Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on July 29, 2012, 12:56:46 PM
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http://youtu.be/e6xoIsa54ck
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Is it just me or is she starting to sound like her mother?
loved the music though ;)
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Yes a complete moron for sure, I lost both my paternal grandparents in ww2, my dads brother was also killed so please dont even think of comparing.
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Holy Hairy Hippie Batman !!!!!!!!! :o, How big was the reefer she smoked before that interview anyway ??????
And to think, they call her a scientist. Nothing more than an idiot gone wild if ya ask me ::)
Funny how she blackens that cloud that's already over her head more and more each time she opens her mouth. :-X
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http://youtu.be/e6xoIsa54ck
Unfortunate when some people disagree with someone on an issue (fish farming in this case) then they bad mouth everything about the person. I see that as immature and down right rude. There are many people that I disagree with on various issues, (ask Chris) yet I could never get to the point of calling them names and belittling them as is being done here.
It would be good to have a discussion about how we disagree, but there really is no need for all the name calling. It brings down not only the level of how people see you, but the level of the forum as well.....
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Sorry AF but for anyone to make the claim she does its completly uncalled for. So I guess your ok with all the lives lost in WW2, just sayin.
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Sorry AF but for anyone to make the claim she does its completly uncalled for. So I guess your ok with all the lives lost in WW2, just sayin.
The last part of your statement is just nonsense and I can't believe you would even post that!
Disagreeing with someone is not the problem, calling people idiots and morons is....
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C'mon af, admit it, this is one of Morton's weakest soundbites. Embarrassing.
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Chumming the waters..... Isn't a bait ban in effect? ;)
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C'mon af, admit it, this is one of Morton's weakest soundbites. Embarrassing.
Seeing as I didn't comment on Morton's video then I have to assume you have missed the point (and think it's ok to call people idiots and morons ???)..... or as Novabonker suggests, you are chumming the waters.
If it's the latter, I'll bite....
I personally know a lot about mosquitoes, as I live in Chilliwack near the Fraser. This year has again been a bad one. When I go to my vehicle in the morning I have to wave away about 10 or 15 mosquitoes that are waiting on the window, hoping for an opportunity to suck my blood. Even when I move quickly to get into the vehicle, 2 or 3 of them still manage to fly in. It drives me nuts because I know that as I'm driving along, at least one of them will sneak up and bite me on the neck, arm or leg and will suck up my blood. It wouldn't be so bad if they just took my blood, but there is also the possibility that the mosquito might have just come from biting a west nile infected crow..... and has now deposited that virus in me. My wife now insists that in order to prevent an accident we need to make sure the vehicle is mosquito free before driving any where. I have been known to focus more on killing an attacking mosquito, than making sure the vehicle stays on the road.... My wife can also tell you that I go nuts when I see a mosquito flying around inside the vehicle and it is obvious by the size of it's gut, that it's already feasted on me without my even being aware of it.
How are corporations like mosquitoes? In every way imaginable...... that's why we have all the environmental regulations and organizations in place to ensure they don't suck the environment dry and deposit their viruses. http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=48d356c1-1 (http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=48d356c1-1)
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AF I guess Im not like others cause I call em as I see em.....not afraid to when its warranted.
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Like I said its ok to compare enviro impacts to being worse than WW2, or did you miss that part?? ???
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The unfortunate conclusion you jumped to, was that she was talking about lost lives.... when what she was referring to was the destruction of property and the environment.
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The unfortunate conclusion you jumped to, was that she was talking about lost lives.... when what she was referring to was the destruction of property and the environment.
OMG....so your basically saying with the destruction of property and enviroment, no lives are involved, good job buddy, and Morton claims another mind..... ;D
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Why are you a part of this discussion anyways, you favor a Enbridge dont you???.... ;D ;D ;D
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Why are you a part of this discussion anyways, you favor a Enbridge dont you???.... ;D ;D ;D
Funny I was just thinking the same thing. ::)
In regards to the name calling, I say "If the shoe fits, wear it". People are slowly but surely seeing her for what she really is, a nuisance with no real credentials. This is just the one of the many "mistakes" she's made, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
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Great recruiting video! They should put that on network tv...lol. Mom would be proud.
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How are corporations like mosquitoes? In every way imaginable...... that's why we have all the environmental regulations and organizations in place to ensure they don't suck the environment dry and deposit their viruses. http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=48d356c1-1 (http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=48d356c1-1)
We had environmental regulations and organizations in place until your pal's Omnibus Bill was passed. Now we have a process where Harper's cabinet (translation: Harper) decides what is good and what is not and science is irrelevant.
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We had environmental regulations and organizations in place until your pal's Omnibus Bill was passed. Now we have a process where Harper's cabinet (translation: Harper) decides what is good and what is not and science is irrelevant.
That's almost as silly a comment as me saying that "we had clean pristine oceans here on the coast until your Norwegian salmon feedlot corporation buddies started planting their pollution generating net cages in our ocean....." ::)
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That's almost as silly a comment as me saying that "we had clean pristine oceans here on the coast until your Norwegian salmon feedlot corporation buddies started planting their pollution generating net cages in our ocean....." ::)
what has that got to do with what Abs said...oh wait hang on....Truth hurts.... ::)
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That's almost as silly a comment as me saying that "we had clean pristine oceans here on the coast until your Norwegian salmon feedlot corporation buddies started planting their pollution generating net cages in our ocean....." ::)
Well, you do say an awful lot of silly crap like that (as Annie would say "getty up horsey") but in reality there is no similarity between the two comments.
I'm sure you're aware of that because even the most ignorant fool could not have missed the provisions in the bill that gutted environmental reviews and limited participation, allow cabinet to override the outcomes of the gutted process that remains, scraps the annual reviews of progress on climate change mitigation and repeals legislation that Harper long ago abrogated, revises the fisheries act to limit protection to fish and habitat while transferring much decision making authority from the process to the Fisheries minister and changes to the Species at Risk Act to reduce protection and again transfer more authority to the Environment minister to override the process. Nor could that fool have missed the muzzling of scientists or the defunding of long term research projects or the defunding and depopulating of the DFO who are responsible for most fisheries research.
Then again, perhaps you did miss it or perhaps you don't understand the implications or perhaps most likely, you are in agreement with the actions.
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Well, you do say an awful lot of silly crap like that (as Annie would say "getty up horsey") but in reality there is no similarity between the two comments.
I'm sure you're aware of that because even the most ignorant fool could not have missed the provisions in the bill that gutted environmental reviews and limited participation, allow cabinet to override the outcomes of the gutted process that remains, scraps the annual reviews of progress on climate change mitigation and repeals legislation that Harper long ago abrogated, revises the fisheries act to limit protection to fish and habitat while transferring much decision making authority from the process to the Fisheries minister and changes to the Species at Risk Act to reduce protection and again transfer more authority to the Environment minister to override the process. Nor could that fool have missed the muzzling of scientists or the defunding of long term research projects or the defunding and depopulating of the DFO who are responsible for most fisheries research.
Then again, perhaps you did miss it or perhaps you don't understand the implications or perhaps most likely, you are in agreement with the actions.
Doesn't take much to get you on a tantrum...... however I was referring to the similarity between you calling Harper my "Pal" and me calling the feedlot corporations your "buddies".
In spite of the fact you agree with dropping those feedlot cages in our oceans and risking the survival of the wild salmon, I in no way believe you had any influence on that happening nor do I hold you personally responsible. I prefer sticking to the discussion as opposed to getting personal. While we disagree on stuff and I am passionate about saving the wild salmon while you are passionate about growing fish in the same water, I see no advantage in calling each other down....
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Ahemmm...Chris are you sorry you posted that link now... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well, you do say an awful lot of silly crap like that (as Annie would say "getty up horsey") but in reality there is no similarity between the two comments.
I'm sure you're aware of that because even the most ignorant fool could not have missed the provisions in the bill that gutted environmental reviews and limited participation, allow cabinet to override the outcomes of the gutted process that remains, scraps the annual reviews of progress on climate change mitigation and repeals legislation that Harper long ago abrogated, revises the fisheries act to limit protection to fish and habitat while transferring much decision making authority from the process to the Fisheries minister and changes to the Species at Risk Act to reduce protection and again transfer more authority to the Environment minister to override the process. Nor could that fool have missed the muzzling of scientists or the defunding of long term research projects or the defunding and depopulating of the DFO who are responsible for most fisheries research.
Then again, perhaps you did miss it or perhaps you don't understand the implications or perhaps most likely, you are in agreement with the actions.
It's frustrating that Morton is putting so much effort into fighting fish farms and making these videos; meanwhile, some real drastic changes are going down in this country which are even a greater threat (IMO).
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I have to believe the only reason Chris posted that link was that he has finally seen the light ;D Really, why else would a supporter show the world and his favourite activist in such a poor light?
Welcome aboard Chris! ;)
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Ahemmm...Chris are you sorry you posted that link now... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Not at all, am working on a possible fund raiser for Alex in the Valley in the Fall, hope you can all attend. ;D ;D ;D
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Well Im sure all 7 of you will have a ball...btw youre not running that inconjuntion with your " lets bring the cup back home to Toronto " shindig are ya.... ;D ;D ;D
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Not at all, am working on a possible fund raiser for Alex in the Valley in the Fall, hope you can all attend. ;D ;D ;D
Pop cans and Maple leaf floats won't get her very far. ;D Lose the "crush" and see the light ol'timer. ;)
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Pop cans and Maple leaf floats won't get her very far. ;D Lose the "crush" and see the light ol'timer. ;)
Glad you guys keep track of my activities. ;D ;D ;D
Love the Leafs and found the first drennan of the year yesterday along with 3 DNE's will have plenty for sale at he FVSS second used tackle sale in November.
Last year sales were brisk, see you there and at the fund raiser. ;D ;D
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We had environmental regulations and organizations in place until your pal's Omnibus Bill was passed. Now we have a process where Harper's cabinet (translation: Harper) decides what is good and what is not and science is irrelevant.
Yeah and now the feds are in charge of fish farms too. " Mr. Fox, you're now in charge of hen-house security". :o :o
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Yeah and now the feds are in charge of fish farms too. " Mr. Fox, you're now in charge of hen-house security". :o :o
You might ask Ms. Morton how that came to be.
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Doesn't take much to get you on a tantrum...... however I was referring to the similarity between you calling Harper my "Pal" and me calling the feedlot corporations your "buddies".
In spite of the fact you agree with dropping those feedlot cages in our oceans and risking the survival of the wild salmon, I in no way believe you had any influence on that happening nor do I hold you personally responsible. I prefer sticking to the discussion as opposed to getting personal. While we disagree on stuff and I am passionate about saving the wild salmon while you are passionate about growing fish in the same water, I see no advantage in calling each other down....
Doing a little rebranding? Forgive me but I'll reserve judgment on the new, improved alwaysfishn.
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Doing a little rebranding? Forgive me but I'll reserve judgment on the new, improved alwaysfishn.
As you may have already noted..... I'm not concerned about your judgement, or your opinion. ::)
Thanks anyway.
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Yeah and now the feds are in charge of fish farms too. " Mr. Fox, you're now in charge of hen-house security". :o :o
You can thank your buddy Morton for that. She is the one who took the government to court to force the DFO to manage aquaculture. Frankly what they need to manage is her being allowed to sample fish. Her sampling techniques are questionable to say the least and I have to agree some of her interviews leave one with the impression she's not quite all there . I find it amusing that someone who regularly changes her hat from whale researcher to high school drop out to bachelor of science to biologist to sea lice researcher to fish farm disease researcher and lord knows what else actually has the poo to slag scientists and researchers with far better credentials than her own. Her insinuation that she finds disease everywhere speaks more to her efforts to read results as she wants to rather than as what they actually showed. And now I'm waiting for one of your funny little jokes because I DO have a sense of humour. ;)
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Is it just me or is she starting to sound like her mother?
loved the music though ;)
She not only sounds like her she looks like her too. Same monotone voice. Scary
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Not at all, am working on a possible fund raiser for Alex in the Valley in the Fall, hope you can all attend. ;D ;D ;D
Wouldn't your fundraising effort be more beneficial if you did it for stream restoration and habitat restoration ? Just sayin.........cause the streams and rivers people have done work on are showing great results. Seems more beneficial to wild salmon than the " I bought a disease/virus at the grocery store " scenario via Morton. Gee more tests done on dead rotting salmon and more claims she finds disease everywhere she looks and again NO confirmation from the very labs she credits with doing her testing. Boring
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Wouldn't your fundraising effort be more beneficial if you did it for stream restoration and habitat restoration ? Just sayin.........cause the streams and rivers people have done work on are showing great results. Seems more beneficial to wild salmon than the " I bought a disease/virus at the grocery store " scenario via Morton. Gee more tests done on dead rotting salmon and more claims she finds disease everywhere she looks and again NO confirmation from the very labs she credits with doing her testing. Boring
If you did half of what Chris did for REAL salmon, that comment would have a little weight. Unfortunately, it smacks of utter ignorance.
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If you did half of what Chris did for REAL salmon, that comment would have a little weight. Unfortunately, it smacks of utter ignorance.
Sorry don't know the man personally. I just think Morton rakes in enough money through the US foundations and her websites. She asks for donations on every website but refuses to disclose what US tax returns do and what the actual US foundations show on their websites. She gets plenty of money.
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Ya. She gets Plenty of money. I do not buy that poor little helpless hippy lady thing one bit!
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Sorry don't know the man personally. I just think Morton rakes in enough money through the US foundations and her websites. She asks for donations on every website but refuses to disclose what US tax returns do and what the actual US foundations show on their websites. She gets plenty of money.
For someone that gets lots of money she certainly lives a minimalistic lifestyle.
There was a discussion here a while ago that disclosed what her foundation pays her and I believe it was about $50,000 a year. As far as suggesting that she is hiding income, that is pretty ridiculous and considering the government doesn't exactly appreciate her campaign, I would guess that the CRA watches her pretty closely.
The fact is this lady is a hero who has sacrificed a lot in order to help ensure the survival of the wild salmon. On the other hand it's easy to understand how people that are standing up for mega corporations would believe that everybody does what they do for money.
There are exceptions, Morton being one of them.
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Actually not Hero should read Zero... ;D ;D ;D
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For someone that gets lots of money she certainly lives a minimalistic lifestyle.
There was a discussion here a while ago that disclosed what her foundation pays her and I believe it was about $50,000 a year. As far as suggesting that she is hiding income, that is pretty ridiculous and considering the government doesn't exactly appreciate her campaign, I would guess that the CRA watches her pretty closely.
The fact is this lady is a hero who has sacrificed a lot in order to help ensure the survival of the wild salmon. On the other hand it's easy to understand how people that are standing up for mega corporations would believe that everybody does what they do for money.
There are exceptions, Morton being one of them.
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how she pays for all the websites, testing , her personal support, the rather expensive aluminum boat she runs around in, actually she uses a couple of boats, her sons college tuition to become she claims a NASA rocket scientist , satellite internet to Echo Bay, gas, travel expenses etc. etc on $50,000.00 a year. Oh yeah as she states in an personal email to me she sells her art work ?? Never seen it in any gallery and her books ?? hardly best sellers. She is however the daughter of an heiress to the Marx Toy Company. She comes from a wealthy family and I doubt she is living that frugally out of sight of the public.
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For someone that gets lots of money she certainly lives a minimalistic lifestyle.
There was a discussion here a while ago that disclosed what her foundation pays her and I believe it was about $50,000 a year. As far as suggesting that she is hiding income, that is pretty ridiculous and considering the government doesn't exactly appreciate her campaign, I would guess that the CRA watches her pretty closely.
The fact is this lady is a hero who has sacrificed a lot in order to help ensure the survival of the wild salmon. On the other hand it's easy to understand how people that are standing up for mega corporations would believe that everybody does what they do for money.
There are exceptions, Morton being one of them.
http://www.fishtruth.net/Connections.htm A list of US so called charitable foundations. You will find Tides here as well and if you search each foundation you will find lists of their grantees. Morton's foundation, David Suzuki, UBC and SFU amongst others. Enjoy
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Thanx Annie should keep em busy for awhile... ;D ;D
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Thanx Annie should keep em busy for awhile... ;D ;D
One can hope huh ? ;) ;) Most of em cannot be bothered to read anything worth reading unfortunately. ::)
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Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how she pays for all the websites, testing , her personal support, the rather expensive aluminum boat she runs around in, actually she uses a couple of boats, her sons college tuition to become she claims a NASA rocket scientist , satellite internet to Echo Bay, gas, travel expenses etc. etc on $50,000.00 a year. Oh yeah as she states in an personal email to me she sells her art work ?? Never seen it in any gallery and her books ?? hardly best sellers. She is however the daughter of an heiress to the Marx Toy Company. She comes from a wealthy family and I doubt she is living that frugally out of sight of the public.
AnnieP, with ramblings like that and nothing to substantiate them you are losing all credibility.... As one of the pro-feedlot boys would say.... "show me the proof".
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http://www.fishtruth.net/Connections.htm A list of US so called charitable foundations. You will find Tides here as well and if you search each foundation you will find lists of their grantees. Morton's foundation, David Suzuki, UBC and SFU amongst others. Enjoy
You would help your credibility if you just posted a link to how much money Morton is personally getting out of this. And counting the boats she operates just shows your lack of understanding of the issue. You need to separate the funds that her foundation gets, from the funds she personally puts into her own bank account.
Morton does not have the deep pockets that the feedlots and government have in order to run their campaigns. She also needs money to do the research she does as apparently no one else is motivated to do it.
As much as you hate to admit it Morton does this for the love of wild salmon, not the money. That puts her up high in my books when it comes to credibility.
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You would help your credibility if you just posted a link to how much money Morton is personally getting out of this. And counting the boats she operates just shows your lack of understanding of the issue. You need to separate the funds that her foundation gets, from the funds she personally puts into her own bank account.
Morton does not have the deep pockets that the feedlots and government have in order to run their campaigns. She also needs money to do the research she does as apparently no one else is motivated to do it.
As much as you hate to admit it Morton does this for the love of wild salmon, not the money. That puts her up high in my books when it comes to credibility.
Pretty funny and somewhat hypocritical. You laughed at the lack of signatures on my petition but neglect the fact I don't have the high profile Morton has, I don't have a Type-pad blog, I don't have websites and I don't have Facebook. I'm not constantly in the media . Double standard with you huh ? By the way if she loves wild salmon so much instead of making it appear diseased and inedible perhaps she should actually do something constructive like some stream restoration work or salmon enhancement projects instead of just talking about how much she cares about wild salmon. Smearing it to the world via internet isn't exactly promoting wild stocks is it ? How are you such an expert on how much money she actually has and you didn't answer my question from my last post either. I expect you'll answer this question with yet another question too.
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AnnieP, with ramblings like that and nothing to substantiate them you are losing all credibility.... As one of the pro-feedlot boys would say.... "show me the proof".
The information is readily available on the internet. Most pro salmon farm people have been aware of who she really is for years. As for someone loosing credibility I'd say Morton does that everytime she speaks and makes her unsubstantiated claims. I have no credibility according to you. Show me proof of what she claims as the truth ? You cannot because the OIE lab in PEI and the one in Norway do not confirm her test results as she claims. In fact quite the contrary.
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AnnieP, with ramblings like that and nothing to substantiate them you are losing all credibility.... As one of the pro-feedlot boys would say.... "show me the proof".
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1998/1012/6208094a_print.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Marx_Hubbard#Personal_life
http://www.marxmuseum.com/ourmailbag/thefactory.html
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Marx_Louis_30781930.aspx
Just a few of the sites with info about Morton's very wealthy family
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http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1998/1012/6208094a_print.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Marx_Hubbard#Personal_life
http://www.marxmuseum.com/ourmailbag/thefactory.html
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Marx_Louis_30781930.aspx
Just a few of the sites with info about Morton's very wealthy family
I didn't realize that it was so terrible for someone to have a few wealthy relatives....and oppose feedlots. You have to do better than that AnnieP. ::)
I understand that the Mainstream owners are personally very wealthy, why doesn't that make them bad people as well? Is everyone who has rich relatives a bad person?
You don't have to answer those questions as we both know how ridiculous they are. They are as insane as suggesting that because Morton has rich relatives, that her quest to save wild salmon is somehow a sham.
You are sounding like a very bitter lady.... Stick to the discussion and maybe we can continue the debate.
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Sorry don't know the man personally. I just think Morton rakes in enough money through the US foundations and her websites. She asks for donations on every website but refuses to disclose what US tax returns do and what the actual US foundations show on their websites. She gets plenty of money.
Than what gives you the right to insult this gentleman's integrity?
And what have you done for wild salmon other than sanctimonious slagging of people that work toward preservation of the wild runs like Chris?
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Than what gives you the right to insult this gentleman's integrity?
And what have you done for wild salmon other than sanctimonious slagging of people that work toward preservation of the wild runs like Chris?
How did I slag the gentleman's integrity ? I ask if it wasn't more beneficial for wild salmon to raise the money for enhancement and stream restoration rather than raise it for some anti farm activist to slag fish farming. Slagging fish farms does nothing to help wild stocks. She gets plenty of money from Tides and other foundations to do her dirty work. Remember I was once a commercial salmon fisherman. As for a sanctimonious slagging of Chris I'm sorry I don't follow that asking someone if raising money isn't more beneficial put towards stream enhancement etc rather than giving it to some activist to use to post more false disease reports is slagging the gentleman in any way. You do exaggerate.. According to Morton wild salmon are not fit to eat. If telling the world via the internet that BC salmon is unfit for human consumption because they carry a multitude of endemic diseases is helping wild stocks I am amazed.
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I didn't realize that it was so terrible for someone to have a few wealthy relatives....and oppose feedlots. You have to do better than that AnnieP. ::)
I understand that the Mainstream owners are personally very wealthy, why doesn't that make them bad people as well? Is everyone who has rich relatives a bad person?
You don't have to answer those questions as we both know how ridiculous they are. They are as insane as suggesting that because Morton has rich relatives, that her quest to save wild salmon is somehow a sham.
You are sounding like a very bitter lady.... Stick to the discussion and maybe we can continue the debate
You are the one who ask for proof she came from a wealthy family. I gave it to you.
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I didn't realize that it was so terrible for someone to have a few wealthy relatives....and oppose feedlots. You have to do better than that AnnieP. ::)
I understand that the Mainstream owners are personally very wealthy, why doesn't that make them bad people as well? Is everyone who has rich relatives a bad person?
You don't have to answer those questions as we both know how ridiculous they are. They are as insane as suggesting that because Morton has rich relatives, that her quest to save wild salmon is somehow a sham.
You are sounding like a very bitter lady.... Stick to the discussion and maybe we can continue the debate.
RT @FairQuestions: Quite a drop: 2011 revenue of Alex Morton's charity ( was $38,054, down from $183,422 ('09) #salmon
Quite a drop: 2011 revenue of Alex Morton's charity ( was $38,054, down from $183,422 ('09) #salmon
It appears your heroine is loosing financial support- Down $145, 368.00 in two years. Could it be people are getting wise to how financially lucrative being an activist is ?
Taken from http://search-logs.com/d/www.cra-arc.gc.ca
As for me being bitter I think not. Salmon farms are here to stay in spite of activist rhetoric. ;D ;D ;D I'm sure you know who Vivian Krause is. Her information comes straight from tax returns. And the revenue shown is just for her so called charity. Funny I thought charity was giving money to orphans and the handicapped sorta thing.
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You are the one who ask for proof she came from a wealthy family. I gave it to you.
You misunderstood my question, however I accept responsibility for that as I should have been more specific.
Show me some proof as to how much money Morton takes home. In fact show me proof of how much money her charitable foundation earns.
Once you get some facts I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing them. Then you will either stop making your ridiculous claims of how wealthy she is becoming, or you'll have some backup for your claims. I have already suggested that she personally earns less than $50,000 per year which I determined after looking at her charities financial statements. From all indications she is not employed by anyone so she isn't making a salary.
To help you out, here is a good place to start... http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html)
If you think her rich relatives are supporting her, they would likely be doing it through a charity.... http://www.charitynavigator.org/ (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)
I would provide you with the research myself, however I don't really have the time nor the interest to do so, as I don't see anything about her lifestyle that would suggest that she is getting rich as a result of her work. Unlike you, I believe Morton is one of those rare individuals that is totally committed to her cause and has no aspirations for riches.
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RT @FairQuestions: Quite a drop: 2011 revenue of Alex Morton's charity ( was $38,054, down from $183,422 ('09) #salmon
Quite a drop: 2011 revenue of Alex Morton's charity ( was $38,054, down from $183,422 ('09) #salmon
It appears your heroine is loosing financial support- Down $145, 368.00 in two years. Could it be people are getting wise to how financially lucrative being an activist is ?
Taken from http://search-logs.com/d/www.cra-arc.gc.ca
As for me being bitter I think not. Salmon farms are here to stay in spite of activist rhetoric. ;D ;D ;D I'm sure you know who Vivian Krause is. Her information comes straight from tax returns. And the revenue shown is just for her so called charity. Funny I thought charity was giving money to orphans and the handicapped sorta thing.
Wow, It's amazing how the simple act of looking up some actual numbers can change a person's tune... Congratulation on the first step towards backing up some of your claims with some actual facts. :D
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You misunderstood my question, however I accept responsibility for that as I should have been more specific.
Show me some proof as to how much money Morton takes home. In fact show me proof of how much money her charitable foundation earns.
Once you get some facts I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing them. Then you will either stop making your ridiculous claims of how wealthy she is becoming, or you'll have some backup for your claims. I have already suggested that she personally earns less than $50,000 per year which I determined after looking at her charities financial statements. From all indications she is not employed by anyone so she isn't making a salary.
To help you out, here is a good place to start... http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html)
If you think her rich relatives are supporting her, they would likely be doing it through a charity.... http://www.charitynavigator.org/ (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)
I would provide you with the research myself, however I don't really have the time nor the interest to do so, as I don't see anything about her lifestyle that would suggest that she is getting rich as a result of her work. Unlike you, I believe Morton is one of those rare individuals that is totally committed to her cause and has no aspirations for riches.
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/alexandra-morton-non-profit-revenue-2000-2010.html
Unlike you I think the woman is a parasite and has never held a legitimate job in the years she has lived in Canada. She draws her income from pleas for donations and US foundations and Tides Canada. Rare individual indeed. Why don't you show us some proof of your claims ? By the way Charity claims by foundations and NGOs are now being scrutinized by the federal government for abuse thanks to Senator Nicole Eaton and rightfully so as well as President Obama recently embarked on a similar investigation of charitable status abuse in the USA as well.
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You misunderstood my question, however I accept responsibility for that as I should have been more specific.
Show me some proof as to how much money Morton takes home. In fact show me proof of how much money her charitable foundation earns.
Once you get some facts I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing them. Then you will either stop making your ridiculous claims of how wealthy she is becoming, or you'll have some backup for your claims. I have already suggested that she personally earns less than $50,000 per year which I determined after looking at her charities financial statements. From all indications she is not employed by anyone so she isn't making a salary.
To help you out, here is a good place to start... http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/lstngs/menu-eng.html)
If you think her rich relatives are supporting her, they would likely be doing it through a charity.... http://www.charitynavigator.org/ (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)
I would provide you with the research myself, however I don't really have the time nor the interest to do so, as I don't see anything about her lifestyle that would suggest that she is getting rich as a result of her work. Unlike you, I believe Morton is one of those rare individuals that is totally committed to her cause and has no aspirations for riches.
7 Questions To Ask Charities Before Donating
Tips For How To Investigate A Charity's Results taken from your posted URL............http://www.charitynavigator.org/....................... Hmmmmmm she doesn't seem to live up to any of these 7 questions. And it is an American site so irrelevant to discussion. As for the other it gives no pertinent information whatsoever so your point is what ?
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/alexandra-morton-non-profit-revenue-2000-2010.html
Unlike you I think the woman is a parasite and has never held a legitimate job in the years she has lived in Canada. She draws her income from pleas for donations and US foundations and Tides Canada. Rare individual indeed. Why don't you show us some proof of your claims ? By the way Charity claims by foundations and NGOs are now being scrutinized by the federal government for abuse thanks to Senator Nicole Eaton and rightfully so as well as President Obama recently embarked on a similar investigation of charitable status abuse in the USA as well.
Just so you understand the numbers from your link....... Where did Alexandra Morton's NonProfit get $822,210 (2000-2010)? ..... That works out to $82,210 per year over that 10 year period which I think we can agree is not a lot to run boats, research and to support herself....
As far as your parasite reference, I'd like to suggest the feedlots are parasites on our oceans, taking from them, putting nothing back other than pollution and diseases, while filling the pockets of Norwegian shareholders with profits....
That my friend is a parasite! ........not a lady who could likely have won herself an NDP seat with a salary plus benefits in excess of $100,000 a year, or at the very least could have a cushy government job working as a biologist knowing that after she put in her 30 years she would have a very nice pension.
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Just so you understand the numbers from your link....... Where did Alexandra Morton's NonProfit get $822,210 (2000-2010)? ..... That works out to $82,210 per year over that 10 year period which I think we can agree is not a lot to run boats, research and to support herself....
As far as your parasite reference, I'd like to suggest the feedlots are parasites on our oceans, taking from them, putting nothing back other than pollution and diseases, while filling the pockets of Norwegian shareholders with profits....
That my friend is a parasite! ........not a lady who could likely have won herself an NDP seat with a salary plus benefits in excess of $100,000 a year, or at the very least could have a cushy government job working as a biologist knowing that after she put in her 30 years she would have a very nice pension.
Actually AF I don't believe American citizens are eligible to run for office in Canada. As for NDP you can have em As for my link like I said that is only the revenue from one so called "charity"
How much money does she collect on Salmon are Sacred, her Type-pad blog and the website for charitable donations ? Amongst others. By the way to be eligible for employment by the government as a biologist I think she'd actually have to prove she has a degree. As for shareholders gee whose pocket did you put money in last time you shopped at Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Wendys. McDonalds. Burger King, etc. ? American shareholders wasn't it ?
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Just so you understand the numbers from your link....... Where did Alexandra Morton's NonProfit get $822,210 (2000-2010)? ..... That works out to $82,210 per year over that 10 year period which I think we can agree is not a lot to run boats, research and to support herself....
As far as your parasite reference, I'd like to suggest the feedlots are parasites on our oceans, taking from them, putting nothing back other than pollution and diseases, while filling the pockets of Norwegian shareholders with profits....
That my friend is a parasite! ........not a lady who could likely have won herself an NDP seat with a salary plus benefits in excess of $100,000 a year, or at the very least could have a cushy government job working as a biologist knowing that after she put in her 30 years she would have a very nice pension.
[/quote
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/225-tides-foundation--tides-center
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Actually AF I don't believe American citizens are eligible to run for office in Canada. As for NDP you can have em As for my link like I said that is only the revenue from one so called "charity"
How much money does she collect on Salmon are Sacred, her Type-pad blog and the website for charitable donations ? Amongst others. By the way to be eligible for employment by the government as a biologist I think she'd actually have to prove she has a degree. As for shareholders gee whose pocket did you put money in last time you shopped at Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Wendys. McDonalds. Burger King, etc. ? American shareholders wasn't it ?
I guess you need to do a little more research before posting some of the stuff you do Annie. Morton has dual citizenship, US and Canadian and as such could run for office in Canada.
As far as her income, she has only one Charity.... A blog is not a charity, nor is a website a charity.
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I guess you need to do a little more research before posting some of the stuff you do Annie. Morton has dual citizenship, US and Canadian and as such could run for office in Canada.
As far as her income, she has only one Charity.... A blog is not a charity, nor is a website a charity.
I am well aware that Morton has duel citizenship. She has had since 1997. You are obviously not aware that when a US citizen runs for office in Canada the US usually pulls their US citizenship. Somehow I doubt she would want that since she retained it in the first place. When I ask her why her response by email to me was that she wanted to be able to go home if she should get cancer or some other disease requiring treatment. Seems your not as knowledgeable as you think AF. As far as Canadians voting for an American I doubt she would get in. As for the rest of your comment I didn't say her blog, FB etc. were charities. However she does ask for donations on every one of them. Perhaps it is you who needs to do more research. As far as charities go it appears Morton herself personally is quite a "charity".
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How are corporations like mosquitoes? In every way imaginable...... that's why we have all the environmental regulations and organizations in place to ensure they don't suck the environment dry and deposit their viruses.
Gee Af thought you didn't believe that there were regulations in place for aquaculture yet you make this quote ?? ??? ??? ???
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That my friend is a parasite! ........not a lady who could likely have won herself an NDP seat with a salary plus benefits in excess of $100,000 a year, or at the very least could have a cushy government job working as a biologist knowing that after she put in her 30 years she would have a very nice pension.
Considering the work she has done so far I don't see how she would get a biologist job anywhere else (private or government). She best stay put and continue being an activist. She does better work in front of a camera. Her peers who actually have experience in fisheries biology, who put in the long, hard hours to gather data and produce defensible results deserve those positions.
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Shuswap Steve sidesteps question.... (with his bunkie, aquapaloosa) Do you folks make any or all of your income from farming fish? Simple question from the curious.???
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I believe I am the only farmer here. Not sidestepping... it has been mentioned here in FWR many times in the past and everyone here is aware of it except you NB. Sorry for the delay in keeping you up to date in the discussion. Unfortunately it is repeat information and has been discussed multiple times.
NB, What job do you have that deals with salmon?
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Shuswap Steve sidesteps question.... (with his bunkie, aquapaloosa) Do you folks make any or all of your income from farming fish? Simple question from the curious.???
There are lots of people who have no problem with fish farms. You don't have to be an employee to be a supporter. I might ask do Morton or any of her supporters get money from US foundations who work on behalf of Alaska commercial salmon fishermen who think fish farms are taking their market. Farmed and Dangerous was their first campaign and first major failure.
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yawn
The manipulator offers you a number of choices, but the choices all lead to the same conclusion.
The same idea or phrase is frequently repeated to make sure it sticks in your brain.
Intense intelligence-dampening is performed by providing you with constant short snippets of information on various subjects. This trains you to have a short memory, makes the amount of information feel overwhelming, and the answers provided by the manipulator to be highly desired due to how overwhelmed you feel.
Emotional manipulation is used to put you in a heightened state, as this makes it harder for you to employ logic. Inducing fear and anger are among the most popular manipulated emotions.
on that las note:
#their first campaign and first major failure
#everyone here is aware of it except you NB
#That my friend is a parasite!
etc.
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I believe I am the only farmer here. Not sidestepping... it has been mentioned here in FWR many times in the past and everyone here is aware of it except you NB. Sorry for the delay in keeping you up to date in the discussion. Unfortunately it is repeat information and has been discussed multiple times.
NB, What job do you have that deals with salmon?
Sorry Swami, I lost any hope of ever getting into the fishing business as I'm from the east coast. Hopefully, you will forgive my ignorance about your employment as I don't have time to read every post and you haven't forwarded a resume to me. A thousand pardons, kind Sir.
BUT
My grandfather used to run a quite successful processing plant (now shuttered) , I've witnessed the destruction of prime lobstering areas due to poor siting in Nova Scotia, and learned from the stupidity exercised by those in authority that the gubmint doesn't have the overall industries best practices and interests at heart, nor do industries with a very checkered past tend to man up and promote truth over fiction. Instead, they just donate a gazilion dollars to curry favour from the reining monarchs. I don't want to see the same thing happen here in my adopted home.
Does that clear up those muddied waters for you, oh Great Kahuna? ;)
PS - The question wasn't if they WORKED in the industry, it was whether the derived any or all of their income from "farming".
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yawn
The manipulator offers you a number of choices, but the choices all lead to the same conclusion.
The same idea or phrase is frequently repeated to make sure it sticks in your brain.
Intense intelligence-dampening is performed by providing you with constant short snippets of information on various subjects. This trains you to have a short memory, makes the amount of information feel overwhelming, and the answers provided by the manipulator to be highly desired due to how overwhelmed you feel.
Emotional manipulation is used to put you in a heightened state, as this makes it harder for you to employ logic. Inducing fear and anger are among the most popular manipulated emotions.
on that las note:
#their first campaign and first major failure
#everyone here is aware of it except you NB
#That my friend is a parasite!
etc.
Seems to me you just described Alexandra Morton perfectly.
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Seems to me you just described Alexandra Morton perfectly.
And AF
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pshah
you guys don't even get I'm talking about bibsters with dirty fish smelling breath
kinda like having a handle;
dirtyfishbreath
makes troutbreath look easier to type and understand :)
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Shuswap Steve sidesteps question.... (with his bunkie, aquapaloosa) Do you folks make any or all of your income from farming fish? Simple question from the curious.???
Considering you have contributed little if any information to these discussions I am surprised that you are interested in knowing what other people are thinking or what they do for a living. Perhaps if you took these issues seriously, stopped the grandstanding, and quit trying to be such a comedian (actually a pretty bad comedian) people like me might take you seriously. Your ignorance of Kintama and your boneheaded response pretty much sunk my opinion of you. At the moment you are more like the background noise that I experience from the sonar I operate....however, with I little fine tuning it becomes quite irrelevant after awhile.
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Considering you have contributed little if any information to these discussions I am surprised that you are interested in knowing what other people are thinking or what they do for a living. Perhaps if you took these issues seriously, stopped the grandstanding, and quit trying to be such a comedian (actually a pretty bad comedian) people like me might take you seriously. Your ignorance of Kintama and your boneheaded response pretty much sunk my opinion of you. At the moment you are more like the background noise that I experience from the sonar I operate....however, with I little fine tuning it becomes quite irrelevant after awhile.
Pay no attention Novabonker....
......another case of trying to discredit a poster that doesn't agree with the pro feedlot agenda. Border line offensive post as well.... ::)
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Pay no attention Novabonker....
......another case of trying to discredit a poster that doesn't agree with the pro feedlot agenda. Border line offensive post as well.... ::)
I would pay attention. The offensive post is anything from AF.
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Considering you have contributed little if any information to these discussions I am surprised that you are interested in knowing what other people are thinking or what they do for a living. Perhaps if you took these issues seriously, stopped the grandstanding, and quit trying to be such a comedian (actually a pretty bad comedian) people like me might take you seriously. Your ignorance of Kintama and your boneheaded response pretty much sunk my opinion of you. At the moment you are more like the background noise that I experience from the sonar I operate....however, with I little fine tuning it becomes quite irrelevant after awhile.
First off, your personal opinion of me means diddly squat.Pffffft! Maybe little buddy if you read my post below about my family having been in the commercial fishing business since they arrived in Nova Scotia in the mid 1700's, you might have some understanding of why I care about wild fish stocks. All I ever see from you and your posse is condescending commentary spewed towards any and all that dare to disagree with your self important commentary, backed up with self serving industry studies - usually put out by the feedlot companies. After the outright lies about escapes, all the "help" from Van Dongen and the Liberals, the "fish farmers" do nothing to instill confidence that they have my or the province's best interests at heart. Instead, I see a replay of what happened in the 60's and 70's in NS, when a Norwegian company kept inferring that whaling was a great business, sustainable and a new pony for everyone! We all know where that went. Anyone with the ability to critically think sees more holes than a screen door in the sputum delivered by the feedlot business, but carry on. You give more comic relief than I can ever hope to because if I didn't laugh at your diatribes, I'd be crying.
Secondly, you seem upset that I don't kowtow to Dave and his company. A thousand pardons, but has he done the same for my business? After all, I've designed, built and operated equipment related to my niche that reduces pollution by up to 80%. PUT MY NAME UP IN LIGHTS!. I play rugby with a group of guys that are anything from lawyers, dentists, geologists, even an ex premier. I don't suck up to them or anybody, so I don't see myself bowing when anyone "enters the room". I also didn't slap the moniker on his company, and surely he must have researched the name before he took it.
Now run along and go finish your paper route. ( and you still didn't answer the question about deriving income from the feedlots. Your new name is Sidestep Steve ;))
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/the_most_condescending_man_in_the_world_by_inf3ct3d_d3m0n-d540qb8.png)
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Maybe this will help. Although it is clear that some here are not looking at other considerations.
Why is salmon farming so scary?
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/08/07/why-is-salmon-farming-so-scary/ (http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/08/07/why-is-salmon-farming-so-scary/)
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First off, your personal opinion of me means diddly squat.Pffffft! Maybe little buddy if you read my post below about my family having been in the commercial fishing business since they arrived in Nova Scotia in the mid 1700's, you might have some understanding of why I care about wild fish stocks. All I ever see from you and your posse is condescending commentary spewed towards any and all that dare to disagree with your self important commentary, backed up with self serving industry studies - usually put out by the feedlot companies. After the outright lies about escapes, all the "help" from Van Dongen and the Liberals, the "fish farmers" do nothing to instill confidence that they have my or the province's best interests at heart. Instead, I see a replay of what happened in the 60's and 70's in NS, when a Norwegian company kept inferring that whaling was a great business, sustainable and a new pony for everyone! We all know where that went. Anyone with the ability to critically think sees more holes than a screen door in the sputum delivered by the feedlot business, but carry on. You give more comic relief than I can ever hope to because if I didn't laugh at your diatribes, I'd be crying.
Secondly, you seem upset that I don't kowtow to Dave and his company. A thousand pardons, but has he done the same for my business? After all, I've designed, built and operated equipment related to my niche that reduces pollution by up to 80%. PUT MY NAME UP IN LIGHTS!. I play rugby with a group of guys that are anything from lawyers, dentists, geologists, even an ex premier. I don't suck up to them or anybody, so I don't see myself bowing when anyone "enters the room". I also didn't slap the moniker on his company, and surely he must have researched the name before he took it.
Now run along and go finish your paper route. ( and you still didn't answer the question about deriving income from the feedlots. Your new name is Sidestep Steve ;))
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/the_most_condescending_man_in_the_world_by_inf3ct3d_d3m0n-d540qb8.png)
What sort of pollution stuff do you build Novabonker ? What sort of industries are using it and how does it work ? Legitimate question as I'm interested to know what you've got that is able to reduce pollution by 80 % ? Are you able to market it successfully ? 8)
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Packing up for holidays right now Annie, but be prepared for an extensive report on CFM, laminar flow,air velocity, water lift,vacuum relief, static pressure, flow rates, impact and all kinds of fun stuff being done with electricity and not fuel power, if I get off the lake long enough to post it. ;) Were you also interested in learning about the flood extraction tools I'm currently working on? It holds both US and Canadian patents and should hit the market in 6 months to a year. BTW - I didn't invent any or all of the technology, I just used my 30 plus years to refine, harness and fine tune it.
See Sidestep Steve? Annie asks a question without the "little stupid people" tone and gets a respectful answer, with more info to come.
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Packing up for holidays right now Annie, but be prepared for an extensive report on CFM, laminar flow,air velocity, water lift,vacuum relief, static pressure, flow rates, impact and all kinds of fun stuff being done with electricity and not fuel power, if I get off the lake long enough to post it. ;) Were you also interested in learning about the flood extraction tools I'm currently working on? It holds both US and Canadian patents and should hit the market in 6 months to a year. BTW - I didn't invent any or all of the technology, I just used my 30 plus years to refine, harness and fine tune it.
See Sidestep Steve? Annie asks a question without the "little stupid people" tone and gets a respectful answer, with more info to come.
Sure It sounds really interesting. We both know I may not understand a lot of it but I am always curious as to what people do for a living etc. Be a nice change from the rhetoric too LOL
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For people that want results of Alex's work check at the bottom of this.
Sampling Salmon through the Mighty Fraser by Ann.
It is time of the salmon again. The first nations people know this as they follow in the footsteps of their elders down ancient paths to the river to set up seasonal camps and once again collect and prepare that which has become them. Salmon. We were invited to come and sample fish for testing.
BoBo has been working with fish here for over 30 years and led us down to Bridge River. Drying racks line each side of the river here and we were glad of his ability to take us down the short trail. For fog loving Islanders the heat was almost staggering. Councilor Darrel Bob points to his camp on the other side of the river and the "fish boys" have knowing smiles on their faces as they talk about the km plus hike straight up the mountain with a back pack of fish. This is the first time Darrel has been on this side of the river. It is the respect for the health of the fish that has everyone working together to figure this out.
Through science we have learned that some first nations bones were made up of 90% salmon and through science today we are tracking European viruses. People want to know why many of these salmon are just disappearing or dying on the shores of their natal grounds without fulfilling a legacy to the next seven generations.
There is evidence to show that European Viruses potentially from salmon farm feedlots throughout the coast of British Columbia may be spreading their pathogens to wild stocks and many first nations we have met no longer have faith in DFO so they are calling to us.
We travelled to Boston Bar and Lillooet and were guided to traditional fishing spots with our cooler full of ice and sampling gear. It was hot and sweaty and beautiful. It was an honor and a privilege. It's hard to describe the connection that these people have to their land and even though I think I can feel that connection I can only imagine what it means to have thousands of ancestors before me hand down their stories and their ways of living of the land. First Nations that have survived European disease and colonization and had an opportunity to learn from their elders can tell an early Stuart fish by it's shape and minor details and then choose to leave them to swim further north and feed their hungry brothers and sisters.
We are testing fish above and below Hell's Gate, looking for a heart virus specifically and testing for other viruses. When this study is complete we will publish results on the website www.deptwildsalmon.org after sharing them with the chiefs and fishermen the fish belonged to.
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Dave and all his
pro-feedlot pro-salmon farm buddies must be thrilled to hear that Morton is going to publish her test results. I'm not sure what they will have left to complain about now.
Now if we could only get them to use their influence to get the feedlots to publish their disease records. We know they are producing viruses and sea lice, we just don't know how much of them they are producing.
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We don't want to see Morton's results.................................
We want to see the lab's results.
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We don't want to see Morton's results.................................
We want to see the lab's results.
How about we trade you lab results for feedlot disease records?
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We are testing fish above and below Hell's Gate, looking for a heart virus specifically and testing for other viruses. When this study is complete we will publish results on the website www.deptwildsalmon.org after sharing them with the chiefs and fishermen the fish belonged to.
Hey Chris,
Thanks for sending the website. That’s great that the “Dept. of Wild Salmon” is going to publish the results of this recent study, but I am disappointed that I still cannot find the recent lab results that were requested almost 2 months ago now. Secondly, while browsing the site, I was interested to know if the "Dept. of Wild Salmon" sampled Sockeye Salmon carcasses from the Harrison. I only see Coho, Chinook and Chum spawners mentioned. It seems strange to me that with a river full of thousands of Sockeye carcasses (and with so much attention directed towards Fraser Sockeye) that there is not even a mention of them in their results - either positive or negative for any virus. Lastly, when I look at the literature about PRV on their website I do not see any of the local literature, namely this study:
Saksida, S.M., G.D. Marty, S. St-Hilaire, S.R.M. Jones, H.A. Manchester, C.L. Diamond, and J. Bidulka. 2012. Parasites and hepatic lesions among pink salmon, Oncorhynchus gorbuscha (Walbaum), during early seawater residence. J. Fish Dis. 35:137-151.
Seems to me that this site needs a little more work to make it more informative.
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Now if we could only get them to use their influence to get the feedlots to publish their disease records. We know they are producing viruses and sea lice, we just don't know how much of them they are producing.
During the Cohen Commission, the commission council requested disease records from the BC industry. Data going back to 2005 for 21 farms was initially requested. Further information was requested, but a ruling on the submission of paper copies was made. Check here for the rulings by Judge Cohen:
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/Rulings.php
As for the rest of the publication about fish farming in BC, the province produced annual reports and put them on the following website for the public:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/
As well as more information here for the public:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/aqua_report/index.htm
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/TR/Project5A-ExecutiveSummary.pdf
Here is one of the final submissions from the Province of BC regarding the recent ISAV reports:
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalSubmissions/InitialISASubmissions/02-InitialISASubmission-ProvinceOfBritishColumbia.pdf
Finally, if you actually took the time to actually read the website you appear to align with you would have found the farm audit data which was released as PUBLIC evidence during the Cohen Commission, submitted by the BC Salmon Farmers Association:
http://deptwildsalmon.org/2012/03/08/farm-audit-data/
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During the Cohen Commission, the commission council requested disease records from the BC industry. Data going back to 2005 for 21 farms was initially requested. Further information was requested, but a ruling on the submission of paper copies was made. Check here for the rulings by Judge Cohen:
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/Rulings.php
As for the rest of the publication about fish farming in BC, the province produced annual reports and put them on the following website for the public:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/
As well as more information here for the public:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/aqua_report/index.htm
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/TR/Project5A-ExecutiveSummary.pdf
Here is one of the final submissions from the Province of BC regarding the recent ISAV reports:
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalSubmissions/InitialISASubmissions/02-InitialISASubmission-ProvinceOfBritishColumbia.pdf
Finally, if you actually took the time to actually read the website you appear to align with you would have found the farm audit data which was released as PUBLIC evidence during the Cohen Commission, submitted by the BC Salmon Farmers Association:
http://deptwildsalmon.org/2012/03/08/farm-audit-data/
I realize they coughed up a limited number of the records under court order..... That in itself revealed some of the disease outbreaks they had been hiding.
Today supposedly about 60% of the farms voluntarily provide disease records which are "compiled" into a report. Exactly what sort of value is a voluntary summary report providing, other than window dressing and public relations? Why aren't they required to publish the disease records by individual farm today? They are crapping in our public oceans and aren't required to let us know what they are depositing....... What are they hiding? Why are they allowed to hide that info?
Isn't it fair for them to reveal the same kind of detail that they/you are demanding of Morton?
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I realize they coughed up a limited number of the records under court order..... That in itself revealed some of the disease outbreaks they had been hiding.
Today supposedly about 60% of the farms voluntarily provide disease records which are "compiled" into a report. Exactly what sort of value is a voluntary summary report providing, other than window dressing and public relations? Why aren't they required to publish the disease records by individual farm today? They are crapping in our public oceans and aren't required to let us know what they are depositing....... What are they hiding? Why are they allowed to hide that info?
Isn't it fair for them to reveal the same kind of detail that they/you are demanding of Morton?
They complied with what was requested from the commission - read the rulings. The raw data has been summarized by the province in the annual reports which debunks your theory that farms are hiding something. The reality is that the raw fish health data that is generated by the fish farms will likely mean very little to the average member of the general public. There are some people that know how to interpret this sort of data and take a keen interest in it (I have no problem with experienced people looking at raw data), but it can be easily misinterpreted if you don't have any biological experience such as fish pathology or virology. In the extreme case, raw data can be manipulated and with the conclusions published in the press incorrectly. There can also be negative biological consequences for misinterpreting data. That is why it is not just released to anyone at anytime.
Morton has created the myth that she and most members of the general public are being cheated out by not looking at these raw data records. The fact of the matter is that it is not uncommon to compile data like this and summarize it in reports. I deal with exclusively with raw data on a daily basis and I can tell you that the numbers by themselves would mean very little if you did not have an understanding how they fit into the bigger picture. This understanding comes with education and experience. It is not learned over the internet or watching the news. Broadly speaking, interpretation and analysis of the results is often necessary before it actually makes sense - even to those that collected the data in the first place. There is also a big issue as to how the data is saved and in what format. Older data is likely in hard copy paper format which is much more difficult to archive and retrieve than modern electronic copies. It is not a simple exercise to just open a filing cabinet and you automatically find what you need. Some data on paper may be non-legible, torn or collected in such a way that it is confusing to interpret years later. Ever tried to interpret someone’s notes regarding data collected many years ago? I have and it is not easy exercise. You then need the personnel in order to devote the time to retrieve and compile this paper data and put it in a more useable electronic format. You may choose to not believe me, but I have 20 years at this so I speak from experience. With more and more people online these days and taking more of an interest in environmental data I believe this type of information will slowly make its way onto the web more and more each year.
What sort of value are these reports? Well, to you they might not have much value at all because you have not really read and understood what I have posted for you already. For one thing, you are incorrect when you call them “voluntary summary report” and they are more than just “window dressing”. Secondly, you still do not understand the sampling methodology that was employed by the province in their audits (previously discussed at length in another thread on this site). Sorry, I do not have the time to keep repeating it for you, AF.
Why aren't they required to publish the disease records by individual farm today? You need to read the new federal regulations and understand the sampling methodology. I am not going to do your research on this. If you have a computer or a phone you can do this on your own. A better suggestion is to actually contact those responsible for monitoring.
As for detail, in my opinion, the “Dept. of Wild Salmon” website does not even compare to the level of detail produced by the province or the feds. Governments have their shortcomings, but in this instance they deliver far more detail and professionalism than this activist site. The “Dept. of Wild Salmon” site looks unprofessional by leaving many questions unanswered. For instance, what are these “standardized protocols” they are following? With the government reports I posted previously, sampling methodology is outlined in much more detail. That is the difference between someone that does not know what they are doing (i.e. Ms Morton) and someone that actually does (i.e. Dr. Gary Marty). In addition, there is absolutely no mention of Harrison Sockeye. Considering Ms Morton spent considerable time at Harrison Mills last year one would think that either positive or negative results would have made it onto that site. To you, that site might be impressive, but to me it is kind of a joke. If Morton truly believes that the public deserves to be informed then she would do a better job with that site.
Actually, it would be “fair” for people like Morton to be releasing the same sort of detail as she is demanding from the province and federal government. Considering the extensive reporting that the province and the feds have to do and the transparency that is demanded, I do not believe it is totally unreasonable to request that Ms Morton be a little more transparent herself by releasing these recent lab results. She has already released her conclusions on the results. What is of particular interest to me are the notes and interpretation done by the lab – not just the individual fish results. I would like to know what her lab had to say. We are not talking about a lot of fish here. The level of detail demanded from these lab results doesn't compare to what the province, feds or fish farms have to produce. Again, if the results match her conclusions (which she boldly made on her blog) then she should have no problem with this.
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Pfft!, whatever Sidestep Steve. We want raw data!!!!! Of course, then they'll be accused of trying to confuse the public with nonsensical pathology reports etc.
Donkey.
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There are some people that know how to interpret this sort of data and take a keen interest in it (I have no problem with experienced people looking at raw data), but it can be easily misinterpreted if you don't have any biological experience such as fish pathology or virology.
With more and more people online these days and taking more of an interest in environmental data I believe this type of information will slowly make its way onto the web more and more each year.
Governments have their shortcomings, but in this instance they deliver far more detail and professionalism than this activist site.
Sure..let's also have the raw data from the activists if transparency and informing the public is the goal.
Hee-haw! :D
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So Steve- is any or all of your income derived from fish farming? Or is there another sidestep coming? ;) Lovely day here on the lake :)
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They complied with what was requested from the commission - read the rulings.....................
Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it... What are they hiding?
And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?
The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?
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Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it... What are they hiding?
And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?
The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?
alwaysfishin- You have yet to provide us with all of your personal financial records, your birth certificate, your detailed fishing journal from the past 20 years? What are you hiding???
Oh wait, no one asked for it yet.
None of my income is derived from fish farming or feedlots. Sidestep can answer for himself, but he will probably disappoint you with his response.
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alwaysfishin- You have yet to provide us with all of your personal financial records, your birth certificate, your detailed fishing journal from the past 20 years? What are you hiding???
Oh wait, no one asked for it yet.
None of my income is derived from fish farming or feedlots. Sidestep can answer for himself, but he will probably disappoint you with his response.
Funny...... just not relevant though.
As shuswapsteve would say "Thanks for the entertainment" ;D
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Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.
What is she hiding?
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Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.
What is she hiding?
Shes hiding nothing, cause thats what the reports say nothing, Id be a little embarassed too. I mean here ive got the feds looking after fishfarms, got that away from the provincials, your welcome. Kibenge now doesnt want to be assocaited with me, Im batting 1000.... ;D ;D
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Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.
What is she hiding?
Nice redirect....... That's like having your doctor examining a pimple on your nose when your body is riddled with cancer.
We've allowed foreign companies to grow millions of salmon in feedlots in our oceans, yet we have limited information on how they are polluting our waters because the industry is allowed to keep their disease records secret..... versus a private citizen using private funds, trying to determine the effects of the feedlots on our wild salmon populations by testing a few salmon.
pretty hypocritical.....
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That's like having your doctor examining a pimple on your nose when your body is riddled with cancer
........sounds like Morton's approach to saving the salmon.
Reread dnibbles post. The records aren't secret; they are filed with people who analyze and summarize them and release the summaries.
Pretty hypocritical of Morton to demand the farms produce information but refuse to do so herself.
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There are some people that know how to interpret this sort of data and take a keen interest in it (I have no problem with experienced people looking at raw data), but it can be easily misinterpreted if you don't have any biological experience such as fish pathology or virology.
With more and more people online these days and taking more of an interest in environmental data I believe this type of information will slowly make its way onto the web more and more each year.
Governments have their shortcomings, but in this instance they deliver far more detail and professionalism than this activist site.
Sure..let's also have the raw data from the activists if transparency and informing the public is the goal.
Hee-haw! :D
Government controls most of this. Get a freedom of request back only to find a number of sentences blacked out. :(
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........sounds like Morton's approach to saving the salmon.
Reread dnibbles post. The records aren't secret; they are filed with people who analyze and summarize them and release the summaries.
Pretty hypocritical of Morton to demand the farms produce information but refuse to do so herself.
BINGO!!!!
Although I'll say that I think the farms are riskier than a pimple. Maybe a small, undiagnosed lump. It's something to keep an eye on, but those already diagnosed tumours known as overfishing and habitat destruction shouldn't be ignored.
When I get back to work I'll pull some "raw data" (sorry, it's not farm disease records) for you alwaysfishin. We'll see if you can even figure out what it is, let alone interpret it. Then I'll give the summary that I get paid to do. No opinion, no no slant, just number crunching, summary and analysis. IT will make a lot more sense to you when served "cooked", not raw ;-)
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Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it... What are they hiding?
And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?
The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?
AF, I can see you still didn't read the rulings. There were reasons why certain data could not be produced in a timely fashion for the inquiry as well as the aquaculture opponents' inability to provide a convincing arguement for those paper records. Maybe you should have been there to plead their case and use your “logic”. Secondly, you also have not read the new federal aquaculture regulations, specifically the Conditions of Licence for Finfish Aquaculture (Section 6).
I understand why you would say “dumbed down” data, but I certainly do not see it that way. Dumbed down seems to suggest that public is smart enough and cannot possibly understand this, so it has to be filtered and spoon-fed to them. It is not about that. Let me clarify….Most of this type of data is not that easy to understand – not even for me. The data from the province was compiled and summarized into reports to help people understand. I do not believe there was intent by the authors of these reports to belittle the public or hide things.
As time goes on, this type of data is going to be more accessible to people like you. The internet is just too much of a force now with everyone wanting to be able to access information online. I believe the new federal aquaculture regulations will be introducing this. It is not going to be instant as governments seem to move like glaciers sometimes with communication departments that would rather move backwards, but I think it is in the industry’s best interests in the long run in getting more public support. Not from the hard core activists because that will never happen, but more from the people that tend to think more logically and leave emotional arguments out of the equation (sadly, this could have been you).
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AF, I can see you still didn't read the rulings. There were reasons why certain data could not be produced in a timely fashion for the inquiry as well as the aquaculture opponents' inability to provide a convincing arguement for those paper records. Maybe you should have been there to plead their case and use your “logic”. Secondly, you also have not read the new federal aquaculture regulations, specifically the Conditions of Licence for Finfish Aquaculture (Section 6).
I understand why you would say “dumbed down” data, but I certainly do not see it that way. Dumbed down seems to suggest that public is smart enough and cannot possibly understand this, so it has to be filtered and spoon-fed to them. It is not about that. Let me clarify….Most of this type of data is not that easy to understand – not even for me. The data from the province was compiled and summarized into reports to help people understand. I do not believe there was intent by the authors of these reports to belittle the public or hide things.
As time goes on, this type of data is going to be more accessible to people like you. The internet is just too much of a force now with everyone wanting to be able to access information online. I believe the new federal aquaculture regulations will be introducing this. It is not going to be instant as governments seem to move like glaciers sometimes with communication departments that would rather move backwards, but I think it is in the industry’s best interests in the long run in getting more public support. Not from the hard core activists because that will never happen, but more from the people that tend to think more logically and leave emotional arguments out of the equation (sadly, this could have been you).
I support the principal of full disclosure irrespective of the capability of the recipient to understand it.
It's a poor reason for the feedlots to suggest that they don't want to release raw data because "no one will understand it". First off that is not true, as there are probably as smart if not smarter people in the anti-feedlot population than the pro-feedlot group. Secondly it's disrespectful of the public whose environment the feedlots are crapping in, to suggest that the raw data is "too sophisticated " for them to interpret.
We are totally capable of chewing our own food.....
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I support the principal of full disclosure irrespective of the capability of the recipient to understand it.
It's a poor reason for the feedlots to suggest that they don't want to release raw data because "no one will understand it". First off that is not true, as there are probably as smart if not smarter people in the anti-feedlot population than the pro-feedlot group. Secondly it's disrespectful of the public whose environment the feedlots are crapping in, to suggest that the raw data is "too sophisticated " for them to interpret.
We are totally capable of chewing our own food.....
Great reasoning AF-Anti fish farm are smarter than pro fish farm ? And let's see the proof ? I've seen the raw data and it is NOT understandable unless your trained to read it. Hopefully someone will show it to you and then you can quit arguing that your capable of understanding it. As for the comment it should be posted regardless if NO ONE in the public can read it anyway what is the point ??? ??? ??? It would mean nothing to them anyway and then people like you will just say your being shown a bunch of meaningless numbers. Good grief.........
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Great reasoning AF-Anti fish farm are smarter than pro fish farm ? And let's see the proof ? I've seen the raw data and it is NOT understandable unless your trained to read it. Hopefully someone will show it to you and then you can quit arguing that your capable of understanding it. As for the comment it should be posted regardless if NO ONE in the public can read it anyway what is the point ??? ??? ??? It would mean nothing to them anyway and then people like you will just say your being shown a bunch of meaningless numbers. Good grief.........
It is ridiculous to suggest that no one other than a feedlot farmer could understand raw disease data.... also untrue.
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no one other than a feedlot farmer could understand raw disease data
Again this is something only you have said. It is not what anyone here has said.
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It is ridiculous to suggest that no one other than a feedlot farmer could understand raw disease data.... also untrue.
It is ridiculous to suggest that anyone other than someone with fairly extensive training and a good deal of experience in fish pathology, epidemiology, virology and fish biology could make any sense of what the data indicates.
That is no doubt the reason Morton would love to get her hands on it. She can interpret it to mean whatever she chooses in order to grab headlines and virtually no-one outside the fish health community will be the wiser. It's her standard operating procedure and the most prevalent tactic you folks use in your war on the farms.
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It is ridiculous to suggest that no one other than a feedlot farmer could understand raw disease data.... also untrue.
Fish farmers don't claim to be able to understand the data in fact they say nothing................... They leave it to the people like Dr. Marty to interpret professionals if you get my drift ::) ::)As for Morton who is not a fish pathologist, a fish veterinarian or a marine biologist.she sucks people like you in with her pretence that she can interpret the data.
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That is no doubt the reason Morton would love to get her hands on it. She can interpret it to mean whatever she chooses in order to grab headlines and virtually no-one outside the fish health community will be the wiser.
That's interesting..... you are suggesting it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want?
Perhaps that's what the feedlot people are doing right now! Everyone knows Dr Marty is the DFO/feedlot's lapdog and will say anything they want him to say.... and sound convincing!
That's exactly why we need the public to see the raw data so we can use our own experts to analyze the data. If Dr Marty has a problem with the analysis then he is certainly free to speak up. At least the public sees it from another perspective if one exists.
We don't need someone to chew our food for us......
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Boot lickers like this (S)Marty(pants) guy usually get the boot anyway once their services are no longer usefull. Before they start to spill the beans on their crap they were so happy to shovel out. They suck people in like a black hole with bamboozled analysis that always gets countered down the road. Like some other black holes who keep supporting the dirty fish.
Good on ya AF for keeping the light on the black hole. ;D
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Boot lickers like this (S)Marty(pants) guy usually get the boot anyway once their services are no longer usefull. Before they start to spill the beans on their crap they were so happy to shovel out. They suck people in like a black hole with bamboozled analysis that always gets countered down the road. Like some other black holes who keep supporting the dirty fish.
Good on ya AF for keeping the light on the black hole. ;D
Sorta like you and AF brown nosin... ;D ;D...time to change the avatar..gotta keep the fans happy.
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That's interesting..... you are suggesting it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want?
Perhaps that's what the feedlot people are doing right now! Everyone knows Dr Marty is the DFO/feedlot's lapdog and will say anything they want him to say.... and sound convincing!
That's exactly why we need the public to see the raw data so we can use our own experts to analyze the data. If Dr Marty has a problem with the analysis then he is certainly free to speak up. At least the public sees it from another perspective if one exists.
We don't need someone to chew our food for us......
Anyone with a brain knows Morton will twist the data to fit her agenda. She still claims Kibenge found ISA even though he didn't. Your own experts ? And who would they be AF ?? Name them please ?? As for the public wanting to see it I don't think you are qualified to speak for the public as a whole. I certainly haven't ask you to speak for me. >:( >:( >:(
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Actually anyone with a brain knows the ENORMOUS trail of disease and problems that have followed ocean based Salmon farming since it's beginnings.
Everyone has their own pet biologists, fish farmers are no exception.
The placement of Salmon farms on wild salmon migratory routes is ludicrous and no amount of spin doctoring will change this poorly chosen decision.
Farmed Salmon tastes like crap, looks like crap, therfore, it is without question CRAP.
We knew Salmon farms were disaster long before Ms. Morton made it her agenda to save wild salmon.
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Well heres some ones jigs Ill no longer be purchasing...lol...kidding, all Im looking for is documented proof, and please dont list the standard Chile, norway, european yada yada as we know its a different kettle of fish. So far the only damage being done is our wilds killing the farmed fish.
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That's interesting..... you are suggesting it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want?
Perhaps that's what the feedlot people are doing right now! Everyone knows Dr Marty is the DFO/feedlot's lapdog and will say anything they want him to say.... and sound convincing!
That's exactly why we need the public to see the raw data so we can use our own experts to analyze the data. If Dr Marty has a problem with the analysis then he is certainly free to speak up. At least the public sees it from another perspective if one exists.
We don't need someone to chew our food for us......
Actually, it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want. The difference is that Dr. Marty is a board certified fish pathologist - Ms Morton is not. Dr. Marty and his immediate colleagues are obligated to clearly outline their methodology as you have seen in the annual reports that I have posted for you. Ms Morton produces no reports on her fish health raw data - only blog posts on safe sites. Ms Morton will say her sampling group uses “standardized protocols”, but does not explain what they are – instead wants you to trust her (very transparent, huh…lol?). People like Dr. Marty had to testify at a judicial inquiry to explain this raw data that WAS released to the public. This means that your experts, which you do not mention, can look at it themselves. Dr. Marty also had to explain his methodology which was also made public on transcripts. On the other hand, people like Ms Morton, who has no experience with fish pathology or fish biology, merely takes this raw data and makes her own conclusions – not held to the same standards as Dr. Marty.
Ms Morton then has fish sampled, sent to a lab for testing and then makes these bold claims of alphaviruses (first ever occurrence in BC waters apparently) and reoviruses which she posts on her blog, but doesn’t feel obligated to inform the public of her raw data. Does she believe that you are not able to understand it, AF? Do you think she is hiding something? Here is 1 of the 3 premises of the Dept. of Wild Salmon:
Salmon health has to be public information to make the decisions that will produce the most salmon.
Somehow it seems the release of salmon health information and methdology only applies to people like Dr. Marty but not to people like Ms Morton. Ms Morton is clearly a hypocrite that says one thing and does something else. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is much more transparent and forthcoming. Time to get off of Ms Morton’s lap, AF.
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Actually, it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want. The difference is that Dr. Marty is a board certified fish pathologist -
You need to open your eyes and realize that Dr Marty is likely taking the data and making the summary report say exactly what the aquaculture industry wants him to say. If he said anything that implicated the feedlot business he would be looking for new employment.
That's why we need people like Morton to look at things from a wild salmon perspective.
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Actually anyone with a brain knows the ENORMOUS trail of disease and problems that have followed ocean based Salmon farming since it's beginnings.
Everyone has their own pet biologists, fish farmers are no exception.
The placement of Salmon farms on wild salmon migratory routes is ludicrous and no amount of spin doctoring will change this poorly chosen decision.
Farmed Salmon tastes like crap, looks like crap, therfore, it is without question CRAP.
We knew Salmon farms were disaster long before Ms. Morton made it her agenda to save wild salmon.
Farmed salmon does not taste like crap, doesn't look like crap so isn't crap. Obviously a lot of people disagree with you or the industry wouldn't have grown to the size it is. If you don't like it don't eat it and leave it at that. In France for instance you will find it in pretty much every restaurant and market you go to. It is extremely popular in Europe.
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You need to open your eyes and realize that Dr Marty is likely taking the data and making the summary report say exactly what the aquaculture industry wants him to say. If he said anything that implicated the feedlot business he would be looking for new employment.
That's why we need people like Morton to look at things from a wild salmon perspective.
You need to open your eyes and realize that Alexandra Morton is likely taking the data and making the summary report say exactly what the she wants it to say. If she said anything that didn't implicate the feedlot business she would be looking for new employment.
That's why we need trained experts like Dr. Marty looking at the tests. From a wild salmon perspective the diseases are endemic to pacific salmon.
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You need to open your eyes and realize that Alexandra Morton is likely taking the data and making the summary report say exactly what the she wants it to say. If she said anything that didn't implicate the feedlot business she would be looking for new employment.
That's why we need trained experts like Dr. Marty looking at the tests. From a wild salmon perspective the diseases are endemic to pacific salmon.
hahahahahah
Awesome :-)
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You need to open your eyes and realize that Alexandra Morton is likely taking the data and making the summary report say exactly what the she wants it to say. If she said anything that didn't implicate the feedlot business she would be looking for new employment.
That's why we need trained experts like Dr. Marty looking at the tests. From a wild salmon perspective the diseases are endemic to pacific salmon.
That's more like it! Thanks, Annie.
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That's more like it! Thanks, Annie.
Your welcome !!!
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Farm it in France then, just get it out of here, where we still know what a real Salmon tastes like.
People cram Macdonalds down their gullets, is this also NOT CRAP, we all know the answer to that.
I very much look forward to the day someone like "Dave Watson" sets his sights on your industry.
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Farm it in France then, just get it out of here, where we still know what a real Salmon tastes like.
People cram Macdonalds down their gullets, is this also NOT CRAP, we all know the answer to that.
I very much look forward to the day someone like "Dave Watson" sets his sights on your industry.
The feedlot industry(and Macdonalds) uses marketing to sell their crap. Most people eating farmed salmon (and Macdonalds burgers) have no idea of the health implications of putting that stuff in their bodies.
I guess that's the reason for Morton's statement "Corporations are like giant mosquitoes" sucking the life out of people that fill their faces with their crap... :(
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Dave Watson the English footballer? Dave Watson the musician? Dave Watson the only man to have skied the Bottleneck on K2?
An observation about the content and tone of the "two sides" in this debate. Only one side seems to repeatedly use the terms "we all know..." or "anybody with a brain knows that...". I'm seeing these statements as displaying a sense of desperation in the argument; rational debate can no longer occur due to lack of fact, evidence etc, so alarmist and unsubstantiated statements such as these are being tossed around.
Is this beginning to approach the Godwin's Law asymptote???
(PS - It's Paul Watson you refer to, I assume)
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Actually, it is possible for someone to take the data and make the summary report say whatever they want.
It is ridiculous to suggest that anyone other than someone with fairly extensive training and a good deal of experience in fish pathology, epidemiology, virology and fish biology could make any sense of what the data indicates.
As for the comment it should be posted regardless if NO ONE in the public can read it anyway what is the point ??? ??? ??? It would mean nothing to them anyway and then people like you will just say your being shown a bunch of meaningless numbers. Good grief.........
As time goes on, this type of data is going to be more accessible to people like you. The internet is just too much of a force now with everyone wanting to be able to access information online. I believe the new federal aquaculture regulations will be introducing this. It is not going to be instant as governments seem to move like glaciers sometimes with communication departments that would rather move backwards, but I think it is in the industry’s best interests in the long run in getting more public support.
Actually the USGS is already providing a lot of raw data to the public..... Appparently they give their public more credit for being able to understand the raw data than the feedlot business in Canada. Or is it that USGS is not paranoid that the public will discover the feedlot business's dirty little secrets...
Here's their raw data miner for IHN.... http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/ (http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/)
They even provide a template program for anyone to use..... http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html (http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html) maybe something DFO and the feedlot business could use... if they ever decide to become open about their dirty little operations.
Of course there is still the ridiculous issue with their voluntary disease reporting!
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and sidestep steve won't divulge if he ever made any coin off of fish farming ::) :D :D :D
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Actually the USGS is already providing a lot of raw data to the public..... Appparently they give their public more credit for being able to understand the raw data than the feedlot business in Canada. Or is it that USGS is not paranoid that the public will discover the feedlot business's dirty little secrets...
Here's their raw data miner for IHN.... http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/ (http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/)
They even provide a template program for anyone to use..... http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html (http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html) maybe something DFO and the feedlot business could use... if they ever decide to become open about their dirty little operations.
Of course there is still the ridiculous issue with their voluntary disease reporting!
[/quote
Too bad you don't understand your site actually shows how widespread IHN is in the world and the fact it exists in numerous fish species. It also exists in France occuring naturally in trout. It is endemic. You know occurs naturally in the environment ? ::) ::) ::) ::) You just proved why the public cannot use data wisely and that is because they don't know how to interpret it properly. Frankly your back to beating a dead horse. And you are proving absolutely nothing at all except you like to argue .
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Actually the USGS is already providing a lot of raw data to the public..... Appparently they give their public more credit for being able to understand the raw data than the feedlot business in Canada. Or is it that USGS is not paranoid that the public will discover the feedlot business's dirty little secrets...
Here's their raw data miner for IHN.... http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/ (http://gis.nacse.org/ihnv/)
They even provide a template program for anyone to use..... http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html (http://wfrc.usgs.gov/aquaPath_template.html) maybe something DFO and the feedlot business could use... if they ever decide to become open about their dirty little operations.
Of course there is still the ridiculous issue with their voluntary disease reporting!
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/BCP002975%20Case%23%20%2010-1442.pdf- Just one example of the fact Morton doesn't know how to read disease reports. The report actually in one part questions if the fish samples were electrocuted. It goes on to say a number of other scenarios and completes by saying there was NO disease present. Yet Morton interprets it as showing Dr. Marty has found disease. AF you are a sucker for a woman who spins nothing but crap about Dr. Marty who is far more qualified than she is to begin with. She still lies about Kibenge's ISA findings which were NOT confirmed and stated as such by approx. three other labs who retested her poor samples. Personally I think she submits poor samples deliberately knowing full well it gives her an excuse for lack of confirmation of her alleged results. The woman is a fraud.
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and sidestep steve won't divulge if he ever made any coin off of fish farming ::) :D :D :D
Bonkers, you've already been told you won't like the answer ... why be embarrassed again? ;D
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and sidestep steve won't divulge if he ever made any coin off of fish farming ::) :D :D :D
What difference would it make if he did ? The facts about IHN will still be the same, it is endemic in Pacific salmon and a few other species as well. It occurs in trout in France. The truth will still be there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon in spite of Morton lying about her test results. And just where are the public records of Morton's test results ? Maybe some of the public would like to see some proof from her :D :D :D :D I know I would..........
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Yes it has existed in wild stocks for some time... It has never been a problem before but much like a public school someone almost has the flu and it's not a problem but if everyone in the class has it well that's where it appears we are now.
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Too bad you don't understand your site actually shows how widespread IHN is in the world and the fact it exists in numerous fish species. It also exists in France occuring naturally in trout. It is endemic. You know occurs naturally in the environment ? ::) ::) ::) ::) You just proved why the public cannot use data wisely and that is because they don't know how to interpret it properly. Frankly your back to beating a dead horse. And you are proving absolutely nothing at all except you like to argue .
Annie, I have come to realization that AF does not actually get it yet. Nibbles has it right in his latest post. AF figures he has the magic bullet, but further analysis shows he just put a hole in his own arguement. No more need to waste more ammo on him in that debate. Want to jump into the "quick sand", Absolon...lol?
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What difference would it make if he did ? The facts about IHN will still be the same, it is endemic in Pacific salmon and a few other species as well. It occurs in trout in France. The truth will still be there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon in spite of Morton lying about her test results. And just where are the public records of Morton's test results ? Maybe some of the public would like to see some proof from her :D :D :D :D I know I would..........
Annie, didn't you know that anyone that takes the opposite view of pro fear mongers HAS to be getting paid by fish farming? They can't possibly be employed in some other field and have an opinion about the industry or fish biology. Sorry, but I have to notify the rest of the shareholders about these latest developments tonight....LMAO.
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I'm beginning to think that rather than quicksand, it's more like wrestling with pigs. As George Bernard Shaw said, the only outcomes from doing so are that one gets dirty and the pig likes it.
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Annie, didn't you know that anyone that takes the opposite view of pro fear mongers HAS to be getting paid by fish farming? They can't possibly be employed in some other field and have an opinion about the industry or fish biology. Sorry, but I have to notify the rest of the shareholders about these latest developments tonight....LMAO.
You are right about that. I've been accused for years of being paid to stand up for fish farming. It doesn't occur to some people others actually believe in the industry and a lot of them have no connection to the industry whatsoever. I'm sure AF would be surprised to know the average person on the street has no clue who Alexandra Morton even is nor do they care. :) :) :)
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And to think, they call her a scientist. Nothing more than an idiot gone wild if ya ask me ::)
GONE WILD!!!???? I better go back and have a look see.....the first time I didn't see any naked students!!
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Bonkers, you've already been told you won't like the answer ... why be embarrassed again? ;D
What have I got to be embarrassed about Dave? All I asked was if he ever made any of his money EVER, in the past or now from fish farmers and all I hear is stony silence. If I don't ask, I just assume he's another shill for the feedlots. How did you succeed in science without a curious mind? ??? ??? ???
Bonkers? Wow- that's a real knee slapper. Or was that a term of endearment?Again, that air of those that don't agree with your opinion are rude little ignoramus idiots, open to personal slaps and condescending cheap shots. Very mature and sure to win people over to your side. ::)
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What have I got to be embarrassed about Dave? All I asked was if he ever made any of his money EVER, in the past or now from fish farmers and all I hear is stony silence. If I don't ask, I just assume he's another shill for the feedlots. How did you succeed in science without a curious mind? ??? ??? ???
Bonkers? Wow- that's a real knee slapper. Or was that a term of endearment?Again, that air of those that don't agree with your opinion are rude little ignoramus idiots, open to personal slaps and condescending cheap shots. Very mature and sure to win people over to your side. ::)
Last part of your comment sounds like the AF treatment of those who disagree with him.
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What have I got to be embarrassed about Dave? All I asked was if he ever made any of his money EVER, in the past or now from fish farmers and all I hear is stony silence. If I don't ask, I just assume he's another shill for the feedlots. How did you succeed in science without a curious mind? ??? ??? ???
Bonkers? Wow- that's a real knee slapper. Or was that a term of endearment?Again, that air of those that don't agree with your opinion are rude little ignoramus idiots, open to personal slaps and condescending cheap shots. Very mature and sure to win people over to your side. ::)
Read a few of Shuswapsteves previous posts and even you should pick up on what he does for a living.
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Read a few of Shuswapsteves previous posts and even you should pick up on what he does for a living.
He's a chemist who makes SLICE?
I would imagine if he had a fishing rod in his hands he would be untangling a birds nest. ;D
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He's a chemist who makes SLICE?
I would imagine if he had a fishing rod in his hands he would be untangling a birds nest. ;D
I haven't had the pleasure of fishing with him yet but I'm told he's a good angler, one who doesn't trip on his tongue and always backs his statements with facts. And that's why people like SS are so important to forums like these ;D
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Dave get pictures to prove you went fishing with him. :) I don't mean close ups of his face or anything like that. Just a distant shot of you and the scientist out there swapping tall tells and hauling in fish ....with a rod. I find that someone who spends as much time as he and some of the other pro folk, must not get much r and r if you know what I mean. After all this site does allow for posting about fishing trips and tips. Not just furrowed brow, point against point on fish farming. If I was a gambler though I bet he's playing with that birds nest. ;D
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Dave get pictures to prove you went fishing with him. :) I don't mean close ups of his face or anything like that. Just a distant shot of you and the scientist out there swapping tall tells and hauling in fish ....with a rod. I find that someone who spends as much time as he and some of the other pro folk, must not get much r and r if you know what I mean. After all this site does allow for posting about fishing trips and tips. Not just furrowed brow, point against point on fish farming. If I was a gambler though I bet he's playing with that birds nest. ;D
I have an extra fishing rod I can lend him..... it's a spin cast. ;D
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You are right about that. I've been accused for years of being paid to stand up for fish farming. It doesn't occur to some people others actually believe in the industry and a lot of them have no connection to the industry whatsoever. I'm sure AF would be surprised to know the average person on the street has no clue who Alexandra Morton even is nor do they care. :) :) :)
And that is the trouble as too may people donot care about the environment and attempt to save it. We can look at the past and see there is too many example of that. I think you are intelligent enough to see what they are.
Without people like Alex and there is more than just her that are trying to stop the slide down the slippery slope that is fast approaching.
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I have an extra fishing rod I can lend him..... it's a spin cast. ;D
What’s up with you alwaysfishin and troutbreath? Why does SS have to be seen fishing? Hell, he works with fish every day … from experience sometimes a day without fish is a very good day.
The man you are speaking of has more qualifications to speak to this subject than most anyone here. How about trying to learn something about this issue rather than question his angling skills ???
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" How about trying to learn something about this issue rather than question his angling skills "
It may come as a surprise, but I'm not convinced that from what I've read and seen over the years this industry is nothing but about making money at the expense of the wild stocks. Makes me really dubious about commercial fish farming. It's not like I don't know the history of the problems in Europe. Then the more recent wipe out in South America.
You might call that past history, old news etc. I call it documented fact. It's a cheap technology based on ocean based pens that have caused the situation. I don't need apologist scientist lackey's trying to convince me otherwise. Too old for that Dave.
I don't hear anything else other than we want to do fish farming as cheap as the other inconsiderate businesses. That count on overall public apethy. Gives good business a bad name. Again I see nothing wrong with fish farming per se.
You just post a pic of good old SS with a fishing rod......with or without the birds nest.. :)
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He's a chemist who makes SLICE?
I would imagine if he had a fishing rod in his hands he would be untangling a birds nest. ;D
Not to worry Dave these comments were bound to happen at some point.
If it was a level line I was trying to cast I would have to agree with you, TB. I primarily fly fish (since I was 13). I am not an expert by any means, but I never took up flyfishing in the first place to compete with other anglers on casting ability and polish my ego. I will leave that up to old timers like you. Zing. ;D
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I have an extra fishing rod I can lend him..... it's a spin cast. ;D
I just might take you up on that. In exchange I will lend you a biology text book.
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I just might take you up on that. In exchange I will lend you a biology text book.
Give him Zar. A nice light read lol.
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I just might take you up on that. In exchange I will lend you a biology text book.
I would know what to do with the biology text book..... are you going to know what to do with a spin cast? Maybe I can include a lesson.
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And that is the trouble as too may people donot care about the environment and attempt to save it. We can look at the past and see there is too many example of that. I think you are intelligent enough to see what they are.
Without people like Alex and there is more than just her that are trying to stop the slide down the slippery slope that is fast approaching.
Apparently you don't know much about commercial salmon fishing or how it's demise came about. I am married to someone who was a fourth generation commercial salmon fisherman. When I met him in 1982 salmon fishing was bad that year. His family lost several boats to the bank because the interest rate had climbed to 28% and lack of fish made it impossible to make their payments like many other commercial fishers that year. The truth about the commercial salmon fishery and the demise of wild stocks is well researched in a book entitled "Salmon the decline of the British Columbia fishery " written by Geoff Meggs My husband's family have a long history with the commercial industry. My husband's grandfather sat on the law of the sea conference in Venezuela in the 70's when Canada negotiated the 200 hundred mile limit and was given the order of Canada for his participation and for his representation of FN peoples. My husband's family had the chum test charter in Johnstone strait for years. They also did chum and pink tagging for the DFO in the fifties. I am well aware of the fluctuation of mainland pinks returns and the fact it has nothing to do with sea lice which Alex Morton claims to have " discovered " in the Broughton in 2007. Mainland pinks have historically come back high and low for decades and that is why they were studied by the DFO in the first place. Long before fish farms. Morton's claim that everything wrong with wild salmon is the fault of fish farms is nothing but an activist pointing the finger at a convenient scapegoat . Where's the science ? Her unprofessional behaviour speaks for itself. She is not a scientist and has certainly not demonstrated any measure of professionalism whatsoever. Respected scientists don't march down island wearing plastic sealice on their faces, they don't deface bridges with graffiti, they don't insult respected scientists like Richard Beamish , they don't dump garbage at the doors of local businesses, they don't throw fish at Aquaculture business doorways etc. Morton is nothing but a public nuisance and if she were fourteen years old she would be charged with vandalism and public mischief for some of her childish public demonstrations and given community service in punishment. She behaves worse than any teenage hooligan. Racist remarks from her followers toward visiting dignataries from Norway is disgusting and personally if the American Morton doesn't like Norwegians for whatever reason she can keep it to herself or go back to the USA as far as I'm concerned. Racism has NO place in Canada .
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And that is the trouble as too may people donot care about the environment and attempt to save it. We can look at the past and see there is too many example of that. I think you are intelligent enough to see what they are.
Without people like Alex and there is more than just her that are trying to stop the slide down the slippery slope that is fast approaching.
Another good book is written by Dr. Dixie Lee Ray former governor of Washington state entitled " Environmental Overkill ". The truth behing the frightening headlines of environmental disaster. Ms Ray highlights some of the worst campaigns by environmentalists and how they actually did more harm than good. She discusses how people lost jobs due to over zealous activists and their unscientific and unproven claims. It fits Morton and her agenda to a tee.
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Racism has NO place in Canada .
Unless your a Seven Day'er named Wakus and you don't think that herring opening's should happen on Saturday's. ;D
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Unless your a Seven Day'er named Wakus and you don't think that herring opening's should happen on Saturday's. ;D
At one time Sunday was observed by Christians as the sabbath. Seventh dayers observe Saturday although I agree if it opened on Saturday they should have had the option to fish or not and the rest of the fleet shouldn't have been penalized for someone else's beliefs. Hardly racism though.
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Another example of how the feedlots are like a giant mosquito......
"Serious salmon farming is coming to Nova Scotia. Wonderful news, you’ve surely heard. Lots of jobs. A few people are against it, of course, but this shouldn’t be a problem — just come-from-aways fretting about the views from their fancy properties.
If that’s how you understand it, think again.
Salmon farming has gone from being a good idea on a modest scale to a pernicious excess worldwide involving noxious chemicals, harm to wild fisheries, lavish taxpayer subsidies and unwholesome government/industry collusion.
What’s coming to Nova Scotia is what’s going awry elsewhere. The recent wipeout of salmon farms in Shelburne Harbour by infectious salmon anemia — after the entire industry in Chile was similarly wiped out — may have perked your attention. The fact that you, the taxpayer, will be paying to restore the operation should perk it even more.
Nova Scotia is late to salmon farming. Our bays are becoming available because of global warming. The fish in the first operations 35 years ago often froze. We have time, in other words, to do it right. Alas, the government, even as it prepares an aquaculture strategy, is giving little indication of that. Applications for cages have been rubber-stamped; regulations run over; a vast coalition of opponents from the commercial fishery, tourism, sports fishing and others wanting a moratorium on open-pen aquaculture until it’s all worked out can’t get the time of day from government, and so on.
Nova Scotia is the next phase of operations for Canada’s salmon farming multinational, Cooke Aquaculture, the largest in North America, which is finding things tricky in its main operations in New Brunswick. Ditto for Loch Duart, bursting out of Scotland, that wants to set up in Eastern Shore bays and inlets.
In New Brunswick, Cooke is up for trial on 72 counts of dumping illegal substances after a two-year investigation into dead lobsters by Environment Canada in the salmon farming areas of the Bay of Fundy. Cooke CEO Glenn Cooke and two other executives are named. Penalties are up to three years in jail or a $1-million fine per count or both.
Plus this, from recent hearings of the Senate fisheries committee in Ottawa. In 2010, the New Brunswick Fisheries Department OK’d the use of a powerful chemical called AlphaMax against sea lice in the salmon cages, after some cursory tests. Sea lice are a big problem, and they get progressively immune to the chemicals used against them. They’re also crustaceans, so poisons used against them will affect other shellfish. Suspicious agents from Environment Canada showed up, put dye in the chemical as it was being applied, and followed the plume as far as eight kilometres out, immersing caged lobsters in it as they went. The lobsters all died. A stop was put to its use.
Here’s the kicker. The Harper government is gutting the Fisheries Act and Environment Canada. In future, the committee heard, stopping such activities will be harder, maybe impossible.
There are other problems.
The caged salmon industry trades on the image of the leaping wild salmon. In fact, the nice pink you see on farmed salmon in the stores is food dye (“lucantin pink” from BASF chemicals or “carophyll pink” from Roche pharmaceuticals). In some cases, there are antibiotics and hormones. There was a bust-up in Britain this winter: cautions from health authorities, and a headline in the admittedly over-the-top Daily Mail that proclaimed “pink poison.”
Aquaculture was meant to supplement declining wild stocks of fish. Mostly it has. But in the case of farmed salmon, it takes four to seven kilograms of feed to make one kilogram of salmon. The feed is fishmeal from herring mackerel, anchovies, Arctic krill and others along the food chain. Thus, it’s far more destructive than helpful to the world’s fisheries. Plus, almost invariably, wherever fish farms appear, wild salmon stocks disappear. The St. Mary’s River and others of Eastern Nova Scotia are marked waters if Loch Duart gets its way.
Not least, salmon cages are extremely polluting. It’s like a sewer outfall wherever they establish — from excess feed and feces and sometimes heavy metals, like zinc and copper, from cage de-fouling agents.
And the promise of jobs is largely illusory. According to Susanna Fuller, co-ordinator of the marine divisions of the Ecology Action Centre, even within aquaculture, salmon farming is near the bottom as operations become more automated. She has produced an analysis on behalf of the “responsible aquaculture” coalition. It’s available on the EAC website under “marine.” It was created for the benefit of government. “They weren’t giving us any information, so we gave them some,” she says.
The coalition, which includes most of the commercial fishery, don’t want an end to salmon farming. They want it sustainable, an addition rather than a detriment to the wild fishery — an end, for example, to “open-pen” farming in favour of shore-based pens. The companies complain this is not economically feasible. A big mouthful for an industry which, says Fuller, has a 50 per cent rate of return and is stuffed silly with subsidies."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged (http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged)
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Another example of how the feedlots are like a giant mosquito......
"Serious salmon farming is coming to Nova Scotia. Wonderful news, you’ve surely heard. Lots of jobs. A few people are against it, of course, but this shouldn’t be a problem — just come-from-aways fretting about the views from their fancy properties.
If that’s how you understand it, think again.
Salmon farming has gone from being a good idea on a modest scale to a pernicious excess worldwide involving noxious chemicals, harm to wild fisheries, lavish taxpayer subsidies and unwholesome government/industry collusion.
What’s coming to Nova Scotia is what’s going awry elsewhere. The recent wipeout of salmon farms in Shelburne Harbour by infectious salmon anemia — after the entire industry in Chile was similarly wiped out — may have perked your attention. The fact that you, the taxpayer, will be paying to restore the operation should perk it even more.
Nova Scotia is late to salmon farming. Our bays are becoming available because of global warming. The fish in the first operations 35 years ago often froze. We have time, in other words, to do it right. Alas, the government, even as it prepares an aquaculture strategy, is giving little indication of that. Applications for cages have been rubber-stamped; regulations run over; a vast coalition of opponents from the commercial fishery, tourism, sports fishing and others wanting a moratorium on open-pen aquaculture until it’s all worked out can’t get the time of day from government, and so on.
Nova Scotia is the next phase of operations for Canada’s salmon farming multinational, Cooke Aquaculture, the largest in North America, which is finding things tricky in its main operations in New Brunswick. Ditto for Loch Duart, bursting out of Scotland, that wants to set up in Eastern Shore bays and inlets.
In New Brunswick, Cooke is up for trial on 72 counts of dumping illegal substances after a two-year investigation into dead lobsters by Environment Canada in the salmon farming areas of the Bay of Fundy. Cooke CEO Glenn Cooke and two other executives are named. Penalties are up to three years in jail or a $1-million fine per count or both.
Plus this, from recent hearings of the Senate fisheries committee in Ottawa. In 2010, the New Brunswick Fisheries Department OK’d the use of a powerful chemical called AlphaMax against sea lice in the salmon cages, after some cursory tests. Sea lice are a big problem, and they get progressively immune to the chemicals used against them. They’re also crustaceans, so poisons used against them will affect other shellfish. Suspicious agents from Environment Canada showed up, put dye in the chemical as it was being applied, and followed the plume as far as eight kilometres out, immersing caged lobsters in it as they went. The lobsters all died. A stop was put to its use.
Here’s the kicker. The Harper government is gutting the Fisheries Act and Environment Canada. In future, the committee heard, stopping such activities will be harder, maybe impossible.
There are other problems.
The caged salmon industry trades on the image of the leaping wild salmon. In fact, the nice pink you see on farmed salmon in the stores is food dye (“lucantin pink” from BASF chemicals or “carophyll pink” from Roche pharmaceuticals). In some cases, there are antibiotics and hormones. There was a bust-up in Britain this winter: cautions from health authorities, and a headline in the admittedly over-the-top Daily Mail that proclaimed “pink poison.”
Aquaculture was meant to supplement declining wild stocks of fish. Mostly it has. But in the case of farmed salmon, it takes four to seven kilograms of feed to make one kilogram of salmon. The feed is fishmeal from herring mackerel, anchovies, Arctic krill and others along the food chain. Thus, it’s far more destructive than helpful to the world’s fisheries. Plus, almost invariably, wherever fish farms appear, wild salmon stocks disappear. The St. Mary’s River and others of Eastern Nova Scotia are marked waters if Loch Duart gets its way.
Not least, salmon cages are extremely polluting. It’s like a sewer outfall wherever they establish — from excess feed and feces and sometimes heavy metals, like zinc and copper, from cage de-fouling agents.
And the promise of jobs is largely illusory. According to Susanna Fuller, co-ordinator of the marine divisions of the Ecology Action Centre, even within aquaculture, salmon farming is near the bottom as operations become more automated. She has produced an analysis on behalf of the “responsible aquaculture” coalition. It’s available on the EAC website under “marine.” It was created for the benefit of government. “They weren’t giving us any information, so we gave them some,” she says.
The coalition, which includes most of the commercial fishery, don’t want an end to salmon farming. They want it sustainable, an addition rather than a detriment to the wild fishery — an end, for example, to “open-pen” farming in favour of shore-based pens. The companies complain this is not economically feasible. A big mouthful for an industry which, says Fuller, has a 50 per cent rate of return and is stuffed silly with subsidies."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged (http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged)
Nice spiel but doesn't address the fact that there is no closed containment system that can farm salmon on the level it is farmed now. Agri-Marine's attempt at closed containment was a colossal failure this year when hurricane force winds hit Campbell River. The water based tank touted to be leading edge by Agri-Marine literally blew apart in the hurricane force winds that hit Middle Point site. Fish escaped and Agri Marine stated in a TV newscast it didn't matter that fish escaped because they were Chinook. Really ?? As for land based sites I guess we will see when the Alert Bay band start up their closed containment on the Nimpkish River sometime in the future. The truth is closed containment would be detrimental to the environment on a number of levels. It would consume vast quantities of water, diesel fuel, electricity and land. It would pollute the air and probably cause a lot of noise pollution if built on the scale necessary to earn a profit. And then there would be the next group of activists protesting it on some bogus claim or another. Most of what you have posted is so old it's mouldy. Beating the dead horse again AF. Feed ratios, colouring etc. all false . Just another rant from the anti crowd.
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Nice spiel but doesn't address the fact that there is no closed containment system that can farm salmon on the level it is farmed now. Agri-Marine's attempt at closed containment was a colossal failure this year when hurricane force winds hit Campbell River. The water based tank touted to be leading edge by Agri-Marine literally blew apart in the hurricane force winds that hit Middle Point site. Fish escaped and Agri Marine stated in a TV newscast it didn't matter that fish escaped because they were Chinook. Really ?? As for land based sites I guess we will see when the Alert Bay band start up their closed containment on the Nimpkish River sometime in the future. The truth is closed containment would be detrimental to the environment on a number of levels. It would consume vast quantities of water, diesel fuel, electricity and land. It would pollute the air and probably cause a lot of noise pollution if built on the scale necessary to earn a profit. And then there would be the next group of activists protesting it on some bogus claim or another. Most of what you have posted is so old it's mouldy. Beating the dead horse again AF. Feed ratios, colouring etc. all false . Just another rant from the anti crowd.
So you are saying that dyes are no longer used to colour Atlantic salmon?
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If you got a freedom of information request for the feed ingredients for farmed salmon......you would think you were looking at "roach" killer dyed red. ;D
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If you got a freedom of information request for the feed ingredients for farmed salmon......you would think you were looking at "roach" killer dyed red. ;D
Nice exaggeration TB. Farmed salmon are fed:
A natural, well-balanced fish feed (fish meal) important to ensure healthy salmon. Fish feed suppliers produce feed in accordance with Canadian government feed regulations. All ingredients are inspected by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.
Carotenoid pigment produces the rich red hue in both wild and farmed salmon. Wild salmon receive this pigment through sources such as krill and other crustaceans; farmed salmon receive this same pigment (astaxanthin and canthaxanthin) in their feed.
Fish are fed a balanced diet containing oils derived from plants such as soybean and fish as well as fish meal and natural fillers. The fish feed conversion ratio-the amount of feed required to produce a similar weight of fish-is approximately one-to-one. The efficient conversion of feed to weight of fish harvested is key component of sustainable fish farming. In addition fish feed does not contain any added hormones or steroids.
Fish feed contains:
Fish Meal & plant protein
38-50%
Fish Oil & plant oil
20-38%
Fibre & NFE
1-13%
Ash
0%
Moisture
7%
Vitamins, minerals, pigment
<1%
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So you are saying that dyes are no longer used to colour Atlantic salmon?
http://www.bellona.org/aquaculture/artikler/Dyes_in_salmon
Not actually a dye as commonly known. Another Morton misconception.
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Pigment / dye
Sound pretty similar .... Could also include artificial coulor .....may contain ......
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Pigment / dye
Sound pretty similar .... Could also include artificial coulor .....may contain ......
You are aware that black cod or sable fish is dyed red and is actually yellow when smoked naturally ? I'd eat a farmed salmon before I eat commercial caught and smoked sable fish thank you.
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Pigment / dye
Sound pretty similar .... Could also include artificial coulor .....may contain ......
[/quote
Myth #5: The red dye used in farmed salmon is a health concern.
Actually the red "dye" added to the feed of farmed salmon is a nutrient--the same carotenoid (astaxanthin) found in the wild.There is no evidence to suggest this compound is harmful to humans.Though manufactured synthetically it is FDA-approved, and probably more good than bad for you.
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I wouldn't eat either yuck
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My salmon contain no additives .....thank you very much
You go eat your " modified " super fish
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My salmon contain no additives .....thank you very much
You go eat your " modified " super fish
Actually the red "dye" added to the feed of farmed salmon is a nutrient--the same carotenoid (astaxanthin) found in the wild.There is no evidence to suggest this compound is harmful to humans.Though manufactured synthetically it is FDA-approved, and probably more good than bad for you.
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Get off your soap box and go fishing Annie
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Get off your soap box and go fishing Annie
I'd love to go fishing thanks........... ;)
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Nice exaggeration TB. Farmed salmon are fed:
A natural, well-balanced fish feed (fish meal) important to ensure healthy salmon. Fish feed suppliers produce feed in accordance with Canadian government feed regulations. All ingredients are inspected by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.
Carotenoid pigment produces the rich red hue in both wild and farmed salmon. Wild salmon receive this pigment through sources such as krill and other crustaceans; farmed salmon receive this same pigment (astaxanthin and canthaxanthin) in their feed.
Fish are fed a balanced diet containing oils derived from plants such as soybean and fish as well as fish meal and natural fillers. The fish feed conversion ratio-the amount of feed required to produce a similar weight of fish-is approximately one-to-one. The efficient conversion of feed to weight of fish harvested is key component of sustainable fish farming. In addition fish feed does not contain any added hormones or steroids.
Fish feed contains:
Fish Meal & plant protein
38-50%
Fish Oil & plant oil
20-38%
Fibre & NFE
1-13%
Ash
0%
Moisture
7%
Vitamins, minerals, pigment
<1%
you forgot SLICE
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you forgot SLICE
Are you aware that any vegetables you purchase from the USA have been treated with slice ? They use it for market gardening. Hope your not paying extra at the grocery store for "organic" from the USA. California also sprays it's strawberry crops with a form of nerve gas. The skin of oranges has been dyed to get that bright orange color and Apples are "waxed" to make them shiny. Apparently humans like colourful food and insist on it being bright colourful and shiny. Guess what ?? We've been eating chemicals for years.
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Sidestep Stever: ;D ;D
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/460295283_323f131e30.jpg)
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Are you aware that any vegetables you purchase from the USA have been treated with slice ? They use it for market gardening. Hope your not paying extra at the grocery store for "organic" from the USA. California also sprays it's strawberry crops with a form of nerve gas. The skin of oranges has been dyed to get that bright orange color and Apples are "waxed" to make them shiny. Apparently humans like colourful food and insist on it being bright colourful and shiny. Guess what ?? We've been eating chemicals for years.
.....just saying....... you conveniently forgot SLICE in the mix ;D you can add all the other information in with conveniently misrepresenting other foods. Award winning spin but most prefer facts without the garble.
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.....just saying....... you conveniently forgot SLICE in the mix ;D you can add all the other information in with conveniently misrepresenting other foods. Award winning spin but most prefer facts without the garble.
Conveniently forgot nothing. Slice isn't in the daily food. used minimally on fish being treated for lice. As for misrepresenting other foods perhaps you need to spend less time on farm fish and more time on the foods you actually eat. Nerve gas on Strawberries aired in a documentary just the other night. The rest is easily found on the internet using google. Try it you might learn something valuable. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) And I did give you the facts you just prefer to believe some hippy activist lost in the seventies
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.....just saying....... you conveniently forgot SLICE in the mix ;D you can add all the other information in with conveniently misrepresenting other foods. Award winning spin but most prefer facts without the garble.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/bromide100803.cfm ....................Read it and weep
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I would know what to do with the biology text book..... are you going to know what to do with a spin cast? Maybe I can include a lesson.
Considering that you been misinterpreting things lately I am not too sure. A lesson? I think I will go with a more experienced teacher on this one, but thanks nonetheless, AF.
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Another example of how the feedlots are like a giant mosquito......
"Serious salmon farming is coming to Nova Scotia. Wonderful news, you’ve surely heard. Lots of jobs. A few people are against it, of course, but this shouldn’t be a problem — just come-from-aways fretting about the views from their fancy properties.
If that’s how you understand it, think again.
Salmon farming has gone from being a good idea on a modest scale to a pernicious excess worldwide involving noxious chemicals, harm to wild fisheries, lavish taxpayer subsidies and unwholesome government/industry collusion.
What’s coming to Nova Scotia is what’s going awry elsewhere. The recent wipeout of salmon farms in Shelburne Harbour by infectious salmon anemia — after the entire industry in Chile was similarly wiped out — may have perked your attention. The fact that you, the taxpayer, will be paying to restore the operation should perk it even more.
Nova Scotia is late to salmon farming. Our bays are becoming available because of global warming. The fish in the first operations 35 years ago often froze. We have time, in other words, to do it right. Alas, the government, even as it prepares an aquaculture strategy, is giving little indication of that. Applications for cages have been rubber-stamped; regulations run over; a vast coalition of opponents from the commercial fishery, tourism, sports fishing and others wanting a moratorium on open-pen aquaculture until it’s all worked out can’t get the time of day from government, and so on.
Nova Scotia is the next phase of operations for Canada’s salmon farming multinational, Cooke Aquaculture, the largest in North America, which is finding things tricky in its main operations in New Brunswick. Ditto for Loch Duart, bursting out of Scotland, that wants to set up in Eastern Shore bays and inlets.
In New Brunswick, Cooke is up for trial on 72 counts of dumping illegal substances after a two-year investigation into dead lobsters by Environment Canada in the salmon farming areas of the Bay of Fundy. Cooke CEO Glenn Cooke and two other executives are named. Penalties are up to three years in jail or a $1-million fine per count or both.
Plus this, from recent hearings of the Senate fisheries committee in Ottawa. In 2010, the New Brunswick Fisheries Department OK’d the use of a powerful chemical called AlphaMax against sea lice in the salmon cages, after some cursory tests. Sea lice are a big problem, and they get progressively immune to the chemicals used against them. They’re also crustaceans, so poisons used against them will affect other shellfish. Suspicious agents from Environment Canada showed up, put dye in the chemical as it was being applied, and followed the plume as far as eight kilometres out, immersing caged lobsters in it as they went. The lobsters all died. A stop was put to its use.
Here’s the kicker. The Harper government is gutting the Fisheries Act and Environment Canada. In future, the committee heard, stopping such activities will be harder, maybe impossible.
There are other problems.
The caged salmon industry trades on the image of the leaping wild salmon. In fact, the nice pink you see on farmed salmon in the stores is food dye (“lucantin pink” from BASF chemicals or “carophyll pink” from Roche pharmaceuticals). In some cases, there are antibiotics and hormones. There was a bust-up in Britain this winter: cautions from health authorities, and a headline in the admittedly over-the-top Daily Mail that proclaimed “pink poison.”
Aquaculture was meant to supplement declining wild stocks of fish. Mostly it has. But in the case of farmed salmon, it takes four to seven kilograms of feed to make one kilogram of salmon. The feed is fishmeal from herring mackerel, anchovies, Arctic krill and others along the food chain. Thus, it’s far more destructive than helpful to the world’s fisheries. Plus, almost invariably, wherever fish farms appear, wild salmon stocks disappear. The St. Mary’s River and others of Eastern Nova Scotia are marked waters if Loch Duart gets its way.
Not least, salmon cages are extremely polluting. It’s like a sewer outfall wherever they establish — from excess feed and feces and sometimes heavy metals, like zinc and copper, from cage de-fouling agents.
And the promise of jobs is largely illusory. According to Susanna Fuller, co-ordinator of the marine divisions of the Ecology Action Centre, even within aquaculture, salmon farming is near the bottom as operations become more automated. She has produced an analysis on behalf of the “responsible aquaculture” coalition. It’s available on the EAC website under “marine.” It was created for the benefit of government. “They weren’t giving us any information, so we gave them some,” she says.
The coalition, which includes most of the commercial fishery, don’t want an end to salmon farming. They want it sustainable, an addition rather than a detriment to the wild fishery — an end, for example, to “open-pen” farming in favour of shore-based pens. The companies complain this is not economically feasible. A big mouthful for an industry which, says Fuller, has a 50 per cent rate of return and is stuffed silly with subsidies."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged (http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/95565-salmon-farming-an-industry-that-needs-to-be-caged)
Now where did I hear that THING ABOUT THE LOBSTER BEDS....... Oh YEAH! I posted the same thing before that was in the "NEWS"?,after listening to fisherman that I grew up with C'mon Golden Orbs, start flinging some insulting diatribe protecting Sidestep. And I was supposed to be embarrassed about asking Sidestep if he ever derived any income from feedlots, while you treat anyone who knows different is an ignoramus and beneath contempt. Boy, talk about making a fool out of ones self. ::) ::)
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http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/bromide100803.cfm ....................Read it and weep
So just saying..... that they use SLICE to take care of those nasty sea lice.........on occasion, these other guys use some things that .....on occasion .....take care of some other problems? But there is no comparison? Golden coiler award Annie Poo :'(
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Sidestep Stever: ;D ;D
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/460295283_323f131e30.jpg)
Looks like a picture of you falling to your knees while Dave B. steps by you. Seems like you have been doing a lot of falling down lately.
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Looks like a picture of you falling to your knees while Dave B. steps by you. Seems like you have been doing a lot of falling down lately.
Any time you want to play some rugby, let me know. My team needs a practice dummy and since you're apparently unemployed, we'd be pleased to pass around the hat after to help you out. I can give you a few bucks to mow my lawn and the wife will pay you a bit to scrub the toilet. It all adds up and we'll go through the larder and come with a few cans of beans and maybe some mac and cheese.
Enough about me Sidestep- How are you holding up being unemployed? Cheer up sunshine- Mary Kay sales aren't for everybody.Maybe you could try Amway or something else. I also think you'd make a great burger/ fries dude or sandwich artist as well with that charming personality.Dare to dream!
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So just saying..... that they use SLICE to take care of those nasty sea lice.........on occasion, these other guys use some things that .....on occasion .....take care of some other problems? But there is no comparison? Golden coiler award Annie Poo :'(
Difference is farmed salmon are starved for one month before they are harvested. Any antibiotic or slice is long gone from their system. Oranges are dyed so dye still present when you purchase, wax still present on apples, Vegetables and fruit are not starved so they contain whatever they have been sprayed with when you purchase them. I for one will never buy those pulpy, tasteless strawberries from California again .
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Pulpy and tastiest sounds like farmed salmon ...oh don't forget mushy
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"Oranges are dyed so dye still present when you purchase"
just saying......... that sounds like dem dirty fish yes no :-\
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Pulpy and tastiest sounds like farmed salmon ...oh don't forget mushy
I wonder if you have ever actually eaten one ?
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"Oranges are dyed so dye still present when you purchase"
just saying......... that sounds like dem dirty fish yes no :-\
NO :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Haven't eaten one never will I have seen other people eat it but I am not sure how they didn't puke it back up
PS never will eat one even if it is the last salmon on earth which may may be a possibility given the way things are going but if we are really lucky IHN may wipe them out before they wipe us out.
Don't mess with mother nature.
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Haven't eaten one never will I have seen other people eat it but I am not sure how they didn't puke it back up
PS never will eat one even if it is the last salmon on earth which may may be a possibility given the way things are going but if we are really lucky IHN may wipe them out before they wipe us out.
Don't mess with mother nature.
Wow....that is really undeniably an awesome response, take long to think that up, no wait you didnt think can you explain how a response like that is supposed to be taken seriously, come on now, think about it. ;D :D ;D
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Haven't eaten one never will I have seen other people eat it but I am not sure how they didn't puke it back up
PS never will eat one even if it is the last salmon on earth which may may be a possibility given the way things are going but if we are really lucky IHN may wipe them out before they wipe us out.
Don't mess with mother nature.
If you've never eaten one your hardly qualified to comment on their taste.
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Any time you want to play some rugby, let me know. My team needs a practice dummy and since you're apparently unemployed, we'd be pleased to pass around the hat after to help you out. I can give you a few bucks to mow my lawn and the wife will pay you a bit to scrub the toilet. It all adds up and we'll go through the larder and come with a few cans of beans and maybe some mac and cheese.
Enough about me Sidestep- How are you holding up being unemployed? Cheer up sunshine- Mary Kay sales aren't for everybody.Maybe you could try Amway or something else. I also think you'd make a great burger/ fries dude or sandwich artist as well with that charming personality.Dare to dream!
Wow there's an adolescent rant if I've ever seen one :D :D :D :D And it serves what purpose ? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I don't take you seriously either so we are even....
and as far as eating one that would mean I support this industry...
I have read almost every line of text and every link possible, In life you just get a gut feeling about something and as hard as I try I cannot find any reason to believe that farms are good in or for the ocean and even after asking the question of what good are they all that the PRO side has to offer is money and a hand full of jobs.
Growing up in Campbell River I knew many people that benefited from the Wild Salmon fishery and now it seems like a ghost town.
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I don't take you seriously either so we are even....
and as far as eating one that would mean I support this industry...
I have read almost every line of text and every link possible, In life you just get a gut feeling about something and as hard as I try I cannot find any reason to believe that farms are good in or for the ocean and even after asking the question of what good are they all that the PRO side has to offer is money and a hand full of jobs.
Growing up in Campbell River I knew many people that benefited from the Wild Salmon fishery and now it seems like a ghost town.
Yeah well I have lived there as well and I have been a commercial salmon fisher. The demise of the fishery had nothing to do with fish farms but everything to do with poor management, over fishing and an over capitalized salmon industry. If not for salmon farming with the mills gone it would be a ghost town.
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I don't know Morton , but can't believe she is doing her research for the money.
Maybe I should be donating to her cause, apparently our government uses our tax dollars to help the salmon farmers.
Some of the fish farm shareholders are already very wealthy.
Just consider John Fredriksen, reportedly among the top 100 most wealthy men in the world and the largest shareholder in Marine Harvest.
He has some pretty nice estates at various locations, shown by the link.
http://thenorway.wordpress.com/tag/john-fredriksen/
He is very successfull and has interests in oil tankers, drilling rigs, financial businesses, and reportedly one of his companies recently ordered a couple of natural gas tankers.
Amazing the wealth he has worked hard for and accumulated in his lifetime., a very smart man. Just look at his sandbox.
http://investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=16645&mn=3246&pt=msg&mid=11450492
I expect John Fredricksen has a very good overview of marine environments worldwide.
Some of his companies may have been involved in questionable business practices and settlements arranged, but he has expressed that farmed salmon should not be on wild salmon migration routes
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3304752/No-salmon-farms-near-wild-salmon.html
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What caused the death of the Wild Salmon has always have and always be greed.
Campbell River in the -40's and 50's tons of wild Salmon was really the only thing going on there
60's and 70's Hey we can make really good money from this Commercial Fishing thing
80's well we have netted up most of the wild population of fish what now?? lets build a huge hatchery and pump out millions of fish we could make good money again.
90's well pumping that many fish into the system was harder on the entire ecosystem than we thought public pressure and science took the number from millions of fish to a few hundred thousand just enough to make it barely sustainable we are not making any money.
2000 Hey we can make a lot of money if we just fill the ocean with fish but keep them all penned up so only we get the money.
2010 well all the penned up fish are a bigger problem than we thought public pressure and science are catching up to us again.
And from what I know Annie you are still a commercial fisherman you just sell a different product and your nets are in the water 24/7 3655 days of the year.
That would be the term I would use if someone asked me what selling fish for a living would be you just changed it to farming because commercial fishing was deemed bad buy the public and science.
Enjoy your money its all you have ever wanted from the Ocean.
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Hey Easy heres one for ya, in your estimation with all that you've read here who kills more wild salmon..a) Fish Farms or b) Sport Fishing
I dont think you'll like the answer.
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Silly question Bassonator I would say sports fishing does or at least I hope it does, sports fishing deaths are sustainable and would take hundreds of years to kill them all
Salmon farming has the chance/possibility of wiping out wild salmon in a few short years.
Which would you choose??
I hope you know the answer
And that's Mr EZ to you
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Im no scientist and like my Dad always said keep an open mind and I have and so far nothing anyone has said here especiallt Morton et al has conviced me that Farms are the threat that they are made out to be, I mean look at Dr Kibenge a one time Morton ally even he's distancing himself from this.
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Maybe he has a new employer funny how you see thing's depending on what side of the money you are on.
Greatest thing about science data is that two very intelligent well respected scientists could come to totally different conclusions depending on what they are paid to look for.
Science is a great money machine. Almost everything we do is based on it.
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Greatest thing about science data is that two very intelligent well respected scientists could come to totally different conclusions depending on what they are paid to look for.
Isn't that true.........
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two very intelligent well respected scientists
Well we can definitely count out the hippy on this one. ;D ;D ;D
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Wow, this one has degenerated into a straight up high school pissing match. I think I'm out now lol.
Just wondering, for the guys that refuse to ever eat a farmed salmon and never have yet. Do you eat strictly wild game? Pick your own wild vegetables? Avoid eating beef from the BC interior where salmon bearing rivers are pumped near dry in the summer to grow the hay to feed them in the winter on actual feedlots? Shoot your own grouse and never eat chickens that are grown on farms that may have, at some point in time had viruses present on them?
Just asking'. ;)
I've eaten farmed Atlantic (generally at sushi restaurants that don't offer a sockeye option). It's not my favourite, but it's better than pink, steelhead, and some white springs. Definitely worse than sockeye, red spring, some white springs and most coho. It's no mushier than some wild fish are.
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Yeah Im out to, Ill leave the morons to strut there stuff......Face it lads fish farms are here to stay and nothin you or the bitch of the north do is gonna stop it.
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Man you get to the truth and the machine breaks down
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I don't know Morton , but can't believe she is doing her research for the money.
Maybe I should be donating to her cause, apparently our government uses our tax dollars to help the salmon farmers.
Some of the fish farm shareholders are already very wealthy.
Just consider John Fredriksen, reportedly among the top 100 most wealthy men in the world and the largest shareholder in Marine Harvest.
He has some pretty nice estates at various locations, shown by the link.
http://thenorway.wordpress.com/tag/john-fredriksen/
He is very successfull and has interests in oil tankers, drilling rigs, financial businesses, and reportedly one of his companies recently ordered a couple of natural gas tankers.
Amazing the wealth he has worked hard for and accumulated in his lifetime., a very smart man. Just look at his sandbox.
http://investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=16645&mn=3246&pt=msg&mid=11450492
I expect John Fredricksen has a very good overview of marine environments worldwide.
Some of his companies may have been involved in questionable business practices and settlements arranged, but he has expressed that farmed salmon should not be on wild salmon migration routes
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3304752/No-salmon-farms-near-wild-salmon.html
Maybe Fredricksen will spend the time and money to establish more profitable land based closed containment salmon farms.