August 03, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/fatal-virus-found-in-more-b-c-salmon-farms-1.902477
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Thanks Chris for posting..... too bad we have to put up with these disease cesspools. Thank goodness the sockeye smolts aren't migrating past those feedlots at this stage.
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Brown noser one heard from....waiting for TB ;D ;D
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Brown noser one heard from....waiting for TB ;D ;D
Well I'm hurt. I think I'll have a warm lavender scented bubble bath and a glass of pink zinfandel to sooth my bruised feelings. And tissues to wipe my eyes with. :'(
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Brown noser #2 here:
Not going to be the last we here of these dirty deeds done cheap. Gotta get them farmers rounded up and land penned.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Second+salmon+farm+quarantined+after+tests/7042005/story.html#ixzz22cg7Sdob
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http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Second+salmon+farm+quarantined+after+tests/7042005/story.html#ixzz22cg7Sdob
Another science experiment disaster waiting to happen. Let's just get the pens out of the water and do the testing where there is no risk to wild salmon.
Some people object to companies using animals to test their product..... I object to salmon feedlots using our wild salmon to test the viability of their product.
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Another science experiment disaster waiting to happen. Let's just get the pens out of the water and do the testing where there is no risk to wild salmon.
Some people object to companies using animals to test their product..... I object to salmon feedlots using our wild salmon to test the viability of their product.
But you and the rest are the first on the flow to slaughter wilds when they open right???...... ;D ;D
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Thanks Chris for posting..... too bad we have to put up with these disease cesspools. Thank goodness the sockeye smolts aren't migrating past those feedlots at this stage.
Geez what part of getting the virus from wilds dont you understand?
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http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/17876/bc-salmon-farms-provide-ihn-update
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http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/17876/bc-salmon-farms-provide-ihn-update
Maybe one of the pro-feedlot "experts" can explain this statement: "These farm sites are now isolated .........."
How do you "isolate" a feedlot pen that is made of netting and is sitting in the middle of an ocean??
Don't the ocean currents push and pull these ihn viruses through the netting, and as a consequence infect the surrounding ocean??
Do the feedlot employees and equipment get washed down and disinfected whenever they leave the feedlots??
How do they disinfect their own boats that are visiting these sites?
Or does "isolated" just mean that they put some signs up around the feedlots and start online petitions if someone drives their boat nearby? ::) ::)
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Maybe one of the pro-feedlot "experts" can explain this statement: "These farm sites are now isolated .........."
How do you "isolate" a feedlot pen that is made of netting and is sitting in the middle of an ocean??
Don't the ocean currents push and pull these ihn viruses through the netting, and as a consequence infect the surrounding ocean??
Do the feedlot employees and equipment get washed down and disinfected whenever they leave the feedlots??
How do they disinfect their own boats that are visiting these sites?
Or does "isolated" just mean that they put some signs up around the feedlots and start online petitions if someone drives their boat nearby? ::) ::)
IHN is a natural virus of the Pacific Ocean, which can be carried regularly by wild salmon who have a natural resistance to it, studies show. They can carry the virus their whole lives without any negative impacts on their health. The health of Atlantic salmon, however, can be affected by IHN as they have not developed immunity to .
Geez you really are a Morton..... ;D ;D ;D
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Don't the ocean currents push and pull these ihn viruses through the netting, and as a consequence infect the surrounding ocean??
At least you are aware of "WHERE" they come from. ::) ::) ::)
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Looks like the local Salmon are taking matters in their own fins and fighting back.
There's a movie in the making in this story. It's about greedy villains and even a grey haired damsel ;D distressed about the fish farms ability to spread disease. Then the local fish come to their own rescue. :)
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At least you are aware of "WHERE" they come from. ::) ::) ::)
Thanks for noticing.....
I know you are picking up this argument from the pro-feedlot boys. Suggesting that because it's always been there in the wild fish and then implying it's the fault of the wild fish is just a ridiculous argument. If the feedlots weren't there we wouldn't even be talking about the problem..... In the wild it's dealt with under the survival of the fittest law. Sick fish or dead fish quickly get eliminated by something higher in the food chain.
The problem with the feedlots is that they become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and just by the shear concentration have the potential of escalating the problem for the wild fish. I could care less if all of the Atlantics die from it, I care of the effect 100's of contaminated feedlots will have on the wild salmon. And then there is the risk of the virus mutating.... which is a problem that can't even be defined.
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Can you explain cesspool and concentration with a constant ocean current happening, or do you still believe the hippy witch and her so called dead zones.. Like Ive said before probably more wilds killed a year by sporties than any fish farm.... :D :D :D
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Can you explain cesspool and concentration with a constant ocean current happening, or do you still believe the hippy witch and her so called dead zones.. Like Ive said before probably more wilds killed a year by sporties than any fish farm.... :D :D :D
Here's an analogy for you...... Imagine a ruptured oil tanker lying on the ocean floor spewing out barrels of oil day after day..... I would call that a cesspool and the oil leaking out would be a concentration. As far as ocean currents go, the greater the currents the more dangerous the cesspool is.
That's the effect of a diseased feedlot. At least with the oil, it either sinks or it floats, not so with a virus.
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Sort of a bizzare analogy when youre in favor of oil; tankers and pipelines along with you pal Steve....and what about the second part of my statement... oh no wait that one is true..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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....and what about the second part of my statement... oh no wait that one is true..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
...and also irrelevant. All it proves is that if the feedlots weren't there, sporties could kill more!
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Geez what part of getting the virus from wilds dont you understand?
All of it apparently ::) ::) ::)
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http://www.thefishsite.com/diseaseinfo/4/infectious-haematopoietic-necrosis-ihn
They need to read the whole deal not just the part Morton twists to suit her agenda
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Here's an analogy for you...... Imagine a ruptured oil tanker lying on the ocean floor spewing out barrels of oil day after day..... I would call that a cesspool and the oil leaking out would be a concentration. As far as ocean currents go, the greater the currents the more dangerous the cesspool is.
That's the effect of a diseased feedlot. At least with the oil, it either sinks or it floats, not so with a virus.
Are you for real ? There will be NO salmon wild or farmed as the result of an oil spill. Do you have any idea how many Prince William Sound commercial fishermen were wiped out by Exxon Valdez or how many actually committed suicide over it ? Are you aware in spite of court ordered fines Exxon has never paid a dime. And they have NEVER paid a cent to compensate those fishermen. The sound is pretty dead these days. And let's not forget the captain of the Exxon Valdez was a known alcoholic. Pretty flip aren't you ? Bet you'd be the first to cry in this forum if a spill wiped out your sports fishing though. We are not talking refined oil either we are talking bitamen for which there is no known cleanup method once it's in the ocean.
This isn't a subject for sarcasm.
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NVM Annie you cant tell that Morton anything. He would rather risk our wilds to oil which we know will kill wilds be it in the ocean or our prestine head waters with a pipeline leak, I think Always is part of the problem.
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Maybe one of the pro-feedlot "experts" can explain this statement: "These farm sites are now isolated .........."
How do you "isolate" a feedlot pen that is made of netting and is sitting in the middle of an ocean??
Don't the ocean currents push and pull these ihn viruses through the netting, and as a consequence infect the surrounding ocean??
Do the feedlot employees and equipment get washed down and disinfected whenever they leave the feedlots??
How do they disinfect their own boats that are visiting these sites?
Or does "isolated" just mean that they put some signs up around the feedlots and start online petitions if someone drives their boat nearby? ::) ::)
AF The boat hulls are constantly disinfected and and the hatch and equipment is pressure washed with disinfectant every time fish are moved.The hulls and equipment are all disinfected everytime they go to a different site. It's called bio security. I know you think your clever but actually your demonstrating a total lack of knowledge about anything to do with aquaculture and fish farming. Maybe you should visit a farm and learn some facts before you make a fool of yourself making silly claims .
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AF The boat hulls are constantly disinfected and and the hatch and equipment is pressure washed with disinfectant every time fish are moved.
And this is how you would define "isolated"?
I would define what you described as a "cleanup" after the salmon have been moved out of the pens....
It's a lot like closing the barn door after all the chickens are out and running all over the yard.... I can't believe that you would be patting yourself on the back as if it was a job well done. ??? ::)
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Are you for real ? There will be NO salmon wild or farmed as the result of an oil spill. Do you have any idea how many Prince William Sound commercial fishermen were wiped out by Exxon Valdez or how many actually committed suicide over it ? Are you aware in spite of court ordered fines Exxon has never paid a dime. And they have NEVER paid a cent to compensate those fishermen. The sound is pretty dead these days. And let's not forget the captain of the Exxon Valdez was a known alcoholic. Pretty flip aren't you ? Bet you'd be the first to cry in this forum if a spill wiped out your sports fishing though. We are not talking refined oil either we are talking bitamen for which there is no known cleanup method once it's in the ocean.
This isn't a subject for sarcasm.
There may be hope for you Annie.... you do appreciate the seriousness of a feedlot pen spewing out the IHN virus...
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NVM Annie you cant tell that Morton anything. He would rather risk our wilds to oil which we know will kill wilds be it in the ocean or our prestine head waters with a pipeline leak, I think Always is part of the problem.
Definitely has some hypocritical ideas for sure. But hey the heroine's uncle is an oil venture capitalist. He'd be betraying the Broughton witch if he called down oil wouldn't he ??? ;)
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There may be hope for you Annie.... you do appreciate the seriousness of a feedlot pen spewing out the IHN virus...
No use trying to telling a Morton convert anything factual. Whole hatcheries of fish in Alaska have been destroyed due to IHN outbreaks. Get it hatchery fish still in the hatchery ?? If the adults are diseased so are their eggs I expect and lets remember last years hatch can still be present in the river system depending on species and then there's trout etc in the river also harboring IHN naturally. This went unnoticed for years because there were no fish farms for scapegoats. Morton has vilified them now and people like you suck it up.
http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/virus-strikes-salmon-fry-%E2%80%94-hatchery-loses-sockeye-stock-to-ihn/
Note the year of the report 2010..........Perhaps it should occur to you to question how many IHN infected fish Alaska did release from it's hatcheries to inter mingle with our wild stocks at sea ?
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The IHN virus has been discovered recently in farms on both the inside and the outside of the Island. It is obviously broadly distributed this year by an as of yet unidentified mechanism. Atlantic Salmon are the proverbial canaries in the coal mine for this disease though they do not distribute it because it's detection by specific and required farm disease monitoring always results in an immediate and complete cull of all stocks on the farm. The recent infections and consequent culls do, however, make it clear that the virus is present beyond normal prevalence this year and give some idea of the breadth and timing of the distribution mechanism.
Sockeye are known to be carriers of IHN and can be infected by it. When infected, they will shed viral particles along the routes they travel. BC Sockeye migrate on both the inside and outside of the Island to their home redds where they will spawn from their ocean residence period in North Pacific waters where Alaskan salmon also rear along with Japanese and Russian salmon. Herring are also susceptible to the virus and the disease it causes and can spread it.
The virus can be vertically transmitted to the next generation by infected breeding fish in both the hatchery or the wild.
Returns of Sockeye are so low this year that there is likely to be a complete closure to commercial fishing for them in the Fraser this year.
The recent discoveries may be an indication that we have a real problem and one that has absolutely nothing to do with farms.
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Well I'm hurt. I think I'll have a warm lavender scented bubble bath and a glass of pink zinfandel to sooth my bruised feelings. And tissues to wipe my eyes with. :'(
You forgot your fuzzy slippers
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http://www.king5.com/news/Salmon-from-infected-pens-sold-for-compost-and-possibly-food-155532755.html
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http://www.king5.com/news/Salmon-from-infected-pens-sold-for-compost-and-possibly-food-155532755.html
I wonder if the cans will be labeled as "killed due to IHN virus infection"
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Hmmmmm...I wonder how many cans of sockeye Ive eaten have been infected with IHN.. ??? ??? I love the way these twits are clutching at straws.. ;D
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Hmmmmm...I wonder how many cans of sockeye Ive eaten have been infected with IHN.. ??? ??? I love the way these twits are clutching at straws.. ;D
They just don't get IHN exists in wild salmon and did long before fish farms. Anyone who has ever eaten salmon has undoubtedly eaten IHN.
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/b-c-first-nation-taking-fight-against-fish-farms-to-supreme-court-of-canada-1.907784
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Let em fight it , as long as its not on my dime.
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/b-c-first-nation-taking-fight-against-fish-farms-to-supreme-court-of-canada-1.907784
Already thrown out once and will be again no doubt.
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Thanks for noticing.....
I know you are picking up this argument from the pro-feedlot boys. Suggesting that because it's always been there in the wild fish and then implying it's the fault of the wild fish is just a ridiculous argument. If the feedlots weren't there we wouldn't even be talking about the problem..... In the wild it's dealt with under the survival of the fittest law. Sick fish or dead fish quickly get eliminated by something higher in the food chain.
The problem with the feedlots is that they become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and just by the shear concentration have the potential of escalating the problem for the wild fish. I could care less if all of the Atlantics die from it, I care of the effect 100's of contaminated feedlots will have on the wild salmon. And then there is the risk of the virus mutating.... which is a problem that can't even be defined.
Once again, like the Omega-3 or PCB thing, you have no idea what you are talking about, AF. What is “ridiculous” is that you are too busy speculating and not doing enough to educate yourself. IHN has always been in the wild fish for crying out loud. It has been here for centuries. It was here long before fish farms. It is present from Alaska right down the coast to California. Yes, even Alaska has IHN. It is found in fish farms where Atlantic Salmon are clearly the most vulnerable as well as in BC salmon hatcheries inland (even spawning channels). Wild salmon spread IHN to Atlantic Salmon. Research has shown that IHN is primarily a threat to alevins and fry in freshwater – adults are primarily immune to the virus and act as carriers of the virus. When Sockeye enter the saltwater how large are they – roughly? IHN is identified as a high risk virus; but that risk needs to be put into context first and pro fear mongers fail to do that. Instead, of actually learning anything about the virus they seem to prefer to speculate and assume. They did the same with Kudoa. I have already posted this information and the references, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. You don’t have to take my word for it….go ahead and research it yourself.
You then go off and speculate some more by saying that salmon farms become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and undoubtedly have the potential of spreading the IHN virus to wild salmon. This is just another statement made out of ignorance with no factual basis whatsoever. It is silly to even make that statement considering you have no idea what IHN is, its distribution or its pathology in the first place. You don’t even know how farms manage these IHN outbreaks. Instead of doing your usual speculating why do you try another new approach? Try convincing me with some actual evidence that fish farms are breeding grounds for IHN as you think they are and that they are spreading it to the wild salmon. If this “spreading” of IHN by farms is killing wild salmon – show me. Try convincing me with some evidence that it hasn’t always been in wild fish and that they are not spreading IHN to Atlantic Salmon. Start with some actual peer-reviewed studies. Start using your new friend called “logic”.
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Once again, like the Omega-3 or PCB thing, you have no idea what you are talking about, AF. What is “ridiculous” is that you are too busy speculating and not doing enough to educate yourself. IHN has always been in the wild fish for crying out loud. It has been here for centuries. It was here long before fish farms. It is present from Alaska right down the coast to California. Yes, even Alaska has IHN. It is found in fish farms where Atlantic Salmon are clearly the most vulnerable as well as in BC salmon hatcheries inland (even spawning channels). Wild salmon spread IHN to Atlantic Salmon. Research has shown that IHN is primarily a threat to alevins and fry in freshwater – adults are primarily immune to the virus and act as carriers of the virus. When Sockeye enter the saltwater how large are they – roughly? IHN is identified as a high risk virus; but that risk needs to be put into context first and pro fear mongers fail to do that. Instead, of actually learning anything about the virus they seem to prefer to speculate and assume. They did the same with Kudoa. I have already posted this information and the references, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. You don’t have to take my word for it….go ahead and research it yourself.
You then go off and speculate some more by saying that salmon farms become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and undoubtedly have the potential of spreading the IHN virus to wild salmon. This is just another statement made out of ignorance with no factual basis whatsoever. It is silly to even make that statement considering you have no idea what IHN is, its distribution or its pathology in the first place. You don’t even know how farms manage these IHN outbreaks. Instead of doing your usual speculating why do you try another new approach? Try convincing me with some actual evidence that fish farms are breeding grounds for IHN as you think they are and that they are spreading it to the wild salmon. If this “spreading” of IHN by farms is killing wild salmon – show me. Try convincing me with some evidence that it hasn’t always been in wild fish and that they are not spreading IHN to Atlantic Salmon. Start with some actual peer-reviewed studies. Start using your new friend called “logic”.
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Climate+change+threatens+alter+marine+ecosystem/7050645/story.html :( Af can refer to this as a "conspiracy theory" since it actually makes a little sense unlike some of his offerings ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.mainstreamcanada.com/virus-confirmed-company-begins-empty-site
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Already thrown out once and will be again no doubt.
Don't count on it as the Supreme Court of Canada over rules more cases from BC than any other jurisdiction.
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Once again, like the Omega-3 or PCB thing, you have no idea what you are talking about, AF.
Take some time to reread what I posted. The fact is I am quoting "non-feedlot" experts. Perhaps the problem you have with what I posted is that it has not been filtered through the pro-feedlot media experts.
IHN has always been in the wild fish for crying out loud.
There you go again with the "it's the fault of the wild fish" argument. At the risk of repeating myself: Suggesting that because it's always been there in the wild fish and then implying it's the fault of the wild fish is just a ridiculous argument. If the feedlots weren't there we wouldn't even be talking about the problem..... In the wild it's dealt with under the survival of the fittest law. Sick fish or dead fish quickly get eliminated by something higher in the food chain.
The problem with the feedlots is that they become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and just by the shear concentration have the potential of escalating the problem for the wild fish. I could care less if all of the Atlantics die from it, I care of the effect 100's of contaminated feedlots will have on the wild salmon. And then there is the risk of the virus mutating.... which is a problem that can't even be defined.
You then go off and speculate some more by saying that salmon farms become a concentrated cesspool for the virus and undoubtedly have the potential of spreading the IHN virus to wild salmon.
Insert your own adjectives here instead of "cesspool". The fact is you have 1000's of Atlantics milling around in a limited space spewing out this virus and whatever else, which is infecting potentially every living creature swimming by. This is just another consequence of "farming" in an ocean environment. There is no separation from the surrounding environment and no containment of the cesspool.
You are starting to sound like Annie and Absolon. When you don't have an answer, you try to discredit the poster. While it may make you feel good about your own position, it adds no information to the topic.
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http://www.mainstreamcanada.com/virus-confirmed-company-begins-empty-site
"All fish will be removed from the farm and sent to a rendering facility. Strict biosecurity measures will be followed at all stages of depopulation, transportation, offloading, and rendering."
How strict can "biosecurity" measures be when the holes in the pens are big enough for millions of the viruses to get pushed out by the flowing ocean currents.
Another case of Mainstream media spin on the statement, "Look how carefully we closed the barn door after all the chickens already got out" ;D ;D
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AF are you a biologist or in anyway have any experience with biology or how that science works???
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AF are you a biologist or in anyway have any experience with biology or how that science works???
Are you??
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Im not asked you first.
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Still waiting for an answer puppet.
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Still waiting for an answer puppet.
Your posts are a little childish don't you think?
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Your posts are a little childish don't you think?
But you find NB's post ok?
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Your posts are a little childish don't you think?
How is asking some one a simple question childish.....we are all here showing up for a battle of wits yet you and Nova keep showing up unarmed... ;D ;D ;D
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Just a thought here af ... stop using the word feedlots; it is getting a bit over used and stale and who knows, maybe we pro fish farmers wouldn't be so hard on you ;)
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Maybe some how he could associate it with a foie gras farm. Another buzz word to mislead and fear monger the public some more to suit his fancy. Ha ha.
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Just a thought here af ... stop using the word feedlots; it is getting a bit over used and stale and who knows, maybe we pro fish farmers wouldn't be so hard on you ;)
From Wiki: A feedlot or feed yard is a type of animal feeding operation (AFO) which is used in factory farming for finishing livestock, notably beef cattle, but also swine, horses, sheep, turkeys, chickens or ducks, prior to slaughter. Large beef feedlots are called concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) in the United States[1] and intensive livestock operations (ILOs)[2] or confined feeding operations (CFOs) [3] in Canada. They may contain thousands of animals in an array of pens. Most feedlots require some type of governmental permit and must have plans in place to deal with the large amount of waste that is generated.
The only thing different with salmon feedlots is that there is apparently no government regulations in place to deal with the large amount of waste that is generated. That's why I have also referred to them as cesspools. :D
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Fish Farms Become Feedlots of the Sea
By Kenneth R. Weiss
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=69&db=6&C0=1 (http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=69&db=6&C0=1)
Apparently I'm not the only one that recognizes a feedlot when I see one..... :(
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The study is 10 years old. af, we both know aquaculture like other animal husbandry efforts have improved and evolved in the past decade. Also, we both know it's here to stay and will expand. Think ... man has been raising chickens for thousands of years and we still screw up :D
Put your passion to something worthwhile man!
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But you find NB's post ok?
I'm sorry. My posts are so deep and chock full of common sense,Einstein like intelligence with a quick dash of rapier sharp wit, that they far exceed your ability to comprehend. I promise to type s-l-o-w-e-r i-n t-h-e f-u-t-u-r-e. ;) ;D :-*
Lighten up Larry. And always use foam instead of feather in a pillow fight. ::)
And another thing. Address me as NS please. NB is the next province to the west.
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You are starting to sound like Annie and Absolon. When you don't have an answer, you try to discredit the poster. While it may make you feel good about your own position, it adds no information to the topic.
AF, I actually take that as a compliment considering they have more to say on this issue without relying on speculation as you generally do. Discredit the poster? In my opinion, your claims are baseless. I am challenging you to actually back up some of your claims in this thread, but you seem to content to keep generating more unsubstantiated rhetoric. Actually, I do feel good about my position in this thread because it is actually back up by facts. I gave you the facts about IHN, but you just like to turn your head to them (not a big surprise). If you believe that, “Suggesting that because it's always been there in the wild fish and then implying it's the fault of the wild fish is just a ridiculous argument.” then please attempt to refute it with something factual. Please add some information to this if you feel that I am not.
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Geez Stever, don't you want to take a swipe at me too?
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Testing will be taking place this weekend in the Chilliwack area on the Fraser. ;D ;D ;D
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Testing will be taking place this weekend in the Chilliwack area on the Fraser. ;D ;D ;D
By the MOM?
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Testing will be taking place this weekend in the Chilliwack area on the Fraser. ;D ;D ;D
Good to see the testing is continuing.....
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I'm curious ... what is testing? Chris, do you mean sampling will be taking place?
And of course, by who and how?
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Who is sampling? Regardless of who it is if people sampling are not going to give up the actual lab reports than its a huge waist of money. If it was my money I would be pissed. >:( I think that if individuals are going to donate money for sampling they should insist the the lab reports be posted which is not what we are seeing with mortons latest claim about the cutthroats. Maybe its because she got caught in a lie on the ISAe thing.
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Who is sampling? Regardless of who it is if people sampling are not going to give up the actual lab reports than its a huge waist of money. If it was my money I would be pissed. >:( I think that if individuals are going to donate money for sampling they should insist the the lab reports be posted which is not what we are seeing with mortons latest claim about the cutthroats. Maybe its because she got caught in a lie on the ISAe thing.
What so you can ridicule the test reports? I suggest a first approach would be to see the tests the feedlots, DFO and CFIA are supposedly doing. In Morton's case, private money is being used to do the testing, so there is absolutely no responsibility to the public to release the tests. In the case of the other folks that are supposedly testing, they are using public tax dollars or shareholder money.
Until they take the lead and become transparent the natural assumption is that they are hiding something...
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I never ridiculed them. That stuff is over my head. But you seem pretty convinced for a banker :-\
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I never ridiculed them. That stuff is over my head. But you seem pretty convinced for a banker :-\
Thanks, I gave a reply to Dave, pushed post at the same time as you and mine got knocked off. ??? ;D ;D
Will have to repost later as out the door now.
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I'm curious ... what is testing? Chris, do you mean sampling will be taking place?
And of course, by who and how?
I would be there sampling tomorrow too but have to be with the 2 displays at Island 22. To bad you cannot go to Island 22 tomorrow as Alex and the crew may drop by and you and others could personally ask the questions you keep asking.
If we get the fundrasier going in the fall I am sure you all will attend and meet this great lady and once again ask your questions tere. ;D
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If we get the fundraiser going in the fall I am sure you all will attend and meet this great lady and once again ask your questions there. ;D
I think they are probably afraid of her and may be more comfortable criticizing her endeavors from behind their computer screens.... ;D
By the way Chris, I've been meaning to ask you what a "fisih farm" is. ........ I've just been assuming it's a diseased feedlot. :D
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I think they are probably afraid of her and may be more comfortable criticizing her endeavors from behind their computer screens.... ;D
By the way Chris, I've been meaning to ask you what a "fisih farm" is. ........ I've just been assuming it's a diseased feedlot. :D
Of course. ::)
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Brown noser #2 here:
The only one of those fish farm types going to be around criticizing anything after all the fish farms are wiped out, by virus and who knows what will be Dave. God bless him after chowing down on those farmed frankenfish. :) Long after the dirty diseased farmed salmon are plowed into the pristine coast forest. Aqua will be water down the drain. Never to defend the collapse of the cheap farm technique, that will cheap out on vaccinations but gladly pay to plow the salmon back on our land. Cheap values, cheap science, cheap on investment in their own resource/business. Happened before and has a great proability to happen again with disease from these fish farms. At this point I hope that the local virus that affects Atlantic salmon here finish them off.
When you think about the past when they tried to introduce Atlantic salmon here and they never took, maybe it means they never will. :-\
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What so you can ridicule the test reports? I suggest a first approach would be to see the tests the feedlots, DFO and CFIA are supposedly doing. In Morton's case, private money is being used to do the testing, so there is absolutely no responsibility to the public to release the tests. In the case of the other folks that are supposedly testing, they are using public tax dollars or shareholder money.
Until they take the lead and become transparent the natural assumption is that they are hiding something...
Actually the first approach is for Ms Morton to live up to her own standards of transparency. Saying it was "private money" is a cop-out and a poor excuse. If she is going to make conclusions based on those test results and publicize them in the press and on her blog, criticizing the fish farms, then she has a responsibility as a RPBio to be more forthcoming herself. In my opinion, she is not just a regular citizen that can hide her data or results from the labs she uses when she makes these claims. It's funny that Ms Morton is championing the right for the public to know about what data the fish farms have, but seems to be unwilling to trust the public herself. It has actually backfired on Ms Morton because it makes her look she is hiding something. Time for her to show some leadership. Instead, she ran away from the thread she started on the topic on SSBC and never returned to respond to some fair questions. Some leadership on her part. If the latest results (on reoviruses and alphaviruses) support what Ms Morton is claiming then she should have no problem releasing them to the public. Find anything more on IHN, AF?
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In my opinion, she is not just a regular citizen that can hide her data or results from the labs she uses when she makes these claims. It's funny that Ms Morton is championing the right for the public to know about what data the fish farms have, but seems to be unwilling to trust the public herself. It has actually backfired on Ms Morton because it makes her look she is hiding something.
It's always been obvious what your opinion is with regards to Morton. While that matters to you and probably most of your pro-feedlot buddies, it matters nothing to the general public.
You and I can argue forever and it won't change anything about the feedlots staying in the ocean. However when it comes to the public, they will always support the little guy who is attempting to protect the environment. While government and the feedlots are working hard to hide the risks of both farming in ocean pens and eating the feedlot product, Morton is working hard to make the public aware of the risks. Without folks like Morton, corporations would do whatever they wanted..... they have no conscience.
In the end the public alone will decide the fate of the feedlots, by buying the product...... or not.
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It's always been obvious what your opinion is with regards to Morton. While that matters to you and probably most of your pro-feedlot buddies, it matters nothing to the general public.
You and I can argue forever and it won't change anything about the feedlots staying in the ocean. However when it comes to the public, they will always support the little guy who is attempting to protect the environment. While government and the feedlots are working hard to hide the risks of both farming in ocean pens and eating the feedlot product, Morton is working hard to make the public aware of the risks. Without folks like Morton, corporations would do whatever they wanted..... they have no conscience.
In the end the public alone will decide the fate of the feedlots, by buying the product...... or not.
Well….I would think it would be obvious because I never tried to hide it. I agree that when it comes down to it many people do not really care whether Ms Morton releases these lab results or not. They are likely more concerned about whether they are going to make their mortgage payment or passing that slow vehicle on the highway on their way to the lake; however, for those that follow this more closely than others it is important.
I think it depends who the listening audience is. Some people are more actively involved in this issue while others are just indifferent to fisheries in general. Some people might have more of appreciation of the actual science and would like to see the actual data or report themselves while others rather have someone else do the interpretation. Some like to ask questions of those making the conclusions while others rather have someone else do it or have that information delivered to them through a filtered source. If people are concerned about transparency in science then they should try to see this objectively (pro or con) and ask themselves if Ms Morton actions are what you would expect from a professional biologist. If Morton is confident about her conclusions from these lab results then it should be no problem. Morton has constantly criticized government labs as being inferior and claimed that the the non-governmental labs she has endorsed are far superior. If this is indeed the case I am surprised she would not take this opportunity to show the results. However, in my opinion, she knows there is a public relations problem for her if she shows them. This was the case with the Superstore and T&T Supermarket test results where the results clearly did not fit the conclusions. Because of this, I believe the lab she is using might be expressing this concern to her.
The only one to really clear this up and explain the real reason is Ms Morton herself. She had numerous opportunities on the thread she started on SSBC to address these questions about these lab results. Instead, people like Chris and you are left to defend her decision in this matter on internet forums as to why this has not been released. To me, this is wrong and unbecoming of a professional biologist who is supposed to be making the public aware. She should be standing by her results and fielding the questions instead of having someone else doing it for her. It is also quite telling and should be a red flag to those that believe that Ms Morton is being totally forthcoming.
People may not take a great interest in these lab results; however, I believe that many in the general public are growing tired of Ms Morton’s actions also and not following her as closely as before. I do not think it is just one-sided. Ms Morton is hardly in the mainstream media anymore. If people did not follow the blogs on the internet they would likely never know much about what she is doing or finding. A Chihuahua stuck in a storm drain likely gets more attention in the news than Ms Morton does; however, fisheries in general does not seem to be in the minds of the public these days unless you are directly involved in it.
I do agree that the “little guy” is seen in much better light than governments or industry these days (includes Enbridge…lol), but if people look critically at what Ms Morton says and does they will see that even the “little guy” needs to be held accountable….and lead by example if they believe the other side is not.
I realize that governments do not always make the right decisions or see what some members of the general public see; however, Morton has created this myth that governments and fish farms are working hard to hide the risks of ocean pens or the product itself. If you look at what has been provided to the public before (i.e. provincial annual reports…like the one I posted before) and during the Cohen Commission it was very extensive – involving many hours of searching databases, emails, documents, and studies. Perhaps you should make yourself more familiar with the current Federal regulations that apply to the industry before making such a bold statement. If you did, you will find that government employees are not working hard to hide anything. Right now, the only one working hard to hide anything is Ms Morton.
Recently, it seems like some environmental activists do not have to follow this transparency because they should be seen as more trusted than those “evil governments” and “money-hungry industries”. However, the motivation to gain public opinion goes both ways. It is not just government or industry that does it. I believe it is naïve to think that ENGOs and other independent activists are not trying to put their best foot forward in these situations and do their own manipulation. In my opinion, this is a slippery slope for those activists like Ms Morton and will affect her credibility; if not with the public right away it will be with her peers in the scientific community who like to see the published results.
As for the public buying the product…..I believe they will continue buying the product (much of it likely exported), but the long term viability of the industry in BC will likely depend more on economic competitiveness with other countries raising the same product rather than the fear mongering that is currently being used by activists.
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http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/114282/submitter-raises-waste-fears-over-salmon-expansion